Isnt it hilarious how the pro eu UK media spins the collapse of EU Canada deal as bad news for us post brexit rather than the reality that it is bad for the EU (and consequently us pre brexit) and brilliant news for us post brexit when we can conclude such deals ourselves without baggage such has having to appease a bunch of socialist wallies & loons.
No, it's not hilarious. It's bad for everyone, as is Brexit. The Walloon rejection of CETA and our rejection of the EU have the same motivations.
Is it?
Is CETA really a good deal? ; there being considerable objections to it from places other than Wallonia. Perhaps the Walloons are right to be suspicious.
Do we want multi-national companies to be able to use specially set up courts to override national sovereignty? I do not think so. Indeed much of what we object to about the EU would be re-imposed by CETA.
Just had a look at the demographics of the IDB/TIPP poll. Trump on 17% amongst African Americans.
I definitely agree that if Trump gets 17% of the African American vote he wins
Doubles and 1992 all round.
It has occurred to me that Trump is going to, by positioning himself outside the establishment and unambiguously right wing going to pick up quite a lot of afro Americans.
Many Africans find liberal racial guilt embarassing and a sign of weakness (compared with resoluteness of our ancestors) and are socially very conservative which is the opposite of clinton.
They may not like Trump but may respect him enough to vote for him.
But then he is a massive, massive birther racist. And all the other polls have him with 3-4% AA vote. When the 'n word' video finally comes out, thatd be lower.
You would be surprised how many africans will respect a resolute but racist white person over a mealy mouthed appeasing liberal.
They just see the racism as them putting their tribe first - and what right thinking person wouldnt?
I should think the last thing the Lib Dems have to worry about now is the prospect of another coalition!
In the same way that a hiker shouldn't worry about the weather?
Absolutely not in that way. More in the way that a troglodyte shouldn't worry about being hit by a meteorite.
Just to be clear, what I mean is that what the Lib Dems have to worry about is simply surviving as a national party.................. ..... Unless there is a significant improvement in their support, the boundary changes could quite easily leave them with only 3 or 4 MPs after the next election. They have to worry about survival, not continue fantasising about future coalitions.
Baxter forecast on new Boundaris is 4 LD seats. 3 of those have slim majorities or expected retirements. Farron may be the sole LD MP after that GE.
I should think the last thing the Lib Dems have to worry about now is the prospect of another coalition!
In the same way that a hiker shouldn't worry about the weather?
Absolutely not in that way. More in the way that a troglodyte shouldn't worry about being hit by a meteorite.
Just to be clear, what I mean is that what the Lib Dems have to worry about is simply surviving as a national party.................. ..... Unless there is a significant improvement in their support, the boundary changes could quite easily leave them with only 3 or 4 MPs after the next election. They have to worry about survival, not continue fantasising about future coalitions.
Baxter forecast on new Boundaris is 4 LD seats. 3 of those have slim majorities or expected retirements. Farron may be the sole LD MP after that GE.
Morning. Great article David, so true about the LDs. They got power, and should be shouting from the rooftops about their achievements in government. Rather, they all see 2010-15 as the embarrassing episode in their past they'd all like to forget about, while looking forward to the next attempt to come second in a by-election.
Give them some time. That period of government will be easier to sell after a few more years of the current one.
Good point, Mr Tokyo. The chaos and confusion that lie at the heart of the May government are not yet fully appreciated.
By 2020 it will be increasingly obvious that the competent part of the Coalition were the LibDems.
The bits that the Tories were in charge of (Home Office for example) will be recognised as the failures that they were.
Just had a look at the demographics of the IDB/TIPP poll. Trump on 17% amongst African Americans.
I definitely agree that if Trump gets 17% of the African American vote he wins
Doubles and 1992 all round.
It has occurred to me that Trump is going to, by positioning himself outside the establishment and unambiguously right wing going to pick up quite a lot of afro Americans.
Many Africans find liberal racial guilt embarassing and a sign of weakness (compared with resoluteness of our ancestors) and are socially very conservative which is the opposite of clinton.
They may not like Trump but may respect him enough to vote for him.
But then he is a massive, massive birther racist. And all the other polls have him with 3-4% AA vote. When the 'n word' video finally comes out, thatd be lower.
You would be surprised how many africans will respect a resolute but racist white person over a mealy mouthed appeasing liberal.
They just see the racism as them putting their tribe first - and what right thinking person wouldnt?
Are you African Paul? You seem to know so much about what African Americans think.
I should think the last thing the Lib Dems have to worry about now is the prospect of another coalition!
In the same way that a hiker shouldn't worry about the weather?
Absolutely not in that way. More in the way that a troglodyte shouldn't worry about being hit by a meteorite.
Just to be clear, what I mean is that what the Lib Dems have to worry about is simply surviving as a national party.................. ..... Unless there is a significant improvement in their support, the boundary changes could quite easily leave them with only 3 or 4 MPs after the next election. They have to worry about survival, not continue fantasising about future coalitions.
Baxter forecast on new Boundaris is 4 LD seats. 3 of those have slim majorities or expected retirements. Farron may be the sole LD MP after that GE.
I should think the last thing the Lib Dems have to worry about now is the prospect of another coalition!
In the same way that a hiker shouldn't worry about the weather?
Absolutely not in that way. More in the way that a troglodyte shouldn't worry about being hit by a meteorite.
Just to be clear, what I mean is that what the Lib Dems have to worry about is simply surviving as a national party.................. ..... Unless there is a significant improvement in their support, the boundary changes could quite easily leave them with only 3 or 4 MPs after the next election. They have to worry about survival, not continue fantasising about future coalitions.
Baxter forecast on new Boundaris is 4 LD seats. 3 of those have slim majorities or expected retirements. Farron may be the sole LD MP after that GE.
Dream On
Lib Dems new name = The One Lib Dem Party. TOLDP. One MEP, One Welsh AM, One London AM and next........ One MP!
In 1975, there was no mention of the four freedoms in the discussions. Certainly nothing about total freedom of movement. When did completely open borders become a legal requirement for EU membership?
In 1975, there was no mention of the four freedoms in the discussions. Certainly nothing about total freedom of movement. When did completely open borders become a legal requirement for EU membership?
Was it Maastricht or the Lisbon treaty?
I must have blinked.
Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too.
In 1975, there was no mention of the four freedoms in the discussions. Certainly nothing about total freedom of movement. When did completely open borders become a legal requirement for EU membership?
Was it Maastricht or the Lisbon treaty?
I must have blinked.
The four freedoms date back to the initial founding of the EEC. However, while that meant you could work abroad, there was no ability to claim benefits, and there were often administrative hurdles, until the Maastricht Treaty.
Couple of people asked on PB yesterday about the Internet outage that had taken down sites like Twitter late afternoon.
