My issue with postal votng is we just don't know and it's hard to see how we could know if there is intimidation or something else... Potentially within a household.
You don't really know that with in-person voting any more either. The little booths used to work as a security measure, but they've been defeated by camera phones.
Can't we just tell people they aren't allowed to bring their phones into voting booths?
You can tell them if you like but that won't stop them. And cameras get smaller, more portable and more omnipresent every cycle.
Yes but the selfies get larger, more seen and more omnipresent on social media too.
I suspect that a requirement to produce one's polling card would combat lots of fraud. The system could be beefed up further with a requirement to confirm D.O.B along with password or PIN or scanned signature that could be set-up as part of voter registration. Simply turning up and announcing that your are Mr Jones of Sycamore Avenue has probably had its day.
Isn't the discussion potentially missing the point somewhat about providing ID at the polling station. If (and its a big IF) there was some reason to think that personification was corrupting the electoral process, then to combat it then there isn't necessarily a need to require a high level of ID (ie. linking (recognisable) photo, name, address etc).
Simply turning up with a third party document with your name on it is likely to be sufficient for the purposes of avoiding electoral corruption. The point is that the penalties for electoral fraud are high. Therefore to attempt to implement such fraud on any material widespread basis there has to be a realistic chance of success, and lack of likelihood of detection.
The moment electoral fraud requires the creation of "fake" documentation, even basic documentation just showing a name, especially on a widespread scale, it becomes much easier to detect, and importantly trace back. Don't forget that "personification" requires that the eligible voter doesn't actually attempt to vote.
If the problem is not actually personification, but is actually registration of ineligible/non-existent voters, then the time to tackle this is not in the voting booth.
We could all be implanted with a microchip that could be scanned at the polling station before we are allowed to vote.
However that would be a total waste of time when most dodgy practices are connected with postal voting.
Oh, and put me down as one lefty who enjoyed the header. Can I add a nomination for the PLP to receive the 'couldn't organise a drinking event in a brewery' award for their efforts to get rid of Jezza.
@David L, people have turned up to vote in Tower Hamlets, to discover they've "voted" by post.
Yes but that was a very particular example which led to a prosecution and banning order. Is there any evidence that this is widespread or are we looking at a solution in search of a problem?
SR - I think you're unfair on the PLP. I actually think they did a pretty good job of organising the drinking event. The problem they had was that it turned out they weren't in a brewery, and, even worse, the wider Labour Party seemed to have collectively taken the decision to join AA.
@David L, people have turned up to vote in Tower Hamlets, to discover they've "voted" by post.
Yes but that was a very particular example which led to a prosecution and banning order. Is there any evidence that this is widespread or are we looking at a solution in search of a problem?
If you change a country from a Boutique Hotel where the owners know the guests by name into a Premier Inn where the zero hours contract workers don't even know which part of town they're in, then you have to make changes.
Premier Inns probably make more % on each £ though, so that's all that matters
Click on the timestamp under the name (top left) of the post you want to quote. This takes you to the Vanilla Forums interface to pb where the posts are the other way up (newest at the bottom) and where the quote button still exists. It will also land you within two or three posts of the one you wanted to quote.
My joke about cleavage in the Labour Party referred to the other kind of cleavage, but I'm glad to see a heated discussion on the PM's mammaries is underway nevertheless.
"... people have turned up to vote in Tower Hamlets, to discover they've "voted" by post."
I have seen that when I have worked as a polling clerk in the polling station in the small Sussex village of Ansty. Of course, you don't know that the person has voted only that they have been given a postal vote (it is marked on the register) and therefore are ineligible to be given a ballot form in the polling station. I doubt fraud was involved in the Ansty cases, though, just older people being forgetful.
We also regularly had people turning up in person to hand in their postal vote, which is totally OK and there set procedures for accepting them and a separate ballot box in which to put the envelopes. One has to wonder why they bother though.
My joke about cleavage in the Labour Party referred to the other kind of cleavage, but I'm glad to see a heated discussion on the PM's mammaries is underway nevertheless.
The Labour party can't do cleavage these days. All that's left is a monoboob.
Why can't we just take the polling card as "ID" to vote?
Everyone gets one, and it would limit people just turning up and pretending to be from another address.
Doesn't cover every situation, but it would be a simple start without anyone complaining they don't have driver's licence, passport, etc.
I would be very surprised if a non-trivial number of polling cards failed to be delivered accurately (even ignoring the large number that no doubt get thrown away by accident etc).
We could all be implanted with a microchip that could be scanned at the polling station before we are allowed to vote.
However that would be a total waste of time when most dodgy practices are connected with postal voting.
Oh, and put me down as one lefty who enjoyed the header. Can I add a nomination for the PLP to receive the 'couldn't organise a drinking event in a brewery' award for their efforts to get rid of Jezza.
