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  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    john_zims said:

    @Sean T

    'The meme has broken out and gone viral. The refugee charities only have themselves to blame, the original batch of refugees was, genuinely, so absurdly skewed to older, male refugees (some in their 30s, I'd say) it made everyone distrust the entire exercise.'

    There was an 'expert' on Radio 4 news this evening that said out of the last 900 so called child refugees that had arrived in the UK and had their ages checked over 600 were bogus.

    Home Office own figures show it isn't the odd one or two (which will always happen), its as the "expert" said, 2/3s....

    Indeed, I happen to know people who work in placing fostered asylum "children", it really isn't uncommon at all.
  • Options
    Re the 'children'

    ' There is something odd going on with the ratio between boys and girls in Sweden. The latest estimates suggest there are 123 boys for every 100 girls among 16 and 17-year-olds. That's an even greater imbalance than in the same age group in China.

    What is surprising is that if you look at the breakdown of the ages of applicants in Sweden, there's a huge bump in the figures at the age of 16 - often unaccompanied minors arriving without a parent or guardian.

    And 92% of unaccompanied minors aged 16 and 17 years old are male. So why is this?

    "If you're underage, first of all, you get housing, you get more financial resources. You also have a lot of staff around you helping you with different issues," says Hanif Bali, a member of the opposition Moderate Party in the Swedish parliament - which is on the centre right of the political spectrum. "If you need food, clothing, everything, you can go to the municipality and demand this money."

    But there is another even bigger benefit, which Bali believes is significant. "You have the right to family reunification. So you can bring all of your family to Sweden, if you are underage."

    So there are huge incentives for getting to Sweden before you turn 18. This might explain why many young people make the journey at this point in their lives.

    Interestingly, when you break down the data by nationality, the bump of applicants aged 16 from Afghanistan is particularly noticeable. There are about seven or eight times more 16-year-old refugees from Afghanistan than from Syria; the ages of those applying to stay in Sweden from Syria and Iraq are more evenly spread. '

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35444173
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MP_SE said:

    rcs1000 said:


    Although English sparkling wine is not that cheap. See: http://www.waitrosecellar.com/champagne-and-sparkling/type/english-sparkling-wine

    If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.

    I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.

    I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
    My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.

    I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
    About 12 or 13 years ago I started by current day job. The people I worked with were wine obsessives. En Primeur, wine cellars, etc. etc.

    The major lessons I learnt were:

    * There's a massive difference between a 10 pound bottle of wine and a 40 pound one (or, indeed, a 25 pound one).
    * There's barely any difference between a 40 pound bottle and a 200 pound one.
    * Red Burgundy is monumentally overpriced. Red Bordeaux is simply overpriced.
    * There is good value in France, but you need to head to the Rhone and the rest of Southern France.
    * Australia and America produce some amazing - and amazingly consistent - wines, and if you're fishing in the 25/quid a bottle you'll struggle to do better. (And if you want to spend a bit more, St Henri and Ridge Montebello are the equal of 400 pound French wines.)
    * English sparking wine is much better than French at any given price point.
    * Don't forget to drink your wine.

    Unless you get a liquid dividend from a vineyard investment that's been producing a case and a half a year for 20 years :)
    That is, of course, an ideal situation :)
    In case you are ever in my neck of the woods...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domaine_Dujac
    NW8?
    Aye - actually not sure if I have any of the Dujac there, but do have plenty of other stuff & as my wife doesn't drink never have a chance to open it...
    I think I owe you wine right now, rather than the other way around!
  • Options
    NoEasyDay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Essexit said:

    Nail, head, hit. I have tried putting this basic question to Remainers and not once had a satisfactory answer.

    Four questions they always struggle to answer:

    1. If Europe has chosen the right model of cooperation then why, half a century after the Treaty of Rome, has no other region of the world gone anywhere near replicating the EU?
    2. Why, uniquely in all the world, are European states and peoples deemed to be incapable and undeserving of sovereign self-government?
    3. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the number of extra people from abroad that this country can successfully integrate in any one year?
    4. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the total number of people that this country should be expected to sustain within its territory?