This is an interesting read - seems like it could have been a hack of CCTV and camcorder devices and other internet-enabled devices with poor security.
I should think the last thing the Lib Dems have to worry about now is the prospect of another coalition!
In the same way that a hiker shouldn't worry about the weather?
Absolutely not in that way. More in the way that a troglodyte shouldn't worry about being hit by a meteorite.
Just to be clear, what I mean is that what the Lib Dems have to worry about is simply surviving as a national party.................. ..... Unless there is a significant improvement in their support, the boundary changes could quite easily leave them with only 3 or 4 MPs after the next election. They have to worry about survival, not continue fantasising about future coalitions.
Baxter forecast on new Boundaris is 4 LD seats. 3 of those have slim majorities or expected retirements. Farron may be the sole LD MP after that GE.
Dream On
Lib Dems new name = The One Lib Dem Party. TOLDP. One MEP, One Welsh AM, One London AM and next........ One MP!
I don't think they have even a single London Assembly member as they lost theirs by about 600 votes to UKIP.
In 1975, there was no mention of the four freedoms in the discussions. Certainly nothing about total freedom of movement. When did completely open borders become a legal requirement for EU membership?
Was it Maastricht or the Lisbon treaty?
I must have blinked.
The four freedoms date back to the initial founding of the EEC. However, while that meant you could work abroad, there was no ability to claim benefits, and there were often administrative hurdles, until the Maastricht Treaty.
Yep. It was made explicit in 1992 when we were all made European Union citizens without anyone asking our permission.
I should think the last thing the Lib Dems have to worry about now is the prospect of another coalition!
In the same way that a hiker shouldn't worry about the weather?
Absolutely not in that way. More in the way that a troglodyte shouldn't worry about being hit by a meteorite.
Just to be clear, what I mean is that what the Lib Dems have to worry about is simply surviving as a national party.................. ..... Unless there is a significant improvement in their support, the boundary changes could quite easily leave them with only 3 or 4 MPs after the next election. They have to worry about survival, not continue fantasising about future coalitions.
Baxter forecast on new Boundaris is 4 LD seats. 3 of those have slim majorities or expected retirements. Farron may be the sole LD MP after that GE.
In the Holyrood elections, they got 68% of the vote in Orkney & Shetland. It would require a staggering worsening of their fortunes to lose that.
In 1975, there was no mention of the four freedoms in the discussions. Certainly nothing about total freedom of movement. When did completely open borders become a legal requirement for EU membership?
Was it Maastricht or the Lisbon treaty?
I must have blinked.
Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too.
Well strictly it was John Major's act since it was 2 years after Thatcher had left power.
I think the Lib Dems can remain very competitive in university cities, and wealthy districts that strongly supported Remain, and that's where they should focus.
The FDP strategy.
It gets them a dozen MPs.
May's targeting of working class votes makes it more difficult for the LibDems to recover in those remote, rural areas they have traditionally done well in.
It's a start. Cambridge, Bath, Richmond (if Zac Goldsmith stands down), Twickenham, Cardiff Central, Edinburgh West, Guildford, SW Surrey, Eastleigh, St. Albans, Winchester, Kingston and Surbiton, could be viable prospects for them.
SW Surrey ??? I don't see much chance in Guildford, Eastleigh and Winchester either in the next decade either.
St Albans is more interesting - it had the highest Remain vote in England outside London, Brighton, Oxford and Cambridge. Its a surprise that the LibDems have never done well there - Labour's win there in 1997 was one of the most remarkable even for that year.
St albans is full of sanctimonious twits who think they have a right to a seat on a peak hour train and honk 'move down inside please' at every opportunity' while thinking it clever to own a vastly overpriced house, not realising that if they moved to Bedford they could get a much bigger house cheaply and always get a seat even though the journey isnt much longer or expensive.
There are of course some good sorts too like our own Verulamium of course.
Fortunately there wasnt an election there yesterday as most of the inhabitants are currently in London still trying to get home after the train service collapsed.
There was a by election in St Albans on Thursday , Lib Dem hold with increased majority
That because all the Tories were stuck at St Pancras in the chaos
LOL . The Lib Dem vote share in the ward was the highest since 2003
Just had a look at the demographics of the IDB/TIPP poll. Trump on 17% amongst African Americans.
I definitely agree that if Trump gets 17% of the African American vote he wins
Doubles and 1992 all round.
It has occurred to me that Trump is going to, by positioning himself outside the establishment and unambiguously right wing going to pick up quite a lot of afro Americans.
Many Africans find liberal racial guilt embarassing and a sign of weakness (compared with resoluteness of our ancestors) and are socially very conservative which is the opposite of clinton.
They may not like Trump but may respect him enough to vote for him.
But then he is a massive, massive birther racist. And all the other polls have him with 3-4% AA vote. When the 'n word' video finally comes out, thatd be lower.
You would be surprised how many africans will respect a resolute but racist white person over a mealy mouthed appeasing liberal.
They just see the racism as them putting their tribe first - and what right thinking person wouldnt?
Well Clinton has been accused by a colleague of using the 'n' word privately which, since she is prostituting herself for their votes is the rankest hypocrisy.
Just had a look at the demographics of the IDB/TIPP poll. Trump on 17% amongst African Americans.
I definitely agree that if Trump gets 17% of the African American vote he wins
Doubles and 1992 all round.
It has occurred to me that Trump is going to, by positioning himself outside the establishment and unambiguously right wing going to pick up quite a lot of afro Americans.
Many Africans find liberal racial guilt embarassing and a sign of weakness (compared with resoluteness of our ancestors) and are socially very conservative which is the opposite of clinton.
They may not like Trump but may respect him enough to vote for him.
But then he is a massive, massive birther racist. And all the other polls have him with 3-4% AA vote. When the 'n word' video finally comes out, thatd be lower.
You would be surprised how many africans will respect a resolute but racist white person over a mealy mouthed appeasing liberal.
They just see the racism as them putting their tribe first - and what right thinking person wouldnt?
Are you African Paul? You seem to know so much about what African Americans think.
Isnt it hilarious how the pro eu UK media spins the collapse of EU Canada deal as bad news for us post brexit rather than the reality that it is bad for the EU (and consequently us pre brexit) and brilliant news for us post brexit when we can conclude such deals ourselves without baggage such has having to appease a bunch of socialist wallies & loons.
No, it's not hilarious. It's bad for everyone, as is Brexit. The Walloon rejection of CETA and our rejection of the EU have the same motivations.
Is it?
Is CETA really a good deal? ; there being considerable objections to it from places other than Wallonia. Perhaps the Walloons are right to be suspicious.
Do we want multi-national companies to be able to use specially set up courts to override national sovereignty? I do not think so. Indeed much of what we object to about the EU would be re-imposed by CETA.
