Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
If that is true it would be a big moment for Canada.
Trudeau opening his arms to the World's refugees is populist but the reality is it took my son 15 months and volumes of paperwork to get the OK to leave New Zealand and join his wife in Canada.
Also UK residents need an ETA now which they didn't 12 months ago.
My view is the headline figure is meaningless, you need the DK figure in there as well.
Not a bad starting point for Sturgeon. Salmond was miles behind at the outset of Indy Ref 1 and came pretty damned close.
But that was with a big DK figure. Over the course of the referendum the Yes campaign converted DKs to Yes but had almost no effect on No's.
If there aren't DKs to convert IndyRef2 is dead in the water.
Doesn't recent polling suggest that there's a fair bit of churn with Noers going to Yes, while a similar number of Yessers have gone No? I'm not saying it would be easy, but I wouldn't see it as an impossible task to persuade people that have voted Yes previously to vote Yes again.
Oh dear. Perhaps you could beg OGH jnr to inflate your post count
It's all right.
I've decided to stick with the quality approach - I had forgotten the first rule of PB:
"The quality of posts from any poster is inversely proportional to their number".
Your first post is always your best - from then on, it's downhill all the way.
Stodge, I may not agree with all your politics, but your posts are amongst those I read from end to end. Please continue your rationally explained discourse, as you say quality, not quantity.
It's almost as if last Wednesday, Ed Miliband discovered the power of three shredded wheat for breakfast. What can it all mean? Seriously, have a group of Labour MPs really gone to him and said "Ed, come back - you're our only hope...."???
My view is the headline figure is meaningless, you need the DK figure in there as well.
Not a bad starting point for Sturgeon. Salmond was miles behind at the outset of Indy Ref 1 and came pretty damned close.
But that was with a big DK figure. Over the course of the referendum the Yes campaign converted DKs to Yes but had almost no effect on No's.
If there aren't DKs to convert IndyRef2 is dead in the water.
Doesn't recent polling suggest that there's a fair bit of churn with Noers going to Yes, while a similar number of Yessers have gone No? I'm not saying it would be easy, but I wouldn't see it as an impossible task to persuade people that have voted Yes previously to vote Yes again.
What's to prevent persuading people that have voted No previously to vote No again?
A lot of people voted to leave the EU last year in good faith. Now the world has changed. Now we have a choice to make. Europe or Trump?
And many others.
Which is exactly the SNP pitch. Funny that...
Yes and EU looks much more inviting than the butt licking UK
Morning Malc - how much does Scotland export to the EU and how much to England.
And surprised a Scotsman wants to be ruled by Brussels
Indeed. And this time the question shouldn't be the vague but loaded "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
Given that Brexit is being used explicitly by the SNP to roll the dice again, I would suggest:
"Should Scotland leave the United Kingdom in order to remain part of the EU?"
That would ensure that all the consequences as explicitly on the table - trade tariffs with England, border controls, joining Schengen, adoption of the Euro.
Remember that the wording has to be agreed and thus isn't just up to the SNP nor the Scottish Government. The UK Government is a player too with the Electoral Commission acting as referee. Last time Cameron pretty well rolled over and agreed to a wording referencing "independence" that clearly affected the outcome compared to more neutral alternatives that referred to leaving the UK.
Whether or not a new Scottish referendum referred to the EU, if there is to be a next time the bottom line for the UK government should be that the word "independence" should be no-where on the ballot paper.
Mr Salmond said reports Mr Trump was reluctant to meet Prince Charles during the visit were "an indication of the sort of enormous difficulties you get into when you hold somebody tight who is unpredictable, who has a range of views you find unacceptable."
It's almost as if last Wednesday, Ed Miliband discovered the power of three shredded wheat for breakfast. What can it all mean? Seriously, have a group of Labour MPs really gone to him and said "Ed, come back - you're our only hope...."???
Worth pointing out this is a cross-party move with clearly some Conservative support. It's perfectly right and proper for the Commons to discuss a measure which will impact on UK citizens and to seek clarification from the Home Secretary as to its extent and impact.
A lot of people voted to leave the EU last year in good faith. Now the world has changed. Now we have a choice to make. Europe or Trump?
And many others.
Which is exactly the SNP pitch. Funny that...
Yes and EU looks much more inviting than the butt licking UK
Morning Malc - how much does Scotland export to the EU and how much to England.
And surprised a Scotsman wants to be ruled by Brussels
Indeed. And this time the question shouldn't be the vague but loaded "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
Given that Brexit is being used explicitly by the SNP to roll the dice again, I would suggest:
"Should Scotland leave the United Kingdom in order to remain part of the EU?"
That would ensure that all the consequences as explicitly on the table - trade tariffs with England, border controls, joining Schengen, adoption of the Euro.
Remember that the wording has to be agreed and thus isn't just up to the SNP nor the Scottish Government. The UK Government is a player too with the Electoral Commission acting as referee. Last time Cameron pretty well rolled over and agreed to a wording referencing "independence" that clearly affected the outcome compared to more neutral alternatives that referred to leaving the UK.
Whether or not a new Scottish referendum referred to the EU, if there is to be a next time the bottom line for the UK government should be that the word "independence" should be no-where on the ballot paper.
PS. Or, dependent on the timing ""Should Scotland leave the United Kingdom in order to rejoin the EU?"
