For the record, it was Ofgem who upgraded UKIP to a "major political party" and said they should be treated alongside the Tories, LAB and LD. Nothing to do with the BBC.
Dr. Prasannan, no. Lib Dems won 8 seats, UKIP won 1. Clear yellow victory.
As committed supporters of PR, that card is not available to the Lib Dems. If things were done as they would wish them to be done, Ukip would be the third party in Parliament right now.
And we'd probably have a Con-Ukip coalition Government.
The LibDems have found an inverse correlation between exposure for Farron and electoral performance.
As I recall Tim Farron was on QT the week before a spectacular byelection win :-)
The mocking of the LDs by the PB Brexiteers does show that they are rather frit, as May dithers and delays about Brexit. They see their prize slipping away...
UKIP have ceased to be a player based on the evidence of what?
Richmond Park - UKIP were never relevant and didn't stand Witney - they were not relevant here either Tooting - again, not UKIP territory Ogmore - their vote share went up here Sheffield Brightside - 20% of the vote, down 2% Oldham West - 23.4%, up 2.8%
So you are basing your conclusion on the basis of Witney and Tooting? On what planet were these EVER fertile for UKIP ?
Wasn't your previous post that it didn't matter Labour lost their deposit in Richmond?
Hopefully OGH won't mind me pointing out that Average vote % at the five Westminster by-elections this parliament where ALL four big parties contested (ie., exc. Batley and Richmond):
Dr. Foxinsox, I'm not sure it's accurate to suggest the frequency or degree of Farron mockery has altered in any way in recent days. It's the same as it ever was.
Dr. Foxinsox, I'm not sure it's accurate to suggest the frequency or degree of Farron mockery has altered in any way in recent days. It's the same as it ever was.
Hopefully OGH won't mind me pointing out that Average vote % at the five Westminster by-elections this parliament where ALL four big parties contested (ie., exc. Batley and Richmond):
"To the Trumpsters the emperor is wearing a suit of the finest quality, only a fool cannot see it."
Yeah, Drumpf is such an idiot, I mean he went and gave tax breaks to keep jobs in America, but here we've got the EU to tells us we can't do that - praise the flying spaghetti monster we have the EU to protect us from such maniacs. Hail Brussels. Hail EU. Fuck Drumpf, fuck Amerikkkkkkkkka.
The LibDems have found an inverse correlation between exposure for Farron and electoral performance.
As I recall Tim Farron was on QT the week before a spectacular byelection win :-)
The mocking of the LDs by the PB Brexiteers does show that they are rather frit, as May dithers and delays about Brexit. They see their prize slipping away...
"The chart above graphically illustrates how poorly UKIP has been doing in Westminster by elections this year. The BBC should take notice."
Why? All parties have ups and downs the Lib Dems know this more than anyone.
The chart from the 2015 General election is more relevant I would say. In this the share of the vote is
Lib Dems 2, 415, 141 or 7.9% of the vote share UKIP. 3,888,876. or 12.7% of the vote share. (In London this is pretty much reversed on vote share plus some)
Interesting that the Lib Dems wish to shut down publicity and political views of it a party that achieved a larger vote share than they did but significantly changed the political landscape in this country like no other has done for many years.
In saying that though the BBC work to their own agenda and given the importance and significance of the by Richmond election I agree there should have been a Lib Dem representative on that panel without hesitation. Why there was not is open to question. Lib Dems better ensure that is not Olney who during a radio interview yesterday got utterly shredded and drowned before being finally dragged off the radio by an aid. Can't do that on QT.
She has twice coped well opposite Andrew Neil. Yesterday she was silenced by an interviewer whose very aggressive questions didn't make any sense to her. Andrew Neil's questioning is forensic but they make sense. She was trying to handle Hartley-Brewer's questions on an unspun reasonable basis but that wasn't the game. She shouldn't have been put up for that interview. She'll be fine on QT.
Plant food. People that wanted an effective campaigner in the media against Heathrow expansion will compare her to Zac and wonder what on earth voters in Richmond were doing.
Dr. Foxinsox, I'm not sure it's accurate to suggest the frequency or degree of Farron mockery has altered in any way in recent days. It's the same as it ever was.
Dr. Foxinsox, I'm not sure it's accurate to suggest the frequency or degree of Farron mockery has altered in any way in recent days. It's the same as it ever was.