Click on the timestamp under the name (top left) of the post you want to quote. This takes you to the Vanilla Forums interface to pb where the posts are the other way up (newest at the bottom) and where the quote button still exists. It will also land you within two or three posts of the one you wanted to quote.
There is the small problem of having to stand on your head while you read to get the posts in the right order. I find that tiring after a while.
"... people have turned up to vote in Tower Hamlets, to discover they've "voted" by post."
I have seen that when I have worked as a polling clerk in the polling station in the small Sussex village of Ansty. Of course, you don't know that the person has voted only that they have been given a postal vote (it is marked on the register) and therefore are ineligible to be given a ballot form in the polling station. I doubt fraud was involved in the Ansty cases, though, just older people being forgetful.
We also regularly had people turning up in person to hand in their postal vote, which is totally OK and there set procedures for accepting them and a separate ballot box in which to put the envelopes. One has to wonder why they bother though.
If you post your ballot you have to do so several days beforehand and so vote before having full information of the electoral campaign.
I've always found that walking to vote is more pleasurable than posting my vote.
Click on the timestamp under the name (top left) of the post you want to quote. This takes you to the Vanilla Forums interface to pb where the posts are the other way up (newest at the bottom) and where the quote button still exists. It will also land you within two or three posts of the one you wanted to quote.
@David L, people have turned up to vote in Tower Hamlets, to discover they've "voted" by post.
Yes but that was a very particular example which led to a prosecution and banning order. Is there any evidence that this is widespread or are we looking at a solution in search of a problem?
If you change a country from a Boutique Hotel where the owners know the guests by name into a Premier Inn where the zero hours contract workers don't even know which part of town they're in, then you have to make changes.
Premier Inns probably make more % on each £ though, so that's all that matters
Without getting too pedantic I bet Premier Inn margins are lower than Boutique Hotels '.
Just that Premier Inns make more money because turnover is higher.
Isn't the discussion potentially missing the point somewhat about providing ID at the polling station. If (and its a big IF) there was some reason to think that personification was corrupting the electoral process, then to combat it then there isn't necessarily a need to require a high level of ID (ie. linking (recognisable) photo, name, address etc).
Simply turning up with a third party document with your name on it is likely to be sufficient for the purposes of avoiding electoral corruption. The point is that the penalties for electoral fraud are high. Therefore to attempt to implement such fraud on any material widespread basis there has to be a realistic chance of success, and lack of likelihood of detection.
The moment electoral fraud requires the creation of "fake" documentation, even basic documentation just showing a name, especially on a widespread scale, it becomes much easier to detect, and importantly trace back. Don't forget that "personification" requires that the eligible voter doesn't actually attempt to vote.
If the problem is not actually personification, but is actually registration of ineligible/non-existent voters, then the time to tackle this is not in the voting booth.
Personation, not personification - sorry to be a pedant.
I had to google to look it up. If you just give google the word "personation" two of the top four auto completes it offers are "personation meaning in hindi" and "personation meaning in urdu". I have no idea why this would be.
Why can't we just take the polling card as "ID" to vote?
Everyone gets one, and it would limit people just turning up and pretending to be from another address.
Doesn't cover every situation, but it would be a simple start without anyone complaining they don't have driver's licence, passport, etc.
I would be very surprised if a non-trivial number of polling cards failed to be delivered accurately (even ignoring the large number that no doubt get thrown away by accident etc).
I am sure that is right. When canvassing etc you find an increasing number of blocks of flats in particular with "security" systems on the door where gaining access is difficult. They normally have a service override in the morning but the morning postie is an historical memory these days and I suspect many posties have problems.
The simple starter with postal votes would be to remove auto-renewal. I had a postal vote in 2015 as I was on holiday, and it took 3 emails to the council for them to register this was a 1 time only deal and I did not want postal votes sent in perpetuity.
@David L, people have turned up to vote in Tower Hamlets, to discover they've "voted" by post.
Yes but that was a very particular example which led to a prosecution and banning order. Is there any evidence that this is widespread or are we looking at a solution in search of a problem?
If you change a country from a Boutique Hotel where the owners know the guests by name into a Premier Inn where the zero hours contract workers don't even know which part of town they're in, then you have to make changes.
Premier Inns probably make more % on each £ though, so that's all that matters
Without getting too pedantic I bet Premier Inn margins are lower than Boutique Hotels '.
Just that Premier Inns make more money because turnover is higher.
You're right, a completely incorrect sign off from me there which undermines the point I was making!
"Premier Inns probably churn more money though , so that's all that matters" would have been better
First time I watched Stewart Lee, on recommendation from an extreme lefty friend, I got almost to the end thinking I was really enjoying it, then realised I hadn't laughed once. I think I like his delivery, but don't find him that funny.
