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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Team Corbyn makes a generous New Year gift to Tim Farron given

SystemSystem Posts: 12,264
edited January 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Team Corbyn makes a generous New Year gift to Tim Farron given that 68% of current LAB voters think it is wrong to leave

Corbyn's new year gift to Tim Farron given that 68% of current LAB voters think BREXIT wrong (YouGov)https://t.co/j6UEazIaBp

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,564
    Wrong to vote to leave, as opposed to wrong to want to leave after the vote?
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    I'm glad Tim Farron got a present because he sure as hell ain't going to do anything major under his own steam.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited January 2017
    Y0kel said:

    I'm glad Tim Farron got a present because he sure as hell ain't going to do anything major under his own steam.

    Any comment on the reports of us special forces mission to rescue western hostages deep within syria?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,377
    Then Sir Keir tweets this

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/818589979974705154
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    The man's a clown. He's already lost the centre now he's going to lose the left.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,888
    With Red Brexit and possible nationalisations, Corbyn could literally be going to the country on Michael Foot's manifesto.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,377
    I wonder what the odds on the Lib Dems polling ahead of Labour are the next general election would be right now.

    This is either a brilliant move from Corbyn or the greatest strategic blunder since the Empire of Japan decided to attack the US Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour to keep the Americans out of WWII
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,377
    @keiranpedley: Well, I suppose Labour can stop worrying about those stupid mugs now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,694
    70% of Labour seats voted Leave so it is not as stupid by Corbyn as this thread headline suggests under FPTP

    https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/most-labour-mps-represent-a-constituency-that-voted-leave-36f13210f5c6#.2u6jyf5r2
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,888
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Then Sir Keir tweets this

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/818589979974705154

    Theresa May blaming the press is a major gaffe. Firstly, because it's shifting the blame and more importantly because she's admitting that if hard Brexit were a well founded fear, the markets would be right to react negatively.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,377
    Les Grenouilles to use Brexit to supplant us in NATO. Just brilliant.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/818588275019489280
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,694
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Then Sir Keir tweets this

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/818589979974705154

    Well May can point out to him she has never promised full access to the single market but she has promised to control the borders, you cannot have both, so which is it to be for Labour?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,763
    edited January 2017
    FPT
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/818587686554501121

    The point of Corbyn to his supporters is socialism, ultra EUphiles are moving to the LDs. Don't forget Tony Benn was always anti EU
    Yes, being anti-EU and pro-Brexit is easy for Jezza, he just had to shift a bit on Free Movement - and that isn't hard, as Free Movement can easily be painted as a capitalist tool designed to lower wages for the working poor,/allow vile corporations to import cheap coolies and so on and so forth.

    This is smart politics from Corbyn he's just so dim he didn't realise he could do it, until now.

    It does, however, guarantee continuing war with his EU-phile, anti-Brexit Labour MPs. Heh.
    Agreed. Has Jeremy appointed a new adviser recently? This is the cleverest bit of politics he's ever done. Labour need to go hard Brexit which will, in combination with the Tory Right, put enormous pressure on May to get into a hard-Brexit bidding war. Then, of course, she's lost the moderate, pro-Business element. Might we get the Lib Dems vs ConLabKip?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,377
    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Then Sir Keir tweets this

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/818589979974705154

    Theresa May blaming the press is a major gaffe. Firstly, because it's shifting the blame and more importantly because she's admitting that if hard Brexit were a well founded fear, the markets would be right to react negatively.
    It's the behaviour reminiscent of Gordon Brown
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Y0kel said:

    I'm glad Tim Farron got a present because he sure as hell ain't going to do anything major under his own steam.

    Any comment on the reports of us special forces mission to rescue western hostages deep within syria?
    The one near Deir Ezzor? I'm not sure it was solely about hostages in the traditional sense but honestly don't know much of it. If it was, I would guess we'd have some pasty faced but well meaning Westerner paraded to the cameras by now.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,888
    SeanT said:

    Sandpit said:

    Wrong to vote to leave, as opposed to wrong to want to leave after the vote?

    Yes, that's a crucial distinction. Polls show a very large majority of Brits now think we should Leave (including many Remainers), because that's how we voted.

    We need to know how many Labour voters are hardcore Remoaners. Not many, is my guess.
    Those views will change as we get further away from the vote. If you rewatch any of the campaign debates or coverage 6 months on, or even the reaction following the Leave win, it's surreal how much the superficial optimism of the time contrasts with the current realisation that there is no quick and easy solution.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,694
    Roger said:

    The man's a clown. He's already lost the centre now he's going to lose the left.

    He won't lose the left, he will lose champagne social democrats who never really liked him much anyway
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    Nice to hear Jezza is finally being true to his LEAVE beliefs!

    He was OUT before anyone lol....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,694
    Stark_Dawning said:

    FPT

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/818587686554501121

    The point of Corbyn to his supporters is socialism, ultra EUphiles are moving to the LDs. Don't forget Tony Benn was always anti EU
    Yes, being anti-EU and pro-Brexit is easy for Jezza, he just had to shift a bit on Free Movement - and that isn't hard, as Free Movement can easily be painted as a capitalist tool designed to lower wages for the working poor,/allow vile corporations to import cheap coolies and so on and so forth.

    This is smart politics from Corbyn he's just so dim he didn't realise he could do it, until now.

