Question: why, uniquely in all the world, do European states need a supranational federation to save them from themselves?
If you said that, for example, Zambia or Bolivia or Jamaica or Australia needed to be subjected to a supranational framework to stop them from going rogue, the screams of racism, imperialism and colonialism from certain sections of the public and the press would never die. Well, except perhaps in the case of Australia, which is predominantly white and therefore not only can but must be openly and loudly denounced.
If people in Spain, the Czech Republic and Belgium really want to be part of a federal Europe then that, of course, is up to them - but you would rather hope that they had more constructive reasons than "to be saved from our own evil." And the UK is perfectly entitled to opt out of the whole idea, regardless.
Because people think it's better to work together with neighbouring and similar states than not to do so. It's astonishing that the point has to be made. (General comment by the way). Whether the big experiment works is another matter. I would say glass half full - or half empty if you are a pessimist. But let's be clear, the alternative is no glass at all. It's not EU versus something else. It's EU or nothing. Which is a problem with Brexit because we are going to the nothing as far as relations with the rest of Europe are concerned.
Just a note for the interested. The arrest of a Russian hacker in Prague two weeks ago but only announced now, is effectively a 21st century spin on the old Cold War chessboard.
Prague has form as a bit playground for Russian intelligence and associated ne'er do wells but this guy hadn't long been in the city before he was scooped up, apparently based on a a tip off from the FBI.
This is not a one off, the collective Western Intelligence apparatus, hugely dominated by the Americans & British when it comes to cyber-related intelligence and counter intelligence has their list of targets and they will go looking. When the nouveau riche in Russia, of which some of these hackers are in that number, find they might not be able to travel safely west of their borders, life gets less pleasant.
For debate night tonight between Clinton & Trump, I mentioned last night in passing about someone claiming to be Bill Clinton's illegitimate son rumoured to be on the Trump guest list. Still doing the rounds that rumour.
Yes. A population of 4.5 million is the largest dairy exporter on earth.
We could replicate that model. Our climate is not dissimilar.
Their Pinot suggests that it is.
Inland Otago has a very continental climate, with long hot summers and cold winters
Cough. Nowhere in NZ can rightfully be said to have "long hot summers". Otago does have warm summers thanks to its being in the rain shadow of the Southern Alps. But, then, London also has warm mostly dry summers, on average, which few credit it with. For some reason, people massively overrate the weather in NZ. Perhaps it is a product of New Zealanders' optimism compared to British reserve. Much of the NZ weather is similar to Britain, and in many regions it is far, far wetter.
I did live there over a year! The west coast is very wet, but the East coast is dry, and even in winter in Christchurch after a frost it would be t shirt weather in the afternoon. Best climate of anywhere I have been apart from the highlands of Kenya.
You can't judge a NZ's climate by living there for a year. It has highly variable weather thanks to it being a maritime climate exposed to the whims of the South Pacific. Winters, and summers, vary a great deal - just like they do here. You are confusing weather with climate.
lets start a weather v climate argument to stop all this hot air over the eu lol
Surely the wine point settles this argument? I have by my side an open bottle of NZ Pinot Noir. Superb. And a memory of a red wine from the Isle of Wight from some grape i cannot remember; one of the few that will grow here in a good year. It was just about drinkable.
But English sparkling wine is now arguably as good as anything from anywhere, except perhaps the best champagne.
In possibly the least self-aware comment I've ever made here, I've never really understood the point of non-Champagne sparkling wine. None that I've had have ever been nicer than still Burgundian white...
All sparkling wines are basically poor over-acidic white wines with added bubbles and marketing.
Just my view. For the same money you can actually buy something nice to drink.
The most overpriced wines in the world are all Pinot Noirs.
The most overpriced (and overrated) wines in the world are all French, from Bordeaux and Burgundy, because they are seen as the rarest and most valuable by the Chinese.
Pinot Noirs do feature quite highly.
If you're talking about highly collectable wines then maybe, but in the £100 range you'll find a lot of overpriced Napa Cabs.
There's a huge economic case for Brexit. And it is very simple. West European countries outside the EU are richer than the EU. Switzerland, Norway. English speaking countries outside the EU are richer than the EU: Canada, USA, Australia.
Is there some unique handicap that prevents the UK - historically perhaps the most resourceful of all nations - from emulating Switzerland, or Canada, or Norway, or Australia?
NO. If there is any handicap, it must be EU membership itself. The argument ends.
Look, I've argued for Brexit on here for a long-time. But Canada, Norway and Australia are not countries we can emulate. In each case their exports are utterly dominated by commodities.
Arguing we can be like them is like arguing we can be like Saudi Arabia.
Now: Switzerland, or Singapore, or Hong Kong: those are trading countries, with limited natural resources, that we can hope to emulate.
But Australia, Canada, or Norway: you're having a laugh.
You're completely wrong. Australia is not "utterly dominated by commodities".
"The service sector of the Australian economy, including tourism, education and financial services, constitutes 69% of GDP"
You are clearly an idiot, which is somewhat worrying given our financial relationship.
Somethings nagging me about GDP, services and government expenditure. I *think* it means that theh difference between 69% and 78% is really very, very large when you look at the 'proper' non-gov economy.
Can anyone put me right?
Yes. You're wrong.
RCS thinks not. I'd weight your advice on food, wine*, holiday destinations and colourful insults above his, but on matters financial...
*Actually, possible not on wine.
A better way of looking at the Aussie economy versus ours is to say their mining = our financial services. Both generate taxes, exports and profits out of proportion to the numbers employed.
Yes, on wine. I spend my life, now, going from winery to winery. I doubt you do.
Mostly between Oddbins and the pub.
Minerals are just there; nobody can take them away. They will always be yours to sell at whatever time you choose. Financial services are much, much less secure. You're right about the taxes, exports, etc, but it's still a crap comparison.
Just a note for the interested. The arrest of a Russian hacker in Prague two weeks ago but only announced now, is effectively a 21st century spin on the old Cold War chessboard.
Prague has form as a bit playground for Russian intelligence and associated ne'er do wells but this guy hadn't long been in the city before he was scooped up, apparently based on a a tip off from the FBI.
This is not a one off, the collective Western Intelligence apparatus, hugely dominated by the Americans & British when it comes to cyber-related intelligence and counter intelligence has their list of targets and they will go looking. When the nouveau riche in Russia, of which some of these hackers are in that number, find they might not be able to travel safely west of their borders, life gets less pleasant.
For debate night tonight between Clinton & Trump, I mentioned last night in passing about someone claiming to be Bill Clinton's illegitimate son rumoured to be on the Trump guest list. Still doing the rounds that rumour.
Yes. A population of 4.5 million is the largest dairy exporter on earth.
We could replicate that model. Our climate is not dissimilar.
.
Inland Otago has a very continental climate, with long hot summers and cold winters, but with favourable microclimates and so both grapes and stone fruit grow well there. It is too dry for dairy country.
Dairy country is further north on the lush pastures of the North Island where the rain and warmth mean that grass grows speedily all year round.
Cough. Nowhere in NZ can rightfully be said to have "long hot summers". Otago does have warm summers thanks to its being in the rain shadow of the Southern Alps to British reserve. Much of the NZ weather is similar to Britain, and in many regions it is far, far wetter.
I did live there over a year! The west coast is very wet, but the East coast is dry, and even in winter in Christchurch after a frost it would be t shirt weather in the afternoon. Best climate of anywhere I have been apart from the highlands of Kenya.
You can't judge a NZ's climate by living there for a year. It has highly variable weather thanks to it being a maritime climate exposed to the whims of the South Pacific. Winters, and summers, vary a great deal - just like they do here. You are confusing weather with climate.
lets start a weather v climate argument to stop all this hot air over the eu lol
Surely the wine point settles this argument? I have by my side an open bottle of NZ Pinot Noir. Superb. And a memory of a red wine from the Isle of Wight from some grape i cannot remember; one of the few that will grow right at the sunny end of the U.K. in a good year. It was just about drinkable.
I don't mind Pinot Noir as a cool climate red, but I've never really got the hype. I do really like decent Loire Valley Cabernet Franc, which in France is from similar latitudes.
The most overpriced wines in the world are all Pinot Noirs.
The most overpriced (and overrated) wines in the world are all French, from Bordeaux and Burgundy, because they are seen as the rarest and most valuable by the Chinese.
Pinot Noirs do feature quite highly.
Plus the Italian ones that suddenly become fashionable and hence collectible and hence wildly over-priced because of the Italian mania for wanting what everyone else wants. Sassicaia and the like.
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
Just a note for the interested. The arrest of a Russian hacker in Prague two weeks ago but only announced now, is effectively a 21st century spin on the old Cold War chessboard.
Prague has form as a bit playground for Russian intelligence and associated ne'er do wells but this guy hadn't long been in the city before he was scooped up, apparently based on a a tip off from the FBI.
This is not a one off, the collective Western Intelligence apparatus, hugely dominated by the Americans & British when it comes to cyber-related intelligence and counter intelligence has their list of targets and they will go looking. When the nouveau riche in Russia, of which some of these hackers are in that number, find they might not be able to travel safely west of their borders, life gets less pleasant.
For debate night tonight between Clinton & Trump, I mentioned last night in passing about someone claiming to be Bill Clinton's illegitimate son rumoured to be on the Trump guest list. Still doing the rounds that rumour.
ha ha ha ha ha
Trump really is absolutely fucking desprerstw
Apparently will be filing a paternity suit today.
Trump is on a mission to lose by as large a margin as possible, isn't he. Perhaps success will be achieved only if the Dems take the house and senate too...
The upside for Leavers is the downside for Remainers. Namely, we get to govern ourselves, with all the good and bad choices, risks and opportunities, which that entails.
Yes: our range of outcomes is much wider than it was before. Think of how well we might do under a Thatcher now; or how badly we might under a Corbyn.
At the heart of the Remain argument, I think, is that the EU is necessary to save us from ourselves.
Yes. Key elements of all Civilisations are about saving us from ourselves. For all her admirers Randian states have been as successful historically as Communist ones.
Question: why, uniquely in all the world, do European states need a supranational federation to save them from themselves?
If you said that, for example, Zambia or Bolivia or Jamaica or Australia needed to be subjected to a supranational framework to stop them from going rogue, the screams of racism, imperialism and colonialism from certain sections of the public and the press would never die. Well, except perhaps in the case of Australia, which is predominantly white and therefore not only can but must be openly and loudly denounced.
