Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After last night Ukip has now made more net gains in local

24

Comments

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    On Osborne, it’s more than likely that they were keen (as they should have been) to minimise the time GO spent “in the open” as that is a risk and they are...protection officers....

    That meant parking next to the building and that meant disabled (or baby) parking spaces. They made the call that it was better to do this than have GO trudging to the other side of the car park.

    Difficult to explain to the man on the Clapham Omnibus, though, as sure as eggs is eggs the response would be “hoity-toity politicians getting above us by thinking they are at risk.”
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,405

    Mr. Observer, bedrooms are not being taxed.

    Would Philpott have benefited from the changes? The answer is yes: he had a big family living in cramped conditions and needed a bigger house. Given that the consensus among right wing posters on here seems to be that Philpott is an extreme example of a large number of feckless, child-breeding benefit dependent scroungers, it seems as if the government has created a new incentive for them to carry on behaving as they are. Clearly, they are doingt he right thing. The Tories must be courting their votes. That's why these things are done, isn't it?

    But the point remains bedrooms are not being taxed. I have four bedrooms in my house of which two are not occupied, I haven't received a tax demand.

    And Labour was never proposing to tax death.

    The main point here is that the changes will benefit the thousands of feckless, baby-breeding scroungers that we are told are out there abusing the system. They have now been given further incentives to breed.


    Which just shows how getting the govewrnment involved in micro decisions is nonsense. Politicians and civil servants can never foresee all the unintended consequences of their actions. Get people in to work let them keep their money and let them look after themselves.

    But I thought that Labour had deliberately created a system so that people like Philpott would vote for them. Or is it just Tories that cannot "foresee all the unintended consequences of their actions"?

    Well as you point out the benefits system is a hodge podge of Con\Lab tinkering. It is so stuffed with contradictions, nightmare marginal tax rates, disincentives and perverse incentives and fraud opportunities that it's no wonder few understand it. The current political hooha is simply buggering around with the distribution of money. No government in the last 40 years has looked at it root and branch and asked what is it for and how de we manage it ?
    I'd say a major overhaul is long overdue.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    DavidL said:

    After the quangoes there is another layer of Labour placemen to be dismantled and professionalised, high paying charities are going to find themselves very vulnerable.

    Indeed:

    "After the crash, in his last two years in office, he started preparing for a new kind of Opposition. Labour might be turfed out of government, but it could carry on the fight through charities, quangos and think tanks. At one stage, Brown had a team in Downing Street devoted to appointments in public bodies, carefully building what would become a kind of government-in-exile. And if the Tories tried anything radical – like welfare reform – then Labour’s new fifth columnists would strike."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9633379/Gordon-Browns-secret-army-could-defeat-the-Coalitions-welfare-and-education-reforms.html
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    The weakness remains they have yet to make the kind of simplification of benefits that need to happen. IDS has made some progress but he still has a mountain to move.

    The 'mountain' he has to move is of course Osbrowne. At the heart of every master strategy despite his proven incompetence.
    The Sun said:

    NICK Clegg has stepped in TWICE to save Iain Duncan Smith’s Universal Credit welfare revolution from the chop, The Sun can reveal.

    Treasury officials have repeatedly tried to scrap the sweeping benefits overhaul or delay it until after the 2015 election.

    Chancellor George Osborne and his aides have deep fears over its spiralling £2billion costs and whether a huge new computer system will work.

    Deputy PM Mr Clegg first came to its rescue in 2010, then again late last year, Lib Dem sources have revealed.

    A senior Whitehall source said: “Nick is a huge backer.

    “He believes it is the most important thing the Coalition is doing to get people out of the benefits trap.

    “But Iain now has a big job to make sure the complex computer system works.”

    I trust you shall be effusive in your thanks to Clegg. ;^)



  • @Financier:

    "Forecourt sales of petrol have plunged by more than 20% in five years, the AA has said.

    The motoring organisation said official government figures showed 17 billion litres were sold last year compared to 22 billion in 2007.

    Diesel sales increased from 14 billion litres in 2007 to 16 billion litres in 2012."


    Given that Diesel cars are far more economical than those fuelled by petrol, this must surely mean that there are far more cars and vans on our roads which run on diesel as opposed to those run on petrol.

    That's amazing - at least to me it is - I would have thought that overall petrol outsold diesel fuelled vehicles by at least 2:1


    Petrol fuelled vehicles might possibly outsell diesel fuelled. The issue here is that a lorry (which will be diesel) will use more (it is heavier) and do more miles.
    This data related to forecourt sales and therefore largely excluded diesel sales to lorries (although not to vans to which I referred).

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,195

    tim said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Given that The decision was taken by Osborne to exempt pensioners from cuts and the bedroom tax and target the disabled instead he can't really whinge when he reaps the consequences.
    It's a deliberate strategy he thought through, looking at voter turnout - the PB Tories whining wont change that.

    I am still puzzled as to why Osbornew would want to create further incentives for the thousands, nay tens of thousands, of feckless, welfare scrounger wasters out there to breed more children. Does he really want to see disabled people evicted from their homes so that all those Philpott-like families can get the homes of their dreams at the expense of the taxpayer, even if those disabled people have not done the right thing?

    CB for first 2 kids only, £26k total cap (Still too high but never mind)
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Could be an interesting by-election campaign in SS:

    "The first candidate to throw his hat into the ring to become the next MP for South Shields has emerged. Former scaffolding boss John Robertson, 46, from Whitburn, says he will stand as an independent. He received a 40-week suspended prison sentence in 2011 after smashing his lorry into the headquarters of South Tyneside Homes. Mr Robertson caused almost £160,000 damage after driving his 22ft lorry into Strathmore House, at Jarrow’s Viking Industrial Estate, demolishing much of the building entrance. He said: “I intend to campaign on issues such as special educational needs and support for the elderly.”

    http://ukgeneralelection2015.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/could-independent-win-south-shields.html
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    then Labour’s new fifth columnists would strike."

