At least it makes a change from fecking *reepy *lowns.
A few years ago in wandering around a french supermarket looking for a few essentials to top up our stocks at the rental home, I was taken aback by the lack of soap products on offer. May be Unilever struggle in France?
At least it makes a change from fecking *reepy *lowns.
A few years ago in wandering around a french supermarket looking for a few essentials to top up our stocks at the rental home, I was taken aback by the lack of soap products on offer. May be Unilever struggle in France?
If you really, really want to shake up the establishment and the elite in the UK - if you want to rock them to their very core of their being - the best thing you could do is to break the UK up.
Yes, I'm sure the anti-'liberal elite', anti-intellectual, anti-establishment, PB Trumper Leavers will be promoting exactly that.
If you really, really want to shake up the establishment and the elite in the UK - if you want to rock them to their very core of their being - the best thing you could do is to break the UK up.
Have you encountered the sheer level of snobbery that prevails in say the top 30% of the population in Scotland? It's as bad as it is in England.
But I like the aim!
The best thing to do to achieve it would be to crack down on the private schools, especially the older boarding ones:
* remove their charity status;
* have central government seize their assets;
* and if parents try to send their offspring to live with paid strangers, then take their children into care, fine the parents, and put the parents on a register of those who represent a certain kind of danger to children. I wouldn't go so far as to advocate compulsory sterilisation or the wearing of special badges, but make it an offence for such parents not to notify the public authorities if they breed again, and jail them for any subsequent offence. Clearly cultural change is also needed, so have those who administer the new law acquaint themselves with the implementation and problems of denazification in post-war Germany.
* require compulsory psychological assessment for everyone who applies for a public sector job - such as judge, member of parliament, or civil servant (or those who are in effect civil servants, such as administrators of universities, the BBC, and health boards, and officers in the armed forces, MI6, etc.) - who attended a private boarding school; require similar checks for those who apply from that background for senior jobs at public limited companies; and don't employ as a testing psychologist anyone who attended such a school themselves or whose parents earned more than twice the average salary.
Also abolish the Oxford and Cambridge colleges:
* have central government seize all their assets;
* remove their rights to admit undergraduates to university;
* turn them into the halls of residence that they essentially are and randomise the allocation to different halls of residence of those students who choose to rent accommodation from the university.
Third, and not just at Oxford and Cambridge but at all British universities, end the system of giving applicants "offers". Just publish the entry requirements as most universities in the world do, and admit all applicants who meet them and still want to come when term starts.
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
I was a strong supporter of Scots Independence last time round and would be again this time.
I do however think that leaving the UK to remain in or rejoin the EU is both lunacy and undermines practically all the sound arguments for Independence.
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
Yes great - then have one after every bill and budget passes through Westminster just incase minds have been changed by every single event..
for reference the question was
""Should Scotland be an independent country?""
No mention of the EU.
Hmm. As I recall the EU referendum question was:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
No mention of leaving the Single Market, or appointing Liam "Wrecker" Fox to run our international trade affairs.
Funny old world.
It was consistently pointed out by remain in every media outlet and interview that this involved the single market and free movement. "Project fear" you may have heard about it? If not it Involved plagues and the end of western civilisation as we know it at one point. Surprised you don't remember?
Please continue dancing on the head of your EU pin though if you feel better for it
It, and situations elsewhere in the world, leads to the question: what would the state (in our case the UK government) have to do, in order for me to not only rebel peacefully against it, but to also take up arms against it; to actively rebel?
I don't really have an answer to the question. I'd like to think that if I was in wartime France I would have joined the resistance. But in reality, probably not.
'I cannot see Parliament blocking the move rather there would be lots of amendments and efforts to set conditions for the invocation.'
I can. Emma Reynolds let the cat out of the bag on the DP. If MPs don't like the terms - ie - no membership of the single market (and therefore the freedom of movement of people) - they will vote this down and the whole process will be finished. Membership of the EU is the driving force of all Left wing politicians, probably more than their own constituencies. I reckon Miliband, Clegg, etc would be happy to sacrifice their own seats to end Brexit.