This looks as it is still developing. Reason for attack is not clear.
It is the weirdest story (and very sad, of course). I presumed it was neo-Nazis - Quebec has a few of those, and this mosque has been targeted before. And Muslims rarely attack Muslims in the West (though it's not unknown - Kurds v Arabs, "heretical" Muslim minorities etc)
But now the cops say one of the attackers shouted "Allahu Ahkbar"??
Maybe he did it facetiously, to taunt?
The cops have two of the suspects in cuffs, they know their names (one French surname, apparently), yet they have "no idea of the motive". Odd.
"In June last year the same mosque was the target of an Islamophobic incident when a pig's head was left in front of the building, with a card saying "bonne appetit"."
Yes - but being able to deliver a pig's head isn't exactly as hard as obtaining an AK47 (which is banned in Canada). That would suggest support from outside Canada...
The AK 47 is quite a striking detail.
Though they're banned in Canada, you can buy AK47s all over the USA.
canada should prob. build a wall or something
There would be a considerable irony if America had exported Muslim terrorism to Canada....
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
If that is true it would be a big moment for Canada.
Trudeau opening his arms to the World's refugees is populist but the reality is it took my son 15 months and volumes of paperwork to get the OK to leave New Zealand and join his wife in Canada.
Also UK residents need an ETA now which they didn't 12 months ago.
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
That is the problem - if you believe the MSM are totally honest only reporting facts then you dismiss it. If you distrust MSM because they seem habitually to be underestimating Islamic terrorism threats then you welcome it with open arms.
On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
PB is at its worst when there is an Islamic attack. Wait for the facts would be my advice – those who want a running commentary on the rumours can no doubt find it elsewhere.
Yep. Well said. Good for you. Very true
Twit.
This is a slightly more reputable source, but still rather iffy. Treat with skepticism.
"According to the Quebec newspaper, TVA Nouvelles, one of the suspects is believed to be 27-years-old and they are both from Quebec and of Arab region."
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
My view is the headline figure is meaningless, you need the DK figure in there as well.
Not a bad starting point for Sturgeon. Salmond was miles behind at the outset of Indy Ref 1 and came pretty damned close.
But that was with a big DK figure. Over the course of the referendum the Yes campaign converted DKs to Yes but had almost no effect on No's.
If there aren't DKs to convert IndyRef2 is dead in the water.
Doesn't recent polling suggest that there's a fair bit of churn with Noers going to Yes, while a similar number of Yessers have gone No? I'm not saying it would be easy, but I wouldn't see it as an impossible task to persuade people that have voted Yes previously to vote Yes again.
What's to prevent persuading people that have voted No previously to vote No again?
I've probably missed the devastating point your making, but nothing whatsoever (quality of persuaders apart).
Unionism's record of retaining its vote let alone increasing it isn't stellar. Which big, inclusive figure are you hoping will shore up the No vote?
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
If that is true it would be a big moment for Canada.
Trudeau opening his arms to the World's refugees is populist but the reality is it took my son 15 months and volumes of paperwork to get the OK to leave New Zealand and join his wife in Canada.
Also UK residents need an ETA now which they didn't 12 months ago.
Every Country is tightening it's borders
I can't bloody stand Trudeau.
He strikes me as the sort of politician who's a bit upset Canada is on the other side of the Atlantic, because he'd far rather join the EU.
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
If that is true it would be a big moment for Canada.
Trudeau opening his arms to the World's refugees is populist but the reality is it took my son 15 months and volumes of paperwork to get the OK to leave New Zealand and join his wife in Canada.
Also UK residents need an ETA now which they didn't 12 months ago.
Every Country is tightening it's borders
I can't bloody stand Trudeau.
He strikes me as the sort of politician who's a bit upset Canada is on the other side of the Atlantic, because he'd far rather join the EU.
So you dislike Trudeau because you think he'd join the EU if he could - but he can't. Weird.
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
That is the problem - if you believe the MSM are totally honest only reporting facts then you dismiss it. If you distrust MSM because they seem habitually to be underestimating Islamic terrorism threats then you welcome it with open arms.
On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
I agree. And increasingly I mistrust the MSM to give us the facts about Islamic terror, unless it is gouged out of them, or they have no choice. This is especially true in places like Germany, where I know from close friends that the media has been TOLD to keep migrant crime/terror attacks out of the public eye as much as poss.
Esteban Santiago springs to mind. Who knows who did this latest attack? Best to just wait and see
Which big, inclusive figure are you hoping will shore up the No vote?
Nicola.
She has turned off at least as many people as Eck
You really should market the ointment you've used to salve your Brexit butt hurt, miraculous stuff.
'Lastly and this will shock many but Scotland should now opt for independence. There I said it. The will of the Scottish people on the EU, a matter of the most crucial significance for the future, was clear. Hopefully it will be an amicable uncoupling. I would vote for YES in SINDY2, if still around. SINDY2 should take place within 18 months and a YES vote take effect on the date of BREXIT two years after Article 50 is enabled or before 2020 whichever is sooner.'
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
PB is at its worst when there is an Islamic attack. Wait for the facts would be my advice – those who want a running commentary on the rumours can no doubt find it elsewhere.
Yep. Well said. Good for you. Very true
Twit.
