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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why I’ve taken the 5/1 on Trump not to visit the UK in 2017 an

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    DanSmith said:

    RobD said:

    DanSmith said:
    That page is wrong, surely? It suggests that the order only applies to people travelling from those countries. That is not the case?
    I doubt the UK government are making this up. Boris has spoken directly to Jared Kushner and Steve Bannon.
    What an utter mess!
    This is the text of the order:

    I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-muslim-executive-order-trump.html
    Yeah, it all hinges on the definition of the word "from"
    Yes, but if you take the other interpretation then this part of Boris's statement doesn't make sense:

    If you are a UK national who happens to be travelling from one of those countries to the US, then the order does not apply to you – even if you were born in one of those countries.
    So, presumably it does not apply to any UK citizen. Right ? Why not say that ?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,983
    Sandpit said:

    Somewhat brave and measured leader from the Telegraph.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/01/29/donald-trumps-answer-immigration-wrong-right-problem-solve/
    "Donald Trump's answer on immigration is questionable, but he's right that there is a problem to solve"

    They say it may anger people into hating the west, but on the other hand it may provoke moderates into distancing themselves further from extremists than before?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited January 2017
    In reality, nobody has a f##king clue what are the exact rules.

    Reince Priebus on US TV this morning said green card holder aren't affected, but there are reports that they have been. But even his answer was vague and unclear, as he said those green card holders travelling from the 7 countries should expect to be questioned, but that had nothing to do with the EO but because the security services wanted to ask more questions of why US resident individuals choose to return regularly to their homeland.

    I actually wonder if Mr Dilbert is on to something, that they are basically using this as an "opening offer", which the courts will limit and then they will say this is the line and roll their tanks up to it.

    With Team Trump it is just impossible to say.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    HYUFD said:
    How big of a thing is tactical voting in France? Some of those Hamon voters might switch to Macron.
  • Options

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's

    THEY WON'T



    While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
    Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
    It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?
    Well that one's pretty basic. God doesn't deny man free will. Otherwise what would be the point?
    People die of cancer and get murdered in death camps of their own free will, do they?
    I can only really ask you to ponder the stupidity of that response.
    No, that doesn't wotk. I said, why allow cancer and death camps, and you said "God doesn't deny man free will." How is the existence of cancer explained by the fact that people have free will?
    Mercury, transfats, radiation, modern working/sleep patterns, nitrogen fertilisers, pesticides, soy, hormone-treated meat, refined sugar, especially high fructose corn syrup, smoking, air pollution - which one is God responsible for?
    So God is now retired?
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because the referendum has made ukip pointless. To say May comes over as more personable than Cameron seems laughable. She barely beats Brown on that score.
    She's already dropped a couple of almighty bollocks..grammar schools and Trump so I'd say the jury is still out on her election prospects against anyone more electable than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Whether you agree with grammar schools or not ( I'm open to persuasion) the announcements were a complete cock up and tbh she should be making sure that the existing schools are both adequately and fairly funded ( which they aren't) rather than chucking red meat to the right of her party.

    Whether Brown would've won by more than Blair in 2005 is irrelevant to how personable May icomes across as ( not very).

  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,196
    Essexit said:

    HYUFD said:
    How big of a thing is tactical voting in France? Some of those Hamon voters might switch to Macron.
    You'd think Le Pen shouldn't have made the final two in 2002, but he did, so I wouldn't count on too much switching.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited January 2017
    Someone betting heavily on UKIP in stoke.

    Is there a poll?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    tlg86 said:

    Essexit said:

    HYUFD said:
    How big of a thing is tactical voting in France? Some of those Hamon voters might switch to Macron.
    You'd think Le Pen shouldn't have made the final two in 2002, but he did, so I wouldn't count on too much switching.
    Chirac was more "acceptable" than Fillon.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,983
    Pong said:

    Someone betting heavily on UKIP in stoke.

    Is there a poll?

    The LDs trade 470?!
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    surbiton said:

    Sean_F said:

    surbiton said:

    I agree with Alastair: Ed Miliband looks to be on manoeuvres.

    Of what form, I'm not sure, but it's very interesting.

    He's wanting to be Labour leader again, he knew he could never beat David Cameron but Mrs May is eminently beatable, I think the's right.

    The fact I tipped him at 200/1 as next Labour leader in a thread header is just mere coincidence.
    Ed should be thanked by Labour for many reasons. But one stands out. His Labour party in 2015 increased the vote share of the party losing in the previous election by the biggest % ever.

    In fact, since the war, this has happened only twice. Hague achieved it in 2001 with a small increase.

    Labour in 2015 won 30.4% against 29% in 2010 when it lost. This despite getting massacred in Scotland.

    The 1.4% increase in vote share remains the biggest increase by any party in the election after it lost. Of course, in England, the increase was even more.
    The increase was either in safe Labour seats or safe Conservative seats, or Lib Dem seats. Labour fell back where it mattered.
    You can mock as much as you like. But it was the highest increase since the war. Labour in 1955, 1974(F). Tories: 1966, 1974 (O), 2001.
    Churchill 1950, the small matter of 4.3%?
  • Options

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's

    THEY WON'T



    While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
    Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
    It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?
    Well that one's pretty basic. God doesn't deny man free will. Otherwise what would be the point?
    People die of cancer and get murdered in death camps of their own free will, do they?
    I can only really ask you to ponder the stupidity of that response.
    No, that doesn't wotk. I said, why allow cancer and death camps, and you said "God doesn't deny man free will." How is the existence of cancer explained by the fact that people have free will?
    Mercury, transfats, radiation, modern working/sleep patterns, nitrogen fertilisers, pesticides, soy, hormone-treated meat, refined sugar, especially high fructose corn syrup, smoking, air pollution - which one is God responsible for?
    All of 'em?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Ishmael_Z said:


    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's

    THEY WON'T



    While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
    Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
    It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer ?
    Well that one's pretty basic. God doesn't deny man free will. Otherwise what would be the point?
    But didn't he intervene at Sodom and Gomorrah?
    And in the Flood, and numerous times in the OT. I will admit I struggle with that aspect to God. But the point stands that God gave man free will - what would be the point in a creating a race toy robots? We are free to choose good or the other, that's why we are capable of doing great evil to each other.
    I don't think the death camp victims exercised much free will about it. Were they collateral damage in an exercise to explore the free will of their killers? That seems a bit unfair. Can you really imagine a God who could see the holocaust unfold in real time and think "I am ultimately responsible for this and I could stop it in a moment. But I won't." Really?

    And please explain how people die of cancer of their own free will.
    There is a whole theology of suffering, but the issues are explored in this interesting film

    https://youtu.be/0W9uRPuo7hc

    Dostoyevsky's Brothers Karamazov is another thoughtful rumination, but the Book of Job is a good place to start.

    There is a long religious tradition of pre-destination as opposed to free will also.