In what way would it end Brexit?
1. If they sacrificed their own seats, it'd imply a substantially increased Con majority, possibly bolstered by a UKIP block. That new government could then enact Brexit.
2. Once A50 is invoked, it's near-enough impossible to stop the process. If parliament doesn't like the exit terms then that just means it will be a chaotic rather than an ordered exit.
The referendum was advisory and it was close. Those are simple facts.
Only one of those is a fact. The other is a silly meme invented by people who want to disregard the democratic decision of the British people.
No, I think you'll find that it was advisory. Also that 3.8 in 100 is quite a small number.
If you really, really want to shake up the establishment and the elite in the UK - if you want to rock them to their very core of their being - the best thing you could do is to break the UK up.
Have you encountered the sheer level of snobbery that prevails in say the top 30% of the population in Scotland? It's as bad as it is in England.
But I like the aim!
The best thing to do to achieve it would be to crack down on the private schools, especially the older boarding ones:
* remove their charity status;
* have central government seize their assets;
* and if parents try to send their offspring to live with paid strangers, then take their children into care, fine the parents, and put the parents on a register of those who represent a certain kind of danger to children. I wouldn't go so far as to advocate compulsory sterilisation or the wearing of special badges, but make it an offence for such parents not to notify the public authorities if they breed again, and jail them for any subsequent offence. Clearly cultural change is also needed, so have those who administer the new law acquaint themselves with the implementation and problems of denazification in post-war Germany.
* require compulsory psychological assessment for everyone who applies for a public sector job - such as judge, member of parliament, or civil servant (or those who are in effect civil servants, such as administrators of universities, the BBC, and health boards, and officers in the armed forces, MI6, etc.) - who attended a private boarding school; require similar checks for those who apply from that background for senior jobs at public limited companies; and don't employ as a testing psychologist anyone who attended such a school themselves or whose parents earned more than twice the average salary.
Also abolish the Oxford and Cambridge colleges:
* have central government seize all their assets;
* remove their rights to admit undergraduates to university;
* turn them into the halls of residence that they essentially are and randomise the allocation to different halls of residence of those students who choose to rent accommodation from the university.
Third, and not just at Oxford and Cambridge but at all British universities, end the system of giving applicants "offers". Just publish the entry requirements as most universities in the world do, and admit all applicants who meet them and still want to come when term starts.
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
Yes great - then have one after every bill and budget passes through Westminster just incase minds have been changed by every single event..
for reference the question was
""Should Scotland be an independent country?""
No mention of the EU.
Hmm. As I recall the EU referendum question was:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
No mention of leaving the Single Market, or appointing Liam "Wrecker" Fox to run our international trade affairs.
Funny old world.
It was consistently pointed out by remain in every media outlet and interview that this involved the single market and free movement. "Project fear" you may have heard about it? If not it Involved plagues and the end of western civilisation as we know it at one point. Surprised you don't remember?
Please continue dancing on the head of your EU pin though if you feel better for it
SO because Project Fear LIED - its lie must become policy? As if none of us KNEW they were lying?
At least it makes a change from fecking *reepy *lowns.
A few years ago in wandering around a french supermarket looking for a few essentials to top up our stocks at the rental home, I was taken aback by the lack of soap products on offer. May be Unilever struggle in France?
Who is that on your avatar? You?
An Argentinian ex Minister that I once negotiated with.
It, and situations elsewhere in the world, leads to the question: what would the state (in our case the UK government) have to do, in order for me to not only rebel peacefully against it, but to also take up arms against it; to actively rebel?
I don't really have an answer to the question. I'd like to think that if I was in wartime France I would have joined the resistance. But in reality, probably not.
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
Yes great - then have one after every bill and budget passes through Westminster just incase minds have been changed by every single event..
for reference the question was
""Should Scotland be an independent country?""
