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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Although I think Trump's barmy edict and some of his other policies are potentially catastrophic, the reaction of the Guardianistas is hilarious:

    The British state reserves its pomp and pageantry for those with shared values. To do this for Trump is not simply appeasing, but legitimising his regime. This is not just embarrassing for the Queen but for every decent citizen. The vicar’s daughter may have lost her moral compass somewhere over the Atlantic, but this petition and the debate it prompts shows more than a million of us are clinging on to ours. It is not in the national interest to bend a knee to hate.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/30/petition-queen-uk-citizens-travel-ban-bend-knee-hate

    Let's see those shared values in action, shall we?

    12–15 June 1973 General Yakubu Gowon and Mrs. Gowon of Nigeria
    13–16 June 1978 President Nicolae Ceaușescu and Madame Ceausescu of Romania
    17–20 May 1994 President Mugabe of Zimbabwe
    19–22 October 1999 President Jiang Zemin and Mrs. Wang Yeping of China
    24–27 June 2003 President Vladimir Putin and Mrs. Lyudmila Putina of Russia

    Mobutu in 1973
    Hu Jintao in 2005
    Emperor Hirohito in 1971 isnt exactly an uncontroversial choice either!
    If you look at the BBC website the highest number of signatures come from Remoaner Labour seats in inner London, Bristol and Green Brighton areas which in the US also voted Hillary by a landslide. In areas like Wolverhampton and Walsall barely anyone has signed and that was peak Brexit territory and would have been peak Trump territory in the US
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38796357

    So our divided nation continues to be divided. Great. How is that helpful? There was absolutely no need to offer Trump a state visit.

    At some stage it was necessary, the Bushes, Reagan, Obama and Clinton had one

    Yes, after they had been on official visits and been in power for a couple of years.

    Obama and W Bush had one in their first term

    Yes, but they made official visits first. The state visits cam after a couple of years. Trump will not countenance an official visit. He wants the Queen. We had to give him what he wanted.

    I suspect he prefers Kate.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2725452/donald-trumps-queen-visit-set-to-be-awkward-thanks-to-duchess-of-cambridge-nude-pics-tweets/
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Sean_F said:

    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    Brian Cox ‏@ProfBrianCox 22 hrs22 hours ago

    A lot of people voted to leave the EU last year in good faith. Now the world has changed. Now we have a choice to make. Europe or Trump?

    And many others.

    Which is exactly the SNP pitch. Funny that...
    Yes and EU looks much more inviting than the butt licking UK
    Morning Malc - how much does Scotland export to the EU and how much to England.

    And surprised a Scotsman wants to be ruled by Brussels
    SNIP




    LOL, Yes lord and Master, we will do exactly as you command.
    SNIP
    SNIP
    SNIP
    Panel base today has it 54% still for No
    Decent starting point for Nicola.
    Nope exactly the same point as final 2014 polls
    Not the point I was making. Salmond started his indy campaign in the 20s or 30s as I recall – way below this level. He made up a huge amount of ground in the campaign. I suspect Nicola would take being four points short at the start of the campaign, given that.
    Winning over the rest will be much harder.
    4% is still a lot easier than 30%, and given the assistance of Westminster and their media goons it is not a big task.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Although I think Trump's barmy edict and some of his other policies are potentially catastrophic, the reaction of the Guardianistas is hilarious:

    The British state reserves its pomp and pageantry for those with shared values. To do this for Trump is not simply appeasing, but legitimising his regime. This is not just embarrassing for the Queen but for every decent citizen. The vicar’s daughter may have lost her moral compass somewhere over the Atlantic, but this petition and the debate it prompts shows more than a million of us are clinging on to ours. It is not in the national interest to bend a knee to hate.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/30/petition-queen-uk-citizens-travel-ban-bend-knee-hate

    Let's see those shared values in action, shall we?

    12–15 June 1973 General Yakubu Gowon and Mrs. Gowon of Nigeria
    13–16 June 1978 President Nicolae Ceaușescu and Madame Ceausescu of Romania
    17–20 May 1994 President Mugabe of Zimbabwe
    19–22 October 1999 President Jiang Zemin and Mrs. Wang Yeping of China
    24–27 June 2003 President Vladimir Putin and Mrs. Lyudmila Putina of Russia

    Mobutu in 1973
    Hu Jintao in 2005
    Emperor Hirohito in 1971 isnt exactly an uncontroversial choice either!
    If you look at the BBC website the highest number of signatures come from Remoaner Labour seats in inner London, Bristol and Green Brighton areas which in the US also voted Hillary by a landslide. In areas like Wolverhampton and Walsall barely anyone has signed and that was peak Brexit territory and would have been peak Trump territory in the US
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38796357

    So our divided nation continues to be divided. Great. How is that helpful? There was absolutely no need to offer Trump a state visit.

