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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A look at the betting options if Theresa May falls

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  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Blue_rog said:

    Thanks. I shall keep an eye, but I'm not expecting any surprises. The whole thing has been ridiculous. Publish a one-line Bill and get on with it.
    Then wait for the endless amendments and frustrations and preventative measures to stop triggering
    Do you think that will happen? I think Labour are keen to get on with it too...
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,678

    Looks like Angela will be 'biding her time' for quite a lot longer:

    Angela Merkel has been left out in the cold by President Trump, who may not meet Europe’s most prominent leader until a G7 summit in May.

    The German leader’s office has tried to set up a meeting and is struggling to establish links at other levels after being caught “completely by surprise” by Mr Trump’s victory in November.


    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/merkel-faces-long-wait-for-first-meeting-7pqthqdf0

    She should visit China.
    Theresa May plans China visit to bolster trade
    UK PM’s second bid to reach out globally after Washington trip

    Theresa May intends to visit China “relatively soon” to shore up Britain’s trading arrangements with the world’s second-largest economy, said UK and Chinese officials.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1800ee84-e173-11e6-8405-9e5580d6e5fb
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    Mortimer said:

    Looks like Angela will be 'biding her time' for quite a lot longer:

    Angela Merkel has been left out in the cold by President Trump, who may not meet Europe’s most prominent leader until a G7 summit in May.

    The German leader’s office has tried to set up a meeting and is struggling to establish links at other levels after being caught “completely by surprise” by Mr Trump’s victory in November.


    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/merkel-faces-long-wait-for-first-meeting-7pqthqdf0

    Awesome. Twiddling your thumps until you get a phone call is now called “strategic patience”
    Merkel is very much out in the cold now. Doubted within her own country, failing in leadership of Europe and now snubbed by her previously cherished ally.

    Time for her to go?
    So doubted domestically that her support has plunged upwards to a mere 59%.
    http://www.dw.com/en/support-for-2017-merkel-chancellorship-surges-survey/a-36700305
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,943

    Mortimer said:

    Looks like Angela will be 'biding her time' for quite a lot longer:

    Angela Merkel has been left out in the cold by President Trump, who may not meet Europe’s most prominent leader until a G7 summit in May.

    The German leader’s office has tried to set up a meeting and is struggling to establish links at other levels after being caught “completely by surprise” by Mr Trump’s victory in November.


    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/merkel-faces-long-wait-for-first-meeting-7pqthqdf0

    Awesome. Twiddling your thumps until you get a phone call is now called “strategic patience”
    Merkel is very much out in the cold now. Doubted within her own country, failing in leadership of Europe and now snubbed by her previously cherished ally.

    Time for her to go?
    So doubted domestically that her support has plunged upwards to a mere 59%.
    http://www.dw.com/en/support-for-2017-merkel-chancellorship-surges-survey/a-36700305
    You would have to be an unthinking liberal to not see the doubt present in the German electorate at the moment.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150

    Looks like Angela will be 'biding her time' for quite a lot longer:

    Angela Merkel has been left out in the cold by President Trump, who may not meet Europe’s most prominent leader until a G7 summit in May.

    The German leader’s office has tried to set up a meeting and is struggling to establish links at other levels after being caught “completely by surprise” by Mr Trump’s victory in November.


    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/merkel-faces-long-wait-for-first-meeting-7pqthqdf0

    She should visit China.
    Theresa May plans China visit to bolster trade
    UK PM’s second bid to reach out globally after Washington trip

    Theresa May intends to visit China “relatively soon” to shore up Britain’s trading arrangements with the world’s second-largest economy, said UK and Chinese officials.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1800ee84-e173-11e6-8405-9e5580d6e5fb
    Well, her too, obviously. May should visit everybody.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311
    "Andrew the operation of our nuclear deterrent is a highly sensitive security matter. As you well know it is government policy not to comment on security matters."

    Surely PM answers 1.01?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Mortimer said:

    Looks like Angela will be 'biding her time' for quite a lot longer:

    Angela Merkel has been left out in the cold by President Trump, who may not meet Europe’s most prominent leader until a G7 summit in May.

    The German leader’s office has tried to set up a meeting and is struggling to establish links at other levels after being caught “completely by surprise” by Mr Trump’s victory in November.


    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/merkel-faces-long-wait-for-first-meeting-7pqthqdf0

    Awesome. Twiddling your thumps until you get a phone call is now called “strategic patience”
    Merkel is very much out in the cold now. Doubted within her own country, failing in leadership of Europe and now snubbed by her previously cherished ally.

    Time for her to go?
    So doubted domestically that her support has plunged upwards to a mere 59%.
    http://www.dw.com/en/support-for-2017-merkel-chancellorship-surges-survey/a-36700305
    It's weird how the British right really have it in for Merkel.

    Looks like Angela will be 'biding her time' for quite a lot longer:

    Angela Merkel has been left out in the cold by President Trump, who may not meet Europe’s most prominent leader until a G7 summit in May.

    The German leader’s office has tried to set up a meeting and is struggling to establish links at other levels after being caught “completely by surprise” by Mr Trump’s victory in November.


    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/merkel-faces-long-wait-for-first-meeting-7pqthqdf0

    There's opportunity for May here, she just needs to get the tone right to be seen as a moderating influence on Trump and a 'friendly voice of reason' for him.
    Ah, the Blair approach. Good luck with that.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Charles said:

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have to get this ID from the driving license centre. I've never had to visit an American DMV, but it's a world-famous example of a horrible customer experience, generally advanced to show how bad the government is at running things.

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Or you can get them by post.
    I find the patronising tone of many white liberals extraordinary. This exposes it rather well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCVHB68cuY
    I was very impressed by footage of the caring, pacifist Left beating people up, and trashing shops, all in the name of Love Trumps Hate.
    The violence and hate spewing has been pretty dreadful. The irony of the small businessman whose limo was trashed/set ablaze was epic - he's a Muslim immigrant simply going about his dayjob - now facing a $70k loss. I've seen a couple of dozen assaults on Trumpers during the protests - its ugly stuff at times.

