Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP has suffered most in real elections in LEAVE areas since

13

Comments

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    The importance of money in elections is overrated, Trump beat Hillary despite spending significantly less than she did. Given a choice between losing some money and losing your base you choose the former

    Yes. I think the internet has levelled the playing field. A clever meme on social media (and Trump used Twitter brilliantly) does more than any posters or most TV ads.

    So you only need to pay one guy a lot of cash to come up with smart ideas, rather than spend squillions on broadcast media.

    "Take Back Control" basically won the referendum by itself.

    Yes having a clear message is key, far more than spending vast sums without having much to say
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    Dadge said:

    The EU will do a Norway-style (Soft Brexit) deal with the UK if the UK is willing to accept the EU's terms, no more, no less.

    When the British political class as a whole is left with this stark choice, they will fold.
    May is certainly not going to fold and lose half her voters to the Kippers, sorry she is not that stupid. At the end of the day it is she who will decide what to offer the EU not the political class, she will most likely offer a job offer requirement and limited budget contributions which is as much as she can do and if the EU agree some form of trade deal all to the good, if not she could not have offered any more
  • Options
    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    *Buffs Nails*

    I posted exactly that after the Tory conference and a few PBers pooh-poohed it.

    See my sources were right, Brexit has the potential to lead to a donors' strike it.
    What's he gonna do, stop funding the Tories so Corbyn's Labour has a better chance of winning?

    Exactly. He has nowhere to go.
    No, it forces pressure on Mrs May, Labour via the Unions are well funded, does Mrs May really want to go down in history as the Tory leader that didn't win a majority against Corbyn.

    Why give you money to someone who ruins your business.
    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease I donor by keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
    Hm. May is (as ever) stuck between a rock and a hard place. More of her party want Hard Brexit than Soft, but that means pursuing a policy supported by only one third of voters. So pursuing HB will stop some Tories voting Ukip, but risks leaking more support to the LibDems.

    The irony of her "Brexit means Brexit" line is that it's a lot truer for the EU than it is for her. Leaving the EU means leaving the single market and ending free movement. The idea that she "is preparing to give an ultimatum to the European Union that the UK will quit the single market unless it is allowed to opt out of free movement rules" ( https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/82099/theresa-may-prioritise ) is risible.

    The EU will do a Norway-style (Soft Brexit) deal with the UK if the UK is willing to accept the EU's terms, no more, no less.
    We may as well stay in as agreeing a Norway deal requires full freedom of movement
  • Options
    LEAVE 52%
    REMAIN 48%

    :innocent:
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,101
    HYUFD said:

    Dadge said:

    The EU will do a Norway-style (Soft Brexit) deal with the UK if the UK is willing to accept the EU's terms, no more, no less.

    When the British political class as a whole is left with this stark choice, they will fold.
    May is certainly not going to fold and lose half her voters to the Kippers, sorry she is not that stupid. At the end of the day it is she who will decide what to offer the EU not the political class, she will most likely offer a job offer requirement and limited budget contributions which is as much as she can do and if the EU agree some form of trade deal all to the good, if not she could not have offered any more
    And it's the EU who will tell her what she can have. The positioning on hard Brexit is a clear bluff which she will be called on.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Wtf!? BBc 10'oclock news bulletin just put the Florida shooting second to trump having an argie with the spooks.....
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    edited January 2017
    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    *Buffs Nails*

    I posted exactly that after the Tory conference and a few PBers pooh-poohed it.

    See my sources were right, Brexit has the potential to lead to a donors' strike it.
    What's he gonna do, stop funding the Tories so Corbyn's Labour has a better chance of winning?

    Exactly. He has nowhere to go.
    No, it forces pressure on Mrs May, Labour via the Unions are well funded, does Mrs May really want to go down in history as the Tory leader that didn't win a majority against Corbyn.

    Why give you money to someone who ruins your business.
    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease I donor by keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
    Hm. May is (as ever) stuck between a rock and a hard place. More of her party want Hard Brexit than Soft, but that means pursuing a policy supported by only one third of voters. So pursuing HB will stop some Tories voting Ukip, but risks leaking more support to the LibDems.

    The irony of her "Brexit means Brexit" line is that it's a lot truer for the EU than it is for her. Leaving the EU means leaving the single market and ending free movement. The idea that she "is preparing to give an ultimatum to the European Union that the UK will quit the single market unless it is allowed to opt out of free movement rules" ( https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/82099/theresa-may-prioritise ) is risible.

    The EU will do a Norway-style (Soft Brexit) deal with the UK if the UK is willing to accept the EU's terms, no more, no less.
    Under FPTP May is more at risk of losing the 47% of her voters who back hard Brexit to UKIP than the 34% who back soft Brexit to the LDs. As I have said she most likely she will do a fudge in between soft and hard Brexit but she is certainly not going to agree a deal with no free movement controls at all
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    https://twitter.com/CouncilDataUK/status/817488138935369729

    Ahead, Anorak Factor 17!

    I'm already following, of course...
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited January 2017

    RobD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/817482097350811648

    *Buffs Nails*

    I posted exactly that after the Tory conference and a few PBers pooh-poohed it.

    See my sources were right, Brexit has the potential to lead to a donors' strike it.
    What's he gonna do, stop funding the Tories so Corbyn's Labour has a better chance of winning?

    Exactly. He has nowhere to go.
    No, it forces pressure on Mrs May, Labour via the Unions are well funded, does Mrs May really want to go down in history as the Tory leader that didn't win a majority against Corbyn.

    Why give you money to someone who ruins your business.
    And how good would it look if she changed her policy based on what a few rich donors wanted?
    Rich donors do have influence, parties say they don't but it is ridiculous to say donors don't lobby their views. Whether a PM or LOTO takes on board somebodies views is another question, I should imagine some donors have quite dotty opinions on some subjects.

    In regard to this particular donor, if leaving the single market ruins his business why would you donate to a party that makes your life more difficult? A similar process goes on once a party gains power as the new government makes decisions that gradually make some people's lives who voted them in more difficult. I voted Tory in 2015 but will not vote for them in 2020 or whenever the next GE is called. I don't blame the former donor for withdrawing his funding, if it means a hung parliament and Brexit has not been executed he gets what he wants.....


    And if it means that A50 has been triggered, May loses and Corbyn gets in, and turns Britain into a nightmare state, separated from the EU, what does he get then?

    A50 could be withdrawn, if the EU wanted the UK to stay I have not seen any reason for the process to be reversed. If May gets as shit deal as I suspect she may withdraw A50 herself. If she goes to the country and gets a Ted Heath result circa 1974 and the UK has a parliamentary majority for continued membership of the EU. So, what I am saying is A50 being triggered does not mean that should the current government fall and an alternative is put in place that A50 cannot be rescinded.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031

    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    *Buffs Nails*

    I posted exactly that after the Tory conference and a few PBers pooh-poohed it.

    See my sources were right, Brexit has the potential to lead to a donors' strike it.
    What's he gonna do, stop funding the Tories so Corbyn's Labour has a better chance of winning?

