The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
Trump's policy (which he was elected on) is just one giant prod of the hitherto semi-dormant Remainer wasps's nest.
It's also a fantastic one to sign, and share that you've signed, on social media as it's a near perfect way to highlight how Not Racist you are.
What has Trump done to earn a state visit when it took both Bush and Obama three years to get one.
The President of the United States invited the British Prime Minister over before any other foreign leader and put a former Prime Minister's bust back in the Oval Office.
The former President prevaricated on inviting over the Prime Minister and removed the bust.
Salute the pips not the man.
The Prime Minister is not the UK's head of state.
The Prime Minister is the UK's head of government and the power that determines the political actions of our Head of State. That is our Constitutional Monarchy settlement.
Why is a state visit and not an official one in our national interest? Trump is being honoured in a way that no other US president ever has been. We both know the answer. His ego demands a state visit. And we have to give him what he wants.
What's the problem? If you can buy something useful with baubles, why not?
Because what we will get is not worth the price. If an FTA with the UK is in the US's interests the US will pursue one whether Trump gets to meet the Queen or not. If it isn't, then we won't get one. Prostrating ourselves at the feet of such a divisive figure in such circumstances is not in our national interest.
A Canadian Liberal MP, Greg Fergus, former national director of the Liberal party, seems to be jumping with joy. His time has come! He pulled out his phone and tweeted as follows: "This is an act of terrorism -- the result of years of sermonizing Muslims. Words matter and hateful speeches have consequences!"
@seanjonesqc: May on EU: We can be as rude as we like because a trade deal is common sense. May on Trump: If we don’t fawn over him, there’ll be no deal.
Inasmuch as that correctly characterises the PM's view, she's probably right. Of all major countries, the US is currently the only one where the ego of the leader is the key factor in that country's policy.
North Korea? Sneaks in as a major geopolitically perhaps.
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
That is the problem - if you believe the MSM are totally honest only reporting facts then you dismiss it. If you distrust MSM because they seem habitually to be underestimating Islamic terrorism threats then you welcome it with open arms.
On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
I agree. And increasingly I mistrust the MSM to give us the facts about Islamic terror, unless it is gouged out of them, or they have no choice. This is especially true in places like Germany, where I know from close friends that the media has been TOLD to keep migrant crime/terror attacks out of the public eye as much as poss.
Esteban Santiago springs to mind. Who knows who did this latest attack? Best to just wait and see
Wait and see? WAIT AND SEE? What is this guff. PB (and the internet) lives off rapid, overhasty judgements, premature ejaculations, precocious misperceptions, and general minute by minute real time errors, howlers and miscalls. And the odd brilliant ahead-of-the-curve news prediction.
It's what makes it fun. The alternative you suggest, sitting here in polite silence until the Mounties maybe give us the answer next Wednesday, is just too ridiculous for words.
Your breathless frothing about human tragedy adds nothing to the site. Stick to your strengths.
Your London centric, sneering superiority gets on my tits, but I don't call on you to zip it. Have a bit of self awareness!
Because what we will get is not worth the price. If an FTA with the UK is in the US's interests the US will pursue one whether Trump gets to meet the Queen or not. If it isn't, then we won't get one. Prostrating ourselves at the feet of such a divisive figure in such circumstances is not in our national interest.
This is about the negotiation with the EU, not the US. Of course the government wishes to play the two off against each other. It's the most basic ruse in negotiation to pretend you've got an alternative. (It works even better if you have actually got an alternative, of course).
Why is a state visit and not an official one in our national interest? Trump is being honoured in a way that no other US president ever has been. We both know the answer. His ego demands a state visit. And we have to give him what he wants.
What's the problem? If you can buy something useful with baubles, why not?
Because what we will get is not worth the price. If an FTA with the UK is in the US's interests the US will pursue one whether Trump gets to meet the Queen or not. If it isn't, then we won't get one. Prostrating ourselves at the feet of such a divisive figure in such circumstances is not in our national interest.
Yes, that's the long and short of it. Fawning over this Grade A twat won't make a mite of difference to any deal we get – and indeed may weaken our position because we just look like sycophantic lapdogs.
A Canadian Liberal MP, Greg Fergus, former national director of the Liberal party, seems to be jumping with joy. His time has come! He pulled out his phone and tweeted as follows: "This is an act of terrorism -- the result of years of sermonizing Muslims. Words matter and hateful speeches have consequences!"
Not very clearly expressed - sermonizing typo for demonizing? Or does he mean people preaching to muslims or muslims preaching to people,or what?
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
That is the problem - if you believe the MSM are totally honest only reporting facts then you dismiss it. If you distrust MSM because they seem habitually to be underestimating Islamic terrorism threats then you welcome it with open arms.
