Maybe we should troll the SNP by turning their own logic against them. Parts of Scotland that vote to Remain in the UK will be allowed to if they wish.
Fine, just so long as London is free to Remain in the EU.
And we've been through this before too.
Time to move on Alastair, you're rehashing the old arguments. Arguments that you've lost.
There's a difference between "arguments I've lost" and "arguments you disagree with". In time all bar the malevolent cretins will realise what a cul de sac we have wandered into with the vote to Leave.
Fior now, we must pursue Brexit because the people have spoken. The implications of that vote for society and for Britain will continue to unfold. Whether there is a Britain left at the end of that process must be very open to doubt now.
If we do Leave, on 'hard' terms, and make a real success of it I wonder how long in time it will be before the Remain cretins realise that perhaps they were wrong.
If we do leave, on "hard" terms and make a hash of it, I wonder how long it will be before the Leaver Divas realise that perhaps they were wrong.
Or will they simply deny that any other route could have been better.
OGH also not happy - tweeting like crazy about the LDs winning 'real' elections.
Yes it is strange that in real elections , the Conservative vote is down everywhere . Ah you say but these are only local elections held in October . And yet local elections held in the spring , last October and previous Octobers when Cameron was leader showed Conservatives quite willing to vote in local elections when national polls were much less favourable .
You don't want to listen to my rather useful local info on the Broadstone seat. You want it to be a sign of LD resurgence.
Clue no 1046 as to why it is not: few people even know for sure the name of the LD leader.
No I am not interested in your excuses why one particular result was bad for the Conservatives . What is your excuse for all the local election results being universally bad compared to those held when Cameron was leader ?
Universally bad. Guffaw.
We've had a tiny sample size.
And these are insignificant elections. For example, the Tories have a whopping majority on Poole council.....
No-one is underestimating that LDs are recovering some local election ground. But everyone ought to realise that nationally they're now almost an insignificance.
It might take 25 years before they get up to 50 seats again.
The tiny sample size will be around 150 by the end of this month with around 200,000 votes cast .
Yup, tiny.
not compared to an opinion poll of fewer than 2,000
Probably hugely different in who is being polled...
Maybe we should troll the SNP by turning their own logic against them. Parts of Scotland that vote to Remain in the UK will be allowed to if they wish.
Fine, just so long as London is free to Remain in the EU.
And we've been through this before too.
Time to move on Alastair, you're rehashing the old arguments. Arguments that you've lost.
There's a difference between "arguments I've lost" and "arguments you disagree with". In time all bar the malevolent cretins will realise what a cul de sac we have wandered into with the vote to Leave.
Fior now, we must pursue Brexit because the people have spoken. The implications of that vote for society and for Britain will continue to unfold. Whether there is a Britain left at the end of that process must be very open to doubt now.
If we do Leave, on 'hard' terms, and make a real success of it I wonder how long in time it will be before the Remain cretins realise that perhaps they were wrong.
If we do leave, on "hard" terms and make a hash of it, I wonder how long it will be before the Leaver Divas realise that perhaps they were wrong.
Or will they simply deny that any other route could have been better.
The U.K.’s exit negotiations with the European Union will be controlled by a select group of 12 ministers that includes all of the most Euroskeptic members of Theresa May’s cabinet, a further sign that the premier may be planning a clean break with the EU.
The committee will “oversee the negotiations on the withdrawal from the European Union and formation of a new relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Union; and policy on international trade,” according to an unpublished U.K. government document obtained by Bloomberg.
Surely we need to wait to the Autumn Statement before we see what is happening. If there is movement towards a contribution based benefits system we may have some leeway with the fom otherwise chances are its a hard exit.
The U.K.’s exit negotiations with the European Union will be controlled by a select group of 12 ministers that includes all of the most Euroskeptic members of Theresa May’s cabinet, a further sign that the premier may be planning a clean break with the EU.
The committee will “oversee the negotiations on the withdrawal from the European Union and formation of a new relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Union; and policy on international trade,” according to an unpublished U.K. government document obtained by Bloomberg.
