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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Government loses Article 50 case. Theresa May is the big loser

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Alistair said:

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Jobabob I think Hillary will probably win now.

    What has changed your view? (If indeed it has changed!)
    Trump simply isn't ahead in enough polls, and he is behind in the wrong polls.

    Mind you I could be wrong. If I am, piling on Trump on election night when he is clearly winning will be easier than Hillary who will quickly collapse into 1.01.

    Hence balancing up (If anything tilting toward Hillary bearing in mind Trump tail risk) now.
    Thanks for the response @Pulpstar

    Quick question for you. What do you reckon Hillary's ceiling is (realistically, DYOR etc).

    I profit up to and including 299 DEM ECV. 300+ it's a bust. I can hedge 300-329 at 4.5 today. Any realistic chance she busts that too?
    My view is that Hilary is either on on sub 300 or close to 400 no middle ground.
    To get close to 400 she needs Georgia and Texas !
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,387

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Have you won your bet :) ?

    It would appear so...
    Remember the correct phrase is "you lost, get over it"
    If I was editing PB today, this thread would have been headlined

    'Suck it up moaners, this is a victory for Parliamentary sovereignty, up there with chopping off the head of King Charles'

    I don't know why you are happy. This may end up forcing a harder Brexit.

    Happy is my default position.
    And you claim to be a Yorkshireman?
    Can't be. I've never met a happy Yorkshireman.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,148
    Another way to read that chart is that 36% of people polled couldn't make up their minds whether Mrs May is any better than Mr Corbyn would be.
  • Betfair mismatch

    First Back Hillary to win the popular vote (ask for 1.4, wait to get matched)
    Then Back Trump to win the election (at 3.4)

    The default outcome is a sub-1% loss, but Nate Silver gives you a 12% chance of collecting on both, and only a 0.4% chance of losing both.
  • pinkrosepinkrose Posts: 189
    Scott_P said:

    Tories + UKIP = 52% same as Brexit Leave vote
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,234

    DavidL said:

    ...

    3) We're likely to get a vote on staying in the customs unions and the single market.

    But that makes zero sense, because parliament can't decide whether we are offered either of those, or on what terms. It can perhaps express a view that they are or are not desirable, but this is a negotiation with 27 other countries, the Commission and the EU parliament. You can't negotiate by parliamentary debate.
    Which is why this decision is ridiculous. Of course Parliament has to vote on the repeal of the ECA. It needs to vote on the great reform bill we were promised. But it cannot usefully vote on the terms of the deal until the government has made it and to do that they need to serve notice under Article 50.

    The decision is very Kafkaesque.

    Having skimmed it I tend to agree with those who are criticising the position of the Government lawyers. They seem to have adopted an absolutist position; that the government can do what it likes regardless of the impact on domestic law. That cannot be right; the Royal Prerogative cannot be used to override primary legislation. But there were much more straightforward arguments about the application of Article 50. the ECA will remain a part of our law (including its provisions re the supremacy of EU law) until Parliament decides otherwise.

    The absurd position adopted by the government lawyers seems to have given the claimants an advantage that they should not have had and perhaps given the Court little option. Any appeal will have to be far more subtle. Maybe as subtle as a brick.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,386
    edited November 2016
    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/794190789748330496

    A Parliamentary vote v. a referendum vote.

    On the sauce for the gander principle, I guess Mikey must think that the same applies to the 59 Scottish constituencies.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    If anyone's interested, I've just posted my initial thoughts on the Brexit judgement on my blog... www.lifestuff.xyz

    Cheers, interesting!

    Are you working on the Comments issue on your blog?
    The Facebook thing is a significant limitation for you in my opinion if you want to build up a community.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    Pulpstar said:

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Jobabob I think Hillary will probably win now.

    What has changed your view? (If indeed it has changed!)
    Trump simply isn't ahead in enough polls, and he is behind in the wrong polls.

    Mind you I could be wrong. If I am, piling on Trump on election night when he is clearly winning will be easier than Hillary who will quickly collapse into 1.01.

    Hence balancing up (If anything tilting toward Hillary bearing in mind Trump tail risk) now.
    Thanks for the response @Pulpstar

    Quick question for you. What do you reckon Hillary's ceiling is (realistically, DYOR etc).

    I profit up to and including 299 DEM ECV. 300+ it's a bust. I can hedge 300-329 at 4.5 today. Any realistic chance she busts that too?
    Holding Ohio or gaining Arizona busts you I reckon.

    Absolute, absolute max ceiling I can see now is 358 CV.

    Max Clinton landslide (Realistically)

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/e3yDy
    No chance she holds OH IMO, unless Trump closes extremely badly!

    Well quite. I think gaining Arizona is more realistic.

    But this is the "max" map I'm looking at here.
    It looks like strategically the Democrats have chosen to focus on NC and Florida than Ohio. Ohio doesnt stack up for the Democrats..... ehnically, college educated and younger voters. Strikes me as a pretty grim place.....WWC and farmers..... and ageing......a combination of Hartlepool, Lincolnshire and Blackpool without the sea.....


    BTW.... my anti religious rant last night....I have spent the most wonderful afternoon in Florence. Clocked up twenty thousand steps. I think I might try and convert to Catholicism.....OK the belief in God may be a sticking point, but not insurmountable

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited November 2016
    AnneJGP said:

    ttps://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/794187003961180160

    Another way to read that chart is that 36% of people polled couldn't make up their minds whether Mrs May is any better than Mr Corbyn would be.
    Or, that there are a lot of Labour supporters who can’t bring themselves to vote against Jeremy and would rather abstain. – I’m sure there are other interpretations…
  • glw said:

    Now new research from YouGov finds that the highest number of Remain voters are still stuck at the first stage: denial. Nearly a third (32%) of Remain voters say that they don’t believe people in the UK really wanted to leave the EU.