    At some stage it was necessary, the Bushes, Reagan, Obama and Clinton had one

    Yes, after they had been on official visits and been in power for a couple of years.

    Obama and W Bush had one in their first term

    Yes, but they made official visits first. The state visits cam after a couple of years. Trump will not countenance an official visit. He wants the Queen. We had to give him what he wanted.

    I am sure an official visit in 2017 and waiting on the naughty step until a full dinner with the Queen and carriage ride and 21 gun salute in 2018/19 would really tell Trump, yes!
  • Options
    Fake news or genuine manipulation of the Petition?

    https://twitter.com/AlanMotchell/status/826059334044024832
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,723

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Although I think Trump's barmy edict and some of his other policies are potentially catastrophic, the reaction of the Guardianistas is hilarious:

    The British state reserves its pomp and pageantry for those with shared values. To do this for Trump is not simply appeasing, but legitimising his regime. This is not just embarrassing for the Queen but for every decent citizen. The vicar’s daughter may have lost her moral compass somewhere over the Atlantic, but this petition and the debate it prompts shows more than a million of us are clinging on to ours. It is not in the national interest to bend a knee to hate.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/30/petition-queen-uk-citizens-travel-ban-bend-knee-hate

    Let's see those shared values in action, shall we?

    12–15 June 1973 General Yakubu Gowon and Mrs. Gowon of Nigeria
    13–16 June 1978 President Nicolae Ceaușescu and Madame Ceausescu of Romania
    17–20 May 1994 President Mugabe of Zimbabwe
    19–22 October 1999 President Jiang Zemin and Mrs. Wang Yeping of China
    24–27 June 2003 President Vladimir Putin and Mrs. Lyudmila Putina of Russia

    Mobutu in 1973
    Hu Jintao in 2005
    Emperor Hirohito in 1971 isnt exactly an uncontroversial choice either!
    If you look at the BBC website the highest number of signatures come from Remoaner Labour seats in inner London, Bristol and Green Brighton areas which in the US also voted Hillary by a landslide. In areas like Wolverhampton and Walsall barely anyone has signed and that was peak Brexit territory and would have been peak Trump territory in the US
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38796357

    So our divided nation continues to be divided. Great. How is that helpful? There was absolutely no need to offer Trump a state visit.

    At some stage it was necessary, the Bushes, Reagan, Obama and Clinton had one

    Yes, after they had been on official visits and been in power for a couple of years.

    Obama and W Bush had one in their first term

    Yes, but they made official visits first. The state visits cam after a couple of years. Trump will not countenance an official visit. He wants the Queen. We had to give him what he wanted.

    He'll meet Prince Charles and chat about AGW. What could possibly go wrong?
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    edited January 2017
    Jobabob said:

    We shouldn't be having state visits for anyone, least of all Trump. They are pathetic bowing and scraping. If there is business to be done, do it, have dinner, go home. Don't expect golden carriages and tea with Liz.

    I wonder if Theresa the Appeaser's blame-spreading, bum-kissing clusterfuck has reached the point of committing the ultimate sin for PB Tories, causing embarrassment to our own, dear Queen? Any moment now surely?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Remember this:

    "Bush visit set to paralyse London
    Itinerary details remain secret in record security operation as thousands plan street protests during first state visit by an American President
    London will be brought to a standstill in 10 days' time when the visit of US President George W. Bush will take place under the highest security ever reserved for a foreign head of state.
    A combination of last-minute road closures and a rally at Trafalgar Square by an estimated 100,000 anti-war protesters will paralyse the capital when Bush arrives on 19 November for a three-day stay in Britain. It will be the first ever state visit by an American President, who will be the guest of the Queen for the duration of his stay."

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/nov/09/london.georgebush

    A mate of mine who was a civvy with the Met was on duty for W's visit. He was kitted out with gas powered cutting equipment in case lefties managed to chain themselves to any of the vehicles in the motorcade.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Scott_P said:

    @SkyRhiannon: .@ActionAidUK which has Prince Charles as its patron,has told me the charity is signing the petition against state visit for President Trump


    Are charities allowed to have political positions?

  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    What I found really disturbing about this video is the vulture behaviour of those with camera phones crowding around the guy who was clearly knocked out / just coming round.

    Paul Joseph Watson
    The irony of anti-Trump rioters chanting "peaceful protest" after they'd just viciously attacked someone. https://t.co/2M8p1HuDjb
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,444
    TOPPING said:

    As a matter of interest, I've had quite strong pushback from constituents over the petition - a dozen or so emails from across the political spectrum saying hey, he's the President, we need to get on with him. Most have in common that they think the petition actually calls for him to be banned from coming - the nuances about state visits vs working visits have passed them by.