    These questions elicit dissembling, evasion, and dishonest politicians' answers that reveal nothing - except from those who are either very fed up with being asked them or very honest, whose answers broadly speaking boil down to "They will do when they finally realise how brilliant it is," "Because the proles are so stupid and violent that they will all go to war with each other again if given half a chance," "No," and "No." These are not particularly satisfactory responses, but European integration has nothing to do with giving satisfactory responses to ordinary voters and everything to do with demonstrating to said voters that only one path and one series of choices is good for them, and they will be made to walk the path and take the appropriate decisions whether they bloody well want to or not.
    For any libertarian, surely the answer to 4 is "let the market decide". More people come, the cost of living rises, it becomes a less attractive destination.
    England's population in 5000BC might have been 5,000. In 1801 it was under 8 million.

    It isn't immediately obvious to me that we are reaching capacity just yet. While our landmass is broadly unchanged in that period, our ability to use it more effectively has improved massively in that time.
    And the question then must be at what point is your opinion on where total capacity is ?

    For my point its where people feel it has been reached and the referendum seems to point many years ago.
    With improvements to science and technology I see little reason why potentially in the future the UK couldn't house more people than the entire USA does today.

    As for where people feel it has been reached, the feeling is not due to numbers but about culture and change etc.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of the Australian economy, next year sees the end of car manufacture there. Barely 10 years ago production was 400 000 per year:

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/who-killed-the-car-industry-20151112-gkx1c8.html

    Australia has a hollowed out economy. Mining and banks, and their servants selling them burgers. The banks are pretty vulnerable to a real estate bubble too.

    Don't forget the world's biggest debt fuelled housing and construction boom!
    Negative gearing a gogo!
    If you explained negative gearing to someone in (say) Germany, they simply wouldn't understand. It's like the government was attempting to encourage a housing bubble:

    "Yes, yes, buy a second property, get a 100% mortgage on it, and rent it out for less than the mortgage payments, but actually make money thanks to the tax system!"
    I think what must have happened is the Aussie PM asked for some fair dinkum policies and the wonks in Canberra thought he said 'fed income'.
    :):):)
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    edited October 2016
    SeanT said:

    Worth noting, as we're on the subject, that fully 800,000 new National Insurance numbers were given out in 2015-2016, mostly to EU nationals.

    800,000. In a year. Dwell on that. In one single year.

    Free Movement on this scale really is and was unsustainable.

    If you're worried the system is going to run out of digits then I suppose you could ask people to give back their numbers when they leave or die.
  • Options
    NoEasyDayNoEasyDay Posts: 454
    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    It's interesting how the question of why France cannot properly look after some of the Calais migrants never seems to be answered by those who think the UK ought to take them in. After all, on some measures France is a wealthier country than the UK.

    It's because it's better politics in France to encourage migrants to move to England.
    The French have have brought this problem to them selves. They failed to police their borders (shengen and all that shit) they failed to enforce the laws (EU laws) that say refugees have to register at the point of entry.
  • Options
    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194

    Emerson College poll has McMullin in the lead in Utah.

    31 McMullin
    27 Trump
    24 Clinton

    http://media.wix.com/ugd/3bebb2_98fe8b3559f64960a573ecad7dc22ec9.pdf

    Is the Emerson College in Boston and Los Angeles, which does the polls, related to the Emerson College in East Sussex, the vehicle for Rudolf Steiner nuts?

    Meanwhile, Donald Trump has tweeted as follows:

    "Of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. Why do Republican leaders deny what is going on? So naive!"

    If he's not a Republican leader himself, then he must be an independent, surely?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited October 2016
    Dromedary said:

    Emerson College poll has McMullin in the lead in Utah.

    31 McMullin
    27 Trump
    24 Clinton

    http://media.wix.com/ugd/3bebb2_98fe8b3559f64960a573ecad7dc22ec9.pdf

    Is the Emerson College in Boston and Los Angeles, which does the polls, related to the Emerson College in East Sussex, the vehicle for Rudolf Steiner nuts?

    Meanwhile, Donald Trump has tweeted as follows:

    "Of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. Why do Republican leaders deny what is going on? So naive!"

    If he's not a Republican leader himself, then he must be an independent, surely?
    I wonder what Trump is going to do after Nov? He has trashed his brand beyond anything imaginable and just getting nuttier by the day.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052
    NoEasyDay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    It's interesting how the question of why France cannot properly look after some of the Calais migrants never seems to be answered by those who think the UK ought to take them in. After all, on some measures France is a wealthier country than the UK.