    You would have to be a total bloody idiot to think that, it's not as though the question was even remotely ambiguous. People understood what they were voting for.
    They understood that they were voting to leave, but some also thought they were voting for £350m/week to go to the NHS. Some were voting for a soft Brexit, for EEA or EFTA etc. Some thought that Cameron would stay as PM, some thought the pound wouldn't plummet.
    So each individual may have understood what they were voting for, trouble is there were many different interpretations.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,913
    AnneJGP said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    She's so natural

    Charlie Spierling
    [Wave Hands] -> Clinton debate prep documents included jokes; visual instructions https://t.co/ttcepIktWV

    Is that a big deal? That's why one does prep - to become aware of gaps in the presentation and take steps to fill them.
    It's what leads to things like 'Please clap'.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    Poor ISM non-manufacturing PMI from the US. It looks like the weak Euro and weak Sterling are beginning to bite for the US.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,387
    AnneJGP said:

    Another way to read that chart is that 36% of people polled couldn't make up their minds whether Mrs May is any better than Mr Corbyn would be.
    Or 52% don't think that May is better than Corbyn.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ...

    3) We're likely to get a vote on staying in the customs unions and the single market.

    But that makes zero sense, because parliament can't decide whether we are offered either of those, or on what terms. It can perhaps express a view that they are or are not desirable, but this is a negotiation with 27 other countries, the Commission and the EU parliament. You can't negotiate by parliamentary debate.
    Which is why this decision is ridiculous. Of course Parliament has to vote on the repeal of the ECA. It needs to vote on the great reform bill we were promised. But it cannot usefully vote on the terms of the deal until the government has made it and to do that they need to serve notice under Article 50.

    The decision is very Kafkaesque.

    Having skimmed it I tend to agree with those who are criticising the position of the Government lawyers. They seem to have adopted an absolutist position; that the government can do what it likes regardless of the impact on domestic law. That cannot be right; the Royal Prerogative cannot be used to override primary legislation. But there were much more straightforward arguments about the application of Article 50. the ECA will remain a part of our law (including its provisions re the supremacy of EU law) until Parliament decides otherwise.

    The absurd position adopted by the government lawyers seems to have given the claimants an advantage that they should not have had and perhaps given the Court little option. Any appeal will have to be far more subtle. Maybe as subtle as a brick.

    Thanks for that. The ruling does make more sense now.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    It's what leads to things like 'Please clap'.

    Strong message here...
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/794190789748330496

    A Parliamentary vote v. a referendum vote.

    On the sauce for the gander principle, I guess Mikey must think that the same applies to the 59 Scottish constituencies.

    Hmmmm Tory remainers can vote on their conscience knowing that they are safe.... the opposition is led by a clown. Labour remainers can vote on their conscience knowing they are led by a clown and Turkeys waiting for Xmas anyhow...better to go out with a loud gobble before festivities begin
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 73,011

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Have you won your bet :) ?

    It would appear so...
    Remember the correct phrase is "you lost, get over it"
    If I was editing PB today, this thread would have been headlined

    'Suck it up moaners, this is a victory for Parliamentary sovereignty, up there with chopping off the head of King Charles'

    I don't know why you are happy. This may end up forcing a harder Brexit.

    Happy is my default position.
    And you claim to be a Yorkshireman?
    Can't be. I've never met a happy Yorkshireman.
    From which we can only conclude you make Yorkshireman miserable.
  • AnneJGP said:

    Another way to read that chart is that 36% of people polled couldn't make up their minds whether Mrs May is any better than Mr Corbyn would be.
    Or 52% don't think that May is better than Corbyn.
    What sort of score does Don't Know typically get on that sort of polling?
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    Counter-factual time:

    Thinking back to when the Scots voted for independence, there was at least a manifesto of what Independence met, that could be argued over and attacked / defended.

    With hindsight, Cameron should have insisted on the same - appoint the official Leave group much earlier, give them cash and civil service access to create the Leave white paper, and have the referendum on that basis.

    Would have meant that:
    -all the inconsistencies about what Leave actually means would have been thrashed out ahead of the vote.
    -the Leave side would have been owning a manifesto not making stuff up to put on a bus
    -both sides would have asked people to vote for something, rather than one for and one against.
    -there would be much more clarity about what Leave meant and how it would be implemented.
    -far less whinging about the result from the losers (maybe!)

    I wonder if Cameron would still be in number 10 if he'd followed that route, instead of going for his re-negotiation?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,913
    tpfkar said:

    I wonder if Cameron would still be in number 10 if he'd followed that route, instead of going for his re-negotiation?

    If he'd set that up before trying to renegotiate he might have got further with that too.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/794190789748330496

    A Parliamentary vote v. a referendum vote.

    On the sauce for the gander principle, I guess Mikey must think that the same applies to the 59 Scottish constituencies.
    649* out of 650 MPs at the last election were elected to represent parties whose official position was to remain in the EU. You can spin stats like these any way you want.

    * The 1 being Carswell, obviously
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,148

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/794190789748330496

    A Parliamentary vote v. a referendum vote.

    On the sauce for the gander principle, I guess Mikey must think that the same applies to the 59 Scottish constituencies.
    Presumably so, but I wasn't aware that the Scottish constituencies voted differently to their MPs' opinions. That's what makes it an issue, isn't it?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,387
    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Have you won your bet :) ?

    It would appear so...
    Remember the correct phrase is "you lost, get over it"
    If I was editing PB today, this thread would have been headlined

    'Suck it up moaners, this is a victory for Parliamentary sovereignty, up there with chopping off the head of King Charles'

    I don't know why you are happy. This may end up forcing a harder Brexit.