    A girl's hair was set on fire in one and luckily patted out before it caused serious injury. A guy was shot outside a Milo presentation at Uni Washington - others have been pepper sprayed, thumped, a journalist and cameraman from Rebel TV were kicked to the ground...

    The Left are losing their minds.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    rcs1000 said:

    A retreat from the TPP now gives Beijing, which has been negotiating its own trade blocs, a chance to fill a void. Since Trump's election, the Philippines, Singapore and Malaysia have shifted toward China's proposed Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, which would also reduce tariffs — without many of the standards put in place by Obama's plan — and redirect Asian trade China's way. Other nations in the region are likely to follow suit.

    "We don't have the choice America has. It's big enough that they can make a living selling things to themselves," said New Zealand Prime Minister Bill English on Monday. "We have to trade."


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/24/trump-kills-tpp-giving-china-its-first-big-win/?utm_term=.7b2f067f66d2

    The view in South East Asia very much appears to be 'Pity, but lets do a deal with China instead' - China was excluded from the TPP, at America's insistence - now its going to replace America.

    I think this is key. When you trade with someone, you become closer to them and you become - as a small country - dependent on them.

    By departing the Pacific, New Zealand and other countries become closer to China. America loses its influence.
    New Zealand will trade with Communist China but is certainly not going to become closer to it than the U.S. Trump's support for Taiwan also shows he has not entirely lost interest in the region
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,943
    John_M said:

    Mortimer said:

    Looks like Angela will be 'biding her time' for quite a lot longer:

    Angela Merkel has been left out in the cold by President Trump, who may not meet Europe’s most prominent leader until a G7 summit in May.

    The German leader’s office has tried to set up a meeting and is struggling to establish links at other levels after being caught “completely by surprise” by Mr Trump’s victory in November.


    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/merkel-faces-long-wait-for-first-meeting-7pqthqdf0

    Awesome. Twiddling your thumps until you get a phone call is now called “strategic patience”
    Merkel is very much out in the cold now. Doubted within her own country, failing in leadership of Europe and now snubbed by her previously cherished ally.

    Time for her to go?
    I think you're over-pitching it. She's doing decently well in the polls and she's essentially the undisputed hegemon of Europe - Trump is making her job easier, not harder. In the light of US threats, she'll be able to press for 'More Europe' with other EZ countries.
    Perhaps, but German foreign policy of the last 15 years is now in tatters.

    Germany doesn't necessarily want more Europe. Nor is comfortable with being the undisputed political leader of Europe.

    In short, her stubbornness towards what were once her two closest allies has shafted Germany geo-politically. Thank God we don't have coalitions more than once in a full moon.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    Looks like Angela will be 'biding her time' for quite a lot longer:

    Angela Merkel has been left out in the cold by President Trump, who may not meet Europe’s most prominent leader until a G7 summit in May.

    The German leader’s office has tried to set up a meeting and is struggling to establish links at other levels after being caught “completely by surprise” by Mr Trump’s victory in November.


    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/merkel-faces-long-wait-for-first-meeting-7pqthqdf0

    Awesome. Twiddling your thumps until you get a phone call is now called “strategic patience”
    Merkel is very much out in the cold now. Doubted within her own country, failing in leadership of Europe and now snubbed by her previously cherished ally.

    Time for her to go?
    So doubted domestically that her support has plunged upwards to a mere 59%.
    http://www.dw.com/en/support-for-2017-merkel-chancellorship-surges-survey/a-36700305
    It's weird how the British right really have it in for Merkel.

    Looks like Angela will be 'biding her time' for quite a lot longer:

    Angela Merkel has been left out in the cold by President Trump, who may not meet Europe’s most prominent leader until a G7 summit in May.

    The German leader’s office has tried to set up a meeting and is struggling to establish links at other levels after being caught “completely by surprise” by Mr Trump’s victory in November.


    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/merkel-faces-long-wait-for-first-meeting-7pqthqdf0

    There's opportunity for May here, she just needs to get the tone right to be seen as a moderating influence on Trump and a 'friendly voice of reason' for him.
    Ah, the Blair approach. Good luck with that.
    Not all of the British right. I admire her; there's no doubt that she's done a great job of defending German interests.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008

    rcs1000 said:

    A retreat from the TPP now gives Beijing, which has been negotiating its own trade blocs, a chance to fill a void. Since Trump's election, the Philippines, Singapore and Malaysia have shifted toward China's proposed Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, which would also reduce tariffs — without many of the standards put in place by Obama's plan — and redirect Asian trade China's way. Other nations in the region are likely to follow suit.

    "We don't have the choice America has. It's big enough that they can make a living selling things to themselves," said New Zealand Prime Minister Bill English on Monday. "We have to trade."


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/24/trump-kills-tpp-giving-china-its-first-big-win/?utm_term=.7b2f067f66d2

    The view in South East Asia very much appears to be 'Pity, but lets do a deal with China instead' - China was excluded from the TPP, at America's insistence - now its going to replace America.

    I think this is key. When you trade with someone, you become closer to them and you become - as a small country - dependent on them.

    By departing the Pacific, New Zealand and other countries become closer to China. America loses its influence.
    It strikes me as a short term tactical win among the electorate (lets not forget the Democrats were against it too) and a long term strategic blunder.

    In Indonesia Japan is helping build Jakarta's metro, China high speed rail, Korea sells TVs & washing machines. The US? Mineral exploitation.....Twenty years ago the US was looked up to. Not so much now.
    Obama supported TPP it was the likes of Sanders who opposed it
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    F1: also, Ross Brawn is Liberty's managing director (motorsports). Could be a good move.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    edited January 2017
    Jonathan said:


    It's weird how the British right really have it in for Merkel.

    You have to work quite hard to find the current numbers in *any* English-language article. They only report on her ratings when they go down. The liberal press want to do the same "moderates collapse as populists sweep Europe" narrative that the right do, only with tutting instead of chortling.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,943
    edited January 2017
    No sharp movements in the BF market yet...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Morning all.