    It does, however, guarantee continuing war with his EU-phile, anti-Brexit Labour MPs. Heh.
    Agreed. Has Jeremy appointed a new adviser recently? This is the cleverest bit of politics he's ever done. Labour need to go hard Brexit which will, in combination with the Tory Right, put enormous pressure on May to get into a hard-Brexit bidding war. Then, of course, she's lost the moderate, pro-Business element. Might we get the Lib Dems vs ConLabKip?
    Most Tory voters voted Leave and want hard Brexit
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/davidjoachim/status/818576535128899585
  • glwglw Posts: 10,010
    GIN1138 said:

    Nice to hear Jezza is finally being true to his LEAVE beliefs!

    He was OUT before anyone lol....

    He's never been IN.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Y0kel said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Y0kel said:

    I'm glad Tim Farron got a present because he sure as hell ain't going to do anything major under his own steam.

    Any comment on the reports of us special forces mission to rescue western hostages deep within syria?
    The one near Deir Ezzor? I'm not sure it was solely about hostages in the traditional sense but honestly don't know much of it. If it was, I would guess we'd have some pasty faced but well meaning Westerner paraded to the cameras by now.

    That is why I was asking, seems some odd reports...saying they went into an Isis "prison" where westerner are held. That was Sunday & no prezzers with castaway looking man or reports of it going wrong and deaths.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,377
    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/818593946699972608
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2017
    Stark_Dawning said:

    FPT

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/818587686554501121

    The point of Corbyn to his supporters is socialism, ultra EUphiles are moving to the LDs. Don't forget Tony Benn was always anti EU
    Yes, being anti-EU and pro-Brexit is easy for Jezza, he just had to shift a bit on Free Movement - and that isn't hard, as Free Movement can easily be painted as a capitalist tool designed to lower wages for the working poor,/allow vile corporations to import cheap coolies and so on and so forth.

    This is smart politics from Corbyn he's just so dim he didn't realise he could do it, until now.

    It does, however, guarantee continuing war with his EU-phile, anti-Brexit Labour MPs. Heh.
    Agreed. Has Jeremy appointed a new adviser recently? This is the cleverest bit of politics he's ever done. Labour need to go hard Brexit which will, in combination with the Tory Right, put enormous pressure on May to get into a hard-Brexit bidding war. Then, of course, she's lost the moderate, pro-Business element. Might we get the Lib Dems vs ConLabKip?
    I have said ad infinitum on here that the Labour Party justifying free movement of people by GDP/other economic pointers undercuts the entire reason for their existence. I know the supply and demand deniers on here won't believe it, but it does adversely affect the poor. The main reason I stopped voting for them.

    Gross misconduct, at least maybe they're waking up to that now.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,377
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/davidjoachim/status/818576535128899585

    Damnit, should have followed the advice to back Romney as Secretary of State
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Oblivion is full of Liberal Democrats dreaming of replacing Labour.

    Tim will be joining them, as Jezza has called this right.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Y0kel said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Y0kel said:

    I'm glad Tim Farron got a present because he sure as hell ain't going to do anything major under his own steam.

    Any comment on the reports of us special forces mission to rescue western hostages deep within syria?
    The one near Deir Ezzor? I'm not sure it was solely about hostages in the traditional sense but honestly don't know much of it. If it was, I would guess we'd have some pasty faced but well meaning Westerner paraded to the cameras by now.

    Yokel - what have you heard about the airport attack in Florida?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,694
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Les Grenouilles to use Brexit to supplant us in NATO. Just brilliant.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/818588275019489280

    Well if France wants to take over from the US and UK and pay most of the bill for defending the Baltic states from Putin let them
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    YBarddCwsc said:

    Oblivion is full of Liberal Democrats dreaming of replacing Labour.

    Tim will be joining them, as Jezza has called this right.

    "jezza has called this right"

    Not something we hear every day..........
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/818594907212357632
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    At this rate NP-exMP will be running UKIPers for Jezza at the next election.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,123
    YBarddCwsc said:

    Oblivion is full of Liberal Democrats dreaming of replacing Labour.

    Tim will be joining them, as Jezza has called this right.

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    Will he have anyone left in his labour
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    And if 10% of Labour Remainers switched to the LDs then they'd lose 47 seats to the Tories and 2 to the LDs.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    That Cummings essay showed that ardent europhilia is capped at 30%.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,888
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    Oblivion is full of Liberal Democrats dreaming of replacing Labour.

    Tim will be joining them, as Jezza has called this right.

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    Will he have anyone left in his labour
    In 2005 the Lib Dems were only 20% adrift of Corbyn in Islington. Could he hold on to the north only for him and his friends to be decapitated in inner London?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,694
    SeanT said:

    One of the best aspects of that remarkable Dominic Cummings essay is his dextrous analysis - demolition, maybe - of Cameron. An unimpressive politician, flattered by the fact he faced Brown and Miliband. A bright guy prone to grievous errors, due to vanity, groupthink and laziness. A man who just wanted to BE prime minister, rather than actually DO anything.

    And as for that dreadful renegotiation.....

    Anyone who wants an informed view on recent British political history needs to read that essay.

