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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why I’ve backed Diane Abbott to be next Labour leader

Two of my underlying assumptions about politics in this country are 1) Jeremy Corbyn will be Labour leader at the next general election and 2) Were a Jeremy Corbyn led Labour party to lose a general election (especially if it is a comprehensive defeat) Labour will return to political sanity and appoint someone more centrist and electable, but what if those assumptions are wrong, cui bono?

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MTimT

Really finding it hard to be interested in British politics until the Article 50 trigger is pulled.

foxinsoxuk

MTimT said:

Really finding it hard to be interested in British politics until the Article 50 trigger is pulled.

Not long to wait!

No way will Abbot be Labour leader. There is no mechanism for a handover to a Corbynite successor, and even if there were such a contest would only take place after Labour had been routed in an election.

felix

Isn't the real reason because you approve of the fact that she sent her son to a private secondary school instead of trying to get him into a Grammar school like Harriet Harman?

SouthamObserver

I hope you didn't stake too much TSE!

daodao

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

Sandpit

Good to wake up on a Sunday morning to a good laugh, thanks @TheScreamingEagles. No bet though, even at 66/1.

Sandpit

Epic trolling from Alec Baldwin again, the SNL crew are loving Trump!
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/817782121993502720/photo/1

RobD

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

From the BBC:

'"The comments were made by a junior embassy employee who is not an Israeli diplomat, and who will be ending his term of employment with the embassy shortly," it said.'

Seems as though the guilty party has already been expelled. The FCO also say they consider the matter closed, which makes me think there won't be further public fallout. What happens behind the scenes, who knows!

edmundintokyo

The problem with this is: How does she get the nominations? IIUC she isn't particularly popular with colleagues.

There is actually a plausible mechanism for getting rid of Corbyn early in return for a left-wing successor, which is that the necessary number of MPs agree that they'll nominate Candidate X if Corbyn goes. But you need both sides to agree to the deal, so it only really works if enough PLP members think that Candidate X will be an improvement. It's obvious how that works with Clive Lewis, but it's hard to see with Diane Abbott.

DecrepitJohnL

Diane Abbott is a Londoner. That might be a factor in the next leadership contest if the London party around Corbyn is blamed for the current mess.

Sandpit

edmundintokyo said:

The problem with this is: How does she get the nominations? IIUC she isn't particularly popular with colleagues.

There is actually a plausible mechanism for getting rid of Corbyn early in return for a left-wing successor, which is that the necessary number of MPs agree that they'll nominate Candidate X if Corbyn goes. But you need both sides to agree to the deal, so it only really works if enough PLP members think that Candidate X will be an improvement. It's obvious how that works with Clive Lewis, but it's hard to see with Diane Abbott.

That might work, as long as Corbyn thought the MPs would keep to their side of the deal, rather than give him a kick in the backside as he departs the stage.

At least after the 2020 election, the nomination threshold will be considerably fewer MPs than it is now!

DecrepitJohnL

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

We are not about to declare war on Israel. What it reminds us, however, is that the Russian help for Trump is not unique or even unusual. Everyone is at it. And at the same time, everyone has embassy staff who are not really diplomats. It is a tough old world out there.

What is worrying is that too often British politicians seem naive and even pollyanna-ish (is that the right adjective?) about the big bad world, and may be too happy to make deals that other countries would not countenance: giving away rebates, selling companies, handing over national security. And probably in negotiating post-Brexit free trade agreements.

daodao

DecrepitJohnL said:

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

We are not about to declare war on Israel. What it reminds us, however, is that the Russian help for Trump is not unique or even unusual. Everyone is at it. And at the same time, everyone has embassy staff who are not really diplomats. It is a tough old world out there.

What is worrying is that too often British politicians seem naive and even pollyanna-ish (is that the right adjective?) about the big bad world, and may be too happy to make deals that other countries would not countenance: giving away rebates, selling companies, handing over national security. And probably in negotiating post-Brexit free trade agreements.

It would be popular.

Dura_Ace

The next Labour leader will positively, absolutely have to be a woman so maybe DA isn't beyond the realms of possibility. She also brings treasured BME status to the role. If she wins a GE she'd be the first PM since Spencer Perceval (who was also mental) to wear a wig.

matt

daodao said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

We are not about to declare war on Israel. What it reminds us, however, is that the Russian help for Trump is not unique or even unusual. Everyone is at it. And at the same time, everyone has embassy staff who are not really diplomats. It is a tough old world out there.

What is worrying is that too often British politicians seem naive and even pollyanna-ish (is that the right adjective?) about the big bad world, and may be too happy to make deals that other countries would not countenance: giving away rebates, selling companies, handing over national security. And probably in negotiating post-Brexit free trade agreements.

It would be popular.

Aren't you the poster that labelled people like Greenspan, Jewish Alan Greenspan?

matt

Dura_Ace said:

The next Labour leader will positively, absolutely have to be a woman so maybe DA isn't beyond the realms of possibility. She also brings treasured BME status to the role. If she wins a GE she'd be the first PM since Spencer Perceval (who was also mental) to wear a wig.

It would be good, and good for their electability, if they focused on ability and competence rather than identity.

foxinsoxuk

How strong is Momentum? it does sound as if it is falling into faction fighting. There is a useful summary of it here:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/12/31/mome-d31.html?view=article_mobile

Morris_Dancer

Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Eagles, it's a demented and ridiculous suggestion. Upon checking recent Labour party leadership results, that does not necessarily mean it's incredible.