On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
I agree. And increasingly I mistrust the MSM to give us the facts about Islamic terror, unless it is gouged out of them, or they have no choice. This is especially true in places like Germany, where I know from close friends that the media has been TOLD to keep migrant crime/terror attacks out of the public eye as much as poss.
Esteban Santiago springs to mind. Who knows who did this latest attack? Best to just wait and see
Wait and see? WAIT AND SEE? What is this guff. PB (and the internet) lives off rapid, overhasty judgements, premature ejaculations, precocious misperceptions, and general minute by minute real time errors, howlers and miscalls. And the odd brilliant ahead-of-the-curve news prediction.
It's what makes it fun. The alternative you suggest, sitting here in polite silence until the Mounties maybe give us the answer next Wednesday, is just too ridiculous for words.
I'm with Sean. I come here because it's an excellent, fast news resource. If I want slow, late sanitized news, I'd go to the BBC or Sky. Or The Mail if I want Doutzen Kroes in stockings.
Especially when the mainstream media are DELIBERATELY slow to report some of these terror crimes. The tragic thing today is that if you want the best, quickest insight into what might be happening, you often have to go alt-right news sites and loonyland neoFash Twitter accounts.
The North American MSM is deeply in the bag for democrats / leftyism / identity politics generally. You simply won't get objective news on this sort of event from CNN/MSNBC/etc. I hear that the German news channels are even worse!
Because what we will get is not worth the price. If an FTA with the UK is in the US's interests the US will pursue one whether Trump gets to meet the Queen or not. If it isn't, then we won't get one. Prostrating ourselves at the feet of such a divisive figure in such circumstances is not in our national interest.
This is about the negotiation with the EU, not the US. Of course the government wishes to play the two off against each other. It's the most basic ruse in negotiation to pretend you've got an alternative. (It works even better if you have actually got an alternative, of course).
I'm sure you posted similarly emphatic posts about the foolishness of revealing your hand. May tried to play the Trump card prematurely and look where it's landed her...
Because what we will get is not worth the price. If an FTA with the UK is in the US's interests the US will pursue one whether Trump gets to meet the Queen or not. If it isn't, then we won't get one. Prostrating ourselves at the feet of such a divisive figure in such circumstances is not in our national interest.
This is about the negotiation with the EU, not the US. Of course the government wishes to play the two off against each other. It's the most basic ruse in negotiation to pretend you've got an alternative. (It works even better if you have actually got an alternative, of course).
Given how basic it is, my guess is that the Germans, the French, the Italians and the Spanish may spot it, too. They will also understand the position the UK is in. Offering Trump a state visit a week into his presidency is a sign of weakness. We are fawning over a profoundly divisive figure because we have nowhere else to go.
A Canadian Liberal MP, Greg Fergus, former national director of the Liberal party, seems to be jumping with joy. His time has come! He pulled out his phone and tweeted as follows: "This is an act of terrorism -- the result of years of sermonizing Muslims. Words matter and hateful speeches have consequences!"
Not very clearly expressed - sermonizing typo for demonizing? Or does he mean people preaching to muslims or muslims preaching to people,or what?
Whoa! I was trolled! It is being spread out that he tweeted what I quoted, which I took to be blaming Muslim sermons, but in actual fact he didn't. What he actually tweeted was "demonizing". I unreservedly withdraw what I said about him.
Mr. Cicero, not sure why a buffoon in the White House means the UK should cede ever more sovereignty, without democratic assent, to a supra-national body nobody ever voted to join.
Clearly people did vote to join said supra-national institution back in 1975. It is almost certainly true that most of them were voting for the Common Market and not Ever-Closer Union, but nonetheless some people did try to warn them what was coming, and were ignored.
But setting aside that little piece of pedantry, I see where you are coming from and agree. Brexit is a permanent strategic decision about the direction of the country, Trump is a temporary office holder. The appearance of the latter does nothing to change the principles behind the former.
Yes -- what the Trump fans keep forgetting is that Trump beat not just Hillary but also all the mainstream Republican politicians. Trump's rise is a defeat for the right as well as for the left.
Yes -- what the Trump fans keep forgetting is that Trump beat not just Hillary but also all the mainstream Republican politicians. Trump's rise is a defeat for the right as well as for the left.
Not least a defeat for the Republican foreign policy establishment that Atlanticist Tories love to fawn over.
@seanjonesqc: May on EU: We can be as rude as we like because a trade deal is common sense. May on Trump: If we don’t fawn over him, there’ll be no deal.
Inasmuch as that correctly characterises the PM's view, she's probably right. Of all major countries, the US is currently the only one where the ego of the leader is the key factor in that country's policy.
Major democracies. But you are right, that is what the government is tying us to: a man whose decision making is driven by his ego. That, of course, makes him entirely unpredictable and untrustworthy.
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
Major democracies. But you are right, that is what the government is tying us to: a man whose decision making is driven by his ego. That, of course, makes him entirely unpredictable and untrustworthy.