In 1975, there was no mention of the four freedoms in the discussions. Certainly nothing about total freedom of movement. When did completely open borders become a legal requirement for EU membership?
Was it Maastricht or the Lisbon treaty?
I must have blinked.
It was still the Common Market in those days. I can remember in 1975 as a 15 year old hearing someone in a suit saying that it would enable people and goods to flow around freely across the continent without restrictions. It wasn't put in precisely the same terms but it was certainly at least an implication. I am afraid I can't remember who was speaking or much else, and I suppose it is possible that it was only one speech in one drafty village hall. But I would have thought that it was pretty widely discussed elsewhere. I at any rate came away with the idea that the vote was mainly about allowing free trade in Europe, and those 4 freedoms express that idea pretty clearly. It seemed like a good idea to me then. It still does.
I should think the last thing the Lib Dems have to worry about now is the prospect of another coalition!
In the same way that a hiker shouldn't worry about the weather?
Absolutely not in that way. More in the way that a troglodyte shouldn't worry about being hit by a meteorite.
Just to be clear, what I mean is that what the Lib Dems have to worry about is simply surviving as a national party.................. ..... Unless there is a significant improvement in their support, the boundary changes could quite easily leave them with only 3 or 4 MPs after the next election. They have to worry about survival, not continue fantasising about future coalitions.
Baxter forecast on new Boundaris is 4 LD seats. 3 of those have slim majorities or expected retirements. Farron may be the sole LD MP after that GE.
In the Holyrood elections, they got 68% of the vote in Orkney & Shetland. It would require a staggering worsening of their fortunes to lose that.
Just had a look at the demographics of the IDB/TIPP poll. Trump on 17% amongst African Americans.
I definitely agree that if Trump gets 17% of the African American vote he wins
Doubles and 1992 all round.
It has occurred to me that Trump is going to, by positioning himself outside the establishment and unambiguously right wing going to pick up quite a lot of afro Americans.
Many Africans find liberal racial guilt embarassing and a sign of weakness (compared with resoluteness of our ancestors) and are socially very conservative which is the opposite of clinton.
They may not like Trump but may respect him enough to vote for him.
But then he is a massive, massive birther racist. And all the other polls have him with 3-4% AA vote. When the 'n word' video finally comes out, thatd be lower.
You would be surprised how many africans will respect a resolute but racist white person over a mealy mouthed appeasing liberal.
They just see the racism as them putting their tribe first - and what right thinking person wouldnt?
Well Clinton has been accused by a colleague of using the 'n' word privately which, since she is prostituting herself for their votes is the rankest hypocrisy.
Yes they are not daft. They know that most people behave like that from time to time and know hypocracy when they see it. Better someone who makes no bones about putting their white tribe first, than someone who makes mealy mouthed noises to them and then stabs them in the back because they too will put their white tribe first when the chips are down, just more deviously.
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
I've no problems with your views. I was 25 and more politically alert than I am now. That's why the deception in 1975 (overtly or by omission) rankled so much.
Just had a look at the demographics of the IDB/TIPP poll. Trump on 17% amongst African Americans.
I definitely agree that if Trump gets 17% of the African American vote he wins
Doubles and 1992 all round.
It has occurred to me that Trump is going to, by positioning himself outside the establishment and unambiguously right wing going to pick up quite a lot of afro Americans.
Many Africans find liberal racial guilt embarassing and a sign of weakness (compared with resoluteness of our ancestors) and are socially very conservative which is the opposite of clinton.
They may not like Trump but may respect him enough to vote for him.
But then he is a massive, massive birther racist. And all the other polls have him with 3-4% AA vote. When the 'n word' video finally comes out, thatd be lower.
You would be surprised how many africans will respect a resolute but racist white person over a mealy mouthed appeasing liberal.
They just see the racism as them putting their tribe first - and what right thinking person wouldnt?
Well Clinton has been accused by a colleague of using the 'n' word privately which, since she is prostituting herself for their votes is the rankest hypocrisy.
Yes they are not daft. They know that most people behave like that from time to time and know hypocracy when they see it. Better someone who makes no bones about putting their white tribe first, than someone who makes mealy mouthed noises to them and then stabs them in the back because they too will put their white tribe first when the chips are down, just more deviously.
Well thats a massive assumption.
A baseless accusation against clinton with no evidence cant compare with Trumps 8 years of birtherism.
You are right, they are not daft. Hence why they wont vote for a massive, open racist like Trump.
Just had a look at the demographics of the IDB/TIPP poll. Trump on 17% amongst African Americans.
I definitely agree that if Trump gets 17% of the African American vote he wins
Doubles and 1992 all round.
It has occurred to me that Trump is going to, by positioning himself outside the establishment and unambiguously right wing going to pick up quite a lot of afro Americans.
Many Africans find liberal racial guilt embarassing and a sign of weakness (compared with resoluteness of our ancestors) and are socially very conservative which is the opposite of clinton.
They may not like Trump but may respect him enough to vote for him.
But then he is a massive, massive birther racist. And all the other polls have him with 3-4% AA vote. When the 'n word' video finally comes out, thatd be lower.
You would be surprised how many africans will respect a resolute but racist white person over a mealy mouthed appeasing liberal.
They just see the racism as them putting their tribe first - and what right thinking person wouldnt?
Well Clinton has been accused by a colleague of using the 'n' word privately which, since she is prostituting herself for their votes is the rankest hypocrisy.
Yes they are not daft. They know that most people behave like that from time to time and know hypocracy when they see it. Better someone who makes no bones about putting their white tribe first, than someone who makes mealy mouthed noises to them and then stabs them in the back because they too will put their white tribe first when the chips are down, just more deviously.
Well thats a massive assumption.
A baseless accusation against clinton with no evidence cant compare with Trumps 8 years of birtherism.
You are right, they are not daft. Hence why they wont vote for a massive, open racist like Trump.
A lot wont. Some will. The extent of that some is important.
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
Yesterday I had had a lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up. The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
The more Remoaning that I hear, the more proud I am of the will of the British people.
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
Their noses had already been cut off by the likes of your advertising friends.
Now your advertising friends have had their noses cut off in return.
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
It is a problem that started when national service ended. Until then the 'elite' had to spend two years living with, often being responsible for and depending for their lives upon the sons of the lumpen proletariat.
The fact that the elite ever dared risk the referendum shows how out of touch they were. They saw it as inconceivable that out would win as no right thinking person would do such a thing. They were wrong and now they belatedly realise many of their most cherished values are not shared with the many and are angry - and a bit anxious about the future.
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
The more Remoaning that I hear, the more proud I am of the will of the British people.