    *titters*

    Tin foil hat time for the tea party tories and the buffoon Fraser Nelson.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    So now the "bedroom tax" is an incentive to have children is it? The spare room penalty is £10 a week. We established last night that the benefits for a low paid employee (£10Kpa) of a child would be in the order of £5000 a year and £10K for 2. That is the equivalent of £100 or £200 a week if you are lucky enough to get twins.

    Something really doesn't add up here does it? How does £10 a week make a difference and £100 a week not? Or is this as silly as the police parking story?
  • carlcarl Posts: 750

    DavidL said:

    After the quangoes there is another layer of Labour placemen to be dismantled and professionalised, high paying charities are going to find themselves very vulnerable.

    Indeed:

    " if the Tories tried anything radical – like welfare reform – then Labour’s new fifth columnists would strike."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9633379/Gordon-Browns-secret-army-could-defeat-the-Coalitions-welfare-and-education-reforms.html
    Quick, load up on tinned food and shotgun shells, there are Reds Under the Bed and they're coming to get you.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @journodave: You know, if the police were driving Osborne's car, it's not unusual for them to park as close to an entrance/exit as possible.

    Clearly Osborne should resign immediately
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    North America has lost one of its finest film critics:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22035330
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    "Topping" is precisely correct on the Ozzie parking non story.

    The security detail will determine the necessary protection for a cabinet minister and the appropriate parking required.

    The alternative is to potentially compromise the security of the mark for the sake of political correctness.

    Good picture story for the Mirror, looks bad for Ozzie but the reality is very different.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/local-news/labour-stalwarts-back-local-lad-1-5556639

    A RELATIVE political unknown has emerged as red-hot favourite to succeed David Miliband as the next MP for South Shields.

    The Labour Party locally has rallied in support of Coun Mark Walsh, representative for the town’s Horsley Hill ward - after council leader Iain Malcolm decided not to seek his party’s nomination.
    ...
    Coun Walsh added: “The message loud and clear is that the party wants a local candidate. It would be a great honour to be that candidate.”
  • carlcarl Posts: 750

    An astute point by Nick Cohen on today's YouGov -


    @MSmithsonPB Interesting, public agrees with Tories on welfare, but not backing them. Old story of liking Tory policies but not Tory Party

    Yep. As I pointed out yesterday, the public may like the idea of benefit cuts in the abstract, but they also want the Government to be fair and compassionate about it.

    The Tories, however, just look like they're enjoying it a little too much. It merely adds to their brand toxicity problem amongst almost everyone but core Rightwingers.

    Cameron and Osborne and co should be bending over backwards to sound humble and almost apologetic. "We have to do it, tough times, but we're ringing out every penny we can to protect them most vulnerable" sort of thing.

    Instead, they are revelling in a nasty and cynical "scroungers V the Rest" narrative that they have constructed. Many voters will recoil, even those who support benefit reform.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited April 2013
    Meanwhile, the borough’s Liberal Party is also considering putting forward a candidate.

    That candidate could be Dave Wood, the party’s leader.

    He said: “The question David Miliband has to answer is if he would have resigned if he’d won the Labour Party leadership.

    “I will be taking soundings before deciding whether I should stand. As a party we could also consider splitting the vote by supporting another party, as long as it is not from the right-wing lunatic fringe.

    “We could even support a suitable Labour candidate.”

    http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/local-news/rivals-to-contest-david-miliband-s-south-shields-seat-1-5537274
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Patrick Butler ‏@patrickjbutler

    "Some people need benefits, get over it. It doesn’t make them a scrounger": @scope boss @R_Hawkes responds to Osborne's #budget2013
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_93Dz8_8Das

    Clearly a bunch of 'scrounging' 'fifth column' communists. *rolleyes*




  • @JackW

    Agreed, Jack. And disabled people generally have too many rights anyway. I usually try to park in one of their bays, even if there are plenty of suitable alternatives available. Evens the score up a little.

    Good nite at the polls for UKIP. They're in fine fettle for the May elections. Is it true you may be standing?

    My racing tips will be along later. If the anticipation gets too much for you, ask Matron for some more sedatives.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    tim said:

    @JackW

    It's a shame Osborne didn't have a media chief with him who had knowledge of the inside of police vehicles really.

    It's a shame you haven't seen the inside of a police vehicle for the staggering amount of MODERATED posts you infest PB with.

  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    LOL! @tim
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    @Tim

    As we established last night child benefit is not even 1/10 of the money provided for a family on low earnings. Do you accept MikeL's (and everybody else's) figures yet?

    The reality is, as you well know, that the largest group affected by the spare room charge will be those who did have qualifying children when they were allocated the house and whose children have now left home. Almost all of these will be beyond child bearing age. It really is a silly argument.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    @Pong

    Interesting. It looks like a deal has been done between national party and CLP...the "controversial" local candidate suddenly not apply while another one no-one considered until yesterday is "approached" and encouraged to apply.
    But maybe it is just that CLP officers and backroom boys realized Malcolm couldn't pass the NEC test and to have a local candidate they had to switch to somebody else.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    @tim Yet no more remarkable than the tea party tories eagerness to condemn on a case involving perverting the course of justice. As they do for Mr Huhne and his motoring escapades.

    I can't see how that will be a problem down the line.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    This is great news for the SNP

    @faisalislam: In 8 year life HBoS close to having been the worst bank in the world. Much of the story buried till now. Follow @siobhankennedy4 's coverage
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    Scott_P said:

    This is great news for the SNP

    All very silly scott but just how big a scottish tory surge do you think it will produce this time?

    Gigantic or merely hilarious?

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "Despite the SNP's U-turn on membership, it is far from clear that Nato would be happy to welcome an independent Scotland without Trident. Expecting others to provide Scotland's....nuclear deterrent is not a morally defensible position."

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/herald-view/nuclear-deterrent-debate-heats-up.20709032
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I see the timfestation is growing : Porky, Carl.