This is a slightly more reputable source, but still rather iffy. Treat with skepticism.
"According to the Quebec newspaper, TVA Nouvelles, one of the suspects is believed to be 27-years-old and they are both from Quebec and of Arab region."
I have a suspicion that if the attackers had been European their names would have been released by the Canadian authorities by now.
That said, I still don't see why Islamist attackers (if that is who it is, a big IF) would attack.... a mosque? And not even a "heretical" mosque at that? Could it be Shia/Sunni maybe?
All quite bizarre. Logic still favours neo-Nazis
ISIS are a big bloody threat to Shi'a in Iraq and Syria !
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
Maybe about 18 million.
I thought 17.4 million was the crucial amount!
You have to allow for the fact that many of the signatures will be fake or not eligible to vote...
PB is at its worst when there is an Islamic attack. Wait for the facts would be my advice – those who want a running commentary on the rumours can no doubt find it elsewhere.
Yep. Well said. Good for you. Very true
Twit.
This is a slightly more reputable source, but still rather iffy. Treat with skepticism.
"According to the Quebec newspaper, TVA Nouvelles, one of the suspects is believed to be 27-years-old and they are both from Quebec and of Arab region."
I have a suspicion that if the attackers had been European their names would have been released by the Canadian authorities by now.
That said, I still don't see why Islamist attackers (if that is who it is, a big IF) would attack.... a mosque? And not even a "heretical" mosque at that? Could it be Shia/Sunni maybe?
All quite bizarre. Logic still favours neo-Nazis
ISIS are a big bloody threat to Shi'a in Iraq and Syria !
My view is the headline figure is meaningless, you need the DK figure in there as well.
Not a bad starting point for Sturgeon. Salmond was miles behind at the outset of Indy Ref 1 and came pretty damned close.
But that was with a big DK figure. Over the course of the referendum the Yes campaign converted DKs to Yes but had almost no effect on No's.
If there aren't DKs to convert IndyRef2 is dead in the water.
Doesn't recent polling suggest that there's a fair bit of churn with Noers going to Yes, while a similar number of Yessers have gone No? I'm not saying it would be easy, but I wouldn't see it as an impossible task to persuade people that have voted Yes previously to vote Yes again.
What's to prevent persuading people that have voted No previously to vote No again?
I've probably missed the devastating point your making, but nothing whatsoever (quality of persuaders apart).
Unionism's record of retaining its vote let alone increasing it isn't stellar. Which big, inclusive figure are you hoping will shore up the No vote?
My point is that you can't have your cake and eat it. You can't claim churn AND that you will win back those that were lost, without taking into account that you could lose back those that were won.
A similar array of figures to those who ensured they won the last referendum would probably shore up the vote.
As I want Scottish MPs out of Westminster I'm not hoping for that.
PB is at its worst when there is an Islamic attack. Wait for the facts would be my advice – those who want a running commentary on the rumours can no doubt find it elsewhere.
Yep. Well said. Good for you. Very true
Twit.
This is a slightly more reputable source, but still rather iffy. Treat with skepticism.
"According to the Quebec newspaper, TVA Nouvelles, one of the suspects is believed to be 27-years-old and they are both from Quebec and of Arab region."
I have a suspicion that if the attackers had been European their names would have been released by the Canadian authorities by now.
That said, I still don't see why Islamist attackers (if that is who it is, a big IF) would attack.... a mosque? And not even a "heretical" mosque at that? Could it be Shia/Sunni maybe?
All quite bizarre. Logic still favours neo-Nazis
ISIS are a big bloody threat to Shi'a in Iraq and Syria !
We shall see anyway.
Muslims are killing Muslims everyday.
In Pakistan it's an everyday occurrence for Shias and Sunnis to attack each other.
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
If that is true it would be a big moment for Canada.
Trudeau opening his arms to the World's refugees is populist but the reality is it took my son 15 months and volumes of paperwork to get the OK to leave New Zealand and join his wife in Canada.
Also UK residents need an ETA now which they didn't 12 months ago.
Every Country is tightening it's borders
I can't bloody stand Trudeau.
He strikes me as the sort of politician who's a bit upset Canada is on the other side of the Atlantic, because he'd far rather join the EU.
So you dislike Trudeau because you think he'd join the EU if he could - but he can't. Weird.
I have many reasons that I dislike Trudeau.
His sanctimonious virtue signalling and moral grandstanding being another.
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
Maybe about 18 million.
I thought 17.4 million was the crucial amount!
You have to allow for the fact that many of the signatures will be fake or not eligible to vote...
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
Trump's policy (which he was elected on) is just one giant prod of the hitherto semi-dormant Remainer wasps's nest.
It's also a fantastic one to sign, and share that you've signed, on social media as it's a near perfect way to highlight how Not Racist you are.
Hamon is proposing a pact with Jean-Luc Mélenchon and Yannick Jadot.
Unlikely to happen, but makes sense. If their support in last night's poll is pooled, then it puts them on about 25% and right in the mix. Would be a very tight 4 horse race if it happened.
That is a very simplistic way of looking at it however and in reality there would probably be some Melenchon supporters who would baulk at voting for Hamon or vice versa.
My view is the headline figure is meaningless, you need the DK figure in there as well.
Not a bad starting point for Sturgeon. Salmond was miles behind at the outset of Indy Ref 1 and came pretty damned close.
