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    Mr. Eagles, I'm not sure Flaminius, Marcellus or Paullus would agree with your assessment of Hannibal's capabilities.

    Mr Dancer, to put it into terms you might understand.

    Winning a battle here and there is a bit like winning an F1 Grand Prix.

    Wars are like F1 championships, they are what the true greats are judged on.
    I now have the image of Hannibal's elephants on wet-weather tyres....
    Charlie Whiting would have red flagged the crossing of the Alps.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,015
    So the report was written without any insight into what is actually going on? You'd have thought they would have clarified that pretty pronto.
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    @Tissue_Price That admission begs more questions than it answers.

    You can't blame Deloitte of course: they have an interest in securing future instructions from HMG.
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    Mr. Eagles, he would've delayed the start of the march until spring.
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    Mr. Jessop, not my forte, but isn't gravity one of the four basic forces in the universe?

    Mr. Eagles, here and there? He stomped around Italy for over a decade. He had the most audacious march in history, the most devastating ambush in history and the most crushing battlefield victory in history.

    That's my point, he was leading for 15 out of what 16 years and still lost the war.

    Who wins the grand prix, the chap leading the first 70 laps or the one who crosses the finishing line first?

    I mean what sort of crap general wins the first 15 years of a war, then loses the war in the last year?

    The early victories were the epitome of Pyrrhic.
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    RobD said:

    So the report was written without any insight into what is actually going on? You'd have thought they would have clarified that pretty pronto.
    Deloitte-ful!
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113
    Pulpstar said:

    Off-topic: an interesting new theory 'solves' the dark matter problem of gravity. By saying that gravity is *not* a fundamental force.

    http://phys.org/news/2016-11-theory-gravity-dark.html

    If right, it may solve some of the problems facing physics. And probably create new ones at the same time ...

    Much as I like physics, more engineering ought to be the focus.

    Particularly on mahoosive rockets.

    Some research into the properties of oxygen and helium at low temperatures would be handy mind ;)
    Particularly when in close proximity to, and filling, composite-overwrapped pressure vessels, perchance? ;)

    I'm very sceptical that SpaceX can solve the problem by altering the loading sequence. That may well work, but what happens when they have to unload because of a launch delay, and then reload shortly afterwards? Temperature profiles will be all over the place.

    Much safer to put the COPVs outside the LO tank IMO, but that would involve a significant redesign.

    But what do I know? I'm not a rocket scientists. :(
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    Mr. Eagles, the Battle of Asculum was the epitome of Pyrrhic...

    You may as well claim Thatcher was a failure because she was forced out.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Jeez, what a narcissistic knob the disgraced Liam Fox is

    So, what are the current batch of civil servants getting up to? Well, over in the Department for International Trade, Mr S understands that reading is high on the agenda. Word reaches Steerpike that Liam Fox has instructed his civil servants to read Rising Tides: Facing the Challenges of a New Era — a book that aims to explain ‘how to meet the challenge of the new global reality’. And which bright spark is the author of the tome? A man by the name of… Liam Fox. Well, that’s one way to increase book sales.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/liam-fox-throws-book-civil-servants/

    In fairness I suppose if a minister wants his civil servants to understand his thinking getting them to read his book might make sense.

    Which is not the same as saying Liam Fox isn't a narcissistic knob, of course.
    In this context, surely it's "nob".
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,005

    Pulpstar said:

    Off-topic: an interesting new theory 'solves' the dark matter problem of gravity. By saying that gravity is *not* a fundamental force.

    http://phys.org/news/2016-11-theory-gravity-dark.html

    If right, it may solve some of the problems facing physics. And probably create new ones at the same time ...

    Much as I like physics, more engineering ought to be the focus.

    Particularly on mahoosive rockets.

    Some research into the properties of oxygen and helium at low temperatures would be handy mind ;)
    Particularly when in close proximity to, and filling, composite-overwrapped pressure vessels, perchance? ;)

    I'm very sceptical that SpaceX can solve the problem by altering the loading sequence. That may well work, but what happens when they have to unload because of a launch delay, and then reload shortly afterwards? Temperature profiles will be all over the place.

    Much safer to put the COPVs outside the LO tank IMO, but that would involve a significant redesign.

    But what do I know? I'm not a rocket scientists. :(
    Stuff warms up when they delay a launch, doesn't chill down further - so not an issue I think. (Too warm is also bad but doesn't lead to RUD)
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    Mr. Eagles, the Battle of Asculum was the epitome of Pyrrhic...

    You may as well claim Thatcher was a failure because she was forced out.

    All the true greats are forced out by their own side, Thatcher and Julius Caesar for example.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913

    Mr. Jessop, not my forte, but isn't gravity one of the four basic forces in the universe?

    Maybe not, that's the point.

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    Jeez, what a narcissistic knob the disgraced Liam Fox is

    So, what are the current batch of civil servants getting up to? Well, over in the Department for International Trade, Mr S understands that reading is high on the agenda. Word reaches Steerpike that Liam Fox has instructed his civil servants to read Rising Tides: Facing the Challenges of a New Era — a book that aims to explain ‘how to meet the challenge of the new global reality’. And which bright spark is the author of the tome? A man by the name of… Liam Fox. Well, that’s one way to increase book sales.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/liam-fox-throws-book-civil-servants/

    In fairness I suppose if a minister wants his civil servants to understand his thinking getting them to read his book might make sense.

    Which is not the same as saying Liam Fox isn't a narcissistic knob, of course.
    In this context, surely it's "nob".
    I've always wondered about this.

    Is it knobhead or nobhead?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,162
    Perhaps a super-injunction would be the way to deal with Brexit? Just pretend it doesn't exist and punish anyone who talks about it.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    RobD said:

    So the report was written without any insight into what is actually going on? You'd have thought they would have clarified that pretty pronto.
    All those extra experts we'll need to employ to get Brexit through? Forget it. Something tells me the Govt. just deleted Deloittes from their speed-dial....
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    @Tissue_Price That admission begs more questions than it answers.

    You can't blame Deloitte of course: they have an interest in securing future instructions from HMG.

    I'm sure the form of words they used was very carefully constructed!
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    Curse of the new thread. FPT:

    williamglenn said:

    "The person who wrote it disagrees."