    I .

    One cou

    A state visit is an admission of weakness: Trump has an ego that has to be pandered to and it is only by pandering to him that we stand any chance of getting anything that we want. Other US presidents o f both parties - rational men who could see beyond themselves - were fine with official visits on their first trips over here. Trump wanted to meet the Queen and the other royals (except prince Charles) and we felt could not afford to turn him down, even though he has only been in office a week. And the rest of the world will note this and see we realise just how weak a spot we are in.

    The next four years will show how wise it was to meet and acknowledge the latest holder of the post of President of the United States. Not someone to piss off, whoever it is in that office. The State visit is the greatest diplomatic courtesy we can extend. As has been pointed out, when you look at the list of those this "honour" has been bestowed upon, Trump wouldn't make the top ten of most questionable recipients.

    Sorry, but talk of it being down to the inherent "weakness" of a post-Brexit UK is just so much bollocks.

    We are giving Trump an honour never before bestowed on a US president - an official state visit on his first trip over here, with the invitation made a week after he has taken office. That is weakness. Sorry.

    Rubbish. Get a grip.

    The EU apparatchiks intend to roger us good and hard over the Brexit negotiations. Trump's election is an opportunity, as well as a threat, and one which we are very well advised to make full use of. He likes Britain, has family roots here, supported Brexit when nobody else did, and he dislikes the EU - let's make use of that. Let's exploit it.

    If I were May I'd be using every possibly weapon in our arsenal to strengthen our hand in the negotiations to come. Creating fear of a strategic alternative for the UK is one such ruse.

    We need every card in our pocket there is.
    Jesus what a state we seem to be in.
    Even us Leavers never said Leaving would be easy.

    I stand by what i've always said: short-term worse off, medium-term little difference, long-term better off.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    We shouldn't be having state visits for anyone, least of all Trump. They are pathetic bowing and scraping. If there is business to be done, do it, have dinner, go home. Don't expect golden carriages and tea with Liz.

    I wonder if Theresa the Appeaser's blame-spreading, bum-kissing clusterfuck has reached the point of committing the ultimate sin for PB Tories, causing embarrassment to our own, dear Queen? Any moment now surely?
    You might be right...

    (Point of order: it's the embarrassing the Queen part of the petition that weakens it. How about embarrassing the country? Surely that is more important?)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    LOL:

    "Great Scottish Run half-marathon course found to be short"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-38798775

    ISTR a similar thing happened in ?Newcastle? a couple of years ago.

    You have to feel sorry for the runners: "I just did my first half marathon!"
    (a few months later)
    "No you didn't!"

    Especially the winner who thought she had broken the record.
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Scott_P said:

    @SkyRhiannon: .@ActionAidUK which has Prince Charles as its patron,has told me the charity is signing the petition against state visit for President Trump


    Are charities allowed to have political positions?

    I think it's what they spend their money on that matters. Signing a petition doesn't cost anything.
    Are corporate bodies like charities allowed to sign petitions? might be a more pertinent question.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    Brian Cox ‏@ProfBrianCox 22 hrs22 hours ago

    A lot of people voted to leave the EU last year in good faith. Now the world has changed. Now we have a choice to make. Europe or Trump?

    And many others.

    Which is exactly the SNP pitch. Funny that...
    Yes and EU looks much more inviting than the butt licking UK
    Morning Malc - how much does Scotland export to the EU and how much to England.

    And surprised a Scotsman wants to be ruled by Brussels
    SNIP




    LOL, Yes lord and Master, we will do exactly as you command.
    SNIP
    SNIP
    SNIP
    Panel base today has it 54% still for No
    Decent starting point for Nicola.
    Nope exactly the same point as final 2014 polls
    Not the point I was making. Salmond started his indy campaign in the 20s or 30s as I recall – way below this level. He made up a huge amount of ground in the campaign. I suspect Nicola would take being four points short at the start of the campaign, given that.
    Winning over the rest will be much harder.
    4% is still a lot easier than 30%, and given the assistance of Westminster and their media goons it is not a big task.
    I also think there is a lot more media sympathy for Scottish independence now. I could be wrong, but that is my sense.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    I am weary of hearing that Statue of Liberty poem, which in the interest of honesty should have a further stanza conceding that for a third of a millennium the majority of immigrants from the old world to North America could yearn all they liked to be free without ever escaping chattel slave status, and another noting that so much breathing space was on offer because the indigenous owners had been killed, infected, defrauded and herded into pitifully mean reservations to make way for the White Man.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,317
    edited January 2017

    Scott_P said:

    @SkyRhiannon: .@ActionAidUK which has Prince Charles as its patron,has told me the charity is signing the petition against state visit for President Trump


    Are charities allowed to have political positions?