This article posits that Trump is attempting a coup, which makes him a less than ideal partner, perhaps.
Benoit Hamon, France's answer to Jeremy Corbyn has been duly nominated as the Socialist candidate in the forthcoming Presidential Elections. Best priced to win at a whopping great 55 on the Betfair exchange ..... don't all rush at once!
Why on earth are Yvette Cooper and Ed Miliband going on about a 'ban on Muslims'? I thought the Guardian-reading classes were supposed to be fighting against fake news, not propagating it.
Yes -- what the Trump fans keep forgetting is that Trump beat not just Hillary but also all the mainstream Republican politicians. Trump's rise is a defeat for the right as well as for the left.
It's a defeat for the "establishment" and the narrow choice between two parties where nominees tack back towards the centre and forget everything they said during the primaries. People have twigged that voting for different parties wasn't producing much difference in government. If nothing else Trump breaks with a lot of the consensus that has existed is US politics for several decades.
Update-10:43PM CST: Syrian Refugees Bashir al-Taweed & Hassan Matti have killed 8 in Quebec City Mosque. Yelled "Allah Akbar" & used AK47s 0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
HOWEVER it is being spread by Trumpsters and alt-right accounts, and the only source seems to be "Canadian police radio", so treat with EXTREME caution.
That is the problem - if you believe the MSM are totally honest only reporting facts then you dismiss it. If you distrust MSM because they seem habitually to be underestimating Islamic terrorism threats then you welcome it with open arms.
On balance it seems that more terrorist attacks initially blamed on the far right turn out to be Islamic attacks than vice versa.
I agree. And increasingly I mistrust the MSM to give us the facts about Islamic terror, unless it is gouged out of them, or they have no choice. This is especially true in places like Germany, where I know from close friends that the media has been TOLD to keep migrant crime/terror attacks out of the public eye as much as poss.
Esteban Santiago springs to mind. Who knows who did this latest attack? Best to just wait and see
Wait and see? WAIT AND SEE? What is this guff. PB (and the internet) lives off rapid, overhasty judgements, premature ejaculations, precocious misperceptions, and general minute by minute real time errors, howlers and miscalls. And the odd brilliant ahead-of-the-curve news prediction.
It's what makes it fun. The alternative you suggest, sitting here in polite silence until the Mounties maybe give us the answer next Wednesday, is just too ridiculous for words.
Your breathless frothing about human tragedy adds nothing to the site. Stick to your strengths.
Your London centric, sneering superiority gets on my tits, but I don't call on you to zip it. Have a bit of self awareness!
Major democracies. But you are right, that is what the government is tying us to: a man whose decision making is driven by his ego. That, of course, makes him entirely unpredictable and untrustworthy.
This article posits that Trump is attempting a coup, which makes him a less than ideal partner, perhaps.
A Canadian Liberal MP, Greg Fergus, former national director of the Liberal party, seems to be jumping with joy. His time has come! He pulled out his phone and tweeted as follows: "This is an act of terrorism -- the result of years of sermonizing Muslims. Words matter and hateful speeches have consequences!"
Not very clearly expressed - sermonizing typo for demonizing? Or does he mean people preaching to muslims or muslims preaching to people,or what?
Whoa! I was trolled! It is being spread out that he tweeted what I quoted, which I took to be blaming Muslim sermons, but in actual fact he didn't. What he actually tweeted was "demonizing". I unreservedly withdraw what I said about him.
Why on earth are Yvette Cooper and Ed Miliband going on about a 'ban on Muslims'? I thought the Guardian-reading classes were supposed to be fighting against fake news, not propagating it.
Ruth Davidson too!
The M word causes many to take leave of their senses
Yes -- what the Trump fans keep forgetting is that Trump beat not just Hillary but also all the mainstream Republican politicians. Trump's rise is a defeat for the right as well as for the left.
It's a defeat for the "establishment" and the narrow choice between two parties where nominees tack back towards the centre and forget everything they said during the primaries. People have twigged that voting for different parties wasn't producing much difference in government. If nothing else Trump breaks with a lot of the consensus that has existed is US politics for several decades.
Yes, it's amazing who people will vote for if they think they will actually do what they say. I think it was Obama's biggest failing, promising a lot of things that didn't become true. Not all his fault of course, not having majorities in both houses severely limited his opportunities.
I remains to be seen if Trump can get anything through both houses, so far he's acted on edict.
A Canadian Liberal MP, Greg Fergus, former national director of the Liberal party, seems to be jumping with joy. His time has come! He pulled out his phone and tweeted as follows: "This is an act of terrorism -- the result of years of sermonizing Muslims. Words matter and hateful speeches have consequences!"
Not very clearly expressed - sermonizing typo for demonizing? Or does he mean people preaching to muslims or muslims preaching to people,or what?