    It's like a former gastro pub which has been overrun by pikeys and is now deserted.

  • The Mirror shark jumping story is reminiscent of The Sun and their campaign against Gordon Brown. When they taped his phoned apology to the dead soldier's mum, they overreached themselves and, in doing so, demonstrated their clear agenda and lost the right for any of their stories to be viewed objectively. Similarly, The Mirror has left the few who were in any doubt of its hate filled tribal agenda in no doubt now and has lost any remaining credibility in the field of politics.

    Predictably, the PB hard of thinking have leapt on the story, less predictably @MikeSmithson appears to have swallowed this bull hook line and sinker. His attacking another poster is "dispicable"(IIRC) for pointing out the flaws in the story beggars belief. I would hope that this morning, on sober reflection, he might reflect on the details of the story and the fairness of that post, assuming he too hasn't jumped a shark. I do hope not.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    @Scott_P

    Ah, HBOS and Sir James Crosby, a man who had absolutely nothing to do with Gordon Brown.


    "Until earlier on Wednesday, Sir James Crosby could count himself as a key economic adviser to Gordon Brown....

    If Paul Moore's allegations are true, it would mean Gordon Brown has been seeking advice on how to get the country out of the financial mess it is in from someone whose reckless behaviour was responsible, in part, for creating that mess....

    He quit HBOS in 2006, handing over the reins to 36-year-old high flyer Andy Hornby. He received a knighthood in the same year - reportedly on the personal recommendation of Gordon Brown - for services to the financial services industry."


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7883358.stm
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,286

    I'f we'd voted for AV in 2011 we might be facing a Con/UKIP coalition government in 2015!

    That would have got things changing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    @Tim

    The limitation on CB affects people like me. I lost my entitlement to 2 lots of CB at the start of the year. But I can afford it. I do not claim HB.

    I am not saying, if you search the whole country, you might not find a higher rate taxpayer formerly in receipt of CB who is also claiming HB and who will be affected by the spare bedroom charge but it would be a serious challenge.

    Cutting CB for people like me was yet another imposition on those people you keep claiming got this big tax break (I didn't qualify for that as it happens) and yet have been paying more tax after every budget of this Coalition not less. As they need to, to pay for the mess the last government made.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    DavidL said:

    @Tim

    As we established last night child benefit is not even 1/10 of the money provided for a family on low earnings. Do you accept MikeL's (and everybody else's) figures yet?

    Might as well get the bigger picture out again since we are talking about welfare.


    image

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2013
    Edited for duplication
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    On yesterday's results....
    UKIP very good everywhere (except in a Nottingham ward, maybe not demographically appealing).

    Labour well in Nottingham. Knowsley OK (decent to hold the marginal ward). Mediocre in Wigan.

    The worst for LibDems has passed. Now they are marginally up compared to lowest points reached when they entered the coalition. However, it was not enough to get back the Knowsley marginal ward and their previous Nottingham ward (where they didn't come close at all even with the Tory vote collapsing).

    Tories bad everywhere...oh well, polling 6% in Knowsley is actually decent for them.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    JonathanD said:

    @Scott_P

    Ah, HBOS and Sir James Crosby, a man who had absolutely nothing to do with Gordon Brown.


    "Until earlier on Wednesday, Sir James Crosby could count himself as a key economic adviser to Gordon Brown....

    If Paul Moore's allegations are true, it would mean Gordon Brown has been seeking advice on how to get the country out of the financial mess it is in from someone whose reckless behaviour was responsible, in part, for creating that mess....

    He quit HBOS in 2006, handing over the reins to 36-year-old high flyer Andy Hornby. He received a knighthood in the same year - reportedly on the personal recommendation of Gordon Brown - for services to the financial services industry."


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7883358.stm

    This is great news for the SNP

    LOL

  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    edited April 2013
    'Thinking from my tabloid days how excited I'd have been to get that Osborne pic. Who was driving? Did Osborne know? Who cares! Brilliant.' chrisdeerin

    An obvious front-pager for a tabloid, especially given the context.

    I doubt Osborne missed the disabled markings, other than him not giving them a thought anyway... though I blame the vehicle. Whenever anyone gets into one of those monster trucks they drive like a selfish arse (saw an interesting experiment on that a while back). Or that's why they get in them in the first place, dunno.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited April 2013
    Public service announcement: The widget now mostly works on Vanilla (for me at least, tried Firefox and Chrome) apart from an annoying thing where it jumps you to a new window if you try to use the "Next Favourite" links.

    https://github.com/edmundedgar/greasemonkey-widgets/raw/master/pb/pb_vanilla_edmund_widget.user.js

    If you're on Chrome you'll have to first download it to your desktop, then go to "Tools -> Extensions", then drag it into Chrome to tell it to install it.

    If anyone can figure out how to fix problem with the Next Favourite links let me know - I can stop it jumping you to a new window by adding the class "NoTop" to the link, but then one of the Vanilla scripts seems to intercept it and stop it doing anything at all.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    The Mirror shark jumping story is reminiscent of The Sun and their campaign against Gordon Brown. When they taped his phoned apology to the dead soldier's mum, they overreached themselves and, in doing so, demonstrated their clear agenda and lost the right for any of their stories to be viewed objectively. Similarly, The Mirror has left the few who were in any doubt of its hate filled tribal agenda in no doubt now and has lost any remaining credibility in the field of politics.

    Predictably, the PB hard of thinking have leapt on the story, less predictably @MikeSmithson appears to have swallowed this bull hook line and sinker. His attacking another poster is "dispicable"(IIRC) for pointing out the flaws in the story beggars belief. I would hope that this morning, on sober reflection, he might reflect on the details of the story and the fairness of that post, assuming he too hasn't jumped a shark. I do hope not.