    I think the Fabian Society and the Adam Smith Institute are both charities.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Donald J Trump
    I have made my decision on who I will nominate for The United States Supreme Court. It will be announced live on Tuesday at 8:00 P.M. (W.H.)
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    malcolmg said:

    LOL:

    "Great Scottish Run half-marathon course found to be short"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-38798775

    ISTR a similar thing happened in ?Newcastle? a couple of years ago.

    You have to feel sorry for the runners: "I just did my first half marathon!"
    (a few months later)
    "No you didn't!"

    Especially the winner who thought she had broken the record.
    Especially unforgivable now that it takes a minute to verify your findings on google maps. Of course it may be that it has always happened, and before google maps no one would find out about it.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    PlatoSaid said:

    Donald J Trump
    I have made my decision on who I will nominate for The United States Supreme Court. It will be announced live on Tuesday at 8:00 P.M. (W.H.)

    Betting opportunity? Is there a market up anywhere?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    edited January 2017
    Apparently the murderers at the Mosque were students at French language Universite Laval
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @aljwhite: it appears number 10 have dodged the blame for Trump's visit by ascribing the decision to a committee that doesn't exist. cunning
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2017

    May has gone over there, told him we'd like a deal (no heads of terms yet) and to behave on Putin, NATO and torture. He listened as well as Trump ever could. We offered a state visit in return.

    Um. That's it. Unless you think failing to tell him to go f*ck himself is a sell-out. Personally, I think diplomacy operates at slightly subtler levels.

    Did he say anything to her? Or does he recognise the born superiority of the British Tory bourgeoisie when he sees it? Would it even be possible for a British Tory minister to meet a foreign counterpart and the meeting involve anything other than the Brit telling the foreigner what's what?

    And perhaps, if the foreigner is a useful one, humouring them by offering a photo opportunity with the Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg woman in the knowledge that THAT, above everything, is what all foreign leaders need, so that they can know that they've really MADE IT in the world?

    The British government is in a position of abject humiliation. And it's cocky with it.

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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,845

    So we see that Trump's domestic immigration policy is the last hurrah of Remain.

    Scott's certainly whipping himself into Twitter frenzy today so something seems to be afoot...
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Scott_P said:

    @SkyRhiannon: .@ActionAidUK which has Prince Charles as its patron,has told me the charity is signing the petition against state visit for President Trump


    Are charities allowed to have political positions?

    I think the Fabian Society and the Adam Smith Institute are both charities.

    Fabian Society

    We are an unincorporated membership association (not a company or charity).


  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997

    Fake news or genuine manipulation of the Petition?

    https://twitter.com/AlanMotchell/status/826059334044024832

    There are about 8000 entries from outside the UK (i.e. about 0.4% of the total).

    I suspect these are mainly genuine entries or genuine mistakes on input. Serious manipulation would involve much bigger numbers and less obvious entries.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Scott_P said:

    @SkyRhiannon: .@ActionAidUK which has Prince Charles as its patron,has told me the charity is signing the petition against state visit for President Trump


    Are charities allowed to have political positions?

    Yes. How else can they lobby for their cause?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I wonder how many of the people keen on immediately honouring Donald Trump with a state visit were incandescent when Barack Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

    Not comparable.

    Nobel Prizes are supposed to reflect personal achievement.

    State Visits recognise the office someone holds.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Although I think Trump's barmy edict and some of his other policies are potentially catastrophic, the reaction of the Guardianistas is hilarious:

    The ours. It is not in the national interest to bend a knee to hate.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/30/petition-queen-uk-citizens-travel-ban-bend-knee-hate

    Let's see those shared values in action, shall we?

    12–15 June 1973 General Yakubu Gowon and Mrs. Gowon of Nigeria
    13–16 June 1978 President Nicolae Ceaușescu and Madame Ceausescu of Romania
    17–20 May 1994 President Mugabe of Zimbabwe
    19–22 October 1999 President Jiang Zemin and Mrs. Wang Yeping of China
    24–27 June 2003 President Vladimir Putin and Mrs. Lyudmila Putina of Russia

    Mobutu in 1973
    Hu Jintao in 2005
    Emperor Hirohito in 1971 isnt exactly an uncontroversial choice either!
    If you look at the BBC website the highest number of signatures come from Remoaner Labour seats in inner London, Bristol and Green Brighton areas which in the US also voted Hillary by a landslide. In areas like Wolverhampton and Walsall barely anyone has signed and that was peak Brexit territory and would have been peak Trump territory in the US
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38796357

    So our divided nation continues to be divided. Great. How is that helpful? There was absolutely no need to offer Trump a state visit.

