Kevin Maguire: RIP Fidel Castro, 90. Cuba's revolutionary leader outlived US Presidents who tried to have him assassinated.
There's nothing really wrong with this. Whatever you think of him US Presidents did try to assassinate him. What's odd in a way is how nowadays being revoluntionary means preserving things in aspic.
Individuals buying EU citizenship if they want it? What's the downside? It's be no different than people having dual citizenship?
If Brits that want EU citizenship can pay — put your money where your mouth is Remainers —and if we don't have to offer any reciprocal arrangement, then it is a win-win for the UK. Obviously there is a cost, but it will be borne by those that want EU citizenship. There has to be a gotcha as this is verging on the too good to be true.
If there was a reciprocal arrangement then it would lead to the bizarre situation of all comers purchasing passports for cash. Holding a EU passport would grant them unrestricted access to the UK and of course social welfare and the NHS. Within years if not even months the system in the UK would collapse under this onslaught. Of course that's precisely what the EU wish to happen by this suggestion to drive a wedge.
Never ever trust anything the unelected , unrepresentative EU say or do. It's always based around their project for the people and paying more money to them or cash for access for the privilege.
Of course there will always be a number of quislings that would happily join Vichy Europe at the expense of the rest of the world and the U.K.
Hardly! Any reciprocal deal for EU citizens would mean the status quo rather than the apocalypse.
I, like many others, would happily take up dual citizenship of the EU and UK if it were to exist. Quite apart from the utility of free movement and ability to retire to the sun it would match my identity.
You missed the entire point.
The statement by the original poster inferred anyone world wide would get access to a EU passport for a cash sum and as such access to the UK without further checks and verifications. " cash for passports"
Given the way the EU treats its scurity it probably amounts to the same thing though.
Again you also equate directly the geographical region we all I've in with the corrupt undemocratic system of government of the EU. Apples and pears of course but not unsurprising.
I understood the proposal to buy EU passports was for UK citizens post Brexit, not an open offer to the world.
I don't consider the EU government corrupt or undemocratic, compared to across the pond it looks like a shining city on the hill.
Already this morning we've seen Angela Merkel compared with Robert Mugabe and Remainers called quislings. All in a day's work for the WTW Leavers.
You seem a little miffed that your own output is being overtaken?
If you think that Angela Merkel is comparable to a brutal dictator, you are deranged.
If you think that wanting Britain to remain in the EU is comparable to being a treacherous Nazi sympathiser, you are deranged.
Sadly, it is apparent that many Leavers sincerely believe this lunacy.
Hate to say it, but me Meeks has a point. Merkel to Mugabe comparisons work as a joke, but surely we're all getting tired of the treason jibes by now? We cannot do anything about calling each other idiots, but the treason crap is getting silly. Judges upholding the law, as they see it, is near enough treason to some!
Let's move onto better topics - who's next in a world leader deadpool?
Individuals buying EU citizenship if they want it? What's the downside? It's be no different than people having dual citizenship?
If Brits that want EU citizenship can pay — put your money where your mouth is Remainers —and if we don't have to offer any reciprocal arrangement, then it is a win-win for the UK. Obviously there is a cost, but it will be borne by those that want EU citizenship. There has to be a gotcha as this is verging on the too good to be true.
If there was a reciprocal arrangement then it would lead to the bizarre situation of all comers purchasing passports for cash. Holding a EU passport would grant them unrestricted access to the UK and of course social welfare and the NHS. Within years if not even months the system in the UK would collapse under this onslaught. Of course that's precisely what the EU wish to happen by this suggestion to drive a wedge.
Never ever trust anything the unelected , unrepresentative EU say or do. It's always based around their project for the people and paying more money to them or cash for access for the privilege.
Of course there will always be a number of quislings that would happily join Vichy Europe at the expense of the rest of the world and the U.K.
Hardly! Any reciprocal deal for EU citizens would mean the status quo rather than the apocalypse.
I, like many others, would happily take up dual citizenship of the EU and UK if it were to exist. Quite apart from the utility of free movement and ability to retire to the sun it would match my identity.
You missed the entire point.
The statement by the original poster inferred anyone world wide would get access to a EU passport for a cash sum and as such access to the UK without further checks and verifications. " cash for passports"
Given the way the EU treats its scurity it probably amounts to the same thing though.
Again you also equate directly the geographical region we all I've in with the corrupt undemocratic system of government of the EU. Apples and pears of course but not unsurprising.
I understood the proposal to buy EU passports was for UK citizens post Brexit, not an open offer to the world.
I don't consider the EU government corrupt or undemocratic, compared to across the pond it looks like a shining city on the hill.
Fine and I fully respect your view. My view is quite the opposite but has no less worth or value than yours.
Individuals buying EU citizenship if they want it? What's the downside? It's be no different than people having dual citizenship?
If Brits that want EU citizenship can pay — put your money where your mouth is Remainers —and if we don't have to offer any reciprocal arrangement, then it is a win-win for the UK. Obviously there is a cost, but it will be borne by those that want EU citizenship. There has to be a gotcha as this is verging on the too good to be true.
If there was a reciprocal arrangement then it would lead to the bizarre situation of all comers purchasing passports for cash. Holding a EU passport would grant them unrestricted access to the UK and of course social welfare and the NHS. Within years if not even months the system in the UK would collapse under this onslaught. Of course that's precisely what the EU wish to happen by this suggestion to drive a wedge.
Never ever trust anything the unelected , unrepresentative EU say or do. It's always based around their project for the people and paying more money to them or cash for access for the privilege.
Of course there will always be a number of quislings that would happily join Vichy Europe at the expense of the rest of the world and the U.K.
Hardly! Any reciprocal deal for EU citizens would mean the status quo rather than the apocalypse.
I, like many others, would happily take up dual citizenship of the EU and UK if it were to exist. Quite apart from the utility of free movement and ability to retire to the sun it would match my identity.
You missed the entire point.
The statement by the original poster inferred anyone world wide would get access to a EU passport for a cash sum and as such access to the UK without further checks and verifications. " cash for passports"
Given the way the EU treats its scurity it probably amounts to the same thing though.
Again you also equate directly the geographical region we all I've in with the corrupt undemocratic system of government of the EU. Apples and pears of course but not unsurprising.
I understood the proposal to buy EU passports was for UK citizens post Brexit, not an open offer to the world.
I don't consider the EU government corrupt or undemocratic, compared to across the pond it looks like a shining city on the hill.
Fine and I fully respect your view. My view is quite the opposite but has no less worth or value than yours.
Calling me a Quisling is hardly "fully respecting my view"!
Mr. kle4, indeed. Sometimes a bit too off the wall (although I did like Crichton telling hallucination-Scorpius that he was insane for wanting pizza and margarita[sp] shooters).
On Mugabe: isn't he just a figurehead for the generals?
And, going back to sci-fi, there are some suggestions the mooted new Star Trek series has hit the buffers.
Already this morning we've seen Angela Merkel compared with Robert Mugabe and Remainers called quislings. All in a day's work for the WTW Leavers.
You seem a little miffed that your own output is being overtaken?
If you think that Angela Merkel is comparable to a brutal dictator, you are deranged.
If you think that wanting Britain to remain in the EU is comparable to being a treacherous Nazi sympathiser, you are deranged.