Dura_Ace

matt said:

Dura_Ace said:

The next Labour leader will positively, absolutely have to be a woman so maybe DA isn't beyond the realms of possibility. She also brings treasured BME status to the role. If she wins a GE she'd be the first PM since Spencer Perceval (who was also mental) to wear a wig.

It would be good, and good for their electability, if they focused on ability and competence rather than identity.

It would also be good if Taylor Swift were prepared to pleasure me in the French manner this evening but, much like your lemma, that is sadly not how the world works. Identity matters and gender identity matters most of all. Labour need a female leader to avoid looking obsolete. It would also be more of a symbolic clean break with whatever disaster Corbyn brews up at the next GE.

Gardenwalker

daodao said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

We are not about to declare war on Israel. What it reminds us, however, is that the Russian help for Trump is not unique or even unusual. Everyone is at it. And at the same time, everyone has embassy staff who are not really diplomats. It is a tough old world out there.

What is worrying is that too often British politicians seem naive and even pollyanna-ish (is that the right adjective?) about the big bad world, and may be too happy to make deals that other countries would not countenance: giving away rebates, selling companies, handing over national security. And probably in negotiating post-Brexit free trade agreements.

It would be popular.

I don't think British politicians are uniquely naive, and this is a bit of a non-story. The most interesting part is that it appears Boris Johnson (though "sound" on Israel, apparently), is regarded as an idiot who is not actually responsible for anything.

Of course we knew that, but funny to see it confirmed by Mossad.

foxinsoxuk

Dura_Ace said:

matt said:

Dura_Ace said:

The next Labour leader will positively, absolutely have to be a woman so maybe DA isn't beyond the realms of possibility. She also brings treasured BME status to the role. If she wins a GE she'd be the first PM since Spencer Perceval (who was also mental) to wear a wig.

It would be good, and good for their electability, if they focused on ability and competence rather than identity.

It would also be good if Taylor Swift were prepared to pleasure me in the French manner this evening but, much like your lemma, that is sadly not how the world works. Identity matters and gender identity matters most of all. Labour need a female leader to avoid looking obsolete. It would also be more of a symbolic clean break with whatever disaster Corbyn brews up at the next GE.

Its not going to be Abbott though!

Roger

As an ex winner of the worst tipster on PB can I'd like to give TSE's wager my blessing. Diane Abbott got no chance whatsoever.

Having said that I did predict that when Israel sent the head of their propaganda ministry Mark Regev-known throughout the world for his skill at the dark arts- as their 'Ambassador' the unpleasant effects would soon be felt.

That he's working his way through the British political establishment is no surprise to anyone who takes an interest in these things. Look at the success he's had so far destabilizing the Labour Party.

Here he is in a previous life. (Vomit over computer alert)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_-76H-YRjs

Gardenwalker

foxinsoxuk said:

Dura_Ace said:

matt said:

Dura_Ace said:

The next Labour leader will positively, absolutely have to be a woman so maybe DA isn't beyond the realms of possibility. She also brings treasured BME status to the role. If she wins a GE she'd be the first PM since Spencer Perceval (who was also mental) to wear a wig.

It would be good, and good for their electability, if they focused on ability and competence rather than identity.

It would also be good if Taylor Swift were prepared to pleasure me in the French manner this evening but, much like your lemma, that is sadly not how the world works. Identity matters and gender identity matters most of all. Labour need a female leader to avoid looking obsolete. It would also be more of a symbolic clean break with whatever disaster Corbyn brews up at the next GE.

Its not going to be Abbott though!

Of course not. Even the Corbynistas don't actually rate Abbott. Her only virtue is her mad, bovine loyalty to the cause.

Abbott is probably the only person who would perform worse than Corbyn in the polls.

foxinsoxuk

Gardenwalker said:

daodao said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

We are not about to declare war on Israel. What it reminds us, however, is that the Russian help for Trump is not unique or even unusual. Everyone is at it. And at the same time, everyone has embassy staff who are not really diplomats. It is a tough old world out there.

What is worrying is that too often British politicians seem naive and even pollyanna-ish (is that the right adjective?) about the big bad world, and may be too happy to make deals that other countries would not countenance: giving away rebates, selling companies, handing over national security. And probably in negotiating post-Brexit free trade agreements.

It would be popular.

I don't think British politicians are uniquely naive, and this is a bit of a non-story. The most interesting part is that it appears Boris Johnson (though "sound" on Israel, apparently), is regarded as an idiot who is not actually responsible for anything.

Of course we knew that, but funny to see it confirmed by Mossad.

BoJo has been hung out to dry.

The FCO doesn't matter too much for May, and probably correctly as we are entering the era of protectionism and isolationism.

The future is not trade deals but trade barriers.

RobD

Gardenwalker said:

daodao said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

We are not about to declare war on Israel. What it reminds us, however, is that the Russian help for Trump is not unique or even unusual. Everyone is at it. And at the same time, everyone has embassy staff who are not really diplomats. It is a tough old world out there.