Possibly, but now it has an edge of fear.
Yes, because every constituency is like Richmond...
Farron is a political lightweight and the Lib Dems will continue to be a largely irrelevant party until they ditch him.
The LibDems have found an inverse correlation between exposure for Farron and electoral performance.
As I recall Tim Farron was on QT the week before a spectacular byelection win :-)
The mocking of the LDs by the PB Brexiteers does show that they are rather frit, as May dithers and delays about Brexit. They see their prize slipping away...
The LibDems have found an inverse correlation between exposure for Farron and electoral performance.
As I recall Tim Farron was on QT the week before a spectacular byelection win :-)
The mocking of the LDs by the PB Brexiteers does show that they are rather frit, as May dithers and delays about Brexit. They see their prize slipping away...
Surely the test should be what is in the public interest. As a member of the public and not a member of any party, I want to hear sufficient detail to judge the merits of all parties that are serious contenders for power. For all their ups and downs, right now I would say that both UKIP and the Lib Dems count as serious contenders. I am not particularly bothered by the exact scheduling, but I want to hear about both of them.
"The chart above graphically illustrates how poorly UKIP has been doing in Westminster by elections this year. The BBC should take notice."
Why? All parties have ups and downs the Lib Dems know this more than anyone.
The chart from the 2015 General election is more relevant I would say. In this the share of the vote is
Lib Dems 2, 415, 141 or 7.9% of the vote share UKIP. 3,888,876. or 12.7% of the vote share. (In London this is pretty much reversed on vote share plus some)
Interesting that the Lib Dems wish to shut down publicity and political views of it a party that achieved a larger vote share than they did but significantly changed the political landscape in this country like no other has done for many years.
In saying that though the BBC work to their own agenda and given the importance and significance of the by Richmond election I agree there should have been a Lib Dem representative on that panel without hesitation. Why there was not is open to question. Lib Dems better ensure that is not Olney who during a radio interview yesterday got utterly shredded and drowned before being finally dragged off the radio by an aid. Can't do that on QT.
She has twice coped well opposite Andrew Neil. Yesterday she was silenced by an interviewer whose very aggressive questions didn't make any sense to her. Andrew Neil's questioning is forensic but they make sense. She was trying to handle Hartley-Brewer's questions on an unspun reasonable basis but that wasn't the game. She shouldn't have been put up for that interview. She'll be fine on QT.
Plant food. People that wanted an effective campaigner in the media against Heathrow expansion will compare her to Zac and wonder what on earth voters in Richmond were doing.
Come the next election, Olney will have failed to stop Heathrow expansion, failed to stop Article 50, failed to have stopped Brexit, failed to have got a second Referendum.
But she will have appeared on a million leaflets, pointing at potholes....
The LibDems have found an inverse correlation between exposure for Farron and electoral performance.
As I recall Tim Farron was on QT the week before a spectacular byelection win :-)
The mocking of the LDs by the PB Brexiteers does show that they are rather frit, as May dithers and delays about Brexit. They see their prize slipping away...
What are the chances that UKIP leapfrog Labour into 2nd in Sleaford? Will they continue to be irrelevant when that happens?
1/4 with PP.
I would put it a lot lower. Victoria Ayling is an appallling candidate for UKIP.
Ayling gaining prominence would be almost as bad news for Brexit as Olney's win in Richmond.
For those who missed my clip. This is VA campaigning for UKIP last May in the UKIP target seat of Grimsby. It was on Sunday Politics East Midlands. I piled on Labour on that seat and did very nicely. She offends everyone she meets:
Austria Big gaps between back and lay prices for Hofer and van der Bellen, and not a tiny market either, albeit less than half the size of the Italian one:
Hofer 1.32 - 1.43 (in from back price 1.45 five hours ago) van der Bellen 3.15 - 3.7
A little bird tells me the bods at the New York Times Berlin desk think Hofer is nailed on.
Italy Yes 3.45 - 3.6 No 1.38 - 1.4 (about the same as back price 1.37 five hours ago)
Austria Big gaps between back and lay prices for Hofer and van der Bellen, and not a tiny market either, albeit less than half the size of the Italian one:
Hofer 1.3 - 1.43 (in from back price 1.45 five hours ago) van der Bellen 3.15 - 7
A little bird tells me the bods at the New York Times Berlin desk think Hofer is nailed on.