No mention of the EU.
Hmm. As I recall the EU referendum question was:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
No mention of leaving the Single Market, or appointing Liam "Wrecker" Fox to run our international trade affairs.
Funny old world.
It was consistently pointed out by remain in every media outlet and interview that this involved the single market and free movement. "Project fear" you may have heard about it? If not it Involved plagues and the end of western civilisation as we know it at one point. Surprised you don't remember?
Please continue dancing on the head of your EU pin though if you feel better for it
SO because Project Fear LIED - its lie must become policy? As if none of us KNEW they were lying?
Yeah....end of western civilisation was a bit extreme I suppose. Maybe the people by then had Sussed out that both sides were lying and took the plague theme literally by placing it on all their houses.
Meanwhile the people still voted to leave. They could have still voted to Remain. They didn't.
At least it makes a change from fecking *reepy *lowns.
A few years ago in wandering around a french supermarket looking for a few essentials to top up our stocks at the rental home, I was taken aback by the lack of soap products on offer. May be Unilever struggle in France?
Who is that on your avatar? You?
An Argentinian ex Minister that I once negotiated with.
The thing is, she knows Parliament will have to grant her the right to do it. And her entire motive is for Parliament to block it, as they certainly must until the art 50 negotiations are over.
They must for at least 20 years. Just because Sturgeon wants to tear up the Edinburgh Agreement doesn't mean that Parliament should.
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
Yes great - then have one after every bill and budget passes through Westminster just incase minds have been changed by every single event..
for reference the question was
""Should Scotland be an independent country?""
No mention of the EU.
Hmm. As I recall the EU referendum question was:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
No mention of leaving the Single Market, or appointing Liam "Wrecker" Fox to run our international trade affairs.
Funny old world.
It was consistently pointed out by remain in every media outlet and interview that this involved the single market and free movement. "Project fear" you may have heard about it? If not it Involved plagues and the end of western civilisation as we know it at one point. Surprised you don't remember?
Please continue dancing on the head of your EU pin though if you feel better for it
SO because Project Fear LIED - its lie must become policy? As if none of us KNEW they were lying?
Yeah....end of western civilisation was a bit extreme I suppose. Maybe the people by then had Sussed out that both sides were lying and took the plague theme literally by placing it on all their houses.
Meanwhile the people still voted to leave. They could have still voted to Remain. They didn't.
You could say they were bribed. We’ll spend the money on the NHS. And don’t say that was never on the table. Because it was clear that it was.
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
Yes great - then have one after every bill and budget passes through Westminster just incase minds have been changed by every single event..
for reference the question was
""Should Scotland be an independent country?""
No mention of the EU.
Hmm. As I recall the EU referendum question was:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
No mention of leaving the Single Market, or appointing Liam "Wrecker" Fox to run our international trade affairs.
Funny old world.
It was consistently pointed out by remain in every media outlet and interview that this involved the single market and free movement. "Project fear" you may have heard about it? If not it Involved plagues and the end of western civilisation as we know it at one point. Surprised you don't remember?
Please continue dancing on the head of your EU pin though if you feel better for it
SO because Project Fear LIED - its lie must become policy? As if none of us KNEW they were lying?
Yeah....end of western civilisation was a bit extreme I suppose. Maybe the people by then had Sussed out that both sides were lying and took the plague theme literally by placing it on all their houses.
Meanwhile the people still voted to leave. They could have still voted to Remain. They didn't.
I think there was a realisation that they would never be asked again. It would then be full steam ahead, we would have voted for the superstate.
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
I was a strong supporter of Scots Independence last time round and would be again this time.
I do however think that leaving the UK to remain in or rejoin the EU is both lunacy and undermines practically all the sound arguments for Independence.
Fair enough, Richard. In any case, we can agree that the time has come for the Scots to go for it.
At least it makes a change from fecking *reepy *lowns.