    At some stage it was necessary, the Bushes, Reagan, Obama and Clinton had one

    Yes, after they had been on official visits and been in power for a couple of years.

    Obama and W Bush had one in their first term

    Yes, but they made official visits first. The state visits cam after a couple of years. Trump will not countenance an official visit. He wants the Queen. We had to give him what he wanted.

    I am sure an official visit in 2017 and waiting on the naughty step until a full dinner with the Queen and carriage ride and 21 gun salute in 2018/19 would really tell Trump, yes!

    Who cares what Trump thinks? What interests me is how prostrating ourselves at the feet of such a divisive figure a week into his presidency is seen in the rest of the world and what it does to our standing.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    Jobabob said:

    We shouldn't be having state visits for anyone, least of all Trump. They are pathetic bowing and scraping. If there is business to be done, do it, have dinner, go home. Don't expect golden carriages and tea with Liz.

    I wonder if Theresa the Appeaser's blame-spreading, bum-kissing clusterfuck has reached the point of committing the ultimate sin for PB Tories, causing embarrassment to our own, dear Queen? Any moment now surely?
    Given the Queen backed Brexit apparently I am sure she will get on well with Trump, a fellow Brexiteer, eco warrior Prince Charles maybe less so
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    edited January 2017
    The European Union spokesman just said on Sky News, regarding Trump's policy

    "We do not discriminate on the basis of nationality, race, religion, not only when it comes to asylum, but on any of our other policies"

    So non EU nationals can come and go, get a job etc just like EU Nationals?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    edited January 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    The only confusion going on today is in the minds of the lobby journalists' heads who seem to be looking for stuff that simply isn't there.

    It is the biggest source of fake news you can get.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Oops for Daily Beast

    Mark Dice
    Hey @JohnAvlon your paper published "names" of the Quebec City mosque shooters they found on a parody Reuters account! Bravo. #FakeNews

    No confirmation of names that I've seen so far - and conflicting reports of what happened inc that Ally Snack Bar was shouted/dispute between rival factions.
    John_M said:

    SeanT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sam Coates seems to be gleaming stuff from that No 10 press release that simply isn't there.

    The press release describes the process, note the last sentence is in the past tense - which indicates the process with respect to the President of the USA has already been completed.
    They are not 'blaming' anyone, Mr Coates is just seeking to sensationalise the whole business for twitter likes and whatnot.

    Coates is also a passionate Remainer. He hates what TMay is doing.

    Everything must now be seen through this prism.
    Quite. Faisal Islam is another who's lost his professional perspective. There are a number of journos who've made (in my view) the fatal mistake of wearing their political hearts on their Twitter sleeves. The result is simple; I've lost much of my trust in media reportage.
    I've unfollowed a dozen or more - their opinions are no more worthy than anyone else. They've lost their credibility clothes. A few get it - most don't even after calling everything wrong.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    This is how the Daily Mail is reporting the Quebec shooting:

    "Police arrest two students – one 'of Moroccan origin' - over the murder of six people shot dead in a Quebec City mosque carnage a day after Canadian PM condemned Trump immigration ban"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4170500/Five-dead-GUNMEN-open-fire-Mosque-Quebec-City.html#comments
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2017

    Scott_P said:

    @SkyRhiannon: .@ActionAidUK which has Prince Charles as its patron,has told me the charity is signing the petition against state visit for President Trump

    Are charities allowed to have political positions?
    Yes. How else can they lobby for their cause?
    But a charity is not allowed "to be used as a vehicle for the expression of the political views of any individual trustee or staff member".

    As ever in Britain, different rules apply whenever the "royal family" is involved.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    But that's exactly what I told myself about the Clarkson petition.

    Get a grip, it's a petition, and a bunch of lefties wetting themselves. The fact the incontinence is virulently infectious is neither here nor there.
    It's precisely the triviality of what is being asked for that makes the speed so interesting. The Brexit petition (which I also didn't sign) was at least for something purposeful.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Scott_P said:

    @SkyRhiannon: .@ActionAidUK which has Prince Charles as its patron,has told me the charity is signing the petition against state visit for President Trump

    So is a charity now a person who can sign petitions? Can they also vote in elections?
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Dromedary said:

    Scott_P said:

    @SkyRhiannon: .@ActionAidUK which has Prince Charles as its patron,has told me the charity is signing the petition against state visit for President Trump

    Are charities allowed to have political positions?
    Yes. How else can they lobby for their cause?
    But a charity is not allowed "to be used as a vehicle for the expression of the political views of any individual trustee or staff member".