Golly, Cernovich has 140m Twitter views a month. I'm amazed he hasn't been banned yet. They shadow banned Scott Adams last week until they were shamed out of it.
What is it with you and Trump, Plato? Genuinely interested. I didn't expect many regulars to be beating his particularly wee drum.
She can't help it.
She's a Trumpette involuntary.
I have made fun of Plato, but actually is she even still supporting Trump or just posting pieces of counter-narrative?
Plato - are you actually still supporting him? Is *anyone* on PB still supporting him?
There are still many Trumpers on PB.
Plato Taffys William Glenn Paul Bedfordshire
There are more...
I'd definitely vote for him if I lived in the USA - despite being a Cruz supporter in the primaries. Mostly for a better range of Supreme Court appointments.
Can't shame me on this - it's a culture war. If Hillary wins - she gives 30m illegals the vote and tilts the election base for generations in her favour.
And open borders - oh... what does that do bar growing the welfare base that vote Democrat - this is power play on a macro level. It's Tony v2.0
And how does Hillary - or any president - "give" 30m illegals the vote?
The U.K.’s exit negotiations with the European Union will be controlled by a select group of 12 ministers that includes all of the most Euroskeptic members of Theresa May’s cabinet, a further sign that the premier may be planning a clean break with the EU.
The committee will “oversee the negotiations on the withdrawal from the European Union and formation of a new relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Union; and policy on international trade,” according to an unpublished U.K. government document obtained by Bloomberg.
Surely we need to wait to the Autumn Statement before we see what is happening. If there is movement towards a contribution based benefits system we may have some leeway with the fom otherwise chances are its a hard exit.
@DavidAllenGreen: Brexit is a huge and complex legal challenge, and so the Cabinet Brexit committee has *nobody* from MoJ or Attorney-General's office. twitter.com/b_judah/status…
Golly, Cernovich has 140m Twitter views a month. I'm amazed he hasn't been banned yet. They shadow banned Scott Adams last week until they were shamed out of it.
What is it with you and Trump, Plato? Genuinely interested. I didn't expect many regulars to be beating his particularly wee drum.
She can't help it.
She's a Trumpette involuntary.
I have made fun of Plato, but actually is she even still supporting Trump or just posting pieces of counter-narrative?
Plato - are you actually still supporting him? Is *anyone* on PB still supporting him?
There are still many Trumpers on PB.
Plato Taffys William Glenn Paul Bedfordshire
There are more...
I'd definitely vote for him if I lived in the USA - despite being a Cruz supporter in the primaries. Mostly for a better range of Supreme Court appointments.
Can't shame me on this - it's a culture war. If Hillary wins - she gives 30m illegals the vote and tilts the election base for generations in her favour.
And open borders - oh... what does that do bar growing the welfare base that vote Democrat - this is power play on a macro level. It's Tony v2.0
And how does Hillary - or any president - "give" 30m illegals the vote?
Golly, Cernovich has 140m Twitter views a month. I'm amazed he hasn't been banned yet. They shadow banned Scott Adams last week until they were shamed out of it.
What is it with you and Trump, Plato? Genuinely interested. I didn't expect many regulars to be beating his particularly wee drum.
She can't help it.
She's a Trumpette involuntary.
I have made fun of Plato, but actually is she even still supporting Trump or just posting pieces of counter-narrative?
Plato - are you actually still supporting him? Is *anyone* on PB still supporting him?
There are still many Trumpers on PB.
Plato Taffys William Glenn Paul Bedfordshire
There are more...
I'd definitely vote for him if I lived in the USA - despite being a Cruz supporter in the primaries. Mostly for a better range of Supreme Court appointments.
Can't shame me on this - it's a culture war. If Hillary wins - she gives 30m illegals the vote and tilts the election base for generations in her favour.
And open borders - oh... what does that do bar growing the welfare base that vote Democrat - this is power play on a macro level. It's Tony v2.0
And how does Hillary - or any president - "give" 30m illegals the vote?
You are making the schoolboy error of trying to reason with Plato. Alistair tried it earlier. Never ends well.
Again, not what Remainers said before the vote. Of course we have sovereignty, they trilled, there's this A-50 button that we can simply push if things aren't going as we would wish.
