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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s bumper polling night – all the main online firms

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    edited July 2013

    Mr. kle4, really? As in total conquest?

    The Normans are the only ones who spring to mind. [Wasn't William of Orange invited and welcomed?]

    Norman Davis in one of his books counts William of Orange as a conqueror, but I'd rule him out as well. I was thinking of Knut - I don't know how he took control exactly, but he his territories across the North sea make him a foreign oppressor on the English I'd say (though he may have been a very decent and positive influence for all I know)
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,995
    Grandiose said:

    RobD said:

    Wasn't the Armada significantly hampered by the weather? Clearly God is the greatest Englishman.

    The Amarda was hampered by a lot of things. But I hardly think the British weather would be considered so unusual as to let the Spanish off.
    I think I'll chalk it down to divine intervention ;)
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,745
    William of Orange: First King to own a mobile phone?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Rentool, nice to see you on. And Harald Bluetooth got there first.

    Mr. kle4, ah, Cnut. Silly me, forgetting him.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Surely Llywelyn the Great is the greatest Welshman given that he ruled Wales for 40 years.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    David Cameron told to sack strategy chief over link to tobacco giants

    Lynton Crosby must go, urges former Lib Dem health minister, as cross-party anger grows over U-turn on cigarettes

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/13/david-cameron-lynton-crosby-tobacco?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,468
    kle4 said:

    Mr. kle4, really? As in total conquest?

    The Normans are the only ones who spring to mind. [Wasn't William of Orange invited and welcomed?]

    Norman Davis in one of his books counts William of Orange as a conqueror, but I'd rule him out as well. I was thinking of Knut - I don't know how he took control exactly, but he his territories across the North sea make him a foreign oppressor on the English I'd say (though he may have been a very decent and positive influence for all I know)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_revolution

    Wiki also call it an "invasion". There were a few very minor skirmishes in England but the harder fighting was in Scotland and harder still in Ireland (the effects still with us as we saw last night!).
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Survation poll coming up
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Survation for Mail on Sunday has:-
    LAB 36
    CON 28
    LD 9
    UKIP 20
    There's a methodology change so compairsons with previous polls less valid
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,468
    kle4 said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    kle4 said:

    but what the public perception of someone is, including my own perception, probably bears little reference to the reality


    It's almost like some kind of glorified popularity contest isn't it? Good luck changing that during an election.
    Oh no chance of that. Gove will need to be kept out of site, and if his reforms do prove to have worked, his toxicity might reverse then, but even so is not guaranteed, And that's if they are an improvement.

    Michael Gove earlier in his televisual career :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2ITuIMYfz8
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,995
    edited July 2013

    Survation for Mail on Sunday has:-
    LAB 36
    CON 28
    LD 9
    UKIP 20
    There's a methodology change so compairsons with previous polls less valid

    CON +5, LD -1, UKIP -2, by my reckoning, with the caveat of the methodology change.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Martin McKee ‏@martinmckee 11m

    Cameron on back foot over cave in to #BigTobacco. MPs of all parties on attack #Crosbygate http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/13/david-cameron-lynton-crosby-tobacco
    Another day, another master strategy. :)
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    kle4 said:

    I'm continually amazed at how low the LD figures drop. Sure, they will likely get much more in an actual election, but you'd think they'd hit the floor eventually, and they barely seem to pick up in the polls consistently even when they get out of the news.

    The funny thing about the Lib Dems is that their core vote is absolutely miniscule. In Scotland, I would guesstimate that the respective core votes are approximately:

    Labour 30%
    SNP 20%
    Con 15%
    LD 5%

    Bearing that in mind, it just emphasises how well Charlie Kennedy managed during his time as leader. He effectively managed to attract 4 times more voters to the SLDs than their core vote. Surely some kind of record?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,611

    William of Orange: First King to own a mobile phone?

    Sandy, I've missed you, it has been ages since we mocked Middlesbrough.

    We should rectify this.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061

    kle4 said:

    Mr. kle4, really? As in total conquest?

    The Normans are the only ones who spring to mind. [Wasn't William of Orange invited and welcomed?]

    Norman Davis in one of his books counts William of Orange as a conqueror, but I'd rule him out as well. I was thinking of Knut - I don't know how he took control exactly, but he his territories across the North sea make him a foreign oppressor on the English I'd say (though he may have been a very decent and positive influence for all I know)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_revolution

    Wiki also call it an "invasion". There were a few very minor skirmishes in England but the harder fighting was in Scotland and harder still in Ireland (the effects still with us as we saw last night!).
    I'll concede that theere was plenty of fighting, but since Parliament was essentially declaring itself sovereign (or having the right to decide who was in effect) and have sat permanently ever since and so were the ones in charge (even if the monarchy retained power for some time thereafter) and their side won the war, their choice for king can not in my view be seen as the conqueror of the realm, as there was continuity of power.