    Happy is my default position.
    And you claim to be a Yorkshireman?
    Can't be. I've never met a happy Yorkshireman.
    From which we can only conclude you make Yorkshireman miserable.
    Yes - they are so sad that they are not proper northerners!
  • glwglw Posts: 10,012

    glw said:

    Now new research from YouGov finds that the highest number of Remain voters are still stuck at the first stage: denial. Nearly a third (32%) of Remain voters say that they don’t believe people in the UK really wanted to leave the EU.

    You would have to be a total bloody idiot to think that, it's not as though the question was even remotely ambiguous. People understood what they were voting for.
    They understood that they were voting to leave, but some also thought they were voting for £350m/week to go to the NHS. Some were voting for a soft Brexit, for EEA or EFTA etc. Some thought that Cameron would stay as PM, some thought the pound wouldn't plummet.
    So each individual may have understood what they were voting for, trouble is there were many different interpretations.
    It doesn't matter what they thought the destination was, the question was remain in or leave the EU, and you had to tick a box saying leave. How anyone can interpret that as anything other than a vote to leave is beyond me.

    Apparently 32% of Remain voters aren't just in denial they are quite stupid.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 73,011

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Have you won your bet :) ?

    It would appear so...
    Remember the correct phrase is "you lost, get over it"
    If I was editing PB today, this thread would have been headlined

    'Suck it up moaners, this is a victory for Parliamentary sovereignty, up there with chopping off the head of King Charles'

    I don't know why you are happy. This may end up forcing a harder Brexit.

    Happy is my default position.
    And you claim to be a Yorkshireman?
    Can't be. I've never met a happy Yorkshireman.
    From which we can only conclude you make Yorkshireman miserable.
    Yes - they are so sad that they are not proper northerners!
    Is that proper northern logic ?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    tpfkar said:

    I wonder if Cameron would still be in number 10 if he'd followed that route, instead of going for his re-negotiation?

    It would have failed for the same reason. What Brexit looks like is not up to us, or the Government.

    The final result depends on what other countries want to do
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,407
    edited November 2016

    AnneJGP said:

    Another way to read that chart is that 36% of people polled couldn't make up their minds whether Mrs May is any better than Mr Corbyn would be.
    Or 52% don't think that May is better than Corbyn.
    What sort of score does Don't Know typically get on that sort of polling?
    In November 2011 this was the best PM polling by YouGov

    Cameron 37%

    Miliband 20%

    Clegg 5%

    DK 38%

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/7rj2tjjm1c/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Leaders-Perceptions-050515.pdf
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,422
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ...

    3) We're likely to get a vote on staying in the customs unions and the single market.

    But that makes zero sense, because parliament can't decide whether we are offered either of those, or on what terms. It can perhaps express a view that they are or are not desirable, but this is a negotiation with 27 other countries, the Commission and the EU parliament. You can't negotiate by parliamentary debate.
    Which is why this decision is ridiculous. Of course Parliament has to vote on the repeal of the ECA. It needs to vote on the great reform bill we were promised. But it cannot usefully vote on the terms of the deal until the government has made it and to do that they need to serve notice under Article 50.

    The decision is very Kafkaesque.

    Having skimmed it I tend to agree with those who are criticising the position of the Government lawyers. They seem to have adopted an absolutist position; that the government can do what it likes regardless of the impact on domestic law. That cannot be right; the Royal Prerogative cannot be used to override primary legislation. But there were much more straightforward arguments about the application of Article 50. the ECA will remain a part of our law (including its provisions re the supremacy of EU law) until Parliament decides otherwise.

    The absurd position adopted by the government lawyers seems to have given the claimants an advantage that they should not have had and perhaps given the Court little option. Any appeal will have to be far more subtle. Maybe as subtle as a brick.
    My previous impression was that the Government lawyers' position was that the Government has no choice but to use the Royal Prerogative. That the Government has no discretion to put the act in front of Parliament, even if it wishes to do so. I suspect the political imperative was to remove any doubt or wiggle room and this political imperative trumped legal arguments.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    glw said:

    It doesn't matter what they thought the destination was, the question was remain in or leave the EU, and you had to tick a box saying leave. How anyone can interpret that as anything other than a vote to leave is beyond me.

    Because the vote was based on their understanding of the destination.

    Duh
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    edited November 2016
    Here we go.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/7rj2tjjm1c/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Leaders-Perceptions-050515.pdf

    In 2014, for all but two times the question was asked, the DK sum on a similar question ranged between 36 and 44. It narrowed markedly in the run-up to the election. To 27.

    I'm still not sure why a place like this doesn't show such data as part of a time series but mine is not to wonder why.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited November 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Jobabob said:

    JackW said:

    Arizona - Saguaro - Sample 2,229 - 29 Oct - 31 Oct

    Clinton 45 .. Trump 44

    https://www.scribd.com/document/329707080/Saguaro-Strategies-Arizona-Survey-October-29-31

    Dire poll for Trump with a big sample.

    Latino effect presumably there?

    I think it's just about possible that Trump loses some or all of AZ, CO, NV, FL and carries WI.

    Demographics.
    There's a lot of contradictory data out there. It can't all be accurate. Either Trump's national share is strengthening and he will knock off a swathe of swing states, or it isn't and he won't.
    Or, there isn't universal swing in operation.
    It is hard to judge all of the information, but I'm now as follows:

    Clinton

    319+ EVs +613
    270-318 +697
    250-269 +760
    0-250 760 less £15 per ECV below 249.