    On the subject of France, there's an Ipsos poll (http://www.ipsos.fr/sites/default/files/doc_associe/notice_technique_enquete_gauche_-_ipsos_france_2_janvier_2017.pdf) that makes interesting reading.

    In short: Le Pen edges upwards, in both the first round (27% +1), and in the second round against Fillon (38% +2). Macron moves ahead of Fillon in the second round (54:46). And Farage's favoured candidate, Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, drops to 2%.

    The big question is now whether Bayrou will stand (which would practically ensure a Fillon vs Le Pen second round), or whether he does not and endorses one of Fillon or Macron.

    Bayrou has announced that he will be launching a book (Résolution Française) at the beginning of February, and will then make a decision. According to the French press, Fillon has been smothering Bayrou with love, and some are reporting that a deal has already been agreed.

    But we shall see. After having been an early backer, I think Macron looks marginally too short - Pen unless Bayrou endorses him. I also don't see the value in Le Pen given that she's 24 points behind Fillon in the second round.

    Even without Bayrou Macron is still 6% behind Fillon on that poll and 7% behind Le Pen
    I don't disagree. But I suspect a Bayrou endorsement would add 2% to Macron, probably at the expense of Fillon. Which makes it a pretty close race.
    Fillon would still be ahead of Macron even then and if Hollande endorses Macron as rumoured that would soon be offset
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    HYUFD said:
    Isn't the question what is constitutionally correct, rather than what is merely popular?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    John_M said:

    Mortimer said:

    Looks like Angela will be 'biding her time' for quite a lot longer:

    Angela Merkel has been left out in the cold by President Trump, who may not meet Europe’s most prominent leader until a G7 summit in May.

    The German leader’s office has tried to set up a meeting and is struggling to establish links at other levels after being caught “completely by surprise” by Mr Trump’s victory in November.


    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/merkel-faces-long-wait-for-first-meeting-7pqthqdf0

    Awesome. Twiddling your thumps until you get a phone call is now called “strategic patience”
    Merkel is very much out in the cold now. Doubted within her own country, failing in leadership of Europe and now snubbed by her previously cherished ally.

    Time for her to go?
    I think you're over-pitching it. She's doing decently well in the polls and she's essentially the undisputed hegemon of Europe - Trump is making her job easier, not harder. In the light of US threats, she'll be able to press for 'More Europe' with other EZ countries.
    The AfD is still a strong third
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    PlatoSaid said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Charles said:

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have to get this ID from the driving license centre. I've never had to visit an American DMV, but it's a world-famous example of a horrible customer experience, generally advanced to show how bad the government is at running things.

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Or you can get them by post.
    I find the patronising tone of many white liberals extraordinary. This exposes it rather well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCVHB68cuY
    I was very impressed by footage of the caring, pacifist Left beating people up, and trashing shops, all in the name of Love Trumps Hate.
    The violence and hate spewing has been pretty dreadful. The irony of the small businessman whose limo was trashed/set ablaze was epic - he's a Muslim immigrant simply going about his dayjob - now facing a $70k loss. I've seen a couple of dozen assaults on Trumpers during the protests - its ugly stuff at times.

    A girl's hair was set on fire in one and luckily patted out before it caused serious injury. A guy was shot outside a Milo presentation at Uni Washington - others have been pepper sprayed, thumped, a journalist and cameraman from Rebel TV were kicked to the ground...

    The Left are losing their minds.
    The more that they throw temper tantrums, the more voters they alienate.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    History
    24 January 1972: Japanese soldier Shoichi Yokoi was found hiding in a Guam jungle. He'd been there since 1945. https://t.co/J4uoYn5CH4
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    rkrkrk said:

    GeoffM said:

    rkrkrk said:

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    Denying ex-prisoners the vote, as well as prisoners. Yes, it all sounds reasonable and yet by coincidence these various measures always seem to favour the party proposing them.
    Other tricks include fake flyers saying their voting location had changed, giving the wrong deadline for registering to vote, calling people and telling them their candidate has already won on polling day so no need to show up, using voter caging to wrongly remove people from the electoral roll etc.
    You missed out dodgy bar charts from this rollcall of LibDem tactics.
    Not an exhaustive list... And I have no doubt Republicans will be ingenious in future. My personal theory is they will try to limit number of polling stations in cities... Maybe argue rural voters have to travel really far t vote to resources should go there....

    I also don't understand the reference to the bar chartabd lib Dems.. I think it's an in joke I am too new for.
    I'm sure @Sunil_Prasannan and @JohnLoony will help here
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Charles said:

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have to get this ID from the driving license centre. I've never had to visit an American DMV, but it's a world-famous example of a horrible customer experience, generally advanced to show how bad the government is at running things.

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Or you can get them by post.
    I find the patronising tone of many white liberals extraordinary. This exposes it rather well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCVHB68cuY
    I was very impressed by footage of the caring, pacifist Left beating people up, and trashing shops, all in the name of Love Trumps Hate.
    The violence and hate spewing has been pretty dreadful. The irony of the small businessman whose limo was trashed/set ablaze was epic - he's a Muslim immigrant simply going about his dayjob - now facing a $70k loss. I've seen a couple of dozen assaults on Trumpers during the protests - its ugly stuff at times.

    A girl's hair was set on fire in one and luckily patted out before it caused serious injury. A guy was shot outside a Milo presentation at Uni Washington - others have been pepper sprayed, thumped, a journalist and cameraman from Rebel TV were kicked to the ground...

    The Left are losing their minds.
    The more that they throw temper tantrums, the more voters they alienate.
    Trump does quite well despite his many temper tantrums.
  • Options

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have to get this ID from the driving license centre. I've never had to visit an American DMV, but it's a world-famous example of a horrible customer experience, generally advanced to show how bad the government is at running things.