Italy Yes 3.45 - 3.6 No 1.38 - 4 (about the same as back price of 1.37 five hours ago)
I was at dinner with an Austrian friend last night, she thinks it a toss up as it was last time
What are the chances that UKIP leapfrog Labour into 2nd in Sleaford? Will they continue to be irrelevant when that happens?
1/4 with PP.
I would put it a lot lower. Victoria Ayling is an appallling candidate for UKIP.
Ayling gaining prominence would be almost as bad news for Brexit as Olney's win in Richmond.
For those who missed my clip. This is VA campaigning for UKIP last May in the UKIP target seat of Grimsby. It was on Sunday Politics East Midlands. I piled on Labour on that seat and did very nicely. She offends everyone she meets:
Austria: most polling stations will close at 5pm Austrian time, 4pm GMT, tomorrow. Near-final results are expected by 9pm GMT. If it's as close as it was last time, the result won't be known until Monday or Tuesday.
Hopefully OGH won't mind me pointing out that Average vote % at the five Westminster by-elections this parliament where ALL four big parties contested (ie., exc. Batley and Richmond):
Lab 49.6% Con 21.7% UKIP 12.9% LibDem 9.1%
No Tory against Zac in Richmond. Tory activists pounded the street for Zac. Tory MPs canvassed for Zac. Tory data made available for Zac.
Zac loses.
"Nope. Nothing to do with us!" It's so true - victory has hundreds of fathers; defeat is an orphan.
It is absolutely right that UKIP should be treated as a minor party. But that applies equally to the Lib Dems who have been pandered to for far more years than UKIP and who also deserve to be treated as also rans.
I look forward to the extinction of both parties as neither of them now has anything useful to contribute to politics beyond whining from the margins.
Hopefully OGH won't mind me pointing out that Average vote % at the five Westminster by-elections this parliament where ALL four big parties contested (ie., exc. Batley and Richmond):
Lab 49.6% Con 21.7% UKIP 12.9% LibDem 9.1%
No Tory against Zac in Richmond. Tory activists pounded the street for Zac. Tory MPs canvassed for Zac. Tory data made available for Zac.
Zac loses.
"Nope. Nothing to do with us!" It's so true - victory has hundreds of fathers; defeat is an orphan.
Following Sleaford where are the next parliamentary by elections likely to be ?
Liverpool Walton and Leigh will almost certainly follow the Merseyside and Greater Manchester mayoral elections . Manchester Gorton is likely as Kaufman has not been well enough to appear in Parliament since May . Letwin in West Dorset has already announced he will not stand again and the animosity between him and May could lead him to decide to go earlier . Ben Howlett in Bath may still be in trouble with the police and the local press this week have been having a go at him over his expenses claims .
Austria: most polling stations will close at 5pm Austrian time, 4pm GMT, tomorrow. Near-final results are expected by 9pm GMT. If it's as close as it was last time, the result won't be known until Monday or Tuesday.
Will postals be counted later on when they know how many net votes are needed to overturn Hofer's lead ?
Dr. Foxinsox, I'm not sure it's accurate to suggest the frequency or degree of Farron mockery has altered in any way in recent days. It's the same as it ever was.
The LibDums are mocked for their dirty play and hollow policy. http://order-order.com/2016/12/01/libdem-fake-news-richmond/ I remember the debate on the Lisbon Treaty - the Tories wanted a referendum on the Treaty, the LibDums said they wanted a referendum on leaving the EU!
What are the chances that UKIP leapfrog Labour into 2nd in Sleaford? Will they continue to be irrelevant when that happens?
1/4 with PP.
I would put it a lot lower. Victoria Ayling is an appallling candidate for UKIP.
Ayling gaining prominence would be almost as bad news for Brexit as Olney's win in Richmond.
For those who missed my clip. This is VA campaigning for UKIP last May in the UKIP target seat of Grimsby. It was on Sunday Politics East Midlands. I piled on Labour on that seat and did very nicely. She offends everyone she meets:
Obviously as the byelection takes place outside the M25 it is of little interest to the MSM.