Sadly, it is apparent that many Leavers sincerely believe this lunacy.
Definition of quisling
"a traitor who collaborates with an enemy force occupying their country"
No Nazi mentioned there... You are though beyond help...
Um, the word comes from the name of a nazi collaborator, the connection is inescapable. Vichy Europe was also part of phrasing. It was a joke, but a nazi themed one.
Individuals buying EU citizenship if they want it? What's the downside? It's be no different than people having dual citizenship?
If Brits that want EU.
Of course there will always be a number of quislings that would happily join Vichy Europe at the expense of the rest of the world and the U.K.
Hardly! Any reciprocal deal for EU citizens would mean the status quo rather than the apocalypse.
I, like many others, would happily take up dual citizenship of the EU and UK if it were to exist. Quite apart from the utility of free movement and ability to retire to the sun it would match my identity.
You missed the entire point.
The statement by the original poster inferred anyone world wide would get access to a EU passport for a cash sum and as such access to the UK without further checks and verifications. " cash for passports"
Given the way the EU treats its scurity it probably amounts to the same thing though.
Again you also equate directly the geographical region we all I've in with the corrupt undemocratic system of government of the EU. Apples and pears of course but not unsurprising.
I understood the proposal to buy EU passports was for UK citizens post Brexit, not an open offer to the world.
Basically associate status then, certain privileged nations, or their citizens, can have access and rights of the eu if they wish. Probably fiendishly complicated and will fall by the wayside, but it'll be interesting to see if the suggestion develops as the initial pitch seems appealing.
Rubbish; in fact, I'd say bullsh*t. Regardless of whether you supported Trump or Clinton, you should be applauding these recounts.
I wish people would just use a little intelligence on this. The Internet is just one potential attack vector for the machines; there are plenty of others. Yet the companies who create the machines, and the people who order them, seem not to care.
Think about that for a minute: these machines are not fit for purpose yet they are used. As was shown yesterday, the Michigan machines are relatively easy to reprogram (your hardest problem if you have access to the machines might be finding a laptop with a serial port, or a USB<->Serial dongle that works).
As an example, at least one PA state uses the Sequoia AVC Advantage®, by the company that was behind the infamous 'hanging chad' controversy because they knowingly supplied poor-quality punched cards. They also tried to take computer scientists to court when they were sent machines to perform a security audit on.
So not only is the article you linked to wrong, it is blind, dumb and stupid. A bit like the people who chose to use such systems; though that is giving them credit - the worry is that they know what they were doing and did so because the systems can be gamed.
But even with a recount, I'm not sure we will ever know how much bigger Trump's victory would have been if all those well-meaning liberal hackers hadn't been so busy.....
It's perfectly possible that the fraud was on the other side, or even no side: someone or some group interfering with the election for LOLs. But as ever, the point goes whooshing merrily over your head.
Why is that of any relevance? Of course people who lost will want recounts: the point is that the voting systems are so flawed that such calls are utterly reasonable. And for the record, I'd say that if the votes were the other way as well.
Like the court case over A50, the rights or wrongs of their case are what matters; not their motives for bringing their case.
Looks like about two thirds of towns use optical scanners to count the vote (and I bet it is the larger towns that do), the same method as in the WI count, yet there are no calls for the vote to be checked there. Fair enough to say that the counting method is not good enough, but at least be consistent. If it isn't good enough for WI, then it isn't good enough for NH.
I'm being perfectly consistent. My criticism is of the use of flawed and potentially hackable voting systems that allow mass manipulation of votes; criticisms I was airing on here well before this election.
You'd have to ask Jill Stein why she doesn't want a recount in NH; but I fully support her right to do so in states where such terrible systems are in place.
As for your link; it'd be good to know how much the votes changed by in the recounts.
Rubbish; in fact, I'd say bullsh*t. Regardless of whether you supported Trump or Clinton, you should be applauding these recounts.
I wish people would just use a little intelligence on this. The Internet is just one potential attack vector for the machines; there are plenty of others. Yet the companies who create the machines, and the people who order them, seem not to care.
Think about that for a minute: these machines are not fit for purpose yet they are used. As was shown yesterday, the Michigan machines are relatively easy to reprogram (your hardest problem if you have access to the machines might be finding a laptop with a serial port, or a USB<->Serial dongle that works).
As an example, at least one PA state uses the Sequoia AVC Advantage®, by the company that was behind the infamous 'hanging chad' controversy because they knowingly supplied poor-quality punched cards. They also tried to take computer scientists to court when they were sent machines to perform a security audit on.
So not only is the article you linked to wrong, it is blind, dumb and stupid. A bit like the people who chose to use such systems; though that is giving them credit - the worry is that they know what they were doing and did so because the systems can be gamed.
But even with a recount, I'm not sure we will ever know how much bigger Trump's victory would have been if all those well-meaning liberal hackers hadn't been so busy.....
It's perfectly possible that the fraud was on the other side, or even no side: someone or some group interfering with the election for LOLs. But as ever, the point goes whooshing merrily over your head.
Of course it doesn't go over my head. Nincompoop.
Don't be hard on yourself. You're not a nincompoop, even if you sometimes act like one.
Mr dancer is correct, no grumpiness. I see one of the last speeches Castro gave he was saying how Cuban communism was still valid and how the people 'will' be victorious. Isn't that always the way, 60 years of one party rule and the people still haven't yet won, apparently?
What is a recount going to prove? Unless the Americans and their computers can't count - not impossible, I accept - it isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. If there are allegations of fraud these need to be investigated properly.
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
Already this morning we've seen Angela Merkel compared with Robert Mugabe and Remainers called quislings. All in a day's work for the WTW Leavers.
You seem a little miffed that your own output is being overtaken?
If you think that Angela Merkel is comparable to a brutal dictator, you are deranged.
If you think that wanting Britain to remain in the EU is comparable to being a treacherous Nazi sympathiser, you are deranged.
Sadly, it is apparent that many Leavers sincerely believe this lunacy.
Definition of quisling
"a traitor who collaborates with an enemy force occupying their country"
No Nazi mentioned there... You are though beyond help...
Um, the word cones from the name of a nazi collaborator, the connection is inescapable.
Yes I know but has become a byword since. In regard to references I also refer you back to Remainer comments in the many Brexit threads which were as bad if not worse on occasions.
Stop throwing boulders in your European glass houses and we can all respect each other's views.
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
It's only just emerging. We don't yet know how big it could be. You can hardly argue that the Saville saga wasn't a big deal.
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
Are there suggestions at this time that the authorities were reluctant to investigate allegations due to who the perpetrators were, because that was the case in Rotherham, there due to racial sensitivity. If there were accusations and the authorities ignored it or messed up, we will all, left and right, be outraged I'm sure. If it was a case that accusations were not made, the authorities didn't mess up investigation, though clearly safeguarding was messed up, and it is merely a tragedy. You last sentence has the answer that it might well be quite different situations, with different lessons needing to be learned. If it turns out coaches have heightened opportunities to abuse and it was looked at carefully enough it seems closer to a saville situation than Rotherham.
Ken on R4 giving a "well at least the trains ran on time" defence of Fidel.