What is worrying is that too often British politicians seem naive and even pollyanna-ish (is that the right adjective?) about the big bad world, and may be too happy to make deals that other countries would not countenance: giving away rebates, selling companies, handing over national security. And probably in negotiating post-Brexit free trade agreements.

It would be popular.

I don't think British politicians are uniquely naive, and this is a bit of a non-story. The most interesting part is that it appears Boris Johnson (though "sound" on Israel, apparently), is regarded as an idiot who is not actually responsible for anything.

Of course we knew that, but funny to see it confirmed by Mossad.

But in the same sentence they talk about Alan Duncan being the man behind the throne at the FCO. Not sure which is more believable to be honest.

malcolmg

foxinsoxuk said:

MTimT said:

Really finding it hard to be interested in British politics until the Article 50 trigger is pulled.

Not long to wait!

No way will Abbot be Labour leader. There is no mechanism for a handover to a Corbynite successor, and even if there were such a contest would only take place after Labour had been routed in an election.

How could anyone even be stupid enough to believe it was possible unless the rest of the population were wiped out and she was the only person left alive.

Dura_Ace

foxinsoxuk said:

Dura_Ace said:

matt said:

Dura_Ace said:

The next Labour leader will positively, absolutely have to be a woman so maybe DA isn't beyond the realms of possibility. She also brings treasured BME status to the role. If she wins a GE she'd be the first PM since Spencer Perceval (who was also mental) to wear a wig.

It would be good, and good for their electability, if they focused on ability and competence rather than identity.

It would also be good if Taylor Swift were prepared to pleasure me in the French manner this evening but, much like your lemma, that is sadly not how the world works. Identity matters and gender identity matters most of all. Labour need a female leader to avoid looking obsolete. It would also be more of a symbolic clean break with whatever disaster Corbyn brews up at the next GE.

Its not going to be Abbott though!

The liz4leader.co.uk domain registration remains valid until May 2017. Plenty of time.

Innocent_Abroad

felix said:

Isn't the real reason because you approve of the fact that she sent her son to a private secondary school instead of trying to get him into a Grammar school like Harriet Harman?

Which is a pointer to how far & fast she'd move to the centre if she did succeed Corbyn. Remember, too, that she wasn't the Hard Left candidate to become MP for Hackney North - she got that gig because the Hard Left were split between two white men. I know - I was there in the selection conference .

Of course, she attended the wrong university, but, hey, no one's perfect...

SouthamObserver

foxinsoxuker said:

How strong is Momentum? it does sound as if it is falling into faction fighting. There is a useful summary of it here:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/12/31/mome-d31.html?view=article_mobile

The most significant thing about Momentum is the database of Corbyn supporters its completely unaccountable millionaire founder controls. This is much bigger than the organisation's membership and can be utilised to direct votes in future leadership and NEC elections.

malcolmg

Sandpit said:

Epic trolling from Alec Baldwin again, the SNL crew are loving Trump!
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/817782121993502720/photo/1

Baldwin fails to realise it is him that is the absolute t*******, Trump is the big dog and little runts have to get over it.

malcolmg

Dura_Ace said:

The next Labour leader will positively, absolutely have to be a woman so maybe DA isn't beyond the realms of possibility. She also brings treasured BME status to the role. If she wins a GE she'd be the first PM since Spencer Perceval (who was also mental) to wear a wig.

Seek Help

malcolmg

DecrepitJohnL said:

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

We are not about to declare war on Israel. What it reminds us, however, is that the Russian help for Trump is not unique or even unusual. Everyone is at it. And at the same time, everyone has embassy staff who are not really diplomats. It is a tough old world out there.

What is worrying is that too often British politicians seem naive and even pollyanna-ish (is that the right adjective?) about the big bad world, and may be too happy to make deals that other countries would not countenance: giving away rebates, selling companies, handing over national security. And probably in negotiating post-Brexit free trade agreements.

"Thick useless turnips" is what you are grasping for there I think

Gardenwalker

RobD said:

Gardenwalker said:

daodao said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

We are not about to declare war on Israel. What it reminds us, however, is that the Russian help for Trump is not unique or even unusual. Everyone is at it. And at the same time, everyone has embassy staff who are not really diplomats. It is a tough old world out there.

What is worrying is that too often British politicians seem naive and even pollyanna-ish (is that the right adjective?) about the big bad world, and may be too happy to make deals that other countries would not countenance: giving away rebates, selling companies, handing over national security. And probably in negotiating post-Brexit free trade agreements.

It would be popular.

I don't think British politicians are uniquely naive, and this is a bit of a non-story. The most interesting part is that it appears Boris Johnson (though "sound" on Israel, apparently), is regarded as an idiot who is not actually responsible for anything.

Of course we knew that, but funny to see it confirmed by Mossad.

But in the same sentence they talk about Alan Duncan being the man behind the throne at the FCO. Not sure which is more believable to be honest.

To the extent that FCO remains a "throne", it's actually quite believable - and reassuring - that Duncan should be the eminence grise.

malcolmg

Gardenwalker said:

RobD said:

Gardenwalker said:

daodao said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

It would be popular.

I don't think British politicians are uniquely naive, and this is a bit of a non-story. The most interesting part is that it appears Boris Johnson (though "sound" on Israel, apparently), is regarded as an idiot who is not actually responsible for anything.

Of course we knew that, but funny to see it confirmed by Mossad.