  • Options
    PaganPagan Posts: 259
    hmmm well everyone here is focussing on because they are brown or they are muslim so here is an alternative point of view

    These places are dystopian shit holes with a culture antithetical to ours. We are a product largely of our environment. Why the hell do we want to import people who are preprogrammed to think this is the way things happen. It isn't just about terrorism

    These people have been brought up in an environment unlike ours, when they come over they bring their world views with them which is why we get honour killings, fgm, rotherham, somali gangs, cologne

    When they become civillised let them in otherwise let them wallow in it
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    tlg86 said:

    Essexit said:

    HYUFD said:
    How big of a thing is tactical voting in France? Some of those Hamon voters might switch to Macron.
    You'd think Le Pen shouldn't have made the final two in 2002, but he did, so I wouldn't count on too much switching.
    As someone who doesn't know enough about French politics to be betting on their election, I still get the feeling that there's another chapter or two in this story still to come. What would happen if Hamon and Le Pen make the runoff, for example?
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's

    THEY WON'T



    While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
    Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
    It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?
    Well that one's pretty basic. God doesn't deny man free will. Otherwise what would be the point?
    People die of cancer and get murdered in death camps of their own free will, do they?
    I can only really ask you to ponder the stupidity of that response.
    No, that doesn't wotk. I said, why allow cancer and death camps, and you said "God doesn't deny man free will." How is the existence of cancer explained by the fact that people have free will?
    Mercury, transfats, radiation, modern working/sleep patterns, nitrogen fertilisers, pesticides, soy, hormone-treated meat, refined sugar, especially high fructose corn syrup, smoking, air pollution - which one is God responsible for?
    All of them, you monumental idiot. And in case you think yebbut man was part of the causal chain which got them into the environment, have a think about the horrible bacterial and viral diseases out there which not even cranks like you claim are caused by HFCS.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited January 2017
    While over in the Labour Party...

    Labour MP writes message slamming the 'ludicrous, nonsensical, pretend, unreal, b******s position' of the party - then shares it on WhatsApp with the colleagues she's criticising

    ...3 guesses who the Labour MP is?
  • Options
    BudGBudG Posts: 711
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Essexit said:

    HYUFD said:
    How big of a thing is tactical voting in France? Some of those Hamon voters might switch to Macron.
    You'd think Le Pen shouldn't have made the final two in 2002, but he did, so I wouldn't count on too much switching.
    As someone who doesn't know enough about French politics to be betting on their election, I still get the feeling that there's another chapter or two in this story still to come. What would happen if Hamon and Le Pen make the runoff, for example?
    Interesting scenario and not totally out of the question. Hamon has already made noises to Melenchon about having one candidate on the left and as Hamon is ahead at the moment, it would make sense to be Hamon if that was agreed.

    In that scenario I think you would probably be looking at President Hamon, because Macron's supporters would probably, in the main vote for Hamon rather than Le Pen. But it would be close because Fillon's supporters are likely either to abstain or vote Le Pen rather than vote for a hard left candidate.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Essexit said:

    HYUFD said:
    How big of a thing is tactical voting in France? Some of those Hamon voters might switch to Macron.
    You'd think Le Pen shouldn't have made the final two in 2002, but he did, so I wouldn't count on too much switching.
    As someone who doesn't know enough about French politics to be betting on their election, I still get the feeling that there's another chapter or two in this story still to come. What would happen if Hamon and Le Pen make the runoff, for example?
    Le Pen has a chance of winning in that scenario, though it is very unlikely
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    Essexit said:

    HYUFD said:
    How big of a thing is tactical voting in France? Some of those Hamon voters might switch to Macron.
    Those new Hamon voters are mainly coming from the hard left Melenchon so don't count on them switching to the Blairite Macron
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because the referendum has made ukip pointless. To say May comes over as more personable than Cameron seems laughable. She barely beats Brown on that score.
    She's already dropped a couple of almighty bollocks..grammar schools and Trump so I'd say the jury is still out on her election prospects against anyone more electable than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Cameron was simply great at thinking on his feet .... it was almost as if PMQs had been invented especially for him. On the heavyweight political issues, so not so impressive I'm afraid.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,119
    edited January 2017
    The head to head between Macron and Fillon shows just how much the momentum is with Macron.

    https://twitter.com/pierrebri/status/825807703691915268
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    edited January 2017
    BudG said:

    HYUFD said:



    Why would the French left back a Blairite like Macron in round 1? At best they will hold their noses for him in round 2 if he manages to get there

    HYUFD said:





    There already is one, Macron is basically a Cleggite LD candidate

    @HYUFD Now you have me confused, is Macron a Blairite or a Cleggite?

    Blairites and Cleggites are basically the same thing apart from the latter opposed the Iraq War but backed spending cuts
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's

    THEY WON'T



    While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
    Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
    It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?
    Well that one's pretty basic. God doesn't deny man free will. Otherwise what would be the point?
    People die of cancer and get murdered in death camps of their own free will, do they?
    I can only really ask you to ponder the stupidity of that response.
    No, that doesn't wotk. I said, why allow cancer and death camps, and you said "God doesn't deny man free will." How is the existence of cancer explained by the fact that people have free will?
    Mercury, transfats, radiation, modern working/sleep patterns, nitrogen fertilisers, pesticides, soy, hormone-treated meat, refined sugar, especially high fructose corn syrup, smoking, air pollution - which one is God responsible for?
    So God is now retired?

    On the seventh day He rested.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    edited January 2017

    While over in the Labour Party...

    Labour MP writes message slamming the 'ludicrous, nonsensical, pretend, unreal, b******s position' of the party - then shares it on WhatsApp with the colleagues she's criticising

    ...3 guesses who the Labour MP is?

    If that stupid woman was alone on a desert island, she would find some way to insult the palm trees so they threw coconuts at her.

    It's worrying that she and Hunt were the best Labour could manage for the Education brief, but it's scarcely less worrying than the fact that despite her disastrous mishandling of the 2015 election she is still listened to.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    ...3 guesses who the Labour MP is?

    I know the answer. She's part of the Ed Miliband tribute band that seems to be forming
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    edited January 2017
    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because the referendum has made ukip pointless. To say May comes over as more personable than Cameron seems laughable. She barely beats Brown on that score.
    She's already dropped a couple of almighty bollocks..grammar schools and Trump so I'd say the jury is still out on her election prospects against anyone more electable than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Whether you agree with grammar schools or not ( I'm open to persuasion) the announcements were a complete cock up and tbh she should be making sure that the existing schools are both adequately and fairly funded ( which they aren't) rather than chucking red meat to the right of her party.

    Whether Brown would've won by more than Blair in 2005 is irrelevant to how personable May icomes across as ( not very).

    I happen to believe allowing some new grammars along with new academies and free schools was entirely sensible while being strongly backed by Tory voters but I do not want to get into that argument now. May was never as rude to her backbenchers as Cameron was
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    Somewhat brave and measured leader from the Telegraph.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/01/29/donald-trumps-answer-immigration-wrong-right-problem-solve/
    "Donald Trump's answer on immigration is questionable, but he's right that there is a problem to solve"

    They say it may anger people into hating the west, but on the other hand it may provoke moderates into distancing themselves further from extremists than before?
    I think they're saying that while the aims of the policy may be sound, they've gone about it in a less than optimum manner - to the point of upsetting many moderates (Sir Mo Farah etc) that they should really be trying to keep onside.
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    Scott_P said:

    ...3 guesses who the Labour MP is?