In fairness, he conceded Fidel had a slightly patchy record on lesbian rights in the very early years. Other than that minor niggle, the old fellow was basically perfect apparently. Do there it is.
What is a recount going to prove? Unless the Americans and their computers can't count - not impossible, I accept - it isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. If there are allegations of fraud these need to be investigated properly.
Recounts, where possible, will indicate whether the votes were counted properly. If a recount (again, where possible) shows the machines' tallies are seriously out of whack, then more investigation is needed into why - it might not just be fraud; e.g. it could be bugs within the system.
On the other hand, if it shows that the initial counts were correct (within a justifiable margin) then it indicates that the flaws in the system has not been exploited. It would not show that the system is unflawed or safe.
Whichever the result, a recount is justified given the unreliable (and sadly in some case unverifiable) systems used.
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
It's only just emerging. We don't yet know how big it could be. You can hardly argue that the Saville saga wasn't a big deal.
Perhaps. But it's hard to avoid the conclusion that if the named perpetrator's surname wasn't Bennell but Ben Ali we'd be hearing more about it on here.
Why is that of any relevance? Of course people who lost will want recounts: the point is that the voting systems are so flawed that such calls are utterly reasonable. And for the record, I'd say that if the votes were the other way as well.
Like the court case over A50, the rights or wrongs of their case are what matters; not their motives for bringing their case.
Looks like about two thirds of towns use optical scanners to count the vote (and I bet it is the larger towns that do), the same method as in the WI count, yet there are no calls for the vote to be checked there. Fair enough to say that the counting method is not good enough, but at least be consistent. If it isn't good enough for WI, then it isn't good enough for NH.
I'm being perfectly consistent. My criticism is of the use of flawed and potentially hackable voting systems that allow mass manipulation of votes; criticisms I was airing on here well before this election.
You'd have to ask Jill Stein why she doesn't want a recount in NH; but I fully support her right to do so in states where such terrible systems are in place.
As for your link; it'd be good to know how much the votes changed by in the recounts.
Oh I wasn't calling for you to be consistent, rather those like Stein who are publicly calling for the recounts.
As for the change, I am not sure, but you can bet they were small.
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
Sorry Alastair, I didn't realise there was a requirement for us to signal our virtue in a prompt manner. Let's put that right.
I fear what's gone on in football is the tip of the iceberg. I doubt it's confined to football either. The reason why Rotherham is so toxic is that girls went to the authorities and were ignored and the suspicion is that this was because people wanted to protect Asian men. That doesn't make their crimes worse than other paedophiles, but the anger is directed at the authorities for not acting when they knew what was going on.
Whether kids went to the authorities with information about what was going on at Crewe and possibly other clubs is not known. However, as with Saville at the BBC, I bet people knew. The fact that Crewe sacked this man without explanation would suggest they knew what had gone on. Crewe's academy is very famous and it will be very sad if the Dario Gradi years are tarred by this scandal. However, the truth needs to come out and hopefully other victims come forward.
What is a recount going to prove? Unless the Americans and their computers can't count - not impossible, I accept - it isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. If there are allegations of fraud these need to be investigated properly.
It's made Stein and the Green party a pretty penny, that's for sure.
The study only has data to 2014....but does rather plaintively point point that in that year only 36 crossed the channel in the direction of France, as opposed to the hundreds going in the opposite direction.....
LOL, when a big % of the french population are English emigres you witter on about a handful going the other way in 2014, desperation extreme.
Already this morning we've seen Angela Merkel compared with Robert Mugabe and Remainers called quislings. All in a day's work for the WTW Leavers.
You seem a little miffed that your own output is being overtaken?
If you think that Angela Merkel is comparable to a brutal dictator, you are deranged.
If you think that wanting Britain to remain in the EU is comparable to being a treacherous Nazi sympathiser, you are deranged.
Sadly, it is apparent that many Leavers sincerely believe this lunacy.
Definition of quisling
"a traitor who collaborates with an enemy force occupying their country"
No Nazi mentioned there... You are though beyond help...
Um, the word cones from the name of a nazi collaborator, the connection is inescapable.
Yes I know but has become a byword since. In regard to references I also refer you back to Remainer comments in the many Brexit threads which were as bad if not worse on occasions.
Stop throwing boulders in your European glass houses and we can all respect each other's views.
What is a recount going to prove? Unless the Americans and their computers can't count - not impossible, I accept - it isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. If there are allegations of fraud these need to be investigated properly.
Recounts, where possible, will indicate whether the votes were counted properly. If a recount (again, where possible) shows the machines' tallies are seriously out of whack, then more investigation is needed into why - it might not just be fraud; e.g. it could be bugs within the system.
On the other hand, if it shows that the initial counts were correct (within a justifiable margin) then it indicates that the flaws in the system has not been exploited. It would not show that the system is unflawed or safe.
Whichever the result, a recount is justified given the unreliable (and sadly in some case unverifiable) systems used.
But then you could simply state the recount was rigged
Mr. Meeks, are you really suggesting anyone here isn't disturbed by the recent football revelations and doesn't want justice to be done there?
The scale of the accusations are still emerging, and the suggestion of a potential cover-up is new today.
The scale of Rotherham was at least 1,400, and the inaction by authorities is known.
Not to mention some of us have spent recent days contemplating the final race of the season and the excellent new fantasy novel Kingdom Asunder, available to buy now at all good e-book retailers.
I do think there is a wider point about those who make such accusations or are found to be victims of crime. There's some suggestion that the homosexuality (or possibly the gender) led to police being lacklustre investigating the four murder victims (and that a better initial investigation might have meant only three victims). A third of the Rotherham victims were male, but this rarely gets mentioned. And all the current people saying they were abused at football clubs/training are male.
The assumption of many and assignation of the perpetrator role to men and victim role to women (especially in areas of sexual assault and domestic abuse) is something that ought to be challenged as an implicit starting point.
What is a recount going to prove? Unless the Americans and their computers can't count - not impossible, I accept - it isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. If there are allegations of fraud these need to be investigated properly.
It's made Stein and the Green party a pretty penny, that's for sure.
I don't understand, I thought they had pay money for the recount?
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
It's only just emerging. We don't yet know how big it could be. You can hardly argue that the Saville saga wasn't a big deal.
Perhaps. But it's hard to avoid the conclusion that if the named perpetrator's surname wasn't Bennell but Ben Ali we'd be hearing more about it on here.
That may be so, but that doesn't mean the situations, as reported, are currently comparable, and of course we all hope it wo t become so.
In Rotherham, the police were told, the social workers knew, and it was out on the streets. The football scandal is more similar to the Savile scandal where few people (apart from some at the the BBC possibly) knew it was going on.
No one is denying there seems to have been a problem with some football coaches at the time. So it's worth checking it out fully now.
In Rotherham, the council denied there was a problem. Racial sensitivities prevented there being an adequate response. That is not an issue in football, so I suspect the response will be fast.
What is a recount going to prove? Unless the Americans and their computers can't count - not impossible, I accept - it isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. If there are allegations of fraud these need to be investigated properly.
It's made Stein and the Green party a pretty penny, that's for sure.
I don't understand, I thought they had pay money for the recount?
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
It's only just emerging. We don't yet know how big it could be. You can hardly argue that the Saville saga wasn't a big deal.