    Brexit is down to Blair's failure to put a 7 year transition period on Eastern European migrants like most other EU leaders and Cameron's failure to get anything to compensate in his renegotiation.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,763
    edited January 2017
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Then Sir Keir tweets this

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/818589979974705154

    Corbyn and Starmer's pincer movement is good politics. They're demanding 'Platinum Brexit' - restriction on free movement with all the single-market goodies. Of course, we all know this is unattainable, but so what? The Tories own Brexit utterly, and this is all about portraying whatever settlement they do get as a miserable failure. Clever stuff.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    Oblivion is full of Liberal Democrats dreaming of replacing Labour.

    Tim will be joining them, as Jezza has called this right.

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    Will he have anyone left in his labour
    Jezza has always at heart been a red Brexiteer. Historically that is where anti EU feeling resided. It was the social chapter that altered things, and lefties recognised that the EU could be on the side of workers rights.

    Labour moving to a policy of Red Brexit is a real threat to dithering May. Sure, the Labour Remainers will be annoyed, but post A 50 the debate will move on.

  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    williamglenn said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    Oblivion is full of Liberal Democrats dreaming of replacing Labour.

    Tim will be joining them, as Jezza has called this right.

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    Will he have anyone left in his labour
    In 2005 the Lib Dems were only 20% adrift of Corbyn in Islington. Could he hold on to the north only for him and his friends to be decapitated in inner London?
    Attitudes towards Islam and multicultural Britain, not the EU will determine that.

    Is there anyone in the Lib Dems who isn't white?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/818596127184420868
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,377
    Huzzah, another Yorkshireman (a Sheffield lad no less) is about to become England cricket captain.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/01/09/england-captain-alastair-cook-prepares-stand-joe-root-ready/
  • glwglw Posts: 10,010
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Y0kel said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Y0kel said:

    I'm glad Tim Farron got a present because he sure as hell ain't going to do anything major under his own steam.

    Any comment on the reports of us special forces mission to rescue western hostages deep within syria?
    The one near Deir Ezzor? I'm not sure it was solely about hostages in the traditional sense but honestly don't know much of it. If it was, I would guess we'd have some pasty faced but well meaning Westerner paraded to the cameras by now.

    That is why I was asking, seems some odd reports...saying they went into an Isis "prison" where westerner are held. That was Sunday & no prezzers with castaway looking man or reports of it going wrong and deaths.
    If it's the same raid the Telegraph has a story on it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,694
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    Oblivion is full of Liberal Democrats dreaming of replacing Labour.

    Tim will be joining them, as Jezza has called this right.

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    Will he have anyone left in his labour
    Jezza has always at heart been a red Brexiteer. Historically that is where anti EU feeling resided. It was the social chapter that altered things, and lefties recognised that the EU could be on the side of workers rights.

    Labour moving to a policy of Red Brexit is a real threat to dithering May. Sure, the Labour Remainers will be annoyed, but post A 50 the debate will move on.

    Corbyn has said he wants full single market access and controlled free movement, he cannot have both and of course May actually picks up some more Labour seats if some Labour Remain voters switch to the LDs even if Corbyn prevents a few Labour Leave voters switching to Tories or UKIP
  • glwglw Posts: 10,010
    SeanT said:

    One of the best aspects of that remarkable Dominic Cummings essay is his dextrous analysis - demolition, maybe - of Cameron. An unimpressive politician, flattered by the fact he faced Brown and Miliband. A bright guy prone to grievous errors, due to vanity, groupthink and laziness. A man who just wanted to BE prime minister, rather than actually DO anything.

    Yeah he nailed Cameron with that BE versus DO bit.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Floater said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Y0kel said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Y0kel said:

    I'm glad Tim Farron got a present because he sure as hell ain't going to do anything major under his own steam.

    Any comment on the reports of us special forces mission to rescue western hostages deep within syria?
    The one near Deir Ezzor? I'm not sure it was solely about hostages in the traditional sense but honestly don't know much of it. If it was, I would guess we'd have some pasty faced but well meaning Westerner paraded to the cameras by now.

    That is why I was asking, seems some odd reports...saying they went into an Isis "prison" where westerner are held. That was Sunday & no prezzers with castaway looking man or reports of it going wrong and deaths.
    If it's the same raid the Telegraph has a story on it.
    That is one place I saw it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Huzzah, another Yorkshireman (a Sheffield lad no less) is about to become England cricket captain.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/01/09/england-captain-alastair-cook-prepares-stand-joe-root-ready/

    I hope it doesn't ruin his batting.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,377
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Huzzah, another Yorkshireman (a Sheffield lad no less) is about to become England cricket captain.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/01/09/england-captain-alastair-cook-prepares-stand-joe-root-ready/

    I hope it doesn't ruin his batting.
    I think it'll enhance it (I hope)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,694
    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    The traditional left in the comments are not that bothered, the hardcore EU phile social democrats are very bothered
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    oh dear

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4103028/Beating-wives-reminds-women-rules-house-encourages-wear-sexy-outfits-make-sex-make-amends-declares-Turkish-marriage-guide.html


    How to double down

    ""'We do not publish this book as a municipality, we buy it from a bookshop and give it as a gift to the marriage.
    'The contents of the book are open to interpretation. The verse consists of works based on hadith [reports from the Islamic prophet Muhammad] and scientific research.'