    He was invited by those who ruled the realm thereafter. Ok, he had to use his forces to crush dissent, but it's not the same as outright conquest I think. Semantic distinctions.
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    tim said:

    Carola said:

    kle4 said:

    Gove gets very bad press and his name is poison among a significant amount of the education establishment (though not universally), so it figures he would be rated so badly. Personally I like that he at least seems to have some idea of how to achieve things and make an impact. Hopefully that impact will prove positive overall.

    I'm continually amazed at how low the LD figures drop. Sure, they will likely get much more in an actual election, but you'd think they'd hit the floor eventually, and they barely seem to pick up in the polls consistently even when they get out of the news.

    Gove gets a lot of positive media coverage.

    Many teachers are on side - despite the constant slagging off he dishes out - when it comes to rigour and a move away from skills to knowledge. We're still waiting for those promises re giving us some power back in the classroom... instead he's giving it to managers who, for the most part in my experience, are the substantial chunk of the problem.

    Most people aren't thick enough to assume that all teachers are like those who go to union conferences or that they support all the union leader guff (or what gets reported anyway).

    Most of the relevant polling, as I recall, show that teachers are trusted and that parents with school-age children are positive about education (stand to be corrected on that as I can't be bothered to source...).

    I suspect the underlying issue is that most people aren't thick enough, also, not to realise that the long game is to flog education off.

    Gove is a centraliser using localist language.
    End of story really, there's little more to say about him the rhetoric inspires, the practice disappoints.

    But he's the only Messiah the Tories have left since IDS' big flagship got launched in Ashton under Lyme and will take three years to reach Stalybridge.
    'Gove is a centraliser using localist language.'

    Indeed. And there's more on that to come out before long.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,611
    I hope he signs up Irvine Welsh

    Some of Scotland's finest writers are to be asked by the SNP to apply a dash of literary magic to its much-anticipated white paper on independence in November. Senior party figures have already put the novelist William McIlvanney at the top of their list.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/13/alex-salmond-white-paper-william-mcilvanney
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061

    kle4 said:

    I'm continually amazed at how low the LD figures drop. Sure, they will likely get much more in an actual election, but you'd think they'd hit the floor eventually, and they barely seem to pick up in the polls consistently even when they get out of the news.

    The funny thing about the Lib Dems is that their core vote is absolutely miniscule. In Scotland, I would guesstimate that the respective core votes are approximately:

    Labour 30%
    SNP 20%
    Con 15%
    LD 5%

    Bearing that in mind, it just emphasises how well Charlie Kennedy managed during his time as leader. He effectively managed to attract 4 times more voters to the SLDs than their core vote. Surely some kind of record?
    Very impressive, although of course not all the attracting of those voters was down to his leadership, as the precipitous drop is more to do with a current circumstance which he never had to confront or suffer consequences for.
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    tim said:

    So we've learned that there was no bounce from Cameron's trade union ranting, and we've learned that Michael Gove is utterly toxic.

    Is any of that really news?
    Surely it's just proof of the PB Golden Rule

    The PB Tories are always wrong, the PB Tories never learn.

    And we learned that the smart punters got on Theresa May last year.
    Again, not really news.

    (Carola gets a hat tip on that front, first commenter to spot it.
    Anywhere)

    I had the advantage of being a woman ;)
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    Some of Scotland's finest writers are to be asked by the SNP to apply a dash of literary magic to its much-anticipated white paper on independence

    Do Better Together want SeanT's phone number?
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    MikeK said:

    A very interesting discussion on dissapearing languages.

    It's hardly disappearing but this is a nice quote. :)
    Joshua Erazo ‏@RabbittMadke 11h

    The Mandarin language is so delicious you can use it to flavor chicken.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Lynton Crosby’s “Barnacles Off The Boat” Strategy Needed To Win Back Tory C2DE Voters.

    Conservative Strategist Lynton Crosby’s “Get The Barnacles Off The Boat” Strategy Needed To Win Back C2DE Voters – The SEG Cross-Breaks Tell The Story

    http://survation.com/2013/07/lynton-crosbys-barnacles/
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I agree that Gove is toxic outside the party. From what I see though he is quite popular within, which is what matters for a leadership bid.

    He has a clear policy direction and is articulate and unafraid of expounding it, even if this draws a lot of opposition from his political enemies. He has awhiff of Thatcher about him.

    I can see him as next leader.

    tim said:

    So we've learned that there was no bounce from Cameron's union ranting, and we've learned that Michael Gove is utterly toxic.

    Is any of that really news?
    Surely it's just proof of the PB Golden Rule

    The PB Tories are always wrong, the PB Tories never learn.

    And we learned that the smart punters got on Theresa May last year.
    Agin, not really news.

    It has been obvious to anybody with half a brain from Day 1 of Michael Gove's political career that he is utterly toxic. How on earth he managed to rise to a cabinet role is an utter mystery. Are there really no better MPs in the entire parliamentary Tory and Liberal parties?
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I'm continually amazed at how low the LD figures drop. Sure, they will likely get much more in an actual election, but you'd think they'd hit the floor eventually, and they barely seem to pick up in the polls consistently even when they get out of the news.

