Just read the news. Should the appeal fail, TM should go to the country.
In a referendum or a general election? LOL If the latter, then that would be saying Parliament should decide. So why not introduce a bill now and stop effing about?
Just read the news. Should the appeal fail, TM should go to the country.
In a referendum or a general election? LOL If the latter, then that would be saying Parliament should decide. So why not introduce a bill now and stop effing about?
Merely as a fig leaf for getting a stonking majority and her own mandate.
So, the FBI think there is a 99% chance up to 5 foreign agencies hacked her server ...
One of the most astonishing things that came out was that prior to setting up the clintonemail.com private server, Hillary's email was entirely on @att.blackberry.net. One of the most powerful people in the world and her IT was the equivalent of Joe the Plumber's...
Just read the news. Should the appeal fail, TM should go to the country.
For what reason? It won't change the judgement. It's ironic that the Tories have expended so much time and energy criticising the EU judiciary when our own judges will also not rollover. The truth is that Theresa got it very badly wrong and it's far from the first time
PS. Good article by Alastair in posted by TSE early in the thread
Of course it was Leave, anybody's guess how many wanted Hard Brexit (10%?), EEA/EFTA (30%?), £350m to NHS (7%?), bash the Government (5%?). At least the 48% knew what they were voting for.
Remain as is, or Remain with the proposed reforms, or ever closer union if a Labour and Lib Dem coalition forms the next government? There are many possible outcomes for Remain as well, but no sensible person should claim that those voting for Remain really wanted to Leave. If you go down that path you can claim any vote means anything, it's nonsense.
Just read the news. Should the appeal fail, TM should go to the country.
For what reason? It won't change the judgement. It's ironic that the Tories have expended so much time and energy criticising the EU judiciary when our own judges will also not rollover. The truth is that Theresa got it very badly wrong and it's far from the first time
PS. Good article by Alastair in posted by TSE early in the thread
As a convenient way of getting around her previous commitment to not hold one.
One of the most astonishing things that came out was that prior to setting up the clintonemail.com private server, Hillary's email was entirely on @att.blackberry.net. One of the most powerful people in the world and her IT was the equivalent of Joe the Plumber's...
IIRC one of the FBI or DOJ docs made the point that Clinton's email would have been more secure if she had used almost any popular webmail service. So using BlackBerry's service was almost certainly safer than the in-house stuff.
Very sorry to see Pong leave the site last night after his spat with SeanT. His departure will inevitably weaken the collective betting know how of PB.com especially after the seemingly permanent departure of my near namesake and the now all too infrequent appearances by stjohn, the Brain of Brum.
Very sorry to see Pong leave the site last night after his spat with SeanT. His departure will inevitably weaken the collective betting know how of PB.com especially after the seemingly permanent departure of my near namesake and the now all too infrequent appearances by stjohn, the Brain of Brum.
He's managed to build a circa £20,000 book iirc taking on no more than £1k liability at any point in this election cycle.
Yes, but which Leave? And where is the £350/million for the NHS?
Well at least you are acknowledging that it was a Leave, so you are better than 32% of Remainers who think black is white, up is down, left is right, on is off etc.
Of course it was Leave, anybody's guess how many wanted Hard Brexit (10%?), EEA/EFTA (30%?), £350m to NHS (7%?), bash the Government (5%?). At least the 48% knew what they were voting for.
Now Brexit is cancelled, we are so much better off.
Cancelled? In what way?
Yes, after all this we are still going to leave, despite all the effort to the contrary. Although I do see why some might find it appealing to test the limits of the prerogative.
Listen, May and your whips: either you've got the support of the Commons and Lords for invoking Article 50 or you haven't. Introduce a bill. Quit the lawyering.
Why is a bill; necessary - a motion in the house should be sufficient?
Very sorry to see Pong leave the site last night after his spat with SeanT. His departure will inevitably weaken the collective betting know how of PB.com especially after the seemingly permanent departure of my near namesake and the now all too infrequent appearances by stjohn, the Brain of Brum.
He's managed to build a circa £20,000 book iirc taking on no more than £1k liability at any point in this election cycle.
Amazing.
And a huge loss.
Perhaps you could send him a Vanilla message asking him to return - it might just help.
Listen, May and your whips: either you've got the support of the Commons and Lords for invoking Article 50 or you haven't. Introduce a bill. Quit the lawyering.
Why is a bill; necessary - a motion in the house should be sufficient?
Because as argued in the court case, primary legislation is needed to strip British citizens of rights.
Yes, but which Leave? And where is the £350/million for the NHS?