    "scientific research" lol



  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    One of the best aspects of that remarkable Dominic Cummings essay is his dextrous analysis - demolition, maybe - of Cameron. An unimpressive politician, flattered by the fact he faced Brown and Miliband. A bright guy prone to grievous errors, due to vanity, groupthink and laziness. A man who just wanted to BE prime minister, rather than actually DO anything.

    Yeah he nailed Cameron with that BE versus DO bit.
    Not sure that May is any different. She is expert at doing nothing too.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/818596127184420868

    Indeed. It's the most extraordinary U-turn, and it makes a mockery of one of the few assets that Corbyn has: his supposed authenticity.

    Firstly, his new position will both (a) not be believed by most Brexit voters, notably the Red Ukip types he is probably hoping to recover with this strategy, and (b) severely annoy his Europhile and No Borders elements.

    Secondly, those who have spent recent months waffling about the "progressive alliance" can kiss that goodbye. The Greens, the SNP and Lib Dems are all mad-keen on the EU and most of them are strongly wedded to free movement, and to the single market (which Britain hasn't a prayer of remaining within unless it swallows all of the four freedoms whole.)

    Thirdly, the pro-Brexit voters that Corbyn now appears to be chasing tend to be older, more rural and more conservative. These are the categories of voters most likely to approve strongly of Theresa May, and amongst whom the Labour Party as a whole and Jeremy Corbyn in particular are deeply, deeply unpopular.

    This latest move is madness. It's a recipe for shipping voters to the Lib Dems (and Greens) much faster than they can possibly be recovered from Ukip.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,912
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/davidjoachim/status/818576535128899585

    Show me an oil company that hasn't dealt with dodgy regimes, and I'll show you an oil company that's done very poorly for its shareholders.

  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/818594907212357632

    The pound only fell 1% against the dollar. The FTSE 100 actually went up (and so, more pertinently, did the FTSE250.)

    May's direction of travel has been strongly signposted for some time. The strong implication of single market withdrawal included in the interview yesterday had, essentially, already been priced in by the markets.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    chestnut said:

    williamglenn said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    Oblivion is full of Liberal Democrats dreaming of replacing Labour.

    Tim will be joining them, as Jezza has called this right.

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    Will he have anyone left in his labour
    In 2005 the Lib Dems were only 20% adrift of Corbyn in Islington. Could he hold on to the north only for him and his friends to be decapitated in inner London?
    Attitudes towards Islam and multicultural Britain, not the EU will determine that.

    Is there anyone in the Lib Dems who isn't white?
    Maajid Nawaz is probably the most prominent. Parmjit Gill was MP for Leicester South.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Black_Rook said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/818596127184420868

    Indeed. It's the most extraordinary U-turn, and it makes a mockery of one of the few assets that Corbyn has: his supposed authenticity.

    Firstly, his new position will both (a) not be believed by most Brexit voters, notably the Red Ukip types he is probably hoping to recover with this strategy, and (b) severely annoy his Europhile and No Borders elements.

    Secondly, those who have spent recent months waffling about the "progressive alliance" can kiss that goodbye. The Greens, the SNP and Lib Dems are all mad-keen on the EU and most of them are strongly wedded to free movement, and to the single market (which Britain hasn't a prayer of remaining within unless it swallows all of the four freedoms whole.)

    Thirdly, the pro-Brexit voters that Corbyn now appears to be chasing tend to be older, more rural and more conservative. These are the categories of voters most likely to approve strongly of Theresa May, and amongst whom the Labour Party as a whole and Jeremy Corbyn in particular are deeply, deeply unpopular.

    This latest move is madness. It's a recipe for shipping voters to the Lib Dems (and Greens) much faster than they can possibly be recovered from Ukip.
    Corbyn has one of the longest and most consistent records of voting against the EU, stronger by far than most of the cabinet, including PM and CoE.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,888
    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited January 2017
    OT - who exactly are the 2/3 of Labour voters who think it is wrong to leave?

    The majority of Labour constituences voted Leave.

    It is reasonable to think that many poorer inner-city ones voted Remain purely because they thought we'd turn into some UKIP led, 1930s style fascist state with mass deportations etc and they would be singled out on racial, religious or nationality grounds.

    If we don't, which we won't, then the Labour Remain vote reconciles itself to Labour Leave and they are just left with the insipid Cameron/Clegg/Blair tendency clinging to the euro gravy train.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,694
    edited January 2017
    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    Some like this too though
    "EriuAndTheGaels
    Sounds like a vote winner to me - he can take back UKippers and actually stand as a leftwing candidate supporting traditional leftwing principles, not economic liberal principles some here seem to think count as leftwing."

    Corbyn could have lost Hampstead and Cambridge but secured West Bromwich and Hartlepool and there are rather more of the latter than the former
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,888
    chestnut said:

    OT - who exactly are the 2/3 of Labour voters who think it is wrong to leave?

    The majority of Labour constituences voted Leave.

    It's a big mistake to think that you can slice the vote like that and assume that the Labour voters in a Labour leave seat necessarily split the same way on the referendum. It's absolutely possible for Labour voters to be majority Remain even if the constituency as a whole is not.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    chestnut said:

    OT - who exactly are the 2/3 of Labour voters who think it is wrong to leave?

    The majority of Labour constituences voted Leave.

    It is reasonable to think that many poorer inner-city ones voted Remain purely because they thought we'd turn into some UKIP led, 1930s style fascist state with mass deportations etc etc.

