It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
I don't think there's anyone whose standard of personal morality doesn't fall short of the teachings of Jesus Christ. It's still a good thing that they want their children to be baptised.
Most people still do not have their children out of wedlock - and indeed there are still quite a few who abstain from pre-marital sex. In practice only the more devout of people tend to bother with a Christening service at all. This couple have fallen well below accepted Christian standards of morality - never attend church - yet suddenly decide to arrange this ceremony. Moreover my niece has never been Christened herself!
I know they will appreciate it if you write to them pointing all this out.
I will not be attending as it happens - but my niece's parents are perfectly aware of my views. I make no effort to hide them.
I am heartened that they have embraced such principles of Christian charity as to have invited you in the first place, therefore, knowing you to be a miserable old git.
just as I would not claim that all Leavers share Farage's, Gove's, Hoey's or Nuttall's opinions and points of view, please do not try to make out that all Remainers are idiots just because of one interview with one person.
As for Plato's link to a news item about a by-election in Oldham, have now recovered enough from the minor heart attack she gave me to be able to point out that it appears to be a council by-election not a parliamentary one.
To be fair to @Plato the headline was "by-election as local MP quits" so I can see why she made the mistake
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
I don't think there's anyone whose standard of personal morality doesn't fall short of the teachings of Jesus Christ. It's still a good thing that they want their children to be baptised.
Most people still do not have their children out of wedlock - and indeed there are still quite a few who abstain from pre-marital sex. In practice only the more devout of people tend to bother with a Christening service at all. This couple have fallen well below accepted Christian standards of morality - never attend church - yet suddenly decide to arrange this ceremony. Moreover my niece has never been Christened herself!
You're in competition with Prof Silver for "prat of the day" and quite possibly of substantially longer
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
Christening are about the child, not the parents
Charles, I enjoy reading the vast majority of your posts, but I have to say that in my view that is the most preposterous thing you have ever written.
Formal admission to any faith community should be limited to adults, who can make an informed choice before making that commitment.
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
I don't think there's anyone whose standard of personal morality doesn't fall short of the teachings of Jesus Christ. It's still a good thing that they want their children to be baptised.
Most people still do not have their children out of wedlock - and indeed there are still quite a few who abstain from pre-marital sex. In practice only the more devout of people tend to bother with a Christening service at all. This couple have fallen well below accepted Christian standards of morality - never attend church - yet suddenly decide to arrange this ceremony. Moreover my niece has never been Christened herself!
Even if the parents were complete rogues, that's no reason to deny the child a baptism (assuming one believes in infant baptism, as most clergy do). The Baptism is about the child, not the adults.
For that matter, if a complete rogue wished to attend a church service, he should be made welcome - as he might hear something that makes him change.
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
I don't think there's anyone whose standard of personal morality doesn't fall short of the teachings of Jesus Christ. It's still a good thing that they want their children to be baptised.
Most people still do not have their children out of wedlock - and indeed there are still quite a few who abstain from pre-marital sex. In practice only the more devout of people tend to bother with a Christening service at all. This couple have fallen well below accepted Christian standards of morality - never attend church - yet suddenly decide to arrange this ceremony. Moreover my niece has never been Christened herself!
I know they will appreciate it if you write to them pointing all this out.
I will not be attending as it happens - but my niece's parents are perfectly aware of my views. I make no effort to hide them.
I am heartened that they have embraced such principles of Christian charity as to have invited you in the first place, therefore, knowing you to be a miserable old git.
I don't think they hold that opinion.Moreover my views would have been very much the norm even in the mid-1960s. I really don't quite see why refusing to follow fashion like a crowd of sheep makes me 'a miserable old git'.
just as I would not claim that all Leavers share Farage's, Gove's, Hoey's or Nuttall's opinions and points of view, please do not try to make out that all Remainers are idiots just because of one interview with one person.
As for Plato's link to a news item about a by-election in Oldham, have now recovered enough from the minor heart attack she gave me to be able to point out that it appears to be a council by-election not a parliamentary one.
To be fair to @Plato the headline was "by-election as local MP quits" so I can see why she made the mistake
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
If you tell them that then I expect the invitation would soon be rescinded.
Or you could be charitable. Didn't someone quite famous say something about turning cheeks and forgiveness?
As it happens I shall not be attending anyway- I live in Norfolk and the event will be in Pembrokeshire making it too far to travel. Forgiveness and 'turning the other cheek' hardly arise because the couple have never shown the vaguest hint of being religious. It strikes me that the event has probably been arranged for a bit of social recognition rather than anything else. Personally , I have never believed in baptism of infants - christening should be a decision taken by the individual upon reaching the appropriate age.
you're a pompous prat and no credit to your religion
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
Christening are about the child, not the parents
Charles, I enjoy reading the vast majority of your posts, but I have to say that in my view that is the most preposterous thing you have ever written.
Formal admission to any faith community should be limited to adults, who can make an informed choice before making that commitment.
That's why you have a Confirmation of Faith when you are old enough to make your own decisions. In my view the Confirmation is more important than the Christening - but the simple fact is that the Christening is about welcoming the child into the body of the Church
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
I don't think there's anyone whose standard of personal morality doesn't fall short of the teachings of Jesus Christ. It's still a good thing that they want their children to be baptised.
Most people still do not have their children out of wedlock - and indeed there are still quite a few who abstain from pre-marital sex. In practice only the more devout of people tend to bother with a Christening service at all. This couple have fallen well below accepted Christian standards of morality - never attend church - yet suddenly decide to arrange this ceremony. Moreover my niece has never been Christened herself!