    But what Brexit means was not decided by the referendum.
    No. But what was decided was Brexit. We're going out.
    Yes
    Nope.
    That's your view, as one of the second group. Many (most?) of the first group wouldn't agree. And therein lies the problem.

    Selling any deal where we remain in some EU or European institutions - and especially pay into it - will be really difficult. Perhaps impossibly so.

    It's a mess, and I don't see any easy solutions. I daresay you do, but you're not being realistic IMO.
    I don't think there's any Brexit deal where we remain in some EU or European institutions. There's the customs union, of course, but that isn't the same as being part of the EU, and nor is it an institution. Even the EEA means quitting the ECJ. We will remain a member of the ECHR and Council of Europe (for the time being) no matter what.

    I think paying into the EU is different, as long as the government can demonstrate its for access, with a net benefit trading gain, and a net saving, and not a compulsory membership fee. As usual, voters will weight up the costs and benefits for themselves.

    And, for the record, I'm probably more of a hard Brexiteer than the latter, for what it's worth. I'd be satisfied with either. Just more satisfied with the former.

    This whole "a-ha! you Brexiteers can't agree amongst yourselves what you want!" has always been viewed as be some sort of killer argument by Remainers since Day 1, but it fails to take account that the no.1 objective of Brexiteers is to quit because we viewed remaining in the EU as a neverending escalator to closer harmonisation and integration.

    (And I'm perfectly realistic, thank you very much.)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,005
    I've taken a small bet against there being a GE in 2017, +9.50/-14.99

    If one occurs I should be able to make alot more than £15 from it all.
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    Mr. Jessop, not my forte, but isn't gravity one of the four basic forces in the universe?

    Mr. Eagles, here and there? He stomped around Italy for over a decade. He had the most audacious march in history, the most devastating ambush in history and the most crushing battlefield victory in history.

    That's my point, he was leading for 15 out of what 16 years and still lost the war.

    Who wins the grand prix, the chap leading the first 70 laps or the one who crosses the finishing line first?

    I mean what sort of crap general wins the first 15 years of a war, then loses the war in the last year?

    The early victories were the epitome of Pyrrhic.
    "I mean what sort of crap general wins the first 15 years of a war, then loses the war in the last year?"

    Cameron?
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    Perhaps a super-injunction would be the way to deal with Brexit? Just pretend it doesn't exist and punish anyone who talks about it.

    A B-notice.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Probably reasonable to think that Deloitte won't be commissioned for government work anytime soon, and that one of its employees is looking for fresh pastures. Interested to see the Times take.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    Jeez, what a narcissistic knob the disgraced Liam Fox is

    So, what are the current batch of civil servants getting up to? Well, over in the Department for International Trade, Mr S understands that reading is high on the agenda. Word reaches Steerpike that Liam Fox has instructed his civil servants to read Rising Tides: Facing the Challenges of a New Era — a book that aims to explain ‘how to meet the challenge of the new global reality’. And which bright spark is the author of the tome? A man by the name of… Liam Fox. Well, that’s one way to increase book sales.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/liam-fox-throws-book-civil-servants/

    In fairness I suppose if a minister wants his civil servants to understand his thinking getting them to read his book might make sense.

    Which is not the same as saying Liam Fox isn't a narcissistic knob, of course.
    In this context, surely it's "nob".
    I've always wondered about this.

    Is it knobhead or nobhead?
    Can't we just agree he's a bellend.

    Or is that bell-end?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Yes , mention of a town council by election in Crewe.
    Brian Silvester , UKIP candidate rather foolishly boasted yesterday that he had 9,737 followers on twitter and his Labour opponent had just 17 . Less than 24 hours later he now has 9,786 bur Natasha Maroni now has 14,166 . Perhaps the Conservative candidate will win , he is not on twitter at all .
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    Mr. Eagles, Basil II wasn't.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,416

    @Tissue_Price That admission begs more questions than it answers.

    You can't blame Deloitte of course: they have an interest in securing future instructions from HMG.

    I suspect that their PR office and lawyers have had a very busy day. No doubt this "admission" was dictated to them in very precise terms. And the idiot who wrote the memo in the first place is probably working on his CV as we speak.
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    Mr. Jessop, not my forte, but isn't gravity one of the four basic forces in the universe?

    Mr. Eagles, here and there? He stomped around Italy for over a decade. He had the most audacious march in history, the most devastating ambush in history and the most crushing battlefield victory in history.

    That's my point, he was leading for 15 out of what 16 years and still lost the war.

    Who wins the grand prix, the chap leading the first 70 laps or the one who crosses the finishing line first?

    I mean what sort of crap general wins the first 15 years of a war, then loses the war in the last year?

    The early victories were the epitome of Pyrrhic.
    "I mean what sort of crap general wins the first 15 years of a war, then loses the war in the last year?"

    Cameron?
    I made that exact analogy a few months ago

    But much like Hannibal defeating the Romans in the early part of The Second Punic War, Cameron may have won some battles but ultimately lost the war (to stop the Tories banging on about Europe.)

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/07/24/wiping-out-the-lib-dems-might-have-been-camerons-greatest-strategic-mistake-as-pm/
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113

    Mr. Jessop, not my forte, but isn't gravity one of the four basic forces in the universe?

    (Snip).

    Indeed (*). Weak and strong nuclear, electromagnetism, and gravity. Gravity's by far the weakest of the four, which is why a small toy magnet can overcome the entirety of Earth's gravity when it picks up a paperclip.

    What this guy appears to be saying is that if you assume gravity is not a fundamental force but an *effect* of other things, then much of the messiness and kluges involving things like dark matter disappear.

    (*) Not apologising this time. What are you readers going to do about it, eh?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    DavidL said:

    Take me home, country roads...