    If we don't, which we won't, then the Labour Remain vote reconciles itself to Labour Leave and they are just left with the insipid Cmaeron/Clegg/Blair tendency.

    In many (most?) of those consistencies the distant second party was UKIP. Mike's stat is inflated because it is baced on recent Labour voters.

    Even Hartlepool has a lot of Labour Remainers.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Black_Rook said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/818596127184420868

    Indeed. It's the most extraordinary U-turn, and it makes a mockery of one of the few assets that Corbyn has: his supposed authenticity.

    Firstly, his new position will both (a) not be believed by most Brexit voters, notably the Red Ukip types he is probably hoping to recover with this strategy, and (b) severely annoy his Europhile and No Borders elements.

    Secondly, those who have spent recent months waffling about the "progressive alliance" can kiss that goodbye. The Greens, the SNP and Lib Dems are all mad-keen on the EU and most of them are strongly wedded to free movement, and to the single market (which Britain hasn't a prayer of remaining within unless it swallows all of the four freedoms whole.)

    Thirdly, the pro-Brexit voters that Corbyn now appears to be chasing tend to be older, more rural and more conservative. These are the categories of voters most likely to approve strongly of Theresa May, and amongst whom the Labour Party as a whole and Jeremy Corbyn in particular are deeply, deeply unpopular.

    This latest move is madness. It's a recipe for shipping voters to the Lib Dems (and Greens) much faster than they can possibly be recovered from Ukip.
    Corbyn has one of the longest and most consistent records of voting against the EU, stronger by far than most of the cabinet, including PM and CoE.
    1. Most of his party is Europhile. He kept it buttoned about the EU, even as he was willing to upset them over other issues, for a reason.

    2. Jeremy Corbyn's history is hardly going to help him in a General Election campaign.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Les Grenouilles to use Brexit to supplant us in NATO. Just brilliant.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/818588275019489280

    This is the same France who left the military command of NATO for 43 years?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/davidjoachim/status/818576535128899585

    Show me an oil company that hasn't dealt with dodgy regimes, and I'll show you an oil company that's done very poorly for its shareholders.

    Its a bit like finding out that massive western companies have paid "facilitation fees" in Africa or China.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Black_Rook said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Black_Rook said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/818596127184420868

    Indeed. It's the most extraordinary U-turn, and it makes a mockery of one of the few assets that Corbyn has: his supposed authenticity.

    Firstly, his new position will both (a) not be believed by most Brexit voters, notably the Red Ukip types he is probably hoping to recover with this strategy, and (b) severely annoy his Europhile and No Borders elements.

    Secondly, those who have spent recent months waffling about the "progressive alliance" can kiss that goodbye. The Greens, the SNP and Lib Dems are all mad-keen on the EU and most of them are strongly wedded to free movement, and to the single market (which Britain hasn't a prayer of remaining within unless it swallows all of the four freedoms whole.)

    Thirdly, the pro-Brexit voters that Corbyn now appears to be chasing tend to be older, more rural and more conservative. These are the categories of voters most likely to approve strongly of Theresa May, and amongst whom the Labour Party as a whole and Jeremy Corbyn in particular are deeply, deeply unpopular.

    This latest move is madness. It's a recipe for shipping voters to the Lib Dems (and Greens) much faster than they can possibly be recovered from Ukip.
    Corbyn has one of the longest and most consistent records of voting against the EU, stronger by far than most of the cabinet, including PM and CoE.
    1. Most of his party is Europhile. He kept it buttoned about the EU, even as he was willing to upset them over other issues, for a reason.

    2. Jeremy Corbyn's history is hardly going to help him in a General Election campaign.
    Sure, but Corbyn's speech is hardly surprising. He is a Bennite to his roots and Benn was the opposition to the EU throughout his life.

    Bennites were against the EU when Thatcherites were wetting their knickers over the Single Market.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,694
    edited January 2017
    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    No, see Witney. Anyway, 161 Labour seats voted Leave and 70 Remain and 252 Tory seats voted Leave and 77 Remain so it makes sense for both May and Corbyn to respect the Leave vote in those areas. The LDs can afford to still back a pro Remain agenda as 5 of their 8 seats backed Remain and 3 Leave
    https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/most-labour-mps-represent-a-constituency-that-voted-leave-36f13210f5c6#.j3sch86l9
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Black_Rook said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/818596127184420868

    Indeed. It's the most extraordinary U-turn, and it makes a mockery of one of the few assets that Corbyn has: his supposed authenticity.

    Firstly, his new position will both (a) not be believed by most Brexit voters, notably the Red Ukip types he is probably hoping to recover with this strategy, and (b) severely annoy his Europhile and No Borders elements.

    Secondly, those who have spent recent months waffling about the "progressive alliance" can kiss that goodbye. The Greens, the SNP and Lib Dems are all mad-keen on the EU and most of them are strongly wedded to free movement, and to the single market (which Britain hasn't a prayer of remaining within unless it swallows all of the four freedoms whole.)

    Thirdly, the pro-Brexit voters that Corbyn now appears to be chasing tend to be older, more rural and more conservative. These are the categories of voters most likely to approve strongly of Theresa May, and amongst whom the Labour Party as a whole and Jeremy Corbyn in particular are deeply, deeply unpopular.