    The funny thing about the Lib Dems is that their core vote is absolutely miniscule. In Scotland, I would guesstimate that the respective core votes are approximately:

    Labour 30%
    SNP 20%
    Con 15%
    LD 5%

    Bearing that in mind, it just emphasises how well Charlie Kennedy managed during his time as leader. He effectively managed to attract 4 times more voters to the SLDs than their core vote. Surely some kind of record?
    Very impressive, although of course not all the attracting of those voters was down to his leadership, as the precipitous drop is more to do with a current circumstance which he never had to confront or suffer consequences for.
    But Charlie Kennedy would never have been as daft as Nick Clegg in the first place.

    Even through the haze of alcohol he had ten times better political judgement than wally Clegg.
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    RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258
    edited July 2013
    Remarkably similar polls. Figures all virtually identical which is amazing.

    Amused that Mike says UKIP are just 'doing ok' on 18/19 and 20 %. Would've thought that was pretty stonking for them.

    LD's sinking through the floor.

    No sign of Labour suffering from union malarkey.

    Cons in dire straits.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    tim said:

    Carola said:

    tim said:

    So we've learned that there was no bounce from Cameron's trade union ranting, and we've learned that Michael Gove is utterly toxic.

    Is any of that really news?
    Surely it's just proof of the PB Golden Rule

    The PB Tories are always wrong, the PB Tories never learn.

    And we learned that the smart punters got on Theresa May last year.
    Again, not really news.

    (Carola gets a hat tip on that front, first commenter to spot it.
    Anywhere)

    I had the advantage of being a woman ;)
    And not being a PB Tory.

    Tim,I don't know who are the pb tories you post about,can you point them out.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    I know, we're all fed up hearing about Neil banging on about it as usual but once more for those who missed it.
    Sunny Hundal ‏@sunny_hundal

    Green party leader @natalieben challenges "toxic rhetoric" on immigration in key speech http://liberalconspiracy.org/?p=38008
    :)
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    edited July 2013
    Neil said:


    Some of Scotland's finest writers are to be asked by the SNP to apply a dash of literary magic to its much-anticipated white paper on independence

    Do Better Together want SeanT's phone number?
    While a fine line in entertainingly vicious invectives might be useful at times, I think the Better Together campaign should try and focus on a positive message at this time perhaps.

    Night all.

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    OGH, Bradley deserved his knighthood for the Raffle ticket gag on the Champs Elysée.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,299


    Though Horatio Nelson is a worthy contender, and he overcame the disadvantage of being a native of Norfolk.

    If you're going to get your arm blown off, you'd want a bit of digital over-compensation on the remaining one.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,051

    I agree that Gove is toxic outside the party. From what I see though he is quite popular within, which is what matters for a leadership bid.

    He has a clear policy direction and is articulate and unafraid of expounding it, even if this draws a lot of opposition from his political enemies. He has awhiff of Thatcher about him.

    I can see him as next leader.

    tim said:

    So we've learned that there was no bounce from Cameron's union ranting, and we've learned that Michael Gove is utterly toxic.

    Is any of that really news?
    Surely it's just proof of the PB Golden Rule

    The PB Tories are always wrong, the PB Tories never learn.

    And we learned that the smart punters got on Theresa May last year.
    Agin, not really news.

    It has been obvious to anybody with half a brain from Day 1 of Michael Gove's political career that he is utterly toxic. How on earth he managed to rise to a cabinet role is an utter mystery. Are there really no better MPs in the entire parliamentary Tory and Liberal parties?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,611
    Neil said:


    Some of Scotland's finest writers are to be asked by the SNP to apply a dash of literary magic to its much-anticipated white paper on independence


    Do Better Together want SeanT's phone number?
    After what SeanT has said about Alistair Darling in the past, I can't imagine he'd be Better Together's first choice.

    Though I'd like to see him write a piece about How the prospect of Scotland voting to remain inside the UK gives him the horn.

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    edited July 2013

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I'm continually amazed at how low the LD figures drop. Sure, they will likely get much more in an actual election, but you'd think they'd hit the floor eventually, and they barely seem to pick up in the polls consistently even when they get out of the news.

    The funny thing about the Lib Dems is that their core vote is absolutely miniscule. In Scotland, I would guesstimate that the respective core votes are approximately:

    Labour 30%
    SNP 20%
    Con 15%
    LD 5%

    Bearing that in mind, it just emphasises how well Charlie Kennedy managed during his time as leader. He effectively managed to attract 4 times more voters to the SLDs than their core vote. Surely some kind of record?
    Very impressive, although of course not all the attracting of those voters was down to his leadership, as the precipitous drop is more to do with a current circumstance which he never had to confront or suffer consequences for.
    But Charlie Kennedy would never have been as daft as Nick Clegg in the first place.