    I know the answer. She's part of the Ed Miliband tribute band that seems to be forming
    PP offer the best odds on EdM becoming the next Labour Leader at 66/1, whereas Betfair who list literally dozens of candidates don't even include him.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    edited January 2017

    The head to head between Macron and Fillon shows just how much the momentum is with Macron.

    https://twitter.com/pierrebri/status/825807703691915268

    Second round polls are all very interesting but academic given on that poll Macron will still fail to reach round 2 despite a bad week for Fillon and Valls not being P.S. nominee. A Fillon v Macron race is also the least likely of the 3
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    BudG said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Essexit said:

    HYUFD said:
    How big of a thing is tactical voting in France? Some of those Hamon voters might switch to Macron.
    You'd think Le Pen shouldn't have made the final two in 2002, but he did, so I wouldn't count on too much switching.
    As someone who doesn't know enough about French politics to be betting on their election, I still get the feeling that there's another chapter or two in this story still to come. What would happen if Hamon and Le Pen make the runoff, for example?
    Interesting scenario and not totally out of the question. Hamon has already made noises to Melenchon about having one candidate on the left and as Hamon is ahead at the moment, it would make sense to be Hamon if that was agreed.

    In that scenario I think you would probably be looking at President Hamon, because Macron's supporters would probably, in the main vote for Hamon rather than Le Pen. But it would be close because Fillon's supporters are likely either to abstain or vote Le Pen rather than vote for a hard left candidate.
    Thanks for that, I was thinking along similar lines that Hamon (Rather than Fillon or Macron) as the opponent gives the highest probablilty of President Le Pen.
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    Is Helen Cochrane the new house cartoonist for PB.com?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,196
    Interesting too that Macron beats Le Pen by a bigger margin than the margin by which Fillon beats Le Pen.
  • Options

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's

    THEY WON'T



    While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
    Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
    It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?
    Well that one's pretty basic. God doesn't deny man free will. Otherwise what would be the point?
    People die of cancer and get murdered in death camps of their own free will, do they?
    I can only really ask you to ponder the stupidity of that response.
    No, that doesn't wotk. I said, why allow cancer and death camps, and you said "God doesn't deny man free will." How is the existence of cancer explained by the fact that people have free will?
    Mercury, transfats, radiation, modern working/sleep patterns, nitrogen fertilisers, pesticides, soy, hormone-treated meat, refined sugar, especially high fructose corn syrup, smoking, air pollution - which one is God responsible for?
    The fact that those things cause cancer? That cancer is even a thing?

    Marie Curie developed cancer through over exposure to radiation, because she didn't know the risks involved: how is that 'free will' if the rules are hidden?

  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's

    THEY WON'T



    While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
    Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
    It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?
    Well that one's pretty basic. God doesn't deny man free will. Otherwise what would be the point?
    I was going to pick @Luckyguy1983 up for his comments on religion but @Ishmael_X is doing such a great job of deconstructing his argument there is little I can add
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    BudG said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Essexit said:

    HYUFD said:
    How big of a thing is tactical voting in France? Some of those Hamon voters might switch to Macron.
    You'd think Le Pen shouldn't have made the final two in 2002, but he did, so I wouldn't count on too much switching.
    As someone who doesn't know enough about French politics to be betting on their election, I still get the feeling that there's another chapter or two in this story still to come. What would happen if Hamon and Le Pen make the runoff, for example?
    Interesting scenario and not totally out of the question. Hamon has already made noises to Melenchon about having one candidate on the left and as Hamon is ahead at the moment, it would make sense to be Hamon if that was agreed.

    In that scenario I think you would probably be looking at President Hamon, because Macron's supporters would probably, in the main vote for Hamon rather than Le Pen. But it would be close because Fillon's supporters are likely either to abstain or vote Le Pen rather than vote for a hard left candidate.
    Interesting, if Melenchon dropped out it could well be Le Pen v Hamon which would come down to whether more Fillon voters vote Le Pen than Macron voters vote Hamon
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Scott_P said:

    ...3 guesses who the Labour MP is?

    I know the answer. She's part of the Ed Miliband tribute band that seems to be forming
    What has Lucy Powell been saying ?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117

    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because the referendum has made ukip pointless. To say May comes over as more personable than Cameron seems laughable. She barely beats Brown on that score.
    She's already dropped a couple of almighty bollocks..grammar schools and Trump so I'd say the jury is still out on her election prospects against anyone more electable than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Cameron was simply great at thinking on his feet .... it was almost as if PMQs had been invented especially for him. On the heavyweight political issues, so not so impressive I'm afraid.
    Cameron was better at PMQs than May yes, though not as good as Hague was
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited January 2017

    DanSmith said:

    There's no way May can revoke the invite. All comes down to if Trump wants to press ahead and I think he will.

    The Queen could unfortunately have a "cold" and it could be postponed

    Pow! Bulls-eye. A really good use for royalty.

    But I wonder/doubt whether Trump would get the drift.
  • Options
    BudGBudG Posts: 711
    Sandpit said:

    BudG said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Essexit said:

    HYUFD said:
    How big of a thing is tactical voting in France? Some of those Hamon voters might switch to Macron.
    You'd think Le Pen shouldn't have made the final two in 2002, but he did, so I wouldn't count on too much switching.
    As someone who doesn't know enough about French politics to be betting on their election, I still get the feeling that there's another chapter or two in this story still to come. What would happen if Hamon and Le Pen make the runoff, for example?
    Interesting scenario and not totally out of the question. Hamon has already made noises to Melenchon about having one candidate on the left and as Hamon is ahead at the moment, it would make sense to be Hamon if that was agreed.

    In that scenario I think you would probably be looking at President Hamon, because Macron's supporters would probably, in the main vote for Hamon rather than Le Pen. But it would be close because Fillon's supporters are likely either to abstain or vote Le Pen rather than vote for a hard left candidate.
    Thanks for that, I was thinking along similar lines that Hamon (Rather than Fillon or Macron) as the opponent gives the highest probablilty of President Le Pen.
    Yes, if you are betting on Le Pen, Hamon would give you your best chance. However, if you are a Le Pen backer and hoping for that match-up to win your bet, then you would probably be better putting your money on Hamon at very high odds, rather than Le Pen and then evening out befoire the final round.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because the referendum has made ukip pointless. To say May comes over as more personable than Cameron seems laughable. She barely beats Brown on that score.
    She's already dropped a couple of almighty bollocks..grammar schools and Trump so I'd say the jury is still out on her election prospects against anyone more electable than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Cameron was simply great at thinking on his feet .... it was almost as if PMQs had been invented especially for him. On the heavyweight political issues, so not so impressive I'm afraid.
    Yes, Cameron on form at PMQs was something to behold, he is a naturally gifted orator and had the advantage of a full five years doing the LotO role before he became PM. By comparison Mrs May commands the stage well but is clearly out of her comfort zone - the scripted jokes and jibes seem much more scripted in their delivery.