I suspect that people do not turn up to discover that they have voted by post, but do turn up to discover that they are registered to vote by post and are therefore not eligible to vote in person.
Postal voters seem to become confused when they receive a card not dissimilar to a polling card advising them that they are registered to vote by post. This appears to convey the belief that the postal vote is an either/or option, which leads to them turning up at the polling station, only to find that they cannot vote in person.
I am afraid that I am regularly guilty of delivering my postal vote to the polling station. I see it as my civic duty to turn up at the polling booth whenever possible, but the postal vote guarantees my being able to vote in the event of last minute holidays or ill health preventing my attendance on the day.
"If you post your ballot you have to do so several days beforehand and so vote before having full information of the electoral campaign.
I've always found that walking to vote is more pleasurable than posting my vote."
I quite agree, Mr. Richard, and there is I think a feeling of satisfaction of going to the polling station and doing one's civic duty. But if a person is going to do that why bother with asking for the postal vote in first place? That is the bit I don't understand.
Edited Extra bit: Mr Gadfly has now provided an answer to my question.
"If you post your ballot you have to do so several days beforehand and so vote before having full information of the electoral campaign.
I've always found that walking to vote is more pleasurable than posting my vote."
I quite agree, Mr. Richard, and there is I think a feeling of satisfaction of going to the polling station and doing one's civic duty. But if a person is going to do that why bother with asking for the postal vote in first place? That is the bit I don't understand.
Edited Extra bit: Mr Gadfly has now provided an answer to my question.
In 2010 I took a postal vote to the polling station - was home for a change and so didn't bother with the postal vote in advance, but ended up arriving back the day before the election and didn't trust the ballot to arrive overnight.
I suspect there are quite a few of these, from those who work shifts or do lots of travelling and aren't sure in advance whether they'll be able to vote in person or not.
As others have said, having annual renewal of postal votes would help reduce fraud.
"If you post your ballot you have to do so several days beforehand and so vote before having full information of the electoral campaign.
I've always found that walking to vote is more pleasurable than posting my vote."
I quite agree, Mr. Richard, and there is I think a feeling of satisfaction of going to the polling station and doing one's civic duty. But if a person is going to do that why bother with asking for the postal vote in first place? That is the bit I don't understand.
Edited Extra bit: Mr Gadfly has now provided an answer to my question.
Large numbers of people in Northern England have postal votes as a consequence of the 2004 European elections being postal voting only in their area.
Very funny, uncomfortable, lefty humour. Some audience reaction is painful:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMNA0dv4OpQ
Both Stewart Lee and Richard Hereing have a very highly evolved relationship with Scotch comedy audiences, especially at the Stand in Glasgow an Edinburgh.
"If you post your ballot you have to do so several days beforehand and so vote before having full information of the electoral campaign.
I've always found that walking to vote is more pleasurable than posting my vote."
I quite agree, Mr. Richard, and there is I think a feeling of satisfaction of going to the polling station and doing one's civic duty. But if a person is going to do that why bother with asking for the postal vote in first place? That is the bit I don't understand.
Edited Extra bit: Mr Gadfly has now provided an answer to my question.
In 2010 I took a postal vote to the polling station - was home for a change and so didn't bother with the postal vote in advance, but ended up arriving back the day before the election and didn't trust the ballot to arrive overnight.
I suspect there are quite a few of these, from those who work shifts or do lots of travelling and aren't sure in advance whether they'll be able to vote in person or not.
As others have said, having annual renewal of postal votes would help reduce fraud.
We know that most postal votes are done almost by return of post, usually weeks before election day. We should really have longer campaigns to make up.
I would also like to see secure online voting as it would be more helpful for people who genuinely are away from home.
Passports don't have addresses; utility bills don't have photos and are not addressed to every member of a household. The only ID that works is a driving licence - so that's my wife, my mother-in-law, my Mum, my daughter and middle son all denied a vote. Only the mother-in-law's a Tory, so it's a net win for the Blues - which I guess is the point.
A lot of Labour voters won't pay to get photo I.d. They are really learning from the Texan Republicans on this.
First time I watched Stewart Lee, on recommendation from an extreme lefty friend, I got almost to the end thinking I was really enjoying it, then realised I hadn't laughed once. I think I like his delivery, but don't find him that funny.
I find myself often wondering whether I understand the joke he is making... Or whether he is laughing at me.
Having seen him live in a small venue... His control of a room is incredible.
Off-topic (bar the humour and the categories), could I seek feedback on whether people think it'd be worth me pushing on with an idea for a humorous dictionary of political terms as an idea to pitch to publishers?
The sort of things I'd be thinking of would be:
Big Beast
A politician who could cause untold damage to a leader if mismanaged. Someone who must therefore be appeased with senior office, irrespective of his or her ability to do the job. See also heavyweight.