    Even through the haze of alcohol he had ten times better political judgement than wally Clegg.
    Probably. But even so, not all of Clegg's and LD's problems are of their own making. Just most of them.

    Depressing thought before bed and a futile attempt to sleep in the heat: Why is Northern Ireland* so shit?

    correction from Island to Ireland. I've never been to North Island, it's probably nice.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Cameron faces calls from senior Liberal Democrats to sack his controversial election strategist Lynton Crosby over his links with the tobacco industry, as the coalition descended into open warfare over public health policy.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/13/david-cameron-lynton-crosby-tobacco
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Miss DiCanio, cheers for posting that link. I don't listen to much radio, but that was very interesting.

    Anyway, time to try and find somewhere cooler. Night all.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,995
    Must say that picture looks a tad contrived.
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    RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258
    edited July 2013
    Editing block quotes isn't easy on here is it?
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    edited July 2013

    I agree that Gove is toxic outside the party. From what I see though he is quite popular within, which is what matters for a leadership bid.

    He has a clear policy direction and is articulate and unafraid of expounding it, even if this draws a lot of opposition from his political enemies. He has awhiff of Thatcher about him.

    I can see him as next leader.

    tim said:

    So we've learned that there was no bounce from Cameron's union ranting, and we've learned that Michael Gove is utterly toxic.

    Is any of that really news?
    Surely it's just proof of the PB Golden Rule

    The PB Tories are always wrong, the PB Tories never learn.

    And we learned that the smart punters got on Theresa May last year.
    Agin, not really news.

    It has been obvious to anybody with half a brain from Day 1 of Michael Gove's political career that he is utterly toxic. How on earth he managed to rise to a cabinet role is an utter mystery. Are there really no better MPs in the entire parliamentary Tory and Liberal parties?
    I hope that you are right. It would precipitate a Tory collapse of Canadian proportions.

    But Gove is 10/1 to be next Con Leader, so nobody is holding their breath.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,468
    edited July 2013
    test
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited July 2013
    York City..

    tim could have written that, "open warfare" is a ludicrous overstatement of the facts. Is the Guardian morphing into the Daily Mail to try and halt its flagging sales.

    Cricket is far more interesting. The polls at this time are irrelevant.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,051
    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    b

    Post of the day! :)

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,995
    edited July 2013
    Mick_Pork said:

    b

    Post of the day! :)

    Probably hit post too soon. I've done that a few times before, quite embarrassing. ;)
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,025
    UKIP not fading away as their detractors had hoped.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    RobD said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    b

    Post of the day! :)

    Probably hit post too soon. I've done that a few times before, quite embarrassing. ;)

    Either that or the warm weather had brought on a fearsome bee attack and that was all poor Sunnill had time to post. ;)
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    Oliver_PBOliver_PB Posts: 397
    edited July 2013
    Late to the party, but I prefer Labour's leadership election structure to the other major parties. It provides a balance between different groups of people that need to be represented by a Labour leader (ordinary working people, Labour members, Labour MPs) without overrepresenting any of them.

    I don't think there's any ideal way to conduct a leadership election. Party membership is dwindling, MPs deciding amongst themselves seems wrong, and completely open primaries seem ripe for abuse.

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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,468
    LDs sub-10% in three of tonight's polls so far?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,025
    Survation:

    All: LAB 36% CON 28% UKIP 20% LD 9%

    AB: LAB 38% CON 33% UKIP 11% LD 11%
    C1: LAB 33% CON 30% UKIP 19% LD 9%
    C2: LAB 32% CON 29% UKIP 27% LD 7%
    DE: LAB 42% CON 17% UKIP 25% LD 7%
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Indeed Andy.

    That's the big message from tonight's polling.
    Andy_JS said:

    UKIP not fading away as their detractors had hoped.

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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,468
    RobD said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    b

    Post of the day! :)

    Probably hit post too soon. I've done that a few times before, quite embarrassing. ;)
    No the answer is a little more "Innocent" than that - I replied to one of tim's posts that's seemed to have been moderated into the ether! Then I hurriedly edited by replacing my text with "b" (and later "test") :)
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,995
    Mick_Pork said:



    Either that or the warm weather had brought on a fearsome bee attack and that was all poor Sunnill had time to post. ;)

    LOL. Thanks for that :)
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Opinium poll for the Observer

    Coailition 33%

    Labour 38 %

    Before you tel me Sunil.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,468
    Yorkcity said:

    Opinium poll for the Observer

    Coailition 33%

    Labour 38 %

    Before you tel me Sunil.

    Note: The subject Yorkcity responds to the stimulus as predicted!
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Indeed Andy.

    That's the big message from tonight's polling.

    Andy_JS said:

    UKIP not fading away as their detractors had hoped.