Even if the parents were complete rogues, that's no reason to deny the child a baptism (assuming one believes in infant baptism, as most clergy do). The Baptism is about the child, not the adults.
For that matter, if a complete rogue wished to attend a church service, he should be made welcome - as he might hear something that makes him change.
I don't actually believe in infant baptism anyway. In the Baptist church the ceremony only takes place when the individual has reached an age when he/she can decide for themselves.
OK I am now officially frightened. 8 days till it is up to Donald Trump to decide whether those troops stay in Poland.
Up to Donald Trump.
I think he will almost certainly do something.
The US military will try and convince him to just reduce the numbers, reduce the deployment period, or even just send them to Germany instead.
But, Trump may go further.
So, time to buy a generator and start stocking the bunker?
Putin probably wants something like a demilitarisation of the Baltic States and a lifting of sanctions.
He'll be annoyed that those states joined the EU and NATO in the first place, but probably recognises any overt military move on them would be a step too far. From the Russia point of view, the EU and NATO 'encouraging' Georgia and Ukraine to join them was a step too far.
Ultimately, he wants to be seen as a strong man and build a Greater Russia. But so does Trump, so, unless the Russians truly do have major shit on Trump, Trump won't want to look like a total weakling - or be portrayed as such - in US eyes either.
If Trump does start to look a threat to US interest, I expect Congress to act.
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
If you tell them that then I expect the invitation would soon be rescinded.
Or you could be charitable. Didn't someone quite famous say something about turning cheeks and forgiveness?
As it happens I shall not be attending anyway- I live in Norfolk and the event will be in Pembrokeshire making it too far to travel. Forgiveness and 'turning the other cheek' hardly arise because the couple have never shown the vaguest hint of being religious. ...
I believe "Pharisaical" is the name for that attitude. Does your copy of the NT omit the parable of the good Samaritan, or do you just not understand it? If these people never otherwise go to church, you are missing a once in a lifetime opportunity to introduce them to the teachings of our Lord, and you will therefore be sent to hell.
Mind you, so will I - I had my sons christened for purely social reasons. I did take on the job of PCC treasurer for 2 years in payment, though. The odd thing is, I am pretty certain everyone else on the PCC was an atheist too, with the possible exception of the vicar (and I'm not absolutely sure about him). A very English state of affairs.
OK I am now officially frightened. 8 days till it is up to Donald Trump to decide whether those troops stay in Poland.
Up to Donald Trump.
I think he will almost certainly do something.
The US military will try and convince him to just reduce the numbers, reduce the deployment period, or even just send them to Germany instead.
But, Trump may go further.
So, time to buy a generator and start stocking the bunker?
Putin probably wants something like a demilitarisation of the Baltic States and a lifting of sanctions.
He'll be annoyed that those states joined the EU and NATO in the first place, but probably recognises any overt military move on them would be a step too far. From the Russia point of view, the EU and NATO 'encouraging' Georgia and Ukraine to join them was a step too far.
Ultimately, he wants to be seen as a strong man and build a Greater Russia. But so does Trump, so, unless the Russians truly do have major shit on Trump, Trump won't want to look like a total weakling - or be portrayed as such - in US eyes either.
If Trump does start to look a threat to US interest, I expect Congress to act.
I would be more concerned about Tillerson's comments re China and the islands.
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
I don't think there's anyone whose standard of personal morality doesn't fall short of the teachings of Jesus Christ. It's still a good thing that they want their children to be baptised.
Most people still do not have their children out of wedlock - and indeed there are still quite a few who abstain from pre-marital sex. In practice only the more devout of people tend to bother with a Christening service at all. This couple have fallen well below accepted Christian standards of morality - never attend church - yet suddenly decide to arrange this ceremony. Moreover my niece has never been Christened herself!
Even if the parents were complete rogues, that's no reason to deny the child a baptism (assuming one believes in infant baptism, as most clergy do). The Baptism is about the child, not the adults.
That might just make a bit more sense if the parents were also taking active steps to get baptised themselves! They are doing no such thing.
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
Christening are about the child, not the parents
Charles, I enjoy reading the vast majority of your posts, but I have to say that in my view that is the most preposterous thing you have ever written.
Formal admission to any faith community should be limited to adults, who can make an informed choice before making that commitment.
That's why you have a Confirmation of Faith when you are old enough to make your own decisions. In my view the Confirmation is more important than the Christening - but the simple fact is that the Christening is about welcoming the child into the body of the Church
I was confirmed when I was 8 or 9. Not really old enough, IMO. By 16 I had 'escaped'.
OK I am now officially frightened. 8 days till it is up to Donald Trump to decide whether those troops stay in Poland.
Up to Donald Trump.
I think he will almost certainly do something.
The US military will try and convince him to just reduce the numbers, reduce the deployment period, or even just send them to Germany instead.
But, Trump may go further.
So, time to buy a generator and start stocking the bunker?
Putin probably wants something like a demilitarisation of the Baltic States and a lifting of sanctions.
He'll be annoyed that those states joined the EU and NATO in the first place, but probably recognises any overt military move on them would be a step too far. From the Russia point of view, the EU and NATO 'encouraging' Georgia and Ukraine to join them was a step too far.
Ultimately, he wants to be seen as a strong man and build a Greater Russia. But so does Trump, so, unless the Russians truly do have major shit on Trump, Trump won't want to look like a total weakling - or be portrayed as such - in US eyes either.