Deputy Leader
1. Bitter loser of the last leadership election who felt obliged to take the Deputy’s job. Publicly, it was for the sake of party unity; privately, it was to spend the next few years undermining the leader and jockeying to be in pole position to succeed him or her. 2. Political lightweight who was willing to accept the reflected glory of the leader and the invites the leader doesn’t want in exchange for giving up any independence of thought or action. See also Vice-President.
Elder Statesman
A has-been who has not (yet) disgraced him- or herself.
Marxism
A Grand Unified Theory of politics, economics, sociology and history. Believed to work perfectly providing that it is never brought into contact with humans.
Off-topic (bar the humour and the categories), could I seek feedback on whether people think it'd be worth me pushing on with an idea for a humorous dictionary of political terms as an idea to pitch to publishers?
The sort of things I'd be thinking of would be:
Big Beast
A politician who could cause untold damage to a leader if mismanaged. Someone who must therefore be appeased with senior office, irrespective of his or her ability to do the job. See also heavyweight.
Deputy Leader
1. Bitter loser of the last leadership election who felt obliged to take the Deputy’s job. Publicly, it was for the sake of party unity; privately, it was to spend the next few years undermining the leader and jockeying to be in pole position to succeed him or her. 2. Political lightweight who was willing to accept the reflected glory of the leader and the invites the leader doesn’t want in exchange for giving up any independence of thought or action. See also Vice-President.
Elder Statesman
A has-been who has not (yet) disgraced him- or herself.
Marxism
A Grand Unified Theory of politics, economics, sociology and history. Believed to work perfectly providing that it is never brought into contact with humans.
and so on.
Hasn't Rob Hutton done something similar a year or two ago on journalese?
Might be a bit niche. On the other hand, rising division means the market might be larger than it would've been a few years ago. Plus, if you annoy one side they'll give you free publicity by being noisily outraged (I toyed with the idea of sending free copies of Sir Edric to people I thought might be offended by it, for the free marketing, but decided against it).
If you do do it, make sure you make a running start. First part of a book often decides if browsers become buyers, and primacy/recency means they'll heavily weight first impressions when writing a review.
I keep thinking of writing a guide to betting on F1, but (leaving aside the last season was hardly testimony to my judgement, one moment aside) don't really have the time right now.
Off-topic (bar the humour and the categories), could I seek feedback on whether people think it'd be worth me pushing on with an idea for a humorous dictionary of political terms as an idea to pitch to publishers?
The sort of things I'd be thinking of would be:
Big Beast
A politician who could cause untold damage to a leader if mismanaged. Someone who must therefore be appeased with senior office, irrespective of his or her ability to do the job. See also heavyweight.
Deputy Leader
1. Bitter loser of the last leadership election who felt obliged to take the Deputy’s job. Publicly, it was for the sake of party unity; privately, it was to spend the next few years undermining the leader and jockeying to be in pole position to succeed him or her. 2. Political lightweight who was willing to accept the reflected glory of the leader and the invites the leader doesn’t want in exchange for giving up any independence of thought or action. See also Vice-President.
Elder Statesman
A has-been who has not (yet) disgraced him- or herself.
Marxism
A Grand Unified Theory of politics, economics, sociology and history. Believed to work perfectly providing that it is never brought into contact with humans.
and so on.
Not that I have any expertise - but I think it's a good idea. Can imagine it making a good stocking filler type present. Probably quite fun to write I'd imagine too!
Just before I go, Mr. Herdson, provided you can get enough terms (easy enough to do, I'd guess) I'd give it a crack. Sounds like it'd be an efficient sort of book to write because you'd only need a couple of entries per page, if you go for a Little Book approach.
Mr H - an alternative approach would be a spoof 'Ladybird Book of Politics' type approach where you could incorporate the definitions but also broaden out the content.
Off-topic (bar the humour and the categories), could I seek feedback on whether people think it'd be worth me pushing on with an idea for a humorous dictionary of political terms as an idea to pitch to publishers?
The sort of things I'd be thinking of would be:
Big Beast
A politician who could cause untold damage to a leader if mismanaged. Someone who must therefore be appeased with senior office, irrespective of his or her ability to do the job. [snip] and so on.
As a humorous dictionary of political terminology, it could be a great success (if there’s nothing out there already) – I remember getting a stocking filler yonks ago, called The Meaning of Liff, written by Douglas Adams and John Lloyd which was great fun and a possible route for you to take with it.
Moses: "** note that as voodoo polls are now apparently accepted on PB and even make thread headers this is also worthy of inclusion........or not??"
Yes indeed, 'tis a sad day - but then again at least OGH describes these polls for what they are .... voodoo. Going back to PB.com's purer than the driven snow days, I recall the time when it was a hanging offence to so much as contemplate the very idea of averaging polls.
Indeed.
*looks around sadly thinking *
I remember when this was just green fields..............