    That leaves me in profit for anything over 200 ECVs for Clinton, which requires Trump to win Virginia.
    That's a great looking book, I wish it were mine!
    AAMOI, how do you expect the POTUS election to finish?
    Clinton 213 - 323 ECVs upper, lower range.

    Trump faces significant difficulties getting over 266, if he does however then he could easily push Hillary down to 217 (Since I expect Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania all to be reasonably correlated)
    Thanks for your reply, sorry for the delay in getting back - I'm amazed by your massive 110 range in Hillary's ECVs.
    I'd narrow things down a bit and say 308 if she wins Florida and 279 if she doesn't. Around 85% assured of becoming the next POTUS imho.
  • glw said:

    Now new research from YouGov finds that the highest number of Remain voters are still stuck at the first stage: denial. Nearly a third (32%) of Remain voters say that they don’t believe people in the UK really wanted to leave the EU.

    You would have to be a total bloody idiot to think that, it's not as though the question was even remotely ambiguous. People understood what they were voting for.
    No, you just need to move in a circle of friends with similar views - just as we saw with SindyRef there was genuine consternation among some when the vote didn't go their way - when all their friends voted for it!
  • tpfkar said:

    Counter-factual time:

    Thinking back to when the Scots voted for independence, there was at least a manifesto of what Independence met, that could be argued over and attacked / defended.

    With hindsight, Cameron should have insisted on the same - appoint the official Leave group much earlier, give them cash and civil service access to create the Leave white paper, and have the referendum on that basis.

    Would have meant that:
    -all the inconsistencies about what Leave actually means would have been thrashed out ahead of the vote.
    -the Leave side would have been owning a manifesto not making stuff up to put on a bus
    -both sides would have asked people to vote for something, rather than one for and one against.
    -there would be much more clarity about what Leave meant and how it would be implemented.
    -far less whinging about the result from the losers (maybe!)

    I wonder if Cameron would still be in number 10 if he'd followed that route, instead of going for his re-negotiation?

    Yes, the trouble with referenda in general and that one in particular is that people know what one side (the status quo) means. The other side is open to all, even contradictory, interpretations and also to a bash the Government or elites/experts.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,422
    tpfkar said:

    Counter-factual time:

    Thinking back to when the Scots voted for independence, there was at least a manifesto of what Independence met, that could be argued over and attacked / defended.

    With hindsight, Cameron should have insisted on the same - appoint the official Leave group much earlier, give them cash and civil service access to create the Leave white paper, and have the referendum on that basis.

    Would have meant that:
    -all the inconsistencies about what Leave actually means would have been thrashed out ahead of the vote.
    -the Leave side would have been owning a manifesto not making stuff up to put on a bus
    -both sides would have asked people to vote for something, rather than one for and one against.
    -there would be much more clarity about what Leave meant and how it would be implemented.
    -far less whinging about the result from the losers (maybe!)

    I wonder if Cameron would still be in number 10 if he'd followed that route, instead of going for his re-negotiation?

    I have been thinking that too. What it keeps coming back to is they never expected Leave to win. Which is why we are in this mess.
  • Midlife Crisis Mason....

    Make no mistake though, senior Corbynistas confirm he is acting as an aide in all but name. He believes Labour can do in Britain what Syriza did in Greece,

    https://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/greece-word-paul-mason-labour/
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,386
    edited November 2016
    AnneJGP said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/794190789748330496

    A Parliamentary vote v. a referendum vote.

    On the sauce for the gander principle, I guess Mikey must think that the same applies to the 59 Scottish constituencies.
    Presumably so, but I wasn't aware that the Scottish constituencies voted differently to their MPs' opinions. That's what makes it an issue, isn't it?
    Choosing 'to defy their electorate' is the issue according to the flaxen haired one, specifically in any Article 50 vote I presume.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Jobabob said:

    JackW said:

    Arizona - Saguaro - Sample 2,229 - 29 Oct - 31 Oct

    Clinton 45 .. Trump 44

    https://www.scribd.com/document/329707080/Saguaro-Strategies-Arizona-Survey-October-29-31

    Dire poll for Trump with a big sample.

    Latino effect presumably there?

    I think it's just about possible that Trump loses some or all of AZ, CO, NV, FL and carries WI.

    Demographics.
    There's a lot of contradictory data out there. It can't all be accurate. Either Trump's national share is strengthening and he will knock off a swathe of swing states, or it isn't and he won't.
    Or, there isn't universal swing in operation.
    It is hard to judge all of the information, but I'm now as follows:

    Clinton

    319+ EVs +613
    270-318 +697
    250-269 +760
    0-250 760 less £15 per ECV below 249.

    That leaves me in profit for anything over 200 ECVs for Clinton, which requires Trump to win Virginia.
    That's a great looking book, I wish it were mine!
    AAMOI, how do you expect the POTUS election to finish?
    Clinton 213 - 323 ECVs upper, lower range.

    Trump faces significant difficulties getting over 266, if he does however then he could easily push Hillary down to 217 (Since I expect Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania all to be reasonably correlated)
    Thanks for your reply, sorry for the delay in getting back - I'm amazed by your massive 110 range in Hillary's ECVs.
    I'd narrow things down a bit and say 308 if she wins Florida and 279 if she doesn't. Virtually certain to be the next POTUS imho.
    North Carolina going red, Florida Blue.

    Could be the basis of a bet that...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,913
    edited November 2016
    Ted Cruz must think Trump's going to win for him to be doing this. Campaigning in the gloriously named town of Prole.

    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/794137317023813632
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Scott_P said:

    glw said:

    It doesn't matter what they thought the destination was, the question was remain in or leave the EU, and you had to tick a box saying leave. How anyone can interpret that as anything other than a vote to leave is beyond me.

    Because the vote was based on their understanding of the destination.