    Exactly. He has nowhere to go.
    No, it forces pressure on Mrs May, Labour via the Unions are well funded, does Mrs May really want to go down in history as the Tory leader that didn't win a majority against Corbyn.

    Why give you money to someone who ruins your business.
    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease I donor by keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
    Hm. May is (as ever) stuck between a rock and a hard place. More of her party want Hard Brexit than Soft, but that means pursuing a policy supported by only one third of voters. So pursuing HB will stop some Tories voting Ukip, but risks leaking more support to the LibDems.

    The irony of her "Brexit means Brexit" line is that it's a lot truer for the EU than it is for her. Leaving the EU means leaving the single market and ending free movement. The idea that she "is preparing to give an ultimatum to the European Union that the UK will quit the single market unless it is allowed to opt out of free movement rules" ( https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/82099/theresa-may-prioritise ) is risible.

    The EU will do a Norway-style (Soft Brexit) deal with the UK if the UK is willing to accept the EU's terms, no more, no less.
    We may as well stay in as agreeing a Norway deal requires full freedom of movement
    I think there is a tendency on this board to talk as if there were two options:

    (1) Anyone from the EU can come here and work here and claim benefits here.
    (2) Everybody coming here to work - irrespective of origin - will require a special work visa dependent on points.

    But there are hundreds of options in the middle: work, but no benefits; visa automatic with job offer; stay dependent on buying private health insurance, etc. etc. etc.

    I suspect we'll end up in the middle somewhere.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    nunu said:

    Wtf!? BBc 10'oclock news bulletin just put the Florida shooting second to trump having an argie with the spooks.....

    It was a tragedy but sad to say 5 dead in a shooting in the US is pretty par for the course over there
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    HYUFD said:

    Dadge said:

    The EU will do a Norway-style (Soft Brexit) deal with the UK if the UK is willing to accept the EU's terms, no more, no less.

    When the British political class as a whole is left with this stark choice, they will fold.
    May is certainly not going to fold and lose half her voters to the Kippers, sorry she is not that stupid. At the end of the day it is she who will decide what to offer the EU not the political class, she will most likely offer a job offer requirement and limited budget contributions which is as much as she can do and if the EU agree some form of trade deal all to the good, if not she could not have offered any more
    And it's the EU who will tell her what she can have. The positioning on hard Brexit is a clear bluff which she will be called on.
    *Trigger warning* for Mayflies

    http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21713837-after-six-months-what-new-prime-minister-stands-still-unclearperhaps-even
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    LEAVE 52%
    REMAIN 48%

    :innocent:

    Well said Sunil. It's quite amazing how many people seem to ignore that key fact whilst dreaming up ever more implausible scenarios for how Brexit will be thwarted.
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited January 2017
    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    Your boyo that did the shooting at the airport in Ft Lauderdale had taken an interest in Jihadi stuff in the past. How deep is unclear.

    Wow. Link?
    Reportedly hung around Jihadi web forums in the past but its hard from the sketch to say how much this is a present thing.
    Just done some digging. Sounds like you're right. Lived within walking distance of the only mosque in Alaska. Known to FBI for ISIS ravings.
    If the child porn rumour about this one is correct it could be a rather oblique piece in the evidence chain. You'd be surprised how much of certain types of pornography is found on many an IS sympathiser's seized computer. There are some who consider it a small part of the profiling template.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/817482097350811648

    *Buffs Nails*

    I posted exactly that after the Tory conference and a few PBers pooh-poohed it.

    See my sources were right, Brexit has the potential to lead to a donors' strike it.
    What's he gonna do, stop funding the Tories so Corbyn's Labour has a better chance of winning?

    Exactly. He has nowhere to go.
    No, it forces pressure on Mrs May, Labour via the Unions are well funded, does Mrs May really want to go down in history as the Tory leader that didn't win a majority against Corbyn.

    Why give you money to someone who ruins your business.
    And how good would it look if she changed her policy based on what a few rich donors wanted?
    Rich donors do have influence, parties say they don't but it is ridiculous to say donors don't lobby their views. Whether a PM or LOTO takes on board somebodies views is another question, I should imagine some donors have quite dotty opinions on some subjects.

    In regard to this particular donor, if leaving the single market ruins his business why would you donate to a party that makes your life more difficult? A similar process goes on once a party gains power as the new government makes decisions that gradually make some people's lives who voted them in more difficult. I voted Tory in 2015 but will not vote for them in 2020 or whenever the next GE is called. I don't blame the former donor for withdrawing his funding, if it means a hung parliament and Brexit has not been executed he gets what he wants.....


    And if it means that A50 has been triggered, May loses and Corbyn gets in, and turns Britain into a nightmare state, separated from the EU, what does he get then?

    A50 could be withdrawn, if the EU wanted the UK to stay I have not seen any reason for the process to be reversed. If May gets as shit deal as I suspect she may withdraw A50 herself. If she goes to the country and gets a Ted Heath result circa 1974 and the UK has a parliamentary majority for continued membership of the EU. So, what I am saying is A50 being triggered does not mean that should the current government fall and an alternative is put in place that it cannot A50 cannot be rescinded.
    You do not know if A50 can be withdrawn once served.

    This is being referred to the ECJ and they will make a ruling in due course
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    HYUFD said:

    Dadge said:

    The EU will do a Norway-style (Soft Brexit) deal with the UK if the UK is willing to accept the EU's terms, no more, no less.

    When the British political class as a whole is left with this stark choice, they will fold.
    May is certainly not going to fold and lose half her voters to the Kippers, sorry she is not that stupid. At the end of the day it is she who will decide what to offer the EU not the political class, she will most likely offer a job offer requirement and limited budget contributions which is as much as she can do and if the EU agree some form of trade deal all to the good, if not she could not have offered any more
    And it's the EU who will tell her what she can have. The positioning on hard Brexit is a clear bluff which she will be called on.
    Well she will just have to walk away then, if the EU refuse even a job offer requirement and some budget contributions and sulk and still say no trade deal at all the British people will just shrug their shoulders, say she did her best, she will leave on WTO terms, call an election and win it comfortably
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,101
    rcs1000 said:

    But there are hundreds of options in the middle: work, but no benefits; visa automatic with job offer; stay dependent on buying private health insurance, etc. etc. etc.

    I saw a suggestion to have a long-term residency requirement for access to in work benefits of say 5 years. This would be no problem for people who had grown up here, but would mean a high bar for new EU migrants. On the face of it it would be non-discriminatory since the same rule would apply for everyone.
  • Options
    steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    TSE piles in to the PM on behalf of rich Tory donors. Some Remainers just don't get it.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    LEAVE 52%
    REMAIN 48%

    :innocent:

    £350M for NHS :innocent:

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    TSE piles in to the PM on behalf of rich Tory donors. Some Remainers just don't get it.

    Rich donors can buy a lot of political influence. Ask Aaron Banks, or Trumps cabinet of multi-million dollar donors.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    More proof of the popularity of the world's most valuable sports franchise - I am told by a fan:

    NFL regular season viewing figures are out. Ratings were down 14% before the election, and by 1% after it, for a season decline of 8%. 5 of the top 6 most watched post-election games featured America's Team. The Boyz are back.
  • Options

    TSE piles in to the PM on behalf of rich Tory donors. Some Remainers just don't get it.