    After Donald Trump’s election as president, Pamela Ramsey Taylor, director of the Clay County Development Corp., took to Facebook to comment on the upcoming shift from Obama to Melania Trump, reportedly writing: “It will be so refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady back in the White House. I’m tired of seeing a Ape in heels.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/11/14/ape-in-heels-w-va-officials-under-fire-after-comments-about-michelle-obama/?postshare=1241479225376765&tid=ss_tw

    Wow. I mean, wow.
    Even if it was not intended to be racially derogatory (which I doubt) it's still an awful comment to describe any woman as an "ape".
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Jeez, what a narcissistic knob the disgraced Liam Fox is

    So, what are the current batch of civil servants getting up to? Well, over in the Department for International Trade, Mr S understands that reading is high on the agenda. Word reaches Steerpike that Liam Fox has instructed his civil servants to read Rising Tides: Facing the Challenges of a New Era — a book that aims to explain ‘how to meet the challenge of the new global reality’. And which bright spark is the author of the tome? A man by the name of… Liam Fox. Well, that’s one way to increase book sales.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/liam-fox-throws-book-civil-servants/

    In fairness I suppose if a minister wants his civil servants to understand his thinking getting them to read his book might make sense.

    Which is not the same as saying Liam Fox isn't a narcissistic knob, of course.
    In this context, surely it's "nob".
    I've always wondered about this.

    Is it knobhead or nobhead?
    for the sake of brevity and in the context of my origins, shall we agree it's "nob" - "head" is redundant, a prick's a prick
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    Mr. Eagles, your failure to comprehend history and its lessons is certainly persistent.

    Mr. Jessop, doesn't gravity pass through another dimension which diminishes its power?
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    The Sunday Sport editor was dead right about not hyphenating bellend. I feel just as firmly about it as he did.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off-topic: an interesting new theory 'solves' the dark matter problem of gravity. By saying that gravity is *not* a fundamental force.

    http://phys.org/news/2016-11-theory-gravity-dark.html

    If right, it may solve some of the problems facing physics. And probably create new ones at the same time ...

    Much as I like physics, more engineering ought to be the focus.

    Particularly on mahoosive rockets.

    Some research into the properties of oxygen and helium at low temperatures would be handy mind ;)
    Particularly when in close proximity to, and filling, composite-overwrapped pressure vessels, perchance? ;)

    I'm very sceptical that SpaceX can solve the problem by altering the loading sequence. That may well work, but what happens when they have to unload because of a launch delay, and then reload shortly afterwards? Temperature profiles will be all over the place.

    Much safer to put the COPVs outside the LO tank IMO, but that would involve a significant redesign.

    But what do I know? I'm not a rocket scientists. :(
    Stuff warms up when they delay a launch, doesn't chill down further - so not an issue I think. (Too warm is also bad but doesn't lead to RUD)
    I hope you're right! But if some things warm up a a slower rate than others, then you have a different temperature differential at the start of the refill. P'haps. I got confused just reading up on helium's behaviour when compressed and expanded ...

    Still, looks like they're going for a return-to-flight next month. Let's hope it goes without a bang.
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    The Sunday Sport editor was dead right about not hyphenating bellend. I feel just as firmly about it as he did.

    Same here
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,416
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Take me home, country roads...

    After Donald Trump’s election as president, Pamela Ramsey Taylor, director of the Clay County Development Corp., took to Facebook to comment on the upcoming shift from Obama to Melania Trump, reportedly writing: “It will be so refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady back in the White House. I’m tired of seeing a Ape in heels.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/11/14/ape-in-heels-w-va-officials-under-fire-after-comments-about-michelle-obama/?postshare=1241479225376765&tid=ss_tw

    Wow. I mean, wow.
    Even if it was not intended to be racially derogatory (which I doubt) it's still an awful comment to describe any woman as an "ape".
    Absolutely. The fact that Michelle Obama is classy, beautiful and dignified really does not come into it. In this country I think this would be prosecutable. A sick, sick individual.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113

    I don't think there's any Brexit deal where we remain in some EU or European institutions. There's the customs union, of course, but that isn't the same as being part of the EU, and nor is it an institution. Even the EEA means quitting the ECJ. We will remain a member of the ECHR and Council of Europe (for the time being) no matter what.

    I think paying into the EU is different, as long as the government can demonstrate its for access, with a net benefit trading gain, and a net saving, and not a compulsory membership fee. As usual, voters will weight up the costs and benefits for themselves.

    And, for the record, I'm probably more of a hard Brexiteer than the latter, for what it's worth. I'd be satisfied with either. Just more satisfied with the former.

    This whole "a-ha! you Brexiteers can't agree amongst yourselves what you want!" has always been viewed as be some sort of killer argument by Remainers since Day 1, but it fails to take account that the no.1 objective of Brexiteers is to quit because we viewed remaining in the EU as a neverending escalator to closer harmonisation and integration.

    (And I'm perfectly realistic, thank you very much.)

    I forgot you speak for all Brexiteers. Many may disagree with your "no. 1 objective".

    And you would think you're being realistic. I'm far from sure you are. But hey, reasonable people can reasonably differ on such things. I meant no slight.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Take me home, country roads...

    After Donald Trump’s election as president, Pamela Ramsey Taylor, director of the Clay County Development Corp., took to Facebook to comment on the upcoming shift from Obama to Melania Trump, reportedly writing: “It will be so refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady back in the White House. I’m tired of seeing a Ape in heels.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/11/14/ape-in-heels-w-va-officials-under-fire-after-comments-about-michelle-obama/?postshare=1241479225376765&tid=ss_tw

    Wow. I mean, wow.
    Even if it was not intended to be racially derogatory (which I doubt) it's still an awful comment to describe any woman as an "ape".
    "wow" scarcely does the comment justice, particularly from another woman - the remark is obviously racist but does it also qualify as misogynistic?
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    The Sunday Sport editor was dead right about not hyphenating bellend. I feel just as firmly about it as he did.


    In-deed.
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    Yes , mention of a town council by election in Crewe.
    Brian Silvester , UKIP candidate rather foolishly boasted yesterday that he had 9,737 followers on twitter and his Labour opponent had just 17 . Less than 24 hours later he now has 9,786 bur Natasha Maroni now has 14,166 . Perhaps the Conservative candidate will win , he is not on twitter at all .

    That's nothing, yesterday one of my tweets was re-tweeted/liked over 3,000 times.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,015

    Yes , mention of a town council by election in Crewe.
    Brian Silvester , UKIP candidate rather foolishly boasted yesterday that he had 9,737 followers on twitter and his Labour opponent had just 17 . Less than 24 hours later he now has 9,786 bur Natasha Maroni now has 14,166 . Perhaps the Conservative candidate will win , he is not on twitter at all .