My favourite Private Eye cartoom has a man standing on a hilltop looking out over fields "I remember son, when all this used to be factories..."
Oh yes ......well said that man. Just don't vote Labour.
The importance of manufacturing to the economy declined more rapidly under Labour administrations since 1997 than it did during the Margaret Thatcher era, according to a Financial Times study. The big winners in the same period were bankers, estate agents and public sector workers, whose share of output increased under the Labour governments of Tony Blair, the former prime minister, and Gordon Brown, his successor. The findings about the state of the economy were uncovered during a study of data held by the Office for National Statistics
Most moving sporting moment has to be the Jonathan Brownlee carrying Alistair over the last few 100 metres of that race in Mexico after Alistair was on the verge of collapse
"If you post your ballot you have to do so several days beforehand and so vote before having full information of the electoral campaign.
I've always found that walking to vote is more pleasurable than posting my vote."
I quite agree, Mr. Richard, and there is I think a feeling of satisfaction of going to the polling station and doing one's civic duty. But if a person is going to do that why bother with asking for the postal vote in first place? That is the bit I don't understand.
Edited Extra bit: Mr Gadfly has now provided an answer to my question.
In 2010 I took a postal vote to the polling station - was home for a change and so didn't bother with the postal vote in advance, but ended up arriving back the day before the election and didn't trust the ballot to arrive overnight.
I suspect there are quite a few of these, from those who work shifts or do lots of travelling and aren't sure in advance whether they'll be able to vote in person or not.
As others have said, having annual renewal of postal votes would help reduce fraud.
We know that most postal votes are done almost by return of post, usually weeks before election day. We should really have longer campaigns to make up.
I would also like to see secure online voting as it would be more helpful for people who genuinely are away from home.
What about early voting in person? I have twice made my mind up on the way to the polling station, so even if I had a regular postal vote wouldn't have used it on those occasions.
What might happen to make an investment in Marine Le Pen worthwhile? She's viewed as the outsider, as Trump was and as to some extent Leave was too. But both Trump and Leave got exposure in TV debates. Will Le Pen?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the debate list looks like this:
"Right and centre" primaries: Party: Les Republicains Voting: Round 1, 20 Nov; Round 2, 27 Nov Debates: three, all before the first round: 13 Oct, 3 Nov, 17 Nov
Socialist primaries: Voting: Round 1, 22 Jan; Round 2, 29 Jan Parties: Socialist Party and Radical Party of the Left Debates: ?
Actual presidential election: Voting: Round 1, 23 Apr; Round 2, 7 May Debates: am I right that there is usually only one, which usually gets a large audience, held between the two rounds? But in 2002 there was no debate, because Jacques Chirac refused to debate with Jean-Marie Le Pen.
If, as expected, Marine Le Pen wins the first round with less than a majority and François Fillon comes second, what approach will Fillon take? He may have won not much more than half of Le Pen's level of support in the first round, putting him in a different position from Chirac's in 2002. So will he be able to refuse to debate with her in the second? And if he does, what will Le Pen's strategy be? Can she win without at least scoring some points in a TV debate?
Thomas Sowell's farewell to political commentary is worth a quick read, particularly about the progress made against poverty and the regression in civil society:
What might happen to make an investment in Marine Le Pen worthwhile? She's viewed as the outsider, as Trump was and as to some extent Leave was too. But both Trump and Leave got exposure in TV debates. Will Le Pen?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the debate list looks like this:
"Right and centre" primaries: Party: Les Republicains Voting: Round 1, 20 Nov; Round 2, 27 Nov Debates: three, all before the first round: 13 Oct, 3 Nov, 17 Nov
Socialist primaries: Voting: Round 1, 22 Jan; Round 2, 29 Jan Parties: Socialist Party and Radical Party of the Left Debates: ?
Actual presidential election: Voting: Round 1, 23 Apr; Round 2, 7 May Debates: am I right that there is usually only one, which usually gets a large audience, held between the two rounds? But in 2002 there was no debate, because Jacques Chirac refused to debate with Jean-Marie Le Pen.
If, as expected, Marine Le Pen wins the first round with less than a majority and François Fillon comes second, what approach will Fillon take? He may have won not much more than half of Le Pen's level of support in the first round, putting him in a different position from Chirac's in 2002. So will he be able to refuse to debate with her in the second? And if he does, what will Le Pen's strategy be? Can she win without at least scoring some points in a TV debate?
Welcome. I can't see a way for Marine Le Pen to win unless the mood changes enormously. She already has the advantage of one of the most inept Presidents of modern times demonstrating how hard the conventional parties find it to change anything significant. She would need a real game changer.
If there were suddenly very large numbers of African immigrants landing in France over the summer or, god forbid, more terrorist atrocities caused by immigrants from Syria etc or, just maybe, a real collapse of the Euro on the back of Italian problems she just might get in the game but it is a real long shot and I see little to no value in her at the moment.