But that was with a big DK figure. Over the course of the referendum the Yes campaign converted DKs to Yes but had almost no effect on No's.
If there aren't DKs to convert IndyRef2 is dead in the water.
Doesn't recent polling suggest that there's a fair bit of churn with Noers going to Yes, while a similar number of Yessers have gone No? I'm not saying it would be easy, but I wouldn't see it as an impossible task to persuade people that have voted Yes previously to vote Yes again.
What's to prevent persuading people that have voted No previously to vote No again?
I've probably missed the devastating point your making, but nothing whatsoever (quality of persuaders apart).
Unionism's record of retaining its vote let alone increasing it isn't stellar. Which big, inclusive figure are you hoping will shore up the No vote?
My point is that you can't have your cake and eat it. You can't claim churn AND that you will win back those that were lost, without taking into account that you could lose back those that were won.
A similar array of figures to those who ensured they won the last referendum would probably shore up the vote.
As I want Scottish MPs out of Westminster I'm not hoping for that.
You've unaccountably inserted the word 'will' into your account of what you think I said about possible Indy voting breakdowns. You probably should make more of an effort not to impose your own over-assertive style on others.
Which similar array of figures? Name some names for entertainment's sake.
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
That is the problem - if you believe the MSM are totally honest only reporting facts then you dismiss it. If you distrust MSM because they seem habitually to be underestimating Islamic terrorism threats then you welcome it with open arms.
On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
I agree. And increasingly I mistrust the MSM to give us the facts about Islamic terror, unless it is gouged out of them, or they have no choice. This is especially true in places like Germany, where I know from close friends that the media has been TOLD to keep migrant crime/terror attacks out of the public eye as much as poss.
Esteban Santiago springs to mind. Who knows who did this latest attack? Best to just wait and see
Wait and see? WAIT AND SEE? What is this guff. PB (and the internet) lives off rapid, overhasty judgements, premature ejaculations, precocious misperceptions, and general minute by minute real time errors, howlers and miscalls. And the odd brilliant ahead-of-the-curve news prediction.
It's what makes it fun. The alternative you suggest, sitting here in polite silence until the Mounties maybe give us the answer next Wednesday, is just too ridiculous for words.
I'm with Sean. I come here because it's an excellent, fast news resource. If I want slow, late sanitized news, I'd go to the BBC or Sky. Or The Mail if I want Doutzen Kroes in stockings.
PB is at its worst when there is an Islamic attack. Wait for the facts would be my advice – those who want a running commentary on the rumours can no doubt find it elsewhere.
Yep. Well said. Good for you. Very true
Twit.
This is a slightly more reputable source, but still rather iffy. Treat with skepticism.
"According to the Quebec newspaper, TVA Nouvelles, one of the suspects is believed to be 27-years-old and they are both from Quebec and of Arab region."
I have a suspicion that if the attackers had been European their names would have been released by the Canadian authorities by now.
That said, I still don't see why Islamist attackers (if that is who it is, a big IF) would attack.... a mosque? And not even a "heretical" mosque at that? Could it be Shia/Sunni maybe?
All quite bizarre. Logic still favours neo-Nazis
ISIS are a big bloody threat to Shi'a in Iraq and Syria !
We shall see anyway.
Muslims are killing Muslims everyday.
In Pakistan it's an everyday occurrence for Shias and Sunnis to attack each other.
When you read in that report "11 critically-wounded people were brought there, but died during treatment", you can understand why I decided to get on a BA flight from Islamabad whilst suffering kidney failure, rather than stay in Pakistan for treatment.....
PB is at its worst when there is an Islamic attack. Wait for the facts would be my advice – those who want a running commentary on the rumours can no doubt find it elsewhere.
Yep. Well said. Good for you. Very true
Twit.
This is a slightly more reputable source, but still rather iffy. Treat with skepticism.
"According to the Quebec newspaper, TVA Nouvelles, one of the suspects is believed to be 27-years-old and they are both from Quebec and of Arab region."
Or they could mean one is from an Arab country and the other from Quebec. There are probably a lot of hacks relying on Google translate from French-language reports in Quebec.
With "opponents" who sign a petition like that - a petition that explicitly says he should be allowed into Britain, and that upholds the British monarchy - does Donald Trump need any "friends"?
While we wait to find out who the attackers are and their motives, there are people dead, people mourning and people worried about the injured. This is horrible. Attacks on places of worship, wherever they come from, are particularly nasty.
In unrelated news, there is quite a lot of Tory leafleting here in Millom (part of the Copeland constituency) about Moorside and nuclear power and about how Corbyn is against it.
And completely unrelated to this, the weather has been gorgeous - if freezing. Snow on the tops and some gorgeous views.
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
That is the problem - if you believe the MSM are totally honest only reporting facts then you dismiss it. If you distrust MSM because they seem habitually to be underestimating Islamic terrorism threats then you welcome it with open arms.
On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
I agree. And increasingly I mistrust the MSM to give us the facts about Islamic terror, unless it is gouged out of them, or they have no choice. This is especially true in places like Germany, where I know from close friends that the media has been TOLD to keep migrant crime/terror attacks out of the public eye as much as poss.