Yep. It does genuinely please me that some of the more vociferous instinctive Remoaners have turned out to be such bad losers. It confirms what I thought of them before.
On the other hand those like Richard Nabavi who were strongly for Remain but conducted themselves throughout in a measured manner and who have continued that afterwards deserve nothing but respect and a certain amount of sympathy as well. I hope their concerns are proved wrong as they do not deserve the outcome they fear.
Yesterday I had had a lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up. The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit
Yeah, and that's why you lost.
Where do these Brexit morons live? Hartlepool isn't that big
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
It is a problem that started when national service ended. Until then the 'elite' had to spend two years living with, often being responsible for and depending for their lives upon the sons of the lumpen proletariat.
The fact that the elite ever dared risk the referendum shows how out of touch they were. They saw it as inconceivable that out would win as no right thinking person would do such a thing. They were wrong and now they belatedly realise many of their most cherished values are not shared with the many and are angry - and a bit anxious about the future.
What a bizarre post. You do realise that many of the 'elite' are themselves the sons of the 'lumpen proletariat'?
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
The more Remoaning that I hear, the more proud I am of the will of the British people.
Yep. It does genuinely please me that some of the more vociferous instinctive Remoaners have turned out to be such bad losers. It confirms what I thought of them before.
On the other hand those like Richard Nabavi who were strongly for Remain but conducted themselves throughout in a measured manner and who have continued that afterwards deserve nothing but respect and a certain amount of sympathy as well. I hope their concerns are proved wrong as they do not deserve the outcome they fear.
LOL. And if the result had been the other way, you would have fully accepted it and stopped campaigning for Brexit?
Is it not the case that because of their very weak performance in 2015 the LibDems will be denied the same level of coverage by the BBC and other broadcasters in 2020? Fewer PPBs too!
Yesterday I had had a lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up. The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
The more Remoaning that I hear, the more proud I am of the will of the British people.
Yep. It does genuinely please me that some of the more vociferous instinctive Remoaners have turned out to be such bad losers. It confirms what I thought of them before.
On the other hand those like Richard Nabavi who were strongly for Remain but conducted themselves throughout in a measured manner and who have continued that afterwards deserve nothing but respect and a certain amount of sympathy as well. I hope their concerns are proved wrong as they do not deserve the outcome they fear.
LOL. And if the result had been the other way, you would have fully accepted it and stopped campaigning for Brexit?
I had already said that prior to the vote. I would have believed it a mistake and actually would have been confident in.my predictions that the EU was converging so fast that we would have been forced out far more painfully within a decade. But I would not personally have continue to campaign as I would have considered it disrespectful to try to revisit the question for a decade or so.
Yesterday I had had a lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up. The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit
Yeah, and that's why you lost.
Where do these Brexit morons live? Hartlepool isn't that big
They live in all those places you look down on and all the other places you have never heard of but would look down on if you had.
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
I had already said that prior to the vote. I would have believed it a mistake and actually would have been confident in.my predictions that the EU was converging so fast that we would have been forced out far more painfully within a decade. But I would not personally have continue to campaign as I would have considered it disrespectful to try to revisit the question for a decade or so.
Is wanting to stay in the single market not in some sense revisiting the question? The people voted out in response to a disreputable campaign which was centred on immigration. If you think we can pick and chose which bits of the EU we should leave your democratic moral conscience is no purer than anyone else's.
Yesterday I had had a lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up. The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit
Yeah, and that's why you lost.
Where do these Brexit morons live? Hartlepool isn't that big
Most of England and Wales, outside of Inner London.
I should think the last thing the Lib Dems have to worry about now is the prospect of another coalition!
In the same way that a hiker shouldn't worry about the weather?
Absolutely not in that way. More in the way that a troglodyte shouldn't worry about being hit by a meteorite.
Just to be clear, what I mean is that what the Lib Dems have to worry about is simply surviving as a national party.................. ..... Unless there is a significant improvement in their support, the boundary changes could quite easily leave them with only 3 or 4 MPs after the next election. They have to worry about survival, not continue fantasising about future coalitions.
Baxter forecast on new Boundaris is 4 LD seats. 3 of those have slim majorities or expected retirements. Farron may be the sole LD MP after that GE.
Dream On
Lib Dems new name = The One Lib Dem Party. TOLDP. One MEP, One Welsh AM, One London AM and next........ One MP!
I don't think they have even a single London Assembly member as they lost theirs by about 600 votes to UKIP.
I had already said that prior to the vote. I would have believed it a mistake and actually would have been confident in.my predictions that the EU was converging so fast that we would have been forced out far more painfully within a decade. But I would not personally have continue to campaign as I would have considered it disrespectful to try to revisit the question for a decade or so.
Is wanting to stay in the single market not in some sense revisiting the question? The people voted out in response to a disreputable campaign which was centred on immigration. If you think we can pick and chose which bits of the EU we should leave your democratic moral conscience is no purer than anyone else's.
If as you say the leave campaign was centred on immigration, it is reasonable to conclude that people voted out because they wanted to change immigration numbers, something we can't do with four freedoms, and ergo something we can't do in the single market.
I had already said that prior to the vote. I would have believed it a mistake and actually would have been confident in.my predictions that the EU was converging so fast that we would have been forced out far more painfully within a decade. But I would not personally have continue to campaign as I would have considered it disrespectful to try to revisit the question for a decade or so.
Is wanting to stay in the single market not in some sense revisiting the question? The people voted out in response to a disreputable campaign which was centred on immigration. If you think we can pick and chose which bits of the EU we should leave your democratic moral conscience is no purer than anyone else's.
If as you say the leave campaign was centred on immigration, it is reasonable to conclude that people voted out because they wanted to change immigration numbers, something we can't do with four freedoms, and ergo something we can't do in the single market.
Which Richard is in favour of, ergo not a democrat.
Yesterday I had had a lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up. The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit
Yeah, and that's why you lost.
Where do these Brexit morons live? Hartlepool isn't that big
Most of England and Wales, outside of Inner London.
Just as school kids have trips out to the country to look at fields perhaps Inner Londoners should have visits to Blueland - "Here is an industrial estate which has buildings called factories in which they make the things you buy in the shops and later we'll be visiting a housing estate where people own their own semi-detached house. Yes that's right Jemima people here actually own their own homes if you can believe it."
I had already said that prior to the vote. I would have believed it a mistake and actually would have been confident in.my predictions that the EU was converging so fast that we would have been forced out far more painfully within a decade. But I would not personally have continue to campaign as I would have considered it disrespectful to try to revisit the question for a decade or so.
Is wanting to stay in the single market not in some sense revisiting the question? The people voted out in response to a disreputable campaign which was centred on immigration. If you think we can pick and chose which bits of the EU we should leave your democratic moral conscience is no purer than anyone else's.