    It's because it's better politics in France to encourage migrants to move to England.
    The French have have brought this problem to them selves. They failed to police their borders (shengen and all that shit) they failed to enforce the laws (EU laws) that say refugees have to register at the point of entry.
    Although Switzerland is part of Schengen and has very few problems.

    The reason the UK is so attractive to refugees is that you can leave the camp within a few hours of arrival and work in the black market without any real consequences.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052

    Dromedary said:

    Emerson College poll has McMullin in the lead in Utah.

    31 McMullin
    27 Trump
    24 Clinton

    http://media.wix.com/ugd/3bebb2_98fe8b3559f64960a573ecad7dc22ec9.pdf

    Is the Emerson College in Boston and Los Angeles, which does the polls, related to the Emerson College in East Sussex, the vehicle for Rudolf Steiner nuts?

    Meanwhile, Donald Trump has tweeted as follows:

    "Of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. Why do Republican leaders deny what is going on? So naive!"

    If he's not a Republican leader himself, then he must be an independent, surely?
    I wonder what Trump is going to do after Nov? He has trashed his brand beyond anything imaginable and just getting nuttier by the day.
    My understanding is that booking have collapsed at a number of Trump properties. Given his... errr... leveraged position, this could cause him some real problems down the line.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited October 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    NoEasyDay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    It's interesting how the question of why France cannot properly look after some of the Calais migrants never seems to be answered by those who think the UK ought to take them in. After all, on some measures France is a wealthier country than the UK.

    It's because it's better politics in France to encourage migrants to move to England.
    The French have have brought this problem to them selves. They failed to police their borders (shengen and all that shit) they failed to enforce the laws (EU laws) that say refugees have to register at the point of entry.
    Although Switzerland is part of Schengen and has very few problems.

    The reason the UK is so attractive to refugees is that you can leave the camp within a few hours of arrival and work in the black market without any real consequences.
    I can't imagine the tw@tter reaction if the government actually started to properly clamp down on illegal employment, given how much they lost their shit over the Byron Burger story.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Emerson College poll has McMullin in the lead in Utah.

    31 McMullin
    27 Trump
    24 Clinton

    http://media.wix.com/ugd/3bebb2_98fe8b3559f64960a573ecad7dc22ec9.pdf

    Is the Emerson College in Boston and Los Angeles, which does the polls, related to the Emerson College in East Sussex, the vehicle for Rudolf Steiner nuts?

    Meanwhile, Donald Trump has tweeted as follows:

    "Of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. Why do Republican leaders deny what is going on? So naive!"

    If he's not a Republican leader himself, then he must be an independent, surely?
    I wonder what Trump is going to do after Nov? He has trashed his brand beyond anything imaginable and just getting nuttier by the day.
    My understanding is that booking have collapsed at a number of Trump properties. Given his... errr... leveraged position, this could cause him some real problems down the line.
    I am not sure who would want to do business with him now. We are way past build a wall (which already partially exists), we are into full on Alex Jones conspiracy theory nutter.
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,845
    edited October 2016

    SeanT said:

    Worth noting, as we're on the subject, that fully 800,000 new National Insurance numbers were given out in 2015-2016, mostly to EU nationals.

    800,000. In a year. Dwell on that. In one single year.

    Free Movement on this scale really is and was unsustainable.

    If you're worried the system is going to run out of digits then I suppose you could ask people to give back their numbers when they leave or die.
    Well there are about 700,000 births a year each year, so you would expect 700,000 people a year to reach 16 or 18 or whatever age it is when you get your NI number.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Dromedary said:

    Emerson College poll has McMullin in the lead in Utah.

    31 McMullin
    27 Trump
    24 Clinton

    http://media.wix.com/ugd/3bebb2_98fe8b3559f64960a573ecad7dc22ec9.pdf

    Is the Emerson College in Boston and Los Angeles, which does the polls, related to the Emerson College in East Sussex, the vehicle for Rudolf Steiner nuts?

    Meanwhile, Donald Trump has tweeted as follows:

    "Of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. Why do Republican leaders deny what is going on? So naive!"