If people in Spain, the Czech Republic and Belgium really want to be part of a federal Europe then that, of course, is up to them - but you would rather hope that they had more constructive reasons than "to be saved from our own evil." And the UK is perfectly entitled to opt out of the whole idea, regardless.
Because of Europe's history. But the planet is littered with regional supranational bodies. Others may catch up in time.
History is full of attempts to create bigger, supranational bodies, which then pull apart. These things move in cycles.
No.......Many people like me saw the UK as the central and lead player in shaping Europe, at the heart of Europe, attracting the best of Europe.
Have you considered the possibility that you are wrong?
It's precisely because we can't lead in the EU, and the EU appears almost unable to enact even tiny reforms, that we are off.
Only in the last few days the people of Wallonia have torpedoed a trade deal with Canada. We would do far more trade with Canada than these Walloons, we are much more numerous and have far closer ties with Canada, and yet the deal is dead because of them. This is a clear example of EU membership harming our interests.
English red wine is still, however, pretty horrible.
Supposedly a novelty...
"Denbies Chalk Ridge Rose 2010 was the only still rosé out of 367 different bottles submitted from 21 countries to win a gold medal at the IWC, widely regarded as the most important of the many international wine competitions."
The upside for Leavers is the downside for Remainers. Namely, we get to govern ourselves, with all the good and bad choices, risks and opportunities, which that entails.
Yes: our range of outcomes is much wider than it was before. Think of how well we might do under a Thatcher now; or how badly we might under a Corbyn.
At the heart of the Remain argument, I think, is that the EU is necessary to save us from ourselves.
Yes. Key elements of all Civilisations are about saving us from ourselves. For all her admirers Randian states have been as successful historically as Communist ones.
Question: why, uniquely in all the world, do European states need a supranational federation to save them from themselves?
If you said that, for example, Zambia or Bolivia or Jamaica or Australia needed to be subjected to a supranational framework to stop them from going rogue, the screams of racism, imperialism and colonialism from certain sections of the public and the press would never die. Well, except perhaps in the case of Australia, which is predominantly white and therefore not only can but must be openly and loudly denounced.
If people in Spain, the Czech Republic and Belgium really want to be part of a federal Europe then that, of course, is up to them - but you would rather hope that they had more constructive reasons than "to be saved from our own evil." And the UK is perfectly entitled to opt out of the whole idea, regardless.
Nail, head, hit. I have tried putting this basic question to Remainers and not once had a satisfactory answer.
Globalisation, easier travel, technology are all, for most economic purposes, making the world a much smaller place. In time, countries will progressively be drawn into the American, European or Chinese orbit, or will team together to create proto-EUs of their own. There are already signs of this being thought about in South America, for example.
The trick is to combine these centripetal forces with localism to make sure that matters best decided locally are decided at national, or ideally regional or local level. It is this dimension where the EU (or more accurately most of the EU states) has been weak.
The same was true in 1900. Then, the big empires subsequently came apart.
Yes. A population of 4.5 million is the largest dairy exporter on earth.
We could replicate that model. Our climate is not dissimilar.
Their Pinot suggests that it is.
Inland Otago has a
Cough. ritish reserve. Much of the NZ weather is similar to Britain, and in many regions it is far, far wetter.
I did live there over a year! The west coast is very wet, but the East coast is dry, and even in winter in Christchurch after a frost it would be t shirt weather in the afternoon. Best climate of anywhere I have been apart from the highlands of Kenya.
You can't judge a
lets start a weather v climate argument to stop all this hot air over the eu lol
Surely the wine point .
But English sparkling wine is now arguably as good as anything from anywhere, except perhaps the best champagne.
In possibly the least self-aware comment I've ever made here, I've never really understood the point of non-Champagne sparkling wine. None that I've had have ever been nicer than still Burgundian white...
All sparkling wines are basically poor over-acidic white wines with added bubbles and marketing.
Just my view. For the same money you can actually buy something nice to drink.
I am with you on this one. English wine is a diverting novelty but nothing more.
Drink beer or whisky if you want a decent drink of something domestic. Leave wine to the foreigners.
This is just silly and ill informed. English sparklers now win awards all over the place. They are genuinely good.
English red wine is still, however, pretty horrible.
Overpriced and over rated. British will drink anything with bubbles, witness how well even poor prosecco or cava sell. It is like lemonade for hen nights.
You can have a case of Thornbridge beers for the same price as a bottle of English bubbly pretending to be half decent. Or a bottle of single malt.
The most overpriced wines in the world are all Pinot Noirs.
The most overpriced (and overrated) wines in the world are all French, from Bordeaux and Burgundy, because they are seen as the rarest and most valuable by the Chinese.
Pinot Noirs do feature quite highly.
If you're talking about highly collectable wines then maybe, but in the £100 range you'll find a lot of overpriced Napa Cabs.
The best value is in non-French old world wines.
It is interesting how the best value wine countries move about through time. In my youth Bulgaria and Portugal were places to look; later the New World before it became more fashionable in wine circles, including South Africa once it dropped off the boycott list.
Spain is now pretty good for value, if you hunt about, I think, as well as Chile. Countries like Slovenia and some of its neighbours are still under-rated, but not too much of their output reaches the U.K.
Nail, head, hit. I have tried putting this basic question to Remainers and not once had a satisfactory answer.
Four questions they always struggle to answer:
1. If Europe has chosen the right model of cooperation then why, half a century after the Treaty of Rome, has no other region of the world gone anywhere near replicating the EU? 2. Why, uniquely in all the world, are European states and peoples deemed to be incapable and undeserving of sovereign self-government? 3. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the number of extra people from abroad that this country can successfully integrate in any one year? 4. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the total number of people that this country should be expected to sustain within its territory?
These questions elicit dissembling, evasion, and dishonest politicians' answers that reveal nothing - except from those who are either very fed up with being asked them or very honest, whose answers broadly speaking boil down to "They will do when they finally realise how brilliant it is," "Because the proles are so stupid and violent that they will all go to war with each other again if given half a chance," "No," and "No." These are not particularly satisfactory responses, but European integration has nothing to do with giving satisfactory responses to ordinary voters and everything to do with demonstrating to said voters that only one path and one series of choices is good for them, and they will be made to walk the path and take the appropriate decisions whether they bloody well want to or not.
The upside for Leavers is the downside for Remainers. Namely, we get to govern ourselves, with all the good and bad choices, risks and opportunities, which that entails.
Yes: our range of outcomes is much wider than it was before. Think of how well we might do under a Thatcher now; or how badly we might under a Corbyn.
At the heart of the Remain argument, I think, is that the EU is necessary to save us from ourselves.
No.......Many people like me saw the UK as the central and lead player in shaping Europe, at the heart of Europe, attracting the best of Europe.
It is people like you that perceived Europe as a threat. People like me saw the opportunities that the EU provided a country like Britain.
Sadly, we will get poorer and inconsequential on the periphery....not just Europe, but the world as the US, China, Japan et al will all naturally be pulled to the EU single market because of commercial interests.
Euroscepticism (which we all have to some extent) never forgave the EU for not being British in the first place.
It hurt like hell to enter as an economic basket case.
And Delors et al made it feel worse in the 80s / early 90s. It felt like we could never compete for influence with a Franco-German alliance and a Commission populated with such unashamed supra nationalists.
But just at the moment the Eurosceptic movement proper began (mid 90s) things actually began to go our way.
The single market started firing on cyclinders. And enlargement to the East reduced the automatic influence (and hence weakened the utility) of Franco-German manoeuvres. The new members spoke English too - or at least they did not speak French).
It was in the 2000s that we failed to seize the opportunity to truly lead in Europe. The Euosceptics were still too happy to froth (and felt justified in doing so given our near miss with the Euro), and Blair spent all his chips on Iraq.
We are where we are.
We have an opportunity again - by necessity now - to help shape a new architecture for Europe. We all know the EU is in many respects unsustainable. We could, with vision, help nudge Europe as a whole toward something else.
But, as others have said above, May is probably too focused on domestic affairs.
Yes. A population of 4.5 million is the largest dairy exporter on earth.
We could replicate that model. Our climate is not dissimilar.
Their Pinot suggests that it is.
Inland Otago has a very continental climate, with long hot summers and cold winters, but with favourable microclimates and so both grapes and stone fruit grow well there. It is too dry for dairy country.
Dairy country is further north on the lush pastures of the North Island where the rain and warmth mean that grass grows speedily all year round.
Cough. Nowhere in NZ can rightfully be said to have "long hot summers". Otago does have warm summers thanks to its being in the rain shadow of the Southern Alps. But, then, London also has warm mostly dry summers, on average, which few credit it with. For some reason, people massively overrate the weather in NZ. Perhaps it is a product of New Zealanders' optimism compared to British reserve. Much of the NZ weather is similar to Britain, and in many regions it is far, far wetter.
I did live there over a year! The west coast is very wet, but the East coast is dry, and even in winter in Christchurch after a frost it would be t shirt weather in the afternoon. Best climate of anywhere I have been apart from the highlands of Kenya.
You can't judge a NZ's climate by living there for a year. It has highly variable weather thanks to it being a maritime climate exposed to the whims of the South Pacific. Winters, and summers, vary a great deal - just like they do here. You are confusing weather with climate.
lets start a weather v climate argument to stop all this hot air over the eu lol
Surely the wine point settles this argument? I have by my side an open bottle of NZ Pinot Noir. Superb. And a memory of a red wine from the Isle of Wight from some grape i cannot remember; one of the few that will grow here in a good year. It was just about drinkable.
But English sparkling wine is now arguably as good as anything from anywhere, except perhaps the best champagne.
In possibly the least self-aware comment I've ever made here, I've never really understood the point of non-Champagne sparkling wine. None that I've had have ever been nicer than still Burgundian white...
There's a huge economic case for Brexit. And it is very simple. West European countries outside the EU are richer than the EU. Switzerland, Norway. English speaking countries outside the EU are richer than the EU: Canada, USA, Australia.
Is there some unique handicap that prevents the UK - historically perhaps the most resourceful of all nations - from emulating Switzerland, or Canada, or Norway, or Australia?
NO. If there is any handicap, it must be EU membership itself. The argument ends.
Look, I've argued for Brexit on here for a long-time. But Canada, Norway and Australia are not countries we can emulate. In each case their exports are utterly dominated by commodities.
Arguing we can be like them is like arguing we can be like Saudi Arabia.
Now: Switzerland, or Singapore, or Hong Kong: those are trading countries, with limited natural resources, that we can hope to emulate.