If as you say the leave campaign was centred on immigration, it is reasonable to conclude that people voted out because they wanted to change immigration numbers, something we can't do with four freedoms, and ergo something we can't do in the single market.
Which Richard is in favour of, ergo not a democrat.
Poppycock. At the last GE when the Tories won, did you throw in the towel and say that was it, the people had spoken, Tory governments for every more ? Or did you say, okay they won that one, better start getting it together to campaign and win the next GE ?
You can support a view, find that the people disagree, accept that, and after a decent interval, start campaigning for your view or the closest available in the new circumstances. In the current context, trying to wreck the government's attempts to leave the EU in accordance with the referendum is thoroughly disreputable, its entirely respectable to wait until after we leave the EU and campaign to rejoin.
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
I can picture that luncheon of old rich divorced bores in an expensive Soho osteria. I doubt that they're capable of genuine anger, just going through the expected emotions.
Is it not the case that because of their very weak performance in 2015 the LibDems will be denied the same level of coverage by the BBC and other broadcasters in 2020? Fewer PPBs too!
I think that depends on their opinion polling in the next few years.
Yesterday I had had a lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up. The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit
Yeah, and that's why you lost.
Where do these Brexit morons live? Hartlepool isn't that big
Most of England and Wales, outside of Inner London.
Just as school kids have trips out to the country to look at fields perhaps Inner Londoners should have visits to Blueland - "Here is an industrial estate which has buildings called factories in which they make the things you buy in the shops and later we'll be visiting a housing estate where people own their own semi-detached house. Yes that's right Jemima people here actually own their own homes if you can believe it."
This is a supermarket, it sells amongst other things, breakfast cereal and milk, yes that's right Tarquin, here people don't pay almost five pounds to eat it in a cafe, some how they get by without 30 different types of milk and 20 different toppings. Do you see that trolley there ? that is what people do when they can't get their stuff delivered by Amazon Fresh. Yes, I know it involves moving away from the computer screen for a few minutes, somehow people manage.
I should think the last thing the Lib Dems have to worry about now is the prospect of another coalition!
In the same way that a hiker shouldn't worry about the weather?
Absolutely not in that way. More in the way that a troglodyte shouldn't worry about being hit by a meteorite.
Just to be clear, what I mean is that what the Lib Dems have to worry about is simply surviving as a national party.................. ..... Unless there is a significant improvement in their support, the boundary changes could quite easily leave them with only 3 or 4 MPs after the next election. They have to worry about survival, not continue fantasising about future coalitions.
Baxter forecast on new Boundaris is 4 LD seats. 3 of those have slim majorities or expected retirements. Farron may be the sole LD MP after that GE.
Dream On
Lib Dems new name = The One Lib Dem Party. TOLDP. One MEP, One Welsh AM, One London AM and next........ One MP!
I don't think they have even a single London Assembly member as they lost theirs by about 600 votes to UKIP.
Caroline Pidgeon
So she is. It must have been the second seat that was lost to ukip by 600 votes.
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
Quite amusing to think that people such as yourself directly contributed to Remain losing.
Yesterday I had had a lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up. The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit
Yeah, and that's why you lost.
Where do these Brexit morons live? Hartlepool isn't that big
Most of England and Wales, outside of Inner London.
Just as school kids have trips out to the country to look at fields perhaps Inner Londoners should have visits to Blueland - "Here is an industrial estate which has buildings called factories in which they make the things you buy in the shops and later we'll be visiting a housing estate where people own their own semi-detached house. Yes that's right Jemima people here actually own their own homes if you can believe it."
This is a supermarket, it sells amongst other things, breakfast cereal and milk, yes that's right Tarquin, here people don't pay almost five pounds to eat it in a cafe, some how they get by without 30 different types of milk and 20 different toppings. Do you see that trolley there ? that is what people do when they can't get their stuff delivered by Amazon Fresh. Yes, I know it involves moving away from the computer screen for a few minutes, somehow people manage.
Yet those services that Tarquin's dad created: the fintech app, or the cloud platform, they are what we export these days.
Yesterday I had had a lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up. The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit
Yeah, and that's why you lost.
Where do these Brexit morons live? Hartlepool isn't that big
Most of England and Wales, outside of Inner London.
I was in Northampton a few weeks ago with my wife, to whom I described it as "an ordinary provincial town of the sort where most people in England live".
In the current context, trying to wreck the government's attempts to leave the EU in accordance with the referendum is thoroughly disreputable, its entirely respectable to wait until after we leave the EU and campaign to rejoin.
To leave the EU in accordance with the referendum means hard Brexit. That's hard luck for the supporters of Leave who didn't want that outcome but that doesn't make then more virtuous than anyone else who would seek to influence the future direction of policy or opinion.
Yesterday I had had a lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up. The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit
Yeah, and that's why you lost.
Where do these Brexit morons live? Hartlepool isn't that big
Most of England and Wales, outside of Inner London.
Just as school kids have trips out to the country to look at fields perhaps Inner Londoners should have visits to Blueland - "Here is an industrial estate which has buildings called factories in which they make the things you buy in the shops and later we'll be visiting a housing estate where people own their own semi-detached house. Yes that's right Jemima people here actually own their own homes if you can believe it."
This is a supermarket, it sells amongst other things, breakfast cereal and milk, yes that's right Tarquin, here people don't pay almost five pounds to eat it in a cafe, some how they get by without 30 different types of milk and 20 different toppings. Do you see that trolley there ? that is what people do when they can't get their stuff delivered by Amazon Fresh. Yes, I know it involves moving away from the computer screen for a few minutes, somehow people manage.
Yet those services that Tarquin's dad created: the fintech app, or the cloud platform, they are what we export these days.
and ... ?
Someone with that sort of intellect and financial reach should be ensuring their children become useful citizens of the world, not conceited tossers eating overpriced breakfast cereal
I had already said that prior to the vote. I would have believed it a mistake and actually would have been confident in.my predictions that the EU was converging so fast that we would have been forced out far more painfully within a decade. But I would not personally have continue to campaign as I would have considered it disrespectful to try to revisit the question for a decade or so.
Is wanting to stay in the single market not in some sense revisiting the question? The people voted out in response to a disreputable campaign which was centred on immigration. If you think we can pick and chose which bits of the EU we should leave your democratic moral conscience is no purer than anyone else's.
Not really. The vote was specifically on leaving the EU. Had people like me and RCS campaigned on immigration and then changed our tune after the vote that would be a different matter. But we were consistent before and after in our belief that the EEA route was the best for the country. It is not a case of picking and choosing as there is already a viable EEA route available if the UK Government wish to take it.
Moreover I have said a number of times on here that in effect I have already lost no matter who won the vote as it appears the majority view in Government is for immigration beating the single market. I have accepted that may well be the outcome. Not the best I could have hopped for but still better than staying in the EU.