    If he's not a Republican leader himself, then he must be an independent, surely?
    He's not listed at https://www.gop.com/leaders/national/

    My recollection is that a Republican president, if there is one, counts as leader of the party, but a presidential candidate doesn't.
  • Options
    NoEasyDayNoEasyDay Posts: 454
    rcs1000 said:

    NoEasyDay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    It's interesting how the question of why France cannot properly look after some of the Calais migrants never seems to be answered by those who think the UK ought to take them in. After all, on some measures France is a wealthier country than the UK.

    It's because it's better politics in France to encourage migrants to move to England.
    The French have have brought this problem to them selves. They failed to police their borders (shengen and all that shit) they failed to enforce the laws (EU laws) that say refugees have to register at the point of entry.
    Although Switzerland is part of Schengen and has very few problems.

    The reason the UK is so attractive to refugees is that you can leave the camp within a few hours of arrival and work in the black market without any real consequences.
    The work situation is true and a big failure for us.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    Worth noting, as we're on the subject, that fully 800,000 new National Insurance numbers were given out in 2015-2016, mostly to EU nationals.

    800,000. In a year. Dwell on that. In one single year.

    Free Movement on this scale really is and was unsustainable.

    It is.

    However, unless you address the root causes that result in Pret on Picadilly unable to find British workers for 11.50/hour, while there areas with 30% unemployment within walking distance, then you are attempting to cure the disease solely by targeting the symptoms.

    One of the reasons for leaving the EU is that it will finally (albeit in about fifteen years and after two changes of government and a nasty recession) force us to re-evaluate our tax and benefits and education systems.
    How much does a Pret worker get paid outside London ?

    I'm curious as to who would be better off - a Pret worker in London on London pay and London costs or a Pret worker elsewhere on local pay and local costs.

    Actually I'm pretty sure I know who would be better off.

    London is increasingly a city of the very rich, immigrants looking for an experience and the welfare dependent.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052
    Yes!

    Just secured a Playstation VR from Argos Kilburn.

    Guys, you probably won't see me on pb.com for a couple of days.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997
    Mortimer said:

    619 said:

    619 said:

    They're not the only newspaper to have been playing fast and loose on this story:

    https://twitter.com/bjokie/status/788748072952143873
    I'm in favour of medical tests to ascertain these migrants' ages. I'm also against wilfully deceptive journalism.
    I might be wrong, but I don't believe the Sun were being willfully deceptive in this case. I believe the photos were taken by Getty and sold as all pictures of new migrants.
    They clearly went for the oldest looking photo, not caring that he was never classed as a child refugee.
    After been presented by those photos by a well respected photo agency, why wouldn't they not think given that given the other 20 were also adult looking I don't believe in this case the Sun were being deliberately deceptive.

    If it has been 20, 8-10 year old kids, the guy would have stood out. Then if the Sun had used that photo, then yes that would be been deliberately deceptive.

    The fact he didn't look out of place says it all.
    oh stop it. It was a blatant lie by the Sun. And teenagers (16-18) can look old. and its only 14 refugees,so who gives a shit?
    Oh stop it.

    c. 60% of 'child' migrants who have their age questioned turn out to not be children.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/18/two-thirds-of-child-refugees-entering-uk-found-to-be-adults-figu/

    If say 5% of "child "migrants have their age questioned because they look old, and 60% of them turn out to not be children, that means that only 3% of "child" migrants turn out not to be children.

    Note the Telegraph URL. two-thirds-of-child-refugees-entering-uk-found-to-be-adults
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,127
    edited October 2016

    Re the 'children'

    ' There is something odd going on with the ratio between boys and girls in Sweden. The latest estimates suggest there are 123 boys for every 100 girls among 16 and 17-year-olds. That's an even greater imbalance than in the same age group in China.

    What is surprising is that if you look at the breakdown of the ages of applicants in Sweden, there's a huge bump in the figures at the age of 16 - often unaccompanied minors arriving without a parent or guardian.

    And 92% of unaccompanied minors aged 16 and 17 years old are male. So why is this?

    "If you're underage, first of all, you get housing, you get more financial resources. You also have a lot of staff around you helping you with different issues," says Hanif Bali, a member of the opposition Moderate Party in the Swedish parliament - which is on the centre right of the political spectrum. "If you need food, clothing, everything, you can go to the municipality and demand this money."