I've told this story on here before, but about fifteen years ago a lesbian friend of mine said that there would be a scandal with women in football grooming young girls.
What surprises me about this story is that when Bennell was first jailed in the US, there appears (*) to have been no effort to see if he had been doing the same at the clubs he worked at over here.
And in somewhat related new, David Hamilton's death might be related to allegations against him.
Rubbish; in fact, I'd say bullsh*t. Regardless of whether you supported Trump or Clinton, you should be applauding these recounts.
I wish people would just use a little intelligence on this. The Internet is just one potential attack vector for the machines; there are plenty of others. Yet the companies who create the machines, and the people who order them, seem not to care.
Think about that for a minute: these machines are not fit for purpose yet they are used. As was shown yesterday, the Michigan machines are relatively easy to reprogram (your hardest problem if you have access to the machines might be finding a laptop with a serial port, or a USB<->Serial dongle that works).
As an example, at least one PA state uses the Sequoia AVC Advantage®, by the company that was behind the infamous 'hanging chad' controversy because they knowingly supplied poor-quality punched cards. They also tried to take computer scientists to court when they were sent machines to perform a security audit on.
So not only is the article you linked to wrong, it is blind, dumb and stupid. A bit like the people who chose to use such systems; though that is giving them credit - the worry is that they know what they were doing and did so because the systems can be gamed.
But even with a recount, I'm not sure we will ever know how much bigger Trump's victory would have been if all those well-meaning liberal hackers hadn't been so busy.....
It's perfectly possible that the fraud was on the other side, or even no side: someone or some group interfering with the election for LOLs. But as ever, the point goes whooshing merrily over your head.
Of course it doesn't go over my head. Nincompoop.
Don't be hard on yourself. You're not a nincompoop, even if you sometimes act like one.
For those that were worried the world's supplies of patronising guff might be running low, they can take heart from your postings today....
The study only has data to 2014....but does rather plaintively point point that in that year only 36 crossed the channel in the direction of France, as opposed to the hundreds going in the opposite direction.....
LOL, when a big % of the french population are English emigres you witter on about a handful going the other way in 2014, desperation extreme.
Even more sandwiches short of a picnic this morning.....the topic is about High Salary Earners leaving France.
You'd embarrass yourself less if you ever actually read the background info.....
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
What surprises me about this story is that when Bennell was first jailed in the US, there appears (*) to have been no effort to see if he had been doing the same at the clubs he worked at over here.
(*) It may not have been reported.
Perhaps it's a lack of resources, but you only have to look at the case of the gay dating site killer to realise that joining the dots is not the forte of the police.
What surprises me about this story is that when Bennell was first jailed in the US, there appears (*) to have been no effort to see if he had been doing the same at the clubs he worked at over here.
(*) It may not have been reported.
Perhaps it's a lack of resources, but you only have to look at the case of the gay dating site killer to realise that joining the dots is not the forte of the police.
And after being told how to join the dots by relatives of one of the victims. Incompetent is too good of a word for them.
In Rotherham, the police were told, the social workers knew, and it was out on the streets. The football scandal is more similar to the Savile scandal where few people (apart from some at the the BBC possibly) knew it was going on.
No one is denying there seems to have been a problem with some football coaches at the time. So it's worth checking it out fully now.
In Rotherham, the council denied there was a problem. Racial sensitivities prevented there being an adequate response. That is not an issue in football, so I suspect the response will be fast.
Apart from this, no difference at all.
"The football scandal is more similar to the Savile scandal where few people (apart from some at the the BBC possibly) knew it was going on. "
You can't possibly say that. We don't know. And besides, Saville's crimes were known outside the BBC; remember, the Sun had to pay him damages over a headline.
In this case, Bennell's abuse was well known over twenty years ago when he was jailed for abuse of a British lad in the US. These cases should have been detected then.
I heard an interview with one of the victims yesterday who said that he couldn't speak out at the time as (and I can't remember the exact quote) because "can you imagine what the people on the terraces would shout at us".
Already this morning we've seen Angela Merkel compared with Robert Mugabe and Remainers called quislings. All in a day's work for the WTW Leavers.
You seem a little miffed that your own output is being overtaken?
If you think that Angela Merkel is comparable to a brutal dictator, you are deranged.
If you think that wanting Britain to remain in the EU is comparable to being a treacherous Nazi sympathiser, you are deranged.
Sadly, it is apparent that many Leavers sincerely believe this lunacy.
The current German agenda is to achieve by peaceful means via the EU what the militarism of the German imperialists and the brutality of the Nazis failed to achieve on a permanent basis, namely a Großdeutsches Reich from Brest (-Litewsk) to Brest (Llydaw).
The majority of the British people didn't want to be ruled from Berlin in 1914 or 1939, and the Brexit vote was heavily influenced by those who remembered, or whose parents recalled, these previous eras. The death of the "German" Empress Victoria in 1901 and the Entente Cordiale of 1904 led to a radical re-alignment of the previous pro-German British foreign policy dating back to the days of Louis XIV of France.
unionists getting really desperate when they are talking nice about Germany.
As desperate as Nats contradicting the SNP government on 'who will pay Scottish Pensions'?
There is no such thing as a "Scottish Pension", we are all together don't you know , you may be a bit forgetful but we live in the UK and receive UK state pensions , which I am sure you will also receive in your foreign tax haven. Do English UK citizens receive Spanish pensions on Costa Del Sol or do they actually receive their UK entitlement regardless of where they reside. Just to educate you , when you contribute to a UK state pension , you receiv eyour pension regardless of whether you still reside in the UK when you are entitled to receive it. You have morphed into a poor version of Scottp with your hatred of all things Scottish. Think your nightshift has been a bit long.
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
I raised another topic two hours ago, which also received no comments. Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested.
What is a recount going to prove? Unless the Americans and their computers can't count - not impossible, I accept - it isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. If there are allegations of fraud these need to be investigated properly.
It's made Stein and the Green party a pretty penny, that's for sure.
I don't understand, I thought they had pay money for the recount?
Thank you. There's a bit of me that feels sorry for those that are being tricked into giving money for this. But actually they probably deserve everything they get.
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
I raised another topic two hours ago, which also received no comments. Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested.
Most people are asleep at 7am on a Saturday, or not in the mood for sexual abuse talk.
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
Do you really think this is a political-football worth playing? I do not know of the details of these specific cases but if they boost your ego-manical vapidness please do carry-on.
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
I raised another topic two hours ago, which also received no comments. Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested.
Most people are asleep at 7am on a Saturday, or not in the mood for sexual abuse talk.
Mr. Meeks, I wasn't on two hours ago. And people frequently don't comment when I post F1 stuff. Or videogame comments (incidentally, after almost the last mission in XCOM 2 there's a black screen for minutes then the cutscene replays. So, if that happens to you, just leave it and all will be well).
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
I raised another topic two hours ago, which also received no comments. Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested.
I haven't read much about the football story (haven't been on the grid much recently), but did read about the Port killings. I was shocked when I watched the short BBC report on it the other day.
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
Sorry Alastair, I didn't realise there was a requirement for us to signal our virtue in a prompt manner. Let's put that right.