But in the same sentence they talk about Alan Duncan being the man behind the throne at the FCO. Not sure which is more believable to be honest.

To the extent that FCO remains a "throne", it's actually quite believable - and reassuring - that Duncan should be the eminence grise.

Two cheeks of the same arse comes to mind. Foreign Clowns Office is up to its usual standards.

DecrepitJohnL

Ken Livingstone for Labour leader? Today's story may well mean people become more sceptical about claims of anti-semitism.

Dura_Ace

Sandpit said:

Epic trolling from Alec Baldwin again, the SNL crew are loving Trump!
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/817782121993502720/photo/1

The 'Make' part is a wish or an instruction and should therefore be in the imperative mood. ie сде́лайте not сделать.

Roger

malcolmg said:

Sandpit said:

Epic trolling from Alec Baldwin again, the SNL crew are loving Trump!
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/817782121993502720/photo/1

Baldwin fails to realise it is him that is the absolute t*******, Trump is the big dog and little runts have to get over it.

McMussolini speaks......

Gardenwalker

The question for me is how long can the UK maintain its instinctive anti-Russia policy?

If Trump is true to his word (a big assumption), do we dare go against the foreign policy of our key ally? An ally whose favour we are now desperate to curry in these post-Brexit times?

We could continue hewing closer to the European view. But Europe itself is shaky. Italy and others are soft on Russia, and Germany itself has a strong pro-Russia party - currently at bay, but biding its time.

foxinsoxuk

Dura_Ace said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Dura_Ace said:

matt said:

Dura_Ace said:

The next Labour leader will positively, absolutely have to be a woman so maybe DA isn't beyond the realms of possibility. She also brings treasured BME status to the role. If she wins a GE she'd be the first PM since Spencer Perceval (who was also mental) to wear a wig.

It would be good, and good for their electability, if they focused on ability and competence rather than identity.

It would also be good if Taylor Swift were prepared to pleasure me in the French manner this evening but, much like your lemma, that is sadly not how the world works. Identity matters and gender identity matters most of all. Labour need a female leader to avoid looking obsolete. It would also be more of a symbolic clean break with whatever disaster Corbyn brews up at the next GE.

Its not going to be Abbott though!

The liz4leader.co.uk domain registration remains valid until May 2017. Plenty of time.

The one to watch is a different Leicester MP.

My tip for the top is Jon Ashworth. He is really a Brownite, yet one of the few willing to serve in Corbyns cabinet. Lots of trade union backing and would not be toxic to either faction. A real party apparatchik, competent at organising. He is the first shadow cabinet person to hit the campaign trail in Copeland. He is rather charisma free, and not yet an accomplished media performer. He has that sort of bland quality of a compromise candidate that enthuses few, but doesn't have many enemies either, like Hammond, Major or Farron. I have observed him a bit as he is MP for Leicester South, speaking below from leafy Leicester South

Jezza retweeted him here:

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/817715503837966336

felix

daodao said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

We are not about to declare war on Israel. What it reminds us, however, is that the Russian help for Trump is not unique or even unusual. Everyone is at it. And at the same time, everyone has embassy staff who are not really diplomats. It is a tough old world out there.

What is worrying is that too often British politicians seem naive and even pollyanna-ish (is that the right adjective?) about the big bad world, and may be too happy to make deals that other countries would not countenance: giving away rebates, selling companies, handing over national security. And probably in negotiating post-Brexit free trade agreements.

It would be popular.

It really wouldn't. It would be seen as a way ott response to what was clearly a nobody spouting off to try and impress his listeners.

Dura_Ace

foxinsoxuk said:

Dura_Ace said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Dura_Ace said:

matt said:

Dura_Ace said:

The next Labour leader will positively, absolutely have to be a woman so maybe DA isn't beyond the realms of possibility. She also brings treasured BME status to the role. If she wins a GE she'd be the first PM since Spencer Perceval (who was also mental) to wear a wig.

It would be good, and good for their electability, if they focused on ability and competence rather than identity.

It would also be good if Taylor Swift were prepared to pleasure me in the French manner this evening but, much like your lemma, that is sadly not how the world works. Identity matters and gender identity matters most of all. Labour need a female leader to avoid looking obsolete. It would also be more of a symbolic clean break with whatever disaster Corbyn brews up at the next GE.

Its not going to be Abbott though!

The liz4leader.co.uk domain registration remains valid until May 2017. Plenty of time.

The one to watch is a different Leicester MP.

My tip for the top is Jon Ashworth. He is really a Brownite, yet one of the few willing to serve in Corbyns cabinet. Lots of trade union backing and would not be toxic to either faction. A real party apparatchik, competent at organising. He is the first shadow cabinet person to hit the campaign trail in Copeland. He is rather charisma free, and not yet an accomplished media performer. He has that sort of bland quality of a compromise candidate that enthuses few, but doesn't have many enemies either, like Hammond, Major or Farron. I have observed him a bit as he is MP for Leicester South, speaking below from leafy Leicester South

Jezza retweeted him here:

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/817715503837966336

Great hair.

felix

Innocent_Abroad said:

felix said:

Isn't the real reason because you approve of the fact that she sent her son to a private secondary school instead of trying to get him into a Grammar school like Harriet Harman?