    Duh
    Was it? My focus was on escape.

    I voted to tunnel out of the prison camp, not which bar I was going to buy my first beer in afterwards.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Ted Cruz must think Trump's going to win for him to be doing this.

    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/794137317023813632

    What you mean the salute? Yes I guess that will be the new normal.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,386
    edited November 2016
    deleted duplicate
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,387

    Midlife Crisis Mason....

    Make no mistake though, senior Corbynistas confirm he is acting as an aide in all but name. He believes Labour can do in Britain what Syriza did in Greece,

    https://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/greece-word-paul-mason-labour/

    Syriza have destroyed the Greek Labour party as a parliamentary force. He expects the same in the UK?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,063



    Thanks for your reply, sorry for the delay in getting back - I'm amazed by your massive 110 range in Hillary's ECVs.
    I'd narrow things down a bit and say 308 if she wins Florida and 279 if she doesn't. Around 85% assured of becoming the next POTUS imho.

    Yes but there is a big potential range. On Monday I had Clinton winning 278-260. The three "toss ups" for me now are NC, AZ and FL. I've put them all in the Trump camp but if HRC wins all three she's home by 333-205 so the range is 55 which in a market with just 538 EVs is over 10%.

    I wouldn't play that market with that big a range - I do think Clinton will edge NC but FL and AZ - I don't know.

  • Here we go.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/7rj2tjjm1c/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Leaders-Perceptions-050515.pdf

    In 2014, for all but two times the question was asked, the DK sum on a similar question ranged between 36 and 44. It narrowed markedly in the run-up to the election. To 27.

    I'm still not sure why a place like this doesn't show such data as part of a time series but mine is not to wonder why.

    Useful for reminding us how often Cameron beat May's 47 score.....like........never.....he did get to 41....once, but of course he was facing a much stronger Ed.....on 17.....
  • Midlife Crisis Mason....

    Make no mistake though, senior Corbynistas confirm he is acting as an aide in all but name. He believes Labour can do in Britain what Syriza did in Greece,

    https://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/greece-word-paul-mason-labour/

    Syriza have destroyed the Greek Labour party as a parliamentary force. He expects the same in the UK?
    One too many crappy hipster lagers me thinks...
  • glw said:

    glw said:

    Now new research from YouGov finds that the highest number of Remain voters are still stuck at the first stage: denial. Nearly a third (32%) of Remain voters say that they don’t believe people in the UK really wanted to leave the EU.

    You would have to be a total bloody idiot to think that, it's not as though the question was even remotely ambiguous. People understood what they were voting for.
    They understood that they were voting to leave, but some also thought they were voting for £350m/week to go to the NHS. Some were voting for a soft Brexit, for EEA or EFTA etc. Some thought that Cameron would stay as PM, some thought the pound wouldn't plummet.
    So each individual may have understood what they were voting for, trouble is there were many different interpretations.
    It doesn't matter what they thought the destination was, the question was remain in or leave the EU, and you had to tick a box saying leave. How anyone can interpret that as anything other than a vote to leave is beyond me.

    Apparently 32% of Remain voters aren't just in denial they are quite stupid.
    Yes, but which Leave?
    And where is the £350/million for the NHS?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Scott_P said:
    I think the ECJ will uphold whatever decision the Supreme Court reaches.

    "Umpire's call" if you like.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,148

    AnneJGP said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    She's so natural

    Charlie Spierling
    [Wave Hands] -> Clinton debate prep documents included jokes; visual instructions https://t.co/ttcepIktWV

    Is that a big deal? That's why one does prep - to become aware of gaps in the presentation and take steps to fill them.
    It's what leads to things like 'Please clap'.
    Nothing wrong with that either if audience participation is part of the show, as long as viewers/listeners don't get the impression it's a genuine appreciation of what's being applauded.

    If it's an attempt to persuade viewers/listeners that policies being suggested by Trump/Clinton/May/Corbyn are being warmly applauded spontaneously by an audience of uncommitted voters, then it might be considered manipulative, I suppose.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,012
    Scott_P said:

    Because the vote was based on their understanding of the destination.

    Duh

    FFS it's not complicated, the hypothetical destinations are many, but they all involve leaving the EU. That was literally the question and the choice you had to make. Nobody on the Leave side was saying a vote to Leave was really a vote to Remain, and the Remain side were warning that Leave was Leave and all sorts of dreadful consequences would occur.

    This goes far beyond butt hurt, it is absolutely ludicrous to say that people voted for X thinking they would actually get Y, or vice versa.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334

    Midlife Crisis Mason....

    Make no mistake though, senior Corbynistas confirm he is acting as an aide in all but name. He believes Labour can do in Britain what Syriza did in Greece,

    https://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/greece-word-paul-mason-labour/

    Syriza have destroyed the Greek Labour party as a parliamentary force. He expects the same in the UK?
    We can only hope!
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Jobabob said:

    JackW said:

    Arizona - Saguaro - Sample 2,229 - 29 Oct - 31 Oct

    Clinton 45 .. Trump 44

    https://www.scribd.com/document/329707080/Saguaro-Strategies-Arizona-Survey-October-29-31

    Dire poll for Trump with a big sample.

    Latino effect presumably there?

    I think it's just about possible that Trump loses some or all of AZ, CO, NV, FL and carries WI.

    Demographics.
    There's a lot of contradictory data out there. It can't all be accurate. Either Trump's national share is strengthening and he will knock off a swathe of swing states, or it isn't and he won't.
    Or, there isn't universal swing in operation.
    It is hard to judge all of the information, but I'm now as follows:

    Clinton

    319+ EVs +613
    270-318 +697
    250-269 +760
    0-250 760 less £15 per ECV below 249.