    But there is another even bigger benefit, which Bali believes is significant. "You have the right to family reunification. So you can bring all of your family to Sweden, if you are underage."

    So there are huge incentives for getting to Sweden before you turn 18. This might explain why many young people make the journey at this point in their lives.

    Interestingly, when you break down the data by nationality, the bump of applicants aged 16 from Afghanistan is particularly noticeable. There are about seven or eight times more 16-year-old refugees from Afghanistan than from Syria; the ages of those applying to stay in Sweden from Syria and Iraq are more evenly spread. '

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35444173

    ' Bali believes that news of the benefits of presenting yourself as under 18 has filtered back to Afghans on their way to Europe. So do some young men lie about their age?

    "We don't check for age so we can't prove that," says Bali.

    "But in Nordic [countries]… a very big amount of those who are tested do not have the correct age. Some friends of mine, who have taken care of these unaccompanied refugees, are saying, 'We took care of one kid, and we found out he was about 28 years old.'" '

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35444173
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Dromedary said:

    Emerson College poll has McMullin in the lead in Utah.

    31 McMullin
    27 Trump
    24 Clinton

    http://media.wix.com/ugd/3bebb2_98fe8b3559f64960a573ecad7dc22ec9.pdf

    Is the Emerson College in Boston and Los Angeles, which does the polls, related to the Emerson College in East Sussex, the vehicle for Rudolf Steiner nuts?

    Meanwhile, Donald Trump has tweeted as follows:

    "Of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. Why do Republican leaders deny what is going on? So naive!"

    If he's not a Republican leader himself, then he must be an independent, surely?
    I wonder what Trump is going to do after Nov? He has trashed his brand beyond anything imaginable and just getting nuttier by the day.
    My understanding is that booking have collapsed at a number of Trump properties. Given his... errr... leveraged position, this could cause him some real problems down the line.
    That's why you are buying CDSs, right?

    Toronto bookings down 37%
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    Worth noting, as we're on the subject, that fully 800,000 new National Insurance numbers were given out in 2015-2016, mostly to EU nationals.

    800,000. In a year. Dwell on that. In one single year.

    Free Movement on this scale really is and was unsustainable.

    It is.

    However, unless you address the root causes that result in Pret on Picadilly unable to find British workers for 11.50/hour, while there areas with 30% unemployment within walking distance, then you are attempting to cure the disease solely by targeting the symptoms.

    One of the reasons for leaving the EU is that it will finally (albeit in about fifteen years and after two changes of government and a nasty recession) force us to re-evaluate our tax and benefits and education systems.
    For the love of god, the reason there are no British workers in Pret on Picadilly has **** all to do with the education system.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,836
    edited October 2016
    Catching up on the earlier threads.

    It seems to me where the Labour party has now reached, that a twin track approach may be appropriate.

    For immediate leadership decisions and appointments, policies (as generated from leadership), and the freedoms that Blair, Brown and Miliband enjoyed within the rulebook, let Corbyn lead, let him fail to compromise, let him agree to no Trident renewal as (leader and shadow cabinet driven) policy, let him appoint Kate Hoey, let him determine foreign policy positions - but roll over and let him do these things as an executive function rather than needing to co-opt the membership to get them through. Individuals free to resign their own posts on a personal level if they cannot accomodate the leadership, but no mass or in-sympathy resignations. Corbyn, as we know, will not compromise, so with ground ceded he will push further and he will have the rope with which to hang himself. I mean given how Europhilic a very large number of Corbynistas are, and though they'll be glad if Benn does not get the post, the appointment of Hoey will let the penny drop with a few. A few dozen such incidents, just allowed to happen and then pointed out in simple terms and lets hope those pennies start to cascade.

    Meanwhile, for decisions on longer-term governance of the Labour party, be totally Democratic Unionist about things. Fight every inch on NEC make up, local candidate selection, rule change proposals, union elections and anything directly relevant to ensuring no left wing takeover of the party. Few soft Corbynistas really care that much about this kind of stuff.

    In a nutshell, Corbyn should be allowed to take Corbyn down, whilst immunising the Labour party as best as can be managed against the fallout of this process, and then on success reverting any silliness that was applied in a non-democratic, executive fashion.