Whoa! I was trolled! It is being spread out that he tweeted what I quoted, which I took to be blaming Muslim sermons, but in actual fact he didn't. What he actually tweeted was "demonizing". I unreservedly withdraw what I said about him.
Tory and Zac Goldsmith propagandist Sarah Sands - the woman who ran with his Sadiq Khan is a friend to terrorists line - has been appointed the new editor of the Today programme. Biased BBC.
Mr. P, if the US embassy here is contradicting the official line then that either needs to be set right in short order *or* a stronger statement needs to be made.
1.5m signatures. The same number of people that attended Trump's inauguration...
1.5 million people who either didn't bother to read what the petition actually says or who think Trump should be allowed to enter Britain and who have fawning respect for the British monarch.
Mr. P, if the US embassy here is contradicting the official line then that either needs to be set right in short order *or* a stronger statement needs to be made.
Boris making a statement in the House later. I wonder what line he will come out with
Mr. P, if the US embassy here is contradicting the official line then that either needs to be set right in short order *or* a stronger statement needs to be made.
I agree. At the moment I'm more in the 'cock up' camp rather than it being official policy
After the new president banned refugees and travelers from seven predominantly Muslim countries, Google, Facebook, Salesforce, Microsoft and others railed against the move, saying it violated the country’s principles and risked disrupting its engine of innovation. Trump’s next steps could strike even closer to home: His administration has drafted an executive order aimed at overhauling the work-visa programs technology companies depend on to hire tens of thousands of employees each year.
Mr. P, if the US embassy here is contradicting the official line then that either needs to be set right in short order *or* a stronger statement needs to be made.
Boris making a statement in the House later. I wonder what line he will come out with
"Cripes, this caper of backing Vote Leave to position myself against Cameron has gone a bit too far..."
I wish I was party to all the information people seem to have here today. Southam appears to be party to the details of the negotiation between the Trump team and the British Government and clearly has a much better handle on what is in the national interest than any of the cabinet or the civil service. As if that is not enough Topping clearly has access to the details of the side channel negotiations between the government and our EU partners and is clearly much better placed to know whether there was any mileage in freedom of movement vs the single market. We are truly blessed to have such insights into these closely held and confidential matters, long may it continue
There is a more sensible way forward on the Muslim ban- only allow in refugees who are women and children and elderly. Not young men.
Splitting up families and ensuring we miss out on economically productive young men is not a good idea.
Wasnt the experience in Germany that most of the young men from those parts of the world were in fact not economically productive ?
Edit:
And a grand total of 54 refugees have managed to find employment with the country's biggest 30 companies, according to a survey in June by the daily Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. Fifty of them are employed by Deutsche Post.
Exactly , you import the crime and fork out more benefits. A good idea might be for them to put some effort into our local non productive people having to get employment rather than paying them large benefits and importing more.
What do you think of the idea that freedom of movement could be retained for Scotland only, with passports stamped so that those concerned could only reside in Scotland?
Personally I am neither for or against immigration. I think it should eb as per Australian model, only let in if you have a job that cannot be filled locally. Locals should be forced to work if jobs are available or have all benefits removed.
I wish I was party to all the information people seem to have here today. Southam appears to be party to the details of the negotiation between the Trump team and the British Government and clearly has a much better handle on what is in the national interest than any of the cabinet or the civil service. As if that is not enough Topping clearly has access to the details of the side channel negotiations between the government and our EU partners and is clearly much better placed to know whether there was any mileage in freedom of movement vs the single market. We are truly blessed to have such insights into these closely held and confidential matters, long may it continue
Booooorrrrrinnnngggg.
We are all discussing likely scenarios. If you want to wait until 2019 when we will know for sure what the A50 negotiations look like then you could save yourself a whole bunch of bits & bytes.
If you are a British Duel National, does your UK passport state this?
No - certainly if you are British by birth you don't even have to tell the British authorities that you are a citizen of another country. But your British passport will state your birthplace.
When the British foreign secretary addresses the House of Commons today I'm wondering how many newspapers will mention that he is a US citizen.
After the new president banned refugees and travelers from seven predominantly Muslim countries, Google, Facebook, Salesforce, Microsoft and others railed against the move, saying it violated the country’s principles and risked disrupting its engine of innovation. Trump’s next steps could strike even closer to home: His administration has drafted an executive order aimed at overhauling the work-visa programs technology companies depend on to hire tens of thousands of employees each year.
How many engineers do Google, Facebook and Microsoft recruit from Somalia I wonder. Or possibly it has nothing to do with the "engine of innovation" and everything to do with the liberal principles of the companies and their founders. There is nothing wrong with that of course, but they should say so, and spare us the bullshit.
@SamCoatesTimes: Number 10 claiming they are not to blame for offering Trump a state visit. They are blaming the "state visit committee"...