    I'm not agreeing with it, just pointing out political reality.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758
    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    rcs1000 said:

    But there are hundreds of options in the middle: work, but no benefits; visa automatic with job offer; stay dependent on buying private health insurance, etc. etc. etc.

    I saw a suggestion to have a long-term residency requirement for access to in work benefits of say 5 years. This would be no problem for people who had grown up here, but would mean a high bar for new EU migrants. On the face of it it would be non-discriminatory since the same rule would apply for everyone.
    Seems like a pretty sensible idea. I wonder why something like this wasn't pursued. All Cameron got was a temporary freeze on in-work benefits for new arrivals for seven years.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    But there are hundreds of options in the middle: work, but no benefits; visa automatic with job offer; stay dependent on buying private health insurance, etc. etc. etc.

    I saw a suggestion to have a long-term residency requirement for access to in work benefits of say 5 years. This would be no problem for people who had grown up here, but would mean a high bar for new EU migrants. On the face of it it would be non-discriminatory since the same rule would apply for everyone.
    Seems like a pretty sensible idea. I wonder why something like this wasn't pursued. All Cameron got was a temporary freeze on in-work benefits for new arrivals for seven years.
    A five year residency qualification for tax credits would be perfectly possible within the EU, as long as it applied to UK citizens too.

  • Options
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    But there are hundreds of options in the middle: work, but no benefits; visa automatic with job offer; stay dependent on buying private health insurance, etc. etc. etc.

    I saw a suggestion to have a long-term residency requirement for access to in work benefits of say 5 years. This would be no problem for people who had grown up here, but would mean a high bar for new EU migrants. On the face of it it would be non-discriminatory since the same rule would apply for everyone.
    Seems like a pretty sensible idea. I wonder why something like this wasn't pursued. All Cameron got was a temporary freeze on in-work benefits for new arrivals for seven years.
    Probably Sir Ivan Rogers no can do attitude
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The poll asked them would they back hard Brexit even if it meant higher unemployment, a slowdown in the economy and less money to spend on key services and they still said yes.
  • Options
    steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019

    TSE piles in to the PM on behalf of rich Tory donors. Some Remainers just don't get it.

    Rich donors can buy a lot of political influence. Ask Aaron Banks, or Trumps cabinet of multi-million dollar donors.
    If you say so. I don't think you understand what's important to this PM though.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    But there are hundreds of options in the middle: work, but no benefits; visa automatic with job offer; stay dependent on buying private health insurance, etc. etc. etc.

    I saw a suggestion to have a long-term residency requirement for access to in work benefits of say 5 years. This would be no problem for people who had grown up here, but would mean a high bar for new EU migrants. On the face of it it would be non-discriminatory since the same rule would apply for everyone.
    Seems like a pretty sensible idea. I wonder why something like this wasn't pursued. All Cameron got was a temporary freeze on in-work benefits for new arrivals for seven years.
    A five year residency qualification for tax credits would be perfectly possible within the EU, as long as it applied to UK citizens too.

    Which would only really cause a problem for returning expats. A very small number of people. Sounds to me as though that would have been an excellent way to disincentives immigration.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The poll asked them would they back hard Brexit even if it meant higher unemployment, a slowdown in the economy and less money to spend on key services and they still said yes.
    I haven't seen the poll but they probably don't actually believe hard Brexit means higher unemployment, a slowdown in the economy and less money to spend on key services, so they said, Yes.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,856

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    *Buffs Nails*

    I posted exactly that after the Tory conference and a few PBers pooh-poohed it.

    See my sources were right, Brexit has the potential to lead to a donors' strike it.
    What's he gonna do, stop funding the Tories so Corbyn's Labour has a better chance of winning?

    Exactly. He has nowhere to go.
    No, it forces pressure on Mrs May, Labour via the Unions are well funded, does Mrs May really want to go down in history as the Tory leader that didn't win a majority against Corbyn.

    Why give you money to someone who ruins your business.
    The Conservative Party has millions of supporters.

    It can survive one man throwing a strop.
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    TSE piles in to the PM on behalf of rich Tory donors. Some Remainers just don't get it.

    Rich donors can buy a lot of political influence. Ask Aaron Banks, or Trumps cabinet of multi-million dollar donors.
    If you say so. I don't think you understand what's important to this PM though.

    I don't think anyone understands what MAY finds important other than her being PM. She is a complete blank sheet of paper and utterly useless - reminds me of Gordon Brown.....
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,101

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    But there are hundreds of options in the middle: work, but no benefits; visa automatic with job offer; stay dependent on buying private health insurance, etc. etc. etc.

    I saw a suggestion to have a long-term residency requirement for access to in work benefits of say 5 years. This would be no problem for people who had grown up here, but would mean a high bar for new EU migrants. On the face of it it would be non-discriminatory since the same rule would apply for everyone.
    Seems like a pretty sensible idea. I wonder why something like this wasn't pursued. All Cameron got was a temporary freeze on in-work benefits for new arrivals for seven years.
    Probably Sir Ivan Rogers no can do attitude
    Because he should have asked his civil servants and ministers instead of asking the EU. Is it any wonder he got a perplexed reaction?
  • Options

    TSE piles in to the PM on behalf of rich Tory donors. Some Remainers just don't get it.

    Rich donors can buy a lot of political influence. Ask Aaron Banks, or Trumps cabinet of multi-million dollar donors.
    If you say so. I don't think you understand what's important to this PM though.

    I don't think anyone understands what MAY finds important other than her being PM. She is a complete blank sheet of paper and utterly useless - reminds me of Gordon Brown.....
    Why not wait until the end of the month when she will have made her speech on the process and demands in her negotiations. You may well be very surprised how clear and determined she will be
  • Options
    steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    Well Mr Taxman, you might think the PM's useless. The opinion polls seem to suggest many others disagree. You may be better waiting a while before delivering such an unequivocal verdict. If she's not the only game in town, feel free to nominate an alternative.
  • Options
    Anyone watching White House Down? It's hilarious, a big, fat, pre-emptive metaphor for Trump taking over the presidency.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    edited January 2017
    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,856

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    If.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,856
    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    edited January 2017
    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    Yup, if the Cameroons get rid of May they will end up with Leadsom or Fox, not Osborne. Then it really will be hard Brexit
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Well Mr Taxman, you might think the PM's useless. The opinion polls seem to suggest many others disagree. You may be better waiting a while before delivering such an unequivocal verdict. If she's not the only game in town, feel free to nominate an alternative.

    It would have been easy to make this argument during Gordon Brown's honeymoon period
  • Options
    steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Ok Mr FF43 and Mr Taxman, you seem to know a lot a lot about what so called hard brexiteers think. Brexit had big majorities in Hull, Huddersfield, Halifax, Bradford, Bolton, Barnsley, Burnley, Blackburn, Doncaster, Rotherham, Sunderland, Middlesborough Hartlepool and countless other towns. Since you apparently know so much about what these people think how about you tell us how many residents of these towns you've spoken to since the vote?