But Australia, Canada, or Norway: you're having a laugh.
You're coa
Even closer to the UK.
You are clearly an idiot, which is somewhat worrying given our financial relationship.
Somethings Can anyone put me right?
Yes. You're wrong.
RCS thinks not. I'd weight your advice on food, wine*, holiday destinations and colourful insults above his, but on matters financial...
*Actually, possible not on wine.
A b
Yes, on wine. I spend my life, now, going from winery to winery. I doubt you do.
Mostly between Oddbins and the pub.
Minerals are just there; nobody can take them away. They will always be yours to sell at whatever time you choose. Financial services are much, much less secure. You're right about the taxes, exports, etc, but it's still a crap comparison.
Pff. Tell that to my people, the Cornish. There is still more tin and copper left under Cornwall's rocks (and seas) than has ever been mined. And yet Cornish mining is entirely dead, because cheaper sources were found in Malaysia and Australia.
A commodity based economy is no more secure than a services-based economy, indeed arguably much less so. Service-based economies can adapt quicker to changed terms of trade.
Riiiiight. Aside from it being pretty much impossible to extract iron ore more cheaply than from an Australian open cast mine, good point.
I've had a possibly revelatory thought on a partial reason for Britain's poor productivity performance of the last decade.
Namely the increase in inequality and the decrease in socioeconomic mobility.
Explanation - previously if a worker increased their productivity there would be a strong likelihood of an increase in their earnings. But now the fruits of this increase in productivity is being kept by the directors / fatcats / 1%. The worker therefore has no incentive to increase productivity.
1. If Europe has chosen the right model of cooperation then why, half a century after the Treaty of Rome, has no other region of the world gone anywhere near replicating the EU? 2. Why, uniquely in all the world, are European states and peoples deemed to be incapable and undeserving of sovereign self-government? 3. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the number of extra people from abroad that this country can successfully integrate in any one year? 4. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the total number of people that this country should be expected to sustain within its territory?
These questions elicit dissembling, evasion, and dishonest politicians' answers that reveal nothing - except from those who are either very fed up with being asked them or very honest, whose answers broadly speaking boil down to "They will do when they finally realise how brilliant it is," "Because the proles are so stupid and violent that they will all go to war with each other again if given half a chance," "No," and "No." These are not particularly satisfactory responses, but European integration has nothing to do with giving satisfactory responses to ordinary voters and everything to do with demonstrating to said voters that only one path and one series of choices is good for them, and they will be made to walk the path and take the appropriate decisions whether they bloody well want to or not.
But not really that difficult.
On 1. The entire history of Europe has led the way on forms of political organisation, from the ancient Greeks through Rome and the renaissance to Magna Carta and revolutions and parliamentary democracy. We are always first. And the process was kick-started by the desire to put behind us generations of inter-national warfare.
2. is partly the same question as 1, and partly an observation that as economic power gravitates upwards from national companies to global corporations, the models of accountability and governance need to change in parallel. Otherwise Apple, Microsoft, Amazon and MacDonalds get to rule the world without any genuine control or accountability.
On 3 & 4 there are obviously limits - but there is no reason why 1 & 2 should necessarily mean unlimited migration. And in any case the biggest migration pressure we face now is from people from the Middle East (and to a lesser extent sub-Saharan and the Horn of Africa) wanting to come to the EU, with boatloads of them arriving every day. The EU is part of the solution (insofar as there is one), not the problem. And there'll still be as many people trying to enter the UK from France and elsewhere after Brexit (unless exit turns us into an unpleasant basket case, of course).
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
The most overpriced (and overrated) wines in the world are all French, from Bordeaux and Burgundy, because they are seen as the rarest and most valuable by the Chinese.
Pinot Noirs do feature quite highly.
Heard a great comeback at dinner yesterday.
A Chinese guy poured some coke into his wine: he was criticized by a Brit for doing so.
"I'll stop pouring coke in my wine when you stop putting milk in your tea"
The upside for Leavers is the downside for Remainers. Namely, we get to govern ourselves, with all the good and bad choices, risks and opportunities, which that entails.
Yes: our range of outcomes is much wider than it was before. Think of how well we might do under a Thatcher now; or how badly we might under a Corbyn.
At the heart of the Remain argument, I think, is that the EU is necessary to save us from ourselves.
Yes. Key elements of all Civilisations are about saving us from ourselves. For all her admirers Randian states have been as successful historically as Communist ones.
Question: why, uniquely in all the world, do European states need a supranational federation to save them from themselves?
If you said that, for example, Zambia or Bolivia or Jamaica or Australia needed to be subjected to a supranational framework to stop them from going rogue, the screams of racism, imperialism and colonialism from certain sections of the public and the press would never die. Well, except perhaps in the case of Australia, which is predominantly white and therefore not only can but must be openly and loudly denounced.
If people in Spain, the Czech Republic and Belgium really want to be part of a federal Europe then that, of course, is up to them - but you would rather hope that they had more constructive reasons than "to be saved from our own evil." And the UK is perfectly entitled to opt out of the whole idea, regardless.
Because of Europe's history. But the planet is littered with regional supranational bodies. Others may catch up in time.
History is full of attempts to create bigger, supranational bodies, which then pull apart. These things move in cycles.
Putting "supranational" in there makes it sound like nation states are some kind of eternal indivisible buildibg block, which their not. Current nations are the bigger bodies created in previous cycles.
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
The upside for Leavers is the downside for Remainers. Namely, we get to govern ourselves, with all the good and bad choices, risks and opportunities, which that entails.
Yes: our range of outcomes is much wider than it was before. Think of how well we might do under a Thatcher now; or how badly we might under a Corbyn.
At the heart of the Remain argument, I think, is that the EU is necessary to save us from ourselves.
No.......Many people like me saw the UK as the central and lead player in shaping Europe, at the heart of Europe, attracting the best of Europe.
Yes. A population of 4.5 million is the largest dairy exporter on earth.
We could replicate that model. Our climate is not dissimilar.
.
Inland Otagoss grows speedily all year round.
Cough. Nowhere inn, and in many regions it is far, far wetter.
I did livt from the highlands of Kenya.
You can't judge a Njust like they do here. You are confusing weather with climate.
lets start a weather v climate argument to stop all this hot air over the eu lol
Surely the wine point settles this argument? I have by my side an open bottle of NZ Pinot Noir. Superb. And a memory of a red wine from the Isle of Wight from some grape i cannot remember; one of the few that will grow right at the sunny end of the U.K. in a good year. It was just about drinkable.
I don't mind Pinot Noir as a cool climate red, but I've never really got the hype. I do really like decent Loire Valley Cabernet Franc, which in France is from similar latitudes.
The most overpriced wines in the world are all Pinot Noirs.
Pinot Noirs do feature quite highly.
Plus the Italian ones that suddenly become fashionable and hence collectible and hence wildly over-priced because of the Italian mania for wanting what everyone else wants. Sassicaia and the like.
I went to a posh wine shop in Chagford, Devon, the other day, and realised that not only had I visited most of the wine regions on the shelves, and met wine makers there, I had visited several of THE most fashionable wineries whose labels I could see: from Matetic in Chile to the Mornington Peninsula, from the Beaujolais to South Tyrol, the Douro, California, Yarra Valley, Bordeaux, the Rhine Valley, Tuscany....
By default I have become a kind of food and wine expert, despite being an idiot, simply by going to so many bloody places and drinking so much.
I don't want to blow my own conch but in early November I will be one of two dozen or so foreign journalists who will be flown to Margaret River for the Gourmet Escape Food and Wine Festival. AA Gill was the invited UK journalist last year.
Cough. Nowhere inn, and in many regions it is far, far wetter.
I did livt from the highlands of Kenya.
You can't judge a Njust like they do here. You are confusing weather with climate.
lets start a weather v climate argument to stop all this hot air over the eu lol
Surely the wine point settles this argument? I have by my side an open bottle of NZ Pinot Noir. Superb. And a memory of a red wine from the Isle of Wight from some grape i cannot remember; one of the few that will grow right at the sunny end of the U.K. in a good year. It was just about drinkable.
I don't mind Pinot Noir as a cool climate red, but I've never really got the hype. I do really like decent Loire Valley Cabernet Franc, which in France is from similar latitudes.
The most overpriced wines in the world are all Pinot Noirs.
The most overpriced (and overrated) wines in the world are all French, from Bordeaux and Burgundy, because they are seen as the rarest and most valuable by the Chinese.
Pinot Noirs do feature quite highly.
Plus the Italian ones that suddenly become fashionable and hence collectible and hence wildly over-priced because of the Italian mania for wanting what everyone else wants. Sassicaia and the like.
I went to a posh wine shop in Chagford, Devon, the other day, and realised that not only had I visited most of the wine regions on the shelves, and met wine makers there, I had visited several of THE most fashionable wineries whose labels I could see: from Matetic in Chile to the Mornington Peninsula, from the Beaujolais to South Tyrol, the Douro, California, Yarra Valley, Bordeaux, the Rhine Valley, Tuscany....
By default I have become a kind of food and wine expert, despite being an idiot, simply by going to so many bloody places and drinking so much.
I don't want to blow my own conch but in early November I will be one of two dozen or so foreign journalists who will be flown to Margaret River for the Gourmet Escape Food and Wine Festival. AA Gill was the invited UK journalist last year.
When you think back to May 2015, who both voted for and got the outcome they wanted? Who's vote was inspired by the hope of the outcome we have?
I say it is Conservative voters who were tempted by UKIP but persuaded to come home by the thought of Red Ed & the SNP, and the promise of a referendum.
They now have a majority, an ostensibly more right wing leader, a referendum win, and a Massive poll lead.
Without the 'Ed in Salmonds pocket' poster we would not have voted to leave the EU.
Australia has a hollowed out economy. Mining and banks, and their servants selling them burgers. The banks are pretty vulnerable to a real estate bubble too.
Yes. A population of 4.5 million is the largest dairy exporter on earth.
We could replicate that model. Our climate is not dissimilar.
.
Inland Otagoss grows speedily all year round.
Cough. Nowhere inn, and in many regions it is far, far wetter.
I did livt from the highlands of Kenya.
Surely the wine point settles this argument? I have by my side an open bottle of NZ Pinot Noir. Superb. And a memory of a red wine from the Isle of Wight from some grape i cannot remember; one of the few that will grow right at the sunny end of the U.K. in a good year. It was just about drinkable.