    This latest move is madness. It's a recipe for shipping voters to the Lib Dems (and Greens) much faster than they can possibly be recovered from Ukip.
    Agreed. This will make Labour's vote distribution even less efficient than it is now.

    Seats where Labour can't afford to lose 10-15% of their voters to the LD will be well within reach for Tories now...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,377
    https://twitter.com/iamhamesh/status/818585081694580736
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited January 2017
    williamglenn said:

    chestnut said:

    OT - who exactly are the 2/3 of Labour voters who think it is wrong to leave?

    The majority of Labour constituences voted Leave.

    It's a big mistake to think that you can slice the vote like that and assume that the Labour voters in a Labour leave seat necessarily split the same way on the referendum. It's absolutely possible for Labour voters to be majority Remain even if the constituency as a whole is not.
    I'm not suggesting a uniform correlation, more that some were more comfortable in expressing leave in June than others were. The others may have moved to leave now that it is obvious we are not moving towards a far-right state. I'm especially thinking about London and it's fairly unique demographics.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    Nah.
    I don't think williamglenn understands that many of the Tory majorities in many ex Lib Dem seats are now yugggge!
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,705
    Mortimer said:

    Black_Rook said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/818596127184420868

    Indeed. It's the most extraordinary U-turn, and it makes a mockery of one of the few assets that Corbyn has: his supposed authenticity.

    Firstly, his new position will both (a) not be believed by most Brexit voters, notably the Red Ukip types he is probably hoping to recover with this strategy, and (b) severely annoy his Europhile and No Borders elements.

    Secondly, those who have spent recent months waffling about the "progressive alliance" can kiss that goodbye. The Greens, the SNP and Lib Dems are all mad-keen on the EU and most of them are strongly wedded to free movement, and to the single market (which Britain hasn't a prayer of remaining within unless it swallows all of the four freedoms whole.)

    Thirdly, the pro-Brexit voters that Corbyn now appears to be chasing tend to be older, more rural and more conservative. These are the categories of voters most likely to approve strongly of Theresa May, and amongst whom the Labour Party as a whole and Jeremy Corbyn in particular are deeply, deeply unpopular.

    This latest move is madness. It's a recipe for shipping voters to the Lib Dems (and Greens) much faster than they can possibly be recovered from Ukip.
    Agreed. This will make Labour's vote distribution even less efficient than it is now.

    Seats where Labour can't afford to lose 10-15% of their voters to the LD will be well within reach for Tories now...
    Unless the Tory Remainers move to the LDs too.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,888
    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    PS do you want a bet that we will have technically Brexited* by the end of 2019?

    I believe we will have Brexited by then, and I'm willing to wager any amount of money under £10,000

    *By this I mean legally no longer a part of the European Union, though we may be in some transitional arrangement with regard to the Single Market, ECJ jurisdiction, etc
    OK you're on, for £10,000.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/davidjoachim/status/818576535128899585

    Show me an oil company that hasn't dealt with dodgy regimes, and I'll show you an oil company that's done very poorly for its shareholders.

    1. Saudi Arabia 2. Russia 3. USA 4. Iraq 5. China 6. Iran - largest oil producing countries. You have to get to Canada at no.7 to find a non dodgy regime.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,763
    HYUFD said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    No, see Witney. Anyway, 161 Labour seats voted Leave and 70 Remain and 252 Tory seats voted Leave and 77 Remain so it makes sense for both May and Corbyn to respect the Leave vote in those areas. The LDs can afford to still back a pro Remain agenda as 5 of their 8 seats backed Remain and 3 Leave
    https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/most-labour-mps-represent-a-constituency-that-voted-leave-36f13210f5c6#.j3sch86l9
    Yes, but that dynamic will have changed utterly at the next GE when Brexit is a fait accompli. It's that which Jez now has to consider. Of course, it might be that we haven't left by then, but in that case it will be very much Theresa's problem.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    PS do you want a bet that we will have technically Brexited* by the end of 2019?

    I believe we will have Brexited by then, and I'm willing to wager any amount of money under £10,000

    *By this I mean legally no longer a part of the European Union, though we may be in some transitional arrangement with regard to the Single Market, ECJ jurisdiction, etc
    OK you're on, for £10,000.
    I think that is a courageous wager, but would probably be best with a tighter definition of what Brexit consists of.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    SeanT said:

    Another excellent Guardian comment

    "richard farrell-adams SE23 29m ago [talking of Corbyn's conversion to Brexiteerism]

    Agreed.
    Pandering to people who are a joke"

    That's what left wing, double-barrelled Guardian readers think of working class Leave voters. They are "a joke".

    I think the joke's on them. Monty Python certainly thought so.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited January 2017
    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    PS do you want a bet that we will have technically Brexited* by the end of 2019?

    I believe we will have Brexited by then, and I'm willing to wager any amount of money under £10,000

    *By this I mean legally no longer a part of the European Union, though we may be in some transitional arrangement with regard to the Single Market, ECJ jurisdiction, etc
    OK you're on, for £10,000.
    lol

    Anyone interested in a secondary/proxy bet on this? ^

    Bet settled amicably 4/1
    Welched/lawyers involved 1/4

    Max £10
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,123
    foxinsoxuk said:

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    One of the best aspects of that remarkable Dominic Cummings essay is his dextrous analysis - demolition, maybe - of Cameron. An unimpressive politician, flattered by the fact he faced Brown and Miliband. A bright guy prone to grievous errors, due to vanity, groupthink and laziness. A man who just wanted to BE prime minister, rather than actually DO anything.