A few years ago in wandering around a french supermarket looking for a few essentials to top up our stocks at the rental home, I was taken aback by the lack of soap products on offer. May be Unilever struggle in France?
Who is that on your avatar? You?
An Argentinian ex Minister that I once negotiated with.
Ah!
About 5 years later she turned up in that pic. Had a colourful career after and later was convicted. Was described as the "President's niece" which was probably a more horizontal affair.
Nicola Sturgeon warns that the right wing of the Tory party is seeking to "hijack" the EU referendum result. That goes down well with her cultish supporters, but SHE is the one who is trying to hijack the result, by acting as though it reverses the mandate given by the Scottish people in the indyref: a mandate to keep Scotland in Britain.
'I cannot see Parliament blocking the move rather there would be lots of amendments and efforts to set conditions for the invocation.'
I can. Emma Reynolds let the cat out of the bag on the DP. If MPs don't like the terms - ie - no membership of the single market (and therefore the freedom of movement of people) - they will vote this down and the whole process will be finished. Membership of the EU is the driving force of all Left wing politicians, probably more than their own constituencies. I reckon Miliband, Clegg, etc would be happy to sacrifice their own seats to end Brexit.
In what way would it end Brexit?
1. If they sacrificed their own seats, it'd imply a substantially increased Con majority, possibly bolstered by a UKIP block. That new government could then enact Brexit.
2. Once A50 is invoked, it's near-enough impossible to stop the process. If parliament doesn't like the exit terms then that just means it will be a chaotic rather than an ordered exit.
The referendum was advisory and it was close. Those are simple facts.
Only one of those is a fact. The other is a silly meme invented by people who want to disregard the democratic decision of the British people.
No, I think you'll find that it was advisory. Also that 3.8 in 100 is quite a small number.
So you are telling us that a team winning 4-3 in the last minute of injury time didn't actually win ?
Or a Labour Party only getting 2.8% more than the Conservatives isnt really in Government (leaving aside the 66 seat majority). I suppose you are going to tell us its possible to get a bit pregnant next.
Nicola Sturgeon warns that the right wing of the Tory party is seeking to "hijack" the EU referendum result. That goes down well with her cultish supporters, but SHE is the one who is trying to hijack the result, by acting as though it reverses the mandate given by the Scottish people in the indyref: a mandate to keep Scotland in Britain.
Nicola's just upset that she lost by a bigger margin than Remain.
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
Yes great - then have one after every bill and budget passes through Westminster just incase minds have been changed by every single event..
for reference the question was
""Should Scotland be an independent country?""
No mention of the EU.
Hmm. As I recall the EU referendum question was:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
No mention of leaving the Single Market, or appointing Liam "Wrecker" Fox to run our international trade affairs.
Funny old world.
It was consistently pointed out by remain in every media outlet and interview that this involved the single market and free movement. "Project fear" you may have heard about it? If not it Involved plagues and the end of western civilisation as we know it at one point. Surprised you don't remember?
Please continue dancing on the head of your EU pin though if you feel better for it
SO because Project Fear LIED - its lie must become policy? As if none of us KNEW they were lying?
It kind of beside the point. The referendum requested the the Government take us out of the EU. It is up the the Government (not Parliament) to do that in the way it finds most attractive, and for us to kick the buggers out in 2020 if we dont agree. Parliament has never had a say in the wording of treaties and such foreign affairs, there was no parliamentary vote on the wording or substance of either the Lisbon or Maastricht treaties, the government negotiated it and parliament either approved it, or didn't. Even critical treaties like the Treaty of Versailles were agreed and thrashed out by a small number of diplomats and government ministers and then parliament got to approve or disapprove. Why do we suddenly think it should now?
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
I was a strong supporter of Scots Independence last time round and would be again this time.
I do however think that leaving the UK to remain in or rejoin the EU is both lunacy and undermines practically all the sound arguments for Independence.
Fair enough, Richard. In any case, we can agree that the time has come for the Scots to go for it.