Yesterday I had had a lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up. The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit
Yeah, and that's why you lost.
Where do these Brexit morons live? Hartlepool isn't that big
Most of England and Wales, outside of Inner London.
I was in Northampton a few weeks ago with my wife, to whom I described it as "an ordinary provincial town of the sort where most people in England live".
In the current context, trying to wreck the government's attempts to leave the EU in accordance with the referendum is thoroughly disreputable, its entirely respectable to wait until after we leave the EU and campaign to rejoin.
To leave the EU in accordance with the referendum means hard Brexit. That's hard luck for the supporters of Leave who didn't want that outcome but that doesn't make then more virtuous than anyone else who would seek to influence the future direction of policy or opinion.
Just about every politician in the campaign said leave would involve leaving the single market, anyone who hadn't clocked that basic fact by the end of the campaign wasn't paying much attention. Of course the reality is that almost everyone got this basic fact, but remainers have conjured up with idea of hard and soft BrExit as a vehicle to try and stop it happening, "soft BrExit" is euphemism for "remain".
In the current context, trying to wreck the government's attempts to leave the EU in accordance with the referendum is thoroughly disreputable, its entirely respectable to wait until after we leave the EU and campaign to rejoin.
To leave the EU in accordance with the referendum means hard Brexit. That's hard luck for the supporters of Leave who didn't want that outcome but that doesn't make then more virtuous than anyone else who would seek to influence the future direction of policy or opinion.
Absolutely not true, That is based on the false contention that immigration was the sole reason for people voting for Brexit which is clearly garbage. Indeed polls both before and after the vote showed an overall majority in favour of an EEA type arrangement rather than a hard Brexit. As I remember I wrote a whole thread header on it.
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
It is a problem that started when national service ended. Until then the 'elite' had to spend two years living with, often being responsible for and depending for their lives upon the sons of the lumpen proletariat.
The fact that the elite ever dared risk the referendum shows how out of touch they were. They saw it as inconceivable that out would win as no right thinking person would do such a thing. They were wrong and now they belatedly realise many of their most cherished values are not shared with the many and are angry - and a bit anxious about the future.
I do not share you views on National Service.
However, there is something in the pride with which the new upper 10,000 hate the lower orders.
I remember at school the following - a fellow pupil being rude to the taxi driver that had brought him to the school to start term. It was a very condescending rudeness to - the sense of "you stupid peasant" was very strong.
Shocked, a fellow pupil commented that his mother would have beaten him until the cane broke for that kind of rudeness to a servant. Pupil A was the son of someone moderately senior in The Blob. Pupil B was the son of very, very old money - made their pile in Hot Trodd IIRC.
In the current context, trying to wreck the government's attempts to leave the EU in accordance with the referendum is thoroughly disreputable, its entirely respectable to wait until after we leave the EU and campaign to rejoin.
To leave the EU in accordance with the referendum means hard Brexit. That's hard luck for the supporters of Leave who didn't want that outcome but that doesn't make then more virtuous than anyone else who would seek to influence the future direction of policy or opinion.
Absolutely not true, That is based on the false contention that immigration was the sole reason for people voting for Brexit which is clearly garbage. Indeed polls both before and after the vote showed an overall majority in favour of an EEA type arrangement rather than a hard Brexit. As I remember I wrote a whole thread header on it.
Hard BrExit or No BrExit, that choice does not appear to be on the table.
Doubtless we shall have something new to talk about if and when this evidence comes to light. Question number 1: if Continuity Remain is both so popular and a priority, then why are the Lib Dems not yet polling in the mid-twenties?
Has any research been done on the average intelligence of leave v remain voters?.
What difference would it make if there had, are you proposing some sort of reduced voting status for "stupid people" ?
I wasn't suggesting anything, I merely asked if there had been any research. I assume you must have voted to leave, judging from the immediacy of your response.
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd!
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
As a Remainer, I blame people such as yourself for the result. If you radiate contempt for an entire class of people long enough, they will notice in the end.
You and your ilk have forgotten that you cannot govern a democracy by fiat - declaring in law your wishes and expecting everyone to follow has an inevitable result.
Mirabeau said, ' When the people complain, the people are always right.'
Think about that. For the love of {deity}.
Otherwise you are handing the future... not to Trump, the stupid blowhard. But to Trump's successor - the smart version. Jörg Haider, probably
An interesting article from David Herdson : thanks.
It is, however, predicated on one assumption: the Lib Dems want to become large enough to form part of a Coalition Government again..
I see no evidence of such wishes, nor - and here I agree with the article - any evidence of the leadership needed to do so. Rather the reverse.. Harking for a return to the EU past is an impossible dream in my view..
So destined for non greatness..
It depends on your view of politics.
Politics is about power, and getting things done. On that basis it is easy to conclude that the LibDems haven't been successful for many decades.
However politics is also about promoting ideas and seeing them become policy. Farage and UKIP have shown how holding conventional power isn't essential to achieve this.
And when you look back across the history of the LibDems, the party has very often been the champion of ideas that have eventually become mainstream (e.g abortion reform, LGBT rights, green politics, devolution) or probably will do so relatively soon (e.g. votes at 16, soft drug liberalisation). If you look back across the post-WWII years the LibDems have contributed at least as much to implemented policy as have the big parties. It isn't a coincidence that the word "liberal" is often attached to UK government policy since the 1960s.
On this basis liberalism has (at least until June) been very successful indeed. It's just that, because their ideas and philosophy are shared broadly rather than deeply, Britain's political system has (ex 2010-15) worked to exclude them from holding power directly.
Doubtless we shall have something new to talk about if and when this evidence comes to light. Question number 1: if Continuity Remain is both so popular and a priority, then why are the Lib Dems not yet polling in the mid-twenties?
Because PBer's, Twitterati, and political obsessives that answer opinion polls think that Leave/Remain is what obsesses the rest of the population every moment of the day, I think they might be disappointed. This poll result is nonsense in the same way that four times as many people responding to YouGov polls watched the referendum debates as did members of the general public.
Has any research been done on the average intelligence of leave v remain voters?.
What difference would it make if there had, are you proposing some sort of reduced voting status for "stupid people" ?
I wasn't suggesting anything, I merely asked if there had been any research. I assume you must have voted to leave, judging from the immediacy of your response.
Doubtless we shall have something new to talk about if and when this evidence comes to light. Question number 1: if Continuity Remain is both so popular and a priority, then why are the Lib Dems not yet polling in the mid-twenties?
I find that very encouraging. 50% of Remain voters would not, therefore, support a STOP BREXIT party in preference to their normal choice.