I don't mind Pinot Noir as a cool climate red, but I've never really got the hype. I do really like decent Loire Valley Cabernet Franc, which in France is from similar latitudes.
The most overpriced wines in the world are all Pinot Noirs.
The most overpriced (and overrated) wines in the world are all French, from Bordeaux and Burgundy, because they are seen as the rarest and most valuable by the Chinese.
Pinot Noirs do feature quite highly.
Plus the Italian ones that suddenly become fashionable and hence collectible and hence wildly over-priced because of the Italian mania for wanting what everyone else wants. Sassicaia and the like.
I went to a posh wine shop in Chagford, Devon, the other day, and realised that not only had I visited most of the wine regions on the shelves, and met wine makers there, I had visited several of THE most fashionable wineries whose labels I could see: from Matetic in Chile to the Mornington Peninsula, from the Beaujolais to South Tyrol, the Douro, California, Yarra Valley, Bordeaux, the Rhine Valley, Tuscany....
By default I have become a kind of food and wine expert, despite being an idiot, simply by going to so many bloody places and drinking so much.
I don't want to blow my own conch but in early November I will be one of two dozen or so foreign journalists who will be flown to Margaret River for the Gourmet Escape Food and Wine Festival. AA Gill was the invited UK journalist last year.
No.......Many people like me saw the UK as the central and lead player in shaping Europe, at the heart of Europe, attracting the best of Europe.
Only in the last few days the people of Wallonia have torpedoed a trade deal with Canada. We would do far more trade with Canada than these Walloons, we are much more numerous and have far closer ties with Canada, and yet the deal is dead because of them. This is a clear example of EU membership harming our interests.
Yes. A population of 4.5 million is the largest dairy exporter on earth.
We could replicate that model. Our climate is not dissimilar.
Their Pinot suggests that it is.
Inland Otago has a
Cough. ritish reserve. Much of the NZ weather is similar to Britain, and in many regions it is far, far wetter.
I did live there over a year! The west coast is very wet, but the East coast is dry, and even in winter in Christchurch after a frost it would be t shirt weather in the afternoon. Best climate of anywhere I have been apart from the highlands of Kenya.
You can't judge a
lets start a weather v climate argument to stop all this hot air over the eu lol
Surely the wine point .
But English sparkling wine is now arguably as good as anything from anywhere, except perhaps the best champagne.
In pon white...
All sparkling wines are basically poor over-acidic white wines with added bubbles and marketing.
Just my view. For the same money you can actually buy something nice to drink.
I am with you on this one. English wine is a diverting novelty but nothing more.
Drink beer or whisky if you want a decent drink of something domestic. Leave wine to the foreigners.
This is just silly and ill informed. English sparklers now win awards all over the place. They are genuinely good.
English red wine is still, however, pretty horrible.
You can have a case of Thornbridge beers for the same price as a bottle of English bubbly pretending to be half decent. Or a bottle of single malt.
You clearly haven't combined the pleasures of sparkling wine and spanking. Nothing else goes so well. Your partner should be 23-28 and agreeably curvaceous. A bottle of IPA or a big old tumbler of Highland Park doesn't quite hit the spot in the same way as a freezing flute of fun, perhaps spilled on the nipples.
Sparkling wines do have a role in seduction. Ladies are suckers for them, but beyond that they are pretty pointless. Still wines are far better to drink.
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
Taking a few dozen refugees/migrants is frankly a complete non story, in the grand scheme of things, and in any case aren't you forgetting it's the blessed Cruella who has let them in? Shame on the Sun for whipping up hysteria.
Yes. A population of 4.5 million is the largest dairy exporter on earth.
We could replicate that model. Our climate is not dissimilar.
Their Pinot suggests that it is.
...
Dairy country is further north on the lush pastures of the North Island where the rain and warmth mean that grass grows speedily all year round.
Cough. Nowhere in NZ can rightfully be said to have "long hot summers". Otago does have warm summers thanks to its being in the rain shadow of the Southern Alps. But, then, London also has warm mostly dry summers, on average, which few credit it with. For some reason, people massively overrate the weather in NZ. Perhaps it is a product of New Zealanders' optimism compared to British reserve. Much of the NZ weather is similar to Britain, and in many regions it is far, far wetter.
I did live there over a year! The west coast is very wet, but the East coast is dry, and even in winter in Christchurch after a frost it would be t shirt weather in the afternoon. Best climate of anywhere I have been apart from the highlands of Kenya.
You can't judge a NZ's climate by living there for a year. It has highly variable weather thanks to it being a maritime climate exposed to the whims of the South Pacific. Winters, and summers, vary a great deal - just like they do here. You are confusing weather with climate.
lets start a weather v climate argument to stop all this hot air over the eu lol
Surely the wine point settles this argument? I have by my side an open bottle of NZ Pinot Noir. Superb. And a memory of a red wine from the Isle of Wight from some grape i cannot remember; one of the few that will grow here in a good year. It was just about drinkable.
But English sparkling wine is now arguably as good as anything from anywhere, except perhaps the best champagne.
In possibly the least self-aware comment I've ever made here, I've never really understood the point of non-Champagne sparkling wine. None that I've had have ever been nicer than still Burgundian white...
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
Taking a few dozen refugees/migrants is frankly a complete non story, in the grand scheme of things, and in any case aren't you forgetting it's the blessed Cruella who has let them in? Shame on the Sun for whipping up hysteria.
They're not the only newspaper to have been playing fast and loose on this story:
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
Taking a few dozen refugees/migrants is frankly a complete non story, in the grand scheme of things, and in any case aren't you forgetting it's the blessed Cruella who has let them in? Shame on the Sun for whipping up hysteria.
The sun and their readers would rather they all drowned in the sea.
No.......Many people like me saw the UK as the central and lead player in shaping Europe, at the heart of Europe, attracting the best of Europe.
Only in the last few days the people of Wallonia have torpedoed a trade deal with Canada. We would do far more trade with Canada than these Walloons, we are much more numerous and have far closer ties with Canada, and yet the deal is dead because of them. This is a clear example of EU membership harming our interests.
Can this trade deal be droven through by QMV?
Seems there is a lot of wailing within the Commission that the deal has fallen but maybe they are up to their usual scare tactics.
I read today that a green MEP is leading a revolt against Juncker's seeking his resignation over Luxembourg's tax arrangements. How he is still in Office after losing the UK is beyond belief
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
About 12 or 13 years ago I started by current day job. The people I worked with were wine obsessives. En Primeur, wine cellars, etc. etc.
The major lessons I learnt were:
* There's a massive difference between a 10 pound bottle of wine and a 40 pound one (or, indeed, a 25 pound one). * There's barely any difference between a 40 pound bottle and a 200 pound one. * Red Burgundy is monumentally overpriced. Red Bordeaux is simply overpriced. * There is good value in France, but you need to head to the Rhone and the rest of Southern France. * Australia and America produce some amazing - and amazingly consistent - wines, and if you're fishing in the 25/quid a bottle you'll struggle to do better. (And if you want to spend a bit more, St Henri and Ridge Montebello are the equal of 400 pound French wines.) * English sparking wine is much better than French at any given price point. * Don't forget to drink your wine.
Nail, head, hit. I have tried putting this basic question to Remainers and not once had a satisfactory answer.
Four questions they always struggle to answer:
1. If Europe has chosen the right model of cooperation then why, half a century after the Treaty of Rome, has no other region of the world gone anywhere near replicating the EU? 2. Why, uniquely in all the world, are European states and peoples deemed to be incapable and undeserving of sovereign self-government? 3. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the number of extra people from abroad that this country can successfully integrate in any one year? 4. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the total number of people that this country should be expected to sustain within its territory?
These questions elicit dissembling, evasion, and dishonest politicians' answers that reveal nothing - except from those who are either very fed up with being asked them or very honest, whose answers broadly speaking boil down to "They will do when they finally realise how brilliant it is," "Because the proles are so stupid and violent that they will all go to war with each other again if given half a chance," "No," and "No." These are not particularly satisfactory responses, but European integration has nothing to do with giving satisfactory responses to ordinary voters and everything to do with demonstrating to said voters that only one path and one series of choices is good for them, and they will be made to walk the path and take the appropriate decisions whether they bloody well want to or not.
For any libertarian, surely the answer to 4 is "let the market decide". More people come, the cost of living rises, it becomes a less attractive destination.
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
Villa Sandahl's produce is, sadly, mostly snapped up by the Swedish state monopoly off-licence chain. Fortunately the winery is only about 25 miles from my house.
Australia has a hollowed out economy. Mining and banks, and their servants selling them burgers. The banks are pretty vulnerable to a real estate bubble too.
Don't forget the world's biggest debt fuelled housing and construction boom!
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
Taking a few dozen refugees/migrants is frankly a complete non story, in the grand scheme of things, and in any case aren't you forgetting it's the blessed Cruella who has let them in? Shame on the Sun for whipping up hysteria.
They're not the only newspaper to have been playing fast and loose on this story:
No.......Many people like me saw the UK as the central and lead player in shaping Europe, at the heart of Europe, attracting the best of Europe.
Only in the last few days the people of Wallonia have torpedoed a trade deal with Canada. We would do far more trade with Canada than these Walloons, we are much more numerous and have far closer ties with Canada, and yet the deal is dead because of them. This is a clear example of EU membership harming our interests.
Can this trade deal be droven through by QMV?
The trade deal contains provisions for enabling Canadians to get temporary (up to six months) work visas in Schengen/EU countries, and for all EU citizens to get similar in Canada. Because of these provisions, it requires unanimity.
These provisions will likely be dropped if it continues to stall.
Australia has a hollowed out economy. Mining and banks, and their servants selling them burgers. The banks are pretty vulnerable to a real estate bubble too.
Don't forget the world's biggest debt fuelled housing and construction boom!
Nail, head, hit. I have tried putting this basic question to Remainers and not once had a satisfactory answer.
Four questions they always struggle to answer:
1. If Europe has chosen the right model of cooperation then why, half a century after the Treaty of Rome, has no other region of the world gone anywhere near replicating the EU? 2. Why, uniquely in all the world, are European states and peoples deemed to be incapable and undeserving of sovereign self-government? 3. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the number of extra people from abroad that this country can successfully integrate in any one year? 4. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the total number of people that this country should be expected to sustain within its territory?