    If even Owen Jones realises how stupid it is to try and blame Osborne, you know how bad it must be

    @OwenJones84: I don't buy outrage over George Osborne parking in a disabled parking spot. Let's focus on cuts hammering disabled people instead #baygate
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @Peter_the_Punter

    Sorry PtP but I disagree there.

    I have a young close relative with severe disabilities and the ignorance, rudeness and downright arrogance of some able bodied drivers is staggeing. The few disabled spaces make her life a little easier in a world too often stacked very badly against her.

    That said no resonable person would complain of the necessary security precautions required for Cabinet ministers.

    A little commonsense is required.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SNP U-turn on Nuclear Weapons...

    @PeteWishart: Could hardly sleep last night worrying about all these North Korean missiles that "could reach us". God bless you trident.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    Scott_P said:

    SNP U-turn on Nuclear Weapons...

    @PeteWishart: Could hardly sleep last night worrying about all these North Korean missiles that "could reach us". God bless you trident.

    ScottP misses obvious satire....

    *tears of laughter etc.*

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: Amazing to think Gordon Brown amid all of this appointed James Crosby to FSA board... And knighted him. His own regulator. Truly incredible.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Faisal Islam tweets: "Amazing to think Gordon Brown amid all of this appointed James Crosby to FSA board... And knighted him. His own regulator. Truly incredible."
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    UK new car registrations outperformed expectations in March, jumping almost 6% against a year ago, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) has said.

    The SMMT said March, when new number plates are released, was typically a strong month for car registrations.

    However, the increase this March is well above the almost 2% recorded at the same time last year.

    The UK figures defy the EU trend, which remains downwards.

    There were 394,806 registrations of cars with the new 13-plate, a 5.9% increase year-on-year, supported by strong demand for private registrations, which rose 7.8%.

    Private registrations accounted for 51.7% of the market, followed by fleet (43.5%) and business (4.8%).

    Volumes were at their highest since the 2010 Scrappage Incentive Scheme and the increase represents the 13th consecutive month of growth.

    However, registrations are still 12.1% below the 2007 pre-financial crisis market total.

    The March figures took total registrations for the year-to-date to 605,198, a 7.4% increase on 2012.

    SMMT interim chief executive Mike Baunton said that despite continuing concerns about the economy, "consistent monthly growth in the market is an encouraging sign of returning consumer confidence".

    He said that motorists had been attracted to forecourts by "new models and the latest technologies".

    Registrations of petrol-fuelled cars have risen by 12.1% so far in 2013, outselling diesels. This was spurred by growth in the small car and private sector markets, the SMMT reported.

    Registrations of alternatively fuelled cars dipped in the month, but rose by 2.9% in the first quarter.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22024659
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    South Tyneside Returing Officer believes he can hold the poll on May 2 if the writ is moved on April 15th

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10334136.Plans_for_a_new_South_Shields_MP/

    but the House of Commons says that polling day must between 15 to 19 working days (Saturdays also excluded) since the writ is issued.

    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp2004/rp04-038.pdf
    (pag 19)

    if I count 15 working days since April 15, I pass May 2
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    tim said:

    @JackW

    I see UKIP are embarrassed by EDL and BNP support.

    Some people could learn from that.

    Indeed so "tim"

    British jobs for British workers !!

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652

    Mr. Observer, bedrooms are not being taxed.

    Would Philpott have benefited from the changes? The answer is yes: he had a big family living in cramped conditions and needed a bigger house. Given that the consensus among right wing posters on here seems to be that Philpott is an extreme example of a large number of feckless, child-breeding benefit dependent scroungers, it seems as if the government has created a new incentive for them to carry on behaving as they are. Clearly, they are doingt he right thing. The Tories must be courting their votes. That's why these things are done, isn't it?

    But the point remains bedrooms are not being taxed. I have four bedrooms in my house of which two are not occupied, I haven't received a tax demand.

    And Labour was never proposing to tax death.

    The main point here is that the changes will benefit the thousands of feckless, baby-breeding scroungers that we are told are out there abusing the system. They have now been given further incentives to breed.


    Which just shows how getting the govewrnment involved in micro decisions is nonsense. Politicians and civil servants can never foresee all the unintended consequences of their actions. Get people in to work let them keep their money and let them look after themselves.

    But I thought that Labour had deliberately created a system so that people like Philpott would vote for them. Or is it just Tories that cannot "foresee all the unintended consequences of their actions"?

    Well as you point out the benefits system is a hodge podge of Con\Lab tinkering. It is so stuffed with contradictions, nightmare marginal tax rates, disincentives and perverse incentives and fraud opportunities that it's no wonder few understand it. The current political hooha is simply buggering around with the distribution of money. No government in the last 40 years has looked at it root and branch and asked what is it for and how de we manage it ?
    I'd say a major overhaul is long overdue.

    I could not agree more. Both Labour and Tory are skirting around the main issue: how does a society in which the top 10% get ever richer and more prosperous and the bottom 50% see their living standards perpetually decline, as the 40% in the middle stagnate, remain functioning over the longer term. It is not just welfare that needs reform. Inequality is bearable when most people feel better off. It becomes a huge problem when only an elite is seen to be benefiting.

    I am in Iceland at the moment. I had thought it was over th eworst and everyone was getting back to normal. But not a bit of it. The level of dissatisfaction and confusion here - in a country with 5% unemployment and no real poverty to speak of - is palpable. It's what everyone talks about.

  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited April 2013
    Ah, some real sense from the Banking Standards Commission regarding HBOS:

    "This was a traditional bank failure, pure and simple. It was a case of a bank pursuing traditional banking activities and pursuing them badly."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22027664

    Much the same could be said of Northern Rock, and to a large extent the Spanish, German and Irish banks which got into trouble. It wasn't City excesses, high bonuses, and 'casino' banking which was responsible for a large proportion of the problems, it was straightforward, old-fashioned, often theoretically asset-backed, lending, carried out incompetently.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,405
    Financier said:

    UK new car registrations outperformed expectations in March, jumping almost 6% against a year ago, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) has said.