Yes, that's right. However, I don't think they will. The EU doesn't rate highly enough for it to swing 6% of votes, probably more now that we have endemic low oil prices which will have swung 2-3 points for No.
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
Yes great - then have one after every bill and budget passes through Westminster just incase minds have been changed by every single event..
for reference the question was
""Should Scotland be an independent country?""
No mention of the EU.
Hmm. As I recall the EU referendum question was:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
No mention of leaving the Single Market, or appointing Liam "Wrecker" Fox to run our international trade affairs.
Funny old world.
It was consistently pointed out by remain in every media outlet and interview that this involved the single market and free movement. "Project fear" you may have heard about it? If not it Involved plagues and the end of western civilisation as we know it at one point. Surprised you don't remember?
Please continue dancing on the head of your EU pin though if you feel better for it
SO because Project Fear LIED - its lie must become policy? As if none of us KNEW they were lying?
Yeah....end of western civilisation was a bit extreme I suppose. Maybe the people by then had Sussed out that both sides were lying and took the plague theme literally by placing it on all their houses.
Meanwhile the people still voted to leave. They could have still voted to Remain. They didn't.
You could say they were bribed. We’ll spend the money on the NHS. And don’t say that was never on the table. Because it was clear that it was.
This is really very tedious. Vote Leave was a campaign group, it could neither offer nor promise anything anymore than CND or Greenpeace can. Neither the CEO nor the Campaign Director of Vote Leave hold political office.
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
I was a strong supporter of Scots Independence last time round and would be again this time.
I do however think that leaving the UK to remain in or rejoin the EU is both lunacy and undermines practically all the sound arguments for Independence.
Fair enough, Richard. In any case, we can agree that the time has come for the Scots to go for it.
Yes, that's right. However, I don't think they will. The EU doesn't rate highly enough for it to swing 6% of votes, probably more now that we have endemic low oil prices which will have swung 2-3 points for No.
A serious war in the Middle East, which caused both substantially higher oil prices and a UK recession would probably be needed for Scots to vote for independence.
Which is better for avoiding that: Trump or Clinton?
'I cannot see Parliament blocking the move rather there would be lots of amendments and efforts to set conditions for the invocation.'
I can. Emma Reynolds let the cat out of the bag on the DP. If MPs don't like the terms - ie - no membership of the single market (and therefore the freedom of movement of people) - they will vote this down and the whole process will be finished. Membership of the EU is the driving force of all Left wing politicians, probably more than their own constituencies. I reckon Miliband, Clegg, etc would be happy to sacrifice their own seats to end Brexit.
In what way would it end Brexit?
1. If they sacrificed their own seats, it'd imply a substantially increased Con majority, possibly bolstered by a UKIP block. That new government could then enact Brexit.
2. Once A50 is invoked, it's near-enough impossible to stop the process. If parliament doesn't like the exit terms then that just means it will be a chaotic rather than an ordered exit.
The referendum was advisory and it was close. Those are simple facts.
Only one of those is a fact. The other is a silly meme invented by people who want to disregard the democratic decision of the British people.
No, I think you'll find that it was advisory. Also that 3.8 in 100 is quite a small number.
I seem to recall we've been here before and you were unable to point to anything whereby Parliament reserved the right to override the decision at a later date.
'I cannot see Parliament blocking the move rather there would be lots of amendments and efforts to set conditions for the invocation.'
I can. Emma Reynolds let the cat out of the bag on the DP. If MPs don't like the terms - ie - no membership of the single market (and therefore the freedom of movement of people) - they will vote this down and the whole process will be finished. Membership of the EU is the driving force of all Left wing politicians, probably more than their own constituencies. I reckon Miliband, Clegg, etc would be happy to sacrifice their own seats to end Brexit.
In what way would it end Brexit?
1. If they sacrificed their own seats, it'd imply a substantially increased Con majority, possibly bolstered by a UKIP block. That new government could then enact Brexit.