    That's nothing, yesterday one of my tweets was re-tweeted/liked over 3,000 times.
    Re-tweeting your own tweet 3000 times doesn't count... ;)
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    DadgeDadge Posts: 2,038
    30k more civil servants? That means a minimum of £2 billion.

    I wonder how many of these civil servants will be from the EU?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,015
    Dadge said:

    30k more civil servants? That means a minimum of £2 billion.

    I wonder how many of these civil servants will be from the EU?

    Except Deloite admit the report was written without any input from/access to government sources.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Take me home, country roads...

    After Donald Trump’s election as president, Pamela Ramsey Taylor, director of the Clay County Development Corp., took to Facebook to comment on the upcoming shift from Obama to Melania Trump, reportedly writing: “It will be so refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady back in the White House. I’m tired of seeing a Ape in heels.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/11/14/ape-in-heels-w-va-officials-under-fire-after-comments-about-michelle-obama/?postshare=1241479225376765&tid=ss_tw

    Wow. I mean, wow.
    Even if it was not intended to be racially derogatory (which I doubt) it's still an awful comment to describe any woman as an "ape".
    Absolutely. The fact that Michelle Obama is classy, beautiful and dignified really does not come into it. In this country I think this would be prosecutable. A sick, sick individual.
    I wouldn't want it to be prosecutable, because it's good for people like Pamela Taylor to show themselves in their true colours. Such a comment says far more about her than anyone else could.
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    RobD said:

    Yes , mention of a town council by election in Crewe.
    Brian Silvester , UKIP candidate rather foolishly boasted yesterday that he had 9,737 followers on twitter and his Labour opponent had just 17 . Less than 24 hours later he now has 9,786 bur Natasha Maroni now has 14,166 . Perhaps the Conservative candidate will win , he is not on twitter at all .

    That's nothing, yesterday one of my tweets was re-tweeted/liked over 3,000 times.
    Re-tweeting your own tweet 3000 times doesn't count... ;)
    It really wasn't me. Having one of your tweets go through that is a killer for your phone's battery life.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,005

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off-topic: an interesting new theory 'solves' the dark matter problem of gravity. By saying that gravity is *not* a fundamental force.

    http://phys.org/news/2016-11-theory-gravity-dark.html

    If right, it may solve some of the problems facing physics. And probably create new ones at the same time ...

    Much as I like physics, more engineering ought to be the focus.

    Particularly on mahoosive rockets.

    Some research into the properties of oxygen and helium at low temperatures would be handy mind ;)
    Particularly when in close proximity to, and filling, composite-overwrapped pressure vessels, perchance? ;)

    I'm very sceptical that SpaceX can solve the problem by altering the loading sequence. That may well work, but what happens when they have to unload because of a launch delay, and then reload shortly afterwards? Temperature profiles will be all over the place.

    Much safer to put the COPVs outside the LO tank IMO, but that would involve a significant redesign.

    But what do I know? I'm not a rocket scientists. :(
    Stuff warms up when they delay a launch, doesn't chill down further - so not an issue I think. (Too warm is also bad but doesn't lead to RUD)
    I hope you're right! But if some things warm up a a slower rate than others, then you have a different temperature differential at the start of the refill. P'haps. I got confused just reading up on helium's behaviour when compressed and expanded ...

    Still, looks like they're going for a return-to-flight next month. Let's hope it goes without a bang.
    I hope I'm right !

    Not sure what Trump means for NASA or space, most people think Earth science is going to be utterly shafted - though republicans seem more keen on HSF than the DEMs.
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    If a victory is won by pandering to the basest instincts of the electorate, it's unsurprising when parts of that selfsame electorate feels able to express their basest instincts. We've seen it with Brexit and now we're seeing it with Donald Trump's victory. It's utterly predictable.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,015

    RobD said:

    Yes , mention of a town council by election in Crewe.
    Brian Silvester , UKIP candidate rather foolishly boasted yesterday that he had 9,737 followers on twitter and his Labour opponent had just 17 . Less than 24 hours later he now has 9,786 bur Natasha Maroni now has 14,166 . Perhaps the Conservative candidate will win , he is not on twitter at all .

    That's nothing, yesterday one of my tweets was re-tweeted/liked over 3,000 times.
    Re-tweeting your own tweet 3000 times doesn't count... ;)
    It really wasn't me. Having one of your tweets go through that is a killer for your phone's battery life.
    I remember seeing that video of someone with a million or so follower on instagram who posted an image, and the likes started rolling in immediately and very quickly on their phone.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    RobD said:

    Dadge said:

    30k more civil servants? That means a minimum of £2 billion.

    I wonder how many of these civil servants will be from the EU?

    Except Deloite admit the report was written without any input from/access to government sources.
    Has there been any reaction from the Times?
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    The stereotype checks out if you look at their mugshots. Professional soap dodgers.
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    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Yes , mention of a town council by election in Crewe.
    Brian Silvester , UKIP candidate rather foolishly boasted yesterday that he had 9,737 followers on twitter and his Labour opponent had just 17 . Less than 24 hours later he now has 9,786 bur Natasha Maroni now has 14,166 . Perhaps the Conservative candidate will win , he is not on twitter at all .

    That's nothing, yesterday one of my tweets was re-tweeted/liked over 3,000 times.
    Re-tweeting your own tweet 3000 times doesn't count... ;)
    It really wasn't me. Having one of your tweets go through that is a killer for your phone's battery life.
    I remember seeing that video of someone with a million or so follower on instagram who posted an image, and the likes started rolling in immediately and very quickly on their phone.
    My favourite thing like that was this Scottish Unionist on twitter, who was re-tweeted by J.K. Rowling, he went from having 100 notifications a year, to 100 notifications a minute.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,162
    RobD said:

    Dadge said:

    30k more civil servants? That means a minimum of £2 billion.

    I wonder how many of these civil servants will be from the EU?