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Precisely the point really. Anyone can make all sorts of objections against any rule. The fact remains that requiring I'D to vote is actually very sensible
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    rkrkrk said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Thanks. I shall keep an eye, but I'm not expecting any surprises. The whole thing has been ridiculous. Publish a one-line Bill and get on with it.
    Then wait for the endless amendments and frustrations and preventative measures to stop triggering
    Do you think that will happen? I think Labour are keen to get on with it too...
    Absolutely. Labour have a history of reneging of promises and the LD's just want to ignore the vote. I think that the PM should make it clear that amendments to the bill should be regarded as a confidence issue.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,018

    F1: and this happened yesterday, but when I was AFK.

    The poison dwarf has frolicked away from the races:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38723001

    I think i take a different view to you: F1 has a great deal to thank Bernie for, especially compared to some of the incompetents who have found themselves involved at the top of the sport (Balestre, anyone?)

    In his forty years he changed F1 from a marginal, unsafe sport to a popular, massively watched and relatively safe one.

    Yes, there have been reverses and mis-steps. But generally I'd argue he's done a good job. The future is far less certain now; hopefully Liberty will correct some of Bernie's mistakes whilst keeping the positives.

    As rallying shows, it's perfectly possible for a poplar sport to a marginal one (*). However that was probably also partly down to the Sébastien (Loeb and Ogier) hegemony.

    (*) Although slowly recovering in the last few years.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Live link to Supreme Court TV https://www.supremecourt.uk/live/court-01.html
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Mr. Jessop, Mosley deserves a lot of credit for the safety improvements.

    From when he started to today, Ecclestone's improved things a lot. But in the last decade or so things have gone backwards.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    Good day to release Council Tax rises, poor trading results and other bad news. Which organisation will be most shameless?
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,721
    Blue_rog said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Thanks. I shall keep an eye, but I'm not expecting any surprises. The whole thing has been ridiculous. Publish a one-line Bill and get on with it.
    Then wait for the endless amendments and frustrations and preventative measures to stop triggering
    Do you think that will happen? I think Labour are keen to get on with it too...
    Absolutely. Labour have a history of reneging of promises and the LD's just want to ignore the vote. I think that the PM should make it clear that amendments to the bill should be regarded as a confidence issue.
    That would be equivalent to ignoring Parliament.
  • Options
    PlatoSaid said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Charles said:

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have to get this ID from the driving license centre. I've never had to visit an American DMV, but it's a world-famous example of a horrible customer experience, generally advanced to show how bad the government is at running things.

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Or you can get them by post.
    I find the patronising tone of many white liberals extraordinary. This exposes it rather well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCVHB68cuY
    I was very impressed by footage of the caring, pacifist Left beating people up, and trashing shops, all in the name of Love Trumps Hate.
    The violence and hate spewing has been pretty dreadful. The irony of the small businessman whose limo was trashed/set ablaze was epic - he's a Muslim immigrant simply going about his dayjob - now facing a $70k loss. I've seen a couple of dozen assaults on Trumpers during the protests - its ugly stuff at times.

    A girl's hair was set on fire in one and luckily patted out before it caused serious injury. A guy was shot outside a Milo presentation at Uni Washington - others have been pepper sprayed, thumped, a journalist and cameraman from Rebel TV were kicked to the ground...

    The Left are losing their minds.

    Should we conclude from racist attacks on EU immigrants by members of the far right that the right collectively is losing its mind?

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,995

    F1: and this happened yesterday, but when I was AFK.

    The poison dwarf has frolicked away from the races:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38723001

    I think i take a different view to you: F1 has a great deal to thank Bernie for, especially compared to some of the incompetents who have found themselves involved at the top of the sport (Balestre, anyone?)

    In his forty years he changed F1 from a marginal, unsafe sport to a popular, massively watched and relatively safe one.

    Yes, there have been reverses and mis-steps. But generally I'd argue he's done a good job. The future is far less certain now; hopefully Liberty will correct some of Bernie's mistakes whilst keeping the positives.

    As rallying shows, it's perfectly possible for a poplar sport to a marginal one (*). However that was probably also partly down to the Sébastien (Loeb and Ogier) hegemony.

    (*) Although slowly recovering in the last few years.
    My inside info to date is that there will be somewhat of a new broom at F1 Management, although relationships seem good
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited January 2017
    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Charles said:

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have to get this ID from the driving license centre. I've never had to visit an American DMV, but it's a world-famous example of a horrible customer experience, generally advanced to show how bad the government is at running things.

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Or you can get them by post.
    I find the patronising tone of many white liberals extraordinary. This exposes it rather well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCVHB68cuY
    I was very impressed by footage of the caring, pacifist Left beating people up, and trashing shops, all in the name of Love Trumps Hate.
    The violence and hate spewing has been pretty dreadful. The irony of the small businessman whose limo was trashed/set ablaze was epic - he's a Muslim immigrant simply going about his dayjob - now facing a $70k loss. I've seen a couple of dozen assaults on Trumpers during the protests - its ugly stuff at times.

    A girl's hair was set on fire in one and luckily patted out before it caused serious injury. A guy was shot outside a Milo presentation at Uni Washington - others have been pepper sprayed, thumped, a journalist and cameraman from Rebel TV were kicked to the ground...

    The Left are losing their minds.
    The more that they throw temper tantrums, the more voters they alienate.
    Walking around dressed as giant vaginas just makes me cringe - and even worse are the sanitary pad messages. It's just gross and the sort of thing 4chan kids would suggest as embarrassing jokes, but some Lefties think is clever :astonished:
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,678
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Isn't the question what is constitutionally correct, rather than what is merely popular?
    That's today's question. Tomorrow's is how politicians navigate any gap between the two.....
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Blimey, it’s all kicking off outside the Supreme Court…

    https://twitter.com/owenbowcott/status/823819288456863744?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Charles said:

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have to get this ID from the driving license centre. I've never had to visit an American DMV, but it's a world-famous example of a horrible customer experience, generally advanced to show how bad the government is at running things.