  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Well Mr Taxman, you might think the PM's useless. The opinion polls seem to suggest many others disagree. You may be better waiting a while before delivering such an unequivocal verdict. If she's not the only game in town, feel free to nominate an alternative.

    They said that Brown was the only game in town in 2007, the point is many could fill her shoes. The list of potential replacements is long and broad. Whether they would want to do it now is another question. Who do I think would be interesting in the long run? Mark Harper.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    edited January 2017

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Wrong way round, it was the lower skilled and the poorly paid who had the highest voteshare for Leave, a majority of the financially wealthy and educated professionals voted Remain. The former have little to lose anyway, unlike the latter. Hence the most middle class party, the LDs, are the most pro soft Brexit/Remain and the most working class party, UKIP, the most pro hard Brexit and immigration controls
  • Options
    steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    Freggles said:

    Well Mr Taxman, you might think the PM's useless. The opinion polls seem to suggest many others disagree. You may be better waiting a while before delivering such an unequivocal verdict. If she's not the only game in town, feel free to nominate an alternative.

    It would have been easy to make this argument during Gordon Brown's honeymoon period
    Ok go on then. You nominate an a viable alternative to May. The Tories at least tried to have a proper contest before May prevailed. Any number of Labour MP's thought David Miliband was preferable to Brown, they were just cowed into towing the line.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
  • Options

    Well Mr Taxman, you might think the PM's useless. The opinion polls seem to suggest many others disagree. You may be better waiting a while before delivering such an unequivocal verdict. If she's not the only game in town, feel free to nominate an alternative.

    They said that Brown was the only game in town in 2007, the point is many could fill her shoes. The list of potential replacements is long and broad. Whether they would want to do it now is another question. Who do I think would be interesting in the long run? Mark Harper.
    'The list is many and long' - please name your candidates
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    *Buffs Nails*

    I posted exactly that after the Tory conference and a few PBers pooh-poohed it.

    See my sources were right, Brexit has the potential to lead to a donors' strike it.
    What's he gonna do, stop funding the Tories so Corbyn's Labour has a better chance of winning?

    Exactly. He has nowhere to go.
    No, it forces pressure on Mrs May, Labour via the Unions are well funded, does Mrs May really want to go down in history as the Tory leader that didn't win a majority against Corbyn.

    Why give you money to someone who ruins your business.
    The Conservative Party has millions of supporters.

    It can survive one man throwing a strop.
    It's even conceivable that this sort of publicity will sway some voters round to vote for the Conservatives. It might put Mrs May into the light of someone prepared to stand up to wealthy donors.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Freggles said:

    Well Mr Taxman, you might think the PM's useless. The opinion polls seem to suggest many others disagree. You may be better waiting a while before delivering such an unequivocal verdict. If she's not the only game in town, feel free to nominate an alternative.

    It would have been easy to make this argument during Gordon Brown's honeymoon period
    Ok go on then. You nominate an a viable alternative to May. The Tories at least tried to have a proper contest before May prevailed. Any number of Labour MP's thought David Miliband was preferable to Brown, they were just cowed into towing the line.

    Hammond. The only competent one in the cabinet.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Aren't you concerned about tariffs on British books
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,496
    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    Luckily the Cameroons are useless. Look at Osborne. When Portillo and Hague were cast out of power, they gained a new likeability and career rejuvination followed. Osborne by contrast has engaged in transparent hissy plots.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Good for you. Also good for those people who get the tax you pay on that redistributed in benefits especially the polish immigrants getting tax credits......
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    Try selling that on the doorsteps of Copeland.
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    Well Mr Taxman, you might think the PM's useless. The opinion polls seem to suggest many others disagree. You may be better waiting a while before delivering such an unequivocal verdict. If she's not the only game in town, feel free to nominate an alternative.

    They said that Brown was the only game in town in 2007, the point is many could fill her shoes. The list of potential replacements is long and broad. Whether they would want to do it now is another question. Who do I think would be interesting in the long run? Mark Harper.
    Mr Brown was the only game in town then because he'd spent years seeing off any potential contenders.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277
    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Aren't you concerned about tariffs on British books
    There are weird scary Brexit rumours circling the publishing world - problems with double tax exemptions. I suspect nothing terrible will happen.

    The more worrying development for authors is the government's intention to make all self employed people file quarterly tax returns, as I understand it? What a bore.

    I seem to recall that the quarterly piece of HMRC nonsense has been quietly shelved. I am willing to be corrected however.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Aren't you concerned about tariffs on British books
    There are weird scary Brexit rumours circling the publishing world - problems with double tax exemptions. I suspect nothing terrible will happen.

    The more worrying development for authors is the government's intention to make all self employed people file quarterly tax returns, as I understand it? What a bore.

    I thought it was all companies. My accountant would love that. Entrepreneurs less so.

    (My Private work is done via a ltd co.)

  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Well done. was this consistent before the crash or new business in the pound or new business because of it or did you release a new book (unrelated)?
  • Options
    The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Good for you. Also good for those people who get the tax you pay on that redistributed in benefits especially the polish immigrants getting tax credits......
    Brexit has basically given me a 15-20% pay rise.

    *hiccups*
    Indeed, all hard Brexit will mean is WTO tariffs and the exchange rate will fall closer to Pound/ Euro parity. I am well aware of this. But I am glad someone has done well out of Brexit because I have not!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    Try selling that on the doorsteps of Copeland.
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    The proposed change is not until 2018 and those who are so committed to final salary pensions will be voting Labour anyway. If the Tories win Copeland it will largely be through squeezing the UKIP vote with a few Labour votes lost to the LDs
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    Luckily the Cameroons are useless. Look at Osborne. When Portillo and Hague were cast out of power, they gained a new likeability and career rejuvination followed. Osborne by contrast has engaged in transparent hissy plots.
    Tenuous. Portillo has only gained likeability and rejuvenation on leaving parliament and becoming a train buff. Hague was clearly an idiot when did not listen to the advice (from Ken Clarke iirc?) that he was planning to run for leadership far too soon. Only when he became someone clearly in the twilight of his career who wrote history books did he become one of that illustrious club - "Great Men who did not quite make it to being PM".

    Osborne may well fail in his long term goal. But he has something going for him that has an almost forgotten, rather romantic quality to it: he carried on in parliament, forsaking the other offers.

    ... so far.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Good for you. Also good for those people who get the tax you pay on that redistributed in benefits especially the polish immigrants getting tax credits......
    Brexit has basically given me a 15-20% pay rise.