These questions elicit dissembling, evasion, and dishonest politicians' answers that reveal nothing - except from those who are either very fed up with being asked them or very honest, whose answers broadly speaking boil down to "They will do when they finally realise how brilliant it is," "Because the proles are so stupid and violent that they will all go to war with each other again if given half a chance," "No," and "No." These are not particularly satisfactory responses, but European integration has nothing to do with giving satisfactory responses to ordinary voters and everything to do with demonstrating to said voters that only one path and one series of choices is good for them, and they will be made to walk the path and take the appropriate decisions whether they bloody well want to or not.
For any libertarian, surely the answer to 4 is "let the market decide". More people come, the cost of living rises, it becomes a less attractive destination.
England's population in 5000BC might have been 5,000. In 1801 it was under 8 million.
It isn't immediately obvious to me that we are reaching capacity just yet. While our landmass is broadly unchanged in that period, our ability to use it more effectively has improved massively in that time.
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
Taking a few dozen refugees/migrants is frankly a complete non story, in the grand scheme of things, and in any case aren't you forgetting it's the blessed Cruella who has let them in? Shame on the Sun for whipping up hysteria.
They're not the only newspaper to have been playing fast and loose on this story:
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
About 12 or 13 years ago I started by current day job. The people I worked with were wine obsessives. En Primeur, wine cellars, etc. etc.
The major lessons I learnt were:
* There's a massive difference between a 10 pound bottle of wine and a 40 pound one (or, indeed, a 25 pound one). * There's barely any difference between a 40 pound bottle and a 200 pound one. * Red Burgundy is monumentally overpriced. Red Bordeaux is simply overpriced. * There is good value in France, but you need to head to the Rhone and the rest of Southern France. * Australia and America produce some amazing - and amazingly consistent - wines, and if you're fishing in the 25/quid a bottle you'll struggle to do better. (And if you want to spend a bit more, St Henri and Ridge Montebello are the equal of 400 pound French wines.) * English sparking wine is much better than French at any given price point. * Don't forget to drink your wine.
Agree with all of that. After my recent trip to the Chilean winelands I'd say Chile is about to enter the list of great wine countries. Ditto South Africa, perhaps.
Even Bolivia now makes really nice "high altitude" wine.
Best value in France is the southern Rhone valley and Languedoc.
Having just returned from Avignon with a couple of bottles of Tourbillion white Chateauneuf-de-Pape, I can heartily agree.
Another point I'd add is that the best budget red I've ever had was Californian. Think it was about £11 quid and Pinot from Whole Foods in Kensington High St. I can't remember much more. Wish I could; it was bloody love.y
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
Taking a few dozen refugees/migrants is frankly a complete non story, in the grand scheme of things, and in any case aren't you forgetting it's the blessed Cruella who has let them in? Shame on the Sun for whipping up hysteria.
They're not the only newspaper to have been playing fast and loose on this story:
Of course some medical tests could be made to ascertain ages but for some reason the refugee industry opposes that.
There's also the issue of the male:female ratio - has that been revealed or is it another thing that would be 'unethical' to ask ?
I'm in favour of medical tests to ascertain these migrants' ages. I'm also against wilfully deceptive journalism.
I might be wrong, but I don't believe the Sun were being willfully deceptive in this case. I believe the photos were taken by Getty and sold as all pictures of new migrants.
Australia has a hollowed out economy. Mining and banks, and their servants selling them burgers. The banks are pretty vulnerable to a real estate bubble too.
Don't forget the world's biggest debt fuelled housing and construction boom!
Negative gearing a gogo!
If you explained negative gearing to someone in (say) Germany, they simply wouldn't understand. It's like the government was attempting to encourage a housing bubble:
"Yes, yes, buy a second property, get a 100% mortgage on it, and rent it out for less than the mortgage payments, but actually make money thanks to the tax system!"
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
Villa Sandahl's produce is, sadly, mostly snapped up by the Swedish state monopoly off-licence chain. Fortunately the winery is only about 25 miles from my house.
I'm envious as Balaton is gorgeous! I had been thinking vaguely about buying a holiday place in Central Europe, probably Czech R tbh, but am worried now that big B may have put the kibosh on it. How easy was it to buy?
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
Taking a few dozen refugees/migrants is frankly a complete non story, in the grand scheme of things, and in any case aren't you forgetting it's the blessed Cruella who has let them in? Shame on the Sun for whipping up hysteria.
They're not the only newspaper to have been playing fast and loose on this story:
Of course some medical tests could be made to ascertain ages but for some reason the refugee industry opposes that.
There's also the issue of the male:female ratio - has that been revealed or is it another thing that would be 'unethical' to ask ?
I'm in favour of medical tests to ascertain these migrants' ages. I'm also against wilfully deceptive journalism.
I might be wrong, but I don't believe the Sun were being willfully deceptive in this case. I believe the photos were taken by Getty and sold as all pictures of new migrants.
They clearly went for the oldest looking photo, not caring that he was never classed as a child refugee.
Nail, head, hit. I have tried putting this basic question to Remainers and not once had a satisfactory answer.
Four questions they always struggle to answer:
1. If Europe has chosen the right model of cooperation then why, half a century after the Treaty of Rome, has no other region of the world gone anywhere near replicating the EU? 2. Why, uniquely in all the world, are European states and peoples deemed to be incapable and undeserving of sovereign self-government? 3. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the number of extra people from abroad that this country can successfully integrate in any one year? 4. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the total number of people that this country should be expected to sustain within its territory?
These questions elicit dissembling, evasion, and dishonest politicians' answers that reveal nothing - except from those who are either very fed up with being asked them or very honest, whose answers broadly speaking boil down to "They will do when they finally realise how brilliant it is," "Because the proles are so stupid and violent that they will all go to war with each other again if given half a chance," "No," and "No." These are not particularly satisfactory responses, but European integration has nothing to do with giving satisfactory responses to ordinary voters and everything to do with demonstrating to said voters that only one path and one series of choices is good for them, and they will be made to walk the path and take the appropriate decisions whether they bloody well want to or not.
For any libertarian, surely the answer to 4 is "let the market decide". More people come, the cost of living rises, it becomes a less attractive destination.
England's population in 5000BC might have been 5,000. In 1801 it was under 8 million.
It isn't immediately obvious to me that we are reaching capacity just yet. While our landmass is broadly unchanged in that period, our ability to use it more effectively has improved massively in that time.
And the question then must be at what point is your opinion on where total capacity is ?
For my point its where people feel it has been reached and the referendum seems to point many years ago.
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
Taking a few dozen refugees/migrants is frankly a complete non story, in the grand scheme of things, and in any case aren't you forgetting it's the blessed Cruella who has let them in? Shame on the Sun for whipping up hysteria.
They're not the only newspaper to have been playing fast and loose on this story:
Nail, head, hit. I have tried putting this basic question to Remainers and not once had a satisfactory answer.
Four questions they always struggle to answer:
1. If Europe has chosen the right model of cooperation then why, half a century after the Treaty of Rome, has no other region of the world gone anywhere near replicating the EU? 2. Why, uniquely in all the world, are European states and peoples deemed to be incapable and undeserving of sovereign self-government? 3. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the number of extra people from abroad that this country can successfully integrate in any one year? 4. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the total number of people that this country should be expected to sustain within its territory?
These questions elicit dissembling, evasion, and dishonest politicians' answers that reveal nothing - except from those who are either very fed up with being asked them or very honest, whose answers broadly speaking boil down to "They will do when they finally realise how brilliant it is," "Because the proles are so stupid and violent that they will all go to war with each other again if given half a chance," "No," and "No." These are not particularly satisfactory responses, but European integration has nothing to do with giving satisfactory responses to ordinary voters and everything to do with demonstrating to said voters that only one path and one series of choices is good for them, and they will be made to walk the path and take the appropriate decisions whether they bloody well want to or not.
For any libertarian, surely the answer to 4 is "let the market decide". More people come, the cost of living rises, it becomes a less attractive destination.
England's population in 5000BC might have been 5,000. In 1801 it was under 8 million.
It isn't immediately obvious to me that we are reaching capacity just yet. While our landmass is broadly unchanged in that period, our ability to use it more effectively has improved massively in that time.
And the question then must be at what point is your opinion on where total capacity is ?
For my point its where people feel it has been reached and the referendum seems to point many years ago.
If we didn't allow any benefits or free health care for immigrants, then surely the market would work it out?
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
Villa Sandahl's produce is, sadly, mostly snapped up by the Swedish state monopoly off-licence chain. Fortunately the winery is only about 25 miles from my house.
I'm envious as Balaton is gorgeous! I had been thinking vaguely about buying a holiday place in Central Europe, probably Czech R tbh, but am worried now that big B may have put the kibosh on it. How easy was it to buy?
Not too hard, but I had Hungarian friends (including lawyer friends) to help me. When I bought it was difficult buying in the national park area - that may have changed now though.
The Balaton area is reasonably prosperous and very much a second home area already for Budapest professionals. You should be aware that most of the Hungarian countryside offers poor job prospects for locals and many parts outside tourist areas are depopulating. I imagine that is true throughout central and Eastern Europe. What looks scenic may be a village in long term decline, so bear that in mind,
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
Taking a few dozen refugees/migrants is frankly a complete non story, in the grand scheme of things, and in any case aren't you forgetting it's the blessed Cruella who has let them in? Shame on the Sun for whipping up hysteria.
They're not the only newspaper to have been playing fast and loose on this story:
Of course some medical tests could be made to ascertain ages but for some reason the refugee industry opposes that.
There's also the issue of the male:female ratio - has that been revealed or is it another thing that would be 'unethical' to ask ?
I'm in favour of medical tests to ascertain these migrants' ages. I'm also against wilfully deceptive journalism.
I might be wrong, but I don't believe the Sun were being willfully deceptive in this case. I believe the photos were taken by Getty and sold as all pictures of new migrants.
They clearly went for the oldest looking photo, not caring that he was never classed as a child refugee.
After been presented by those photos by a well respected photo agency, why wouldn't they not think given that given the other 20 were also adult looking I don't believe in this case the Sun were being deliberately deceptive.
If it has been 20, 8-10 year old kids, the guy would have stood out. Then if the Sun had used that photo, then yes that would be been deliberately deceptive.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother ialmost anything else they make.
About 12 or 13 years ago I started by current day job. The people I worked with were wine obsessives. En Primeur, wine cellars, etc. etc.