@SamCoatesTimes: .. the Royal Visits Committee has a Number 10 private secretary on it - so No10 would be involved. Blaming FCO for May invite a brave tactic
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
After the new president banned refugees and travelers from seven predominantly Muslim countries, Google, Facebook, Salesforce, Microsoft and others railed against the move, saying it violated the country’s principles and risked disrupting its engine of innovation. Trump’s next steps could strike even closer to home: His administration has drafted an executive order aimed at overhauling the work-visa programs technology companies depend on to hire tens of thousands of employees each year.
How many engineers do Google, Facebook and Microsoft recruit from Somalia I wonder. Or possibly it has nothing to do with the "engine of innovation" and everything to do with the liberal principles of the companies and their founders. There is nothing wrong with that of course, but they should say so, and spare us the bullshit.
A lot of people voted to leave the EU last year in good faith. Now the world has changed. Now we have a choice to make. Europe or Trump?
And many others.
Which is exactly the SNP pitch. Funny that...
Yes and EU looks much more inviting than the butt licking UK
Morning Malc - how much does Scotland export to the EU and how much to England.
And surprised a Scotsman wants to be ruled by Brussels
Morning G, I have no clue , other countries seem to be able to export and import goods so I imagine we could manage it. Brussels would have much less control over us than the 90%+ that Westminster has so that can only be seen as a big gain in powers.
Mr. P, if the US embassy here is contradicting the official line then that either needs to be set right in short order *or* a stronger statement needs to be made.
Boris making a statement in the House later. I wonder what line he will come out with
I'm sure you'll find somebody else's 140 characters of thoughts that you can copy.
I wish I was party to all the information people seem to have here today. Southam appears to be party to the details of the negotiation between the Trump team and the British Government and clearly has a much better handle on what is in the national interest than any of the cabinet or the civil service. As if that is not enough Topping clearly has access to the details of the side channel negotiations between the government and our EU partners and is clearly much better placed to know whether there was any mileage in freedom of movement vs the single market. We are truly blessed to have such insights into these closely held and confidential matters, long may it continue
Booooorrrrrinnnngggg.
We are all discussing likely scenarios. If you want to wait until 2019 when we will know for sure what the A50 negotiations look like then you could save yourself a whole bunch of bits & bytes.
You were telling us quite forcefully that the government had thrown away the single market without even testing to see if there was room for manoeuvre on freedom of movement. On what basis, perhaps the conversation has happened and they were told to piss off, if we float various ideas now and they say no, why would they say yes later when the clock is running ?
If you are a British Duel National, does your UK passport state this?
No - certainly if you are British by birth you don't even have to tell the British authorities that you are a citizen of another country. But your British passport will state your birthplace.
When the British foreign secretary addresses the House of Commons today I'm wondering how many newspapers will mention that he is a US citizen.
Is he still? I thought he had renounced his US citizenship after he had a tax demand.
After the new president banned refugees and travelers from seven predominantly Muslim countries, Google, Facebook, Salesforce, Microsoft and others railed against the move, saying it violated the country’s principles and risked disrupting its engine of innovation. Trump’s next steps could strike even closer to home: His administration has drafted an executive order aimed at overhauling the work-visa programs technology companies depend on to hire tens of thousands of employees each year.
How many engineers do Google, Facebook and Microsoft recruit from Somalia I wonder. Or possibly it has nothing to do with the "engine of innovation" and everything to do with the liberal principles of the companies and their founders. There is nothing wrong with that of course, but they should say so, and spare us the bullshit.
Perhaps you should read the article.
The defunding of sanctuary cities will have an indirect impact too. Local authorities in the Bay Area won't have so much scope to offer tax incentives.
But I fear you are overestimating the ability of the SNP to continually blame Westminster. They have power over various areas, and inevitable mistakes made in those areas will become increasingly hard to blame on Westminster.
By this time next week the SNP administration could look in control and be worthy of the name of Scottish Government – or instead it could have been hammered by the UK government at Westminster, the opposition parties in Holyrood and the growing disenchantment of the Scottish public. Success or defeat will have been entirely due to the choices made by the First Minister and her closest ministers. If the choices were right then the SNP’s dream will have moved closer, but if they are wrong the SNP will have to face up to the reality that its strategy has failed and that it must develop a new one.
Major democracies. But you are right, that is what the government is tying us to: a man whose decision making is driven by his ego. That, of course, makes him entirely unpredictable and untrustworthy.
This article posits that Trump is attempting a coup, which makes him a less than ideal partner, perhaps.
May's words at the White House press conference look increasingly ill-judged.
lol. Have you read that guy's previous piece? He literally thinks Trump is following Hitler's playbook (but speeded up!) and that it's time for American Jews to think about fleeing (along with tens of millions of Latinos, Muslims &c). Seriously.