Golly, Cernovich has 140m Twitter views a month. I'm amazed he hasn't been banned yet. They shadow banned Scott Adams last week until they were shamed out of it.
What is it with you and Trump, Plato? Genuinely interested. I didn't expect many regulars to be beating his particularly wee drum.
She can't help it.
She's a Trumpette involuntary.
I have made fun of Plato, but actually is she even still supporting Trump or just posting pieces of counter-narrative?
Plato - are you actually still supporting him? Is *anyone* on PB still supporting him?
There are still many Trumpers on PB.
Plato Taffys William Glenn Paul Bedfordshire
There are more...
I'd definitely vote for him if I lived in the USA - despite being a Cruz supporter in the primaries. Mostly for a better range of Supreme Court appointments.
Can't shame me on this - it's a culture war. If Hillary wins - she gives 30m illegals the vote and tilts the election base for generations in her favour.
And open borders - oh... what does that do bar growing the welfare base that vote Democrat - this is power play on a macro level. It's Tony v2.0
Agree with that entirely. She can destroy the USA with half a dozen Executive Orders.
The U.K.’s exit negotiations with the European Union will be controlled by a select group of 12 ministers that includes all of the most Euroskeptic members of Theresa May’s cabinet, a further sign that the premier may be planning a clean break with the EU.
The committee will “oversee the negotiations on the withdrawal from the European Union and formation of a new relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Union; and policy on international trade,” according to an unpublished U.K. government document obtained by Bloomberg.
Makes sense to have our toughest and most skeptic oversee negotiations in a Nixon to China sense. Most likely to get a good and universally acceptable deal that way and it's not as if our EU counterparts have nominated wallflowers.
And yet when you look at elections with much larger voter bases the Lib Dems do badly. -Down to one member of the London Assembly and overtaken by UKIP -Down to one Assembly member in Wales and loss of party status -Stands still in Scotland -Only gained back this year 44 Councillors out of the 280 Councillors lost in the same elections in 2012
Can they handle the truth?
TBF that was in a different political climate. The real test will be May 2017.
Maybe we should troll the SNP by turning their own logic against them. Parts of Scotland that vote to Remain in the UK will be allowed to if they wish.
Fine, just so long as London is free to Remain in the EU.
And we've been through this before too.
Time to move on Alastair, you're rehashing the old arguments. Arguments that you've lost.
There's a difference between "arguments I've lost" and "arguments you disagree with". In time all bar the malevolent cretins will realise what a cul de sac we have wandered into with the vote to Leave.
Fior now, we must pursue Brexit because the people have spoken. The implications of that vote for society and for Britain will continue to unfold. Whether there is a Britain left at the end of that process must be very open to doubt now.
If we do Leave, on 'hard' terms, and make a real success of it I wonder how long in time it will be before the Remain cretins realise that perhaps they were wrong.
If we do leave, on "hard" terms and make a hash of it, I wonder how long it will be before the Leaver Divas realise that perhaps they were wrong.
Or will they simply deny that any other route could have been better.
@DavidAllenGreen: Brexit is a huge and complex legal challenge, and so the Cabinet Brexit committee has *nobody* from MoJ or Attorney-General's office. twitter.com/b_judah/status…
Of course they don't.
The AG's office is their legal adviser not a member of the committee.
On balance, i think it's more supportive of Leave (says this Remainer).
It contradicts everything the headbangers said about trade before the vote
It reinforces it you loon. That the EU needs 28 nations to ratify a free trade deal that would be beneficial to the UK more than any other nation is completely ridiculous. Leaving and doing our own free trade agreement with Canada now looks like the only way we will be able to trade freely with them.
On balance, i think it's more supportive of Leave (says this Remainer).
It contradicts everything the headbangers said about trade before the vote
Really? Just think about that for a fraction of a second.
Unless you aren't counting him as a headbanger Boris Johnson made the argument to leave so we can sign our on trade deals because the EU doing so is "like trying to ride a vast pantomime horse, with 28 people blindly pulling in different directions."
Parliament is not required to take an opinion. I have already instructed the Government how to act. Parliament is a legislative, not executive, body.