The major lessons I learnt were:
* There's a massive difference between a 10 pound bottle of wine and a 40 pound one (or, indeed, a 25 pound one). * There's barely any difference between a 40 pound bottle and a 200 pound one. * Red Burgundy is monumentally overpriced. Red Bordeaux is simply overpriced. * There is good value in France, but you need to head to the Rhone and the rest of Southern France. * Australia and America produce some amazing - and amazingly consistent - wines, and if you're fishing in the 25/quid a bottle you'll struggle to do better. (And if you want to spend a bit more, St Henri and Ridge Montebello are the equal of 400 pound French wines.) * English sparking wine is much better than French at any given price point. * Don't forget to drink your wine.
Agree with all of that. After my recent trip to the Chilean winelands I'd say Chile is about to enter the list of great wine countries. Ditto South Africa, perhaps.
Even Bolivia now makes really nice "high altitude" wine.
Best value in France is the southern Rhone valley and Languedoc.
Having just returned from Avignon with a couple of bottles of Tourbillion white Chateauneuf-de-Pape, I can heartily agree.
Another point I'd add is that the best budget red I've ever had was Californian. Think it was about £11 quid and Pinot from Whole Foods in Kensington High St. I can't remember much more. Wish I could; it was bloody love.y
The great democratisation of wine making over the last 40 years - led by Oz and California - has proven one thing, above all: it isn't that difficult to make really fucking good wine. You need science and dedication and the right soil, climate, etc, but it can be done. There is no magic, no mystique. Terroir is a bit of a myth.
French wine will only hold on to its prestige if it can sustain that myth. A struggle.
Could you maybe pitch a TV series consisting of you visiting France and telling French winemakers this?
It would be cracking viewing. Like googlebox for gourmands.
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
About 12 or 13 years ago I started by current day job. The people I worked with were wine obsessives. En Primeur, wine cellars, etc. etc.
The major lessons I learnt were:
* There's a massive difference between a 10 pound bottle of wine and a 40 pound one (or, indeed, a 25 pound one). * There's barely any difference between a 40 pound bottle and a 200 pound one. * Red Burgundy is monumentally overpriced. Red Bordeaux is simply overpriced. * There is good value in France, but you need to head to the Rhone and the rest of Southern France. * Australia and America produce some amazing - and amazingly consistent - wines, and if you're fishing in the 25/quid a bottle you'll struggle to do better. (And if you want to spend a bit more, St Henri and Ridge Montebello are the equal of 400 pound French wines.) * English sparking wine is much better than French at any given price point. * Don't forget to drink your wine.
Unless you get a liquid dividend from a vineyard investment that's been producing a case and a half a year for 20 years
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
About 12 or 13 years ago I started by current day job. The people I worked with were wine obsessives. En Primeur, wine cellars, etc. etc.
The major lessons I learnt were:
* There's a massive difference between a 10 pound bottle of wine and a 40 pound one (or, indeed, a 25 pound one). * There's barely any difference between a 40 pound bottle and a 200 pound one. * Red Burgundy is monumentally overpriced. Red Bordeaux is simply overpriced. * There is good value in France, but you need to head to the Rhone and the rest of Southern France. * Australia and America produce some amazing - and amazingly consistent - wines, and if you're fishing in the 25/quid a bottle you'll struggle to do better. (And if you want to spend a bit more, St Henri and Ridge Montebello are the equal of 400 pound French wines.) * English sparking wine is much better than French at any given price point. * Don't forget to drink your wine.
Unless you get a liquid dividend from a vineyard investment that's been producing a case and a half a year for 20 years
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
Villa Sandahl's produce is, sadly, mostly snapped up by the Swedish state monopoly off-licence chain. Fortunately the winery is only about 25 miles from my house.
I'm envious as Balaton is gorgeous! I had been thinking vaguely about buying a holiday place in Central Europe, probably Czech R tbh, but am worried now that big B may have put the kibosh on it. How easy was it to buy?
Not too hard, but I had Hungarian friends (including lawyer friends) to help me. When I bought it was difficult buying in the national park area - that may have changed now though.
The Balaton area is reasonably prosperous and very much a second home area already for Budapest professionals. You should be aware that most of the Hungarian countryside offers poor job prospects for locals and many parts outside tourist areas are depopulating. I imagine that is true throughout central and Eastern Europe. What looks scenic may be a village in long term decline, so bear that in mind,
They're depopulating because they all want to come and live in England (and elsewhere in western Europe), under absolute Freedom of Movement. Which you favour.
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
Villa Sandahl's produce is, sadly, mostly snapped up by the Swedish state monopoly off-licence chain. Fortunately the winery is only about 25 miles from my house.
I'm envious as Balaton is gorgeous! I had been thinking vaguely about buying a holiday place in Central Europe, probably Czech R tbh, but am worried now that big B may have put the kibosh on it. How easy was it to buy?
Not too hard, but I had Hungarian friends (including lawyer friends) to help me. When I bought it was difficult buying in the national park area - that may have changed now though.
The Balaton area is reasonably prosperous and very much a second home area already for Budapest professionals. You should be aware that most of the Hungarian countryside offers poor job prospects for locals and many parts outside tourist areas are depopulating. I imagine that is true throughout central and Eastern Europe. What looks scenic may be a village in long term decline, so bear that in mind,
They're depopulating because they all want to come and live in England (and elsewhere in western Europe), under absolute Freedom of Movement. Which you favour.
SPOT ON
Wait. So, if there are villages that are losing people, should governments enact laws to prevent them leaving?
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
Taking a few dozen refugees/migrants is frankly a complete non story, in the grand scheme of things, and in any case aren't you forgetting it's the blessed Cruella who has let them in? Shame on the Sun for whipping up hysteria.
They're not the only newspaper to have been playing fast and loose on this story:
Of course some medical tests could be made to ascertain ages but for some reason the refugee industry opposes that.
There's also the issue of the male:female ratio - has that been revealed or is it another thing that would be 'unethical' to ask ?
I'm in favour of medical tests to ascertain these migrants' ages. I'm also against wilfully deceptive journalism.
I might be wrong, but I don't believe the Sun were being willfully deceptive in this case. I believe the photos were taken by Getty and sold as all pictures of new migrants.
They clearly went for the oldest looking photo, not caring that he was never classed as a child refugee.
After been presented by those photos by a well respected photo agency, why wouldn't they not think given that given the other 20 were also adult looking I don't believe in this case the Sun were being deliberately deceptive.
If it has been 20, 8-10 year old kids, the guy would have stood out. Then if the Sun had used that photo, then yes that would be been deliberately deceptive.
The fact he didn't look out of place says it all.
oh stop it. It was a blatant lie by the Sun. And teenagers (16-18) can look old. and its only 14 refugees,so who gives a shit?
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
Villa Sandahl's produce is, sadly, mostly snapped up by the Swedish state monopoly off-licence chain. Fortunately the winery is only about 25 miles from my house.
I'm envious as Balaton is gorgeous! I had been thinking vaguely about buying a holiday place in Central Europe, probably Czech R tbh, but am worried now that big B may have put the kibosh on it. How easy was it to buy?
Not too hard, but I had Hungarian friends (including lawyer friends) to help me. When I bought it was difficult buying in the national park area - that may have changed now though.
The Balaton area is reasonably prosperous and very much a second home area already for Budapest professionals. You should be aware that most of the Hungarian countryside offers poor job prospects for locals and many parts outside tourist areas are depopulating. I imagine that is true throughout central and Eastern Europe. What looks scenic may be a village in long term decline, so bear that in mind,
They're depopulating because they all want to come and live in England (and elsewhere in western Europe), under absolute Freedom of Movement. Which you favour.
SPOT ON
Wait. So, should if there are villages that are losing people, should governments enact laws to prevent them leaving?
Or should we let the market work things out?
No not try and stop them leaving but try and understand why they are leaving. And try and provide the conditions they want to stay.
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
Villa Sandahl's produce is, sadly, mostly snapped up by the Swedish state monopoly off-licence chain. Fortunately the winery is only about 25 miles from my house.
I'm envious as Balaton is gorgeous! I had been thinking vaguely about buying a holiday place in Central Europe, probably Czech R tbh, but am worried now that big B may have put the kibosh on it. How easy was it to buy?
Not too hard, but I had Hungarian friends (including lawyer friends) to help me. When I bought it was difficult buying in the national park area - that may have changed now though.
The Balaton area is reasonably prosperous and very much a second home area already for Budapest professionals. You should be aware that most of the Hungarian countryside offers poor job prospects for locals and many parts outside tourist areas are depopulating. I imagine that is true throughout central and Eastern Europe. What looks scenic may be a village in long term decline, so bear that in mind,
They're depopulating because they all want to come and live in England (and elsewhere in western Europe), under absolute Freedom of Movement. Which you favour.
The dynamic is more one of countryside to city. Shut down all the borders tomorrow and there still aren't going to be many jobs in such places.
It isn't very different from what has happened in rural England over the last couple of generations. There's a reason why I don't still live in rural Suffolk where my parents still live - the prospects weren't good enough.
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
Villa Sandahl's produce is, sadly, mostly snapped up by the Swedish state monopoly off-licence chain. Fortunately the winery is only about 25 miles from my house.
I'm envious as Balaton is gorgeous! I had been thinking vaguely about buying a holiday place in Central Europe, probably Czech R tbh, but am worried now that big B may have put the kibosh on it. How easy was it to buy?
Not too hard, but I had Hungarian friends (including lawyer friends) to help me. When I bought it was difficult buying in the national park area - that may have changed now though.
The Balaton area is reasonably prosperous and very much a second home area already for Budapest professionals. You should be aware that most of the Hungarian countryside offers poor job prospects for locals and many parts outside tourist areas are depopulating. I imagine that is true throughout central and Eastern Europe. What looks scenic may be a village in long term decline, so bear that in mind,
Thanks. I know the Czech Rep pretty well and I get the impression those factors are less albeit not absent there. Although as you suggest it's a matter of picking the right spot.
Pictures were by Getty and the other 30+ individuals photographed that looked 25+...not all interpreters...and Home Office own stats show 2/3 of all those who claim to be children turn out not to be. Disgraceful Bad Al tactics by that tw@tterer to try to shut down a real story.
Taking a few dozen refugees/migrants is frankly a complete non story, in the grand scheme of things, and in any case aren't you forgetting it's the blessed Cruella who has let them in? Shame on the Sun for whipping up hysteria.
They're not the only newspaper to have been playing fast and loose on this story:
Of course some medical tests could be made to ascertain ages but for some reason the refugee industry opposes that.
There's also the issue of the male:female ratio - has that been revealed or is it another thing that would be 'unethical' to ask ?