Well at least you are acknowledging that it was a Leave, so you are better than 32% of Remainers who think black is white, up is down, left is right, on is off etc.
Of course it was Leave, anybody's guess how many wanted Hard Brexit (10%?), EEA/EFTA (30%?), £350m to NHS (7%?), bash the Government (5%?). At least the 48% knew what they were voting for.
What would that be?
Ever closer economic and political union?
A European army?
Turkey's entry to the EU?
No, status quo. The things you mentioned were more Leave lies. Of course if we are out we can't influence what the EU might now do.
Yes, but which Leave? And where is the £350/million for the NHS?
Well at least you are acknowledging that it was a Leave, so you are better than 32% of Remainers who think black is white, up is down, left is right, on is off etc.
Of course it was Leave, anybody's guess how many wanted Hard Brexit (10%?), EEA/EFTA (30%?), £350m to NHS (7%?), bash the Government (5%?). At least the 48% knew what they were voting for.
What would that be?
Ever closer economic and political union?
A European army?
Turkey's entry to the EU?
No, status quo. The things you mentioned were more Leave lies. Of course if we are out we can't influence what the EU might now do.
Isn't the EU army going forward now? It would have been a QMV decision before long...
Yes, but which Leave? And where is the £350/million for the NHS?
Well at least you are acknowledging that it was a Leave, so you are better than 32% of Remainers who think black is white, up is down, left is right, on is off etc.
Of course it was Leave, anybody's guess how many wanted Hard Brexit (10%?), EEA/EFTA (30%?), £350m to NHS (7%?), bash the Government (5%?). At least the 48% knew what they were voting for.
What would that be?
Ever closer economic and political union?
A European army?
Turkey's entry to the EU?
No, status quo. The things you mentioned were more Leave lies. Of course if we are out we can't influence what the EU might now do.
Status quo was never an option. The EU wasn't standing still for the UK and still won't.
Yes, but which Leave? And where is the £350/million for the NHS?
Well at least you are acknowledging that it was a Leave, so you are better than 32% of Remainers who think black is white, up is down, left is right, on is off etc.
Of course it was Leave, anybody's guess how many wanted Hard Brexit (10%?), EEA/EFTA (30%?), £350m to NHS (7%?), bash the Government (5%?). At least the 48% knew what they were voting for.
What would that be?
Ever closer economic and political union?
A European army?
Turkey's entry to the EU?
No, status quo. The things you mentioned were more Leave lies. Of course if we are out we can't influence what the EU might now do.
Why do you want us to be shackled to the EU corpse?
This is the 2nd big threat to Brexit, certainly Hard Brexit.
If public opinion shifts emphatically, let's say to 60/40 Remain by next Spring, would any PM trigger A50?
It would certainly take a very brave politician to go for HARD Brexit with polling like that.
I think most Brexiters know in their heart-of-hearts that the longer it goes on the more likely their initial 3.8% lead will fade away. June 23rd was the high-water mark. I suspect. Hence the hysteria from certain quarters when anything that looks like a delay occurs. Like many Remainers I am reconciled to the fact we will Leave but hell will freeze over before I accept a hard-Brexit without a fight.
Quite the contrary. As a Brexiteer since we entered 40 odd years ago I am convinced a second referendum will produce a much higher vote or leave. You'll have to accept a hard Brexit if the EU says that is will be what's on offer, and they seem minded to do so. I had to accept deeper integration for 40odd years so that's the way the cookie crumbles. You can do as I did, campaign for another referendum in 40 years to take us back in.
A second referendum would lead to Leave having a greater majority. The full weight of the government would be on Leave's side unlike last time.
The Remoaners are grasping at straws and trying to use anything and everything to prevent Brexit.
Once in dawns on the 58% of Leavers who think they will be better off after Brexit that they can file that in the waste paper basket along with the extra £350m a week for the NHS, the political landscape is likely to change.
Listen, May and your whips: either you've got the support of the Commons and Lords for invoking Article 50 or you haven't. Introduce a bill. Quit the lawyering.
Why is a bill; necessary - a motion in the house should be sufficient?
Because as argued in the court case, primary legislation is needed to strip British citizens of rights.
Ok , I see it now I've read the whole judgement. I think a general election is becoming likely.
Yes, but which Leave? And where is the £350/million for the NHS?
Well at least you are acknowledging that it was a Leave, so you are better than 32% of Remainers who think black is white, up is down, left is right, on is off etc.