Well, if it comes to that, the referendum was non-binding, so the government isn't required to take a blind bit of notice of your "instruction"!
Oh, dear. This nonsense again?
The government told Parliament that it would be binding, and Parliament didn't object.
The government then told the people that it would be binding.
Another enthusiast for the good old British constitution speaking, no doubt.
But perhaps it's unkind to tell such people they aren't giving Theresa May "binding instructions" when they go into the cubicle and pick up the pencil.
Remainers can say, look we won't get a decent deal agreed because the Walloons will veto.
Brexiters can say, look the EU is moribund and sclerotic and cannot even agree an FTA with Canada.
On balance, i think it's more supportive of Leave (says this Remainer).
Except the Remainers can't because A50 doesn't require each nation to ratify any deal, just a QMV and simple EUparl majority to carry it.
Everything the EU has done since out leave vote, from the EU Army, gumming up trade deals, trying to centralise insolvency procedure etc... shows that we made the right choice. They may not have done these things had we voted to Remain, at least not for a while but we can see what an unbridled integrationist EU looks like.
I had dinner with two American friends in London last night. They are staunch Republicans. They said they had held their noses and voted for Clinton. They are scared of Trump as President. It wasn't the sex but the danger his thin-skinned vindictiveness posed in foreign policy. Their votes are in Ohio.
OGH also not happy - tweeting like crazy about the LDs winning 'real' elections.
Yes it is strange that in real elections , the Conservative vote is down everywhere . Ah you say but these are only local elections held in October . And yet local elections held in the spring , last October and previous Octobers when Cameron was leader showed Conservatives quite willing to vote in local elections when national polls were much less favourable .
It is not uncommon for governments to lose ground in local elections in mid-term.
Labour consistently lost ground in local elections for thirteen years after 1997, but they still won two general elections during that period.
The Conservatives hold 43% of local council seats, the Lib Dems hold 9%. It would be amazing if the Conservatives were not incurring losses.
Yes it is common for governments to lose ground in local elections in mid term but not at the same time to be 15% ahead in national polls .
Weren't Labour that far ahead while they were losing grounds in the locals?
From 97 to 2003 inclusive Labour lost in net terms, councillor seats (>4,000) every year.
Not sure if this has already been posted. It's got some good info on the Brexit negotiating priorities of different EU countries, and also conveniently summaries some of the trade and migration statistics by country:
Comments
https://xkcd.com/762/
Allen Green's point seems to be that the EU is so sh8t we must stay.
Remainers can say, look we won't get a decent deal agreed because the Walloons will veto.
Brexiters can say, look the EU is moribund and sclerotic and cannot even agree an FTA with Canada.
On balance, i think it's more supportive of Leave (says this Remainer).
5 seats before, 5 seats afterwards.
These are the issues Trumpers fear.
Never ends well.
https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/786885769390620672
Again, not what Remainers said before the vote. Of course we have sovereignty, they trilled, there's this A-50 button that we can simply push if things aren't going as we would wish.
- 'Hard Brexit'
- 'No Brexit'
The AG's office is their legal adviser not a member of the committee.
However, JFK would never have been elected today, nor would most of the better presidents.
" .... Whose word no man relies on.
He never said a foolish thing,
Nor ever did a wise one."
Said of Charles II, but might apply to HRC today.
As a matter of interest what is it that the Waloons object to? It may be a very reasonable objection.
Unless you aren't counting him as a headbanger Boris Johnson made the argument to leave so we can sign our on trade deals because the EU doing so is "like trying to ride a vast pantomime horse, with 28 people blindly pulling in different directions."
How does this contradict that?
There are not enough faces to palm.
NEW THREAD
But perhaps it's unkind to tell such people they aren't giving Theresa May "binding instructions" when they go into the cubicle and pick up the pencil.
Everything the EU has done since out leave vote, from the EU Army, gumming up trade deals, trying to centralise insolvency procedure etc... shows that we made the right choice. They may not have done these things had we voted to Remain, at least not for a while but we can see what an unbridled integrationist EU looks like.
http://cicero-group.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Brexit-negotiations-The-View-from-the-EU.pdf