I'm in favour of medical tests to ascertain these migrants' ages. I'm also against wilfully deceptive journalism.
I might be wrong, but I don't believe the Sun were being willfully deceptive in this case. I believe the photos were taken by Getty and sold as all pictures of new migrants.
They clearly went for the oldest looking photo, not caring that he was never classed as a child refugee.
After been presented by those photos by a well respected photo agency, why wouldn't they not think given that given the other 20 were also adult looking I don't believe in this case the Sun were being deliberately deceptive.
If it has been 20, 8-10 year old kids, the guy would have stood out. Then if the Sun had used that photo, then yes that would be been deliberately deceptive.
The fact he didn't look out of place says it all.
oh stop it. It was a blatant lie by the Sun. And teenagers (16-18) can look old. and its only 14 refugees,so who gives a shit?
Oh stop it.
c. 60% of 'child' migrants who have their age questioned turn out to not be children.
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
Villa Sandahl's produce is, sadly, mostly snapped up by the Swedish state monopoly off-licence chain. Fortunately the winery is only about 25 miles from my house.
I'm envious as Balaton is gorgeous! I had been thinking vaguely about buying a holiday place in Central Europe, probably Czech R tbh, but am worried now that big B may have put the kibosh on it. How easy was it to buy?
Not too al and Eastern Europe. What looks scenic may be a village in long term decline, so bear that in mind,
They're depopulating because they all want to come and live in England (and elsewhere in western Europe), under absolute Freedom of Movement. Which you favour.
SPOT ON
Wait. So, should if there are villages that are losing people, should governments enact laws to prevent them leaving?
Or should we let the market work things out?
The market is rigged by our absurdly generous, non-contributory benefits laws, as you have already noted.
I hate to be nasty, but I will not weep if Brexit means the thousands of Romanian and Bulgarian rough sleepers in London have to go home.
I think we could learn a lot from the Swiss, who manage to combine even more open borders than ours (they signed up via referendum to be members of Schengen) with a zero tolerence attitude towards foreign beggars.
Sparkling wines do have a role in seduction. Ladies are suckers for them, but beyond that they are pretty pointless. Still wines are far better to drink.
Mojitos if I am feeling cheap and sparkling rose if I am feeling generous has served me well over the years.
'The meme has broken out and gone viral. The refugee charities only have themselves to blame, the original batch of refugees was, genuinely, so absurdly skewed to older, male refugees (some in their 30s, I'd say) it made everyone distrust the entire exercise.'
There was an 'expert' on Radio 4 news this evening that said out of the last 900 so called child refugees that had arrived in the UK and had their ages checked over 600 were bogus.
Nail, head, hit. I have tried putting this basic question to Remainers and not once had a satisfactory answer.
Four questions they always struggle to answer:
1. If Europe has chosen the right model of cooperation then why, half a century after the Treaty of Rome, has no other region of the world gone anywhere near replicating the EU? 2. Why, uniquely in all the world, are European states and peoples deemed to be incapable and undeserving of sovereign self-government? 3. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the number of extra people from abroad that this country can successfully integrate in any one year? 4. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the total number of people that this country should be expected to sustain within its territory?
For any libertarian, surely the answer to 4 is "let the market decide". More people come, the cost of living rises, it becomes a less attractive destination.
England's population in 5000BC might have been 5,000. In 1801 it was under 8 million.
It isn't immediately obvious to me that we are reaching capacity just yet. While our landmass is broadly unchanged in that period, our ability to use it more effectively has improved massively in that time.
And the question then must be at what point is your opinion on where total capacity is ?
For my point its where people feel it has been reached and the referendum seems to point many years ago.
More than that, what is the basis for working out total capacity? Is it how many we could feed with modern agriculture (or indeed mycoprotein manufacture) during a WW2 style blockade (or whatever the modern equivalent would look like), or is it something else?
To my looking a population rise of at least 7 million from today seems inevitable in the coming decades, as the baby boom fills out the older rows of the population chart and we use immigration to balance out workers / pensioners somewhat whilst targetting an eventual plateau figure. After we reach that plateau, do we then have to let the balloon down a bit or not.
Malthusian predictions of doom will be right one day, but I have never happened on a credibly worked out answer as to when that might be.
'The meme has broken out and gone viral. The refugee charities only have themselves to blame, the original batch of refugees was, genuinely, so absurdly skewed to older, male refugees (some in their 30s, I'd say) it made everyone distrust the entire exercise.'
There was an 'expert' on Radio 4 news this evening that said out of the last 900 so called child refugees that had arrived in the UK and had their ages checked over 600 were bogus.
Home Office own figures show it isn't the odd one or two (which will always happen), its as the "expert" said, 2/3s....
Sparkling wines do have a role in seduction. Ladies are suckers for them, but beyond that they are pretty pointless. Still wines are far better to drink.
Mojitos if I am feeling cheap and sparkling rose if I am feeling generous has served me well over the years.
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
About 12 or 13 years ago I started by current day job. The people I worked with were wine obsessives. En Primeur, wine cellars, etc. etc.
The major lessons I learnt were:
* There's a massive difference between a 10 pound bottle of wine and a 40 pound one (or, indeed, a 25 pound one). * There's barely any difference between a 40 pound bottle and a 200 pound one. * Red Burgundy is monumentally overpriced. Red Bordeaux is simply overpriced. * There is good value in France, but you need to head to the Rhone and the rest of Southern France. * Australia and America produce some amazing - and amazingly consistent - wines, and if you're fishing in the 25/quid a bottle you'll struggle to do better. (And if you want to spend a bit more, St Henri and Ridge Montebello are the equal of 400 pound French wines.) * English sparking wine is much better than French at any given price point. * Don't forget to drink your wine.
Unless you get a liquid dividend from a vineyard investment that's been producing a case and a half a year for 20 years
'The meme has broken out and gone viral. The refugee charities only have themselves to blame, the original batch of refugees was, genuinely, so absurdly skewed to older, male refugees (some in their 30s, I'd say) it made everyone distrust the entire exercise.'
There was an 'expert' on Radio 4 news this evening that said out of the last 900 so called child refugees that had arrived in the UK and had their ages checked over 600 were bogus.
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
About 12 or 13 years ago I started by current day job. The people I worked with were wine obsessives. En Primeur, wine cellars, etc. etc.
The major lessons I learnt were:
* There's a massive difference between a 10 pound bottle of wine and a 40 pound one (or, indeed, a 25 pound one). * There's barely any difference between a 40 pound bottle and a 200 pound one. * Red Burgundy is monumentally overpriced. Red Bordeaux is simply overpriced. * There is good value in France, but you need to head to the Rhone and the rest of Southern France. * Australia and America produce some amazing - and amazingly consistent - wines, and if you're fishing in the 25/quid a bottle you'll struggle to do better. (And if you want to spend a bit more, St Henri and Ridge Montebello are the equal of 400 pound French wines.) * English sparking wine is much better than French at any given price point. * Don't forget to drink your wine.
Unless you get a liquid dividend from a vineyard investment that's been producing a case and a half a year for 20 years
The "questioned" there isn't a random survey, it's people who officials thought may well not be children. What your number shows is that when officials make an initial assessment that somebody isn't a child and make further enquiries, 2/3 of the time they end up agreeing with their initial assessment.
It's a total of 371 people found to be not really children out of all the refugees in Britain, but on its own that doesn't tell you much about whether there are lots of people getting away with pretending to be children, because at the one end there may be lots they don't suspect, and at the other you don't know whether their final 371 are all really adults.
It's interesting how the question of why France cannot properly look after some of the Calais migrants never seems to be answered by those who think the UK ought to take them in. After all, on some measures France is a wealthier country than the UK.
Worth noting, as we're on the subject, that fully 800,000 new National Insurance numbers were given out in 2015-2016, mostly to EU nationals.
800,000. In a year. Dwell on that. In one single year.
Free Movement on this scale really is and was unsustainable.
It is.
However, unless you address the root causes that result in Pret on Picadilly unable to find British workers for 11.50/hour, while there areas with 30% unemployment within walking distance, then you are attempting to cure the disease solely by targeting the symptoms.
One of the reasons for leaving the EU is that it will finally (albeit in about fifteen years and after two changes of government and a nasty recession) force us to re-evaluate our tax and benefits and education systems.
It's interesting how the question of why France cannot properly look after some of the Calais migrants never seems to be answered by those who think the UK ought to take them in. After all, on some measures France is a wealthier country than the UK.
Its the elephant in the room along with "why haven't you claimed asylum".....my understanding is on numerous occasions officials have offered to assist them make their claim.
It's interesting how the question of why France cannot properly look after some of the Calais migrants never seems to be answered by those who think the UK ought to take them in. After all, on some measures France is a wealthier country than the UK.
It's because it's better politics in France to encourage migrants to move to England.
If you are in the US or Australia, there are local sparkling wines that never make it to the UK that are excellent and are £10/bottle rather than £30.
I really need to check out the US wines as I have not paid them much attention.
I stumbled across a restaurant the other day that runs a champagne Fridays promotion which makes their Ridgeview Rose £25 a bottle. At Waitrose it would be £34 (inc delivery) unless buying in bulk.
My brother in law knows a thing or two about wine and rates US very highly. I'm not that familiar but if you like decent Aussie wine, they're along similar lines as far as I can see.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
About 12 or 13 years ago I started by current day job. The people I worked with were wine obsessives. En Primeur, wine cellars, etc. etc.
The major lessons I learnt were:
* There's a massive difference between a 10 pound bottle of wine and a 40 pound one (or, indeed, a 25 pound one). * There's barely any difference between a 40 pound bottle and a 200 pound one. * Red Burgundy is monumentally overpriced. Red Bordeaux is simply overpriced. * There is good value in France, but you need to head to the Rhone and the rest of Southern France. * Australia and America produce some amazing - and amazingly consistent - wines, and if you're fishing in the 25/quid a bottle you'll struggle to do better. (And if you want to spend a bit more, St Henri and Ridge Montebello are the equal of 400 pound French wines.) * English sparking wine is much better than French at any given price point. * Don't forget to drink your wine.
Unless you get a liquid dividend from a vineyard investment that's been producing a case and a half a year for 20 years
Aye - actually not sure if I have any of the Dujac there, but do have plenty of other stuff & as my wife doesn't drink never have a chance to open it...
Australia has a hollowed out economy. Mining and banks, and their servants selling them burgers. The banks are pretty vulnerable to a real estate bubble too.
Don't forget the world's biggest debt fuelled housing and construction boom!