2. Once A50 is invoked, it's near-enough impossible to stop the process. If parliament doesn't like the exit terms then that just means it will be a chaotic rather than an ordered exit.
The referendum was advisory and it was close. Those are simple facts.
Only one of those is a fact. The other is a silly meme invented by people who want to disregard the democratic decision of the British people.
No, I think you'll find that it was advisory. Also that 3.8 in 100 is quite a small number.
I seem to recall we've been here before and you were unable to point to anything whereby Parliament reserved the right to override the decision at a later date.
3.8 in 100 is 1.0 in 100 more than Labour won a 66 majority with in 2005.
You could say they were bribed. We’ll spend the money on the NHS. And don’t say that was never on the table. Because it was clear that it was.
Yes bribed that's entirely possible and likewise I suppose the £4300 plus other end to the world reasons could be considered a threat or even blackmail? Each to his / her own as it's just ever decreasing circles really.
Perhaps though you missed the " both sides were lying" comment in my initial post hence I hadn't denied it despite the fact you then tried to say I had.
I see that the EU has started mentioning they are divvieing up the charges for a UK exit ( Daily Mail) . One insider says 18 billion cost but they also point out it is around 350 million per week.
Yes it's all twaddle from both sides and still is really
This is really very tedious. Vote Leave was a campaign group, it could neither offer nor promise anything anymore than CND or Greenpeace can. Neither the CEO nor the Campaign Director of Vote Leave hold political office.
Tell that to the headbangers who are touring TV studios claiming the vote gives a mandate for things that Vote Leave said before the vote
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
Yes great - then have one after every bill and budget passes through Westminster just incase minds have been changed by every single event..
for reference the question was
""Should Scotland be an independent country?""
No mention of the EU.
Hmm. As I recall the EU referendum question was:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
No mention of leaving the Single Market, or appointing Liam "Wrecker" Fox to run our international trade affairs.
Funny old world.
It was consistently pointed out by remain in every media outlet and interview that this involved the single market and free movement. "Project fear" you may have heard about it? If not it Involved plagues and the end of western civilisation as we know it at one point. Surprised you don't remember?
Please continue dancing on the head of your EU pin though if you feel better for it
SO because Project Fear LIED - its lie must become policy? As if none of us KNEW they were lying?
Yeah....end of western civilisation was a bit extreme I suppose. Maybe the people by then had Sussed out that both sides were lying and took the plague theme literally by placing it on all their houses.
Meanwhile the people still voted to leave. They could have still voted to Remain. They didn't.
You could say they were bribed. We’ll spend the money on the NHS. And don’t say that was never on the table. Because it was clear that it was.
This is really very tedious. Vote Leave was a campaign group, it could neither offer nor promise anything anymore than CND or Greenpeace can. Neither the CEO nor the Campaign Director of Vote Leave hold political office.
There are quite significant sentences handed down for “joint enterprise”, when those convicted had even left the scene of the crime.
You could say they were bribed. We’ll spend the money on the NHS. And don’t say that was never on the table. Because it was clear that it was.
Yes bribed that's entirely possible and likewise I suppose the £4300 plus other end to the world reasons could be considered a threat or even blackmail? Each to his / her own as it's just ever decreasing circles really.
Perhaps though you missed the " both sides were lying" comment in my initial post hence I hadn't denied it despite the fact you then tried to say I had.
I see that the EU has started mentioning they are divvieing up the charges for a UK exit ( Daily Mail) . One insider says 18 billion cost but they also point out it is around 350 million per week.
Yes it's all twaddle from both sides and still is really ___________________________________________________________________ Fair enough. I did miss that. Sorry. I’m dipping in and out of pb.
This is really very tedious. Vote Leave was a campaign group, it could neither offer nor promise anything anymore than CND or Greenpeace can. Neither the CEO nor the Campaign Director of Vote Leave hold political office.
There are quite significant sentences handed down for “joint enterprise”, when those convicted had even left the scene of the crime.