Which is a pointer to how far & fast she'd move to the centre if she did succeed Corbyn. Remember, too, that she wasn't the Hard Left candidate to become MP for Hackney North - she got that gig because the Hard Left were split between two white men. I know - I was there in the selection conference .

Of course, she attended the wrong university, but, hey, no one's perfect...

Her university is the one thing in her favour although I'm amazed she ever got in.

Alanbrooke

Gardenwalker said:

The question for me is how long can the UK maintain its instinctive anti-Russia policy?

If Trump is true to his word (a big assumption), do we dare go against the foreign policy of our key ally? An ally whose favour we are now desperate to curry in these post-Brexit times?

We could continue hewing closer to the European view. But Europe itself is shaky. Italy and others are soft on Russia, and Germany itself has a strong pro-Russia party - currently at bay, but biding its time.

I'd say it will be more an aggressive EU response to Brexit which will narrow the gap rather than Trump. Trump just makes it easier.

German foreign policy hasnt got a particularly good record n reading how to handle us brits

Alanbrooke

felix said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

felix said:

Isn't the real reason because you approve of the fact that she sent her son to a private secondary school instead of trying to get him into a Grammar school like Harriet Harman?

Which is a pointer to how far & fast she'd move to the centre if she did succeed Corbyn. Remember, too, that she wasn't the Hard Left candidate to become MP for Hackney North - she got that gig because the Hard Left were split between two white men. I know - I was there in the selection conference .

Of course, she attended the wrong university, but, hey, no one's perfect...

Her university is the one thing in her favour although I'm amazed she ever got in.

she's not that fat !

foxinsoxuk

Gardenwalker said:

RobD said:

Gardenwalker said:

daodao said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

We are not about to declare war on Israel. What it reminds us, however, is that the Russian help for Trump is not unique or even unusual. Everyone is at it.

I don't think British politicians are uniquely naive, and this is a bit of a non-story. The most interesting part is that it appears Boris Johnson (though "sound" on Israel, apparently), is regarded as an idiot who is not actually responsible for anything.

Of course we knew that, but funny to see it confirmed by Mossad.

But in the same sentence they talk about Alan Duncan being the man behind the throne at the FCO. Not sure which is more believable to be honest.

To the extent that FCO remains a "throne", it's actually quite believable - and reassuring - that Duncan should be the eminence grise.

Anotber local MP to me, and an arch Cameroon Remainer. I expect that May doesn't give him the time of day.

Alanbrooke

foxinsoxuk said:

Gardenwalker said:

RobD said:

Gardenwalker said:

daodao said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert Shai Masot, telling senior Labour MP Joan Ryan that he has obtained ‘more than £1 million’ to pay for sympathetic Labour MPs to visit Israel. Mr Masot also mocks ‘crazy’ Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

We are not about to declare war on Israel. What it reminds us, however, is that the Russian help for Trump is not unique or even unusual. Everyone is at it.

I don't think British politicians are uniquely naive, and this is a bit of a non-story. The most interesting part is that it appears Boris Johnson (though "sound" on Israel, apparently), is regarded as an idiot who is not actually responsible for anything.

Of course we knew that, but funny to see it confirmed by Mossad.

But in the same sentence they talk about Alan Duncan being the man behind the throne at the FCO. Not sure which is more believable to be honest.

To the extent that FCO remains a "throne", it's actually quite believable - and reassuring - that Duncan should be the eminence grise.

Anotber local MP to me, and an arch Cameroon Remainer. I expect that May doesn't give him the time of day.

The East Midlands appears to be uniquely gifted with MPs Mrs May allegedly doesnt like

AlastairMeeks

She's probably value at 100/1 given the current state of the Labour party. Not so obvious value, however, that I feel the need to increase my green position on her just yet.

SquareRoot

There isn't really anyone whom you could say Yes he's the one or she's the one.
Starmer is touted but he is up himself.. that's why we had all these televised announcements when he was the DPP.. To my mind it was all about promoting Keir Starmer. Why he was knighted is beyond me.

foxinsoxuk

@Alanbrooke

I think her dislike of Soubry and Clarke is fairly well documented! and the Sleaford nonentity proven.

AlastairMeeks

SquareRoot said:

There isn't really anyone whom you could say Yes he's the one or she's the one.
Starmer is touted but he is up himself.. that's why we had all these televised announcements when he was the DPP.. To my mind it was all about promoting Keir Starmer. Why he was knighted is beyond me.

The knighthood goes with the job.

Alanbrooke

foxinsoxuk said:

Alanbrooke said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Gardenwalker said:

RobD said:

Gardenwalker said:

daodao said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

daodao said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

This is going to be like catnip for some Corbynites

The Israeli Embassy made a shocking vow to ‘take down’ Boris Johnson’s Foreign Office deputy, a secret film reveals today.

The bombshell footage, covertly filmed in a London restaurant and obtained by The Mail on Sunday, shows a senior diplomat making the astonishing threat to target Sir Alan Duncan.

Extraordinarily, he is egged on by a senior aide to another Conservative Minister, Robert Halfon.

The video comes in a film claiming to expose the way that the Israeli government has ‘infiltrated’ both the Conservative and Labour parties via its embassy in the UK, using secret cash and covert support.