    The SMMT said March, when new number plates are released, was typically a strong month for car registrations.

    However, the increase this March is well above the almost 2% recorded at the same time last year.

    The UK figures defy the EU trend, which remains downwards.

    There were 394,806 registrations of cars with the new 13-plate, a 5.9% increase year-on-year, supported by strong demand for private registrations, which rose 7.8%.

    Private registrations accounted for 51.7% of the market, followed by fleet (43.5%) and business (4.8%).

    Volumes were at their highest since the 2010 Scrappage Incentive Scheme and the increase represents the 13th consecutive month of growth.

    However, registrations are still 12.1% below the 2007 pre-financial crisis market total.

    The March figures took total registrations for the year-to-date to 605,198, a 7.4% increase on 2012.

    SMMT interim chief executive Mike Baunton said that despite continuing concerns about the economy, "consistent monthly growth in the market is an encouraging sign of returning consumer confidence".

    He said that motorists had been attracted to forecourts by "new models and the latest technologies".

    Registrations of petrol-fuelled cars have risen by 12.1% so far in 2013, outselling diesels. This was spurred by growth in the small car and private sector markets, the SMMT reported.

    Registrations of alternatively fuelled cars dipped in the month, but rose by 2.9% in the first quarter.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22024659



    I suspect this just means more pressure on the BOP. Most of the cars we're buying are small compacts which the UK doesn't really manufacture. We'll need to be shipping lots more Range Rovers to India and China to compensate.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    There were also elections yesterday for the newly established Crewe Parish council . Labour won every seat ( 20 ) with the Conservative vote collapsing in every ward , UKIP came 2nd in every ward but not close to winning and they only put up 1 candidate in each ward . Lib Dems put up candidates in 3 wards and matched the Conservative vote in those .
    If yesterdays results are typical of the coming May elections , we will see UKIP piling up lots of votes but not that many seats and Conservatives losing seats to all other parties .
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    @RichardNabavi Is your theory that incompetent bankers are going to be more popular with the public then merely greedy ones? A bold line to spin but it should prove entertaining. ;)
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    tim said:

    @DavidL

    The bedroom tax is roughly the same as the child benefit for another child.

    It is or it ain't: Less of the bolleaux Wee Timmy....

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    ". Evil chancellor not only fleeces the disabled, but he steals their parking spaces too. Except…

    1. It is a police car.
    2. Osborne isn’t driving it
    3. A police security officer is driving it
    4. He parked it there after dropping Osborne off to buy a McDonald’s."

    http://www.iaindale.com/posts/2013/04/04/and-this-is-what-political-journalism-has-been-reduced-to
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,405

    Mr. Observer, bedrooms are not being taxed.

    Would Philpott have benefited from the changes? The answer is yes: he had a big family living in cramped conditions and needed a bigger house. Given that the consensus among right wing posters on here seems to be that Philpott is an extreme example of a large number of feckless, child-breeding benefit dependent scroungers, it seems as if the government has created a new incentive for them to carry on behaving as they are. Clearly, they are doingt he right thing. The Tories must be courting their votes. That's why these things are done, isn't it?

    But the point remains bedrooms are not being taxed. I have four bedrooms in my house of which two are not occupied, I haven't received a tax demand.

    And Labour was never proposing to tax death.

    The main point here is that the changes will benefit the thousands of feckless, baby-breeding scroungers that we are told are out there abusing the system. They have now been given further incentives to breed.


    Which just shows how getting the govewrnment involved in micro decisions is nonsense. Politicians and civil servants can never foresee all the unintended consequences of their actions. Get people in to work let them keep their money and let them look after themselves.

    But I thought that Labour had deliberately created a system so that people like Philpott would vote for them. Or is it just Tories that cannot "foresee all the unintended consequences of their actions"?

    Well as you point out the benefits system is a hodge podge of Con\Lab tinkering. It is so stuffed with contradictions, nightmare marginal tax rates, disincentives and perverse incentives and fraud opportunities that it's no wonder few understand it. The current political hooha is simply buggering around with the distribution of money. No government in the last 40 years has looked at it root and branch and asked what is it for and how de we manage it ?
    I'd say a major overhaul is long overdue.

    I could not agree more. Both Labour and Tory are skirting around the main issue: how does a society in which the top 10% get ever richer and more prosperous and the bottom 50% see their living standards perpetually decline, as the 40% in the middle stagnate, remain functioning over the longer term. It is not just welfare that needs reform. Inequality is bearable when most people feel better off. It becomes a huge problem when only an elite is seen to be benefiting.

    I am in Iceland at the moment. I had thought it was over th eworst and everyone was getting back to normal. But not a bit of it. The level of dissatisfaction and confusion here - in a country with 5% unemployment and no real poverty to speak of - is palpable. It's what everyone talks about.

    I don't think there is one single "killer app" on this it's a combination of several things.

    1. The Western Economic model on which we have been brought up is no longer valid. It's no so much broken as overtaken by events - the impact of globalisation, the shift to Asia the tech revolution.
    2. The old mantras on free trade, trickle down, debt financing etc. don't stack up. Free trade works for the best economies, we aren't one of them, trickle down is now trickle away debt finance has been driven to destruction.
    3. Immigration only benefits the rich and the corporates, it hammer salaries and employment for the poor.
    4. Tax tourism is undermining national tax bases as companies and the wealthy shelter their assets and leave the middle to pick up the tab. In effect they are much like the banks in socialising the down side ( national liabilities ) but expoliting the upside.
    5. Hollowed out economies in the West where we have moved lots of business overseas for short term "benefit" in our offshoring craze but now are looking at the bills coming though for social welfare as we have a large number of people to fund one way or another.
    6. A broken finance system stopping a return to the old patterns of growth.

    Basically the UK needs some new thoughts on our predicament, thoughts which are specific to the UK situation. They should come from our own parties, but they're so mired in spin they'll do nothing . Instead they'll wait for the latest dumbass consultancy shtik to come from the US and then implement it here - badly.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @tim

    The security detail may have judged where to drop off Ozzie and then reverse into a bay. It is for them to determine these matters at that specific time.