If, as expected, Marine Le Pen wins the first round with less than a majority and François Fillon comes second, what approach will Fillon take? He may have won not much more than half of Le Pen's level of support in the first round, putting him in a different position from Chirac's in 2002. So will he be able to refuse to debate with her in the second? And if he does, what will Le Pen's strategy be? Can she win without at least scoring some points in a TV debate?
What makes you think Fillon is expected to come a poor second in the first round? He's leading most of the first-round polling; Is the thought that the Socialists will take a lot of his vote off him once they pick their candidate???
What might happen to make an investment in Marine Le Pen worthwhile?
If she were to go out to around 10/1, then it might make an investment worthwhile. In all polls she loses by a ratio of around 2 to 1 against both Fillon and Macron in the second rounf of voting.
If you want a decent investment then you would be better to invest in Macron at around 6/1. He is behind both Le Pen and Fillon in the presidential polls but a recent poll suggests that 55% of the French think he would make a better President than Fillon. Surely it can only be time before that popularity is reflected in a presidential poll.
I see the Tories now with voter ID, ontop of registration, the boundary review etc...shameless gerrymandering that GOP would be quite jealous of......
Well since the Boundary commission is an independent organisation with a remit to ensure equal numbers of voters in each electoral district (+-5% other than a couple of exceptions, I think we can take your irrational lunatic left-wing rantings observations with a pinch of salt.
I see the Tories now with voter ID, ontop of registration, the boundary review etc...shameless gerrymandering that GOP would be quite jealous of......
Well since the Boundary commission is an independent organisation with a remit to ensure equal numbers of voters in each electoral district (+-5% other than a couple of exceptions, I think we can take your irrational lunatic left-wing rantings observations with a pinch of salt.
But the boundaries are based on what are widely held, if not generally agreed, to be based on flawed registers.
I see the Tories now with voter ID, ontop of registration, the boundary review etc...shameless gerrymandering that GOP would be quite jealous of......
Well since the Boundary commission is an independent organisation with a remit to ensure equal numbers of voters in each electoral district (+-5% other than a couple of exceptions, I think we can take your irrational lunatic left-wing rantings observations with a pinch of salt.
But the boundaries are based on what are widely held, if not generally agreed, to be based on flawed registers.
The registers for the new boundaries had just been updated by individual voter re-registration, where, in news that will surprise no-one, places like Tower Hamlets lost thousands of "voters".
Some muppet posted "Take an English course. Brush up on your grammar skills. Consider what the person has said, and formulate an appropriate response."
And with a cartoon by the lovely Marf. I am blessed!
Just an attempt to lighten the mood, after quite a year and - lately - some rather tetchy threads.
Anyway, I saw Sully: Miracle on the Hudson yesterday. Well worth it. Genuinely exciting and quite moving.
And now I have to find some straw to protect my tree ferns from frost.
An enjoyable thread, especially as it has shown just how po-faced the miserable gits of the Left are. Frankly guys, humour is all you have left.
Thought there might be an award for Fridge Salesman of the Year?
You are slightly more generous about Sully than I was. Enjoyed Gold, with Hair and Make-up deserving of an award for making Matt McConaughey look like a balding slob. Jackie is also well worth a watch. I defy you to watch A Monster Calls without blubbing. Award for the Film That Most Stays With You. Birth of a Nation was provocatively titled - but did little to justify that provocation. It told us little we didn't already know about brutality of slave owners, especially with regard to dentistry.
But the film I have enjoyed the most this BAFTA season, and that by a country mile, was Hidden Figures, about the coloured women working - segregated - in the NASA programme to beat the Russians into space and then the moon. Flawless. Delightful. Uplifting. Says everything wonderful about their contribution without being perpetually right-on or cloying. Beautifully written, acted and put on the screen. *****
FWIW, Hidden Figures is best-priced to win the 2017 Best Picture Oscar, at 66/1 with Bet365 and SkyBet, where it appears about 14th down Oddschecker's very long list of candidates.
To be fair, Peter, there are plenty of "worthy" films being touted and the biggest favourite is the feel good musical La La Land. But if Herself is any wider indicator of the voters, she thinks that Hidden Figures is up there. If it gets a good campaign behind it....
On electoral fraud, I would have thought we could all agree - regardless of our politics - that the sort of practices so forensically dissected in the judgment which led to Lutfur Rahman's election in Tower Hamlets being overturned should be stamped down on hard.
As for postal voting, I think this should be restricted to those who have a genuine need i.e. those who can prove they will be out of the country or away from their normal residence or who cannot get to the polling station.
As for ID I am open to suggestions but we need to allow alternative forms of ID for those who don't have driving licences, for instance. This should not prove that difficult. The same issues arise when opening bank accounts. The integrity of the electoral system must be maintained.