    Yeah he nailed Cameron with that BE versus DO bit.
    Not sure that May is any different. She is expert at doing nothing too.
    Give her to the end of the month - you might be very surprised
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    The Wycombe players response to drawing spurs in tut cup is fantastic and is surely how every Tory strategy meeting goes when their agenda gets to labours leadership polling
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    foxinsoxuk said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    PS do you want a bet that we will have technically Brexited* by the end of 2019?

    I believe we will have Brexited by then, and I'm willing to wager any amount of money under £10,000

    *By this I mean legally no longer a part of the European Union, though we may be in some transitional arrangement with regard to the Single Market, ECJ jurisdiction, etc
    OK you're on, for £10,000.
    I think that is a courageous wager, but would probably be best with a tighter definition of what Brexit consists of.
    Let's ask TM
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,888
    SeanT said:

    This is likely the biggest bet in the history of PB: so, mods, can I get some sureties as to the identity of williamglenn? Is he good for the cash?

    I'm not anonymous; he is.

    I'll email you.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    I've got a date with a posh girl this week & we are meeting at the bar at Rules Restaurant, anyone been?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,694
    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    PS do you want a bet that we will have technically Brexited* by the end of 2019?

    I believe we will have Brexited by then, and I'm willing to wager any amount of money under £10,000

    *By this I mean legally no longer a part of the European Union, though we may be in some transitional arrangement with regard to the Single Market, ECJ jurisdiction, etc
    OK you're on, for £10,000.
    Very brave man
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,694
    Stark_Dawning said:

    HYUFD said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    No, see Witney. Anyway, 161 Labour seats voted Leave and 70 Remain and 252 Tory seats voted Leave and 77 Remain so it makes sense for both May and Corbyn to respect the Leave vote in those areas. The LDs can afford to still back a pro Remain agenda as 5 of their 8 seats backed Remain and 3 Leave
    https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/most-labour-mps-represent-a-constituency-that-voted-leave-36f13210f5c6#.j3sch86l9
    Yes, but that dynamic will have changed utterly at the next GE when Brexit is a fait accompli. It's that which Jez now has to consider. Of course, it might be that we haven't left by then, but in that case it will be very much Theresa's problem.
    I actually think it is a good thing he has taken this stance, now if you want to remain in the EU at all costs or have as soft a Brexit as possible you know the only way to do it is to vote LD at the next general election, no need for a second referendum and no complaints about the result. Goodnight
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    ReggieCide said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    PS do you want a bet that we will have technically Brexited* by the end of 2019?

    I believe we will have Brexited by then, and I'm willing to wager any amount of money under £10,000

    *By this I mean legally no longer a part of the European Union, though we may be in some transitional arrangement with regard to the Single Market, ECJ jurisdiction, etc
    OK you're on, for £10,000.
    I think that is a courageous wager, but would probably be best with a tighter definition of what Brexit consists of.
    Let's ask TM
    May need sometbing less tautological.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Perhaps Jezza read Cummings Essay ?

    "This was brought home to me very starkly one day. I was conducting focus groups of Conservative voters. I talked with them about immigration for 20 minutes (all focus groups now start with immigration and tend to revert to it within two minutes unless you stop them). We then moved onto the economy. After two minutes of listening I was puzzled and said – who did you vote for? Labour they all said. An admin error by the company meant that I had been talking to core Labour voters, not core Tory voters. On the subject of immigration, these working class / lower middle class people were practically indistinguishable from all the Tories and UKIP people I had been talking to."
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    SeanT said:

    isam said:

    I've got a date with a posh girl this week & we are meeting at the bar at Rules Restaurant, anyone been?

    Yes. Have the grouse.
    don't you do that afterwards?
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    foxinsoxuk said:

    ReggieCide said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    PS do you want a bet that we will have technically Brexited* by the end of 2019?

    I believe we will have Brexited by then, and I'm willing to wager any amount of money under £10,000

    *By this I mean legally no longer a part of the European Union, though we may be in some transitional arrangement with regard to the Single Market, ECJ jurisdiction, etc
    OK you're on, for £10,000.
    I think that is a courageous wager, but would probably be best with a tighter definition of what Brexit consists of.
    Let's ask TM
    May need sometbing less tautological.
    Only trying to be helpful
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    What Corbyn has said today has given me the right to vote Lib Dem with a clear conscience,
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,991
    foxinsoxuk said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    PS do you want a bet that we will have technically Brexited* by the end of 2019?

    I believe we will have Brexited by then, and I'm willing to wager any amount of money under £10,000

    *By this I mean legally no longer a part of the European Union, though we may be in some transitional arrangement with regard to the Single Market, ECJ jurisdiction, etc
    OK you're on, for £10,000.
    I think that is a courageous wager, but would probably be best with a tighter definition of what Brexit consists of.
    Might I suggest that Brexit, for the purpose of the bet, mean 1. The UK government invoking Article 50, and 2. The exit date agreed in the withdrawal talks being reached (after any extensions to the talks) or, failing the EU and UK reaching agreement, the two year period expiring, or such longer period as might be agreed expiring if one or more extensions are agreed.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Corbyn is joining the 'have cake and eat it' party.