Further footage shows the Israeli diplomat, intelligence expert SCorbyn and his ‘weirdo’ supporters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098082/Astonishing-undercover-video-captures-diplomat-conspiring-rival-MP-s-aide-smear-Deputy-Foreign-Secretary.html

HMG has good cause to expel the ambassador and his staff and break off diplomatic relations. Given the views of opposition parties (Labour/LD/SNP/PC), this is likely to have cross-party support.

We are not about to declare war on Israel. What it reminds us, however, is that the Russian help for Trump is not unique or even unusual. Everyone is at it.

I don't think British politicians are uniquely naive, and this is a bit of a non-story. The most interesting part is that it appears Boris Johnson (though "sound" on Israel, apparently), is regarded as an idiot who is not actually responsible for anything.

Of course we knew that, but funny to see it confirmed by Mossad.

But in the same sentence they talk about Alan Duncan being the man behind the throne at the FCO. Not sure which is more believable to be honest.

To the extent that FCO remains a "throne", it's actually quite believable - and reassuring - that Duncan should be the eminence grise.

Anotber local MP to me, and an arch Cameroon Remainer. I expect that May doesn't give him the time of day.

The East Midlands appears to be uniquely gifted with MPs Mrs May allegedly doesnt like

I think her dislike of Soubry and Clarke is fairly well documented!

you forgot Nicky Morgan

but that's excusable, everyone dislikes Nicky Morgan :-)

JohnLoony

Abbëtt! Parti! Jemi gati kurdohere!

foxinsoxuk

foxinsoxuk said:

@Alanbrooke

I think her dislike of Soubry and Clarke is fairly well documented! and the Sleaford nonentity proven.

Morgan too. May is rather good at making enemies for a PM with a wafer thin majority.

Morris_Dancer

Dr. Foxinsox, to be fair, the emotional Soubry and EU-phile Clarke would be opposed to any PM actually going along with the referendum result.

foxinsoxuk

SouthamObserver said:

foxinsoxuker said:

How strong is Momentum? it does sound as if it is falling into faction fighting. There is a useful summary of it here:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/12/31/mome-d31.html?view=article_mobile

The most significant thing about Momentum is the database of Corbyn supporters its completely unaccountable millionaire founder controls. This is much bigger than the organisation's membership and can be utilised to direct votes in future leadership and NEC elections.

Yes, and his determination to have the Momentum conference online may well help with data harvesting, while the Trots prefer conventional caucuses that they can use entryist tactics on. That seems to be the fundamental issue in the Momentum spat, along with whether membership should be restricted to Labour members.

SquareRoot

AlastairMeeks said:

SquareRoot said:

There isn't really anyone whom you could say Yes he's the one or she's the one.
Starmer is touted but he is up himself.. that's why we had all these televised announcements when he was the DPP.. To my mind it was all about promoting Keir Starmer. Why he was knighted is beyond me.

The knighthood goes with the job.

well it ought not to

isam

Did I really read that Diane Abbot is 'a polished tv performer'?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LxRqMJHG56A

foxinsoxuk

Morris_Dancer said:

Dr. Foxinsox, to be fair, the emotional Soubry and EU-phile Clarke would be opposed to any PM actually going along with the referendum result.

That wafer thin majority is going to be a problem, though I think she lacks the political stomach to call an early "Who governs?" election. The precedent for Tory PMs is that they do not necessarily get the answer that they want.

OldKingCole

SquareRoot said:

AlastairMeeks said:

SquareRoot said:

There isn't really anyone whom you could say Yes he's the one or she's the one.
Starmer is touted but he is up himself.. that's why we had all these televised announcements when he was the DPP.. To my mind it was all about promoting Keir Starmer. Why he was knighted is beyond me.

The knighthood goes with the job.

well it ought not to

Dont see why ANY job should automatically bring a knighthood on appointment. On retirement, if the job has been done well, maybe. If we’re going to retain these archaic titles.

Morris_Dancer

Dr. Foxinsox, perhaps. Heath didn't have the referendum result backing him up, or face Corbyn, though.

malcolmg

Roger said:

malcolmg said:

Sandpit said:

Epic trolling from Alec Baldwin again, the SNL crew are loving Trump!
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/817782121993502720/photo/1

Baldwin fails to realise it is him that is the absolute t*******, Trump is the big dog and little runts have to get over it.

McMussolini speaks......

The site's Boris wannabe replies

SquareRoot

OldKingCole said:

SquareRoot said:

AlastairMeeks said:

SquareRoot said:

There isn't really anyone whom you could say Yes he's the one or she's the one.
Starmer is touted but he is up himself.. that's why we had all these televised announcements when he was the DPP.. To my mind it was all about promoting Keir Starmer. Why he was knighted is beyond me.

The knighthood goes with the job.

well it ought not to

Dont see why ANY job should automatically bring a knighthood on appointment. On retirement, if the job has been done well, maybe. If we’re going to retain these archaic titles.

some ambassadorial positions perhaps...

Sandpit

OldKingCole said:

SquareRoot said:

AlastairMeeks said:

SquareRoot said:

There isn't really anyone whom you could say Yes he's the one or she's the one.
Starmer is touted but he is up himself.. that's why we had all these televised announcements when he was the DPP.. To my mind it was all about promoting Keir Starmer. Why he was knighted is beyond me.

The knighthood goes with the job.

well it ought not to

Dont see why ANY job should automatically bring a knighthood on appointment. On retirement, if the job has been done well, maybe. If we’re going to retain these archaic titles.