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Or you can get them by post.
    I find the patronising tone of many white liberals extraordinary. This exposes it rather well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCVHB68cuY
    I was very impressed by footage of the caring, pacifist Left beating people up, and trashing shops, all in the name of Love Trumps Hate.
    The violence and hate spewing has been pretty dreadful. The irony of the small businessman whose limo was trashed/set ablaze was epic - he's a Muslim immigrant simply going about his dayjob - now facing a $70k loss. I've seen a couple of dozen assaults on Trumpers during the protests - its ugly stuff at times.

    A girl's hair was set on fire in one and luckily patted out before it caused serious injury. A guy was shot outside a Milo presentation at Uni Washington - others have been pepper sprayed, thumped, a journalist and cameraman from Rebel TV were kicked to the ground...

    The Left are losing their minds.
    The more that they throw temper tantrums, the more voters they alienate.
    Trump does quite well despite his many temper tantrums.
    For some reason, he's Teflon.
  • Options
    You do wonder if Sky have common sense. Their studio is full of plastic rubbish promoting their campaign against plastic bags etc but today of all days do they think this is a professional look when the day will be dominated with the Supreme Court with studio guests and interviews going on all day

    However I am 100% in agreement with the campaign and we have not used plastic bags for some years, they simply should have scheduled it for tomorrow
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Isn't the question what is constitutionally correct, rather than what is merely popular?

    Voters can always choose to vote for parties that wish to replace our centuries old Parliamentary system with one that puts full control in the hands of the executive.

  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited January 2017
    It's a bit boring.

    They should show last weeks best bits while we wait.

    Failing that, they could fill in with repeats of judge judy or something.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Charles said:

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have to get this ID from the driving license centre. I've never had to visit an American DMV, but it's a world-famous example of a horrible customer experience, generally advanced to show how bad the government is at running things.

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Or you can get them by post.
    I find the patronising tone of many white liberals extraordinary. This exposes it rather well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCVHB68cuY
    I was very impressed by footage of the caring, pacifist Left beating people up, and trashing shops, all in the name of Love Trumps Hate.
    The violence and hate spewing has been pretty dreadful. The irony of the small businessman whose limo was trashed/set ablaze was epic - he's a Muslim immigrant simply going about his dayjob - now facing a $70k loss. I've seen a couple of dozen assaults on Trumpers during the protests - its ugly stuff at times.

    A girl's hair was set on fire in one and luckily patted out before it caused serious injury. A guy was shot outside a Milo presentation at Uni Washington - others have been pepper sprayed, thumped, a journalist and cameraman from Rebel TV were kicked to the ground...

    The Left are losing their minds.
    The more that they throw temper tantrums, the more voters they alienate.
    Trump does quite well despite his many temper tantrums.
    For some reason, he's Teflon.
    Indeed. But to say the left throw tantrums is to miss the obvious.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have to get this ID from the driving license centre. I've never had to visit an American DMV, but it's a world-famous example of a horrible customer experience, generally advanced to show how bad the government is at running things.

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Precisely the point really. Anyone can make all sorts of objections against any rule. The fact remains that requiring I'D to vote is actually very sensible
    Well, security always involves a cost/benefit trade-off. The benefit here seems to be minimal since the thing it's supposed to prevent hardly ever happens, whereas the cost of disenfranchising large sections of the population is quite large.

    There's room for honest disagreement about exactly where the right trade-off is, and I think we all know that the parties will tend to support the procedure that works best for them - the correlation is too close to be coincidence. But if you imagine you didn't know which party would benefit, pretty much no reasonable person would choose the trade-off that Wisconsin has chosen.

    Anyhow where this came in is that Trump is telling obvious and outrageous lies to make people think that there's a threat that clearly doesn't exist. If it existed on the anything like the scale he's suggesting it would be easily detectable by taking samples of lists of people who voted and showing that a chunk of them illegal immigrants or whatever he's alleging.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    You do wonder if Sky have common sense. Their studio is full of plastic rubbish promoting their campaign against plastic bags etc but today of all days do they think this is a professional look when the day will be dominated with the Supreme Court with studio guests and interviews going on all day

    However I am 100% in agreement with the campaign and we have not used plastic bags for some years, they simply should have scheduled it for tomorrow

    Agreed, very odd timing.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,722
    Jonathan said:


    It's weird how the British right really have it in for Merkel.

    Merkel is maybe the last and most important bastion of liberalism. You can be s conservative as well as liberal but that faction is under a lot of stress at the moment from nationalist conservatism. Brexit and trump are defeats for them. The biggest political battles are within the conservative wing right now, rather than between right and left.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    @PlatoSaid, @Southam

    Is there any actual evidence that the frequency of attacks on anyone has increased?

    Or are we all just taking a couple of anecdotes and choosing to reinforce our prejudices?
  • Options
    BudGBudG Posts: 711
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Morning all.

    On the subject of France, there's an Ipsos poll (http://www.ipsos.fr/sites/default/files/doc_associe/notice_technique_enquete_gauche_-_ipsos_france_2_janvier_2017.pdf) that makes interesting reading.

    In short: Le Pen edges upwards, in both the first round (27% +1), and in the second round against Fillon (38% +2). Macron moves ahead of Fillon in the second round (54:46). And Farage's favoured candidate, Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, drops to 2%.

    The big question is now whether Bayrou will stand (which would practically ensure a Fillon vs Le Pen second round), or whether he does not and endorses one of Fillon or Macron.

    Bayrou has announced that he will be launching a book (Résolution Française) at the beginning of February, and will then make a decision. According to the French press, Fillon has been smothering Bayrou with love, and some are reporting that a deal has already been agreed.

    But we shall see. After having been an early backer, I think Macron looks marginally too short - Pen unless Bayrou endorses him. I also don't see the value in Le Pen given that she's 24 points behind Fillon in the second round.