    But OGH still hopes that YOuGov will do the trick for him:

    @MSmithsonPB
    Polls still to come tonight - the regular YouGov for S Times and Survation.
    I bet YouGov has the bigger CON share & smaller UKIP one
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Amongst 2010 CON voters in ComRes poll just 28% say Gove's doing well against 31% saying badly
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited July 2013
    3 politicians who should be worried more than gove with tonights poll ratings on politicians - miliband,osborne and balls
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,468

    3 politicians who should be worried more than gove with tonights poll ratings on politicians - miliband,osborne and balls

    And Clegg?
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited July 2013
    I don't hope for that at all.

    I've got a three figure bet on at 8/1 that UKIP will get more than one seat at GE2015.

    My best general election outcome is for UKIP to get 2 or more seats and for there to be no overall majority but no coaition. I've got 12/1 on that

    I'll be several thousand pounds up if those two things happen.
    MikeK said:

    Indeed Andy.

    That's the big message from tonight's polling.

    Andy_JS said:

    UKIP not fading away as their detractors had hoped.

    But OGH still hopes that YOuGov will do the trick for him:

    @MSmithsonPB
    Polls still to come tonight - the regular YouGov for S Times and Survation.
    I bet YouGov has the bigger CON share & smaller UKIP one
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited July 2013

    3 politicians who should be worried more than gove with tonights poll ratings on politicians - miliband,osborne and balls

    And Clegg?
    I never count them sunil ;-) (lib dems)

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I get Gove too. He has a clarity of thought and ideology that is rare in modern politics. I may not agree with it, but it is clear what you get when he is in power.

    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think. Gove knows his market.

    I am not saying that he would be a better leader, but all parties have long track records of apoointing people that are popular with their members and less popular with wider voters.

    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    SquareRoot

    It does seem overblown.

    The Guardian is on a guilt trip ever since the GE of 2010.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,025
    edited July 2013
    The Survation figures seem to show that Labour are most popular with the richest and poorest. Just what you'd expect with a Culture Wars scenario.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Alex Salmond: 'independence will come on a tide of rising expectations'

    Scotland's first minister tells Kevin McKenna about the social ties that will always bind the countries of the British Isles – and that saltire he waved at Wimbledon

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/13/alexsalmond-scottish-independence?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It is popularity with conservative members, not conservative voters that will decide the next leader.

    tim said:

    Amongst 2010 CON voters in ComRes poll just 28% say Gove's doing well against 31% saying badly


    Among LD's -44.

    Killer polling for the Messiah.
  • Options
    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Andy_JS said:

    Survation:

    All: LAB 36% CON 28% UKIP 20% LD 9%

    AB: LAB 38% CON 33% UKIP 11% LD 11%
    C1: LAB 33% CON 30% UKIP 19% LD 9%
    C2: LAB 32% CON 29% UKIP 27% LD 7%
    DE: LAB 42% CON 17% UKIP 25% LD 7%

    combined lib/lab vs con/ukip

    AB: 49 vs 44
    C1: 42 vs 49
    C2: 39 vs 52
    DE: 49 vs 42
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,025
    If UKIP have to choose between a "get one or two seats" strategy and a "get the most votes" strategy, I think they ought to opt for the latter.

    The party thrives on a feeling of annoyance and irritation, and getting 20% and no seats would be the perfect way to keep that going.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited July 2013
    Roger and tim don't like May. They simply support her for 'next leader' as a means of undermining the Conservative party and its current leadership.

    The problem with promoting May for leader is that it will never happen. Tories are like overgrown schoolchildren. The prospect of May as leader is as inviting to a child as being sent to stay with a maiden aunt for their summer holidays.

    The child would undoubtedly be safe but the holiday would go down as the most boring endured in a lifetime.



    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think.


    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited July 2013
    The Tories in recent times have got a record of choosing duds - Hague and IDS being two examples.

    How the party ended up with IDS rather than Portillo is one of the great mysteries of modern politics. If he'd have got it in 2001 I think that the Tories might have won in 2005.

    I get Gove too. He has a clarity of thought and ideology that is rare in modern politics. I may not agree with it, but it is clear what you get when he is in power.

    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think. Gove knows his market.

    I am not saying that he would be a better leader, but all parties have long track records of apoointing people that are popular with their members and less popular with wider voters.



    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,997
    Andy_JS said:

    The Survation figures seem to show that Labour are most popular with the richest and poorest. Just what you'd expect with a Culture Wars scenario.

    Yes. The lower-middle and upper-working classes are pretty right wing. Thatcher and Tebbit realised this. Cameron and Osborne had no interest in them.

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,611

    The Tories in recent times have got a record of choosing duds - Hague and IDS being two examples.

    How the party ended up with IDS rather than Portillo is one of the great mysteries of modern politics. If he'd have got it in 2001 I think that the Tories migh habe won in 2005.

    I get Gove too. He has a clarity of thought and ideology that is rare in modern politics. I may not agree with it, but it is clear what you get when he is in power.

    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think. Gove knows his market.