Would you be referring to the backbench MP Mr Johnson ? Holder of no political office who could neither speak for nor bind the government ?
This is really very tedious. Vote Leave was a campaign group, it could neither offer nor promise anything anymore than CND or Greenpeace can. Neither the CEO nor the Campaign Director of Vote Leave hold political office.
Tell that to the headbangers who are touring TV studios claiming the vote gives a mandate for things that Vote Leave said before the vote
Vote Leave gives a mandate to leave, nothing more, nothing less, nothing extra is required. The mandate is to government, not parliament, parliament makes laws it does not enact them, and parliament had at all previous opportunities declined to fetter the government's actions, including not restricting the prerogative to active Article 50. The Government decides on what sort of BrExit it wants, if the people dont like it they can vote them out in GE2020, that is how our system works.
There is nothing new in the above, nothing controversial, nothing that hasnt been done in similar circumstances many times before, its just a small but vocal and influential segment of the population doesn't like it. Sadly for them Mrs May's approach is going down very well outside the metropolitan areas, and their votes count the same as anyone else's in the next election.
I think there was a realisation that they would never be asked again. It would then be full steam ahead, we would have voted for the superstate.
I think that would have been the case, eventually anyway. This ref was a little different as it asked in or out rather than do you agree with this or that treaty. I think anyone would have been hard pressed even the leavers to then say there was not a mandate for remain had they won with a majority.
Inevitably the superstate would have come into being and the whole logic of currency, flag and national anthem parliament x2 would have become obvious to the most politically ignorant. Why a trading bloc needs any of those things of course is the point. I can see the reason for free movement but Merkel blew that one apart of course by her unilateral invite the the world resulting in more border closures and fences than imaginable
This is really very tedious. Vote Leave was a campaign group, it could neither offer nor promise anything anymore than CND or Greenpeace can. Neither the CEO nor the Campaign Director of Vote Leave hold political office.
Tell that to the headbangers who are touring TV studios claiming the vote gives a mandate for things that Vote Leave said before the vote
'I cannot see Parliament blocking the move rather there would be lots of amendments and efforts to set conditions for the invocation.'
I can. Emma Reynolds let the cat out of the bag on the DP. If MPs don't like the terms - ie - no membership of the single market (and therefore the freedom of movement of people) - they will vote this down and the whole process will be finished. Membership of the EU is the driving force of all Left wing politicians, probably more than their own constituencies. I reckon Miliband, Clegg, etc would be happy to sacrifice their own seats to end Brexit.
In what way would it end Brexit?
1. If they sacrificed their own seats, it'd imply a substantially increased Con majority, possibly bolstered by a UKIP block. That new government could then enact Brexit.
2. Once A50 is invoked, it's near-enough impossible to stop the process. If parliament doesn't like the exit terms then that just means it will be a chaotic rather than an ordered exit.
The referendum was advisory and it was close. Those are simple facts.
Only one of those is a fact. The other is a silly meme invented by people who want to disregard the democratic decision of the British people.
No, I think you'll find that it was advisory. Also that 3.8 in 100 is quite a small number.
I seem to recall we've been here before and you were unable to point to anything whereby Parliament reserved the right to override the decision at a later date.
3.8 in 100 is 1.0 in 100 more than Labour won a 66 majority with in 2005.
Can people stop flogging this point to death? The referendum was advisory in the sense that a further decision - either by the executive or parliament, depending mostly upon what the courts decide, is necessary before anything whatsoever can happen.
At least it makes a change from fecking *reepy *lowns.
A few years ago in wandering around a french supermarket looking for a few essentials to top up our stocks at the rental home, I was taken aback by the lack of soap products on offer. May be Unilever struggle in France?
My wife buys Le Petit Marseillais body wash from France, so maybe the French prefer liquid soaps to bars.