    Even without Bayrou Macron is still 6% behind Fillon on that poll and 7% behind Le Pen
    I don't disagree. But I suspect a Bayrou endorsement would add 2% to Macron, probably at the expense of Fillon. Which makes it a pretty close race.
    And there is still 3 months to go. Bear in mind that a month ago the same polling company had Macron 11 points behind Fillon. Momentum is with Macron and his rise and whether he can make the final two is the biggest news story in the Presidential race.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    PlatoSaid said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Charles said:

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Or you can get them by post.
    I find the patronising tone of many white liberals extraordinary. This exposes it rather well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCVHB68cuY
    I was very impressed by footage of the caring, pacifist Left beating people up, and trashing shops, all in the name of Love Trumps Hate.
    The violence and hate spewing has been pretty dreadful. The irony of the small businessman whose limo was trashed/set ablaze was epic - he's a Muslim immigrant simply going about his dayjob - now facing a $70k loss. I've seen a couple of dozen assaults on Trumpers during the protests - its ugly stuff at times.

    A girl's hair was set on fire in one and luckily patted out before it caused serious injury. A guy was shot outside a Milo presentation at Uni Washington - others have been pepper sprayed, thumped, a journalist and cameraman from Rebel TV were kicked to the ground...

    The Left are losing their minds.
    The more that they throw temper tantrums, the more voters they alienate.
    Walking around dressed as giant vaginas just makes me cringe - and even worse are the sanitary pad messages. It's just gross and the sort of thing 4chan kids would suggest as embarrassing jokes, but some Lefties think is clever :astonished:
    I do wonder if some of these people are actually Republicans who've infiltrated the protests, in the same way that Gordon Liddy and his colleagues infiltrated the Democratic convention in 1972.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,678
    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Charles said:

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have to get this ID from the driving license centre. I've never had to visit an American DMV, but it's a world-famous example of a horrible customer experience, generally advanced to show how bad the government is at running things.

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Or you can get them by post.
    I find the patronising tone of many white liberals extraordinary. This exposes it rather well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCVHB68cuY
    I was very impressed by footage of the caring, pacifist Left beating people up, and trashing shops, all in the name of Love Trumps Hate.
    The violence and hate spewing has been pretty dreadful. The irony of the small businessman whose limo was trashed/set ablaze was epic - he's a Muslim immigrant simply going about his dayjob - now facing a $70k loss. I've seen a couple of dozen assaults on Trumpers during the protests - its ugly stuff at times.


    The Left are losing their minds.
    The more that they throw temper tantrums, the more voters they alienate.
    Trump does quite well despite his many temper tantrums.
    For some reason, he's Teflon.
    He's sincere. He's genuinely an arrogant braggart bully who believes his own publicity. People knew that when they voted for him. Clinton by contrast was an insincere skilful politician
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    edited January 2017
    I noticed that defrocked dancing Irish ex priest in his full regalia on an ITV clip.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/823821234345484288
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    @PlatoSaid, @Southam

    Is there any actual evidence that the frequency of attacks on anyone has increased?

    Or are we all just taking a couple of anecdotes and choosing to reinforce our prejudices?

    I have no idea. My point was that if you equate the actions of left-wing extremists with "the left" then, unless you are a complete hypocrite, you would have to equate the actions of far right extremists with "the right".

  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    rcs1000 said:

    @PlatoSaid, @Southam

    Is there any actual evidence that the frequency of attacks on anyone has increased?

    Or are we all just taking a couple of anecdotes and choosing to reinforce our prejudices?

    https://sotonpolitics.org/2016/10/20/did-brexit-increase-hate-crimes-probably-yes/
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150

    He's sincere. He's genuinely an arrogant braggart bully who believes his own publicity. People knew that when they voted for him. Clinton by contrast was an insincere skilful politician

    Not that skillful. She managed to cock up her primary with Obama by failing to work out where she had to win delegates to get the job, then having won the next primary against weak opposition she proceeded to make exactly the same mistake in the general.
  • Options
    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596



    Should we conclude from racist attacks on EU immigrants by members of the far right that the right collectively is losing its mind?

    the right in the US clearly has lost it's mind — they're falling into step behind Trump who is against anything the right have actually stood for in recent years - free trade, not supporting dodgy regimes (Russia), not blowing billions on prok/infrastructure, not picking winners etc. To say nothing of this whole alternative facts business. Almost the only thing Trump and the right appear to agree on is sabotaging obamacare.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    edited January 2017

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have to get this ID from the driving license centre. I've never had to visit an American DMV, but it's a world-famous example of a horrible customer experience, generally advanced to show how bad the government is at running things.

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Precisely the point really. Anyone can make all sorts of objections against any rule. The fact remains that requiring I'D to vote is actually very sensible
    Well, security always involves a cost/benefit trade-off. The benefit here seems to be minimal since the thing it's supposed to prevent hardly ever happens, whereas the cost of disenfranchising large sections of the population is quite large.

    There's room for honest disagreement about exactly where the right trade-off is, and I think we all know that the parties will tend to support the procedure that works best for them - the correlation is too close to be coincidence. But if you imagine you didn't know which party would benefit, pretty much no reasonable person would choose the trade-off that Wisconsin has chosen.

    Anyhow where this came in is that Trump is telling obvious and outrageous lies to make people think that there's a threat that clearly doesn't exist. If it existed on the anything like the scale he's suggesting it would be easily detectable by taking samples of lists of people who voted and showing that a chunk of them illegal immigrants or whatever he's alleging.

    There is no cost to the Republicans in preventing Democrats from voting. There is only an upside.
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    GeoffM said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Other tricks include fake flyers saying their voting location had changed, giving the wrong deadline for registering to vote, calling people and telling them their candidate has already won on polling day so no need to show up, using voter caging to wrongly remove people from the electoral roll etc.