    Except Deloite admit the report was written without any input from/access to government sources.
    No, they admit it's without any access to Number 10 and any input from government departments. The converse can't be ruled out. :)
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,015

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Yes , mention of a town council by election in Crewe.
    Brian Silvester , UKIP candidate rather foolishly boasted yesterday that he had 9,737 followers on twitter and his Labour opponent had just 17 . Less than 24 hours later he now has 9,786 bur Natasha Maroni now has 14,166 . Perhaps the Conservative candidate will win , he is not on twitter at all .

    That's nothing, yesterday one of my tweets was re-tweeted/liked over 3,000 times.
    Re-tweeting your own tweet 3000 times doesn't count... ;)
    It really wasn't me. Having one of your tweets go through that is a killer for your phone's battery life.
    I remember seeing that video of someone with a million or so follower on instagram who posted an image, and the likes started rolling in immediately and very quickly on their phone.
    My favourite thing like that was this Scottish Unionist on twitter, who was re-tweeted by J.K. Rowling, he went from having 100 notifications a year, to 100 notifications a minute.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGl796352RI
  • Options
    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,015

    RobD said:

    Dadge said:

    30k more civil servants? That means a minimum of £2 billion.

    I wonder how many of these civil servants will be from the EU?

    Except Deloite admit the report was written without any input from/access to government sources.
    No, they admit it's without any access to Number 10 and any input from government departments. The converse can't be ruled out. :)
    Seems unlikely given the Government's slapping down of Deloite.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    If a victory is won by pandering to the basest instincts of the electorate, it's unsurprising when parts of that selfsame electorate feels able to express their basest instincts. We've seen it with Brexit and now we're seeing it with Donald Trump's victory. It's utterly predictable.

    As is your sense of smug self-regard.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Yes , mention of a town council by election in Crewe.
    Brian Silvester , UKIP candidate rather foolishly boasted yesterday that he had 9,737 followers on twitter and his Labour opponent had just 17 . Less than 24 hours later he now has 9,786 bur Natasha Maroni now has 14,166 . Perhaps the Conservative candidate will win , he is not on twitter at all .

    That's nothing, yesterday one of my tweets was re-tweeted/liked over 3,000 times.
    Re-tweeting your own tweet 3000 times doesn't count... ;)
    It really wasn't me. Having one of your tweets go through that is a killer for your phone's battery life.
    I remember seeing that video of someone with a million or so follower on instagram who posted an image, and the likes started rolling in immediately and very quickly on their phone.
    My favourite thing like that was this Scottish Unionist on twitter, who was re-tweeted by J.K. Rowling, he went from having 100 notifications a year, to 100 notifications a minute.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGl796352RI
    That's what my phone was like yesterday.

    Thank heavens for the awesome battery life on the iPhone 7
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited November 2016
    Dadge said:

    30k more civil servants? That means a minimum of £2 billion.

    I wonder how many of these civil servants will be from the EU?

    Perhaps they could get them from the NHS by getting the NHS to join the 21st century? That would generate a few 'spares'.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,015

    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.

    Sounds like it was commissioned by themselves. Who else would commission a report that was intended for internal Deloite consumption?
  • Options

    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.

    The original Number 10 spin was it was a pitch for business.

    I'm not sure slagging off the CEO of the business you're pitching to was a good idea.
  • Options
    Sky making a humilating retreat from the Deloitte story. This incident demonstrates how Sky, BBC and others just swallow any story that assists their remain agenda.

    The British people deserve much better, by all means report against Brexit when they have researched and authenticated a story but also report pro Brexit stories with the same zeal
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.

    Hasn't it been reported that it was uncommissioned?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,015
    Scott_P said:
    Of course it has ben chaotic. Nothing was done to prepare for it ;)
  • Options
    LennonLennon Posts: 1,736

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Yes , mention of a town council by election in Crewe.
    Brian Silvester , UKIP candidate rather foolishly boasted yesterday that he had 9,737 followers on twitter and his Labour opponent had just 17 . Less than 24 hours later he now has 9,786 bur Natasha Maroni now has 14,166 . Perhaps the Conservative candidate will win , he is not on twitter at all .

    That's nothing, yesterday one of my tweets was re-tweeted/liked over 3,000 times.
    Re-tweeting your own tweet 3000 times doesn't count... ;)
    It really wasn't me. Having one of your tweets go through that is a killer for your phone's battery life.
    I remember seeing that video of someone with a million or so follower on instagram who posted an image, and the likes started rolling in immediately and very quickly on their phone.
    My favourite thing like that was this Scottish Unionist on twitter, who was re-tweeted by J.K. Rowling, he went from having 100 notifications a year, to 100 notifications a minute.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGl796352RI
    That's what my phone was like yesterday.

    Thank heavens for the awesome battery life on the iPhone 7
    Surprised that you still have push notifications turned on...
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited November 2016
    Merkel signals move on freedom of movement:

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-germany-movement-idUKKBN13A1O5?il=0

    "But on the finer detail of defining the free movement of people, she added: "I personally am of the view that we will have to discuss further with the (European) Commission when this freedom of movement applies from."

    Merkel said that if, for example, someone came to Germany from eastern Europe and worked only for a short time but acquired a life-long claim on welfare benefits, "then I see a question about which we must talk again."
  • Options

    I don't think there's any Brexit deal where we remain in some EU or European institutions. There's the customs union, of course, but that isn't the same as being part of the EU, and nor is it an institution. Even the EEA means quitting the ECJ. We will remain a member of the ECHR and Council of Europe (for the time being) no matter what.

    I think paying into the EU is different, as long as the government can demonstrate its for access, with a net benefit trading gain, and a net saving, and not a compulsory membership fee. As usual, voters will weight up the costs and benefits for themselves.

    And, for the record, I'm probably more of a hard Brexiteer than the latter, for what it's worth. I'd be satisfied with either. Just more satisfied with the former.

    This whole "a-ha! you Brexiteers can't agree amongst yourselves what you want!" has always been viewed as be some sort of killer argument by Remainers since Day 1, but it fails to take account that the no.1 objective of Brexiteers is to quit because we viewed remaining in the EU as a neverending escalator to closer harmonisation and integration.

    (And I'm perfectly realistic, thank you very much.)

    I forgot you speak for all Brexiteers. Many may disagree with your "no. 1 objective".