    It has the whiff of a SeanT zombie bug strategy, but hey, what the heck!
  • Options
    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited October 2016
    Trump two hours ago:

    "I will issue a lifetime ban against senior executive branch officials lobbying on behalf of a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT! #DrainTheSwamp"

    First, does he mean Israel? Maybe not; maybe he means Russia and China. Maybe he went off his nut when he read what somebody wrote about him and Putin. Gotta wonder why he shouts those words though. Second, wouldn't his suggestion require primary legislation? Does he know who makes that in the US?

    To be honest, I'm finding it an effort to be grown-up and not to enjoy the amusing side of watching a madman try to be the US president.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    Worth noting, as we're on the subject, that fully 800,000 new National Insurance numbers were given out in 2015-2016, mostly to EU nationals.

    800,000. In a year. Dwell on that. In one single year.

    Free Movement on this scale really is and was unsustainable.

    It is.

    However, unless you address the root causes that result in Pret on Picadilly unable to find British workers for 11.50/hour, while there areas with 30% unemployment within walking distance, then you are attempting to cure the disease solely by targeting the symptoms.

    One of the reasons for leaving the EU is that it will finally (albeit in about fifteen years and after two changes of government and a nasty recession) force us to re-evaluate our tax and benefits and education systems.
    How much does a Pret worker get paid outside London ?

    I'm curious as to who would be better off - a Pret worker in London on London pay and London costs or a Pret worker elsewhere on local pay and local costs.

    Actually I'm pretty sure I know who would be better off.

    London is increasingly a city of the very rich, immigrants looking for an experience and the welfare dependent.
    The problem is that the Brits who live in the housing estates off City Road, in South London or Pimlico lose housing and other benefits from taking a job at Pret. We therefore create a completely artificial demand for low-skilled immigrants in Central London.

    The boys and girls - usually in their early 20s - who work at Pret on Picadilly live a pretty good life. They share an ex-LA apartment (often rented from someone who'd got in on housing benefit), get their food from their employer, and have a lot of spending money. They're hardly downtrodden.

    Leaving the EU will force us to solve this problem, which is good. But we could have made a start before, rather than blaming all our problems on Brussels.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Dromedary said:

    Trump two hours ago:

    "I will issue a lifetime ban against senior executive branch officials lobbying on behalf of a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT! #DrainTheSwamp"

    First, does he mean Israel? Maybe not; maybe he means Russia and China. Maybe he went off his nut when he read what somebody wrote about him and Putin. Gotta wonder why he shouts those words though. Second, wouldn't his suggestion require primary legislation? Does he know who makes that in the US?

    To be honest, I'm finding it an effort to be grown-up and not to enjoy the amusing side of watching a madman try to be the US president.

    I doubt it. Separation of powers should mean that executive branch officials are answerable to the chief of the executive branch, i.e. the president.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Yes!

    Just secured a Playstation VR from Argos Kilburn.

    Guys, you probably won't see me on pb.com for a couple of days.

    Meh....no where near as good as HTC Vive...
  • Options
    NoEasyDayNoEasyDay Posts: 454
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Worth noting, as we're on the subject, that fully 800,000 new National Insurance numbers were given out in 2015-2016, mostly to EU nationals.

    800,000. In a year. Dwell on that. In one single year.

    Free Movement on this scale really is and was unsustainable.

    If you're worried the system is going to run out of digits then I suppose you could ask people to give back their numbers when they leave or die.
    Says the hypocritical cocksucker who chooses to live in a land of zero net migration (and zero crime) and encourages us all in the UK to import more and more people, as a matter of principle.

    Fuck off, and shut up, old chap.
    And I thought this site had lost its edge.

    Thank you both.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052

    rcs1000 said:

    Yes!

    Just secured a Playstation VR from Argos Kilburn.

    Guys, you probably won't see me on pb.com for a couple of days.

    Meh....no where near as good as HTC Vive...
    But also less than half the price. And doesn't require me to spend hundreds of pounds on a new graphics card and tens of thousands of pounds on an extension.
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194

    Dromedary said:

    Trump two hours ago:

    "I will issue a lifetime ban against senior executive branch officials lobbying on behalf of a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT! #DrainTheSwamp"

    First, does he mean Israel? Maybe not; maybe he means Russia and China. Maybe he went off his nut when he read what somebody wrote about him and Putin. Gotta wonder why he shouts those words though. Second, wouldn't his suggestion require primary legislation? Does he know who makes that in the US?