Negative gearing a gogo!
If you explained negative gearing to someone in (say) Germany, they simply wouldn't understand. It's like the government was attempting to encourage a housing bubble:
"Yes, yes, buy a second property, get a 100% mortgage on it, and rent it out for less than the mortgage payments, but actually make money thanks to the tax system!"
I think what must have happened is the Aussie PM asked for some fair dinkum policies and the wonks in Canberra thought he said 'fed income'.
Comments
Trump really is absolutely fucking desprerstw
The best value is in non-French old world wines.
Minerals are just there; nobody can take them away. They will always be yours to sell at whatever time you choose. Financial services are much, much less secure. You're right about the taxes, exports, etc, but it's still a crap comparison.
I went to a wine festival in Hungary last year, not planned just happened on it and was bowled over by the variety and quality at a good price. If you see Villa Sandahl anywhere, I recommend their Olaszreisling and indeed almost anything else they make.
It's precisely because we can't lead in the EU, and the EU appears almost unable to enact even tiny reforms, that we are off.
Only in the last few days the people of Wallonia have torpedoed a trade deal with Canada. We would do far more trade with Canada than these Walloons, we are much more numerous and have far closer ties with Canada, and yet the deal is dead because of them. This is a clear example of EU membership harming our interests.
"Denbies Chalk Ridge Rose 2010 was the only still rosé out of 367 different bottles submitted from 21 countries to win a gold medal at the IWC, widely regarded as the most important of the many international wine competitions."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/wine/8518946/English-rose-wins-gold-trumping-French-and-American-rivals.html
You can have a case of Thornbridge beers for the same price as a bottle of English bubbly pretending to be half decent. Or a bottle of single malt.
Spain is now pretty good for value, if you hunt about, I think, as well as Chile. Countries like Slovenia and some of its neighbours are still under-rated, but not too much of their output reaches the U.K.
1. If Europe has chosen the right model of cooperation then why, half a century after the Treaty of Rome, has no other region of the world gone anywhere near replicating the EU?
2. Why, uniquely in all the world, are European states and peoples deemed to be incapable and undeserving of sovereign self-government?
3. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the number of extra people from abroad that this country can successfully integrate in any one year?
4. Do you accept that there is any upper limit to the total number of people that this country should be expected to sustain within its territory?
These questions elicit dissembling, evasion, and dishonest politicians' answers that reveal nothing - except from those who are either very fed up with being asked them or very honest, whose answers broadly speaking boil down to "They will do when they finally realise how brilliant it is," "Because the proles are so stupid and violent that they will all go to war with each other again if given half a chance," "No," and "No." These are not particularly satisfactory responses, but European integration has nothing to do with giving satisfactory responses to ordinary voters and everything to do with demonstrating to said voters that only one path and one series of choices is good for them, and they will be made to walk the path and take the appropriate decisions whether they bloody well want to or not.
It hurt like hell to enter as an economic basket case.
And Delors et al made it feel worse in the 80s / early 90s. It felt like we could never compete for influence with a Franco-German alliance and a Commission populated with such unashamed supra nationalists.
But just at the moment the Eurosceptic movement proper began (mid 90s) things actually began to go our way.
The single market started firing on cyclinders. And enlargement to the East reduced the automatic influence (and hence weakened the utility) of Franco-German manoeuvres. The new members spoke English too - or at least they did not speak French).
It was in the 2000s that we failed to seize the opportunity to truly lead in Europe. The Euosceptics were still too happy to froth (and felt justified in doing so given our near miss with the Euro), and Blair spent all his chips on Iraq.
We are where we are.
We have an opportunity again - by necessity now - to help shape a new architecture for Europe. We all know the EU is in many respects unsustainable. We could, with vision, help nudge Europe as a whole toward something else.
But, as others have said above, May is probably too focused on domestic affairs.
http://www.wine-searcher.com/regions-morey-saint-denis+monts+luisants
Namely the increase in inequality and the decrease in socioeconomic mobility.
Explanation - previously if a worker increased their productivity there would be a strong likelihood of an increase in their earnings. But now the fruits of this increase in productivity is being kept by the directors / fatcats / 1%. The worker therefore has no incentive to increase productivity.
On 1. The entire history of Europe has led the way on forms of political organisation, from the ancient Greeks through Rome and the renaissance to Magna Carta and revolutions and parliamentary democracy. We are always first. And the process was kick-started by the desire to put behind us generations of inter-national warfare.
2. is partly the same question as 1, and partly an observation that as economic power gravitates upwards from national companies to global corporations, the models of accountability and governance need to change in parallel. Otherwise Apple, Microsoft, Amazon and MacDonalds get to rule the world without any genuine control or accountability.
On 3 & 4 there are obviously limits - but there is no reason why 1 & 2 should necessarily mean unlimited migration. And in any case the biggest migration pressure we face now is from people from the Middle East (and to a lesser extent sub-Saharan and the Horn of Africa) wanting to come to the EU, with boatloads of them arriving every day. The EU is part of the solution (insofar as there is one), not the problem. And there'll still be as many people trying to enter the UK from France and elsewhere after Brexit (unless exit turns us into an unpleasant basket case, of course).
A Chinese guy poured some coke into his wine: he was criticized by a Brit for doing so.
"I'll stop pouring coke in my wine when you stop putting milk in your tea"
From Europe, to Corbyn.
From Syrian refugees to Trump.
Iraq is the rotting corpse in our closet.
And we're all implicated.
I say it is Conservative voters who were tempted by UKIP but persuaded to come home by the thought of Red Ed & the SNP, and the promise of a referendum.
They now have a majority, an ostensibly more right wing leader, a referendum win, and a Massive poll lead.
Without the 'Ed in Salmonds pocket' poster we would not have voted to leave the EU.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/who-killed-the-car-industry-20151112-gkx1c8.html
Australia has a hollowed out economy. Mining and banks, and their servants selling them burgers. The banks are pretty vulnerable to a real estate bubble too.
31 McMullin
27 Trump
24 Clinton
http://media.wix.com/ugd/3bebb2_98fe8b3559f64960a573ecad7dc22ec9.pdf
My current favourite red is Roger Belland's Pommard:
http://www.domaine-belland-roger.com/english/wines-roger-belland.htm
https://twitter.com/bjokie/status/788748072952143873
I read today that a green MEP is leading a revolt against Juncker's seeking his resignation over Luxembourg's tax arrangements. How he is still in Office after losing the UK is beyond belief
The major lessons I learnt were:
* There's a massive difference between a 10 pound bottle of wine and a 40 pound one (or, indeed, a 25 pound one).
* There's barely any difference between a 40 pound bottle and a 200 pound one.
* Red Burgundy is monumentally overpriced. Red Bordeaux is simply overpriced.
* There is good value in France, but you need to head to the Rhone and the rest of Southern France.
* Australia and America produce some amazing - and amazingly consistent - wines, and if you're fishing in the 25/quid a bottle you'll struggle to do better. (And if you want to spend a bit more, St Henri and Ridge Montebello are the equal of 400 pound French wines.)
* English sparking wine is much better than French at any given price point.
* Don't forget to drink your wine.
There's also the issue of the male:female ratio - has that been revealed or is it another thing that would be 'unethical' to ask ?
These provisions will likely be dropped if it continues to stall.
Whose customers vote for Trump/Clinton? https://t.co/HlcqWV5Jkf
It isn't immediately obvious to me that we are reaching capacity just yet. While our landmass is broadly unchanged in that period, our ability to use it more effectively has improved massively in that time.
Another point I'd add is that the best budget red I've ever had was Californian. Think it was about £11 quid and Pinot from Whole Foods in Kensington High St. I can't remember much more. Wish I could; it was bloody love.y
"Yes, yes, buy a second property, get a 100% mortgage on it, and rent it out for less than the mortgage payments, but actually make money thanks to the tax system!"
For my point its where people feel it has been reached and the referendum seems to point many years ago.
The Balaton area is reasonably prosperous and very much a second home area already for Budapest professionals. You should be aware that most of the Hungarian countryside offers poor job prospects for locals and many parts outside tourist areas are depopulating. I imagine that is true throughout central and Eastern Europe. What looks scenic may be a village in long term decline, so bear that in mind,
If it has been 20, 8-10 year old kids, the guy would have stood out. Then if the Sun had used that photo, then yes that would be been deliberately deceptive.
The fact he didn't look out of place says it all.
It would be cracking viewing. Like googlebox for gourmands.
Winebox
Or should we let the market work things out?
It isn't very different from what has happened in rural England over the last couple of generations. There's a reason why I don't still live in rural Suffolk where my parents still live - the prospects weren't good enough.
c. 60% of 'child' migrants who have their age questioned turn out to not be children.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/18/two-thirds-of-child-refugees-entering-uk-found-to-be-adults-figu/
'The meme has broken out and gone viral. The refugee charities only have themselves to blame, the original batch of refugees was, genuinely, so absurdly skewed to older, male refugees (some in their 30s, I'd say) it made everyone distrust the entire exercise.'
There was an 'expert' on Radio 4 news this evening that said out of the last 900 so called child refugees that had arrived in the UK and had their ages checked over 600 were bogus.
To my looking a population rise of at least 7 million from today seems inevitable in the coming decades, as the baby boom fills out the older rows of the population chart and we use immigration to balance out workers / pensioners somewhat whilst targetting an eventual plateau figure. After we reach that plateau, do we then have to let the balloon down a bit or not.
Malthusian predictions of doom will be right one day, but I have never happened on a credibly worked out answer as to when that might be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domaine_Dujac
@DavMicRot
15-20% of GOP voters not voting for Trump think he sexually assaults women & Clinton has better temperament. Hard for him to get back.
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I don't know where those stats come from, but that seems (to me) like quite a small %
ie; Among GOP voters who aren't voting for trump, I'd expect a higher % to agree with those statements.
It's a total of 371 people found to be not really children out of all the refugees in Britain, but on its own that doesn't tell you much about whether there are lots of people getting away with pretending to be children, because at the one end there may be lots they don't suspect, and at the other you don't know whether their final 371 are all really adults.
However, unless you address the root causes that result in Pret on Picadilly unable to find British workers for 11.50/hour, while there areas with 30% unemployment within walking distance, then you are attempting to cure the disease solely by targeting the symptoms.
One of the reasons for leaving the EU is that it will finally (albeit in about fifteen years and after two changes of government and a nasty recession) force us to re-evaluate our tax and benefits and education systems.
I was being idealistic. A pointless thing know.