Esteban Santiago springs to mind. Who knows who did this latest attack? Best to just wait and see
Wait and see? WAIT AND SEE? What is this guff. PB (and the internet) lives off rapid, overhasty judgements, premature ejaculations, precocious misperceptions, and general minute by minute real time errors, howlers and miscalls. And the odd brilliant ahead-of-the-curve news prediction.
It's what makes it fun. The alternative you suggest, sitting here in polite silence until the Mounties maybe give us the answer next Wednesday, is just too ridiculous for words.
I'm with Sean. I come here because it's an excellent, fast news resource. If I want slow, late sanitized news, I'd go to the BBC or Sky. Or The Mail if I want Doutzen Kroes in stockings.
Plus we occasionally get a contributor on-site at such events.
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
Trump's policy (which he was elected on) is just one giant prod of the hitherto semi-dormant Remainer wasps's nest.
It's also a fantastic one to sign, and share that you've signed, on social media as it's a near perfect way to highlight how Not Racist you are.
What has Trump done to earn a state visit when it took both Bush and Obama three years to get one? Are we really so needy that we have to invite a lying sexual predator, who has just appointed a white supremacist to the national security council, to receive full state honours only a week after he took office? What is wrong with an official visit - the ones US presidents normally get for their first trip over here?
That said, I still don't see why Islamist attackers (if that is who it is, a big IF) would attack.... a mosque? And not even a "heretical" mosque at that? Could it be Shia/Sunni maybe?
All quite bizarre. Logic still favours neo-Nazis
An ideal action for some: it contributes to taking things in the desired direction in both the US and France.
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
Trump's policy (which he was elected on) is just one giant prod of the hitherto semi-dormant Remainer wasps's nest.
It's also a fantastic one to sign, and share that you've signed, on social media as it's a near perfect way to highlight how Not Racist you are.
What has Trump done to earn a state visit when it took both Bush and Obama three years to get one.
The President of the United States invited the British Prime Minister over before any other foreign leader and put a former Prime Minister's bust back in the Oval Office.
The former President prevaricated on inviting over the Prime Minister and removed the bust.
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
Trump's policy (which he was elected on) is just one giant prod of the hitherto semi-dormant Remainer wasps's nest.
It's also a fantastic one to sign, and share that you've signed, on social media as it's a near perfect way to highlight how Not Racist you are.
What has Trump done to earn a state visit when it took both Bush and Obama three years to get one? Are we really so needy that we have to invite a lying sexual predator, who has just appointed a white supremacist to the national security council, to receive full state honours only a week after he took office? What is wrong with an official visit - the ones US presidents normally get for their first trip over here?
At the weekend, you commented that May was now tied in with Trump after the handholding photo. I thought she'd be ok, as long as she wasn't tied in with one of Trump's crazier schemes. I think we're at that point now.
At the weekend, you commented that May was now tied in with Trump after the handholding photo. I thought she'd be ok, as long as she wasn't tied in with one of Trump's crazier schemes. I think we're at that point now.
@seanjonesqc: May on EU: We can be as rude as we like because a trade deal is common sense. May on Trump: If we don’t fawn over him, there’ll be no deal.
A lot of people voted to leave the EU last year in good faith. Now the world has changed. Now we have a choice to make. Europe or Trump?
And many others.
A f**cking moronic argument. No surprise Scott'n'paste is repeating it.
Should a presenter so strongly tied with the BBC be making these political statements?
The problem I now have with the bleating Brexiteers is their determination to shut down the argument "the people have spoken, not listening" etc. The fact is that the advent of Trump changes a lot and over the next few months a lot more people will change their minds and that is what the hard right are afraid of. People have a perfect right to call out Brexit for the fiasco it is set to be.
Mr. Cicero, not sure why a buffoon in the White House means the UK should cede ever more sovereignty, without democratic assent, to a supra-national body nobody ever voted to join.
A lot of people voted to leave the EU last year in good faith. Now the world has changed. Now we have a choice to make. Europe or Trump?
And many others.
A f**cking moronic argument. No surprise Scott'n'paste is repeating it.
Should a presenter so strongly tied with the BBC be making these political statements?
The problem I now have with the bleating Brexiteers is their determination to shut down the argument "the people have spoken, not listening" etc. The fact is that the advent of Trump changes a lot and over the next few months a lot more people will change their minds and that is what the hard right are afraid of. People have a perfect right to call out Brexit for the fiasco it is set to be.
You hope. So far, as the header shows, there's no evidence.
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
That is the problem - if you believe the MSM are totally honest only reporting facts then you dismiss it. If you distrust MSM because they seem habitually to be underestimating Islamic terrorism threats then you welcome it with open arms.
On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
I agree. And increasingly I mistrust the MSM to give us the facts about Islamic terror, unless it is gouged out of them, or they have no choice. This is especially true in places like Germany, where I know from close friends that the media has been TOLD to keep migrant crime/terror attacks out of the public eye as much as poss.
Esteban Santiago springs to mind. Who knows who did this latest attack? Best to just wait and see
Wait and see? WAIT AND SEE? What is this guff. PB (and the internet) lives off rapid, overhasty judgements, premature ejaculations, precocious misperceptions, and general minute by minute real time errors, howlers and miscalls. And the odd brilliant ahead-of-the-curve news prediction.