    And you would think you're being realistic. I'm far from sure you are. But hey, reasonable people can reasonably differ on such things. I meant no slight.
    I don't, but you felt you knew my mind. So I corrected you.

    I recognise you bottled voting Leave, but that doesn't make you right and me wrong.

    Like you said, reasonable people can differ.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Google backs UK with £1bn investment plan

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37988095

  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,162
    chestnut said:

    Merkel signals move on freedom of movement:

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-germany-movement-idUKKBN13A1O5?il=0

    "But on the finer detail of defining the free movement of people, she added: "I personally am of the view that we will have to discuss further with the (European) Commission when this freedom of movement applies from."

    Merkel said that if, for example, someone came to Germany from eastern Europe and worked only for a short time but acquired a life-long claim on welfare benefits, "then I see a question about which we must talk again."

    "Free movement applies to me in the sense that the employee himself earns the money he needs for himself and his family in the other member state," she said.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,162


    Google backs UK with £1bn investment plan

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37988095

    Perhaps Hillary's loss is our gain?
  • Options
    Lennon said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Yes , mention of a town council by election in Crewe.
    Brian Silvester , UKIP candidate rather foolishly boasted yesterday that he had 9,737 followers on twitter and his Labour opponent had just 17 . Less than 24 hours later he now has 9,786 bur Natasha Maroni now has 14,166 . Perhaps the Conservative candidate will win , he is not on twitter at all .

    That's nothing, yesterday one of my tweets was re-tweeted/liked over 3,000 times.
    Re-tweeting your own tweet 3000 times doesn't count... ;)
    It really wasn't me. Having one of your tweets go through that is a killer for your phone's battery life.
    I remember seeing that video of someone with a million or so follower on instagram who posted an image, and the likes started rolling in immediately and very quickly on their phone.
    My favourite thing like that was this Scottish Unionist on twitter, who was re-tweeted by J.K. Rowling, he went from having 100 notifications a year, to 100 notifications a minute.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGl796352RI
    That's what my phone was like yesterday.

    Thank heavens for the awesome battery life on the iPhone 7
    Surprised that you still have push notifications turned on...
    Normally I don't get that many so never been much of an issue.

    Most retweets/likes I've ever had was 800 odd on June 23rd this year
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Scott_P said:
    This is a defence? "We didn't check out our claimed source but we agreed with what it said so we didn't bother"
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005

    If a victory is won by pandering to the basest instincts of the electorate, it's unsurprising when parts of that selfsame electorate feels able to express their basest instincts. We've seen it with Brexit and now we're seeing it with Donald Trump's victory. It's utterly predictable.

    I'm afraid we don't live in Plato's Republic.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.

    Hasn't it been reported that it was uncommissioned?
    Deloittes themselves have acknowledged that.

    The more interesting question is who at Deloittes leaked it to the Times.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited November 2016

    "Free movement applies to me in the sense that the employee himself earns the money he needs for himself and his family in the other member state," she said.

    So, no access to the host country's welfare state. No help with rent, no child benefit, no tax credits etc.

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Yes , mention of a town council by election in Crewe.
    Brian Silvester , UKIP candidate rather foolishly boasted yesterday that he had 9,737 followers on twitter and his Labour opponent had just 17 . Less than 24 hours later he now has 9,786 bur Natasha Maroni now has 14,166 . Perhaps the Conservative candidate will win , he is not on twitter at all .

    That's nothing, yesterday one of my tweets was re-tweeted/liked over 3,000 times.
    Re-tweeting your own tweet 3000 times doesn't count... ;)
    It really wasn't me. Having one of your tweets go through that is a killer for your phone's battery life.
    I remember seeing that video of someone with a million or so follower on instagram who posted an image, and the likes started rolling in immediately and very quickly on their phone.
    My favourite thing like that was this Scottish Unionist on twitter, who was re-tweeted by J.K. Rowling, he went from having 100 notifications a year, to 100 notifications a minute.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGl796352RI
    That looks a bit like phone belonging to the sysadmin for the NHS's mail system yesterday. ;)

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/14/186m-needless-emails-nhs-wide-test-message-and-replies-to-all-crash-system

    It distinctly worries me that people dumb enough to blindly use 'reply-all' work in the health service. Mind you, Microsoft got hit by it yonks ago,
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Of course it has ben chaotic. Nothing was done to prepare for it ;)
    George and Dave eh? What a pair!
  • Options

    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.

    Hasn't it been reported that it was uncommissioned?
    Deloittes themselves have acknowledged that.

    The more interesting question is who at Deloittes leaked it to the Times.
    I'm fairly certain it was leaked to The Times by someone inside the Government.
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.

    Hasn't it been reported that it was uncommissioned?
    Deloittes themselves have acknowledged that.

    The more interesting question is who at Deloittes leaked it to the Times.
    Hopefully Deloitte will lose whatever contract they have like what happened with PA when they lost that memory stick.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    chestnut said:

    Merkel signals move on freedom of movement:

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-germany-movement-idUKKBN13A1O5?il=0

    "But on the finer detail of defining the free movement of people, she added: "I personally am of the view that we will have to discuss further with the (European) Commission when this freedom of movement applies from."

    Merkel said that if, for example, someone came to Germany from eastern Europe and worked only for a short time but acquired a life-long claim on welfare benefits, "then I see a question about which we must talk again."

    Oh she finally getting it? Worried about Le Pen.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Yes , mention of a town council by election in Crewe.
    Brian Silvester , UKIP candidate rather foolishly boasted yesterday that he had 9,737 followers on twitter and his Labour opponent had just 17 . Less than 24 hours later he now has 9,786 bur Natasha Maroni now has 14,166 . Perhaps the Conservative candidate will win , he is not on twitter at all .