    Unfortunately, we all saw the other side of David Cameron, when last February he messed up the EU negotiations then tried to tell us he'd done the best deal ever. It was the end of him.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Toms said:

    Pow! Bulls-eye. A really good use for royalty.

    But I wonder/doubt whether Trump would get the drift.

    The Queen is indisposed but Prince Charles looks forward to welcoming the President.

    Oh, Trump has cancelled...
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,983
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because the referendum has made ukip pointless. To say May comes over as more personable than Cameron seems laughable. She barely beats Brown on that score.
    She's already dropped a couple of almighty bollocks..grammar schools and Trump so I'd say the jury is still out on her election prospects against anyone more electable than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Cameron was simply great at thinking on his feet .... it was almost as if PMQs had been invented especially for him. On the heavyweight political issues, so not so impressive I'm afraid.
    Yes, Cameron on form at PMQs was something to behold, he is a naturally gifted orator and had the advantage of a full five years doing the LotO role before he became PM. By comparison Mrs May commands the stage well but is clearly out of her comfort zone - the scripted jokes and jibes seem much more scripted in their delivery.

    Unfortunately, we all saw the other side of David Cameron, when last February he messed up the EU negotiations then tried to tell us he'd done the best deal ever. It was the end of him.
    In short, all style and no substance
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @HallieJackson: Senior admin. official confirms SCOTUS pick could be announced as early as tmrw or Tuesday - rather than Thursday, as originally expected.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Toms said:

    DanSmith said:

    There's no way May can revoke the invite. All comes down to if Trump wants to press ahead and I think he will.

    The Queen could unfortunately have a "cold" and it could be postponed

    Pow! Bulls-eye. A really good use for royalty.

    But I wonder/doubt whether Trump would get the drift.
    Finally someone has found a use for them! I have often wondered. Yes a royal snub for Trumpton would almost be worth the billions of pounds of gold-plated welfare payments we have lavished on a single family over the past few hundred years.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Jobabob said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's

    THEY WON'T



    While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
    Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
    It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?
    Well that one's pretty basic. God doesn't deny man free will. Otherwise what would be the point?
    I was going to pick @Luckyguy1983 up for his comments on religion but @Ishmael_X is doing such a great job of deconstructing his argument there is little I can add
    Yes, stay quiet and leave the talking to the adults.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Scott_P said:

    @HallieJackson: Senior admin. official confirms SCOTUS pick could be announced as early as tmrw or Tuesday - rather than Thursday, as originally expected.

    A reverse squirrel?
  • Options
    Jobabob said:

    Toms said:

    DanSmith said:

    There's no way May can revoke the invite. All comes down to if Trump wants to press ahead and I think he will.

    The Queen could unfortunately have a "cold" and it could be postponed

    Pow! Bulls-eye. A really good use for royalty.

    But I wonder/doubt whether Trump would get the drift.
    Finally someone has found a use for them! I have often wondered. Yes a royal snub for Trumpton would almost be worth the billions of pounds of gold-plated welfare payments we have lavished on a single family over the past few hundred years.
    Didn't know you were a "Republican"!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's

    THEY WON'T



    While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
    Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
    It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?
    Well that one's pretty basic. God doesn't deny man free will. Otherwise what would be the point?
    People die of cancer and get murdered in death camps of their own free will, do they?
    I can only really ask you to ponder the stupidity of that response.
    No, that doesn't wotk. I said, why allow cancer and death camps, and you said "God doesn't deny man free will." How is the existence of cancer explained by the fact that people have free will?
    Mercury, transfats, radiation, modern working/sleep patterns, nitrogen fertilisers, pesticides, soy, hormone-treated meat, refined sugar, especially high fructose corn syrup, smoking, air pollution - which one is God responsible for?
    So God is now retired?
    Bet he got a belter of a pension scheme....
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because the referendum has made ukip pointless. To say May comes over as more personable than Cameron seems laughable. She barely beats Brown on that score.
    She's already dropped a couple of almighty bollocks..grammar schools and Trump so I'd say the jury is still out on her election prospects against anyone more electable than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Cameron was simply great at thinking on his feet .... it was almost as if PMQs had been invented especially for him. On the heavyweight political issues, so not so impressive I'm afraid.
    Yes, Cameron on form at PMQs was something to behold, he is a naturally gifted orator and had the advantage of a full five years doing the LotO role before he became PM. By comparison Mrs May commands the stage well but is clearly out of her comfort zone - the scripted jokes and jibes seem much more scripted in their delivery.

    Unfortunately, we all saw the other side of David Cameron, when last February he messed up the EU negotiations then tried to tell us he'd done the best deal ever. It was the end of him.
    I imagine Labour would fancy their chances of beating May rather than Cameron in an election if only because the Tory right in their infinite wisdom managed to simultaneously detoxify the Lib Dems and remind voters of the freaks on the Tory right during the referendum.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Is Helen Cochrane the new house cartoonist for PB.com?

    I really hope not as (already, below) I really don't get the messages in any of them at all.

    If we must use them then an explanation would help.
    Or maybe it's a trial of a new PB competition?
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Jobabob said:

    Toms said:

    DanSmith said:

    There's no way May can revoke the invite. All comes down to if Trump wants to press ahead and I think he will.

    The Queen could unfortunately have a "cold" and it could be postponed

    Pow! Bulls-eye. A really good use for royalty.

    But I wonder/doubt whether Trump would get the drift.
    Finally someone has found a use for them! I have often wondered. Yes a royal snub for Trumpton would almost be worth the billions of pounds of gold-plated welfare payments we have lavished on a single family over the past few hundred years.
    Well if he's not clubbable---one must keep up standards you know.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because the referendum has made ukip pointless. To say May comes over as more personable than Cameron seems laughable. She barely beats Brown on that score.
    She's already dropped a couple of almighty bollocks..grammar schools and Trump so I'd say the jury is still out on her election prospects against anyone more electable than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Cameron was simply great at thinking on his feet .... it was almost as if PMQs had been invented especially for him. On the heavyweight political issues, so not so impressive I'm afraid.
    Cameron was better at PMQs than May yes, though not as good as Hague was
    Hague was very very good against Blair, and continues to make good money on the after dinner circuit as a fine speaker. He should have waited five years though, he was only 36 in 1997 and up against a landslide.