If Trump does start to look a threat to US interest, I expect Congress to act.
The 'positive' part, such as it is, could be Trump-Putin forming an anti-ISIS/Islamist extremist alliance.
Putin also sees himself as a defender of Christendom and traditional Western values (and Obama and his ilk dangerously "progressive", e.g. on gay rights) but I don't know quite how that'll square with Trump and the Republicans either.
OK I am now officially frightened. 8 days till it is up to Donald Trump to decide whether those troops stay in Poland.
Up to Donald Trump.
I think he will almost certainly do something.
The US military will try and convince him to just reduce the numbers, reduce the deployment period, or even just send them to Germany instead.
But, Trump may go further.
So, time to buy a generator and start stocking the bunker?
Putin probably wants something like a demilitarisation of the Baltic States and a lifting of sanctions.
He'll be annoyed that those states joined the EU and NATO in the first place, but probably recognises any overt military move on them would be a step too far. From the Russia point of view, the EU and NATO 'encouraging' Georgia and Ukraine to join them was a step too far.
Ultimately, he wants to be seen as a strong man and build a Greater Russia. But so does Trump, so, unless the Russians truly do have major shit on Trump, Trump won't want to look like a total weakling - or be portrayed as such - in US eyes either.
If Trump does start to look a threat to US interest, I expect Congress to act.
Trump wants to build a Greater Russia? Is he giving Alaska back?
When DOES Tillerson get confirmed (Or not) as SoS ?
@david_Herdson What did Tillerson say about the islands, Trump seems to be a big fan of the Republic of China, less so of the People's Republic of China.
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
es.
I don't think there's anyone whose standard of personal morality doesn't fall short of the teachings of Jesus Christ. It's still a good thing that they want their children to be baptised.
Most people still do not have their children out of wedlock - and indeed there are still quite a few who abstain from pre-marital sex. In practice only the more devout of people tend to bother with a Christening service at all. This couple have fallen well below accepted Christian standards of morality - never attend church - yet suddenly decide to arrange this ceremony. Moreover my niece has never been Christened herself!
Even if the parents were complete rogues, that's no reason to deny the child a baptism (assuming one believes in infant baptism, as most clergy do). The Baptism is about the child, not the adults.
For that matter, if a complete rogue wished to attend a church service, he should be made welcome - as he might hear something that makes him change.
I don't actually believe in infant baptism anyway. In the Baptist church the ceremony only takes place when the individual has reached an age when he/she can decide for themselves.
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
Christening are about the child, not the parents
Charles, I enjoy reading the vast majority of your posts, but I have to say that in my view that is the most preposterous thing you have ever written.
Formal admission to any faith community should be limited to adults, who can make an informed choice before making that commitment.
That's why you have a Confirmation of Faith when you are old enough to make your own decisions. In my view the Confirmation is more important than the Christening - but the simple fact is that the Christening is about welcoming the child into the body of the Church
I was confirmed when I was 8 or 9. Not really old enough, IMO. By 16 I had 'escaped'.
OK I am now officially frightened. 8 days till it is up to Donald Trump to decide whether those troops stay in Poland.
Up to Donald Trump.
I think he will almost certainly do something.
The US military will try and convince him to just reduce the numbers, reduce the deployment period, or even just send them to Germany instead.
But, Trump may go further.
So, time to buy a generator and start stocking the bunker?
Putin probably wants something like a demilitarisation of the Baltic States and a lifting of sanctions.
He'll be annoyed that those states joined the EU and NATO in the first place, but probably recognises any overt military move on them would be a step too far. From the Russia point of view, the EU and NATO 'encouraging' Georgia and Ukraine to join them was a step too far.
Ultimately, he wants to be seen as a strong man and build a Greater Russia. But so does Trump, so, unless the Russians truly do have major shit on Trump, Trump won't want to look like a total weakling - or be portrayed as such - in US eyes either.
If Trump does start to look a threat to US interest, I expect Congress to act.
Trump wants to build a Greater Russia? Is he giving Alaska back?
I think, being a good capitalist "giving" should be "selling" and he would probably be tempted to throw in Sarah Palin too.
OK I am now officially frightened. 8 days till it is up to Donald Trump to decide whether those troops stay in Poland.
Up to Donald Trump.
I think he will almost certainly do something.
The US military will try and convince him to just reduce the numbers, reduce the deployment period, or even just send them to Germany instead.
But, Trump may go further.
So, time to buy a generator and start stocking the bunker?
Putin probably wants something like a demilitarisation of the Baltic States and a lifting of sanctions.
He'll be annoyed that those states joined the EU and NATO in the first place, but probably recognises any overt military move on them would be a step too far. From the Russia point of view, the EU and NATO 'encouraging' Georgia and Ukraine to join them was a step too far.
Ultimately, he wants to be seen as a strong man and build a Greater Russia. But so does Trump, so, unless the Russians truly do have major shit on Trump, Trump won't want to look like a total weakling - or be portrayed as such - in US eyes either.
If Trump does start to look a threat to US interest, I expect Congress to act.
I would be more concerned about Tillerson's comments re China and the islands.
Trouble with both Russia and China is that they both calculate (probably correctly) that the West is all mouth and no trousers.
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
Christening are about the child, not the parents
Charles, I enjoy reading the vast majority of your posts, but I have to say that in my view that is the most preposterous thing you have ever written.
Formal admission to any faith community should be limited to adults, who can make an informed choice before making that commitment.