I really don't want it made more difficult to vote. At 65% for GE and even less for locals those that do vote are already materially different from the community as a whole. It also distorts our politicians' priorities resulting in absurd generosity to pensioners for example.
Harvesting of postal votes is simply wrong and anything even close to this needs to be banned. On personation I would want evidence that it genuinely is an issue. Has anyone ever heard of anyone turning up to vote and finding they already have?
That's happened to me.
But it was a simple clerical error by the polling station clerk. My father & mother were living with me, and went to vote whilst I was at work. When I got to the polling station after work, my name had already been crossed out, as had my father's - but my mother's name hadn't. They allowed me to vote on her slot, so to speak.
Comments
Indeed, the problem in Tower Hamlets is a reluctance on the part of the authorities to enforce the law (where have we heard that before?).
Simply turning up with a third party document with your name on it is likely to be sufficient for the purposes of avoiding electoral corruption. The point is that the penalties for electoral fraud are high. Therefore to attempt to implement such fraud on any material widespread basis there has to be a realistic chance of success, and lack of likelihood of detection.
The moment electoral fraud requires the creation of "fake" documentation, even basic documentation just showing a name, especially on a widespread scale, it becomes much easier to detect, and importantly trace back. Don't forget that "personification" requires that the eligible voter doesn't actually attempt to vote.
If the problem is not actually personification, but is actually registration of ineligible/non-existent voters, then the time to tackle this is not in the voting booth.
However that would be a total waste of time when most dodgy practices are connected with postal voting.
Oh, and put me down as one lefty who enjoyed the header. Can I add a nomination for the PLP to receive the 'couldn't organise a drinking event in a brewery' award for their efforts to get rid of Jezza.
SR - I think you're unfair on the PLP. I actually think they did a pretty good job of organising the drinking event. The problem they had was that it turned out they weren't in a brewery, and, even worse, the wider Labour Party seemed to have collectively taken the decision to join AA.
Premier Inns probably make more % on each £ though, so that's all that matters
There was a great deal of similarity of the action of the Met plods in Tower Hamlets and the South Yorkshire plods in Rotherham.
And no action continues to be taken against either force.
I have seen that when I have worked as a polling clerk in the polling station in the small Sussex village of Ansty. Of course, you don't know that the person has voted only that they have been given a postal vote (it is marked on the register) and therefore are ineligible to be given a ballot form in the polling station. I doubt fraud was involved in the Ansty cases, though, just older people being forgetful.
We also regularly had people turning up in person to hand in their postal vote, which is totally OK and there set procedures for accepting them and a separate ballot box in which to put the envelopes. One has to wonder why they bother though.
Why can't we just take the polling card as "ID" to vote?
Everyone gets one, and it would limit people just turning up and pretending to be from another address.
Doesn't cover every situation, but it would be a simple start without anyone complaining they don't have driver's licence, passport, etc.
That would be voter suppression - of people who don't have a polling card.
My solution to turnout is have week long elections.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMNA0dv4OpQ
I've always found that walking to vote is more pleasurable than posting my vote.
Just that Premier Inns make more money because turnover is higher.
I had to google to look it up. If you just give google the word "personation" two of the top four auto completes it offers are "personation meaning in hindi" and "personation meaning in urdu". I have no idea why this would be.
"Premier Inns probably churn more money though , so that's all that matters" would have been better
Postal voters seem to become confused when they receive a card not dissimilar to a polling card advising them that they are registered to vote by post. This appears to convey the belief that the postal vote is an either/or option, which leads to them turning up at the polling station, only to find that they cannot vote in person.
I am afraid that I am regularly guilty of delivering my postal vote to the polling station. I see it as my civic duty to turn up at the polling booth whenever possible, but the postal vote guarantees my being able to vote in the event of last minute holidays or ill health preventing my attendance on the day.
I've always found that walking to vote is more pleasurable than posting my vote."
I quite agree, Mr. Richard, and there is I think a feeling of satisfaction of going to the polling station and doing one's civic duty. But if a person is going to do that why bother with asking for the postal vote in first place? That is the bit I don't understand.
Edited Extra bit: Mr Gadfly has now provided an answer to my question.
I suspect there are quite a few of these, from those who work shifts or do lots of travelling and aren't sure in advance whether they'll be able to vote in person or not.
As others have said, having annual renewal of postal votes would help reduce fraud.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventures-Edric-Hero-Hornska-Book-ebook/dp/B01DOSP9ZK/
I find it quite hard to take elves seriously.
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/guest-post-why-elves-are-total-bastards.html
Take an English course. Brush up on your grammar skills. Consider what the person has said, and formulate an appropriate response.
I would also like to see secure online voting as it would be more helpful for people who genuinely are away from home.
Having seen him live in a small venue... His control of a room is incredible.