A nutter. You look like a berk for citing him.
I wonder. If you were a prosperous and optimistic Berlin Jew in the '30s, in which year would you have stopped deriding your more timorous mates for suggesting that Hitler was following Hitler's playbook, as it were?
London, Bristol and Brighton - and I bet Oxford and Cambridge aren't far behind.
And the forthcoming protests bring the issues of Trump, Brexit and May together in one convenient package. No wonder that Anti-England is on the warpath.
How many engineers do Google, Facebook and Microsoft recruit from Somalia I wonder. Or possibly it has nothing to do with the "engine of innovation" and everything to do with the liberal principles of the companies and their founders.
How liberal is the NSA? Or does liberal mean tax-avoidy?
A lot of people voted to leave the EU last year in good faith. Now the world has changed. Now we have a choice to make. Europe or Trump?
And many others.
Which is exactly the SNP pitch. Funny that...
Yes and EU looks much more inviting than the butt licking UK
Morning Malc - how much does Scotland export to the EU and how much to England.
And surprised a Scotsman wants to be ruled by Brussels
Indeed. And this time the question shouldn't be the vague but loaded "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
Given that Brexit is being used explicitly by the SNP to roll the dice again, I would suggest:
"Should Scotland leave the United Kingdom in order to remain part of the EU?"
That would ensure that all the consequences as explicitly on the table - trade tariffs with England, border controls, joining Schengen, adoption of the Euro.
Remember that the wording has to be agreed and thus isn't just up to the SNP nor the Scottish Government. The UK Government is a player too with the Electoral Commission acting as referee. Last time Cameron pretty well rolled over and agreed to a wording referencing "independence" that clearly affected the outcome compared to more neutral alternatives that referred to leaving the UK.
Whether or not a new Scottish referendum referred to the EU, if there is to be a next time the bottom line for the UK government should be that the word "independence" should be no-where on the ballot paper.
LOL, Yes lord and Master, we will do exactly as you command.
After the new president banned refugees and travelers from seven predominantly Muslim countries, Google, Facebook, Salesforce, Microsoft and others railed against the move, saying it violated the country’s principles and risked disrupting its engine of innovation. Trump’s next steps could strike even closer to home: His administration has drafted an executive order aimed at overhauling the work-visa programs technology companies depend on to hire tens of thousands of employees each year.
How many engineers do Google, Facebook and Microsoft recruit from Somalia I wonder. Or possibly it has nothing to do with the "engine of innovation" and everything to do with the liberal principles of the companies and their founders. There is nothing wrong with that of course, but they should say so, and spare us the bullshit.
Perhaps you should read the article.
I did. When those changes happen they can complain about them, but visa regulations like that need to be passed by congress, indeed it seems some of the measures are being sponsored by Democrats. But it's hardly a revolutionary idea that jobs should be offered to the locals first, thats a rule that exists in the vast majority of countries right now.
My experience of some of the subcontinent consultancies suggests that specialised staff is a little generous in many cases, bums on seats is often a more appropriate description
Mr Salmond said reports Mr Trump was reluctant to meet Prince Charles during the visit were "an indication of the sort of enormous difficulties you get into when you hold somebody tight who is unpredictable, who has a range of views you find unacceptable."
I wish I was party to all the information people seem to have here today. Southam appears to be party to the details of the negotiation between the Trump team and the British Government and clearly has a much better handle on what is in the national interest than any of the cabinet or the civil service. As if that is not enough Topping clearly has access to the details of the side channel negotiations between the government and our EU partners and is clearly much better placed to know whether there was any mileage in freedom of movement vs the single market. We are truly blessed to have such insights into these closely held and confidential matters, long may it continue
Booooorrrrrinnnngggg.
We are all discussing likely scenarios. If you want to wait until 2019 when we will know for sure what the A50 negotiations look like then you could save yourself a whole bunch of bits & bytes.
You were telling us quite forcefully that the government had thrown away the single market without even testing to see if there was room for manoeuvre on freedom of movement. On what basis, perhaps the conversation has happened and they were told to piss off, if we float various ideas now and they say no, why would they say yes later when the clock is running ?
Eh? Theresa May has ruled out freedom of movement. She has gone from no running commentary to an explicit submission on the matter of single market membership, the thing that arguably will cause the greatest furore ahead of our leaving.
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
The one million signature mark has been passed on the Trump petition. Quite impressive in less than 36 hours. At what number would the government have to rethink?
A lot of people voted to leave the EU last year in good faith. Now the world has changed. Now we have a choice to make. Europe or Trump?
And many others.
Which is exactly the SNP pitch. Funny that...
Yes and EU looks much more inviting than the butt licking UK
Morning Malc - how much does Scotland export to the EU and how much to England.