    In an alternative history he'd have been elected leader in 2003, managed to survive the 2005 election to become PM in 2008 as Brown choked.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because the referendum has made ukip pointless. To say May comes over as more personable than Cameron seems laughable. She barely beats Brown on that score.
    She's already dropped a couple of almighty bollocks..grammar schools and Trump so I'd say the jury is still out on her election prospects against anyone more electable than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Cameron was simply great at thinking on his feet .... it was almost as if PMQs had been invented especially for him. On the heavyweight political issues, so not so impressive I'm afraid.
    Was he? I'm not sure Cameron was that fast on his feet at PMQs. He was more like Mrs Thatcher, in that he'd mastered the brief, just like revising for an exam. Provided the question had been anticipated, the answer was in his head or at worst in his folder. If not, Cameron would often bluster or even lose his temper. We had a long period where for both sides, the stand-ins were better than their leaders at PMQs: Hague and Harman.
  • Options
    GeoffM said:

    Is Helen Cochrane the new house cartoonist for PB.com?

    I really hope not as (already, below) I really don't get the messages in any of them at all.

    If we must use them then an explanation would help.
    Or maybe it's a trial of a new PB competition?
    BRING BACK MARF!
  • Options
    Boris in HOC answering urgent question tomorrow from Emily Thornberry should be fun.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    Toms said:

    DanSmith said:

    There's no way May can revoke the invite. All comes down to if Trump wants to press ahead and I think he will.

    The Queen could unfortunately have a "cold" and it could be postponed

    Pow! Bulls-eye. A really good use for royalty.

    But I wonder/doubt whether Trump would get the drift.
    Finally someone has found a use for them! I have often wondered. Yes a royal snub for Trumpton would almost be worth the billions of pounds of gold-plated welfare payments we have lavished on a single family over the past few hundred years.
    Didn't know you were a "Republican"!
    Only in very recent years I have become so. I have found it impossible to square my meritocratic principles with the monarchy, Britain's richest welfare family, as I have got older. Also, the monarchy have become more annoying (Liz getting involved in the Indy Ref, Brexit) and dull (Kate and William are proper young fogeys, the sort of dreary greys you avoid at parties). If we had Harry and Meghan in charge I could be persuaded on the grounds of entertainment.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited January 2017
    Scott_P said:

    @HallieJackson: Senior admin. official confirms SCOTUS pick could be announced as early as tmrw or Tuesday - rather than Thursday, as originally expected.

    So the Dead Cat Strategy has made it over the Pond then? What's the bets that his first choice for SC will completely outrage all but the hardcore Republicans?

    I think Mr Dilbert has it right, Trump is basically doing his negotiating in public with the American people, in the same way he campaigned and run his business beforehand. I think he's trying to turn the outrage up to 11 in a way that will let the real agenda slide through underneath, supported by the Republicans in Congress. Very smart if he pulls it off.
  • Options
    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Toms said:

    DanSmith said:

    There's no way May can revoke the invite. All comes down to if Trump wants to press ahead and I think he will.

    The Queen could unfortunately have a "cold" and it could be postponed

    Pow! Bulls-eye. A really good use for royalty.

    But I wonder/doubt whether Trump would get the drift.
    Finally someone has found a use for them! I have often wondered. Yes a royal snub for Trumpton would almost be worth the billions of pounds of gold-plated welfare payments we have lavished on a single family over the past few hundred years.
    Didn't know you were a "Republican"!
    Only in very recent years I have become so. I have found it impossible to square my meritocratic principles with the monarchy, Britain's richest welfare family, as I have got older. Also, the monarchy have become more annoying (Liz getting involved in the Indy Ref, Brexit) and dull (Kate and William are proper young fogeys, the sort of dreary greys you avoid at parties). If we had Harry and Meghan in charge I could be persuaded on the grounds of entertainment.
    I thought you were a Democrat, not a Republican :lol:
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    GeoffM said:

    Jobabob said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jobabob said:

    SeanT said:

    And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's

    THEY WON'T



    While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
    Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
    It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?
    Well that one's pretty basic. God doesn't deny man free will. Otherwise what would be the point?
    I was going to pick @Luckyguy1983 up for his comments on religion but @Ishmael_X is doing such a great job of deconstructing his argument there is little I can add
    Yes, stay quiet and leave the talking to the adults.
    Thank you for your support Geoff!
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,954
    edited January 2017
    Jobabob said:

    Toms said:

    DanSmith said:

    There's no way May can revoke the invite. All comes down to if Trump wants to press ahead and I think he will.

    The Queen could unfortunately have a "cold" and it could be postponed

    Pow! Bulls-eye. A really good use for royalty.

    But I wonder/doubt whether Trump would get the drift.
    Finally someone has found a use for them! I have often wondered. Yes a royal snub for Trumpton would almost be worth the billions of pounds of gold-plated welfare payments we have lavished on a single family over the past few hundred years.
    Oh dear, I see you don't understand the Crown estates either. Is there anything you're not against?

    Would love to see some polling on the monarchy - pretty sure the common ground is very pro...
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    GeoffM said:

    Is Helen Cochrane the new house cartoonist for PB.com?

    I really hope not as (already, below) I really don't get the messages in any of them at all.

    If we must use them then an explanation would help.
    Or maybe it's a trial of a new PB competition?
    BRING BACK MARF!
    Oh that's helpful.

    The cartoon pic has been re-uploaded with a second line of text at the bottom.
    That makes the meaning clear-ish now.

    Cheers!
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Last night I went to an absolutely splendid Burns Night at the Casino Calpe (cascalpe.gi)

    One of the other guests was Paul Cartwright. He's one of the 9 litigants led by Gina Miller who won in the Supreme Court the other day.

    We had a lengthy, good humoured and very challenging conversation on what is still very much a burning hot topic here in Gib. Sensibly the conversation moved on to other things as the whisky began to flow ... no sense in prematurely curtailing a potential friendship with late evening alcohol fuelled political arm waving, obviously.

    For a rounded post; here's his blog on why he wants to stop Brexit - a position I respect him holding although of course I completely disagree with it.

    http://want2stay.com/i-am-the-96/

    We're going to continue our conversation next in the cold light of day. Even though we won't move a step towards each other its good to flesh out the arguments against an opposing true believer in a polite and mutually respectful way - unlike the constant unpleasantness and negativity on here coming from Meeks, PasteBoy and the other one.

    Even though his view of things is diametrically opposed to mine he's a very articulate and interesting chap. I'm going to see if he will write a thread header for here.
  • Options
    Reference the cartoon, remember that in the USA Federal Judges can only be removed by impeachment in the Senate by a two-thirds majority; otherwise they are appointed for life. Removal by impeachment has only happened once, early in the 19th century, when a judge who was literally mad was removed before he could do any more harm.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Just the headline he wants

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/825822649519575040

    Or maybe not

    @RhonddaBryant: By merely seeking an exemption for dual national Britons May and Johnson have essentially endorsed Trump. Not good enough.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    @Mortimer - I would be in a tiny minority, and I don't give a crap.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because the referendum has made ukip pointless. To say May comes over as more personable than Cameron seems laughable. She barely beats Brown on that score.
    She's already dropped a couple of almighty bollocks..grammar schools and Trump so I'd say the jury is still out on her election prospects against anyone more electable than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Cameron was simply great at thinking on his feet .... it was almost as if PMQs had been invented especially for him. On the heavyweight political issues, so not so impressive I'm afraid.
    Cameron was better at PMQs than May yes, though not as good as Hague was
    Hague was very very good against Blair, and continues to make good money on the after dinner circuit as a fine speaker. He should have waited five years though, he was only 36 in 1997 and up against a landslide.