    As ever in Britain, different rules apply whenever the "royal family" is involved.
    I doubt very much that Prince Charles was consulted.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    felix said:

    Scott_P said:

    @SkyRhiannon: .@ActionAidUK which has Prince Charles as its patron,has told me the charity is signing the petition against state visit for President Trump

    So is a charity now a person who can sign petitions? Can they also vote in elections?
    Don't forget, companies are people too ;)
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,711
    I see Trump is annoucing his SCOTUS tomorrow.

    Another never-ending round of twitter and media outcry for another 24 hours.

    Is this what life is like from now on?
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    What do you expect with the coverage it's getting,it's mentioned in every news broadcast - TV and radio.
  • Options
    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Sorry but the piteous whining by a few on here about Trump and the supposed disgrace of our country for talking to, and where appropriate, buttering up of, the (unfortunately) leader of the free world is more than flesh and blood can stand. Time for a bit of fresh air. Later all ;)
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    Reminds me of the surge towards Corbyn/joining Labour the last two summers
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited January 2017

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    Neither am I signing. I would much rather give him a hard time on arrival, and Mrs Foxy is wanting a pink knitted hat for the occasion.

    It is not just Remania though, in NW Leics (heavily for Leave, ex coal mining seat, former BNP councillors etc) over 1000 have signed.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    Reminds me of the surge towards Corbyn/joining Labour the last two summers
    It's very reminiscent of that. It is virtually independent of what it is nominally about.

    It's probably a reflection of the point made by Keiran Pedley in the thread header that no one is leading Remainers, so intense dissatisfaction is finding an outlet any way it can.
  • Options

    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    Reminds me of the surge towards Corbyn/joining Labour the last two summers
    It's very reminiscent of that. It is virtually independent of what it is nominally about.

    It's probably a reflection of the point made by Keiran Pedley in the thread header that no one is leading Remainers, so intense dissatisfaction is finding an outlet any way it can.
    Hasn't Tim Farron appointed himself to the role as Leader of the Remianers?

  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,845
    Scott_P said:
    Would like to see the letters Charles is sending to Her Majesty's government at the moment...
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,444
    Dromedary said:

    May has gone over there, told him we'd like a deal (no heads of terms yet) and to behave on Putin, NATO and torture. He listened as well as Trump ever could. We offered a state visit in return.

    Um. That's it. Unless you think failing to tell him to go f*ck himself is a sell-out. Personally, I think diplomacy operates at slightly subtler levels.

    Did he say anything to her? Or does he recognise the born superiority of the British Tory bourgeoisie when he sees it? Would it even be possible for a British Tory minister to meet a foreign counterpart and the meeting involve anything other than the Brit telling the foreigner what's what?

    And perhaps, if the foreigner is a useful one, humouring them by offering a photo opportunity with the Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg woman in the knowledge that THAT, above everything, is what all foreign leaders need, so that they can know that they've really MADE IT in the world?

    The British government is in a position of abject humiliation. And it's cocky with it.

    Yeah. Whatever.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,711

    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    Reminds me of the surge towards Corbyn/joining Labour the last two summers
    It's very reminiscent of that. It is virtually independent of what it is nominally about.

    It's probably a reflection of the point made by Keiran Pedley in the thread header that no one is leading Remainers, so intense dissatisfaction is finding an outlet any way it can.
    Hasn't Tim Farron appointed himself to the role as Leader of the Remianers?

    hahahahahahahaha...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    edited January 2017

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Although I think Trump's barmy edict and some of his other policies are potentially catastrophic, the reaction of the Guardianistas is hilarious:

    The ours. It is not in the national interest to bend a knee to hate.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/30/petition-queen-uk-citizens-travel-ban-bend-knee-hate

    Let's see those shared values in action, shall we?

    12–15 June 1973 General Yakubu Gowon and Mrs. Gowon of Nigeria
    13–16 June 1978 President Nicolae Ceaușescu and Madame Ceausescu of Romania
    17–20 May 1994 President Mugabe of Zimbabwe
    19–22 October 1999 President Jiang Zemin and Mrs. Wang Yeping of China
    24–27 June 2003 President Vladimir Putin and Mrs. Lyudmila Putina of Russia

    Mobutu in 1973
    Hu Jintao in 2005
    Emperor Hirohito in 1971 isnt exactly an uncontroversial choice either!
    If you look at the BBC website the highest number of signatures come from Remoaner Labour seats in inner London, Bristol and Green Brighton areas which in the US also voted Hillary by a

    So our divided nation continues to be divided. Great. How is that helpful? There was absolutely no need to offer Trump a state visit.