    You missed out dodgy bar charts from this rollcall of LibDem tactics.
    Your hatred of the Lib Dems, Mr GeoffM, seems to be taking you to the borders of insanity. I expect you will say that this gratuitous offence is a joke.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Charles said:

    What, wanting only Americans to be allowed to vote in the American election? Sounds pretty reasonable. As, by the way, do those other terribly repressive measures such as denying prisoners the vote, requiring I'D to ensure people can only vote once, and such fraud preventing measures.
    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Or you can get them by post.
    I find the patronising tone of many white liberals extraordinary. This exposes it rather well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCVHB68cuY
    I was very impressed by footage of the caring, pacifist Left beating people up, and trashing shops, all in the name of Love Trumps Hate.
    The violence and hate spewing has been pretty dreadful. The irony of the small businessman whose limo was trashed/set ablaze was epic - he's a Muslim immigrant simply going about his dayjob - now facing a $70k loss. I've seen a couple of dozen assaults on Trumpers during the protests - its ugly stuff at times.


    The Left are losing their minds.
    The more that they throw temper tantrums, the more voters they alienate.
    Trump does quite well despite his many temper tantrums.
    For some reason, he's Teflon.
    He's sincere. He's genuinely an arrogant braggart bully who believes his own publicity. People knew that when they voted for him. Clinton by contrast was an insincere skilful politician
    Apparently 'authenticity' is a commodity that voters value, even if it means voting for an authentic arsehole.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Charles said:

    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.
    Or you can get them by post.
    I find the patronising tone of many white liberals extraordinary. This exposes it rather well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCVHB68cuY
    I was very impressed by footage of the caring, pacifist Left beating people up, and trashing shops, all in the name of Love Trumps Hate.
    snip

    A girl's hair was set on fire in one and luckily patted out before it caused serious injury. A guy was shot outside a Milo presentation at Uni Washington - others have been pepper sprayed, thumped, a journalist and cameraman from Rebel TV were kicked to the ground...

    The Left are losing their minds.
    The more that they throw temper tantrums, the more voters they alienate.
    Walking around dressed as giant vaginas just makes me cringe - and even worse are the sanitary pad messages. It's just gross and the sort of thing 4chan kids would suggest as embarrassing jokes, but some Lefties think is clever :astonished:
    I do wonder if some of these people are actually Republicans who've infiltrated the protests, in the same way that Gordon Liddy and his colleagues infiltrated the Democratic convention in 1972.
    James O'Keefe is doing a splendid job with Veritas. He's got undercover moles everywhere - brought down big DNC names like Creamer, delivered evidence to stop disruptions at Deploraball that's already resulted in an arrest - and now hints having footage of media collusion.

    Veritas is entirely donation driven. This sort of investigative journalism is sorely missing.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    edited January 2017
    Mr. Tokyo, indeed. Clinton's allocation of resources was textbook daftness.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Clipp, Lib Dem bar charts are an infamous running gag. It's not something specific to Mr. M.

    And it could be worse. At least they don't keep commissioning limestone tablets of inane waffle.
  • Options
    A fine early specimen of the genus Leucojum.

    https://twitter.com/seanspicer/status/300786700173598722
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Mr. (John) M, that may help Corbyn. A bit.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    edited January 2017


    There is no cost to the Republicans in preventing Democrats from voting. There is only an upside.

    I wonder if this will end up flipping around with self-driving cars and the gradual shift of the Dems from blue-collar to cosmopolitan. When nobody bothers getting a driving license any more, the main photo ID will be a passport.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,678
    Text of Supreme Court Judgment will appear here:

    https://www.supremecourt.uk/news/article-50-brexit-appeal.html
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,018

    Mr. Jessop, Mosley deserves a lot of credit for the safety improvements.

    (Snip)

    Moseley does indeed deserve some credit for the reaction post-1994 - although AIUI the critical situation of undriveable cars in 1994 was somewhat the FIA's fault as well.

    But read Prof. Watkins books to see how Bernie was the driving force for safety from the late 1970s onwards. Losing his friend Rindt deeply affected Bernie.

    From those early days, Bernie was willing to delay, or even cancel, a race if the medical representatives were not happy with the facilities. This forces circuits to upgrade their somewhat crude (to say the least) facilities.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    @PlatoSaid, @Southam

    Is there any actual evidence that the frequency of attacks on anyone has increased?

    Or are we all just taking a couple of anecdotes and choosing to reinforce our prejudices?

    I listened to the BBC Radio 4 show Moreover the other day. (The show that picks apart statistics and digs into the truth behind them). On race attacks there has been a significant increase in the number of enquiries about attacks, but no police evidence at all that actual attacks have increased since Brexit. Headlines, including in the Guardian, about increases were based on the enquiry surge. Hmm...
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    PClipp said:

    GeoffM said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Other tricks include fake flyers saying their voting location had changed, giving the wrong deadline for registering to vote, calling people and telling them their candidate has already won on polling day so no need to show up, using voter caging to wrongly remove people from the electoral roll etc.

    You missed out dodgy bar charts from this rollcall of LibDem tactics.
    Your hatred of the Lib Dems, Mr GeoffM, seems to be taking you to the borders of insanity. I expect you will say that this gratuitous offence is a joke.
    Oh FFS, you po-faced loon - LibDem bar-chart abuse is a long-standing element of their by-election play-book. You can hardly object when it makes your party a laughing stock.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:



    The specific measure they tend to take is to require people to show a government-issued ID to vote. See this in Wisconsin, for example. You generally have to get this ID from the driving license centre. I've never had to visit an American DMV, but it's a world-famous example of a horrible customer experience, generally advanced to show how bad the government is at running things.

    This obviously depresses the vote among people who don't drive, because they would have to go through this experience just to be able to vote with no other upside, whereas drivers were going to suffer through it anyway to be allowed to drive.

    Or you can get them by post.
    You can get a US driving license by post? Isn't that a recipe for ID fraud?
    @edmundintokyo I only know CA, not Wisconsin. Every state is different.

    @rcs1000 - In the 10+ years I've been dating/married my wife has renewed once in person and twice by post (I believe there is a limited number of times you can renew by post)
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    edited January 2017
    Charles said:


    @edmundintokyo I only know CA, not Wisconsin. Every state is different.