    The same goes for security for the LotO and any others deemed at risk.
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420

    I am in Iceland at the moment. I had thought it was over th eworst and everyone was getting back to normal. But not a bit of it. The level of dissatisfaction and confusion here - in a country with 5% unemployment and no real poverty to speak of - is palpable. It's what everyone talks about.

    :tumbleweed:

    An economy the size (population and economy) of the London Borough of Lewisham? Considering that they have a larger land-mass (and lower population density) comparing Lewisham to Iceland may be wrong; as wrong as your SoWo comparison with the UK....

    :muppet-watch:
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,286
    @MarkSenior

    I think everyone is pretty much resigned to a Tory blood bath in the local elections. Libs had their two terrible years in 2011 and 2012, now its the Con's turn.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,195

    There were also elections yesterday for the newly established Crewe Parish council . Labour won every seat ( 20 ) with the Conservative vote collapsing in every ward , UKIP came 2nd in every ward but not close to winning and they only put up 1 candidate in each ward . Lib Dems put up candidates in 3 wards and matched the Conservative vote in those .
    If yesterdays results are typical of the coming May elections , we will see UKIP piling up lots of votes but not that many seats and Conservatives losing seats to all other parties .

    UKIP replacing CON as 2nd place in LAB seats and winning CON seats seems to be the trend. May 2nd will be a bloodbath for CON methinks.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013

    An astute point by Nick Cohen on today's YouGov -


    @MSmithsonPB Interesting, public agrees with Tories on welfare, but not backing them. Old story of liking Tory policies but not Tory Party

    Old indeed.

    You would think having IDS and Hague in cabinet might remind Cammie what happens when the tories lose all the 'detox' and become the nasty party again.

    That killed them for far longer than just one election.

    With Osbrowne and Crosby in charge of master strategy what could possibly go wrong?



  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    SeanT said:

    .

    The public is following politics with detached interest, akin to people keeping an eye on the tennis while making lunch. They note that someone scores a point, but it doen't affect what appears to be their settled intention to change the governhment at the first opportunity.

    Except that, when asked, the voters consistently prefer the Tories to run the country's economy, over and above Milliband and Balls.

    Only just.

    And didn't the Tories have a lead over Labour on the economy prior to the 1997 General Election?

    I'm sure Labour would love a comfortable lead on the economy, but I'd suggest they can win a majority without it. They just need enough people to trust them enough.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    @CarlottaVance: "Amazing to think Gordon Brown amid all of this appointed James Crosby to FSA board... And knighted him. His own regulator. Truly incredible."

    Not incredible at all when you realise that Brown needed the tax money flowing in from all this reckless banking. Why would he want to kill (or regulate) the golden goose?

    There were two groups at fault in the banking crisis: incompetent and greedy banks and the politicians/regulators who either encouraged the risk-taking or turned a blind eye to it.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    No... really?

    '70% of the country says they could not live on £53 a week - but rich people are more likely than poor people to think they could'

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/04/04/53-week-no-way/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    ". Evil chancellor not only fleeces the disabled, but he steals their parking spaces too. Except…

    1. It is a police car.
    2. Osborne isn’t driving it
    3. A police security officer is driving it
    4. He parked it there after dropping Osborne off to buy a McDonald’s."

    http://www.iaindale.com/posts/2013/04/04/and-this-is-what-political-journalism-has-been-reduced-to
  • JackW said:

    @Peter_the_Punter

    Sorry PtP but I disagree there.

    I have a young close relative with severe disabilities and the ignorance, rudeness and downright arrogance of some able bodied drivers is staggeing. The few disabled spaces make her life a little easier in a world too often stacked very badly against her.

    That said no resonable person would complain of the necessary security precautions required for Cabinet ministers.

    A little commonsense is required.

    Erm...I think you need to ask Matron to check your irony meter, Young Jack. Doesn't seem to be working this morning. ;-)
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    There were also elections yesterday for the newly established Crewe Parish council . Labour won every seat ( 20 ) with the Conservative vote collapsing in every ward , UKIP came 2nd in every ward but not close to winning and they only put up 1 candidate in each ward . Lib Dems put up candidates in 3 wards and matched the Conservative vote in those .
    If yesterdays results are typical of the coming May elections , we will see UKIP piling up lots of votes but not that many seats and Conservatives losing seats to all other parties .

    I think that the May elections will certainly show the same pattern. UKIP will take enough votes for the Tories to give Labour a huge number of gains, with the Lib Dems also making modest progress against the Tories, but not against Labour. The split in the right wing vote will be fatal for the Tories, just as the split in the left-wing vote in the 1980s was fatal for Labour.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Just to add if the Chelsea Tractor involved in Osborne's parking row was registered to him at the DVLA he is legally responsible for any PCN issued for a parking contravention,irrespective of who was driving.The Registered Keeper of the vehicle is the key.It is a shame no CEO was passing at the time to issue a PCN as there is little chance of having the decision overturned,unless a technical error,such as the wrong reg.recorded,was made or Osborne could prove his need for a BigMac was due to a medical emergency.
    So who is the RK of the offending vehicle?
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Mick_Pork said:

    An astute point by Nick Cohen on today's YouGov -


    @MSmithsonPB Interesting, public agrees with Tories on welfare, but not backing them. Old story of liking Tory policies but not Tory Party


    You would think having IDS or Hague in cabinet might remind Cammie what happens when the tories lose all the 'detox' and become the nasty party again.