    *hiccups*
    Hold on. Not wishing to be a party pooper. But. These are based on books in this week's charts? If it is anything like my very minor sales of my computer book you won't get paid for months. Presumably the sterling rate is the one on the day of payment?
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    SeanT said:

    nunu said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Well done. was this consistent before the crash or new business in the pound or new business because of it or did you release a new book (unrelated)?
    I've got two different books in the German top ten bestseller lists, as of this week (Ice Twins in mass market paperback, Fire Child in full price hardback)

    The joy of being popular in Germany is that 1. they still have net price book agreement (so hardbacks sell at €15, there's no discounting) and 2. German readers are loyal and persistent (once you're in the list, you tend to stay there, Brits are much more fickle) and 3. it's a massive market, 3rd biggest in the world behind America and China (Japan is 4th, UK 5th)

    Germany alone, if you crack it, can provide an author with a handsome income. And that is very rare these days.

    Danke, Deutschland.
    Really well done. On reflection it was a dumb question, people don't buy books based on slight differences on prices. LOL.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    nunu said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Well done. was this consistent before the crash or new business in the pound or new business because of it or did you release a new book (unrelated)?
    I've got two different books in the German top ten bestseller lists, as of this week (Ice Twins in mass market paperback, Fire Child in full price hardback)

    The joy of being popular in Germany is that 1. they still have net price book agreement (so hardbacks sell at €15, there's no discounting) and 2. German readers are loyal and persistent (once you're in the list, you tend to stay there, Brits are much more fickle) and 3. it's a massive market, 3rd biggest in the world behind America and China (Japan is 4th, UK 5th)

    Germany alone, if you crack it, can provide an author with a handsome income. And that is very rare these days.

    Danke, Deutschland.
    We salute your indefatigability, sir!
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Good for you. Also good for those people who get the tax you pay on that redistributed in benefits especially the polish immigrants getting tax credits......
    Brexit has basically given me a 15-20% pay rise.

    *hiccups*
    Indeed, all hard Brexit will mean is WTO tariffs and the exchange rate will fall closer to Pound/ Euro parity. I am well aware of this. But I am glad someone has done well out of Brexit because I have not!
    Long may the Pound fall, long may interest rates rise. Part of my vote was to get exactly that scenario economically. Works for me, though how I laughed when George "threatened" me with it before June 23rd.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Drinks on SeanT at the next PB meet!
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277

    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Aren't you concerned about tariffs on British books
    There are weird scary Brexit rumours circling the publishing world - problems with double tax exemptions. I suspect nothing terrible will happen.

    The more worrying development for authors is the government's intention to make all self employed people file quarterly tax returns, as I understand it? What a bore.

    I seem to recall that the quarterly piece of HMRC nonsense has been quietly shelved. I am willing to be corrected however.
    Or perhaps I am wrong:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/484668/making-tax-digital.pdf

    Seems there is an ongoing consultation and self-employed and small landlords are included.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,496
    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Goodness, that's crazy money!

    Spend a lot please, Brexit needs you!
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    Try selling that on the doorsteps of Copeland.
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    The proposed change is not until 2018 and those who are so committed to final salary pensions will be voting Labour anyway. If the Tories win Copeland it will largely be through squeezing the UKIP vote with a few Labour votes lost to the LDs
    Sellafield are the biggest employer there, with quite a lot of well paid jobs.

    Copeland will be won by a local candidate fighting on local issues.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Hard Brexit is ideal for me, especially with the collapse in sterling.

    DID I MENTION THAT I AM RIGHT NOW EARNING €20,000 A WEEK FROM GERMANY?
    Good for you. Also good for those people who get the tax you pay on that redistributed in benefits especially the polish immigrants getting tax credits......
    Brexit has basically given me a 15-20% pay rise.

    *hiccups*
    Hold on. Not wishing to be a party pooper. But. These are based on books in this week's charts? If it is anything like my very minor sales of my computer book you won't get paid for months. Presumably the sterling rate is the one on the day of payment?
    Yep, I think it is. But I had a pretty sizeable bestseller last year in several territories (esp Holland, Brazil and Germany). So I'm getting royalties from the Ice Twins across Europe, Asia, etc: and they are all boosted by the fall in the £ against the dollar and euro.

    And the advances in my new contracts on the Fire Child and my third Tremayne thriller are also (usually) priced in dollar and euro so I gain there, as well: immediately.

    I'm a living example of a British exporter gaining from Brexit. Thankyou, Nigel and Boris.
    Why did we ever doubt Brexit would be a triumph? :smiley:
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    Try selling that on the doorsteps of Copeland.
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    The proposed change is not until 2018 and those who are so committed to final salary pensions will be voting Labour anyway. If the Tories win Copeland it will largely be through squeezing the UKIP vote with a few Labour votes lost to the LDs
    Sellafield are the biggest employer there, with quite a lot of well paid jobs.

    Copeland will be won by a local candidate fighting on local issues.
    Paul Mason?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,450
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    *Buffs Nails*

    I posted exactly that after the Tory conference and a few PBers pooh-poohed it.

    See my sources were right, Brexit has the potential to lead to a donors' strike it.
    What's he gonna do, stop funding the Tories so Corbyn's Labour has a better chance of winning?

    Exactly. He has nowhere to go.
    No, it forces pressure on Mrs May, Labour via the Unions are well funded, does Mrs May really want to go down in history as the Tory leader that didn't win a majority against Corbyn.

    Why give you money to someone who ruins your business.
    The Conservative Party has millions of supporters.

    It can survive one man throwing a strop.
    Perversely, such behaviour is likely to have had far more of an effect with someone like Cameron.

    May, I imagine, will give it very short shrift.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    Your boyo that did the shooting at the airport in Ft Lauderdale had taken an interest in Jihadi stuff in the past. How deep is unclear.

    Wow. Link?
    Reportedly hung around Jihadi web forums in the past but its hard from the sketch to say how much this is a present thing.
    Just done some digging. Sounds like you're right. Lived within walking distance of the only mosque in Alaska. Known to FBI for ISIS ravings.
    If the child porn rumour about this one is correct it could be a rather oblique piece in the evidence chain. You'd be surprised how much of certain types of pornography is found on many an IS sympathiser's seized computer. There are some who consider it a small part of the profiling template.
    As an aside there is a LOT of child porn out there. When I search for "Teen fucked" or something along those lines you come across thumbnails that looks like children they try to get away with it by labelling it as "young teen" or "twink" or whatever but they are so young looking. It's shocking how much and how easy it is to access. Or am I being naive? Probably, but I don't see what they can do about it?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    nunu said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    Your boyo that did the shooting at the airport in Ft Lauderdale had taken an interest in Jihadi stuff in the past. How deep is unclear.

    Wow. Link?
    Reportedly hung around Jihadi web forums in the past but its hard from the sketch to say how much this is a present thing.
    Just done some digging. Sounds like you're right. Lived within walking distance of the only mosque in Alaska. Known to FBI for ISIS ravings.
    If the child porn rumour about this one is correct it could be a rather oblique piece in the evidence chain. You'd be surprised how much of certain types of pornography is found on many an IS sympathiser's seized computer. There are some who consider it a small part of the profiling template.
    As an aside there is a LOT of child porn out there. When I search for "Teen fucked" or something along those lines you come across thumbnails that looks like children they try to get away with it by labelling it as "young teen" or "twink" or whatever but they are so young looking. It's shocking how much and how easy it is to access. Or am I being naive? Probably, but I don't see what they can do about it?
    I, on the other hand, use incognito mode to learn more about the AV voting system. Don't want anyone else finding out about that dirty habit! :D
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    Try selling that on the doorsteps of Copeland.
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    The proposed change is not until 2018 and those who are so committed to final salary pensions will be voting Labour anyway. If the Tories win Copeland it will largely be through squeezing the UKIP vote with a few Labour votes lost to the LDs
    Sellafield are the biggest employer there, with quite a lot of well paid jobs.