    He wants full access to the single market and controls over free movement.

    Quite a crowded party. Who invited Corbyn?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited January 2017
    Food sales drive 'bumper' Christmas for retailers

    Paul Martin, UK head of retail at KPMG, who help to produce the report, suggested that consumers had "splashed out on treating themselves" ahead of predicted price rises next year.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38553586

    Hold on...only a few weeks ago the BBC ran a piece saying because of Brexit / currency rates Christmas was much more expensive and that would be dire..now apparently we have been splashing out resulting in bumper Christmas.

    Have to say in my experience the shops have been nuts even post Christmas, if anything busier than leading up to them.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    SeanT said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Food sales drive 'bumper' Christmas for retailers

    Paul Martin, UK head of retail at KPMG, who help to produce the report, suggested that consumers had "splashed out on treating themselves" ahead of predicted price rises next year.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38553586

    Hold on...only a few weeks ago the BBC ran a piece saying because of Brexit / currency rates Christmas was much more expensive and that would be dire..

    Also:


    "UK in 'front seat' for US trade deal, top Republican says"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38565192
    Back of the queue for linking to such a thing...
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    SeanT said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    ReggieCide said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    PS do you want a bet that we will have technically Brexited* by the end of 2019?

    I believe we will have Brexited by then, and I'm willing to wager any amount of money under £10,000

    *By this I mean legally no longer a part of the European Union, though we may be in some transitional arrangement with regard to the Single Market, ECJ jurisdiction, etc
    OK you're on, for £10,000.
    I think that is a courageous wager, but would probably be best with a tighter definition of what Brexit consists of.
    Let's ask TM
    May need sometbing less tautological.
    This might be an interesting test of PB-ers' skill, and also elucidate the issues.

    Can someone draw up a definition of Brexit likely to satisfy williamglenn AND me, in the pursuit of our hefty wager?
    A new trade deal with Putin's Russia?
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    Blimey that is a huge wager williamglenn and SeanT. Maybe confirm in the morning you are both still on?

    In terms of judging, I'd suggest the UK no longer appearing in this page: https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-countries_en
    In other words, the EU itself no longer understands the UK to be a member.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    david_herdson said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    glw said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The comments section in the Guardian reporting Corbyn's shift are just hilarious.

    You are not kidding. Full scale meltdown.
    Some priceless comments in there.


    "alexander103 45m ago

    What a fucking TURD.Showing his true colours now.We have no second choice in this country, we are truly shafted."

    Judging by this reaction, Corbyn has just lost about 1m Guardianista-Remainer middle class voters, and made Brexit completely certain.

    CHORTLE
    He's also just given carte blanche to right-on Labour voters in affluent Tory seats to go for the Lib Dems en masse, creating a big electoral headache for May.
    PS do you want a bet that we will have technically Brexited* by the end of 2019?

    I believe we will have Brexited by then, and I'm willing to wager any amount of money under £10,000

    *By this I mean legally no longer a part of the European Union, though we may be in some transitional arrangement with regard to the Single Market, ECJ jurisdiction, etc
    OK you're on, for £10,000.
    I think that is a courageous wager, but would probably be best with a tighter definition of what Brexit consists of.
    Might I suggest that Brexit, for the purpose of the bet, mean 1. The UK government invoking Article 50, and 2. The exit date agreed in the withdrawal talks being reached (after any extensions to the talks) or, failing the EU and UK reaching agreement, the two year period expiring, or such longer period as might be agreed expiring if one or more extensions are agreed.
    I think this is fair, my expectation of the timing of "Out" of the EU under normally held rules would be around April 2019.
    I think I'd rather be on Sean's side of the bet, stakes are well out of my league though ;)
    Though negotiations often get drawn out, extended etc - so Glenn has a fair chance to win.

    SeanT 1-2, Glenn 2-1 maybe.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    surbiton said:

    What Corbyn has said today has given me the right to vote Lib Dem with a clear conscience,

    To support the Tories little helpers? Thought you might have learnt your lesson - just as Von Papen discovered the dangers of helping others to form a Coalition!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    On A&E Not sure what Hunt's point was.

    The last time I went, my other half believed she had a small splinter in her eye. We were seen within 10 minutes for triage and 2 hrs for the eye Doctor - which was quite good I think.

    111 itself advised us to go there, I'm not sure she could be classified as 'seriously ill' on any count though ?

    I guess in years gone by a GP could have done it 'out of hours', but those are no longer a thing..
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    On McGuiness, I think he's quite right to throw his toys out the pram regarding the RHI - what an absolutely terrible idea that was by Foster.

    And what a good thing it is too. A disagreement about a NORMAL political fuck up would trigger Assembly elections. Glad to see it tbh.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,769
    SeanT said:

    Can someone draw up a definition of Brexit likely to satisfy williamglenn AND me, in the pursuit of our hefty wager?

    Your options are:

    * Option 1) That by 23:59 Dec 31st 2019 there is no UK member on the European Council with voting rights

    * or Option 2) That by 23:59 Dec 31st 2019 there are no UK MEPs in the European Parliament with voting rights

    * or Option 3) That by 23:59 Dec 31st 2019 there are no UK Commissioners in the European Commission with a portfolio

    These definitions allow for the possibility of UK members remaining as observers
This discussion has been closed.