Certainly feels like it... Stuart Lee article on it below:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/where-are-all-right-wing-stand-ups
The sort of things I'd be thinking of would be:
Big Beast
A politician who could cause untold damage to a leader if mismanaged. Someone who must therefore be appeased with senior office, irrespective of his or her ability to do the job.
See also heavyweight.
Deputy Leader
1. Bitter loser of the last leadership election who felt obliged to take the Deputy’s job. Publicly, it was for the sake of party unity; privately, it was to spend the next few years undermining the leader and jockeying to be in pole position to succeed him or her.
2. Political lightweight who was willing to accept the reflected glory of the leader and the invites the leader doesn’t want in exchange for giving up any independence of thought or action.
See also Vice-President.
Elder Statesman
A has-been who has not (yet) disgraced him- or herself.
Marxism
A Grand Unified Theory of politics, economics, sociology and history. Believed to work perfectly providing that it is never brought into contact with humans.
and so on.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DY0UACQ/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
Might be a bit niche. On the other hand, rising division means the market might be larger than it would've been a few years ago. Plus, if you annoy one side they'll give you free publicity by being noisily outraged (I toyed with the idea of sending free copies of Sir Edric to people I thought might be offended by it, for the free marketing, but decided against it).
If you do do it, make sure you make a running start. First part of a book often decides if browsers become buyers, and primacy/recency means they'll heavily weight first impressions when writing a review.
I keep thinking of writing a guide to betting on F1, but (leaving aside the last season was hardly testimony to my judgement, one moment aside) don't really have the time right now.
Anyway, I must be off.
Good luck with the project.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Meaning_of_Liff
The importance of manufacturing to the economy declined more rapidly under Labour administrations since 1997 than it did during the Margaret Thatcher era, according to a Financial Times study.
The big winners in the same period were bankers, estate agents and public sector workers, whose share of output increased under the Labour governments of Tony Blair, the former prime minister, and Gordon Brown, his successor. The findings about the state of the economy were uncovered during a study of data held by the Office for National Statistics
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8c257da6-dfab-11de-98ca-00144feab49a.html?ft_site=falcon&desktop=true#axzz4U2YcZZXE I think the outcome of the referendum showed this was not just "a party problem".
FloaterFloater • Posts: 2,910
11:57AM
I seem to have lost ability to reply to posts? any suggestions on how to fix?
Highlight and copy the message then add your comment
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the debate list looks like this:
"Right and centre" primaries:
Party: Les Republicains
Voting: Round 1, 20 Nov; Round 2, 27 Nov
Debates: three, all before the first round: 13 Oct, 3 Nov, 17 Nov
Socialist primaries:
Voting: Round 1, 22 Jan; Round 2, 29 Jan
Parties: Socialist Party and Radical Party of the Left
Debates: ?
Actual presidential election:
Voting: Round 1, 23 Apr; Round 2, 7 May
Debates: am I right that there is usually only one, which usually gets a large audience, held between the two rounds? But in 2002 there was no debate, because Jacques Chirac refused to debate with Jean-Marie Le Pen.
If, as expected, Marine Le Pen wins the first round with less than a majority and François Fillon comes second, what approach will Fillon take? He may have won not much more than half of Le Pen's level of support in the first round, putting him in a different position from Chirac's in 2002. So will he be able to refuse to debate with her in the second? And if he does, what will Le Pen's strategy be? Can she win without at least scoring some points in a TV debate?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/12/27/farewell_132647.html
diplomacy - telling someone to go to hell and making them look forward to the trip
compromise - two grown men agreeing to do what they both know to be wrong
If there were suddenly very large numbers of African immigrants landing in France over the summer or, god forbid, more terrorist atrocities caused by immigrants from Syria etc or, just maybe, a real collapse of the Euro on the back of Italian problems she just might get in the game but it is a real long shot and I see little to no value in her at the moment.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_de_sondages_sur_l'élection_présidentielle_française_de_2017#D.C3.A9cembre
divinationaccurate poll forecasting goes to: no one.If you want a decent investment then you would be better to invest in Macron at around 6/1. He is behind both Le Pen and Fillon in the presidential polls but a recent poll suggests that 55% of the French think he would make a better President than Fillon. Surely it can only be time before that popularity is reflected in a presidential poll.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-election-poll-idUSKBN14C1H7
irrational lunatic left-wing rantingsobservations with a pinch of salt.I don't remember you complaining when Labour were shamelessly gerrymandering that the Democrats would be quiet jealous of.
Happy Christmas.
Merry xmas to you too mate ;-)
NEW THREAD
But it was a simple clerical error by the polling station clerk. My father & mother were living with me, and went to vote whilst I was at work. When I got to the polling station after work, my name had already been crossed out, as had my father's - but my mother's name hadn't. They allowed me to vote on her slot, so to speak.
Good afternoon, everyone.