    In an alternative history he'd have been elected leader in 2003, managed to survive the 2005 election to become PM in 2008 as Brown choked.
    Hague's mistake was to run himself in 1997 rather than backing Michael Howard as he originally planned
  • Options
    Scott_P said:


    @RhonddaBryant: By merely seeking an exemption for dual national Britons May and Johnson have essentially endorsed Trump. Not good enough.

    Some might say of course he would say that.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because the referendum has made ukip pointless. To say May comes over as more personable than Cameron seems laughable. She barely beats Brown on that score.
    She's already dropped a couple of almighty bollocks..grammar schools and Trump so I'd say the jury is still out on her election prospects against anyone more electable than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Cameron was simply great at thinking on his feet .... it was almost as if PMQs had been invented especially for him. On the heavyweight political issues, so not so impressive I'm afraid.
    Yes, Cameron on form at PMQs was something to behold, he is a naturally gifted orator and had the advantage of a full five years doing the LotO role before he became PM. By comparison Mrs May commands the stage well but is clearly out of her comfort zone - the scripted jokes and jibes seem much more scripted in their delivery.

    Unfortunately, we all saw the other side of David Cameron, when last February he messed up the EU negotiations then tried to tell us he'd done the best deal ever. It was the end of him.
    In short, all style and no substance
    Although unlike our current PM he did have the substance to describe Trumps plans to block Muslims entering the US as divisive, stupid and wrong.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,196
    Thanks GeoffM - that looks interesting. My dad's view is that if Gib is desperate to stay in the EU then we should hand it back to the Spanish.
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    Jobabob said:

    Toms said:

    DanSmith said:

    There's no way May can revoke the invite. All comes down to if Trump wants to press ahead and I think he will.

    The Queen could unfortunately have a "cold" and it could be postponed

    Pow! Bulls-eye. A really good use for royalty.

    But I wonder/doubt whether Trump would get the drift.
    Finally someone has found a use for them! I have often wondered. Yes a royal snub for Trumpton would almost be worth the billions of pounds of gold-plated welfare payments we have lavished on a single family over the past few hundred years.
    Oh dear, I see you don't understand the Crown estates either. Is there anything you're not against?

    Would love to see some polling on the monarchy - pretty sure the common ground is very pro...
    I was very much a Republican for years but recently my respect for the Queen has grown considerably.

    I remember her coronation in 1953 as being a street event with everyone coming into our house to watch it on our black and white tv with the curtains drawn (the only way you could see the picture). I used to get annoyed as my Grandmother kept on standing to attention as she was a fanatical Royalist.

    I do believe that both her and Phillip's service to the Country has been unrivalled and I do worry at the void there will be once she has passed away.

    I have no time for Charles and Camilla and I think that William and Catherine are too lazy at present to be a success. Maybe I will become a Republican again, who knows
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,378
    tlg86 said:

    Interesting too that Macron beats Le Pen by a bigger margin than the margin by which Fillon beats Le Pen.

    I think that's predictable. Fillon is a self described Thatcherite with echoes of Sarkozy on race/religion. Of course he's preferable to Le Pen, but as Clinton found out, there are parts of the left who are simply unwilling to vote on calculation, which in this case would be even more of a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea. Plus part of Le Pen's pitch is a protectionist one aimed at what you might call the old left - who might vote for her over Fillon but might be open to Macron's entreaties. Macron's palatable enough to the left scoop up most of the PS vote, and probably some of the Melenchon vote while anyone on the right who doesn't want to tear up the EU has to vote for him. The question is, whether as someone trying to carve out a new constituency of centrists in a system which still has left-right loyalties as its basis, he can get into the second round. Probably depends on whether Fillon scandal rumbles on, and whether Hamon gets enough momentum to make him a serious contender, if not Macron can make the pitch to the left that he's the only man who can stop the horror of a Fillon Le Pen run-off.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,119
    edited January 2017
    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/825823217025691648

    About McCain and Graham. Hard to fault him on this.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    @HallieJackson: Senior admin. official confirms SCOTUS pick could be announced as early as tmrw or Tuesday - rather than Thursday, as originally expected.

    So the Dead Cat Strategy has made it over the Pond then? What's the bets that his first choice for SC will completely outrage all but the hardcore Republicans?
    It'll be Merrick Garland.

    Note: This is clearly a joke post.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,982
    edited January 2017
    Old_Hand said:

    Reference the cartoon, remember that in the USA Federal Judges can only be removed by impeachment in the Senate by a two-thirds majority; otherwise they are appointed for life. Removal by impeachment has only happened once, early in the 19th century, when a judge who was literally mad was removed before he could do any more harm.

    It might be a different thing but I think you are wrong.

    List of Federal Judges removed by impeachment:

    John Pickering 1803
    West Hughes Humphreys 1862
    Robert Wodrow Archbald 1912
    Halsted L. Ritter 1936
    Harry E. Claiborne 1986
    Alcee Hastings 1989
    Walter Nixon 1989
    Thomas Porteous 2010

    Edit: Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States#Federal_officials_impeached
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @StevenTDennis: Trump picks fight with 2 Republicans in a 52-48 Senate. twitter.com/realdonaldtrum…
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    GeoffM said:

    Last night I went to an absolutely splendid Burns Night at the Casino Calpe (cascalpe.gi)

    One of the other guests was Paul Cartwright. He's one of the 9 litigants led by Gina Miller who won in the Supreme Court the other day.

    We had a lengthy, good humoured and very challenging conversation on what is still very much a burning hot topic here in Gib. Sensibly the conversation moved on to other things as the whisky began to flow ... no sense in prematurely curtailing a potential friendship with late evening alcohol fuelled political arm waving, obviously.

    For a rounded post; here's his blog on why he wants to stop Brexit - a position I respect him holding although of course I completely disagree with it.

    http://want2stay.com/i-am-the-96/

    We're going to continue our conversation next in the cold light of day. Even though we won't move a step towards each other its good to flesh out the arguments against an opposing true believer in a polite and mutually respectful way - unlike the constant unpleasantness and negativity on here coming from Meeks, PasteBoy and the other one.

    Even though his view of things is diametrically opposed to mine he's a very articulate and interesting chap. I'm going to see if he will write a thread header for here.

    That was a good read, and I can understand his point of view while disagreeing with him on the wider picture of why the UK should leave the EU. The status of Gibraltar should be part of the negotiations, possibly we can leave it inside the customs union so as not to restrict traffic across the border, or perhaps the Gibraltarians would prefer to be like the Channel Islands as a tax haven?