It's what makes it fun. The alternative you suggest, sitting here in polite silence until the Mounties maybe give us the answer next Wednesday, is just too ridiculous for words.
I'm with Sean. I come here because it's an excellent, fast news resource. If I want slow, late sanitized news, I'd go to the BBC or Sky. Or The Mail if I want Doutzen Kroes in stockings.
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
That is the problem - if you believe the MSM are totally honest only reporting facts then you dismiss it. If you distrust MSM because they seem habitually to be underestimating Islamic terrorism threats then you welcome it with open arms.
On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
I agree. And increasingly I mistrust the MSM to give us the facts about Islamic terror, unless it is gouged out of them, or they have no choice. This is especially true in places like Germany, where I know from close friends that the media has been TOLD to keep migrant crime/terror attacks out of the public eye as much as poss.
Esteban Santiago springs to mind. Who knows who did this latest attack? Best to just wait and see
Wait and see? WAIT AND SEE? What is this guff. PB (and the internet) lives off rapid, overhasty judgements, premature ejaculations, precocious misperceptions, and general minute by minute real time errors, howlers and miscalls. And the odd brilliant ahead-of-the-curve news prediction.
It's what makes it fun. The alternative you suggest, sitting here in polite silence until the Mounties maybe give us the answer next Wednesday, is just too ridiculous for words.
Your breathless frothing about human tragedy adds nothing to the site. Stick to your strengths.
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
Trump's policy (which he was elected on) is just one giant prod of the hitherto semi-dormant Remainer wasps's nest.
It's also a fantastic one to sign, and share that you've signed, on social media as it's a near perfect way to highlight how Not Racist you are.
What has Trump done to earn a state visit when it took both Bush and Obama three years to get one? Are we really so needy that we have to invite a lying sexual predator, who has just appointed a white supremacist to the national security council, to receive full state honours only a week after he took office? What is wrong with an official visit - the ones US presidents normally get for their first trip over here?
Do we demand that foreign heads of government 'earn' a state visit? Or do we invite them in our national interest?
You don't like Trump; I get it. Neither do millions of others; I get that too.
Whilst I wouldn't have voted for him myself his election is also a strategic opportunity for the UK. It is not about "needy" - it is about acting in accordance with what is in our national interest.
We are inviting over the officeholder of the President of the United States. Just as we have invited the head of Russian state and the head of the Chinese state.
Both of which I personally dislike just as much, and I found the Chinese fawning (way before we voted to leave the EU, under Osborne) particularly embarrassing.
A lot of people voted to leave the EU last year in good faith. Now the world has changed. Now we have a choice to make. Europe or Trump?
And many others.
A f**cking moronic argument. No surprise Scott'n'paste is repeating it.
Should a presenter so strongly tied with the BBC be making these political statements?
The problem I now have with the bleating Brexiteers is their determination to shut down the argument "the people have spoken, not listening" etc. The fact is that the advent of Trump changes a lot and over the next few months a lot more people will change their minds and that is what the hard right are afraid of. People have a perfect right to call out Brexit for the fiasco it is set to be.
Those nasty Brexiteers shutting down the argument by pointing out the result of the referendum!
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
If that is true it would be a big moment for Canada.
Trudeau opening his arms to the World's refugees is populist but the reality is it took my son 15 months and volumes of paperwork to get the OK to leave New Zealand and join his wife in Canada.
Also UK residents need an ETA now which they didn't 12 months ago.
Every Country is tightening it's borders
I can't bloody stand Trudeau.
He strikes me as the sort of politician who's a bit upset Canada is on the other side of the Atlantic, because he'd far rather join the EU.
So you dislike Trudeau because you think he'd join the EU if he could - but he can't. Weird.
I have many reasons that I dislike Trudeau.
His sanctimonious virtue signalling and moral grandstanding being another.
Sorry, 'virtue signalling' (the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue) is one of those phrases that gets thrown around. Is it supposed to shut up people from saying anything that you consider to be 'good' because they might not really mean it? However, the Canada joining the EU one is by far the weirdest.
Whilst I wouldn't have voted for him myself his election is also a strategic opportunity for the UK. It is not about "needy" - it is about acting in accordance with what is in our national interest.
We need to be cool-headed about our own national interests first of all, and hitching ourselves so closely to the US - "lead the world togeher" - at the time when they are going through their own reevaluation of their role in the world limits our options severely.
@seanjonesqc: May on EU: We can be as rude as we like because a trade deal is common sense. May on Trump: If we don’t fawn over him, there’ll be no deal.
Inasmuch as that correctly characterises the PM's view, she's probably right. Of all major countries, the US is currently the only one where the ego of the leader is the key factor in that country's policy.
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
Trump's policy (which he was elected on) is just one giant prod of the hitherto semi-dormant Remainer wasps's nest.
It's also a fantastic one to sign, and share that you've signed, on social media as it's a near perfect way to highlight how Not Racist you are.
What has Trump done to earn a state visit when it took both Bush and Obama three years to get one? Are we really so needy that we have to invite a lying sexual predator, who has just appointed a white supremacist to the national security council, to receive full state honours only a week after he took office? What is wrong with an official visit - the ones US presidents normally get for their first trip over here?
Do we demand that foreign heads of government 'earn' a state visit? Or do we invite them in our national interest?
You don't like Trump; I get it. Neither do millions of others; I get that too.