That's why you have a Confirmation of Faith when you are old enough to make your own decisions. In my view the Confirmation is more important than the Christening - but the simple fact is that the Christening is about welcoming the child into the body of the Church
We allow parents to instil their own values into their children, teach them morals and raise them as they would wish to (within reason) from infancy upwards. I don't see baptism as being any different to that. And the child always decides whether to follow through in adulthood or not, as they do in everything else.
What most object are really objecting to is that they don't particularly like the religion.
Mind you, so will I - I had my sons christened for purely social reasons. I did take on the job of PCC treasurer for 2 years in payment, though. The odd thing is, I am pretty certain everyone else on the PCC was an atheist too, with the possible exception of the vicar (and I'm not absolutely sure about him). A very English state of affairs.
Presumably the true believers are too busy being righteous to get involved with actually running things?
It seems to me that Professor Joshua Silver believed the media rumour that Amber Rudd was talking about requiring firms to compile lists of foreigners working for them as happens in the USA re: working visas etc. IMO that would be entirely acceptable.
I as a Landlord already have to check that people have a "Right to Rent", and check ids of foreigners, and store the information. So presumably the Prof thinks that the law compels me to be a hate criminal on pain of committing a criminal offence if I do not comply with the Law's directive.
Personally I think the Prof deserves disciplinary action, and boy does Oxford Uni have a lot of highly intelligent stupid people therein.
[snip].
While I think the referral stupid, unless it was done in the name of the university, I don't see a valid reason to discipline. Freedom of speech and action, and all that.
Whether the police have reason to prosecute for Wasting Police Time is another matter.
I used to take a position not unlike yours, David.
But I think that leaving people alone after this type of incident has not worked, and Oxford Uni must have conduct regs about staff bringing the University into disrepute (*) - and I think that creating untrue police records about non-existent hate crimes is quite serious, not least because it feeds in more poison when we desperately need to reverse the direction of travel.
The other half of the fault is down to the Constabulary, of course.
(*) I am not an expert on Oxford Uni conduct regulations and the private argot, but they do seem to have many more to apply to students than staff.
U.S. Intelligence Officials Reportedly Warn Israeli Counterparts Against Sharing Info With Trump Administration
Shared information could be leaked to Russia and onward to Iran, American officials implied to Israelis in closed meeting, saying Kremlin has 'leverages of pressure' over Trump, Ronen Bergman reports.
U.S. Intelligence Officials Reportedly Warn Israeli Counterparts Against Sharing Info With Trump Administration
Shared information could be leaked to Russia and onward to Iran, American officials implied to Israelis in closed meeting, saying Kremlin has 'leverages of pressure' over Trump, Ronen Bergman reports.
U.S. Intelligence Officials Reportedly Warn Israeli Counterparts Against Sharing Info With Trump Administration
Shared information could be leaked to Russia and onward to Iran, American officials implied to Israelis in closed meeting, saying Kremlin has 'leverages of pressure' over Trump, Ronen Bergman reports.
Mind you, so will I - I had my sons christened for purely social reasons. I did take on the job of PCC treasurer for 2 years in payment, though. The odd thing is, I am pretty certain everyone else on the PCC was an atheist too, with the possible exception of the vicar (and I'm not absolutely sure about him). A very English state of affairs.
Presumably the true believers are too busy being righteous to get involved with actually running things?
THE Sons of Mary seldom bother, for they have inherited that good part; But the Sons of Martha favour their Mother of the careful soul and the troubled heart. And because she lost her temper once, and because she was rude to the Lord her Guest, Her Sons must wait upon Mary's Sons, world without end, reprieve, or rest.
Hargreaves Lansdown think the bull market will continue through 2017.
AEP reports that "Bank of America calls it the Icarus Trade. Global stock markets will surge by another 10pc in a parabolic 'melt-up' this quarter, akin to the final stage of the dotcom boom."
We allow parents to instil their own values into their children, teach them morals and raise them as they would wish to (within reason) from infancy upwards. I don't see baptism as being any different to that. And the child always decides whether to follow through in adulthood or not, as they do in everything else.
What most object are really objecting to is that they don't particularly like the religion.
That's fair enough. But I genuinely find (albeit as an atheist observer) "Christ claims you as his own" to be a bit creepy.
When DOES Tillerson get confirmed (Or not) as SoS ?
@david_Herdson What did Tillerson say about the islands, Trump seems to be a big fan of the Republic of China, less so of the People's Republic of China.
Tillerson stated that China should stop building/reinforcing the artificial islands and reefs, and that the US should deny China access to those already in existence.
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
Christening are about the child, not the parents
Charles, I enjoy reading the vast majority of your posts, but I have to say that in my view that is the most preposterous thing you have ever written.
Formal admission to any faith community should be limited to adults, who can make an informed choice before making that commitment.
That's why you have a Confirmation of Faith when you are old enough to make your own decisions. In my view the Confirmation is more important than the Christening - but the simple fact is that the Christening is about welcoming the child into the body of the Church
Given social and parental pressure around confirmations, and the age of participants, I'm not wholly convinced that decisions are always made independently.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
Society has yet to develop a recognised civil ceremony equivalent to a Christening yet people still want to have a social occasion to celebrate the birth and the new child (and why not? the Church has been vey adept over the centuries in marrying ceremony with religion precisely because people *want* ceremony).
But from your comment, it doesn't sound as if you know much of Christian principles, the core of which is forgiveness.