I fear what's gone on in football is the tip of the iceberg. I doubt it's confined to football either. The reason why Rotherham is so toxic is that girls went to the authorities and were ignored and the suspicion is that this was because people wanted to protect Asian men. That doesn't make their crimes worse than other paedophiles, but the anger is directed at the authorities for not acting when they knew what was going on.
Whether kids went to the authorities with information about what was going on at Crewe and possibly other clubs is not known. However, as with Saville at the BBC, I bet people knew. The fact that Crewe sacked this man without explanation would suggest they knew what had gone on. Crewe's academy is very famous and it will be very sad if the Dario Gradi years are tarred by this scandal. However, the truth needs to come out and hopefully other victims come forward.
When you look at tbe players who came through the Crewe Alexandra youth system there are some vey well known names. Crewe got rid, but seemto have not found enough evidence to prosecute.
Sports teams, theatre groups, model agencies etc are going to be where paedophiles groom their targets, now that more formal agencies tighten procedures.
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
I raised another topic two hours ago, which also received no comments. Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested.
Most people are asleep at 7am on a Saturday, or not in the mood for sexual abuse talk.
But Brexit never sleeps.
On a more relevant note what's the update on your partner ?
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
I raised another topic two hours ago, which also received no comments. Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested.
7am on a Saturday morning and you're surprised about the lack of replies.
Football is properly murky with a massive culture of secrecy (Look at how many gay footballers there are about publicly) - even boxing and rugby are better.
It is very little surprise to me that rampant child abuse could go on in such a festering culture.
Mr. Meeks, I wasn't on two hours ago. And people frequently don't comment when I post F1 stuff. Or videogame comments (incidentally, after almost the last mission in XCOM 2 there's a black screen for minutes then the cutscene replays. So, if that happens to you, just leave it and all will be well).
But if you make one slight historical error, people will never let you live it down...
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
I raised another topic two hours ago, which also received no comments. Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested.
I pointed out on (Thursday?) morning that there was an excellent interview on R5L with the Chief Exec of Pink News. He seemed less keen to jump to the conclusions that you do above.
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
I raised another topic two hours ago, which also received no comments. Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested.
Most people are asleep at 7am on a Saturday, or not in the mood for sexual abuse talk.
But Brexit never sleeps.
Touché. We know how you remainers operate - we'll go to sleep, you'll pull a fast one, and when we wake up we'll have joined the euro and when I head to the butchers I'll have to buy by the kilo, and that just for starters,
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
I raised another topic two hours ago, which also received no comments. Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested.
Most people are asleep at 7am on a Saturday, or not in the mood for sexual abuse talk.
But Brexit never sleeps.
Touché. We know how you remainers operate - we'll go to sleep, you'll pull a fast one, and when we wake up we'll have joined the euro and when I head to the butchers I'll have to buy by the kilo, and that just for starters,
Another high fat emulsified offal tube for you today, sir?
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
I raised another topic two hours ago, which also received no comments. Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested.
Most people are asleep at 7am on a Saturday, or not in the mood for sexual abuse talk.
But Brexit never sleeps.
Touché. We know how you remainers operate - we'll go to sleep, you'll pull a fast one, and when we wake up we'll have joined the euro and when I head to the butchers I'll have to buy by the kilo, and that just for starters,
Another high fat emulsified offal tube for you today, sir?
*gags *
Not on my watch. We have to preserve hacker's legacy.
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
I raised another topic two hours ago, which also received no comments. Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested.
Most people are asleep at 7am on a Saturday, or not in the mood for sexual abuse talk.
But Brexit never sleeps.
On a more relevant note what's the update on your partner ?
Rubbish; in fact, I'd say bullsh*t. Regardless of whether you supported Trump or Clinton, you should be applauding these recounts.
I wish people would just use a little intelligence on this. The Internet is just one potential attack vector for the machines; there are plenty of others. Yet the companies who create the machines, and the people who order them, seem not to care.
Think about that for a minute: these machines are not fit for purpose yet they are used. As was shown yesterday, the Michigan machines are relatively easy to reprogram (your hardest problem if you have access to the machines might be finding a laptop with a serial port, or a USB<->Serial dongle that works).
As an example, at least one PA state uses the Sequoia AVC Advantage®, by the company that was behind the infamous 'hanging chad' controversy because they knowingly supplied poor-quality punched cards. They also tried to take computer scientists to court when they were sent machines to perform a security audit on.
So not only is the article you linked to wrong, it is blind, dumb and stupid. A bit like the people who chose to use such systems; though that is giving them credit - the worry is that they know what they were doing and did so because the systems can be gamed.
It is most unwise for Jill Stein to be leading this call for a recount.
unionists getting really desperate when they are talking nice about Germany.
As desperate as Nats contradicting the SNP government on 'who will pay Scottish Pensions'?
There is no such thing as a "Scottish Pension"
But there would be in an Independent Scotland - and the Scottish Government would pay it (don't take my word for it, its what the SNP Scottish government says) - despite the latest wheeze by some zoomers about 'how Independence would be great, really, coz the UK is going to pay for our pensions (otherwise the sums don't work...)'
Football is properly murky with a massive culture of secrecy (Look at how many gay footballers there are about publicly) - even boxing and rugby are better.
It is very little surprise to me that rampant child abuse could go on in such a festering culture.
On the topic of a lack of openly gay footballers, it really angers me that it is the fans who get the blame. Would a player get abuse from the stands if they came out? Perhaps, but I think it's far from certain. I suspect the attitude of the changing room is what prevents it. You only have to hear what Antonio Cassano said when he was asked if he thought there were any gay players in the Italy squad at Euro 2012 - "I hope not."
Already this morning we've seen Angela Merkel compared with Robert Mugabe and Remainers called quislings. All in a day's work for the WTW Leavers.
You seem a little miffed that your own output is being overtaken?
If you think that Angela Merkel is comparable to a brutal dictator, you are deranged.
If you think that wanting Britain to remain in the EU is comparable to being a treacherous Nazi sympathiser, you are deranged.
Sadly, it is apparent that many Leavers sincerely believe this lunacy.
The current German agenda is to achieve by peaceful means via the EU what the militarism of the German imperialists and the brutality of the Nazis failed to achieve on a permanent basis, namely a Großdeutsches Reich from Brest (-Litewsk) to Brest (Llydaw).
The majority of the British people didn't want to be ruled from Berlin in 1914 or 1939, and the Brexit vote was heavily influenced by those who remembered, or whose parents recalled, these previous eras. The death of the "German" Empress Victoria in 1901 and the Entente Cordiale of 1904 led to a radical re-alignment of the previous pro-German British foreign policy dating back to the days of Louis XIV of France.
Laughable delusional bollocks!
Germany (and Japan for similar reasons) are completely different countries in terms of overseas expansionism than they were a century ago. Indeed just last week Germany was being criticised on here for not spending enough on its military.
Germany is interested in trade and sound finances. Wouldn't the world be a better place if the rest of us were too? That is the extent of German ambition in the 21st Century.
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
Sorry Alastair, I didn't realise there was a requirement for us to signal our virtue in a prompt manner. Let's put that right.
I fear what's gone on in football is the tip of the iceberg. I doubt it's confined to football either. The reason why Rotherham is so toxic is that girls went to the authorities and were ignored and the suspicion is that this was because people wanted to protect Asian men. That doesn't make their crimes worse than other paedophiles, but the anger is directed at the authorities for not acting when they knew what was going on.