And surprised a Scotsman wants to be ruled by Brussels
Indeed. And this time the question shouldn't be the vague but loaded "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
Given that Brexit is being used explicitly by the SNP to roll the dice again, I would suggest:
"Should Scotland leave the United Kingdom in order to remain part of the EU?"
That would ensure that all the consequences as explicitly on the table - trade tariffs with England, border controls, joining Schengen, adoption of the Euro.
Remember that the wording has to be agreed and thus isn't just up to the SNP nor the Scottish Government. The UK Government is a player too with the Electoral Commission acting as referee. Last time Cameron pretty well rolled over and agreed to a wording referencing "independence" that clearly affected the outcome compared to more neutral alternatives that referred to leaving the UK.
Whether or not a new Scottish referendum referred to the EU, if there is to be a next time the bottom line for the UK government should be that the word "independence" should be no-where on the ballot paper.
LOL, Yes lord and Master, we will do exactly as you command.
LOL. Those would be the very same trade tariffs and border controls that the Government assures us will NOT apply to Ireland. The fundamental weakness in the proposition – why would border patrol boats be needed on the Tweed but not on the Foyle?
If you are a British Duel National, does your UK passport state this?
No - certainly if you are British by birth you don't even have to tell the British authorities that you are a citizen of another country. But your British passport will state your birthplace.
When the British foreign secretary addresses the House of Commons today I'm wondering how many newspapers will mention that he is a US citizen.
Is he still? I thought he had renounced his US citizenship after he had a tax demand.
And the forthcoming protests bring the issues of Trump, Brexit and May together in one convenient package. No wonder that Anti-England is on the warpath.
People are seizing on Trump as yet another way of blocking Brexit, on some sort of "it's too risky right now" basis. When that fails they'll find something else, and as the end date approaches of us actually leaving the EU I would imagine there will be increasingly desperate arguments made against it.
Major democracies. But you are right, that is what the government is tying us to: a man whose decision making is driven by his ego. That, of course, makes him entirely unpredictable and untrustworthy.
This article posits that Trump is attempting a coup, which makes him a less than ideal partner, perhaps.
May's words at the White House press conference look increasingly ill-judged.
lol. Have you read that guy's previous piece? He literally thinks Trump is following Hitler's playbook (but speeded up!) and that it's time for American Jews to think about fleeing (along with tens of millions of Latinos, Muslims &c). Seriously.
A nutter. You look like a berk for citing him.
I wonder. If you were a prosperous and optimistic Berlin Jew in the '30s, in which year would you have stopped deriding your more timorous mates for suggesting that Hitler was following Hitler's playbook, as it were?
It's a fair question, but still... for all his lunacies, do you really think Donald Trump is Hitler? Now, or potentially?
No, neither do I.
The worst he could possibly be is Putin, but even that is highly highly unlikely - I can't see him annexing Newfoundland. He's Berlusconi with nukes, with a dash of Henry Ford. Which is maybe quite scary enough.
Incidentally, this guy who advises Jews to flee America, where does he have in mind, as being safer and better for Jews, than America?
I have no idea why some PBers are obsessed with where the signatures are coming from. If the proposition is more popular in N1 than Doncaster, so what?
I wish I was party to all the information people seem to have here today. Southam appears to be party to the details of the negotiation between the Trump team and the British Government and clearly has a much better handle on what is in the national interest than any of the cabinet or the civil service. As if that is not enough Topping clearly has access to the details of the side channel negotiations between the government and our EU partners and is clearly much better placed to know whether there was any mileage in freedom of movement vs the single market. We are truly blessed to have such insights into these closely held and confidential matters, long may it continue
Booooorrrrrinnnngggg.
We are all discussing likely scenarios. If you want to wait until 2019 when we will know for sure what the A50 negotiations look like then you could save yourself a whole bunch of bits & bytes.
You were telling us quite forcefully that the government had thrown away the single market without even testing to see if there was room for manoeuvre on freedom of movement. On what basis, perhaps the conversation has happened and they were told to piss off, if we float various ideas now and they say no, why would they say yes later when the clock is running ?
Eh? Theresa May has ruled out freedom of movement. She has gone from no running commentary to an explicit submission on the matter of single market membership, the thing that arguably will cause the greatest furore ahead of our leaving.
Absolutely. It has been suggested that this is because the side channel conversations have told her there is no way to keep Freedom of Movement and stay in the single market, and yet you told us down thread that she was throwing away the single market without having tested this assumption. So I repeat, what basis do you have for knowing that it hasnt been tested ?
And the forthcoming protests bring the issues of Trump, Brexit and May together in one convenient package. No wonder that Anti-England is on the warpath.
People are seizing on Trump as yet another way of blocking Brexit, on some sort of "it's too risky right now" basis. When that fails they'll find something else, and as the end date approaches of us actually leaving the EU I would imagine there will be increasingly desperate arguments made against it.