    Copeland will be won by a local candidate fighting on local issues.
    Labour runs and riders in Nukeland:

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/corbyn-candidate-rachel-holliday-joins-race-to-be-labours-copeland-byelection-mp-2017-1
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,450
    I see buried at the back of the Evening Standard tonight, Deloitte are announcing the consolidation of their European partnerships into one based in London.

    That's the precise opposite direction you'd 'expect' from Brexit.

    "The walls between Deloitte’s European businesses are coming down. Sproul is combining partnerships in Belgium, Holland, the Nordics and Switzerland into one London-based unit. The idea is for the firms and their clients to benefit from the deeper expertise of the UK mother ship.

    It’s interesting timing to be persuading EU firms to be led in the UK, I say. “Yes,” he admits. “I wouldn’t pretend there wasn’t a pause on June 24 from our European colleagues. But in the end we thought hard about Brexit and decided the benefits would still be there.”

    Sproul was a Remainer but is hopeful Britain will thrive alone. “The quality of Britain and London, the diversity of talent, the open economy, the legal system, that’s not going to go away,”

    http://www.standard.co.uk/business/david-sproul-lifelong-numbers-man-who-s-happy-to-be-held-to-account-for-deloitte-s-dramas-a3434561.html
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Tim_B said:

    The state of emergency is now in effect -they said the rain would start at 2pm and it did. Temperature are dropping and will reach freezing in an hour or so, so it will switch to sleet and freezing rain before turning to snow overnight. We're expecting about 4 inches.

    Local TV stations have suspended regular programming and have wall to wall weather coverage. They have correspondents all over the ATL metro, for example WSB "Severe Storm Team 2" and Action News folks are breathlessly reporting every flurry and sleet report, and traffic jams. HD Radar, interactive traffic flow maps - you name it they have it.

    The Weather Channel, a nationwide channel has reporters all over Atlanta, and shows all the various models showing projected snowfall etc. (The Weather Channel studios are in Atlanta).

    One has to wonder how viewers in Fargo, Bismarck or International Falls view this saturation coverage of a 4 inch snow storm, (which will shut the place down for 2 to 3 days) compared to what they regularly get. I suspect either a wry smile or just outright contempt for southern wusses.

    It is almost mesmeric to watch though - an enjoyable slow motion train wreck

    Well, we in New York also make disparaging remarks about Southerners not coping with trivial amounts of snow, but we would fall over with the sort of snow North Dakota regularly gets. It's simply not worth investing in the necessary infrastructure to cope with snow falls you might only get once a twice a winter, and sometimes not at all.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    I see buried at the back of the Evening Standard tonight, Deloitte are announcing the consolidation of their European partnerships into one based in London.

    That's the precise opposite direction you'd 'expect' from Brexit.

    "The walls between Deloitte’s European businesses are coming down. Sproul is combining partnerships in Belgium, Holland, the Nordics and Switzerland into one London-based unit. The idea is for the firms and their clients to benefit from the deeper expertise of the UK mother ship.

    It’s interesting timing to be persuading EU firms to be led in the UK, I say. “Yes,” he admits. “I wouldn’t pretend there wasn’t a pause on June 24 from our European colleagues. But in the end we thought hard about Brexit and decided the benefits would still be there.”

    Sproul was a Remainer but is hopeful Britain will thrive alone. “The quality of Britain and London, the diversity of talent, the open economy, the legal system, that’s not going to go away,”

    http://www.standard.co.uk/business/david-sproul-lifelong-numbers-man-who-s-happy-to-be-held-to-account-for-deloitte-s-dramas-a3434561.html

    #DespiteBrexit :p
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    But there are hundreds of options in the middle: work, but no benefits; visa automatic with job offer; stay dependent on buying private health insurance, etc. etc. etc.

    I saw a suggestion to have a long-term residency requirement for access to in work benefits of say 5 years. This would be no problem for people who had grown up here, but would mean a high bar for new EU migrants. On the face of it it would be non-discriminatory since the same rule would apply for everyone.
    Seems like a pretty sensible idea. I wonder why something like this wasn't pursued. All Cameron got was a temporary freeze on in-work benefits for new arrivals for seven years.
    A five year residency qualification for tax credits would be perfectly possible within the EU, as long as it applied to UK citizens too.

    There's an existing precedent. You need three years' residency in the UK to qualify for home university tuition fee rates, whether you're a British citizen or not.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,450
    edited January 2017
    RobD said:

    I see buried at the back of the Evening Standard tonight, Deloitte are announcing the consolidation of their European partnerships into one based in London.

    That's the precise opposite direction you'd 'expect' from Brexit.

    "The walls between Deloitte’s European businesses are coming down. Sproul is combining partnerships in Belgium, Holland, the Nordics and Switzerland into one London-based unit. The idea is for the firms and their clients to benefit from the deeper expertise of the UK mother ship.

    It’s interesting timing to be persuading EU firms to be led in the UK, I say. “Yes,” he admits. “I wouldn’t pretend there wasn’t a pause on June 24 from our European colleagues. But in the end we thought hard about Brexit and decided the benefits would still be there.”

    Sproul was a Remainer but is hopeful Britain will thrive alone. “The quality of Britain and London, the diversity of talent, the open economy, the legal system, that’s not going to go away,”

    http://www.standard.co.uk/business/david-sproul-lifelong-numbers-man-who-s-happy-to-be-held-to-account-for-deloitte-s-dramas-a3434561.html

    #DespiteBrexit :p
    The biggest fear the most ardent Remainers have - those who believe, passionately, in the EU political project, and its values of internationalism - is that EU membership turns out to be just not that important to the long-term health of the UK economy.

    Hence the shrillest forewarnings of doom then, now, and for the future.

    In a game of high-stakes political poker, where the economy is their strongest card, they hope we'll fold.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    Ok Mr FF43 and Mr Taxman, you seem to know a lot a lot about what so called hard brexiteers think. Brexit had big majorities in Hull, Huddersfield, Halifax, Bradford, Bolton, Barnsley, Burnley, Blackburn, Doncaster, Rotherham, Sunderland, Middlesborough Hartlepool and countless other towns. Since you apparently know so much about what these people think how about you tell us how many residents of these towns you've spoken to since the vote?

    Fair enough. I am working on inference. Properly run opinion polls show that almost all Leavers think Brexit generally will benefit the British economy (in contrast to Remain supporters who almost all think the opposite) Random example of such a poll here. I am then making the assumption that most supporters of Hard versus Soft Brexit are Leave supporters rather than Remainers and that's because they don't think any form of Leave has bad consequences. I would like to see a poll that asked that exact question, however.
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    But there are hundreds of options in the middle: work, but no benefits; visa automatic with job offer; stay dependent on buying private health insurance, etc. etc. etc.