Whether kids went to the authorities with information about what was going on at Crewe and possibly other clubs is not known. However, as with Saville at the BBC, I bet people knew. The fact that Crewe sacked this man without explanation would suggest they knew what had gone on. Crewe's academy is very famous and it will be very sad if the Dario Gradi years are tarred by this scandal. However, the truth needs to come out and hopefully other victims come forward.
When you look at tbe players who came through the Crewe Alexandra youth system there are some vey well known names. Crewe got rid, but seemto have not found enough evidence to prosecute.
Sports teams, theatre groups, model agencies etc are going to be where paedophiles groom their targets, now that more formal agencies tighten procedures.
Modelling agencies will turn out to be a huge scandal just like football is about to be. 13-18 year old aspiring models vs a 50 year old photographer.
Mr. G, be interesting to see, if we leave, how EU pensions to their loyal servants (Clegg etc) and less loyal servants (UKIP ex-MEPs) get paid.
MD, they will be paid by EU same as today and UK will continue to pay contributions to cover the exposure for as long as thee existing entitlement remains. It will be expensive. Just the same as if you move your pension , your pension holder has to transfer a large sum of cash to cover it.
"Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested."
The police are not all Sherlock Holmeses. Why do people expect them to have act like ace detectives or social workers. Fortunately, most criminals are not Moriartys either.
Even if there's some lingering homophobia (and that is debatable, as I'm sure there are plenty of gay coppers now), it's not comparable to Rotherham where it seems it was the fear of being thought racist that stayed their hand even when the evidence was incontrovertible.
Football is properly murky with a massive culture of secrecy (Look at how many gay footballers there are about publicly) - even boxing and rugby are better.
It is very little surprise to me that rampant child abuse could go on in such a festering culture.
On the topic of a lack of openly gay footballers, it really angers me that it is the fans who get the blame. Would a player get abuse from the stands if they came out? Perhaps, but I think it's far from certain. I suspect the attitude of the changing room is what prevents it. You only have to hear what Antonio Cassano said when he was asked if he thought there were any gay players in the Italy squad at Euro 2012 - "I hope not."
I think it's pretty certain a gay player would get some abuse from the stands, but I suspect it woukd be far less than sone think. You'll never get rid of idiots 100%, but even as Neanderthal as the stereotype of the terraces is, I find it hard to see that many woukd care, they want the team to do well, who cares what else the players getbuo to personally.
unionists getting really desperate when they are talking nice about Germany.
As desperate as Nats contradicting the SNP government on 'who will pay Scottish Pensions'?
There is no such thing as a "Scottish Pension"
But there would be in an Independent Scotland - and the Scottish Government would pay it (don't take my word for it, its what the SNP Scottish government says) - despite the latest wheeze by some zoomers about 'how Independence would be great, really, coz the UK is going to pay for our pensions (otherwise the sums don't work...)'
You halfwit , of course they would pay "Scottish Pensions" that were accrued in an independent Scotland but they would not pay UK pensions. If you move job do you think your new employer just takes on all your pension liabilities. How thick can unionists be, you been getting educated by that loony unionist financial wizard.
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
Sorry Alastair, I didn't realise there was a requirement for us to signal our virtue in a prompt manner. Let's put that right.
I fear what's gone on in football is the tip of the iceberg. I doubt it's confined to football either. The reason why Rotherham is so toxic is that girls went to the authorities and were ignored and the suspicion is that this was because people wanted to protect Asian men. That doesn't make their crimes worse than other paedophiles, but the anger is directed at the authorities for not acting when they knew what was going on.
Whether kids went to the authorities with information about what was going on at Crewe and possibly other clubs is not known. However, as with Saville at the BBC, I bet people knew. The fact that Crewe sacked this man without explanation would suggest they knew what had gone on. Crewe's academy is very famous and it will be very sad if the Dario Gradi years are tarred by this scandal. However, the truth needs to come out and hopefully other victims come forward.
When you look at tbe players who came through the Crewe Alexandra youth system there are some vey well known names. Crewe got rid, but seemto have not found enough evidence to prosecute.
Sports teams, theatre groups, model agencies etc are going to be where paedophiles groom their targets, now that more formal agencies tighten procedures.
Modelling agencies will turn out to be a huge scandal just like football is about to be. 13-18 year old aspiring models vs a 50 year old photographer.
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
I raised another topic two hours ago, which also received no comments. Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested.
I knew child abuse was rife in football....I have a very close friend who was abused by someone who was responsible for ball boys. My friend is not going to go to the authorities because he wants to keep it in the past, but I am convinced it has impacted on his adult life considerably. I knew the guy.....he was a creepy character and I am convinced he targeted many more kids. I only hope he has been brought to justice.
Fred Talbot was my form teacher for 5 years. There were stories about him, but I always liked him. He was a great teacher and inspired me.
My dad was professionally very close to Stuart Hall.
If I have these kind of contacts and links in the 80's god knows how prevalent, rampant and widespread child abuse really was. It's a terrible thing that paedophiles had such easy access to children.
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
Sorry Alastair, I didn't realise there was a requirement for us to signal our virtue in a prompt manner. Let's put that right.
I fear what's gone on in football is the tip of the iceberg. I doubt it's confined to football either. The reason why Rotherham is so toxic is that girls went to the authorities and were ignored and the suspicion is that this was because people wanted to protect Asian men. That doesn't make their crimes worse than other paedophiles, but the anger is directed at the authorities for not acting when they knew what was going on.
Whether kids went to the authorities with information about what was going on at Crewe and possibly other clubs is not known. However, as with Saville at the BBC, I bet people knew. The fact that Crewe sacked this man without explanation would suggest they knew what had gone on. Crewe's academy is very famous and it will be very sad if the Dario Gradi years are tarred by this scandal. However, the truth needs to come out and hopefully other victims come forward.
When you look at tbe players who came through the Crewe Alexandra youth system there are some vey well known names. Crewe got rid, but seemto have not found enough evidence to prosecute.
Sports teams, theatre groups, model agencies etc are going to be where paedophiles groom their targets, now that more formal agencies tighten procedures.
Modelling agencies will turn out to be a huge scandal just like football is about to be. 13-18 year old aspiring models vs a 50 year old photographer.
Already this morning we've seen Angela Merkel compared with Robert Mugabe and Remainers called quislings. All in a day's work for the WTW Leavers.
You seem a little miffed that your own output is being overtaken?
If you think that Angela Merkel is comparable to a brutal dictator, you are deranged.
If you think that wanting Britain to remain in the EU is comparable to being a treacherous Nazi sympathiser, you are deranged.
Sadly, it is apparent that many Leavers sincerely believe this lunacy.
The current German agenda is to achieve by peaceful means via the EU what the militarism of the German imperialists and the brutality of the Nazis failed to achieve on a permanent basis, namely a Großdeutsches Reich from Brest (-Litewsk) to Brest (Llydaw).
The majority of the British people didn't want to be ruled from Berlin in 1914 or 1939, and the Brexit vote was heavily influenced by those who remembered, or whose parents recalled, these previous eras. The death of the "German" Empress Victoria in 1901 and the Entente Cordiale of 1904 led to a radical re-alignment of the previous pro-German British foreign policy dating back to the days of Louis XIV of France.