    To be honest, I'm finding it an effort to be grown-up and not to enjoy the amusing side of watching a madman try to be the US president.

    I doubt it. Separation of powers should mean that executive branch officials are answerable to the chief of the executive branch, i.e. the president.
    When they're still in office, yes. But he wants a "lifetime" ban.
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    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yes!

    Just secured a Playstation VR from Argos Kilburn.

    Guys, you probably won't see me on pb.com for a couple of days.

    Meh....no where near as good as HTC Vive...
    But also less than half the price. And doesn't require me to spend hundreds of pounds on a new graphics card and tens of thousands of pounds on an extension.
    You also missed the "don't have to spend 2hrs setting the damn thing up"....

    I have used them all and tbh none are really that great. Magic Leap is the one I am most interested / excited about.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052
    edited October 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yes!

    Just secured a Playstation VR from Argos Kilburn.

    Guys, you probably won't see me on pb.com for a couple of days.

    Meh....no where near as good as HTC Vive...
    But also less than half the price. And doesn't require me to spend hundreds of pounds on a new graphics card and tens of thousands of pounds on an extension.
    You also missed the "don't have to spend 2hrs setting the damn thing up"....

    I have used them all and tbh none are really that great. Magic Leap is the one I am most interested / excited about.
    I have the Oculus DK2, which I liked a lot. But I'm most excited by Rez Infinite :)

    And yes, Magic Leap looks awesome. I've been angling, using my "I'm a big investor" hat, for a look see for a wile. But no joy yet.
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    NoEasyDayNoEasyDay Posts: 454
    Sean T
    why are you using pejorative terms like "cocksucker" i never had you as a homophobe.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Dromedary said:

    Dromedary said:

    Trump two hours ago:

    "I will issue a lifetime ban against senior executive branch officials lobbying on behalf of a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT! #DrainTheSwamp"

    First, does he mean Israel? Maybe not; maybe he means Russia and China. Maybe he went off his nut when he read what somebody wrote about him and Putin. Gotta wonder why he shouts those words though. Second, wouldn't his suggestion require primary legislation? Does he know who makes that in the US?

    To be honest, I'm finding it an effort to be grown-up and not to enjoy the amusing side of watching a madman try to be the US president.

    I doubt it. Separation of powers should mean that executive branch officials are answerable to the chief of the executive branch, i.e. the president.
    When they're still in office, yes. But he wants a "lifetime" ban.
    Maybe he's planning on being president for life.

    And on that scary note, I'm off to bed. Sweet dreams!
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,300
    edited October 2016
    Pro_Rata said:

    I mean given how Europhilic a very large number of Corbynistas are, and though they'll be glad if Benn does not get the post, the appointment of Hoey will let the penny drop with a few. A few dozen such incidents, just allowed to happen and then pointed out in simple terms and lets hope those pennies start to cascade.

    Benn has won the election, beating Hoey.

    NB. Voted on by all MPs - ie MPs from all parties.

    Cooper won the election for Home Affairs - beating Flint, Umunna and Flynn - again voted on by all MPs from all parties.
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    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    Worth noting, as we're on the subject, that fully 800,000 new National Insurance numbers were given out in 2015-2016, mostly to EU nationals.

    800,000. In a year. Dwell on that. In one single year.

    Free Movement on this scale really is and was unsustainable.

    It is.

    However, unless you address the root causes that result in Pret on Picadilly unable to find British workers for 11.50/hour, while there areas with 30% unemployment within walking distance, then you are attempting to cure the disease solely by targeting the symptoms.

    One of the reasons for leaving the EU is that it will finally (albeit in about fifteen years and after two changes of government and a nasty recession) force us to re-evaluate our tax and benefits and education systems.
    How much does a Pret worker get paid outside London ?

    I'm curious as to who would be better off - a Pret worker in London on London pay and London costs or a Pret worker elsewhere on local pay and local costs.

    Actually I'm pretty sure I know who would be better off.

    London is increasingly a city of the very rich, immigrants looking for an experience and the welfare dependent.
    The problem is that the Brits who live in the housing estates off City Road, in South London or Pimlico lose housing and other benefits from taking a job at Pret. We therefore create a completely artificial demand for low-skilled immigrants in Central London.