    At some stage it was necessary, the Bushes, Reagan, Obama and Clinton had one

    Yes, after they had been on official visits and been in power for a couple of years.

    Obama and W Bush had one in their first term

    Yes, but they made official visits first. The state visits cam after a couple of years. Trump will not countenance an official visit. He wants the Queen. We had to give him what he wanted.

    I am sure an official visit in 2017 and waiting on the naughty step until a full dinner with the Queen and carriage ride and 21 gun salute in 2018/19 would really tell Trump, yes!

    Who cares what Trump thinks? What interests me is how prostrating ourselves at the feet of such a divisive figure a week into his presidency is seen in the rest of the world and what it does to our standing.

    Blair prostrated himself to George W Bush far more and given UK voters have rejected the EU May is hardly going to stick 2 fingers up to the POTUS is she. Turnbull and Netanyahu have also prostrated themselves to Trump far more than May
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited January 2017
    GIN1138 said:



    Would like to see the letters Charles is sending to Her Majesty's government at the moment...

    Wouldn't you just :)
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Would like to see the letters Charles is sending to Her Majesty's government at the moment...
    I predict the guy will be a disaster has our head of state.
  • Options
    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2017

    I see Trump is annoucing his SCOTUS tomorrow.

    Another never-ending round of twitter and media outcry for another 24 hours.

    Is this what life is like from now on?

    The large-scale war that Bannon and Tillerson so clearly want will change the atmosphere somewhat.

    At the moment, SCOTUS consists of 5 Catholics and 3 Jews, with those groups accounting for 21% and 2% of the US population.

    My tip for the 9th position is William Pryor of Alabama, who has called Roe vs Wade "the worst abomination in the history of constitutional law".





  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    I see Trump is annoucing his SCOTUS tomorrow.

    Another never-ending round of twitter and media outcry for another 24 hours.

    Is this what life is like from now on?

    It's hilarious. The media has lost its mind - running around headless, RTing everything that confirms their personal prejudices/selectively edits quotes from Bannon - and Trump moves the goalposts in 140 characters or less.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    Neither am I signing. I would much rather give him a hard time on arrival, and Mrs Foxy is wanting a pink knitted hat for the occasion.

    It is not just Remania though, in NW Leics (heavily for Leave, ex coal mining seat, former BNP councillors etc) over 1000 have signed.
    Given a million signatures overall a 1000 in one seat is pretty average, all the top ten seats with most signatures voted Remain
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    Reminds me of the surge towards Corbyn/joining Labour the last two summers
    It's very reminiscent of that. It is virtually independent of what it is nominally about.

    It's probably a reflection of the point made by Keiran Pedley in the thread header that no one is leading Remainers, so intense dissatisfaction is finding an outlet any way it can.
    Hasn't Tim Farron appointed himself to the role as Leader of the Remianers?

    He has. Tim Farron is. No-one.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    isam said:

    The European Union spokesman just said on Sky News, regarding Trump's policy

    "We do not discriminate on the basis of nationality, race, religion, not only when it comes to asylum, but on any of our other policies"

    So non EU nationals can come and go, get a job etc just like EU Nationals?

    Are they banned from even applying for a visa on the basis of their nationality?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    edited January 2017
    Dromedary said:

    I see Trump is annoucing his SCOTUS tomorrow.

    Another never-ending round of twitter and media outcry for another 24 hours.

    Is this what life is like from now on?

    The large-scale war that Bannon and Tillerson so clearly want will change the atmosphere somewhat.

    At the moment, SCOTUS consists of 5 Catholics and 3 Jews, with those groups accounting for 21% and 2% of the US population.

    My tip for the 9th position is William Pryor of Alabama, who has called Roe vs Wade "the worst abomination in the history of constitutional law".
    Hardiman
    Pryor
    Sykes
    Gorsuch

    Seems to be the shortlist according to err 'Twitter'

    Or maybe Kethledge.

    Personally I hope he'll go for Ted Cruz :D

    I think we can rule out Obama.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    felix said:

    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    Reminds me of the surge towards Corbyn/joining Labour the last two summers
    It's very reminiscent of that. It is virtually independent of what it is nominally about.

    It's probably a reflection of the point made by Keiran Pedley in the thread header that no one is leading Remainers, so intense dissatisfaction is finding an outlet any way it can.
    Hasn't Tim Farron appointed himself to the role as Leader of the Remianers?

    He has. Tim Farron is. No-one.
    I'm very hard pushed to think of anyone less appealing as an authority figure than Farron.

    He looks like an old teenager, talks like a student union virgin and is terribly self-righteous rather than charming. He couldn't be farther from Paddy or Charlie.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    Neither am I signing. I would much rather give him a hard time on arrival, and Mrs Foxy is wanting a pink knitted hat for the occasion.