Laughable delusional bollocks!
Germany (and Japan for similar reasons) are completely different countries in terms of overseas expansionism than they were a century ago. Indeed just last week Germany was being criticised on here for not spending enough on its military.
Germany is interested in trade and sound finances. Wouldn't the world be a better place if the rest of us were too? That is the extent of German ambition in the 21st Century.
It reminded me of the story of the Japanese soldier who was found after decades in the jungle and wouldn't believe that Japan had lost the war. They invaded half of Asia to secure raw materials for industrial expansion, and there they are having secured raw materials from all over Asia and beyond.
The point daodao isn't getting is that they've realised they can get all that stuff *without needing to rule them*.
Football is properly murky with a massive culture of secrecy (Look at how many gay footballers there are about publicly) - even boxing and rugby are better.
It is very little surprise to me that rampant child abuse could go on in such a festering culture.
On the topic of a lack of openly gay footballers, it really angers me that it is the fans who get the blame. Would a player get abuse from the stands if they came out? Perhaps, but I think it's far from certain. I suspect the attitude of the changing room is what prevents it. You only have to hear what Antonio Cassano said when he was asked if he thought there were any gay players in the Italy squad at Euro 2012 - "I hope not."
I think it's pretty certain a gay player would get some abuse from the stands, but I suspect it woukd be far less than sone think. You'll never get rid of idiots 100%, but even as Neanderthal as the stereotype of the terraces is, I find it hard to see that many woukd care, they want the team to do well, who cares what else the players getbuo to personally.
But the opposing fans wouldn't. And even then, home fans can be brutal.
An old mate of mine was a Millwall Fan; he was educated, with a good (lefty) job and a degree. At the time their goalkeeper was Kasey Keller. He said it was fine to use a racist term against a black player because they also called Keller "A Yank *****"
Already this morning we've seen Angela Merkel compared with Robert Mugabe and Remainers called quislings. All in a day's work for the WTW Leavers.
You seem a little miffed that your own output is being overtaken?
If you think that Angela Merkel is comparable to a brutal dictator, you are deranged.
If you think that wanting Britain to remain in the EU is comparable to being a treacherous Nazi sympathiser, you are deranged.
Sadly, it is apparent that many Leavers sincerely believe this lunacy.
The current German agenda is to achieve by peaceful means via the EU what the militarism of the German imperialists and the brutality of the Nazis failed to achieve on a permanent basis, namely a Großdeutsches Reich from Brest (-Litewsk) to Brest (Llydaw).
The majority of the British people didn't want to be ruled from Berlin in 1914 or 1939, and the Brexit vote was heavily influenced by those who remembered, or whose parents recalled, these previous eras. The death of the "German" Empress Victoria in 1901 and the Entente Cordiale of 1904 led to a radical re-alignment of the previous pro-German British foreign policy dating back to the days of Louis XIV of France.
Laughable delusional bollocks!
Germany (and Japan for similar reasons) are completely different countries in terms of overseas expansionism than they were a century ago. Indeed just last week Germany was being criticised on here for not spending enough on its military.
Germany is interested in trade and sound finances. Wouldn't the world be a better place if the rest of us were too? That is the extent of German ambition in the 21st Century.
I don't believe that Germany wants to be involved in day-to-day rule over more distant countries. They are quite content for compliant satellite states to run the local administration (like Slovakia in the Nazi era), but want a Zollverein with a common currency, foreign policy etc., where they provide the direction. That is the modern vision of "Großdeutsches Reich" to which I was alluding in my previous post.
There probably would be some homophobic abuse from football crowds if players came out. You have to remember they regard themselves as the extra man for the team. Any perceived weakness in opposition players will be ruthlessly seized upon - personal, mental or physical.
In other sports, there's not the same level of adversarial competition.
So what is it that differentiates the current sexual abuse scandal in football from that in, say, Rotherham? That one had rightwingers passionate about the protection of children and the failures of the authorities, but this one doesn't seem to worry them so much. I don't know, could someone explain what the difference might be?
Sorry Alastair, I didn't realise there was a requirement for us to signal our virtue in a prompt manner. Let's put that right.
I fear what's gone on in football is the tip of the iceberg. I doubt it's confined to football either. The reason why Rotherham is so toxic is that girls went to the authorities and were ignored and the suspicion is that this was because people wanted to protect Asian men. That doesn't make their crimes worse than other paedophiles, but the anger is directed at the authorities for not acting when they knew what was going on.
Whether kids went to the authorities with information about what was going on at Crewe and possibly other clubs is not known. However, as with Saville at the BBC, I bet people knew. The fact that Crewe sacked this man without explanation would suggest they knew what had gone on. Crewe's academy is very famous and it will be very sad if the Dario Gradi years are tarred by this scandal. However, the truth needs to come out and hopefully other victims come forward.
When you look at tbe players who came through the Crewe Alexandra youth system there are some vey well known names. Crewe got rid, but seemto have not found enough evidence to prosecute.
Sports teams, theatre groups, model agencies etc are going to be where paedophiles groom their targets, now that more formal agencies tighten procedures.
Modelling agencies will turn out to be a huge scandal just like football is about to be. 13-18 year old aspiring models vs a 50 year old photographer.
Rock groups?
Sort of different, but I dread to think how many underage girls have sent those one direction lads sexual pictures on twitter.
With modelling agencies it will be more a case of grooming and abusing a position of power which is arguably worse.
Already this morning we've seen Angela Merkel compared with Robert Mugabe and Remainers called quislings. All in a day's work for the WTW Leavers.
You seem a little miffed that your own output is being overtaken?
If you think that Angela Merkel is comparable to a brutal dictator, you are deranged.
If you think that wanting Britain to remain in the EU is comparable to being a treacherous Nazi sympathiser, you are deranged.
Sadly, it is apparent that many Leavers sincerely believe this lunacy.
The current German agenda is to achieve by peaceful means via the EU what the militarism of the German imperialists and the brutality of the Nazis failed to achieve on a permanent basis, namely a Großdeutsches Reich from Brest (-Litewsk) to Brest (Llydaw).
The majority of the British people didn't want to be ruled from Berlin in 1914 or 1939, and the Brexit vote was heavily influenced by those who remembered, or whose parents recalled, these previous eras. The death of the "German" Empress Victoria in 1901 and the Entente Cordiale of 1904 led to a radical re-alignment of the previous pro-German British foreign policy dating back to the days of Louis XIV of France.
Laughable delusional bollocks!
Germany (and Japan for similar reasons) are completely different countries in terms of overseas expansionism than they were a century ago. Indeed just last week Germany was being criticised on here for not spending enough on its military.
Germany is interested in trade and sound finances. Wouldn't the world be a better place if the rest of us were too? That is the extent of German ambition in the 21st Century.
It reminded me of the story of the Japanese soldier who was found after decades in the jungle and wouldn't believe that Japan had lost the war. They invaded half of Asia to secure raw materials for industrial expansion, and there they are having secured raw materials from all over Asia and beyond.
The point daodao isn't getting is that they've realised they can get all that stuff *without needing to rule them*.