    CA doesn't require Voter ID silly, the Dems aren't interested in disenfranchizing their own voters.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    8-3
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    8-3

    For who , I have no sound
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Well no real suprise, and nothing really changes.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,943
    Pulpstar said:

    8-3

    For who , I have no sound
    Upheld.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,353

    8-3

    Sounds like it was upheld with three dissenting Leavers.
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    A50 Enabling Bill in 3, 2, 1....
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,353
    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    8-3

    For who , I have no sound
    Upheld.
    Let's hear about the devolved administrations.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,995

    8-3

    Sounds like it was upheld with three dissenting Leavers.
    It was!
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    Devolved powers dismissed -
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    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    Is the Def Sec safe on the back of his handling of the Trident mis-fire? Michael Fallon seemed a rather dull "safe" pair of hands but I am left wondering whether his time is looking short. he is one of the older cabinet ministers and I think a post A50 shuffle say in March/April will see him gone. he was in the Def Sec chair under Cameron and made some fairly hard attacks on S Khan's mayoral campaign, I suspect he will be carrying the can for sunday's slip up
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,943

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    8-3

    For who , I have no sound
    Upheld.
    Let's hear about the devolved administrations.
    Not legally compelled.

    Nicky isn't going to be happy!!! Ho ho ho.
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    Devolved powers dismissed -

    So a quick short bill it is then?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,236
    quelle surprise.

    I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but seems to be have been a complete waste of time. Publish a Bill and get on with it if it must be done.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Patrick said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @PlatoSaid, @Southam

    Is there any actual evidence that the frequency of attacks on anyone has increased?

    Or are we all just taking a couple of anecdotes and choosing to reinforce our prejudices?

    I listened to the BBC Radio 4 show Moreover the other day. (The show that picks apart statistics and digs into the truth behind them). On race attacks there has been a significant increase in the number of enquiries about attacks, but no police evidence at all that actual attacks have increased since Brexit. Headlines, including in the Guardian, about increases were based on the enquiry surge. Hmm...
    Exactly. It's like Rottweiler attacks; every so often there's a flurry of stories about them, and people assume something has happened to make them more common. But no, it's simply that it's newsworthy for a brief moment.

    The same is true, I suspect, of race related attacks post-Brexit, and assaults on Trump supporters.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    quelle surprise.

    I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but seems to be have been a complete waste of time. Publish a Bill and get on with it if it must be done.

    Following the rule of law is never a waste of time.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Poor old Nicola, what a shame...
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001

    quelle surprise.

    I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but seems to be have been a complete waste of time. Publish a Bill and get on with it if it must be done.

    It should have been tabled and passed with 48 hours of the referendum. (Or, at the very least, immediately after May took over.)
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    Devolved powers dismissed -

    So a quick short bill it is then?
    Government should be happy with this because any attempt to delay or stop the process will result in political suicide
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Lets watch the Nats explode in impotent fury....
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    130. Accordingly, the devolved legislatures do not have a parallel legislative
    competence in relation to withdrawal from the European Union
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:


    @edmundintokyo I only know CA, not Wisconsin. Every state is different.

    CA doesn't require Voter ID silly, the Dems aren't interested in disenfranchizing their own voters.
    I was talking about DMV processes, not voter ID
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311
    Feeling proud to be British atm.

    Feeling good enough not to fuck off and live somewhere else.

    Now let's have a quick vote in Parliament authorising A50 and let's move on.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,995
    Don’t HAVE to consult devolved Parliaments (etc) though.
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    TOPPING said:

    Feeling proud to be British atm.

    Feeling good enough not to fuck off and live somewhere else.

    Now let's have a quick vote in Parliament authorising A50 and let's move on.

    Agreed - bitter blow for Sturgeon
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,943
    edited January 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    quelle surprise.

    I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but seems to be have been a complete waste of time. Publish a Bill and get on with it if it must be done.

    It should have been tabled and passed with 48 hours of the referendum. (Or, at the very least, immediately after May took over.)
    To be honest, I think I'd have gone for it were I May.

    No political downside - if anything May has probably cemented a good third of 2015 Kippers within the Tory fold by continuing down this course
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The Daily Mail Europhile rating is evidently out of whack. Lord Carnwath was rated a five star Europhile in December yet was one of the dissenters.

    Or just possibly, the judges approached this independently of their views on the referendum?
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    quelle surprise.

    I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but seems to be have been a complete waste of time. Publish a Bill and get on with it if it must be done.

    Following the rule of law is never a waste of time.
    Agree. I was / am of the view that the Referndum Act and the result gave May the right to trigger A50 alone. Seems I was wrong. Parliament is sovereign. Fair dinkum. Get on with it.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001

    Is the Def Sec safe on the back of his handling of the Trident mis-fire? Michael Fallon seemed a rather dull "safe" pair of hands but I am left wondering whether his time is looking short. he is one of the older cabinet ministers and I think a post A50 shuffle say in March/April will see him gone. he was in the Def Sec chair under Cameron and made some fairly hard attacks on S Khan's mayoral campaign, I suspect he will be carrying the can for sunday's slip up

    I'm very suspicious of any politicians whose name matches this regex: fa[a-z]{2}on
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,943
    Of course, the delay has been quite useful too.

    Apart from a few keenos, most people have moved on and accepted the result of the ref.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    Have the odds for an early GE changed yet? House of Lords can't really afford to play silly buggers on Article 50.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    The Daily Mail Europhile rating is evidently out of whack. Lord Carnwath was rated a five star Europhile in December yet was one of the dissenters.

    Or just possibly, the judges approached this independently of their views on the referendum?

    @viewcode I can predict with 100% accuracy that the Daily Mail is wrong
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341

    TOPPING said:

    Feeling proud to be British atm.

    Feeling good enough not to fuck off and live somewhere else.

    Now let's have a quick vote in Parliament authorising A50 and let's move on.

    Agreed - bitter blow for Sturgeon
    Hardly - now she has incontrovertible evidence that the Scottish Parliament as it stands is toothless.
This discussion has been closed.