    Do we have any polling on the Rock about how the locals see Brexit working out for them, what the popular options might be?
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,289
    Paul Waugh on that flight back from Turkey.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-refugee-ban-how-theresa-mays-us-and-turkey-trip-ended-in-political-firestorm_uk_588e503be4b077309837c96b?o45bemajuifmeu3di

    Too many people assuming that something could be said from the plane?
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    tlg86 said:

    Thanks GeoffM - that looks interesting. My dad's view is that if Gib is desperate to stay in the EU then we should hand it back to the Spanish.

    As it's been British longer than it's been anything else I'm not sure that "back" has any real meaning here.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited January 2017
    dr_spyn said:

    Paul Waugh on that flight back from Turkey.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-refugee-ban-how-theresa-mays-us-and-turkey-trip-ended-in-political-firestorm_uk_588e503be4b077309837c96b?o45bemajuifmeu3di

    Too many people assuming that something could be said from the plane?

    The PM’s plane is a specially-adapted Airbus A330 which spends most of its time as a mid-air fuel tanker for fighter jets. Its stripped-down nature, with no onboard TVs or hi-tech gadgets seen on a commercial airliner, is a far cry from the round-the-clock communications of Trump’s Air Force One. It has just one satellite phone, and no wifi or means of monitoring what’s happening online.

    In this day and age, that's a bit shit to put it mildly. And I presume this is the Dave Force One that they spent a load of money adapting only a year or so ago.

    No need for the old journos to be able to enjoy 4k movies while they fly, but the PM and her team to have the old interwebs access might be kinder useful...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because the referendum has made ukip pointless. To say May comes over as more personable than Cameron seems laughable. She barely beats Brown on that score.
    She's already dropped a couple of almighty bollocks..grammar schools and Trump so I'd say the jury is still out on her election prospects against anyone more electable than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Cameron was simply great at thinking on his feet .... it was almost as if PMQs had been invented especially for him. On the heavyweight political issues, so not so impressive I'm afraid.
    Cameron was better at PMQs than May yes, though not as good as Hague was
    Hague was very very good against Blair, and continues to make good money on the after dinner circuit as a fine speaker. He should have waited five years though, he was only 36 in 1997 and up against a landslide.

    In an alternative history he'd have been elected leader in 2003, managed to survive the 2005 election to become PM in 2008 as Brown choked.
    Hague's mistake was to run himself in 1997 rather than backing Michael Howard as he originally planned
    I didn't know that, and yes it would have been his better strategy and would have set himself up as the new leader in 2001. He could have probably survived 2005 as Kinnock survived 1987 to be in with a shout as Brown called the election in 2008.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Sandpit said:

    GeoffM said:

    Last night I went to an absolutely splendid Burns Night at the Casino Calpe (cascalpe.gi)

    One of the other guests was Paul Cartwright. He's one of the 9 litigants led by Gina Miller who won in the Supreme Court the other day.

    We had a lengthy, good humoured and very challenging conversation on what is still very much a burning hot topic here in Gib. Sensibly the conversation moved on to other things as the whisky began to flow ... no sense in prematurely curtailing a potential friendship with late evening alcohol fuelled political arm waving, obviously.

    For a rounded post; here's his blog on why he wants to stop Brexit - a position I respect him holding although of course I completely disagree with it.

    http://want2stay.com/i-am-the-96/

    We're going to continue our conversation next in the cold light of day. Even though we won't move a step towards each other its good to flesh out the arguments against an opposing true believer in a polite and mutually respectful way - unlike the constant unpleasantness and negativity on here coming from Meeks, PasteBoy and the other one.

    Even though his view of things is diametrically opposed to mine he's a very articulate and interesting chap. I'm going to see if he will write a thread header for here.

    That was a good read, and I can understand his point of view while disagreeing with him on the wider picture of why the UK should leave the EU. The status of Gibraltar should be part of the negotiations, possibly we can leave it inside the customs union so as not to restrict traffic across the border, or perhaps the Gibraltarians would prefer to be like the Channel Islands as a tax haven?

    Do we have any polling on the Rock about how the locals see Brexit working out for them, what the popular options might be?
    Paul (and others locally) haven't looked at the Channel Islands solution as an alternative. I know it well - I have family there, which was why we were able to talk constructively about real life ideas rather than just rehearse old arguments.

    There's no local polling on the subject yet ... just politicians telling us that that they are all fighting for us etc etc. And the Chief Minister likes Sturgeon more than is healthy.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Mortimer said:

    Jobabob said:

    Toms said:

    DanSmith said:

    There's no way May can revoke the invite. All comes down to if Trump wants to press ahead and I think he will.

    The Queen could unfortunately have a "cold" and it could be postponed

    Pow! Bulls-eye. A really good use for royalty.

    But I wonder/doubt whether Trump would get the drift.
    Finally someone has found a use for them! I have often wondered. Yes a royal snub for Trumpton would almost be worth the billions of pounds of gold-plated welfare payments we have lavished on a single family over the past few hundred years.
    Oh dear, I see you don't understand the Crown estates either. Is there anything you're not against?

    Would love to see some polling on the monarchy - pretty sure the common ground is very pro...
    I was very much a Republican for years but recently my respect for the Queen has grown considerably.

    I remember her coronation in 1953 as being a street event with everyone coming into our house to watch it on our black and white tv with the curtains drawn (the only way you could see the picture). I used to get annoyed as my Grandmother kept on standing to attention as she was a fanatical Royalist.

    I do believe that both her and Phillip's service to the Country has been unrivalled and I do worry at the void there will be once she has passed away.

    I have no time for Charles and Camilla and I think that William and Catherine are too lazy at present to be a success. Maybe I will become a Republican again, who knows
    I was generally warm towards Liz until she started meddling in political matters (Scots Indy, Brexit) which put me off. Kate and William are just crushingly dull. If we could sex up the monarchy for public entertainment I could be persuaded but all the vaguely interesting royals are so far down the line it ain't happening. Meghan is lovely though and will make a nice change as a princess.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,119
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hague's mistake was to run himself in 1997 rather than backing Michael Howard as he originally planned

    I didn't know that, and yes it would have been his better strategy and would have set himself up as the new leader in 2001. He could have probably survived 2005 as Kinnock survived 1987 to be in with a shout as Brown called the election in 2008.
    Wasn't it after Anne Widdecombe sunk Howard with the 'something of the night' comment?
  • Options

    dr_spyn said:

    Paul Waugh on that flight back from Turkey.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-refugee-ban-how-theresa-mays-us-and-turkey-trip-ended-in-political-firestorm_uk_588e503be4b077309837c96b?o45bemajuifmeu3di

    Too many people assuming that something could be said from the plane?

    The PM’s plane is a specially-adapted Airbus A330 which spends most of its time as a mid-air fuel tanker for fighter jets. Its stripped-down nature, with no onboard TVs or hi-tech gadgets seen on a commercial airliner, is a far cry from the round-the-clock communications of Trump’s Air Force One. It has just one satellite phone, and no wifi or means of monitoring what’s happening online.

    In this day and age, that's a bit shit to put it mildly. And I presume this is the Dave Force One that they spent a load of money adapting only a year or so ago.