I have often been accused of being more right wing than most Tories when it comes to matters of personal morality - and I have to accept that I feel a certain affinity with the views of Ann Widdecombe and even Mary Whitehouse on this issue.I hate the personal hypocrisy of it all! I am utterly appalled when the Church agrees to marry couples who have been cohabiting - quite often with a kid or two in tow. Were I a church minister or vicar I would decline to marry them. At the end of the day the Church either has beliefs and principles or it does not. Putting the aside in this way totally undermines its credibility.
I completely agree that the Church of England has lost its way in terms of what it believes. But that said, Christ's message is about forgiveness and morality and belief are not the same thing. You might also want to reflect that in refusing to marry a couple with children or who have been cohabiting, you are ensuring that they continue to live 'in sin' (apart from being absurd). What would Jesus do?
It's not a big surprise views are changing given the experience of life people have. Thirty years ago divorce was kept very quiet, as was single parenting. My son is in a class of 28 only two children of which are living with both birth parents, and this is in the rural shires.
The stigma of divorce has really gone by the 60s. Havig kids out of wedlock is a different matter - and remains far from being universally accepted.
Oddly here in the Philippines, a place where when I was courting my wife 20-odd years ago, young ladies were still chaperoned by aunties, almost the opposite is now true. This is the only country in the world where divorce is still illegal, a view which is widely supported, and yet having children out of wedlock now hardly raises an eyebrow even in the most rural of communities.
That is very interesting and obviously reflects a different culture. As it happens , I have been taken aback in just the last hour to receive an invitation from my niece and her husband to the double Christening of their two children - boys of 3 years and 6 months old.. The couple are not churchgoers and their first child was born out of wedlock more than a year before their marriage. To be honest , I find it highly hypocritical that they wish to go down this road when their previous conduct reveals how far their standards of personal morality fall short of Christian principles.
Society has yet to develop a recognised civil ceremony equivalent to a Christening yet people still want to have a social occasion to celebrate the birth and the new child (and why not? the Church has been vey adept over the centuries in marrying ceremony with religion precisely because people *want* ceremony).
But from your comment, it doesn't sound as if you know much of Christian principles, the core of which is forgiveness.
I have often been accused of being more right wing than most Tories when it comes to matters of personal morality - and I have to accept that I feel a certain affinity with the views of Ann Widdecombe and even Mary Whitehouse on this issue.I hate the personal hypocrisy of it all! I am utterly appalled when the Church agrees to marry couples who have been cohabiting - quite often with a kid or two in tow. Were I a church minister or vicar I would decline to marry them. At the end of the day the Church either has beliefs and principles or it does not. Putting the aside in this way totally undermines its credibility.
When DOES Tillerson get confirmed (Or not) as SoS ?
@david_Herdson What did Tillerson say about the islands, Trump seems to be a big fan of the Republic of China, less so of the People's Republic of China.
U.S. Intelligence Officials Reportedly Warn Israeli Counterparts Against Sharing Info With Trump Administration
Shared information could be leaked to Russia and onward to Iran, American officials implied to Israelis in closed meeting, saying Kremlin has 'leverages of pressure' over Trump, Ronen Bergman reports.
The CIA tying to drive a wedge between Israel and Trump?
Certainly driving a wedge between the CIA and the whitehouse, one suspects there is going to be some serious housekeeping in CIA senior management when Dan Coates gets into the saddle.
I note that Charles Lyell, the 3rd Baron Lyell, has died. As he was one of the conservative elected peers that means we will be having a by-election in the House of Lords.
It seems to me that Professor Joshua Silver believed the media rumour that Amber Rudd was talking about requiring firms to compile lists of foreigners working for them as happens in the USA re: working visas etc. IMO that would be entirely acceptable.
I as a Landlord already have to check that people have a "Right to Rent", and check ids of foreigners, and store the information. So presumably the Prof thinks that the law compels me to be a hate criminal on pain of committing a criminal offence if I do not comply with the Law's directive.
Personally I think the Prof deserves disciplinary action, and boy does Oxford Uni have a lot of highly intelligent stupid people therein.
[snip].
While I think the referral stupid, unless it was done in the name of the university, I don't see a valid reason to discipline. Freedom of speech and action, and all that.
Whether the police have reason to prosecute for Wasting Police Time is another matter.
I used to take a position not unlike yours, David.
But I think that leaving people alone after this type of incident has not worked, and Oxford Uni must have conduct regs about staff bringing the University into disrepute (*) - and I think that creating untrue police records about non-existent hate crimes is quite serious, not least because it feeds in more poison when we desperately need to reverse the direction of travel.
The other half of the fault is down to the Constabulary, of course.
(*) I am not an expert on Oxford Uni conduct regulations and the private argot, but they do seem to have many more to apply to students than staff.
I understand where you're coming from but I'd be worried about the potential misuse of those same regulations against those who speak out, even in a private capacity, in a way which offends the majority view.
I have often been accused of being more right wing than most Tories when it comes to matters of personal morality - and I have to accept that I feel a certain affinity with the views of Ann Widdecombe and even Mary Whitehouse on this issue.I hate the personal hypocrisy of it all! I am utterly appalled when the Church agrees to marry couples who have been cohabiting - quite often with a kid or two in tow. Were I a church minister or vicar I would decline to marry them. At the end of the day the Church either has beliefs and principles or it does not. Putting the aside in this way totally undermines its credibility.
You might reflect on Luke 7:36-50
Is that the chapter where Jesus recovers from poor midterm polling to win an unexpected overall majority?