    It is not just Remania though, in NW Leics (heavily for Leave, ex coal mining seat, former BNP councillors etc) over 1000 have signed.
    Given a million signatures overall a 1000 in one seat is pretty average, all the top ten seats with most signatures voted Remain
    Now over 1100 in NW Leics. 1.25% of 95 thousand constituents in less than 48 hours, in the most WWC Leics seat.

    Trump is as popular in the UK as a turd in a swimming pool. I do hope he comes, the protests will be something to look forwards to.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    new thread

  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,444

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    Neither am I signing. I would much rather give him a hard time on arrival, and Mrs Foxy is wanting a pink knitted hat for the occasion.

    It is not just Remania though, in NW Leics (heavily for Leave, ex coal mining seat, former BNP councillors etc) over 1000 have signed.
    Given a million signatures overall a 1000 in one seat is pretty average, all the top ten seats with most signatures voted Remain
    Now over 1100 in NW Leics. 1.25% of 95 thousand constituents in less than 48 hours, in the most WWC Leics seat.

    Trump is as popular in the UK as a turd in a swimming pool. I do hope he comes, the protests will be something to look forwards to.
    Another way of looking at it: over 98% of voters haven't bothered to sign there, and over 90% in even the most Left wing seats.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    PlatoSaid said:

    felix said:

    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    Another 50,000 signatories to the petition in the last half hour. Even allowing for the fact that it's lunchtime, there seems to be no abatement yet in the flow.

    Dear God. You as well?

    Trump reduces the mental age of his enemies to about 7.

    To be fair, I remember doing exactly this, for about an hour, when the Clarkson petition started. I kept rechecking, and getting all excited, and thinking how scared they must be in the BBC, and Ooh look there's another 5000 in 2 minutes, bwahahahah, but then, on about the third time of checking, I took a hard look at myself and I cringed.

    You will cringe at yourself, when you look back.
    I'm not signing this petition. It is, however, fascinating to see how fast it is moving.
    Reminds me of the surge towards Corbyn/joining Labour the last two summers
    It's very reminiscent of that. It is virtually independent of what it is nominally about.

    It's probably a reflection of the point made by Keiran Pedley in the thread header that no one is leading Remainers, so intense dissatisfaction is finding an outlet any way it can.
    Hasn't Tim Farron appointed himself to the role as Leader of the Remianers?

    He has. Tim Farron is. No-one.
    I'm very hard pushed to think of anyone less appealing as an authority figure than Farron.

    He looks like an old teenager, talks like a student union virgin and is terribly self-righteous rather than charming. He couldn't be farther from Paddy or Charlie.
    Look at his interviews soon after the EU referendum result,the man is nearly crying with rage -funny.
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Here's a little something you won't find Jeremy Hunt smugly announcing in Parliament. Half of all 2nd year junior doctors are not continuing their specialty training in NHS. This was only 25% in 2011. Where are all these extra consultants going to come from Mr Hunt? The Europeans certainly don't want to come.

    http://www.foundationprogramme.nhs.uk/news/story/careers-destination-report-2016
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,496
    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    weejonnie said:

    SeanT said:

    CAVEAT EMPTOR

    THIS is being spread on Twitter

    Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s
    0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes


    HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.

    That is the problem - if you believe the MSM are totally honest only reporting facts then you dismiss it. If you distrust MSM because they seem habitually to be underestimating Islamic terrorism threats then you welcome it with open arms.

    On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
    I agree. And increasingly I mistrust the MSM to give us the facts about Islamic terror, unless it is gouged out of them, or they have no choice. This is especially true in places like Germany, where I know from close friends that the media has been TOLD to keep migrant crime/terror attacks out of the public eye as much as poss.

    Esteban Santiago springs to mind. Who knows who did this latest attack? Best to just wait and see
    Wait and see? WAIT AND SEE? What is this guff. PB (and the internet) lives off rapid, overhasty judgements, premature ejaculations, precocious misperceptions, and general minute by minute real time errors, howlers and miscalls. And the odd brilliant ahead-of-the-curve news prediction.

    It's what makes it fun. The alternative you suggest, sitting here in polite silence until the Mounties maybe give us the answer next Wednesday, is just too ridiculous for words.
    Your breathless frothing about human tragedy adds nothing to the site. Stick to your strengths.
    And if ever there was an expert on adding nothing to the site...
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,496

    SeanT said:

    By Gideon "Brexit made me cry" Rachman. Next.

    Cyclefree and rcs1000 seem to be having second thoughts. Are they good enough for you?
    If that's an open question, No.
This discussion has been closed.