    That's nothing, yesterday one of my tweets was re-tweeted/liked over 3,000 times.
    Re-tweeting your own tweet 3000 times doesn't count... ;)
    It really wasn't me. Having one of your tweets go through that is a killer for your phone's battery life.
    I remember seeing that video of someone with a million or so follower on instagram who posted an image, and the likes started rolling in immediately and very quickly on their phone.
    My favourite thing like that was this Scottish Unionist on twitter, who was re-tweeted by J.K. Rowling, he went from having 100 notifications a year, to 100 notifications a minute.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGl796352RI
    That looks a bit like phone belonging to the sysadmin for the NHS's mail system yesterday. ;)

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/14/186m-needless-emails-nhs-wide-test-message-and-replies-to-all-crash-system

    It distinctly worries me that people dumb enough to blindly use 'reply-all' work in the health service. Mind you, Microsoft got hit by it yonks ago,
    The people who use it probably reason that if they "talk" to enough people, someone, sometime, somewhere will listen
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    It distinctly worries me that people dumb enough to blindly use 'reply-all' work in the health service. Mind you, Microsoft got hit by it yonks ago,

    To be fair it is poor design that reply all is too easy to use, you ought to have to jump through hoops to use it.

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,416

    chestnut said:

    Merkel signals move on freedom of movement:

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-germany-movement-idUKKBN13A1O5?il=0

    "But on the finer detail of defining the free movement of people, she added: "I personally am of the view that we will have to discuss further with the (European) Commission when this freedom of movement applies from."

    Merkel said that if, for example, someone came to Germany from eastern Europe and worked only for a short time but acquired a life-long claim on welfare benefits, "then I see a question about which we must talk again."

    "Free movement applies to me in the sense that the employee himself earns the money he needs for himself and his family in the other member state," she said.
    Blimey if she had agreed that with Dave who knows where we would be now.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.

    Hasn't it been reported that it was uncommissioned?
    Deloittes themselves have acknowledged that.

    The more interesting question is who at Deloittes leaked it to the Times.
    I'm fairly certain it was leaked to The Times by someone inside the Government.
    You're being coy about the basis for even a fair certainty. Why?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,416


    Google backs UK with £1bn investment plan

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37988095

    Really good news for UK plc. Better get on with that airport expansion!
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    DavidL said:

    chestnut said:

    Merkel signals move on freedom of movement:

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-germany-movement-idUKKBN13A1O5?il=0

    "But on the finer detail of defining the free movement of people, she added: "I personally am of the view that we will have to discuss further with the (European) Commission when this freedom of movement applies from."

    Merkel said that if, for example, someone came to Germany from eastern Europe and worked only for a short time but acquired a life-long claim on welfare benefits, "then I see a question about which we must talk again."

    "Free movement applies to me in the sense that the employee himself earns the money he needs for himself and his family in the other member state," she said.
    Blimey if she had agreed that with Dave who knows where we would be now.
    Remaining
  • Options
    chestnut said:

    Merkel signals move on freedom of movement:

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-germany-movement-idUKKBN13A1O5?il=0

    "But on the finer detail of defining the free movement of people, she added: "I personally am of the view that we will have to discuss further with the (European) Commission when this freedom of movement applies from."

    Merkel said that if, for example, someone came to Germany from eastern Europe and worked only for a short time but acquired a life-long claim on welfare benefits, "then I see a question about which we must talk again."

    Bit late - just panic
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    If a victory is won by pandering to the basest instincts of the electorate, it's unsurprising when parts of that selfsame electorate feels able to express their basest instincts. We've seen it with Brexit and now we're seeing it with Donald Trump's victory. It's utterly predictable.

    I'm afraid we don't live in Plato's Republic.
    Oh but we do. Just a different Plato.
  • Options


    Google backs UK with £1bn investment plan

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37988095

    Perhaps Hillary's loss is our gain?

    He said open borders and free movement for skilled migrants were "absolutely" important to the success of the technology sector in the UK.
    It was Mr Pichai's first European broadcast interview since he became chief executive last year.
    Sources at the technology company also said if barriers were thrown up to skilled immigration following the vote to leave the European Union, some of Google's investment could be at risk.

    I reckon Google has been talking to HMG.


  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,416

    DavidL said:

    chestnut said:

    Merkel signals move on freedom of movement:

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-germany-movement-idUKKBN13A1O5?il=0

    "But on the finer detail of defining the free movement of people, she added: "I personally am of the view that we will have to discuss further with the (European) Commission when this freedom of movement applies from."

    Merkel said that if, for example, someone came to Germany from eastern Europe and worked only for a short time but acquired a life-long claim on welfare benefits, "then I see a question about which we must talk again."

    "Free movement applies to me in the sense that the employee himself earns the money he needs for himself and his family in the other member state," she said.
    Blimey if she had agreed that with Dave who knows where we would be now.
    Remaining
    I would say almost certainly.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,162

    DavidL said:

    chestnut said:

    Merkel signals move on freedom of movement:

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-germany-movement-idUKKBN13A1O5?il=0

    "But on the finer detail of defining the free movement of people, she added: "I personally am of the view that we will have to discuss further with the (European) Commission when this freedom of movement applies from."

    Merkel said that if, for example, someone came to Germany from eastern Europe and worked only for a short time but acquired a life-long claim on welfare benefits, "then I see a question about which we must talk again."

    "Free movement applies to me in the sense that the employee himself earns the money he needs for himself and his family in the other member state," she said.
    Blimey if she had agreed that with Dave who knows where we would be now.
    Remaining
    That is what we're doing via a more circuitous route.
  • Options

    I don't think there's any Brexit deal where we remain in some EU or European institutions. There's the customs union, of course, but that isn't the same as being part of the EU, and nor is it an institution. Even the EEA means quitting the ECJ. We will remain a member of the ECHR and Council of Europe (for the time being) no matter what.

    I think paying into the EU is different, as long as the government can demonstrate its for access, with a net benefit trading gain, and a net saving, and not a compulsory membership fee. As usual, voters will weight up the costs and benefits for themselves.

    And, for the record, I'm probably more of a hard Brexiteer than the latter, for what it's worth. I'd be satisfied with either. Just more satisfied with the former.

    This whole "a-ha! you Brexiteers can't agree amongst yourselves what you want!" has always been viewed as be some sort of killer argument by Remainers since Day 1, but it fails to take account that the no.1 objective of Brexiteers is to quit because we viewed remaining in the EU as a neverending escalator to closer harmonisation and integration.

    (And I'm perfectly realistic, thank you very much.)

    I forgot you speak for all Brexiteers. Many may disagree with your "no. 1 objective".