Whilst I wouldn't have voted for him myself his election is also a strategic opportunity for the UK. It is not about "needy" - it is about acting in accordance with what is in our national interest.
We are inviting over the officeholder of the President of the United States. Just as we have invited the head of Russian state and the head of the Chinese state.
Both of which I personally dislike just as much, and I found the Chinese fawning (way before we voted to leave the EU, under Osborne) particularly embarrassing.
Why is a state visit and not an official one in our national interest? Trump is being honoured in a way that no other US president ever has been. We both know the answer. His ego demands a state visit. And we have to give him what he wants.
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
That is the problem - if you believe the MSM are totally honest only reporting facts then you dismiss it. If you distrust MSM because they seem habitually to be underestimating Islamic terrorism threats then you welcome it with open arms.
On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
I agree. And increasingly I mistrust the MSM to give us the facts about Islamic terror, unless it is gouged out of them, or they have no choice. This is especially true in places like Germany, where I know from close friends that the media has been TOLD to keep migrant crime/terror attacks out of the public eye as much as poss.
Esteban Santiago springs to mind. Who knows who did this latest attack? Best to just wait and see
Wait and see? WAIT AND SEE? What is this guff. PB (and the internet) lives off rapid, overhasty judgements, premature ejaculations, precocious misperceptions, and general minute by minute real time errors, howlers and miscalls. And the odd brilliant ahead-of-the-curve news prediction.
It's what makes it fun. The alternative you suggest, sitting here in polite silence until the Mounties maybe give us the answer next Wednesday, is just too ridiculous for words.
I'm with Sean. I come here because it's an excellent, fast news resource. If I want slow, late sanitized news, I'd go to the BBC or Sky. Or The Mail if I want Doutzen Kroes in stockings.
Especially when the mainstream media are DELIBERATELY slow to report some of these terror crimes. The tragic thing today is that if you want the best, quickest insight into what might be happening, you often have to go alt-right news sites and loonyland neoFash Twitter accounts.
The North American MSM is deeply in the bag for democrats / leftyism / identity politics generally. You simply won't get objective news on this sort of event from CNN/MSNBC/etc. I hear that the German news channels are even worse!
I think the 'fake news' thread is a natural development from dodgy statistics, dodgy bar charts, obfuscation, and sophistry used by all politicians today.
The public just want the truth to be told and are looking further afield to find that 'truth'.
Personally, I feel that May hit the right note in both Turkey and afterwards. Initially stating that American Immigration policy is a matter for Americans - true
Then after receiving a full briefing on the impact to British citizens saying that she doesn't agree with it all and getting the FO to obtain clarification resulting in dual citizenship British nationals being able to travel to the US.
I really can't see anything wrong with the approach or result.
Regarding the petition trying to ban a head of state from visiting, well I didn't realise there were so many snowflakes around
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
Trump's policy (which he was elected on) is just one giant prod of the hitherto semi-dormant Remainer wasps's nest.
It's also a fantastic one to sign, and share that you've signed, on social media as it's a near perfect way to highlight how Not Racist you are.
What has Trump done to earn a state visit when it took both Bush and Obama three years to get one.
The President of the United States invited the British Prime Minister over before any other foreign leader and put a former Prime Minister's bust back in the Oval Office.
The former President prevaricated on inviting over the Prime Minister and removed the bust.
Why is a state visit and not an official one in our national interest? Trump is being honoured in a way that no other US president ever has been. We both know the answer. His ego demands a state visit. And we have to give him what he wants.
What's the problem? If you can buy something useful with baubles, why not?
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
That is the problem - if you believe the MSM are totally honest only reporting facts then you dismiss it. If you distrust MSM because they seem habitually to be underestimating Islamic terrorism threats then you welcome it with open arms.
On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
I agree. And increasingly I mistrust the MSM to give us the facts about Islamic terror, unless it is gouged out of them, or they have no choice. This is especially true in places like Germany, where I know from close friends that the media has been TOLD to keep migrant crime/terror attacks out of the public eye as much as poss.
Esteban Santiago springs to mind. Who knows who did this latest attack? Best to just wait and see
Wait and see? WAIT AND SEE? What is this guff. PB (and the internet) lives off rapid, overhasty judgements, premature ejaculations, precocious misperceptions, and general minute by minute real time errors, howlers and miscalls. And the odd brilliant ahead-of-the-curve news prediction.
It's what makes it fun. The alternative you suggest, sitting here in polite silence until the Mounties maybe give us the answer next Wednesday, is just too ridiculous for words.
Your breathless frothing about human tragedy adds nothing to the site. Stick to your strengths.
Your London centric, sneering superiority gets on my tits, but I don't call on you to zip it. Have a bit of self awareness!
Looking at the e-petition map, there seems to be a strong correlation between marginal Con/Lab seats and a low level of support for the petition. Very safe Labour seats tend to have the highest level of support, (and the small number of Lab/LD marginals).
Completely O/T, but made me giggle. As this is a press release announcing a new product launch from a company that makes training devices for neonate critical care wards that is not the desired result...
At the touch of a button, Super Tory's respiratory system goes into acute distress and his entire body reacts. He cries, frowns and grows pale. There's no mistaking that Super Tory is very sick – and that every member of the team will need to work together to revive him.