In the current context, trying to wreck the government's attempts to leave the EU in accordance with the referendum is thoroughly disreputable, its entirely respectable to wait until after we leave the EU and campaign to rejoin.
To leave the EU in accordance with the referendum means hard Brexit. That's hard luck for the supporters of Leave who didn't want that outcome but that doesn't make then more virtuous than anyone else who would seek to influence the future direction of policy or opinion.
Absolutely not true, That is based on the false contention that immigration was the sole reason for people voting for Brexit which is clearly garbage. Indeed polls both before and after the vote showed an overall majority in favour of an EEA type arrangement rather than a hard Brexit. As I remember I wrote a whole thread header on it.
Three Quidder mentioned Northampton. Forget the campaigns - the only reason 58% of people voted for Leave is because if you walk down Abington Street you will hear as much Polish being spoken as English. It was about immigration.
Interesting that it is now 90 years since the Conservatives gained a Liberal/Lib Dem seat in a parliamentary by election ( Combined English Universities 1926 )
Wow.
You must be on to something here.
So the Liberals are in majority Govt riding high in the polls and the Tories struggling for survival on 8 seats, right?
No - the situation is the reverse.
Exactly. It tends to be the party of government that loses by-elections. QED.
Doubtless we shall have something new to talk about if and when this evidence comes to light. Question number 1: if Continuity Remain is both so popular and a priority, then why are the Lib Dems not yet polling in the mid-twenties?
I find that very encouraging. 50% of Remain voters would not, therefore, support a STOP BREXIT party in preference to their normal choice.
Good afternoon, everyon.
That also means that 77% are of the other persuasion
The interesting thing to poll would be whether the Lib Dems on a Stop Brexit ticket underperform the hypothetical Stop Brexit party. If so the brand is still toxic.
Doubtless we shall have something new to talk about if and when this evidence comes to light. Question number 1: if Continuity Remain is both so popular and a priority, then why are the Lib Dems not yet polling in the mid-twenties?
Just pull the trigger on Article 50, Theresa. Do it next week. Let's see how many of these losers would actually back Rejoining the EU.
Doubtless we shall have something new to talk about if and when this evidence comes to light. Question number 1: if Continuity Remain is both so popular and a priority, then why are the Lib Dems not yet polling in the mid-twenties?
It takes a while for the penny to drop, Mr Rook. But watch this space....
Is it not the case that because of their very weak performance in 2015 the LibDems will be denied the same level of coverage by the BBC and other broadcasters in 2020? Fewer PPBs too!
I think that depends on their opinion polling in the next few years.
I don't think it does - on that basis UKIP would have been entitled to at least the same coverage as the LibDems back in 2015. I am pretty sure the key determinant is performance at the previous General Election.
Is it not the case that because of their very weak performance in 2015 the LibDems will be denied the same level of coverage by the BBC and other broadcasters in 2020? Fewer PPBs too!
I think that depends on their opinion polling in the next few years.
I don't think it does - on that basis UKIP would have been entitled to at least the same coverage as the LibDems back in 2015. I am pretty sure the key determinant is performance at the previous General Election.
You may have a point; if the 2020 debates take place, they’re likely to be between Con, Lab & SNP. - Now there's a thought...
Doubtless we shall have something new to talk about if and when this evidence comes to light. Question number 1: if Continuity Remain is both so popular and a priority, then why are the Lib Dems not yet polling in the mid-twenties?
I find that very encouraging. 50% of Remain voters would not, therefore, support a STOP BREXIT party in preference to their normal choice.
Good afternoon, everyone.
(edited for spelling)
Indeed - and many of that 50% will no doubt be younger voters who tend not to be arsed when the polling booth beckons. Really this constant revisiting is very tedious. I voted Remain and believe the result was a mistake - but now the country must make the best of it.
In the current context, trying to wreck the government's attempts to leave the EU in accordance with the referendum is thoroughly disreputable, its entirely respectable to wait until after we leave the EU and campaign to rejoin.
To leave the EU in accordance with the referendum means hard Brexit. That's hard luck for the supporters of Leave who didn't want that outcome but that doesn't make then more virtuous than anyone else who would seek to influence the future direction of policy or opinion.
Absolutely not true, That is based on the false contention that immigration was the sole reason for people voting for Brexit which is clearly garbage. Indeed polls both before and after the vote showed an overall majority in favour of an EEA type arrangement rather than a hard Brexit. As I remember I wrote a whole thread header on it.
Three Quidder mentioned Northampton. Forget the campaigns - the only reason 58% of people voted for Leave is because if you walk down Abington Street you will hear as much Polish being spoken as English. It was about immigration.
That's is purely your opinionand is not backed up by the polls. Of course Remaniacs still want to make it seem that Immigration was the only issue but that is just your bias.
In the current context, trying to wreck the government's attempts to leave the EU in accordance with the referendum is thoroughly disreputable, its entirely respectable to wait until after we leave the EU and campaign to rejoin.
To leave the EU in accordance with the referendum means hard Brexit. That's hard luck for the supporters of Leave who didn't want that outcome but that doesn't make then more virtuous than anyone else who would seek to influence the future direction of policy or opinion.
Absolutely not true, That is based on the false contention that immigration was the sole reason for people voting for Brexit which is clearly garbage. Indeed polls both before and after the vote showed an overall majority in favour of an EEA type arrangement rather than a hard Brexit. As I remember I wrote a whole thread header on it.
Hard BrExit or No BrExit, that choice does not appear to be on the table.
If I were the subject of sexual or any other harassment, I'd not go to Gloria Allred. She turns many people against her clients before their story is even heard.
In the current context, trying to wreck the government's attempts to leave the EU in accordance with the referendum is thoroughly disreputable, its entirely respectable to wait until after we leave the EU and campaign to rejoin.
To leave the EU in accordance with the referendum means hard Brexit. That's hard luck for the supporters of Leave who didn't want that outcome but that doesn't make then more virtuous than anyone else who would seek to influence the future direction of policy or opinion.
Absolutely not true, That is based on the false contention that immigration was the sole reason for people voting for Brexit which is clearly garbage. Indeed polls both before and after the vote showed an overall majority in favour of an EEA type arrangement rather than a hard Brexit. As I remember I wrote a whole thread header on it.
Three Quidder mentioned Northampton. Forget the campaigns - the only reason 58% of people voted for Leave is because if you walk down Abington Street you will hear as much Polish being spoken as English. It was about immigration.
This may indeed be true for many Leave voters - so what? Maybe the likes of Lineker/Allen and other 'c' listers might consider this when decrying their own country about Syrian refugees while ignoring the Russian bombing of Aleppo.
Doubtless we shall have something new to talk about if and when this evidence comes to light. Question number 1: if Continuity Remain is both so popular and a priority, then why are the Lib Dems not yet polling in the mid-twenties?