The downgrading of Grantham Hospital A/E, and local issues over transport seem to be the other issue along with Brexit. The LD is the only pro-EU candidate in a constituency with a 38% Remain vote. The Lab candidate is a WWC bin lorry driver and Trade Unionist. The OMRLP candidate is rather boring.
I have no problem with any broadcaster, radio or TV, inviting whichever guest they choose to interview or appear on a panel. If people don't like the choice of guest, or feel they are hard done to, they can always find another outlet to soothe their confirmation bias. There must be a thousand outlets for anyone, whatever their political persuasion (even the lib dems). What I do have a very big problem with, however, is being forced to PAY for a socialised broadcaster through a mandatory tax. As far as I am aware, not even the Chinese and the North Koreans subject their populations to that level of state funded propaganda. I can certainly choose not to watch or listen to the BBC, and I often do, but I cannot choose not to pay for it. It is at the very least immoral, and at the very worst, something nearing Orwellian totalitarianism.
Dr. Foxinsox, I'm not sure it's accurate to suggest the frequency or degree of Farron mockery has altered in any way in recent days. It's the same as it ever was.
The LibDums are mocked for their dirty play and hollow policy. http://order-order.com/2016/12/01/libdem-fake-news-richmond/ I remember the debate on the Lisbon Treaty - the Tories wanted a referendum on the Treaty, the LibDums said they wanted a referendum on leaving the EU!
The Lib Dems are consistent. We are still calling for an EU referendum. :-)
If a GE was held in 2017 I assume only Theresa May and Corbyn would be involved in the main tv debates
I don't think that is tenable anymore, there will be multiple leaders debatrs as last time.
The inclusion of the SNP would certainly be welcome for the Tories. Any reminder that a Labour Government would not only be led by Jeremy Corbyn but also have its strings pulled by Scottish Nationalism can only help them everywhere south of the Tweed.
Mr. Perdix, I recall that. Wasn't it the time Clegg had a three-line whip on abstaining because he really wanted a referendum on leaving or staying, not the treaty?
Mr. Pulpstar, quite. Frankly, if Hofer wins I think there'll be more confidence in the result. If there were voting irregularities last time, why not just discount the dubious votes?
I do wonder what would've happened if the question marks had been over Hofer supporters rather than van der Bellen.
If a GE was held in 2017 I assume only Theresa May and Corbyn would be involved in the main tv debates
I don't think that is tenable anymore, there will be multiple leaders debatrs as last time.
The inclusion of the SNP would certainly be welcome for the Tories. Any reminder that a Labour Government would not only be led by Jeremy Corbyn but also have its strings pulled by Scottish Nationalism can only help them everywhere south of the Tweed.
I dunno. I am increasingly liking Ms Sturgeon, I would be happy to see the SNP represented in government.
Mr. Evershed, the media should cover politics reflecting the results, not giving exaggerated coverage to parties who are inept and manage to achieve few victories but a glorious waste of second places.
Dr. Foxinsox, I'm not sure it's accurate to suggest the frequency or degree of Farron mockery has altered in any way in recent days. It's the same as it ever was.
The LibDums are mocked for their dirty play and hollow policy. http://order-order.com/2016/12/01/libdem-fake-news-richmond/ I remember the debate on the Lisbon Treaty - the Tories wanted a referendum on the Treaty, the LibDums said they wanted a referendum on leaving the EU!
The Lib Dems are consistent. We are still calling for an EU referendum. :-)
I have no problem with any broadcaster, radio or TV, inviting whichever guest they choose to interview or appear on a panel. If people don't like the choice of guest, or feel they are hard done to, they can always find another outlet to soothe their confirmation bias. There must be a thousand outlets for anyone, whatever their political persuasion (even the lib dems). What I do have a very big problem with, however, is being forced to PAY for a socialised broadcaster through a mandatory tax. As far as I am aware, not even the Chinese and the North Koreans subject their populations to that level of state funded propaganda. I can certainly choose not to watch or listen to the BBC, and I often do, but I cannot choose not to pay for it. It is at the very least immoral, and at the very worst, something nearing Orwellian totalitarianism.
The BBC is worse than Chinese or North Korean propaganda? Wow.
Dr. Foxinsox, I'm not sure it's accurate to suggest the frequency or degree of Farron mockery has altered in any way in recent days. It's the same as it ever was.