Exactly. For too many high ranking public servants, the gong seems to be given out irrespective of performance in the role.

isam

Two Labour Heavyweights

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dWk29MhTb-g

malcolmg

Gardenwalker said:

The question for me is how long can the UK maintain its instinctive anti-Russia policy?

If Trump is true to his word (a big assumption), do we dare go against the foreign policy of our key ally? An ally whose favour we are now desperate to curry in these post-Brexit times?

We could continue hewing closer to the European view. But Europe itself is shaky. Italy and others are soft on Russia, and Germany itself has a strong pro-Russia party - currently at bay, but biding its time.

They will be kissing Trump's butt pdq

DavidL

Nah, she's a woman. Labour don't elect women as leader.

malcolmg

DavidL said:

Nah, she's a woman. Labour don't elect women as leader.

Hmmmmmmmmmm you sure

foxinsoxuk

Morris_Dancer said:

Dr. Foxinsox, perhaps. Heath didn't have the referendum result backing him up, or face Corbyn, though.

"No overall control" would be a very fitting verdict by the electorate on this government.

SquareRoot

foxinsoxuk said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dr. Foxinsox, perhaps. Heath didn't have the referendum result backing him up, or face Corbyn, though.

"No overall control" would be a very fitting verdict by the electorate on this government.

a bit previous Dr fox.. it hasn't been in office more than a few months

HYUFD

Abbott certainly has more chance of leading Labour into the next general election if Corbyn fell under the proverbial bus than Starmer

Sandpit

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

Epic trolling from Alec Baldwin again, the SNL crew are loving Trump!
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/817782121993502720/photo/1

The 'Make' part is a wish or an instruction and should therefore be in the imperative mood. ie сде́лайте not сделать.

Yes. Mrs Sandpit speaks Russian and said it sounds like a Google translate. A quick check of da Google says that she's completely right and SNL couldn't find a Russian speaker to do it properly!

Sandpit

HYUFD said:

Abbott certainly has more chance of leading Labour into the next general election if Corbyn fell under the proverbial bus than Starmer

Surely if Corbyn falls under a bus, it will be up to the MPs to nominate the candidates for his replacement, and they'd do their best to keep the next Corbynite in line well away from the members' ballot paper?

HYUFD

foxinsoxuk said:

@Alanbrooke

I think her dislike of Soubry and Clarke is fairly well documented! and the Sleaford nonentity proven.

Clarke respects May even if he does not always agree with her

DecrepitJohnL

HYUFD said:

Abbott certainly has more chance of leading Labour into the next general election if Corbyn fell under the proverbial bus than Starmer

What price can we get for the bus driver?

Dura_Ace

Sandpit said:

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

Epic trolling from Alec Baldwin again, the SNL crew are loving Trump!
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/817782121993502720/photo/1

The 'Make' part is a wish or an instruction and should therefore be in the imperative mood. ie сде́лайте not сделать.

Yes. Mrs Sandpit speaks Russian and said it sounds like a Google translate. A quick check of da Google says that she's completely right and SNL couldn't find a Russian speaker to do it properly!

All those Harvard degrees in the room and not one of them with a firm grasp on the povyelityel'noye naklonyeniye.

rkrkrk

There will surely only be one pro Corbyn candidate in the next election. Not convinced Abbott would be their first choice...

isam

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

Abbott certainly has more chance of leading Labour into the next general election if Corbyn fell under the proverbial bus than Starmer

Surely if Corbyn falls under a bus, it will be up to the MPs to nominate the candidates for his replacement, and they'd do their best to keep the next Corbynite in line well away from the members' ballot paper?

Good point. She only made it onto the ballot in 2010 because David Miliband nominated her. Corbo only made it in because people played silly buggers, trying to show how 'fair' they were. Can't see them doing it again, can't be far off 66/1 that Abbott gets 35 nominations

alex.

Does OGH get to sign off TSE's 'tips' before they get posted as thread headers? Any examples of previous tipping success that I've overlooked...?

Sandpit

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

Epic trolling from Alec Baldwin again, the SNL crew are loving Trump!
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/817782121993502720/photo/1

The 'Make' part is a wish or an instruction and should therefore be in the imperative mood. ie сде́лайте not сделать.

Yes. Mrs Sandpit speaks Russian and said it sounds like a Google translate. A quick check of da Google says that she's completely right and SNL couldn't find a Russian speaker to do it properly!

All those Harvard degrees in the room and not one of them with a firm grasp on the povyelityel'noye naklonyeniye.

It's the sort of thing one really expects them to check, but 99.999% of the audience probably aren't native Russian speakers and would understand exactly what it says from the fact it's written on a satirical Donald Trump's hat!

Roger

isam said:

Did I really read that Diane Abbot is 'a polished tv performer'?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LxRqMJHG56A

That was very illuminating. I don't normally like that sort of humiliating interview but this one was interesting not least for Portillo's extensive range of facial expressions.

(PS Under the circumstances I don't think she did that badly)

DavidL

malcolmg said:

DavidL said:

Nah, she's a woman. Labour don't elect women as leader.

Hmmmmmmmmmm you sure

We are a lot more enlightened up here than they are down south.