Of course it was Leave, anybody's guess how many wanted Hard Brexit (10%?), EEA/EFTA (30%?), £350m to NHS (7%?), bash the Government (5%?). At least the 48% knew what they were voting for.
What would that be?
Ever closer economic and political union?
A European army?
Turkey's entry to the EU?
No, status quo. The things you mentioned were more Leave lies. Of course if we are out we can't influence what the EU might now do.
Status quo was never an option. The EU wasn't standing still for the UK and still won't.
Cameron negotiated a deal that specifically excluded the status quo...
Yes, but which Leave? And where is the £350/million for the NHS?
Well at least you are acknowledging that it was a Leave, so you are better than 32% of Remainers who think black is white, up is down, left is right, on is off etc.
Of course it was Leave, anybody's guess how many wanted Hard Brexit (10%?), EEA/EFTA (30%?), £350m to NHS (7%?), bash the Government (5%?). At least the 48% knew what they were voting for.
What would that be?
Ever closer economic and political union?
A European army?
Turkey's entry to the EU?
No, status quo. The things you mentioned were more Leave lies. Of course if we are out we can't influence what the EU might now do.
Status quo was never an option. The EU wasn't standing still for the UK and still won't.
Cameron negotiated a deal that specifically excluded the status quo...
"This deal is getting worse all the time!" - L. Calrissian.
@BBCNormanS: An Act of Parliament is the "logical conclusion" of today's High Court ruling say No 10
Which will be amendable...
I suspect that is the part the government doesn't want!
Given that the government refuses to give a running commentary the entire debate could be conducted in silence as a series of amendments go back and forth.
@BBCNormanS: An Act of Parliament is the "logical conclusion" of today's High Court ruling say No 10
Which will be amendable...
I suspect that is the part the government doesn't want!
Given that the government refuses to give a running commentary the entire debate could be conducted in silence as a series of amendments go back and forth.
Parliament certainly hasn't refused to give a commentary. That's the problem.
@iainjwatson: And downing st insist today's a50 ruling will have no influence on the election date and timetable for triggering it won't be be derailed
Comments
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/03/sources-99-percent-chance-foreign-intel-agencies-breached-clinton-server.html
So, the FBI think there is a 99% chance up to 5 foreign agencies hacked her server ...
If the latter, then that would be saying Parliament should decide.
So why not introduce a bill now and stop effing about?
(Do note Trump in to 3.4)
Or Aaaarrrrgggghhhh as we know it by repute ....
PS. Good article by Alastair in posted by TSE early in the thread
http://www.270towin.com/maps/p3AB2
It's been likened to a divorce. The pair split, the lawyers argue about the details and we come to a mutual agreement.
It's not "You'll have to stay married because we can't agree about the CDs."
.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2606372/
Remain as is, or Remain with the proposed reforms, or ever closer union if a Labour and Lib Dem coalition forms the next government? There are many possible outcomes for Remain as well, but no sensible person should claim that those voting for Remain really wanted to Leave. If you go down that path you can claim any vote means anything, it's nonsense.
Brilliant from Brendan O'Neill
Con 42%
Lab 28%
Will Labour be frit?
Maine CD-2 goes also if NH goes red.
Amazing.
And a huge loss.
Ever closer economic and political union?
A European army?
Turkey's entry to the EU?
Mr. D, trebuchets*. There are multiple arrays, protecting Castle Morris Dancer, on the east coast, on the south coast.
Why bother? the person you are talking too clearly thinks the other 52% should be disenfranchised, presumably because they are too stupid.
THe argument of elites down the centuries.
lolololololol
Clinton 49 .. Trump 45
http://opinionsavvy.com/2016/11/03/poll-clinton-maintains-four-point-lead-in-florida-rubio-pulls-ahead/
Con 42%
Lab 28%
Will Labour be frit?
Incidentally, some hours ago but I saw the lawyer who won the case on the news. Smug bugger.
The things you mentioned were more Leave lies. Of course if we are out we can't influence what the EU might now do.
Clinton has ventured away from her base a lot:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/trump-clinton-electoral-college/506306/
A return makes considerable sense.
You won. Get over it !
Clinton 74 .. Trump 14
http://www.latinodecisions.com/files/7614/7794/1262/Wk7FullTracker.pdf
In reality it is a means of promotion for all the dullards too inept to get promoted in their current posts...
Which will be amendable...
http://www.270towin.com/maps/BOvYE
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/01/hillary-clinton-visit-detroit-friday/93139264/
@iainjwatson: And downing st insist today's a50 ruling will have no influence on the election date and timetable for triggering it won't be be derailed