    That leaves me in profit for anything over 200 ECVs for Clinton, which requires Trump to win Virginia.
    That's a great looking book, I wish it were mine!
    AAMOI, how do you expect the POTUS election to finish?
    Clinton 213 - 323 ECVs upper, lower range.

    Trump faces significant difficulties getting over 266, if he does however then he could easily push Hillary down to 217 (Since I expect Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania all to be reasonably correlated)
    Thanks for your reply, sorry for the delay in getting back - I'm amazed by your massive 110 range in Hillary's ECVs.
    I'd narrow things down a bit and say 308 if she wins Florida and 279 if she doesn't. Virtually certain to be the next POTUS imho.
    North Carolina going red, Florida Blue.

    Could be the basis of a bet that...
    A Trump win would be as monumental as Brexit Referendum mis-calculation. Here's hoping for 2 in a row.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,913
    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    She's so natural

    Charlie Spierling
    [Wave Hands] -> Clinton debate prep documents included jokes; visual instructions https://t.co/ttcepIktWV

    Is that a big deal? That's why one does prep - to become aware of gaps in the presentation and take steps to fill them.
    It's what leads to things like 'Please clap'.
    Nothing wrong with that either if audience participation is part of the show, as long as viewers/listeners don't get the impression it's a genuine appreciation of what's being applauded.
    I was referring to this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdCYMvaUcrA
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,148
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ...

    3) We're likely to get a vote on staying in the customs unions and the single market.

    But that makes zero sense, because parliament can't decide whether we are offered either of those, or on what terms. It can perhaps express a view that they are or are not desirable, but this is a negotiation with 27 other countries, the Commission and the EU parliament. You can't negotiate by parliamentary debate.
    Which is why this decision is ridiculous. Of course Parliament has to vote on the repeal of the ECA. It needs to vote on the great reform bill we were promised. But it cannot usefully vote on the terms of the deal until the government has made it and to do that they need to serve notice under Article 50.

    The decision is very Kafkaesque.

    Having skimmed it I tend to agree with those who are criticising the position of the Government lawyers. They seem to have adopted an absolutist position; that the government can do what it likes regardless of the impact on domestic law. That cannot be right; the Royal Prerogative cannot be used to override primary legislation. But there were much more straightforward arguments about the application of Article 50. the ECA will remain a part of our law (including its provisions re the supremacy of EU law) until Parliament decides otherwise.

    The absurd position adopted by the government lawyers seems to have given the claimants an advantage that they should not have had and perhaps given the Court little option. Any appeal will have to be far more subtle. Maybe as subtle as a brick.
    Any suggestions for us non-lawyers as to what this subtle brick might be like?
  • Here we go.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/7rj2tjjm1c/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Leaders-Perceptions-050515.pdf

    In 2014, for all but two times the question was asked, the DK sum on a similar question ranged between 36 and 44. It narrowed markedly in the run-up to the election. To 27.

    I'm still not sure why a place like this doesn't show such data as part of a time series but mine is not to wonder why.

    Useful for reminding us how often Cameron beat May's 47 score.....like........never.....he did get to 41....once, but of course he was facing a much stronger Ed.....on 17.....
    Oh, exactly.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301

    AnneJGP said:

    Another way to read that chart is that 36% of people polled couldn't make up their minds whether Mrs May is any better than Mr Corbyn would be.
    Or 52% don't think that May is better than Corbyn.
    What sort of score does Don't Know typically get on that sort of polling?
    In November 2011 this was the best PM polling by YouGov

    Cameron 37%

    Miliband 20%

    Clegg 5%

    DK 38%

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/7rj2tjjm1c/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Leaders-Perceptions-050515.pdf
    Rather like Extras or Sundries being top scorers in an Ashes Test.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,422
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Jobabob said:

    JackW said:

    Arizona - Saguaro - Sample 2,229 - 29 Oct - 31 Oct

    Clinton 45 .. Trump 44

    https://www.scribd.com/document/329707080/Saguaro-Strategies-Arizona-Survey-October-29-31

    Dire poll for Trump with a big sample.

    Latino effect presumably there?

    I think it's just about possible that Trump loses some or all of AZ, CO, NV, FL and carries WI.

    Demographics.
    There's a lot of contradictory data out there. It can't all be accurate. Either Trump's national share is strengthening and he will knock off a swathe of swing states, or it isn't and he won't.
    Or, there isn't universal swing in operation.
    It is hard to judge all of the information, but I'm now as follows:

    Clinton

    319+ EVs +613
    270-318 +697
    250-269 +760
    0-250 760 less £15 per ECV below 249.

    That leaves me in profit for anything over 200 ECVs for Clinton, which requires Trump to win Virginia.
    That's a great looking book, I wish it were mine!
    AAMOI, how do you expect the POTUS election to finish?
    Clinton 213 - 323 ECVs upper, lower range.

    Trump faces significant difficulties getting over 266, if he does however then he could easily push Hillary down to 217 (Since I expect Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania all to be reasonably correlated)
    Thanks for your reply, sorry for the delay in getting back - I'm amazed by your massive 110 range in Hillary's ECVs.
    I'd narrow things down a bit and say 308 if she wins Florida and 279 if she doesn't. Virtually certain to be the next POTUS imho.
    North Carolina going red, Florida Blue.

    Could be the basis of a bet that...
    Funnily enough, what I think is happening is that Republicans are voting Republican on party lines. Any Trump deficiencies are overlooked, but equally he doesn't have much personal support.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Jobabob said:

    JackW said:

    Arizona - Saguaro - Sample 2,229 - 29 Oct - 31 Oct

    Clinton 45 .. Trump 44

    https://www.scribd.com/document/329707080/Saguaro-Strategies-Arizona-Survey-October-29-31

    Dire poll for Trump with a big sample.