    March ICM

    Workless people on benefits are for the most part unlucky rather than lazy
    Agree 50% Disagree 35%

    Makes you wonder how wise the Tory scroungers V strivers rhetoric really is when it comes to selling their benefit reforms.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @Peter_the_Punter

    I thought your racing tips were the irony of your posts !!
  • Just to add if the Chelsea Tractor involved in Osborne's parking row was registered to him at the DVLA he is legally responsible for any PCN issued for a parking contravention,irrespective of who was driving.The Registered Keeper of the vehicle is the key.It is a shame no CEO was passing at the time to issue a PCN as there is little chance of having the decision overturned,unless a technical error,such as the wrong reg.recorded,was made or Osborne could prove his need for a BigMac was due to a medical emergency.
    So who is the RK of the offending vehicle?

    Wasn't the 'bay' in a service area?
    If so, 2004 TMA doesn't apply

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    @tim - if you'd actually looked at the Mirror pictures (secomd one in the Mirror article) you'd see the entrance to the McDonald's is immediately next the parking bay - so it would appear Osborne was dropped there and his driver parked immediately next to where he'd been dropped off.

    To be clear - are you calling for the driver to be sacked?


  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,195

    Just to add if the Chelsea Tractor involved in Osborne's parking row was registered to him at the DVLA he is legally responsible for any PCN issued for a parking contravention,irrespective of who was driving.The Registered Keeper of the vehicle is the key.It is a shame no CEO was passing at the time to issue a PCN as there is little chance of having the decision overturned,unless a technical error,such as the wrong reg.recorded,was made or Osborne could prove his need for a BigMac was due to a medical emergency.
    So who is the RK of the offending vehicle?


    'Treasury' said it was a 'police vehicle', so I assume not Osborne.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    @carl The fops made the fatal mistake of posturing like a peacock over welfare and the bedroom tax. Cammie did actually know how to present an austerity budget and measures very early on in govt. when they were still leading. You don't look smug about cuts and imposing austerity, you do it somberly without any gimmicks or 'master strategies' and you present it as dreadful but unavoidable. They soon forgot that or more likely Osborne simply couldn't restrain himself.

    So now they are scrabbling about blowing frantically and desperately on every dog whistle they can see wondering why it isn't working for the centre and is boosting the kipper vote.

    They pandered to the kipper vote, they banged on about europe and immigration, they tried dog whistling on welfare and it's just not helping them.

    If May is a bloodbath then there will be no excuses left.

    Then it will become chum or party as they will have done everything Osborne's way and we will see the result.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited April 2013
    tim said:

    @GIN

    There's nothing inevitable about the UKIP surge.
    Cameron has played right into their hands and deserves all he gets.

    Help for UKIP

    1.Osborne's budget shatters reputation for competence
    2.Osborne's gay marriage detox Master Strategy
    3.Cameron's Europe speech
    4.Cameron's Duke Of York Immigration speech
    5.Cameron's refusal to withdraw the "fruitcakes,loonies,closet racists" comments
    6.Keep a halfwit candidate in place in Eastleigh

    If we're talking about the reasons for UKIP's rise, you shouldn't leave out:

    7. 13 years of Labour taking the WWC vote for granted
    8. "British Jobs for British Workers"

    IIRC A while back there was some polling on the %age of former Lab voters considering, or actually voting UKIP. Anyone have a link? I can't find it on google search.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Austin Mitchell condemns politicisation of Philpott story - or not:

    "Memo to Osborne. Mick Philpott was a Tory voter."
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    We are in the last hour available to submit nominations for CC elections.

    I hope we will see some detailed SoPN this afternoon to have an idea of the number of UKIP candidates fielded
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited April 2013
    I'm really shocked by the latest revelations in the Osborne story.

    Can it really be true that Osborne was buying a McDonalds? And worse still, (this bit is not for the faint-hearted), that he intended to eat the disgusting thing in the car?
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @harrison_umunna: Saw a hot guy checking me out, then I was all "that's a mirror" #stillfeelingthecrystal
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    SeanT said:

    @carl

    "March ICM

    Workless people on benefits are for the most part unlucky rather than lazy
    Agree 50% Disagree 35%

    Makes you wonder how wise the Tory scroungers V strivers rhetoric really is when it comes to selling their benefit reforms."

    The poll says the opposite of what you claim. It says that an astonishing 35% of the population ALREADY thinks these scroungers are just sponging.

    Add in another 30% of the population who, while they have sympathy for the workless, still feel we are paying way too much in benefits (see the popularity of the £26k benefits cap) and you have a solid majority in favour of rightwing welfare reform.

    Whether the Tories can capitalise on this is a different matter. My guess is that they will fail, and Ed Miliband will scrape a win in 2015; but by then the pressure - economic and political - for wholesale demolition of the welfare state will be so enormous it will be a Labour prime minister who has to tear down social democracy.

    It should, at least, be entertaining.

    When the welfare state has been dismantled, what happens then?

    If the only people that benefit are a small elite at the top then that is not sustainable. The lack of a welfare state works in Asian countries because there has never been one and almost everyone is seeing their living statndards improve. That people are getting hugely rich at the top does not really matter in those circumstances - as was shown in this country and the US up until the crash. What we do not know is what happens when the very wealthy continue to prosper, but nobody else does. Then the widening income gap becomes a real issue - especially when wealth has never been more visible. What is the right's answer to that? It seems to me that at some stage the better off are going to realise that a level of wealth redistribution is actually in their interests - just as they realised it before.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,195
    Carola said:

    No... really?

    '70% of the country says they could not live on £53 a week - but rich people are more likely than poor people to think they could'

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/04/04/53-week-no-way/

    I think thats probably true, doesn't smoking incidence increase as you head down the income scale. £53/week, ok you are having a miserable time but if you don't drink, smoke , go out socially and can buy books from the charity shop (Richer people more likely to read ?). Also richer people are probably more likely to have more possessions so you've got more to amuse yourself. Of course one of the sacrifices you'd have to make is to sell your car - if you're on a low income you'll perhaps be more likely to already use the bus, though perhaps you'll have a decent bike to use if you're a better earner.