    I am not saying that he would be a better leader, but all parties have long track records of apoointing people that are popular with their members and less popular with wider voters.



    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

    The great mystery of 2001 was that we choose IDS ahead of Ken Clarke, which IMHO was the greatest mistake in British politics since I've been following politics.

    Ken Clarke would/did have opposed the Iraq War, which may have brought Blair down in 2003
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Andy_JS said:

    The Survation figures seem to show that Labour are most popular with the richest and poorest. Just what you'd expect with a Culture Wars scenario.

    I don't think AB is really "rich" anymore. IIRC, it's quite heavily weighted towards public sector following the latest set of redefinitions.

    A: Higher managerial, administrative or professional
    B: Intermediate managerial, administrative or professional

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NRS_social_grade
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,611


    Though Horatio Nelson is a worthy contender, and he overcame the disadvantage of being a native of Norfolk.

    If you're going to get your arm blown off, you'd want a bit of digital over-compensation on the remaining one.
    Indeed, and Nelson brought a smile to all England cricket fans today.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I agree but but it is not just the Tories. Who picked Foot over Healey? Brown over anyone? Ed over David? Or Campbell over Kennedy? Or who came very close to Huhne as leader?

    Activists do not often choose well!

    The Tories in recent times have got a record of choosing duds - Hague and IDS being two examples.

    How the party ended up with IDS rather than Portillo is one of the great mysteries of modern politics. If he'd have got it in 2001 I think that the Tories might have won in 2005.

    I get Gove too. He has a clarity of thought and ideology that is rare in modern politics. I may not agree with it, but it is clear what you get when he is in power.

    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think. Gove knows his market.

    I am not saying that he would be a better leader, but all parties have long track records of apoointing people that are popular with their members and less popular with wider voters.



    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Who do you want as Dave's successor?
    AveryLP said:

    Roger and tim don't like May. They simply support her for 'next leader' as a means of undermining the Conservative party and its current leadership.

    The problem with promoting May for leader is that it will never happen. Tories are like overgrown schoolchildren. The prospect of May as leader is as inviting to a child as being sent to stay with a maiden aunt for their summer holidays.

    The child would undoubtedly be safe but the holiday would go down as the most boring endured in a lifetime.



    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think.


    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,611
    Re the Theresa May approval rating, I'm assuming that's a boost from sending Abu Qatada to Jordan?
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Danny Alexander.

    Who do you want as Dave's successor?

    AveryLP said:

    Roger and tim don't like May. They simply support her for 'next leader' as a means of undermining the Conservative party and its current leadership.

    The problem with promoting May for leader is that it will never happen. Tories are like overgrown schoolchildren. The prospect of May as leader is as inviting to a child as being sent to stay with a maiden aunt for their summer holidays.

    The child would undoubtedly be safe but the holiday would go down as the most boring endured in a lifetime.



    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think.


    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MrJones said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Survation:

    All: LAB 36% CON 28% UKIP 20% LD 9%

    AB: LAB 38% CON 33% UKIP 11% LD 11%
    C1: LAB 33% CON 30% UKIP 19% LD 9%
    C2: LAB 32% CON 29% UKIP 27% LD 7%
    DE: LAB 42% CON 17% UKIP 25% LD 7%

    combined lib/lab vs con/ukip

    AB: 49 vs 44
    C1: 42 vs 49
    C2: 39 vs 52
    DE: 49 vs 42
    UKIP hurting the Tories badly !
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Oliver_PB said:

    Late to the party, but I prefer Labour's leadership election structure to the other major parties. It provides a balance between different groups of people that need to be represented by a Labour leader (ordinary working people, Labour members, Labour MPs) without overrepresenting any of them.

    I don't think there's any ideal way to conduct a leadership election. Party membership is dwindling, MPs deciding amongst themselves seems wrong, and completely open primaries seem ripe for abuse.

    It might provide balance but it is very slow in a crisis.

    When John Smith died Labour were in opposition and 3 years away from an election.

    However in a fast changing environment you would need to be like the Australian Labor Party if need be,so close to an election.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,025
    Hague might have been a good choice as leader in the past few years or so. The mistake was choosing him as leader in 1997 as a geeky-looking 36 year-old.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,611
    I think Andrew Rawnsley is channelling me

    The numbers that add up to trouble for all political parties

    Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems must reinvent themselves as mass-membership organisations

    Star Wars: more popular than the Tories

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/13/political-party-membership-coalition-labour
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Except it seems very unlikely that he will be eligible, standing in line with his UB40 in 2015.

    Less than 10% for the LibDems looks pretty grim.
    AveryLP said:

    Danny Alexander.

    Who do you want as Dave's successor?

    AveryLP said:

    Roger and tim don't like May. They simply support her for 'next leader' as a means of undermining the Conservative party and its current leadership.

    The problem with promoting May for leader is that it will never happen. Tories are like overgrown schoolchildren. The prospect of May as leader is as inviting to a child as being sent to stay with a maiden aunt for their summer holidays.