    Latino effect presumably there?

    I think it's just about possible that Trump loses some or all of AZ, CO, NV, FL and carries WI.

    Demographics.
    There's a lot of contradictory data out there. It can't all be accurate. Either Trump's national share is strengthening and he will knock off a swathe of swing states, or it isn't and he won't.
    Or, there isn't universal swing in operation.
    It is hard to judge all of the information, but I'm now as follows:

    Clinton

    319+ EVs +613
    270-318 +697
    250-269 +760
    0-250 760 less £15 per ECV below 249.

    That leaves me in profit for anything over 200 ECVs for Clinton, which requires Trump to win Virginia.
    That's a great looking book, I wish it were mine!
    AAMOI, how do you expect the POTUS election to finish?
    Clinton 213 - 323 ECVs upper, lower range.

    Trump faces significant difficulties getting over 266, if he does however then he could easily push Hillary down to 217 (Since I expect Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania all to be reasonably correlated)
    Thanks for your reply, sorry for the delay in getting back - I'm amazed by your massive 110 range in Hillary's ECVs.
    I'd narrow things down a bit and say 308 if she wins Florida and 279 if she doesn't. Around 85% assured of becoming the next POTUS imho.
    Are there any shy Americans? If so, Trump will win. I've never met a shy one, mind...in hundreds of visits.
  • GeoffM said:

    Scott_P said:

    glw said:

    It doesn't matter what they thought the destination was, the question was remain in or leave the EU, and you had to tick a box saying leave. How anyone can interpret that as anything other than a vote to leave is beyond me.

    Because the vote was based on their understanding of the destination.

    Duh
    Was it? My focus was on escape.

    I voted to tunnel out of the prison camp, not which bar I was going to buy my first beer in afterwards.
    Mine was in The Maltsters in Cheshunt.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited November 2016
    A slight movement on the spreads this p.m. The good news is that Sporting have seen sense (or perhaps they've seen clients voting with their feet as i suggested yesterday). Either way, they've reduced their spread margin on their ECV market from a ridiculous 15 points to a much fairer 10 points. Greedy Spreadex on the other hand have actually increased their margin from 12 points to 15!

    As regards the spreads themselves, Sporting go:

    Clinton ....... 292 - 302
    Trump ........ 234 - 244

    Spreadex go:

    Clinton ....... 285 - 300
    Trump ........ 237 - 252

    538. com go:

    Clinton ....... 294
    Trump ........ 243
  • glwglw Posts: 10,012

    Yes, but which Leave?
    And where is the £350/million for the NHS?

    Well at least you are acknowledging that it was a Leave, so you are better than 32% of Remainers who think black is white, up is down, left is right, on is off etc.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Scott_P said:
    I don't recall a YouGov poll from last week giving the Tories a 13% lead. Two weeks ago I believe it was 16%.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    $1.24 !

    Now Brexit is cancelled, we are so much better off.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2016

    Ted Cruz must think Trump's going to win for him to be doing this. Campaigning in the gloriously named town of Prole.

    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/794137317023813632

    Cruz is funded by the same people who are funding the Trump Pres campaign. He only endorsed Trump because they threatened to cut his funding.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    IanB2 said:

    $1.24 !

    Now Brexit is cancelled, we are so much better off.

    Delayed, but not cancelled.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Glen O'Hara
    #Conservatives lead over #Labour among over-65s in today's @YouGov poll? 45% (60%-15%). Forty. Five.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    IanB2 said:

    $1.24 !

    Now Brexit is cancelled, we are so much better off.

    Carney and the services PMI did a lot of the heavy lifting as well. I think the interest rate decision and minutes signalling a possible rise is the largest factor.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    GeoffM said:

    I voted to tunnel out of the prison camp, not which bar I was going to buy my first beer in afterwards.

    Some people cared whether the tunnel came up in the forest, or in range of the machine guns...
  • GeoffM said:

    Scott_P said:

    glw said:

    It doesn't matter what they thought the destination was, the question was remain in or leave the EU, and you had to tick a box saying leave. How anyone can interpret that as anything other than a vote to leave is beyond me.

    Because the vote was based on their understanding of the destination.

    Duh
    Was it? My focus was on escape.

    I voted to tunnel out of the prison camp, not which bar I was going to buy my first beer in afterwards.
    And you trapped in the trusties' wing.

    Shame.
  • GeoffM said:

    If anyone's interested, I've just posted my initial thoughts on the Brexit judgement on my blog... www.lifestuff.xyz

    Cheers, interesting!

    Are you working on the Comments issue on your blog?
    The Facebook thing is a significant limitation for you in my opinion if you want to build up a community.
    Yes, I'm trying to find a way around it... any suggestions?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Pulpstar said:

    IanB2 said:

    $1.24 !

    Now Brexit is cancelled, we are so much better off.

    Delayed, but not cancelled.

    I'm not sure this is even a delay. Unless parliament really does vote it down and we have a GE in the middle.

  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    Some interesting subsample results......

    Con lead among:
    Men: +21
    65+: +45
    and voters wonder why pensioners get better deal from tory govt than youngsters!
  • FWIW, Clinton wins 300-238 in the Crystal Palace scenario.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Trump leading in two New Hampshire polls today! Squeeky bum time for Clinton!
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Scott_P said:

    GeoffM said:

    I voted to tunnel out of the prison camp, not which bar I was going to buy my first beer in afterwards.

    Some people cared whether the tunnel came up in the forest, or in range of the machine guns...