    The boys and girls - usually in their early 20s - who work at Pret on Picadilly live a pretty good life. They share an ex-LA apartment (often rented from someone who'd got in on housing benefit), get their food from their employer, and have a lot of spending money. They're hardly downtrodden.

    Leaving the EU will force us to solve this problem, which is good. But we could have made a start before, rather than blaming all our problems on Brussels.
    Indeed.

    I've mentioned previously that circa 2002 I read a Times article about a Pizza Hut in central London where all the workers bar the British manager were immigrants (Americans, Australians and Western Europeans in those days).

    While on the following page there was another article saying that the boroughs with the highest unemployment in Britain were all in London (Hackney, Newham and such like).
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited October 2016
    deleted for muppetry
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yes!

    Just secured a Playstation VR from Argos Kilburn.

    Guys, you probably won't see me on pb.com for a couple of days.

    Meh....no where near as good as HTC Vive...
    But also less than half the price. And doesn't require me to spend hundreds of pounds on a new graphics card and tens of thousands of pounds on an extension.
    You also missed the "don't have to spend 2hrs setting the damn thing up"....

    I have used them all and tbh none are really that great. Magic Leap is the one I am most interested / excited about.
    I have the Oculus DK2, which I liked a lot. But I'm most excited by Rez Infinite :)

    And yes, Magic Leap looks awesome. I've been angling, using my "I'm a big investor" hat, for a look see for a wile. But no joy yet.
    People who work there are NDAed like nothing they have ever experienced. They won't talk about anything to do with, not a sausage.

    Although, I believe they are now nearing the time when they will show a lot more. I know they have said they intend to be a bit like Apple and control the manufacturing, the software etc etc etc.
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    NoEasyDay said:

    Sean T
    why are you using pejorative terms like "cocksucker" i never had you as a homophobe.

    Maybe Sean's been watching Deadwood.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4D3UdxM3OU
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Interesting that Corbyn is not doing much worse than Michael Howard after 13 months. Howard only lost by 3% in 2005.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    New thread folks!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Charles said:

    deleted for muppetry

    Happens to the best of us old boy!
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    NoEasyDayNoEasyDay Posts: 454
    SeanT said:

    NoEasyDay said:

    Sean T
    why are you using pejorative terms like "cocksucker" i never had you as a homophobe.

    I'm no more homophobic than the average drunken thriller writer. But the rich and glorious language of English insults would be horribly neutered if we took our every offensive term.

    Cocksucker is especially valuable, as the clacking consonants mean it can be said with real venom.
    You disappoint me. The offensive term is directly aimed at homosexual people. Its not a general term of offense.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,836
    MikeL said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I mean given how Europhilic a very large number of Corbynistas are, and though they'll be glad if Benn does not get the post, the appointment of Hoey will let the penny drop with a few. A few dozen such incidents, just allowed to happen and then pointed out in simple terms and lets hope those pennies start to cascade.

    Benn has won the election, beating Hoey.

    NB. Voted on by all MPs - ie MPs from all parties.

    Cooper won the election for Home Affairs - beating Flint, Umunna and Flynn - again voted on by all MPs from all parties.
    Thanks - slack on the keeping up front and on the use of will/would/nomination/appointment &c. Still, it is 1am, and new thread has been called.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Worth noting, as we're on the subject, that fully 800,000 new National Insurance numbers were given out in 2015-2016, mostly to EU nationals.

    800,000. In a year. Dwell on that. In one single year.

    Free Movement on this scale really is and was unsustainable.

    If you're worried the system is going to run out of digits then I suppose you could ask people to give back their numbers when they leave or die.
    Says the hypocritical cocksucker who chooses to live in a land of zero net migration (and zero crime) and encourages us all in the UK to import more and more people, as a matter of principle.

    Fuck off, and shut up, old chap.
    To be clear, I'm not encouraging anyone to import or export people. They move around of their own accord.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,368
    SeanT said:

    Worth noting, as we're on the subject, that fully 800,000 new National Insurance numbers were given out in 2015-2016, mostly to EU nationals.

    800,000. In a year. Dwell on that. In one single year.

    Free Movement on this scale really is and was unsustainable.

    Mostly that is a year's worth of British people. As one would expect.
This discussion has been closed.