    No need for the old journos to be able to enjoy 4k movies while they fly, but the PM and her team to have the old interwebs access might be kinder useful...
    Similar planes are operated by Air Tanker on behalf of Thomas Cook, they are painted all-white and can be seen at Brum airport from time to time.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:
    Strange they mention Muslim countries and women's rights in the same sentence. Lefties very keen to criticise Trump re. sexism, but not Islam.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,289

    dr_spyn said:

    Paul Waugh on that flight back from Turkey.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-refugee-ban-how-theresa-mays-us-and-turkey-trip-ended-in-political-firestorm_uk_588e503be4b077309837c96b?o45bemajuifmeu3di

    Too many people assuming that something could be said from the plane?

    The PM’s plane is a specially-adapted Airbus A330 which spends most of its time as a mid-air fuel tanker for fighter jets. Its stripped-down nature, with no onboard TVs or hi-tech gadgets seen on a commercial airliner, is a far cry from the round-the-clock communications of Trump’s Air Force One. It has just one satellite phone, and no wifi or means of monitoring what’s happening online.

    In this day and age, that's a bit shit to put it mildly. And I presume this is the Dave Force One that they spent a load of money adapting only a year or so ago.

    No need for the old journos to be able to enjoy 4k movies while they fly, but the PM and her team to have the old interwebs access might be kinder useful...
    It does seem to be an interesting take on what might or might not be on board.
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,041
    Scott_P said:

    Just the headline he wants

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/825822649519575040

    Or maybe not

    @RhonddaBryant: By merely seeking an exemption for dual national Britons May and Johnson have essentially endorsed Trump. Not good enough.

    Can't believe how our political class are a bunch of amateurs now. Is everyone really that thick?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,954
    murali_s said:

    Scott_P said:

    Just the headline he wants

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/825822649519575040

    Or maybe not

    @RhonddaBryant: By merely seeking an exemption for dual national Britons May and Johnson have essentially endorsed Trump. Not good enough.

    Can't believe how our political class are a bunch of amateurs now. Is everyone really that thick?
    Indeed. The Labour Party and Lib Dems are led by people with no ministerial experience whatsoever. No wonder they're languishing in the polls.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,119
    Scott_P said:

    Just the headline he wants

    According to Waugh's article it's just the headline he was asked by the White House not to spin.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't agree May is more easily beatable than Cameron. I think the reverse.

    Cameron always suffered from his poshness. He was easy to portray as an arrogant, swaggering bully.

    May is a curious person. Her angularity and gawkiness contribute to a sense of vulnerability, ordinariness & even fragility. She can evoke sympathy, whereas Cameron never could.

    I think both Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon have found it harder to make progress against Theresa May than they would have done against David Cameron.

    May's rather odd personality seems to have wrong-footed them.

    Cameron looks more like a PM than May and is more charismatic and self confident but May is more personable, less posh and more hard working. In short there has been a mild shift of centrist upper middle-class voters from the Tories to the LDs matched by a slight shift of working class and lower middle-class voters from UKIP and Labour to the Tories
    There's been a shift from Labour because of Corbyn and a shift from UKIP because than Jezza.
    Grammar schools has firmed up her base, it was Cameron's comments on them which annoyed the base prior to 2010. Of course Brown would likely have won the 2005 election by a wider margin than Blair did
    Cameron was simply great at thinking on his feet .... it was almost as if PMQs had been invented especially for him. On the heavyweight political issues, so not so impressive I'm afraid.
    Cameron was better at PMQs than May yes, though not as good as Hague was
    Hague was very very good against Blair, and continues to make good money on the after dinner circuit as a fine speaker. He should have waited five years though, he was only 36 in 1997 and up against a landslide.

    In an alternative history he'd have been elected leader in 2003, managed to survive the 2005 election to become PM in 2008 as Brown choked.
    Hague's mistake was to run himself in 1997 rather than backing Michael Howard as he originally planned
    I didn't know that, and yes it would have been his better strategy and would have set himself up as the new leader in 2001. He could have probably survived 2005 as Kinnock survived 1987 to be in with a shout as Brown called the election in 2008.
    Agreed
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    glwglw Posts: 9,551

    I was very much a Republican for years but recently my respect for the Queen has grown considerably.

    I'm a staunch Monarchist — God save the Queen — and my argument is very simple; look at America. Checkmate.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited January 2017

    dr_spyn said:

    Paul Waugh on that flight back from Turkey.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-refugee-ban-how-theresa-mays-us-and-turkey-trip-ended-in-political-firestorm_uk_588e503be4b077309837c96b?o45bemajuifmeu3di

    Too many people assuming that something could be said from the plane?

    The PM’s plane is a specially-adapted Airbus A330 which spends most of its time as a mid-air fuel tanker for fighter jets. Its stripped-down nature, with no onboard TVs or hi-tech gadgets seen on a commercial airliner, is a far cry from the round-the-clock communications of Trump’s Air Force One. It has just one satellite phone, and no wifi or means of monitoring what’s happening online.

    In this day and age, that's a bit shit to put it mildly. And I presume this is the Dave Force One that they spent a load of money adapting only a year or so ago.

    No need for the old journos to be able to enjoy 4k movies while they fly, but the PM and her team to have the old interwebs access might be kinder useful...
    Yes, it's one of the RAF Voyager A330-based refullers, with a business class section at the front for the VIPs. It's been operational in that role for a year or so.

    Either it's a massive extravagance in the era of defence cuts, or a huge cut down from the proposed "Blair Force One" of a few years back, depending on your point of view. I'm not surprised it doesn't look like Emirates or Singapore inside, without satellite wifi for a dozen hacks in the cheap seats. I bet they can patch the PM to the President if required though ;)

    Govt VIP long haul flights used to be chartered from BA or Virgin, but the commercial airlines were finding it increasingly difficult to get aircraft available, often at the short notice required - they spend millions on fleet management to avoid having spare planes they don't need!
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    isamisam Posts: 40,983
    Scott_P said:

    Just the headline he wants

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/825822649519575040

    Or maybe not

    @RhonddaBryant: By merely seeking an exemption for dual national Britons May and Johnson have essentially endorsed Trump. Not good enough.

    I thought you meant Roger Federer!
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    glw said:

    I was very much a Republican for years but recently my respect for the Queen has grown considerably.

    I'm a staunch Monarchist — God save the Queen — and my argument is very simple; look at America. Checkmate.
    I am 100% behind the Queen but what follows is a worry
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052

    Scott_P said:
    Strange they mention Muslim countries and women's rights in the same sentence. Lefties very keen to criticise Trump re. sexism, but not Islam.
    Isn't the author a Tory MP?
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    glwglw Posts: 9,551

    glw said:

    I was very much a Republican for years but recently my respect for the Queen has grown considerably.

    I'm a staunch Monarchist — God save the Queen — and my argument is very simple; look at America. Checkmate.
    I am 100% behind the Queen but what follows is a worry
    I'm no fan of Charles but the chance of Royal lineage throwing up a Nixon or Trump for just two examples is vanishingly small.
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