    Theres a myriad of factors but particularly the added pressures of being a smoker in particular would quickly smash a £53/week budget - and that is less likely the better off you are ?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013

    Can it really be true that Osborne was buying a McDonalds? And worse still, (this bit is not for the faint-hearted), that he intended to eat the disgusting thing in the car?

    Can it really be that you have forgotten so quickly that combining the incompetent Osbrowne and his 'authentic' snacking habits always ends in disaster?

    image
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    @Tim

    Do you think a security detail consists of a driver only? Do you think there's any chance a protection officer dismounted the vehicle at the same time as GO and accompanied him into the building while the driver parked up?

    Take a wild guess.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @RichardNabavi

    Quite so Nabbers. The Chancellor needs to up his culinary fast food choices.

    He should determine to focus on top end pies with their rich ingredients that no politician should shy away from or indeed become fearful of being more involved in !!
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @TimGattITV: Met Police to cut their PR team from 150 to 100 people http://bit.ly/14IXfab
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,195
    SeanT said:

    I'm really shocked by the latest revelations in the Osborne story.

    Can it really be true that Osborne was buying a McDonalds? And worse still, (this bit is not for the faint-hearted), that he intended to eat the disgusting thing in the car?

    My reaction, too. Who the F eats a McDonalds if they can afford something else? My presumption is that maybe Osborne had his kids in the car. He does have kids, doesn't he? If they're like mine, they love McDs.
    Maybe he just enjoys shit food ? Everyone's got their habits ! Even I have a McD's occasionally maybe once every 2 or 3 years or so.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited April 2013
    Blair: I'd have done better than Gordon in 2010:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22039361

    He's probably right.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Just had my pay slip for March. I'm gonna keep it on my desk to see how much worse off I am next month now that Brutal George is stealing from normal people like me to give to his rich mates.

    Ed Balls reckons I'll be £75 down. We'll see.

    MickPork: how much are you anticipating being down due to these nasty benefit cuts? Are you going to be pushed off PB and into a job centre? Anything as fascisticly evil as that?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    tim said:

    @RichardNabavi.

    The confusing thing about this is that he appears to have washed off his spray tan before he went into MacDonalds

    https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/319053574250299392/photo/1

    Not confusing at all. His security detail would have instantly made him do so as a safety measure. Obviously. ;)

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Suppose that Osborne's attempts to reinflate the house price bubble are successful over the next couple of years.

    Does this create a feel-good factor for enough people that the Tories can credibly claim to be making progress on the economy by the next election, and at least retain their 2010 vote share?

    I'm beginning to think that it might - on the basis that I have found it absurdly easy to add to my mortgage borrowings, and this country is easily seduced by a house price bubble. It is also possible that the OBR have finally produced a set of forecasts that are too pessimistic, rather than too optimistic, which would give Osborne et al something to brag about come the election campaign.

    The last time I bought a burger from McDonald's was while attending NUS conference...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Thanks for the widget Edmund - marvellous stuff.

    The board looks much better now.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    I love a McDonald's on a Friday evening. Burger King used to be my favourite but it has gone terribly down hill. Of course, the kebab is the king of fast food, but you can't get a decent one outside North London so that is a treat for when I am visiting the ancestral home.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,195
    Anorak said:

    Blair: I'd have done better than Gordon in 2010:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22039361

    He's probably right.

    I think the contrast has gone on the BBC's cameras.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Fenster said:

    from normal people like me

    Since when were far right PB tories "normal people". You always get it wrong. Just look at Osbrowne's omnishambles budget when the idiots on here thought it was a great idea.
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @SamCoatesTimes: RT @ToryTreasury: Wonder whether it was Ed Miliband or Ed Balls who drafted this Gordon Brown quote appointing James Crosby? http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100407022214/http://hm-treasury.gov.uk/press_135_03.htm
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Anorak said:

    Blair: I'd have done better than Gordon in 2010:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22039361

    He's probably right.

    Depends - if he'd gone away and come back then yes.

    If he'd stayed on through the crash etc then probably not.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @SeanT

    Last year I was forced to avail myself of the "facilities" at MacDonald's and whilst I disdain their lack of attendants en-suite I was prevailed upon to purchase a coffee. To my surprise twas rather better than hot flavoured brown water !!

    My next step on the wild side might have to include a pot of Earl Grey at BurgerKing.

    ..........................

    Laters.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    tim said:


    Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 2 Apr
    Here is orange Osborne auditioning as the next chief exec of Tango

    Seems to be contagious:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22039361
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Tim

    The confusing thing about this is that he appears to have washed off his spray tan before he went into McDonalds'

    At least he didn't do a Chuka Harrison or is it Chuka Umunna and say he didn't want to rub shoulders with trash,did whatever his name work for Ratners earlier in his career?

    Strange no comments from you on this posh public schoolboy's vile comments.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,373
    JackW said:

    @SeanT

    Last year I was forced to avail myself of the "facilities" at MacDonald's and whilst I disdain their lack of attendants en-suite I was prevailed upon to purchase a coffee. To my surprise twas rather better than hot flavoured brown water !!

    My next step on the wild side might have to include a pot of Earl Grey at BurgerKing.

    ..........................

    Laters.

    Try eating a Big Nasty at Macdonalds.

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744
    Anorak said:

    Blair: I'd have done better than Gordon in 2010:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22039361

    He's probably right.

    Nah. Blair was tired in office by 2007 and had he not stood down, there would have been all-out civil war between Brown and him (and between their respective camps). Brown and his followers would have seen to that as they'd already pressured him into going and the Labour Party was happy to go along with the changeover after Blair spent all his political capital on Iraq.

    It's possible that had Brown been content to serve out the remainder of the parliament as Chancellor then Blair may have done better than Brown did but that's not a credible scenario.

    Ultimately, Labour would still have gone into the 2010 election with a trashed economy and those responsible for it at the top. Given the likelihood of how 2007-10 would have panned out had Blair tried to hang on to office, I could well have seen Labour going down by even more than they did under Brown.
This discussion has been closed.