Because the Lib Dems are a real political party with real representatives and a real history - not a hypothetical one.
Comments
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37739046
Would the stuff need a pressurised container, the sort which is on the prohibited list for hand luggage?
They just see the racism as them putting their tribe first - and what right thinking person wouldnt?
One MEP, One Welsh AM, One London AM and next........ One MP!
In 1975, there was no mention of the four freedoms in the discussions. Certainly nothing about total freedom of movement. When did completely open borders become a legal requirement for EU membership?
Was it Maastricht or the Lisbon treaty?
I must have blinked.
The pre-race piece will likely be tomorrow morning. I expect a similar sort of timetable for Mexico and Brazil (the next two races).
This is an interesting read - seems like it could have been a hack of CCTV and camcorder devices and other internet-enabled devices with poor security.
http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/10/hacked-cameras-dvrs-powered-todays-massive-internet-outage/
They are defended for things which would be immediately condemned if they were done by some local small time bloke.
"Mrs Thatchers Single European Act. QMV voting too."
I don't remember that one.
Mr Smithson Jr,
Maastricht? That's John Major's fingerprints then. Bloody Tories. I know the original treaty was full of good intentions but no one admitted it in 1975 - hence my irritation at the lies and deception during that campaign. I was fooled, or rather I was taken for a fool. Immigration has never been a big issue for me, but if they'll lie about that, they'll lie about everything else.
Revenge was sweet on June 23rd.
I've attended European meetings (on a scientific basis only) and I had generally good relations with all, but the admin people of all sorts were children engaged in playground games. Probably like the HoC.
I've no problems with your views. I was 25 and more politically alert than I am now. That's why the deception in 1975 (overtly or by omission) rankled so much.
A baseless accusation against clinton with no evidence cant compare with Trumps 8 years of birtherism.
You are right, they are not daft. Hence why they wont vote for a massive, open racist like Trump.
Surely she'd be 10-15% ahead in the polls if she had done so.
The question I've wanted to know the answer to for so many months is why didn't she 'go high'?
The first time I've heard anyone describe cutting off your nose to spite your face as 'sweet revenge'.
Yesterday I had lunch with nine friends and colleagues all who work in advertising and media and unusually the subject of Brexit came up.
The anger was palpable. Much more so than I remember closer to the vote. Not a single person had voted for Brexit and none were happy to accept the result.
When the country is so divided and on grounds of age ignorance and education it is a recipe for disaster
Now your advertising friends have had their noses cut off in return.
The fact that the elite ever dared risk the referendum shows how out of touch they were. They saw it as inconceivable that out would win as no right thinking person would do such a thing. They were wrong and now they belatedly realise many of their most cherished values are not shared with the many and are angry - and a bit anxious about the future.
On the other hand those like Richard Nabavi who were strongly for Remain but conducted themselves throughout in a measured manner and who have continued that afterwards deserve nothing but respect and a certain amount of sympathy as well. I hope their concerns are proved wrong as they do not deserve the outcome they fear.
Maybe you should visit it sometime.
Adur
Allerdale
Amber Valley
Anglesey
Arun
Ashfield
Ashford
Aylesbury Vale
Babergh
Barking
Barnsley
Barrow
Basildon
Basingstoke
Bedford
Bexley
Birmingham
Blaby
Blackburn
Blackpool
Blaneau Gwent
Bolsover
Bolton
Boston
Bournemouth
Bracknell Forest
Bradford
Braintree
Breckland
Bridgend
Broadland
Bromsgrove
Broxbourne
Broxtowe
Burnley
Bury
They are the people who do the work, pay the taxes and fight in the wars your advertising friends think beneath them.
You can support a view, find that the people disagree, accept that, and after a decent interval, start campaigning for your view or the closest available in the new circumstances. In the current context, trying to wreck the government's attempts to leave the EU in accordance with the referendum is thoroughly disreputable, its entirely respectable to wait until after we leave the EU and campaign to rejoin.
Thanks
58% Leave.
Someone with that sort of intellect and financial reach should be ensuring their children become useful citizens of the world, not conceited tossers eating overpriced breakfast cereal
Moreover I have said a number of times on here that in effect I have already lost no matter who won the vote as it appears the majority view in Government is for immigration beating the single market. I have accepted that may well be the outcome. Not the best I could have hopped for but still better than staying in the EU.
https://twitter.com/JagoUK/status/786256265110368256
However, there is something in the pride with which the new upper 10,000 hate the lower orders.
I remember at school the following - a fellow pupil being rude to the taxi driver that had brought him to the school to start term. It was a very condescending rudeness to - the sense of "you stupid peasant" was very strong.
Shocked, a fellow pupil commented that his mother would have beaten him until the cane broke for that kind of rudeness to a servant. Pupil A was the son of someone moderately senior in The Blob. Pupil B was the son of very, very old money - made their pile in Hot Trodd IIRC.
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/789806027906621440
Doubtless we shall have something new to talk about if and when this evidence comes to light. Question number 1: if Continuity Remain is both so popular and a priority, then why are the Lib Dems not yet polling in the mid-twenties?
You and your ilk have forgotten that you cannot govern a democracy by fiat - declaring in law your wishes and expecting everyone to follow has an inevitable result.
Mirabeau said, ' When the people complain, the people are always right.'
Think about that. For the love of {deity}.
Otherwise you are handing the future... not to Trump, the stupid blowhard. But to Trump's successor - the smart version. Jörg Haider, probably
Politics is about power, and getting things done. On that basis it is easy to conclude that the LibDems haven't been successful for many decades.
However politics is also about promoting ideas and seeing them become policy. Farage and UKIP have shown how holding conventional power isn't essential to achieve this.
And when you look back across the history of the LibDems, the party has very often been the champion of ideas that have eventually become mainstream (e.g abortion reform, LGBT rights, green politics, devolution) or probably will do so relatively soon (e.g. votes at 16, soft drug liberalisation). If you look back across the post-WWII years the LibDems have contributed at least as much to implemented policy as have the big parties. It isn't a coincidence that the word "liberal" is often attached to UK government policy since the 1960s.
On this basis liberalism has (at least until June) been very successful indeed. It's just that, because their ideas and philosophy are shared broadly rather than deeply, Britain's political system has (ex 2010-15) worked to exclude them from holding power directly.
Good afternoon, everyone.
(edited for spelling)
"Old bitter stupid little Englanders vote Leave, bright young vibrant hipsters vote Remain"
Not sure it worked as a campaigning idea
That's is purely your opinionand is not backed up by the polls. Of course Remaniacs still want to make it seem that Immigration was the only issue but that is just your bias.
The game of pretending that the vote meant a hundred and one things that weren't on the ballot paper seems endless.