    I saw a suggestion to have a long-term residency requirement for access to in work benefits of say 5 years. This would be no problem for people who had grown up here, but would mean a high bar for new EU migrants. On the face of it it would be non-discriminatory since the same rule would apply for everyone.
    Seems like a pretty sensible idea. I wonder why something like this wasn't pursued. All Cameron got was a temporary freeze on in-work benefits for new arrivals for seven years.
    A five year residency qualification for tax credits would be perfectly possible within the EU, as long as it applied to UK citizens too.

    Which would only really cause a problem for returning expats. A very small number of people. Sounds to me as though that would have been an excellent way to disincentives immigration.
    And you can ameliorate the effect for returning ex-pats by making concessions for ex-pats that make voluntary National Insurance Contributions from overseas, which is something many of us do anyway to make sure we qualify for a full UK state pension when we retire. The only thing you can't do from the EU's point of view is give British citizens special treatment over other EU citizens purely on the basis of nationality. And the existing arrangements don't do that: anyone who's made three years or more of NICs from work in the UK is entitled to continue to make voluntary NICs from overseas, should they leave the UK.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    RobD said:

    nunu said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    Your boyo that did the shooting at the airport in Ft Lauderdale had taken an interest in Jihadi stuff in the past. How deep is unclear.

    Wow. Link?
    Reportedly hung around Jihadi web forums in the past but its hard from the sketch to say how much this is a present thing.
    Just done some digging. Sounds like you're right. Lived within walking distance of the only mosque in Alaska. Known to FBI for ISIS ravings.
    If the child porn rumour about this one is correct it could be a rather oblique piece in the evidence chain. You'd be surprised how much of certain types of pornography is found on many an IS sympathiser's seized computer. There are some who consider it a small part of the profiling template.
    As an aside there is a LOT of child porn out there. When I search for "Teen fucked" or something along those lines you come across thumbnails that looks like children they try to get away with it by labelling it as "young teen" or "twink" or whatever but they are so young looking. It's shocking how much and how easy it is to access. Or am I being naive? Probably, but I don't see what they can do about it?
    I, on the other hand, use incognito mode to learn more about the AV voting system. Don't want anyone else finding out about that dirty habit! :D
    such a prude.
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    SeanT said:

    The worst form I've ever had to fill in was the claim for exemption from double US tax. Oh my word. American bureaucracy can be quite impressive.

    My theory is this. What is now the US was largely settled by colonists from the British Isles and Germany. It could have had a bureaucracy with British flexibility and German efficiency. Sadly it got the opposite.
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited January 2017
    RobD said:

    nunu said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    Your boyo that did the shooting at the airport in Ft Lauderdale had taken an interest in Jihadi stuff in the past. How deep is unclear.

    Wow. Link?
    Reportedly hung around Jihadi web forums in the past but its hard from the sketch to say how much this is a present thing.
    Just done some digging. Sounds like you're right. Lived within walking distance of the only mosque in Alaska. Known to FBI for ISIS ravings.
    If the child porn rumour about this one is correct it could be a rather oblique piece in the evidence chain. You'd be surprised how much of certain types of pornography is found on many an IS sympathiser's seized computer. There are some who consider it a small part of the profiling template.
    As an aside there is a LOT of child porn out there. When I search for "Teen fucked" or something along those lines you come across thumbnails that looks like children they try to get away with it by labelling it as "young teen" or "twink" or whatever but they are so young looking. It's shocking how much and how easy it is to access. Or am I being naive? Probably, but I don't see what they can do about it?
    I, on the other hand, use incognito mode to learn more about the AV voting system. Don't want anyone else finding out about that dirty habit! :D
    Be careful, you might catch an STV.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    Try selling that on the doorsteps of Copeland.
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    The proposed change is not until 2018 and those who are so committed to final salary pensions will be voting Labour anyway. If the Tories win Copeland it will largely be through squeezing the UKIP vote with a few Labour votes lost to the LDs
    Sellafield are the biggest employer there, with quite a lot of well paid jobs.

    Copeland will be won by a local candidate fighting on local issues.
    Labour runs and riders in Nukeland:

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/corbyn-candidate-rachel-holliday-joins-race-to-be-labours-copeland-byelection-mp-2017-1
    Definitely a local candidate for local issues. I think Labour is going to win and is value still. This is not a place where May's party will thrive.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    RobD said:

    nunu said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    Your boyo that did the shooting at the airport in Ft Lauderdale had taken an interest in Jihadi stuff in the past. How deep is unclear.

    Wow. Link?
    Reportedly hung around Jihadi web forums in the past but its hard from the sketch to say how much this is a present thing.
    Just done some digging. Sounds like you're right. Lived within walking distance of the only mosque in Alaska. Known to FBI for ISIS ravings.
    If the child porn rumour about this one is correct it could be a rather oblique piece in the evidence chain. You'd be surprised how much of certain types of pornography is found on many an IS sympathiser's seized computer. There are some who consider it a small part of the profiling template.
    As an aside there is a LOT of child porn out there. When I search for "Teen fucked" or something along those lines you come across thumbnails that looks like children they try to get away with it by labelling it as "young teen" or "twink" or whatever but they are so young looking. It's shocking how much and how easy it is to access. Or am I being naive? Probably, but I don't see what they can do about it?
    I, on the other hand, use incognito mode to learn more about the AV voting system. Don't want anyone else finding out about that dirty habit! :D
    Be careful, you might catch an STV.
    The winner is the person who comes first.
  • Options
    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    Doubtless aware that both Leave and Trump were highly popular in the respective armed forces for a long time before they won at the ballot box, French presidential candidate Nicolas Dupont-Aignan has published a letter to members of the armed forces.

    He promises "civil and military" conscription, albeit only for three months; a second aircraft carrier; higher pensions for veterans; a doubling of the Defence Ministry's research budget; and a guarantee of soldiers' pay. The last point sounds weak to me - why not promise to double their pay and give them each a Rolex watch? I mean does this guy want the military vote or not?
  • Options
    What on earth would be the point of three-month military conscription?
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,496

    RobD said:

    nunu said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    Your boyo that did the shooting at the airport in Ft Lauderdale had taken an interest in Jihadi stuff in the past. How deep is unclear.

    Wow. Link?
    Reportedly hung around Jihadi web forums in the past but its hard from the sketch to say how much this is a present thing.
    Just done some digging. Sounds like you're right. Lived within walking distance of the only mosque in Alaska. Known to FBI for ISIS ravings.
    If the child porn rumour about this one is correct it could be a rather oblique piece in the evidence chain. You'd be surprised how much of certain types of pornography is found on many an IS sympathiser's seized computer. There are some who consider it a small part of the profiling template.
    As an aside there is a LOT of child porn out there. When I search for "Teen fucked" or something along those lines you come across thumbnails that looks like children they try to get away with it by labelling it as "young teen" or "twink" or whatever but they are so young looking. It's shocking how much and how easy it is to access. Or am I being naive? Probably, but I don't see what they can do about it?
    I, on the other hand, use incognito mode to learn more about the AV voting system. Don't want anyone else finding out about that dirty habit! :D
    Be careful, you might catch an STV.
    Hahah.