Given social and parental pressure around confirmations, and the age of participants, I'm not wholly convinced that decisions are always made independently.
That cuts both ways, some friends of ours in the UK who are moderately regular church goers and always willing to help out at church events, and who are (sometimes against the odds) managing to keep their children going as well, inquired about confirmation for their kids. The vicar told them the kids would need to go to both Sunday School and Bible study for six months in preparation for the confirmation. This was clearly never going to fly with the kids, and the parents thought it was a ridiculous imposition as well. Four less bums on pews at the weekend, anyone would think there wasn't an attendance problem at most churches.
He was one of my British Politics Lecturers at Essex Univ in the mid 80's (when he would also have taught Speaker Bercow) He was a very interesting and erudite man and was always happy to answer dumb questions from Undergraduates with patience !
IIRC he and Ivor Crew also did a lot of the ground work for the SDP and the viability as to whether there was "room" in a FPTP system for a 3 rd party.
With Peter Franks running the Soviet Politics course it was great time to study politics at Essex
(And it isn't just the library that looks like a dustbin- the core of the university was obviously designed by acid head with a fetish for concrete !! )
it was a politically based complaint imho.. which is even worse. Neil should have asked him about his political allegiance.
Prof Silver should have been charged with wasting police time.
The prof silver next target for reporting a politician to the police could be the PM,he think's mrs may has said she wants to expel all foriegn doctors .
Given social and parental pressure around confirmations, and the age of participants, I'm not wholly convinced that decisions are always made independently.
That cuts both ways, some friends of ours in the UK who are moderately regular church goers and always willing to help out at church events, and who are (sometimes against the odds) managing to keep their children going as well, inquired about confirmation for their kids. The vicar told them the kids would need to go to both Sunday School and Bible study for six months in preparation for the confirmation. This was clearly never going to fly with the kids, and the parents thought it was a ridiculous imposition as well. Four less bums on pews at the weekend, anyone would think there wasn't an attendance problem at most churches.
Good grief, I agree with a vicar. It hardly seems unreasonable that people should have some level of knowledge about Christianity before committing themselves as confirmed followers. If he said wait until the kids turn 16 I would agree even more!
Given social and parental pressure around confirmations, and the age of participants, I'm not wholly convinced that decisions are always made independently.
That cuts both ways, some friends of ours in the UK who are moderately regular church goers and always willing to help out at church events, and who are (sometimes against the odds) managing to keep their children going as well, inquired about confirmation for their kids. The vicar told them the kids would need to go to both Sunday School and Bible study for six months in preparation for the confirmation. This was clearly never going to fly with the kids, and the parents thought it was a ridiculous imposition as well. Four less bums on pews at the weekend, anyone would think there wasn't an attendance problem at most churches.
Good grief, I agree with a vicar. It hardly seems unreasonable that people should have some level of knowledge about Christianity before committing themselves as confirmed followers. If he said wait until the kids turn 16 I would agree even more!
and yet attendance is at an all time low. What is the ecclesiastical version of realpolitik
I have often been accused of being more right wing than most Tories when it comes to matters of personal morality - and I have to accept that I feel a certain affinity with the views of Ann Widdecombe and even Mary Whitehouse on this issue.I hate the personal hypocrisy of it all! I am utterly appalled when the Church agrees to marry couples who have been cohabiting - quite often with a kid or two in tow. Were I a church minister or vicar I would decline to marry them. At the end of the day the Church either has beliefs and principles or it does not. Putting the aside in this way totally undermines its credibility.
You might reflect on Luke 7:36-50
Is that the chapter where Jesus recovers from poor midterm polling to win an unexpected overall majority?
No, I think it's the one where he announced ‘I will be greatest jobs president God ever created’...
@GuardianHeather: Labour has agreed an all-woman shortlist - Gillian Troughton, Barbara Cannon and Rachel Holliday - for Copeland by-election, I understand.
Given social and parental pressure around confirmations, and the age of participants, I'm not wholly convinced that decisions are always made independently.
That cuts both ways, some friends of ours in the UK who are moderately regular church goers and always willing to help out at church events, and who are (sometimes against the odds) managing to keep their children going as well, inquired about confirmation for their kids. The vicar told them the kids would need to go to both Sunday School and Bible study for six months in preparation for the confirmation. This was clearly never going to fly with the kids, and the parents thought it was a ridiculous imposition as well. Four less bums on pews at the weekend, anyone would think there wasn't an attendance problem at most churches.
It's pretty standard to undergo study before confirmation.
Given social and parental pressure around confirmations, and the age of participants, I'm not wholly convinced that decisions are always made independently.
That cuts both ways, some friends of ours in the UK who are moderately regular church goers and always willing to help out at church events, and who are (sometimes against the odds) managing to keep their children going as well, inquired about confirmation for their kids. The vicar told them the kids would need to go to both Sunday School and Bible study for six months in preparation for the confirmation. This was clearly never going to fly with the kids, and the parents thought it was a ridiculous imposition as well. Four less bums on pews at the weekend, anyone would think there wasn't an attendance problem at most churches.
It's pretty standard to undergo study before confirmation.
Given social and parental pressure around confirmations, and the age of participants, I'm not wholly convinced that decisions are always made independently.
That cuts both ways, some friends of ours in the UK who are moderately regular church goers and always willing to help out at church events, and who are (sometimes against the odds) managing to keep their children going as well, inquired about confirmation for their kids. The vicar told them the kids would need to go to both Sunday School and Bible study for six months in preparation for the confirmation. This was clearly never going to fly with the kids, and the parents thought it was a ridiculous imposition as well. Four less bums on pews at the weekend, anyone would think there wasn't an attendance problem at most churches.