    The child would undoubtedly be safe but the holiday would go down as the most boring endured in a lifetime.



    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think.


    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    That is a most unpleasant photo-op.

    Saatchi is not a gentleman.

  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited July 2013
    Seriously.

    There is no one in the Cabinet whom I would prefer as leader. Instinctively I prefer Hague - and he is the obvious 'under the bus' successor - but I see why it would not be right to plan for Hague to replace Cameron in the ordinary course of succession.

    My hope is that Cameron serves through to say 2022 and a 2010 intake candidate will have risen to succeed him. Too early to say whom as we need to see the candidates in the 2015-2010 cabinet.
    AveryLP said:

    Danny Alexander.

    Who do you want as Dave's successor?

    AveryLP said:

    Roger and tim don't like May. They simply support her for 'next leader' as a means of undermining the Conservative party and its current leadership.

    The problem with promoting May for leader is that it will never happen. Tories are like overgrown schoolchildren. The prospect of May as leader is as inviting to a child as being sent to stay with a maiden aunt for their summer holidays.

    The child would undoubtedly be safe but the holiday would go down as the most boring endured in a lifetime.



    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think.


    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Fox, Alexander will hold onto his seat at the next GE.

    Except it seems very unlikely that he will be eligible, standing in line with his UB40 in 2015.

    Less than 10% for the LibDems looks pretty grim.

    AveryLP said:

    Danny Alexander.

    Who do you want as Dave's successor?

    AveryLP said:

    Roger and tim don't like May. They simply support her for 'next leader' as a means of undermining the Conservative party and its current leadership.

    The problem with promoting May for leader is that it will never happen. Tories are like overgrown schoolchildren. The prospect of May as leader is as inviting to a child as being sent to stay with a maiden aunt for their summer holidays.

    The child would undoubtedly be safe but the holiday would go down as the most boring endured in a lifetime.



    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think.


    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,078

    The Tories in recent times have got a record of choosing duds - Hague and IDS being two examples.

    How the party ended up with IDS rather than Portillo is one of the great mysteries of modern politics. If he'd have got it in 2001 I think that the Tories migh habe won in 2005.

    I get Gove too. He has a clarity of thought and ideology that is rare in modern politics. I may not agree with it, but it is clear what you get when he is in power.

    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think. Gove knows his market.

    I am not saying that he would be a better leader, but all parties have long track records of apoointing people that are popular with their members and less popular with wider voters.



    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

    The great mystery of 2001 was that we choose IDS ahead of Ken Clarke, which IMHO was the greatest mistake in British politics since I've been following politics.

    Ken Clarke would/did have opposed the Iraq War, which may have brought Blair down in 2003
    Ken Clarke and Charlie Kennedy could well have been an unstoppable combination.

  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,468
    "The Liberal Democrats are wobbling jellies of indecision and vacillation, especially Clegg!" - Boris, 2013.

    Tonight's polls so far:
    LDs Opinium 6%
    LDs Comres 8%
    LDs Survation 9%
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,370
    In overview (with YouGov to come), not really any major change on Labour being comfortably ahead and UKIP doing OK. Where's that swingback?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I hope so too, but it looks rather unlikely surely?
    fitalass said:

    Fox, Alexander will hold onto his seat at the next GE.

    Except it seems very unlikely that he will be eligible, standing in line with his UB40 in 2015.

    Less than 10% for the LibDems looks pretty grim.

    AveryLP said:

    Danny Alexander.

    Who do you want as Dave's successor?

    AveryLP said:

    Roger and tim don't like May. They simply support her for 'next leader' as a means of undermining the Conservative party and its current leadership.

    The problem with promoting May for leader is that it will never happen. Tories are like overgrown schoolchildren. The prospect of May as leader is as inviting to a child as being sent to stay with a maiden aunt for their summer holidays.

    The child would undoubtedly be safe but the holiday would go down as the most boring endured in a lifetime.



    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think.


    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

  • Options
    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Matthew d’Ancona in the Sunday Telegraph - Government reshuffle rumours bode ill for forward-looking Tories
  • Options
    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    surbiton said:

    MrJones said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Survation:

    All: LAB 36% CON 28% UKIP 20% LD 9%

    AB: LAB 38% CON 33% UKIP 11% LD 11%
    C1: LAB 33% CON 30% UKIP 19% LD 9%
    C2: LAB 32% CON 29% UKIP 27% LD 7%
    DE: LAB 42% CON 17% UKIP 25% LD 7%

    combined lib/lab vs con/ukip

    AB: 49 vs 44
    C1: 42 vs 49
    C2: 39 vs 52
    DE: 49 vs 42
    UKIP hurting the Tories badly !
    Indeed but it's the aspect of top and bottom vs the middle that i thought was most interesting.
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    surbiton said:

    MrJones said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Survation:

    All: LAB 36% CON 28% UKIP 20% LD 9%

    AB: LAB 38% CON 33% UKIP 11% LD 11%
    C1: LAB 33% CON 30% UKIP 19% LD 9%
    C2: LAB 32% CON 29% UKIP 27% LD 7%
    DE: LAB 42% CON 17% UKIP 25% LD 7%

    combined lib/lab vs con/ukip

    AB: 49 vs 44
    C1: 42 vs 49
    C2: 39 vs 52
    DE: 49 vs 42
    UKIP hurting the Tories badly !
    Well, the Tories are down 8% on their GE total and UKIP are on 20%. One way or another it's not great for the Tories or Labour. If there are a whole load of would-be Tories wrapped up in UKIP, then if - and I think most people would say when - UKIP win less than 20% the Tories would be positive. I however would suggest that UKIP's rise has not impacted the Tory votes as much as others would say, and so the Tories have less reason to believe there are lots of votes to be won back.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited July 2013
    I seriously believe that Danny Alexander has been the unexpected and mostly unsung hero of the Coalition Government.

    His line that the Ministry of Defence could sustain additional cuts as it had "more horses than tanks" outdid even Thatcher at her greatest.

    I hope so too, but it looks rather unlikely surely?

    fitalass said:

    Fox, Alexander will hold onto his seat at the next GE.

    Except it seems very unlikely that he will be eligible, standing in line with his UB40 in 2015.

    Less than 10% for the LibDems looks pretty grim.

    AveryLP said:

    Danny Alexander.

    Who do you want as Dave's successor?

    AveryLP said:

    Roger and tim don't like May. They simply support her for 'next leader' as a means of undermining the Conservative party and its current leadership.

    The problem with promoting May for leader is that it will never happen. Tories are like overgrown schoolchildren. The prospect of May as leader is as inviting to a child as being sent to stay with a maiden aunt for their summer holidays.

    The child would undoubtedly be safe but the holiday would go down as the most boring endured in a lifetime.



    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think.


    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    It is popularity with conservative members, not conservative voters that will decide the next leader.



    tim said:

    Amongst 2010 CON voters in ComRes poll just 28% say Gove's doing well against 31% saying badly


    Among LD's -44.

    Killer polling for the Messiah.
    It's unlikely that the next leader of the Tory Party will be a Bullingdon Boy, it's equally unlikely that the next leader of the Tory Party will be the only politician who polls worse than either of the Bullingdon Boys who think they can become leader.

    I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

    The wine is getting to you, tim.

    I suggest you rethink that last line.

  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AveryLP said:

    I seriously believe that Danny Alexander has been the unexpected and mostly unsung hero of the Coalition Government.

    It was a shame that Clegg had so little confidence in him he felt he had to rush the tainted Laws back with unseemly haste.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It is a good quote. Nearly as good as Churchills description of Naval tradition as "rum, sodomy and the lash"

    Our troops continue to prepare for the last war. The forces like tanks, artillery, and pointy nosed ships and planes.


    AveryLP said:

    I seriously believe that Danny Alexander has been the unexpected and mostly unsung hero of the Coalition Government.

    His line that the Ministry of Defence could sustain more cuts as it had "more horses than tanks" outdid even Thatcher at her greatest.


    I hope so too, but it looks rather unlikely surely?

    fitalass said:

    Fox, Alexander will hold onto his seat at the next GE.

    Except it seems very unlikely that he will be eligible, standing in line with his UB40 in 2015.

    Less than 10% for the LibDems looks pretty grim.

    AveryLP said:

    Danny Alexander.

    Who do you want as Dave's successor?

    AveryLP said:

    Roger and tim don't like May. They simply support her for 'next leader' as a means of undermining the Conservative party and its current leadership.

    The problem with promoting May for leader is that it will never happen. Tories are like overgrown schoolchildren. The prospect of May as leader is as inviting to a child as being sent to stay with a maiden aunt for their summer holidays.

    The child would undoubtedly be safe but the holiday would go down as the most boring endured in a lifetime.



    I think May will not win for much the same reasons that tim and roger like her. That is not how tory MPs and members think.


    tyson said:

    I am completely baffled by this posting set of affairs.

    I tried to respond to our Leicester GP, Mr Fox, about Gove. The point I was going to make is....I completely get Gove. He is clearly a man with a brain, a sense of purpose, a strategy, and a fundamental set of convictions. Labour's education policy has been truly appalling.

    I just wish we had a few more Gove types sitting on the shadow bench.

  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    "The Liberal Democrats are wobbling jellies of indecision and vacillation, especially Clegg!" - Boris, 2013.

    Tonight's polls so far:
    LDs Opinium 6%
    LDs Comres 8%
    LDs Survation 9%

    Sunil they are seriously low.

    Does anyone know when the Lib Dems last polled 6%.

    They will not be tying that yellow ribon around the conservative old oak tree, to much longer if they have any sense.
This discussion has been closed.