    Stop it before I get an election.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    rpjs said:

    SeanT said:

    The worst form I've ever had to fill in was the claim for exemption from double US tax. Oh my word. American bureaucracy can be quite impressive.

    My theory is this. What is now the US was largely settled by colonists from the British Isles and Germany. It could have had a bureaucracy with British flexibility and German efficiency. Sadly it got the opposite.
    Isn't bureacracy in America used for protectionism?
  • Options
    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194

    What on earth would be the point of three-month military conscription?

    To give young people a stronger feeling of belonging to the national community, he says.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    Try selling that on the doorsteps of Copeland.
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Reading the Runes it seems the Cameroons think if May is a failure, and obviously they are desperately trying to create a narrative that she is destined to be, it will be back to one of their own...

    I bet Blairites thought the same after EdM

    I think May will do alright.
    Another factor in Copeland?

    Tory attacks on pensions of the 10 000 Sellafield workers in the run up to the byelection?

    Doesn't sound a vote winner to me.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/28/sellafield-tory-conservative-byelection-cumbria-unions-copeland
    Ending final salary pensions and replacing them with contributory ones is simply what every sane organisation in the private sector is doing
    The proposed change is not until 2018 and those who
    Sellafield are the biggest employer there, with quite a lot of well paid jobs.

    Copeland will be won by a local candidate fighting on local issues.
    Labour runs and riders in Nukeland:

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/corbyn-candidate-rachel-holliday-joins-race-to-be-labours-copeland-byelection-mp-2017-1
    Definitely a local candidate for local issues. I think Labour is going to win and is value still. This is not a place where May's party will thrive.
    The combined Tory and UKIP vote in Copeland was 52% at the last election, Labour got 42%. Even if the Labour vote remained unchanged ( and it is down in the national polls) if the Tories squeeze the UKIP vote enough they could win
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    RobD said:

    I see buried at the back of the Evening Standard tonight, Deloitte are announcing the consolidation of their European partnerships into one based in London.

    That's the precise opposite direction you'd 'expect' from Brexit.

    "The walls between Deloitte’s European businesses are coming down. Sproul is combining partnerships in Belgium, Holland, the Nordics and Switzerland into one London-based unit. The idea is for the firms and their clients to benefit from the deeper expertise of the UK mother ship.

    It’s interesting timing to be persuading EU firms to be led in the UK, I say. “Yes,” he admits. “I wouldn’t pretend there wasn’t a pause on June 24 from our European colleagues. But in the end we thought hard about Brexit and decided the benefits would still be there.”

    Sproul was a Remainer but is hopeful Britain will thrive alone. “The quality of Britain and London, the diversity of talent, the open economy, the legal system, that’s not going to go away,”

    http://www.standard.co.uk/business/david-sproul-lifelong-numbers-man-who-s-happy-to-be-held-to-account-for-deloitte-s-dramas-a3434561.html

    #DespiteBrexit :p
    The biggest fear the most ardent Remainers have - those who believe, passionately, in the EU political project, and its values of internationalism - is that EU membership turns out to be just not that important to the long-term health of the UK economy.

    Hence the shrillest forewarnings of doom then, now, and for the future.

    In a game of high-stakes political poker, where the economy is their strongest card, they hope we'll fold.
    I think they will find themselves bitterly disappointed.

    oh well, never mind.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    nunu said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    Your boyo that did the shooting at the airport in Ft Lauderdale had taken an interest in Jihadi stuff in the past. How deep is unclear.

    Wow. Link?
    Reportedly hung around Jihadi web forums in the past but its hard from the sketch to say how much this is a present thing.
    Just done some digging. Sounds like you're right. Lived within walking distance of the only mosque in Alaska. Known to FBI for ISIS ravings.
    If the child porn rumour about this one is correct it could be a rather oblique piece in the evidence chain. You'd be surprised how much of certain types of pornography is found on many an IS sympathiser's seized computer. There are some who consider it a small part of the profiling template.
    As an aside there is a LOT of child porn out there. When I search for "Teen fucked" or something along those lines you come across thumbnails that looks like children they try to get away with it by labelling it as "young teen" or "twink" or whatever but they are so young looking. It's shocking how much and how easy it is to access. Or am I being naive? Probably, but I don't see what they can do about it?
    When you search for what? lol
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    RobD said:

    nunu said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    SeanT said:

    Y0kel said:

    Your boyo that did the shooting at the airport in Ft Lauderdale had taken an interest in Jihadi stuff in the past. How deep is unclear.

    Wow. Link?
    Reportedly hung around Jihadi web forums in the past but its hard from the sketch to say how much this is a present thing.
    Just done some digging. Sounds like you're right. Lived within walking distance of the only mosque in Alaska. Known to FBI for ISIS ravings.
    If the child porn rumour about this one is correct it could be a rather oblique piece in the evidence chain. You'd be surprised how much of certain types of pornography is found on many an IS sympathiser's seized computer. There are some who consider it a small part of the profiling template.
    As an aside there is a LOT of child porn out there. When I search for "Teen fucked" or something along those lines you come across thumbnails that looks like children they try to get away with it by labelling it as "young teen" or "twink" or whatever but they are so young looking. It's shocking how much and how easy it is to access. Or am I being naive? Probably, but I don't see what they can do about it?
    I, on the other hand, use incognito mode to learn more about the AV voting system. Don't want anyone else finding out about that dirty habit! :D
    Be careful, you might catch an STV.
    Very good!
  • Options
    PaganPagan Posts: 259

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Tory voters back hard Brexit over soft Brexit by a 13% margin, May is more likely to lose her majority if she fails to control free movement and sees mass defections to UKIP than if she fails to appease 1 donor by not keeping full access to the single market
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/810116884850941953?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Thing is, they also think Hard Brexit is free of consequences and they are not going to change their minds on that point until confronted with undeniable evidence, ie when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

    So far it looks like Theresa May will go with the iconoclasts. It's all very Cultural Revolution.

    The people who want hard Brexit are totally unconcerned about its effects on peoples lives who do not have the control or certainty in life they may have.. Indeed they seem to revel in it, maybe they know they are immune from the consequences personally? I don't know. What I do know is if the masses suddenly experience a drop in living standards it will be Labour that will be the main beneficiary and the smug professionals, self employed and the financially independent may well find they are in the cross hairs of a resurgent Labour party on a turbo charged mission to create social justice.
    if there is no brexit there will be blood in the streets, you wish no brexit so I assume thats what you would prefer
  • Options
    PaganPagan Posts: 259
    To clarify my previous post

    Power comes either through a vote or a gun

    If remainers had won and were now taking us into schengen or the euro I wouldnt like it but would accept it as the democratic will

    However you lost, derail brexit by legal shennanigans or otherwise and you are telling me the vote has no power therefore my only choice is to pick up a gun
This discussion has been closed.