Much easier and cheaper, occupying countries is a logistical nightmare. Reminds me of the concept of informal empire, equated to me as getting everyone else to play a game of your choosing. They still operate their pieces independently for their own advantage, but it's to rules you devised or which benefit you the most regardless.
Comments
Though maybe it's his wife running things now, she seems to be more prominent by the year.
"a traitor who collaborates with an enemy force occupying their country"
No Nazi mentioned there... You are though beyond help...
I don't consider the EU government corrupt or undemocratic, compared to across the pond it looks like a shining city on the hill.
Let's move onto better topics - who's next in a world leader deadpool?
On Mugabe: isn't he just a figurehead for the generals?
And, going back to sci-fi, there are some suggestions the mooted new Star Trek series has hit the buffers.
You'd have to ask Jill Stein why she doesn't want a recount in NH; but I fully support her right to do so in states where such terrible systems are in place.
As for your link; it'd be good to know how much the votes changed by in the recounts.
Stop throwing boulders in your European glass houses and we can all respect each other's views.
On the other hand, if it shows that the initial counts were correct (within a justifiable margin) then it indicates that the flaws in the system has not been exploited. It would not show that the system is unflawed or safe.
Whichever the result, a recount is justified given the unreliable (and sadly in some case unverifiable) systems used.
As for the change, I am not sure, but you can bet they were small.
I fear what's gone on in football is the tip of the iceberg. I doubt it's confined to football either. The reason why Rotherham is so toxic is that girls went to the authorities and were ignored and the suspicion is that this was because people wanted to protect Asian men. That doesn't make their crimes worse than other paedophiles, but the anger is directed at the authorities for not acting when they knew what was going on.
Whether kids went to the authorities with information about what was going on at Crewe and possibly other clubs is not known. However, as with Saville at the BBC, I bet people knew. The fact that Crewe sacked this man without explanation would suggest they knew what had gone on. Crewe's academy is very famous and it will be very sad if the Dario Gradi years are tarred by this scandal. However, the truth needs to come out and hopefully other victims come forward.
Spliffing comment!
The scale of the accusations are still emerging, and the suggestion of a potential cover-up is new today.
The scale of Rotherham was at least 1,400, and the inaction by authorities is known.
Not to mention some of us have spent recent days contemplating the final race of the season and the excellent new fantasy novel Kingdom Asunder, available to buy now at all good e-book retailers.
I do think there is a wider point about those who make such accusations or are found to be victims of crime. There's some suggestion that the homosexuality (or possibly the gender) led to police being lacklustre investigating the four murder victims (and that a better initial investigation might have meant only three victims). A third of the Rotherham victims were male, but this rarely gets mentioned. And all the current people saying they were abused at football clubs/training are male.
The assumption of many and assignation of the perpetrator role to men and victim role to women (especially in areas of sexual assault and domestic abuse) is something that ought to be challenged as an implicit starting point.
I'll take your question seriously.
In Rotherham, the police were told, the social workers knew, and it was out on the streets. The football scandal is more similar to the Savile scandal where few people (apart from some at the the BBC possibly) knew it was going on.
No one is denying there seems to have been a problem with some football coaches at the time. So it's worth checking it out fully now.
In Rotherham, the council denied there was a problem. Racial sensitivities prevented there being an adequate response. That is not an issue in football, so I suspect the response will be fast.
Apart from this, no difference at all.
What surprises me about this story is that when Bennell was first jailed in the US, there appears (*) to have been no effort to see if he had been doing the same at the clubs he worked at over here.
And in somewhat related new, David Hamilton's death might be related to allegations against him.
(*) It may not have been reported.
You'd embarrass yourself less if you ever actually read the background info.....
In Rotherham one of the concerned mothers went to the police and gave them the evidence of her child's clothing. The police promptly 'lost' them. As this is a betting site, I 'd bet that won't happen here.
You can't possibly say that. We don't know. And besides, Saville's crimes were known outside the BBC; remember, the Sun had to pay him damages over a headline.
In this case, Bennell's abuse was well known over twenty years ago when he was jailed for abuse of a British lad in the US. These cases should have been detected then.
I heard an interview with one of the victims yesterday who said that he couldn't speak out at the time as (and I can't remember the exact quote) because "can you imagine what the people on the terraces would shout at us".
An indictment of football.
http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2016/11/21/what-on-earth-is-going-on-with-sheffields-labour-council/
I guess uncut ran out of anti Corbyn pieces to put up.
The majority of the British people didn't want to be ruled from Berlin in 1914 or 1939, and the Brexit vote was heavily influenced by those who remembered, or whose parents recalled, these previous eras. The death of the "German" Empress Victoria in 1901 and the Entente Cordiale of 1904 led to a radical re-alignment of the previous pro-German British foreign policy dating back to the days of Louis XIV of France.
You have morphed into a poor version of Scottp with your hatred of all things Scottish. Think your nightshift has been a bit long.
David Essex OBE
RIP Fidel Castro
:asshat-alert:
Sports teams, theatre groups, model agencies etc are going to be where paedophiles groom their targets, now that more formal agencies tighten procedures.
It is very little surprise to me that rampant child abuse could go on in such a festering culture.
Not on my watch. We have to preserve hacker's legacy.
She should know when to keep shtum.
Germany (and Japan for similar reasons) are completely different countries in terms of overseas expansionism than they were a century ago. Indeed just last week Germany was being criticised on here for not spending enough on its military.
Germany is interested in trade and sound finances. Wouldn't the world be a better place if the rest of us were too? That is the extent of German ambition in the 21st Century.
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/elite-soldiers-of-ancient-world.html
"Equally awful blunders were made by the police. But since they were poofs, no one seems interested."
The police are not all Sherlock Holmeses. Why do people expect them to have act like ace detectives or social workers. Fortunately, most criminals are not Moriartys either.
Even if there's some lingering homophobia (and that is debatable, as I'm sure there are plenty of gay coppers now), it's not comparable to Rotherham where it seems it was the fear of being thought racist that stayed their hand even when the evidence was incontrovertible.
http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/11/stuart-gardner-do-events-in-lithuania-signal-the-end-for-freedom-of-movement.html
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/10/6/1578544/-The-Untold-Story-of-Trump-Model-Management-A-Daily-Kos-Exclusive-Part-1
I knew child abuse was rife in football....I have a very close friend who was abused by someone who was responsible for ball boys. My friend is not going to go to the authorities because he wants to keep it in the past, but I am convinced it has impacted on his adult life considerably. I knew the guy.....he was a creepy character and I am convinced he targeted many more kids. I only hope he has been brought to justice.
Fred Talbot was my form teacher for 5 years. There were stories about him, but I always liked him. He was a great teacher and inspired me.
My dad was professionally very close to Stuart Hall.
If I have these kind of contacts and links in the 80's god knows how prevalent, rampant and widespread child abuse really was. It's a terrible thing that paedophiles had such easy access to children.
The point daodao isn't getting is that they've realised they can get all that stuff *without needing to rule them*.
An old mate of mine was a Millwall Fan; he was educated, with a good (lefty) job and a degree. At the time their goalkeeper was Kasey Keller. He said it was fine to use a racist term against a black player because they also called Keller "A Yank *****"
In other sports, there's not the same level of adversarial competition.
With modelling agencies it will be more a case of grooming and abusing a position of power which is arguably worse.