Good grief, I agree with a vicar. It hardly seems unreasonable that people should have some level of knowledge about Christianity before committing themselves as confirmed followers. If he said wait until the kids turn 16 I would agree even more!
and yet attendance is at an all time low. What is the ecclesiastical version of realpolitik
Given social and parental pressure around confirmations, and the age of participants, I'm not wholly convinced that decisions are always made independently.
That cuts both ways, some friends of ours in the UK who are moderately regular church goers and always willing to help out at church events, and who are (sometimes against the odds) managing to keep their children going as well, inquired about confirmation for their kids. The vicar told them the kids would need to go to both Sunday School and Bible study for six months in preparation for the confirmation. This was clearly never going to fly with the kids, and the parents thought it was a ridiculous imposition as well. Four less bums on pews at the weekend, anyone would think there wasn't an attendance problem at most churches.
Good grief, I agree with a vicar. It hardly seems unreasonable that people should have some level of knowledge about Christianity before committing themselves as confirmed followers. If he said wait until the kids turn 16 I would agree even more!
and yet attendance is at an all time low. What is the ecclesiastical version of realpolitik
I have often been accused of being more right wing than most Tories when it comes to matters of personal morality - and I have to accept that I feel a certain affinity with the views of Ann Widdecombe and even Mary Whitehouse on this issue.I hate the personal hypocrisy of it all! I am utterly appalled when the Church agrees to marry couples who have been cohabiting - quite often with a kid or two in tow. Were I a church minister or vicar I would decline to marry them. At the end of the day the Church either has beliefs and principles or it does not. Putting the aside in this way totally undermines its credibility.
You might reflect on Luke 7:36-50
Is that the chapter where Jesus recovers from poor midterm polling to win an unexpected overall majority?
No, I think it's the one where he announced ‘I will be greatest jobs president God ever created’...
I thought it was the passage where Jesus declared "Man's greatest joy is to slaughter his enemies, to drive them before him, and to listen to the lamentations of their women."
Given social and parental pressure around confirmations, and the age of participants, I'm not wholly convinced that decisions are always made independently.
That cuts both ways, some friends of ours in the UK who are moderately regular church goers and always willing to help out at church events, and who are (sometimes against the odds) managing to keep their children going as well, inquired about confirmation for their kids. The vicar told them the kids would need to go to both Sunday School and Bible study for six months in preparation for the confirmation. This was clearly never going to fly with the kids, and the parents thought it was a ridiculous imposition as well. Four less bums on pews at the weekend, anyone would think there wasn't an attendance problem at most churches.
It's pretty standard to undergo study before confirmation.
Isn't this why it's becoming more common to admit children to Holy Communion before they have been confirmed? (But they still need to be prepared for the admission, which is a recognised ceremony in itself.)
Otherwise, it would be a bit like a fan expecting to play for the team without going through the training faff.
I don't get this. Why is the triggering of A50 by end-March not the default assumption? I can only assume that the traders think that there is a fairly substantial chance that it won't happen, which is, frankly, nuts. There is certainly a risk that it won't happen according to the government's timescale but the chance of it not happening at all (or even after end-June) are tiny.
@GuardianHeather: Labour has agreed an all-woman shortlist - Gillian Troughton, Barbara Cannon and Rachel Holliday - for Copeland by-election, I understand.
All three of those look like reasonable choices:
"Mrs Cannon, of Harrington, has spent 25 years in local politics, including a 16-year stint on Cumbria County Council, and currently sits on Allerdale Borough Council where she is a former deputy leader. "
"Gillian Troughton – Cumbria county councillor who lives in Whitehaven."
Racel Holliday: "A Whitehaven health campaigner who was named Cumbria Woman of the Year for fighting to set up a hostel for homeless veterans in Egremont"
@GuardianHeather: Labour has agreed an all-woman shortlist - Gillian Troughton, Barbara Cannon and Rachel Holliday - for Copeland by-election, I understand.
One hopes that Holliday or Troughton gets it, just in order to be able to say: "Cannon: you're fired!"
Seriously though, apart from the rumour that Holliday is Corbyn's preferred candidate, what do we know of their views on nuclear power, nuclear weapons and the general Corbyn project? It's at times like this that Andrea came into his own.
@GuardianHeather: Labour has agreed an all-woman shortlist - Gillian Troughton, Barbara Cannon and Rachel Holliday - for Copeland by-election, I understand.
All three of those look like reasonable choices:
"Mrs Cannon, of Harrington, has spent 25 years in local politics, including a 16-year stint on Cumbria County Council, and currently sits on Allerdale Borough Council where she is a former deputy leader. "
"Gillian Troughton – Cumbria county councillor who lives in Whitehaven."
Racel Holliday: "A Whitehaven health campaigner who was named Cumbria Woman of the Year for fighting to set up a hostel for homeless veterans in Egremont"
Seriously though, apart from the rumour that Holliday is Corbyn's preferred candidate, what do we know of their views on nuclear power, nuclear weapons and the general Corbyn project? It's at times like this that Andrea came into his own.
They are all pro-nuclear power, which is probably good enough. Rachel Holliday seems the most Corbynite of the three, and the only one of the three without much political experience.
Comments
Formal admission to any faith community should be limited to adults, who can make an informed choice before making that commitment.