HYUFD

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

Abbott certainly has more chance of leading Labour into the next general election if Corbyn fell under the proverbial bus than Starmer

Surely if Corbyn falls under a bus, it will be up to the MPs to nominate the candidates for his replacement, and they'd do their best to keep the next Corbynite in line well away from the members' ballot paper?

40 MPs backed Corbyn in the no confidence vote before Smith challenged him so that would be enough to get Abbott or McDonnell on the ballot paper

Sandpit

Roger said:

isam said:

Did I really read that Diane Abbot is 'a polished tv performer'?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LxRqMJHG56A

That was very illuminating. I don't normally like that sort of humiliating interview but this one was interesting not least for Portillo's extensive range of facial expressions.

(PS Under the circumstances I don't think she did that badly)

She obviously thought, even expected, that her 'friend' Andrew wouldn't go into hard political interview mode on a generally more light hearted show. Well done to him, for exposing Abbot as the hypocritical racist that she is.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Roger, all Diane Abbott interviews should have Michael Portillo in the background, trying not to laugh.

Innocent_Abroad

Sandpit said:

Roger said:

isam said:

Did I really read that Diane Abbot is 'a polished tv performer'?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LxRqMJHG56A

That was very illuminating. I don't normally like that sort of humiliating interview but this one was interesting not least for Portillo's extensive range of facial expressions.

(PS Under the circumstances I don't think she did that badly)

She obviously thought, even expected, that her 'friend' Andrew wouldn't go into hard political interview mode on a generally more light hearted show. Well done to him, for exposing Abbot as the hypocritical racist that she is.

Only white people can be racist.

DavidL

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Roger, all Diane Abbott interviews should have Michael Portillo in the background, trying not to laugh.

That is the best part of the interview. Watching Portillo' face.

williamglenn

UK at risk of Brexit catastrophe, warns Canada

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/07/uk-at-risk-of-brexit-trade-catastrophe

IanB2

Abbott's only chance is if the election result is so bad that many of the more moderate MPs (who tend to be in the more marginal seats) lose their seats, not only leaving a parliamentary party more conducive to her views, but lowering the nomination threshold which is defined as a percentage of the total number of MPs.

Pulpstar

When you find yourself betting on Diane Abbott

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Black_Rook

Labour reboot going swimmingly:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/818037477445341184

On topic, I've joked in the past about Diane Abbott being one of the likely Corbyn successors. But in truth, she's a serious contender. So long as the radical pseudo-Marxist majority amongst the membership continues, then the only barrier to another hard Left candidate getting onto the ballot whenever Corbyn eventually goes is the 15% of PLP nomination threshold. This could easily be negated either by the Corbynites gaining control of the NEC and changing the rules; by Labour splitting and many of the moderate MPs deserting to form a new party; or by Labour being reduced to a rump in Parliament, whilst the balance of the PLP simultaneously moves further Left due to deselections.

She has the correct politics for the party as currently constituted, and she's not white. If Labour can finally get over its problem with female leadership candidates, then why not?

HYUFD

williamglenn said:

UK at risk of Brexit catastrophe, warns Canada

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/07/uk-at-risk-of-brexit-trade-catastrophe

A Canadian 'authority' who says a trade deal could take a decade to negotiate is hardly the same thing as saying the Canadian government warns of Brexit catastrophe

surbiton

Oh dear ! This is definitely worse than a AV thread. I will tell you I would back Corbyn a thousand times compared to her and I have never voted for Corbyn. I am neither a racist nor a misogynist.

Can you imagine just one bet brought the odds down 100/1 to 66/1.

surbiton

williamglenn said:

UK at risk of Brexit catastrophe, warns Canada

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/07/uk-at-risk-of-brexit-trade-catastrophe

Don't worry. He will be trashed like Rogers. Unless you toe the correct line the bullypapers will really go after you.

Black_Rook

https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/status/818037811219558400

surbiton

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Roger, all Diane Abbott interviews should have Michael Portillo in the background, trying not to laugh.

On TW, she was almost sensible.

TGOHF

First time I've watched Sophie Ridge's show. A balanced panel puts it ahead of Marr already. Sky will no doubt get a lot of credit for allowing a young female lead...

daodao

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

UK at risk of Brexit catastrophe, warns Canada

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/07/uk-at-risk-of-brexit-trade-catastrophe

A Canadian 'authority' who says a trade deal could take a decade to negotiate is hardly the same thing as saying the Canadian government warns of Brexit catastrophe

But Sir Ivan Rogers said that the same thing and he is/was in a position to know the real situation in Brussels. He is going because HMG didn't want the unpalatable truth revealed at this stage, namely that the only real options on the table are not to trigger A50 or have a painfully hard Brexit. Frankly, the EU27 hold the whip hand.

surbiton

isam said:

Two Labour Heavyweights

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dWk29MhTb-g

I will go for Emily anytime. Recently she has been good [ comparatively ]

malcolmg

DavidL said:

malcolmg said:

DavidL said:

Nah, she's a woman. Labour don't elect women as leader.

Hmmmmmmmmmm you sure

We are a lot more enlightened up here than they are down south.

Only some unfortunately David, we do have our share of neanderthals

DavidL

Black_Rook said:

https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/status/818037811219558400

In fairness it is a somewhat more nuanced reply than its unfair to ask. Just shows yet again how careful politicians have to be with words.