    #analogiesthatshouldnotbeusedonPB

  • glwglw Posts: 10,012
    Scott_P said:

    GeoffM said:

    I voted to tunnel out of the prison camp, not which bar I was going to buy my first beer in afterwards.

    Some people cared whether the tunnel came up in the forest, or in range of the machine guns...
    Yes but they were all trying to escape.
  • dr_spyn said:
    They are the ones that saw Corbyn's 21st Century Socialism acted out in 1970's...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,157
    Just read the news. Should the appeal fail, TM should go to the country.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,148
    dr_spyn said:
    Same generation as Mr Corbyn or older. We have seen (indeed, lived through) his vision of the future and do not wish to return to it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,913
    RobD said:

    Just read the news. Should the appeal fail, TM should go to the country.

    Chequers?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,157
    justin124 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I don't recall a YouGov poll from last week giving the Tories a 13% lead. Two weeks ago I believe it was 16%.
    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/1iezp6n48z/TimesResults_161025_VI_W.pdf
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    edited November 2016
    RobD said:

    Just read the news. Should the appeal fail, TM should go to the country.

    Theresa Maybe will be about as forthright as Brown was over that one.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    Listen, May and your whips: either you've got the support of the Commons and Lords for invoking Article 50 or you haven't. Introduce a bill. Quit the lawyering.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited November 2016
    tpfkar said:

    Counter-factual time:

    [snip]

    I wonder if Cameron would still be in number 10 if he'd followed that route, instead of going for his re-negotiation?

    An interesting idea. I think you might be right (except it would have been 'as well as going for his renegotiation', which did achieve some essential aims if we were going to Remain).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,913
    nunu said:

    Trump leading in two New Hampshire polls today! Squeeky bum time for Clinton!

    https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/794200634975223808
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654

    FWIW, Clinton wins 300-238 in the Crystal Palace scenario.

    Lol That wouldn't be great, am on Trump at 1-6 in Montana :)
  • glw said:

    Yes, but which Leave?
    And where is the £350/million for the NHS?

    Well at least you are acknowledging that it was a Leave, so you are better than 32% of Remainers who think black is white, up is down, left is right, on is off etc.
    Of course it was Leave, anybody's guess how many wanted Hard Brexit (10%?), EEA/EFTA (30%?), £350m to NHS (7%?), bash the Government (5%?).
    At least the 48% knew what they were voting for.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,157
    edited November 2016

    nunu said:

    Trump leading in two New Hampshire polls today! Squeeky bum time for Clinton!

    twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/794200634975223808
    Blimey. He's almost got to 35% on 538. Trump train reaching it's final destination? :D
  • GeoffM said:

    Scott_P said:

    glw said:

    It doesn't matter what they thought the destination was, the question was remain in or leave the EU, and you had to tick a box saying leave. How anyone can interpret that as anything other than a vote to leave is beyond me.

    Because the vote was based on their understanding of the destination.

    Duh
    Was it? My focus was on escape.

    I voted to tunnel out of the prison camp, not which bar I was going to buy my first beer in afterwards.
    Mine was in The Maltsters in Cheshunt.
    Mine the Wheelwrights in Goffs Oak.... and bar billiards too.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,157
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Just read the news. Should the appeal fail, TM should go to the country.

    Theresa Maybe will be about as forthright as Brown was over that one.
    I really hope not :p
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    What's the significance of leads in New Hampshire? IF Trump took it, could he afford to miss out one of the 'must win' states?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Southern rail going on strike again, apparently.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    The YouGov poll would point to a Tory majority of circa 74.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,157

    RobD said:

    Just read the news. Should the appeal fail, TM should go to the country.

    Chequers?
    Just to unwind for the weekend, you understand?
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Dixie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Jobabob said:

    JackW said:

    Arizona - Saguaro - Sample 2,229 - 29 Oct - 31 Oct

    Clinton 45 .. Trump 44

    https://www.scribd.com/document/329707080/Saguaro-Strategies-Arizona-Survey-October-29-31

    Dire poll for Trump with a big sample.

    Latino effect presumably there?

    I think it's just about possible that Trump loses some or all of AZ, CO, NV, FL and carries WI.

    Demographics.
    There's a lot of contradictory data out there. It can't all be accurate. Either Trump's national share is strengthening and he will knock off a swathe of swing states, or it isn't and he won't.
    Or, there isn't universal swing in operation.
    It is hard to judge all of the information, but I'm now as follows:

    Clinton

    319+ EVs +613
    270-318 +697
    250-269 +760
    0-250 760 less £15 per ECV below 249.

    That leaves me in profit for anything over 200 ECVs for Clinton, which requires Trump to win Virginia.
    That's a great looking book, I wish it were mine!
    AAMOI, how do you expect the POTUS election to finish?
    Clinton 213 - 323 ECVs upper, lower range.

    Trump faces significant difficulties getting over 266, if he does however then he could easily push Hillary down to 217 (Since I expect Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania all to be reasonably correlated)
    Thanks for your reply, sorry for the delay in getting back - I'm amazed by your massive 110 range in Hillary's ECVs.
    I'd narrow things down a bit and say 308 if she wins Florida and 279 if she doesn't. Virtually certain to be the next POTUS imho.
    North Carolina going red, Florida Blue.

    Could be the basis of a bet that...
    A Trump win would be as monumental as Brexit Referendum mis-calculation. Here's hoping for 2 in a row.
    Wouldn't that be 3 (GE 2015?)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    edited November 2016
    taffys said:

    What's the significance of leads in New Hampshire? IF Trump took it, could he afford to miss out one of the 'must win' states?

    No, only 4ECVs.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    Pulpstar said:

    Southern rail going on strike again, apparently.

    Why bother. They've accepted the contract.
This discussion has been closed.