For that matter, if a complete rogue wished to attend a church service, he should be made welcome - as he might hear something that makes him change.
Here is the original Mhairi Black column. The previous link was to a report quoting it:
http://www.thenational.scot/comment/14871916.Mhairi_Black__We_must_learn_lessons_from_history_and_speak_out_against_the_Tories__ugly_xenophobia/
Not that I was a critic of Streep
He'll be annoyed that those states joined the EU and NATO in the first place, but probably recognises any overt military move on them would be a step too far. From the Russia point of view, the EU and NATO 'encouraging' Georgia and Ukraine to join them was a step too far.
Ultimately, he wants to be seen as a strong man and build a Greater Russia. But so does Trump, so, unless the Russians truly do have major shit on Trump, Trump won't want to look like a total weakling - or be portrayed as such - in US eyes either.
If Trump does start to look a threat to US interest, I expect Congress to act.
Mind you, so will I - I had my sons christened for purely social reasons. I did take on the job of PCC treasurer for 2 years in payment, though. The odd thing is, I am pretty certain everyone else on the PCC was an atheist too, with the possible exception of the vicar (and I'm not absolutely sure about him). A very English state of affairs.
Putin also sees himself as a defender of Christendom and traditional Western values (and Obama and his ilk dangerously "progressive", e.g. on gay rights) but I don't know quite how that'll square with Trump and the Republicans either.
@david_Herdson What did Tillerson say about the islands, Trump seems to be a big fan of the Republic of China, less so of the People's Republic of China.
What worries me is they try and call our bluff.
What most object are really objecting to is that they don't particularly like the religion.
But I think that leaving people alone after this type of incident has not worked, and Oxford Uni must have conduct regs about staff bringing the University into disrepute (*) - and I think that creating untrue police records about non-existent hate crimes is quite serious, not least because it feeds in more poison when we desperately need to reverse the direction of travel.
The other half of the fault is down to the Constabulary, of course.
(*) I am not an expert on Oxford Uni conduct regulations and the private argot, but they do seem to have many more to apply to students than staff.
U.S. Intelligence Officials Reportedly Warn Israeli Counterparts Against Sharing Info With Trump Administration
Shared information could be leaked to Russia and onward to Iran, American officials implied to Israelis in closed meeting, saying Kremlin has 'leverages of pressure' over Trump, Ronen Bergman reports.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.764711?v=74A9A2AC6F00E892BC72B10692D09D07
The CIA tying to drive a wedge between Israel and Trump?
....to other central London offices.
Have they not thought that it might be useful to be somewhere a bit more, er, rural?
*banned, I know.
But the Sons of Martha favour their Mother of the careful soul and the troubled heart.
And because she lost her temper once, and because she was rude to the Lord her Guest,
Her Sons must wait upon Mary's Sons, world without end, reprieve, or rest.
Payback for all that dissing of Jeb
Boston? Weston-super-Mare? Mansfield?
https://twitter.com/SteveKopack/status/819575078190989312
According to Wikipedia the barony is now extinct.
He was one of my British Politics Lecturers at Essex Univ in the mid 80's (when he would also have taught Speaker Bercow) He was a very interesting and erudite man and was always happy to answer dumb questions from Undergraduates with patience !
IIRC he and Ivor Crew also did a lot of the ground work for the SDP and the viability as to whether there was "room" in a FPTP system for a 3 rd party.
With Peter Franks running the Soviet Politics course it was great time to study politics at Essex
(And it isn't just the library that looks like a dustbin- the core of the university was obviously designed by acid head with a fetish for concrete !! )
www.businessinsider.com/marine-le-pen-is-in-new-york-2017-1
The man is a prat.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/12/church-of-england-attendance-falls-below-million-first-time
Seems Nottinghamshire Police have been taken over by sjw's
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/36775398?client=ms-android-oneplus
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-nottinghamshire-36401447
Don't you dare wolf whistle at a sexy goth in Nottinghamshire.
RIP Professor King.
Just seen Rogue One. Shan't spoil it, so my non-spoilery thoughts are that there was a little too much cheese in places, but the ending was very good.
Otherwise, it would be a bit like a fan expecting to play for the team without going through the training faff.
Good evening, everybody.
"Mrs Cannon, of Harrington, has spent 25 years in local politics, including a 16-year stint on Cumbria County Council, and currently sits on Allerdale Borough Council where she is a former deputy leader. "
"Gillian Troughton – Cumbria county councillor who lives in Whitehaven."
Racel Holliday: "A Whitehaven health campaigner who was named Cumbria Woman of the Year for fighting to set up a hostel for homeless veterans in Egremont"
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/latest/Hospital-campaigner-and-councillor-enter-race-to-become-MP-796db60f-0626-4c90-827c-e1205603d792-ds
http://labourlist.org/2017/01/exclusive-labours-longlist-for-copeland-by-election-revealed/
http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/Two-more-local-faces-throw-their-hats-in-the-ring-to-be-Labours-candidate-in-Copeland-by-election-b5038166-f8b3-4e0d-8697-73fa4bf49070-ds
Or is the sun not yet over the yardarm?
Seriously though, apart from the rumour that Holliday is Corbyn's preferred candidate, what do we know of their views on nuclear power, nuclear weapons and the general Corbyn project? It's at times like this that Andrea came into his own.
Good evening, Miss JGP.
Mr. Herdson, I quite agree. Reminds me a little of blithe assumptions and unwarranted confidence of a Remain vote by the stock market on polling day.