The LibDums are mocked for their dirty play and hollow policy. http://order-order.com/2016/12/01/libdem-fake-news-richmond/ I remember the debate on the Lisbon Treaty - the Tories wanted a referendum on the Treaty, the LibDums said they wanted a referendum on leaving the EU!
The Lib Dems are consistent. We are still calling for an EU referendum. :-)
Lib Dems only call for an EU referendum when the Govt does not want one and it is unlikely to happen. When an EU referendum is likely then the Lib Dems oppose it.
Dr. Foxinsox, I'm not sure it's accurate to suggest the frequency or degree of Farron mockery has altered in any way in recent days. It's the same as it ever was.
The LibDums are mocked for their dirty play and hollow policy. http://order-order.com/2016/12/01/libdem-fake-news-richmond/ I remember the debate on the Lisbon Treaty - the Tories wanted a referendum on the Treaty, the LibDums said they wanted a referendum on leaving the EU!
The Lib Dems are consistent. We are still calling for an EU referendum. :-)
Mr/Ms Fox
How are the Lib Dems doing in S Oxon?
No idea, I live in Leics. Oxon is not my chicken coop!
If a GE was held in 2017 I assume only Theresa May and Corbyn would be involved in the main tv debates
I don't think that is tenable anymore, there will be multiple leaders debatrs as last time.
The inclusion of the SNP would certainly be welcome for the Tories. Any reminder that a Labour Government would not only be led by Jeremy Corbyn but also have its strings pulled by Scottish Nationalism can only help them everywhere south of the Tweed.
I dunno. I am increasingly liking Ms Sturgeon, I would be happy to see the SNP represented in government.
I think that you will find that you are in a minority.
IIRC, the last time PB published its favourability ratings the SNP was included. It broke even amongst Remain voters, but was about as popular as cancer amongst the Leavers.
It certainly repels an awful lot more voters outside of Scotland than it attracts. And given that outside of Scotland = 92% of the UK, this is something of a problem for those tainted by association with it, as EdM found to his cost.
Following Sleaford where are the next parliamentary by elections likely to be ?
Liverpool Walton and Leigh will almost certainly follow the Merseyside and Greater Manchester mayoral elections . Manchester Gorton is likely as Kaufman has not been well enough to appear in Parliament since May . Letwin in West Dorset has already announced he will not stand again and the animosity between him and May could lead him to decide to go earlier . Ben Howlett in Bath may still be in trouble with the police and the local press this week have been having a go at him over his expenses claims .
As an official 'EU Champion' in Parliament and one of those who has often said that important decisions should not be left to the people I would love to see Howlett crash and burn. He really is a most obnoxious character.
It certainly repels an awful lot more voters outside of Scotland than it attracts. And given that outside of Scotland = 92% of the UK, this is something of a problem for those tainted by association with it, as EdM found to his cost.
It's also then a problem for the UK, or for the minority who identify primarily with the UK. Even UKIP have stopped paying lip service to the UK component of their name, despite it making them look a bit dickish (not ever a problem for them tbf).
Comments
Dr. Prasannan, no. Lib Dems won 8 seats, UKIP won 1. Clear yellow victory.
UKIP 3.9 million votes
LibDems 2.4 million
And we'd probably have a Con-Ukip coalition Government.
Profit is what counts. MPs make governments, not bar charts.
Dr. Prasannan (2), it'll always be ununpentium to me.
https://twitter.com/pourmecoffee/status/805067591601496064
The mocking of the LDs by the PB Brexiteers does show that they are rather frit, as May dithers and delays about Brexit. They see their prize slipping away...
Richmond Park - UKIP were never relevant and didn't stand
Witney - they were not relevant here either
Tooting - again, not UKIP territory
Ogmore - their vote share went up here
Sheffield Brightside - 20% of the vote, down 2%
Oldham West - 23.4%, up 2.8%
So you are basing your conclusion on the basis of Witney and Tooting? On what planet were these EVER fertile for UKIP ?
Wasn't your previous post that it didn't matter Labour lost their deposit in Richmond?
Lab 49.6%
Con 21.7%
UKIP 12.9%
LibDem 9.1%
Con 30.7%
Lab 29.9%
LDem 17.2%
UKIP 7.2%
Green 3.1%
Nats 4.4%
Others 8.5%
I would put it a lot lower. Victoria Ayling is an appallling candidate for UKIP.