Mr. Cicero, not sure why a buffoon in the White House means the UK should cede ever more sovereignty, without democratic assent, to a supra-national body nobody ever voted to join.
Clearly people did vote to join said supra-national institution back in 1975. It is almost certainly true that most of them were voting for the Common Market and not Ever-Closer Union, but nonetheless some people did try to warn them what was coming, and were ignored.
But setting aside that little piece of pedantry, I see where you are coming from and agree. Brexit is a permanent strategic decision about the direction of the country, Trump is a temporary office holder. The appearance of the latter does nothing to change the principles behind the former.
Comments
"Alex Salmond, the SNP's foreign affairs spokesman, said he thought the state visit was "a very bad idea".
Also appearing on Sky News' Sophy Ridge, he said: "You shouldn't be rushing into a headlong relationship with the President of the United States.""
No. You'd never do that Alex.
Given that Brexit is being used explicitly by the SNP to roll the dice again, I would suggest:
"Should Scotland leave the United Kingdom in order to remain part of the EU?"
That would ensure that all the consequences as explicitly on the table - trade tariffs with England, border controls, joining Schengen, adoption of the Euro.
Remember that the wording has to be agreed and thus isn't just up to the SNP nor the Scottish Government. The UK Government is a player too with the Electoral Commission acting as referee. Last time Cameron pretty well rolled over and agreed to a wording referencing "independence" that clearly affected the outcome compared to more neutral alternatives that referred to leaving the UK.
Whether or not a new Scottish referendum referred to the EU, if there is to be a next time the bottom line for the UK government should be that the word "independence" should be no-where on the ballot paper.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38788388?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central
Is he talking about Trump, or Charles?
Who else brings the delight of the Second Punic War, or offers intriguing F1 tips?
On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
Unionism's record of retaining its vote let alone increasing it isn't stellar. Which big, inclusive figure are you hoping will shore up the No vote?
He strikes me as the sort of politician who's a bit upset Canada is on the other side of the Atlantic, because he'd far rather join the EU.
She has turned off at least as many people as Eck
'Lastly and this will shock many but Scotland should now opt for independence. There I said it. The will of the Scottish people on the EU, a matter of the most crucial significance for the future, was clear. Hopefully it will be an amicable uncoupling. I would vote for YES in SINDY2, if still around.
SINDY2 should take place within 18 months and a YES vote take effect on the date of BREXIT two years after Article 50 is enabled or before 2020 whichever is sooner.'
'I agree '
We shall see anyway.
A similar array of figures to those who ensured they won the last referendum would probably shore up the vote.
As I want Scottish MPs out of Westminster I'm not hoping for that.
This was just a few days ago:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-38703375
His sanctimonious virtue signalling and moral grandstanding being another.
It's also a fantastic one to sign, and share that you've signed, on social media as it's a near perfect way to highlight how Not Racist you are.
That is a very simplistic way of looking at it however and in reality there would probably be some Melenchon supporters who would baulk at voting for Hamon or vice versa.
Which similar array of figures? Name some names for entertainment's sake.
In unrelated news, there is quite a lot of Tory leafleting here in Millom (part of the Copeland constituency) about Moorside and nuclear power and about how Corbyn is against it.
And completely unrelated to this, the weather has been gorgeous - if freezing. Snow on the tops and some gorgeous views.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Canada
Another Remoaner who wants to cancel Article 50.
https://twitter.com/PeterGrantMP/status/826008122951077888
The former President prevaricated on inviting over the Prime Minister and removed the bust.
Salute the pips not the man.
Apparently.
May on Trump: If we don’t fawn over him, there’ll be no deal.
Do people not realise it's raining until they hear the official announcement by the prime minister?
You don't like Trump; I get it. Neither do millions of others; I get that too.
Whilst I wouldn't have voted for him myself his election is also a strategic opportunity for the UK. It is not about "needy" - it is about acting in accordance with what is in our national interest.
We are inviting over the officeholder of the President of the United States. Just as we have invited the head of Russian state and the head of the Chinese state.
Both of which I personally dislike just as much, and I found the Chinese fawning (way before we voted to leave the EU, under Osborne) particularly embarrassing.
Is it supposed to shut up people from saying anything that you consider to be 'good' because they might not really mean it?
However, the Canada joining the EU one is by far the weirdest.
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2016/07/25-murders-and-massacres-one-common-link-drugs.html
The public just want the truth to be told and are looking further afield to find that 'truth'.
Personally, I feel that May hit the right note in both Turkey and afterwards. Initially stating that American Immigration policy is a matter for Americans - true
Then after receiving a full briefing on the impact to British citizens saying that she doesn't agree with it all and getting the FO to obtain clarification resulting in dual citizenship British nationals being able to travel to the US.
I really can't see anything wrong with the approach or result.
Regarding the petition trying to ban a head of state from visiting, well I didn't realise there were so many snowflakes around
At the touch of a button, Super Tory's respiratory system goes into acute distress and his entire body reacts. He cries, frowns and grows pale. There's no mistaking that Super Tory is very sick – and that every member of the team will need to work together to revive him.
But setting aside that little piece of pedantry, I see where you are coming from and agree. Brexit is a permanent strategic decision about the direction of the country, Trump is a temporary office holder. The appearance of the latter does nothing to change the principles behind the former.