It's not just anti-England,it's anti-NATO which will be finished if we carry on like this.
A lot of people voted to leave the EU last year in good faith. Now the world has changed. Now we have a choice to make. Europe or Trump?
And many others.
Which is exactly the SNP pitch. Funny that...
Yes and EU looks much more inviting than the butt licking UK
Morning Malc - how much does Scotland export to the EU and how much to England.
And surprised a Scotsman wants to be ruled by Brussels
Morning G, I have no clue , other countries seem to be able to export and import goods so I imagine we could manage it. Brussels would have much less control over us than the 90%+ that Westminster has so that can only be seen as a big gain in powers.
If Scotland becomes independent and joins the EU and rUK leaves the EU and the single market, Scotland will not be allowed to conduct free trade across the border with England, because the EU will not allow it.
Similarly it will not be allowed to permit free movement into Scotland from England, Wales, or Northern Ireland.
There are rules governing external EU borders with countries that are outside the single market. Club members have to obey club rules.
So the SNP plan would mean customs posts on the border. Since Scotland would not allow free movement from rUK, you can expect rUK not to allow free movement from Scotland either. (RUK would be independent from Scotland. You would find out what a London government that ignores Scottish interests really looks like.)
About 65% of Scotland's exports, not counting oil and gas, go to rUK.
It is also likely that many people from Romania, Bulgaria, the Baltic states and elsewhere in the EU would come to Scotland to try to get from there to cities such as London and Manchester.
@SamCoatesTimes: By distancing themselves from the state visit decision, & pointing at FCO, No10 implicitly saying visit not great idea. Palace furious?
And the forthcoming protests bring the issues of Trump, Brexit and May together in one convenient package. No wonder that Anti-England is on the warpath.
People are seizing on Trump as yet another way of blocking Brexit, on some sort of "it's too risky right now" basis. When that fails they'll find something else, and as the end date approaches of us actually leaving the EU I would imagine there will be increasingly desperate arguments made against it.
It all sounds pretty desparate now, any more desparate and its going to be moving into "embarrassing" and eventually into "cringeworthy"
Comments
https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/826023343925108736
Lucky we haven't created any obstacles to car manufacturing recently. Oh, wait...
http://www.snopes.com/mike-pence-muslim-ban-offensive/
https://twitter.com/GregFergus/status/825928888207421440
He's right though
https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.vfcsw2qcn
Best priced to win at a whopping great 55 on the Betfair exchange ..... don't all rush at once!
The M word causes many to take leave of their senses
I remains to be seen if Trump can get anything through both houses, so far he's acted on edict.
Both of you are building on assumptions and hearsay and gossip and supposition.
https://twitter.com/johnharris1969/status/826006146905415680
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-30/trump-s-next-move-on-immigration-to-hit-closer-to-home-for-tech
After the new president banned refugees and travelers from seven predominantly Muslim countries, Google, Facebook, Salesforce, Microsoft and others railed against the move, saying it violated the country’s principles and risked disrupting its engine of innovation. Trump’s next steps could strike even closer to home: His administration has drafted an executive order aimed at overhauling the work-visa programs technology companies depend on to hire tens of thousands of employees each year.
We are all discussing likely scenarios. If you want to wait until 2019 when we will know for sure what the A50 negotiations look like then you could save yourself a whole bunch of bits & bytes.
When the British foreign secretary addresses the House of Commons today I'm wondering how many newspapers will mention that he is a US citizen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmpJViVTVNs
@SamCoatesTimes: .. the Royal Visits Committee has a Number 10 private secretary on it - so No10 would be involved. Blaming FCO for May invite a brave tactic
No 10 knows this is a disaster.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-tax-day-protest-marches-on-Twitter-5405393.php
London, Bristol and Brighton - and I bet Oxford and Cambridge aren't far behind.
And the forthcoming protests bring the issues of Trump, Brexit and May together in one convenient package. No wonder that Anti-England is on the warpath.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/826034899987660800
My experience of some of the subcontinent consultancies suggests that specialised staff is a little generous in many cases, bums on seats is often a more appropriate description
Splendid homophone call.
https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/826035783073144832
http://heatst.com/world/boris-johnson-remains-an-american-citizen/
Similarly it will not be allowed to permit free movement into Scotland from England, Wales, or Northern Ireland.
There are rules governing external EU borders with countries that are outside the single market. Club members have to obey club rules.
So the SNP plan would mean customs posts on the border. Since Scotland would not allow free movement from rUK, you can expect rUK not to allow free movement from Scotland either. (RUK would be independent from Scotland. You would find out what a London government that ignores Scottish interests really looks like.)
About 65% of Scotland's exports, not counting oil and gas, go to rUK.
It is also likely that many people from Romania, Bulgaria, the Baltic states and elsewhere in the EU would come to Scotland to try to get from there to cities such as London and Manchester.