Yeah, Drumpf is such an idiot, I mean he went and gave tax breaks to keep jobs in America, but here we've got the EU to tells us we can't do that - praise the flying spaghetti monster we have the EU to protect us from such maniacs. Hail Brussels. Hail EU. Fuck Drumpf, fuck Amerikkkkkkkkka.
Farron is a political lightweight and the Lib Dems will continue to be a largely irrelevant party until they ditch him.
LibDem 13
UKIP 6
Lab 1
Con 0
But she will have appeared on a million leaflets, pointing at potholes....
https://youtu.be/ZDVyqjrsPqU
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38196303
Big gaps between back and lay prices for Hofer and van der Bellen, and not a tiny market either, albeit less than half the size of the Italian one:
Hofer 1.32 - 1.43 (in from back price 1.45 five hours ago)
van der Bellen 3.15 - 3.7
A little bird tells me the bods at the New York Times Berlin desk think Hofer is nailed on.
Italy
Yes 3.45 - 3.6
No 1.38 - 1.4 (about the same as back price 1.37 five hours ago)
As such the value lies with Van der Bellen.
"However, the spokesman added that if the amendment failed, Labour "will not vote against the Article 50 bill"."
LibDem 13
UKIP 6
Con 1
Lab 1
;-)
Also wasn't Oldham West this Parliament?
Tick tock
No Tory against Zac in Richmond.
Tory activists pounded the street for Zac.
Tory MPs canvassed for Zac.
Tory data made available for Zac.
Zac loses.
"Nope. Nothing to do with us!"
It's so true - victory has hundreds of fathers; defeat is an orphan.
I look forward to the extinction of both parties as neither of them now has anything useful to contribute to politics beyond whining from the margins.
Liverpool Walton and Leigh will almost certainly follow the Merseyside and Greater Manchester mayoral elections . Manchester Gorton is likely as Kaufman has not been well enough to appear in Parliament since May . Letwin in West Dorset has already announced he will not stand again and the animosity between him and May could lead him to decide to go earlier .
Ben Howlett in Bath may still be in trouble with the police and the local press this week have been having a go at him over his expenses claims .
http://order-order.com/2016/12/01/libdem-fake-news-richmond/
I remember the debate on the Lisbon Treaty - the Tories wanted a referendum on the Treaty, the LibDums said they wanted a referendum on leaving the EU!
http://lincolnshirereporter.co.uk/2016/12/full-sleaford-north-hykeham-election-live-chats/
Obviously as the byelection takes place outside the M25 it is of little interest to the MSM.
The downgrading of Grantham Hospital A/E, and local issues over transport seem to be the other issue along with Brexit. The LD is the only pro-EU candidate in a constituency with a 38% Remain vote. The Lab candidate is a WWC bin lorry driver and Trade Unionist. The OMRLP candidate is rather boring.
The Lib Dems, the Greens, Labour, the SNP, Plaid - yet only c. 45% of the electorate among them. Tories and UKIP = 55%
There is absolutely no justification for the proliferation of so many voices who represent the minority in this country.
Mr. Pulpstar, quite. Frankly, if Hofer wins I think there'll be more confidence in the result. If there were voting irregularities last time, why not just discount the dubious votes?
I do wonder what would've happened if the question marks had been over Hofer supporters rather than van der Bellen.
Otherwise the FPTP system distorts the airwaves too.
I was one of the crazy 754
How are the Lib Dems doing in S Oxon?
I cannot win every week.
Wow.
Mrs May's pretty crap performance at PMQs shows she's not good at stuff like this.
Also worth remembering Hague was better than Blair, for all the good that did him.
[I remain underwhelmed by May, I just don't think PMQs matter too much].
IIRC, the last time PB published its favourability ratings the SNP was included. It broke even amongst Remain voters, but was about as popular as cancer amongst the Leavers.
It certainly repels an awful lot more voters outside of Scotland than it attracts. And given that outside of Scotland = 92% of the UK, this is something of a problem for those tainted by association with it, as EdM found to his cost.
38% Remain in the constituency is a reasonable pool to fish in, and LDs were second in S and H in 2010, so a significant vote in recent memory.
"Do we need Tony Blair" o_OOOO_o !!