    And you would think you're being realistic. I'm far from sure you are. But hey, reasonable people can reasonably differ on such things. I meant no slight.
    I don't, but you felt you knew my mind. So I corrected you.

    I recognise you bottled voting Leave, but that doesn't make you right and me wrong.

    Like you said, reasonable people can differ.

    Not sure that accusing someone of "bottling" a vote for Leave is reasonable.

  • Options

    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.

    Hasn't it been reported that it was uncommissioned?
    Deloittes themselves have acknowledged that.

    The more interesting question is who at Deloittes leaked it to the Times.
    I'm fairly certain it was leaked to The Times by someone inside the Government.
    You're being coy about the basis for even a fair certainty. Why?
    Because some people will automatically think it was leaked by Osborne/Cameron or their associates because I said it was leaked by someone inside the Government.

    The memo does have the ring of authenticity of the various tensions within government.

    As I noted today, the Government haven't disputed the contents of the memo.
  • Options
    chestnut said:

    Merkel signals move on freedom of movement:

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-germany-movement-idUKKBN13A1O5?il=0

    "But on the finer detail of defining the free movement of people, she added: "I personally am of the view that we will have to discuss further with the (European) Commission when this freedom of movement applies from."

    Merkel said that if, for example, someone came to Germany from eastern Europe and worked only for a short time but acquired a life-long claim on welfare benefits, "then I see a question about which we must talk again."

    I imagine this isn't entirely unrelated to the new realpolitik regarding the election of Donald Trump.

    The calculation has changed. Slightly, but it's changed.

    The EU now needs British engagement on military and security matters. That outweighs its general petulance about free movement as a pillar of its theology.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,416

    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.

    Hasn't it been reported that it was uncommissioned?
    Deloittes themselves have acknowledged that.

    The more interesting question is who at Deloittes leaked it to the Times.
    I'm fairly certain it was leaked to The Times by someone inside the Government.
    You're being coy about the basis for even a fair certainty. Why?
    Because some people will automatically think it was leaked by Osborne/Cameron or their associates because I said it was leaked by someone inside the Government.

    The memo does have the ring of authenticity of the various tensions within government.

    As I noted today, the Government haven't disputed the contents of the memo.
    Grayling said the 30K figure was rubbish.
  • Options
    Mr. Royale, there were legitimate reasons to vote to Remain (though I feel these were eclipsed by the reasons to vote Leave). Must agree with Mr. Observer about the term 'bottled'.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Renzi poll position worsens in Italian referendum;

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-italy-referendum-polls-idUKKBN13A1BP?il=0
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,628
    edited November 2016
    DavidL said:

    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.

    Hasn't it been reported that it was uncommissioned?
    Deloittes themselves have acknowledged that.

    The more interesting question is who at Deloittes leaked it to the Times.
    I'm fairly certain it was leaked to The Times by someone inside the Government.
    You're being coy about the basis for even a fair certainty. Why?
    Because some people will automatically think it was leaked by Osborne/Cameron or their associates because I said it was leaked by someone inside the Government.

    The memo does have the ring of authenticity of the various tensions within government.

    As I noted today, the Government haven't disputed the contents of the memo.
    Grayling said the 30K figure was rubbish.
    That was the solutions part of the memo not the problems facing the Government part of the memo.
  • Options
    Not quite plugging (it's for a January anthology, but thought PB might like it) but I wrote this elsewhere:
    "It's going to be huge, people. So big, so good. Better than you could ever believe. Ratsy's [the publisher] a great guy, the best guy. He picks winners, people, he knows how to win. And we're going to win so big. This anthology has the best words.

    We're going to build an anthology, everyone. The best anthology you could imagine. And the readers are gonna pay for it."

    Pretty pleased, as some chaps you may actually have heard of (Adrian Tchaikovsky, for example) are also contributing.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Take me home, country roads...

    After Donald Trump’s election as president, Pamela Ramsey Taylor, director of the Clay County Development Corp., took to Facebook to comment on the upcoming shift from Obama to Melania Trump, reportedly writing: “It will be so refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady back in the White House. I’m tired of seeing a Ape in heels.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/11/14/ape-in-heels-w-va-officials-under-fire-after-comments-about-michelle-obama/?postshare=1241479225376765&tid=ss_tw

    Wow. I mean, wow.
    Even if it was not intended to be racially derogatory (which I doubt) it's still an awful comment to describe any woman as an "ape".
    Absolutely. The fact that Michelle Obama is classy, beautiful and dignified really does not come into it. In this country I think this would be prosecutable. A sick, sick individual.
    I wouldn't want it to be prosecutable, because it's good for people like Pamela Taylor to show themselves in their true colours. Such a comment says far more about her than anyone else could.
    From what I could pick up, I thought Michelle Obama had done some good work for women's rights and education. Ad hominem or bitchy comments should be beneath opponents. Regrettably we are getting a lot from the Democrats because that is what they do and from the Republicans because it is payback time.
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    MP_SE said:

    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.

    Hasn't it been reported that it was uncommissioned?
    Deloittes themselves have acknowledged that.

    The more interesting question is who at Deloittes leaked it to the Times.
    Hopefully Deloitte will lose whatever contract they have like what happened with PA when they lost that memory stick.
    So competitive tendering is now a thing of the past?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    DavidL said:

    The question who did commission the Deloitte report is obvious and glaring. No doubt we will find out in due course.

    Hasn't it been reported that it was uncommissioned?
    Deloittes themselves have acknowledged that.

    The more interesting question is who at Deloittes leaked it to the Times.
    I'm fairly certain it was leaked to The Times by someone inside the Government.
    You're being coy about the basis for even a fair certainty. Why?
    Because some people will automatically think it was leaked by Osborne/Cameron or their associates because I said it was leaked by someone inside the Government.

    The memo does have the ring of authenticity of the various tensions within government.

    As I noted today, the Government haven't disputed the contents of the memo.
    Grayling said the 30K figure was rubbish.
    30k sounds awfully like a figure intended to win them business - you could hire 30k permanent civil servants and pay them loads of money and pension rights, or you could get us to do it on a consultancy basis for half the cost of recruiting and paying those 30k...
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