@faisalislam: Taking Back Control seems to now involve a boycott of British made product, in protest at private sector price spat caused by sterling slide
Alexandria Marx Billy Graham Evangelical Association Endorses Donald Trump for POTUS RT #faith #catholic #baptist #lutheran #NY https://t.co/TIjie2ieZp
You could say they were bribed. We’ll spend the money on the NHS. And don’t say that was never on the table. Because it was clear that it was.
Yes bribed that's entirely possible and likewise I suppose the £4300 plus other end to the world reasons could be considered a threat or even blackmail? Each to his / her own as it's just ever decreasing circles really.
Perhaps though you missed the " both sides were lying" comment in my initial post hence I hadn't denied it despite the fact you then tried to say I had.
I see that the EU has started mentioning they are divvieing up the charges for a UK exit ( Daily Mail) . One insider says 18 billion cost but they also point out it is around 350 million per week.
Yes it's all twaddle from both sides and still is really
___________________________________________________________________ Fair enough. I did miss that. Sorry. I’m dipping in and out of pb.
With the benefit of hindsight, I ought to have realised that this evidence of Dylan's Scandinavian popularity suggested that the odds on his getting a Nobel were at the time more than generous... https://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/sep/29/swedish-cientists-bet-bob-dylan-lyrics-research-papers Group of Swedish academics – authors of papers such as Nitric Oxide and Inflammation: The Answer is Blowing in the Wind – reveal 17-year bet: whoever has written most articles including Dylan quotes before going into retirement wins a lunch at a local restaurant
New #PodestaEmail6 -- Hillary practiced talking about UFOs before Jimmy Kimmel apearance. https://t.co/r2UHp61PPj
Heaven forfend a politician doing some preparation for an interview! Isn't the context that Kimmell talked to Bill and Obama about them a short while before?
It seems perfectly reasonable to have researched this. It allowed her to appear knowledgeable, cut off a potentially troublesome question, and made her seem human (which is quite difficult for Hils).
At least it makes a change from fecking *reepy *lowns.
A few years ago in wandering around a french supermarket looking for a few essentials to top up our stocks at the rental home, I was taken aback by the lack of soap products on offer. May be Unilever struggle in France?
My wife buys Le Petit Marseillais body wash from France, so maybe the French prefer liquid soaps to bars.
News from the front line: Persil products on half price prominently displayed as you walk into Tesco in Tavistock.
'I cannot see Parliament blocking the move rather there would be lots of amendments and efforts to set conditions for the invocation.'
I can. Emma Reynolds let the cat out of the bag on the DP. If MPs don't like the terms - ie - no membership of the single market (and therefore the freedom of movement of people) - they will vote this down and the whole process will be finished. Membership of the EU is the driving force of all Left wing politicians, probably more than their own constituencies. I reckon Miliband, Clegg, etc would be happy to sacrifice their own seats to end Brexit.
In what way would it end Brexit?
1. If they sacrificed their own seats, it'd imply a substantially increased Con majority, possibly bolstered by a UKIP block. That new government could then enact Brexit.
2. Once A50 is invoked, it's near-enough impossible to stop the process. If parliament doesn't like the exit terms then that just means it will be a chaotic rather than an ordered exit.
The referendum was advisory and it was close. Those are simple facts.
Only one of those is a fact. The other is a silly meme invented by people who want to disregard the democratic decision of the British people.
No, I think you'll find that it was advisory. Also that 3.8 in 100 is quite a small number.
I seem to recall we've been here before and you were unable to point to anything whereby Parliament reserved the right to override the decision at a later date.
3.8 in 100 is 1.0 in 100 more than Labour won a 66 majority with in 2005.
Can people stop flogging this point to death? The referendum was advisory in the sense that a further decision - either by the executive or parliament, depending mostly upon what the courts decide, is necessary before anything whatsoever can happen.
The point wasnt about the parliament issues, it was about repeated attempts to call it a marginal win. How can a binary decision be marginal ? You are either in the EU, or you are out.
Any politician with the slightest inclination to get re-elected is going to have to give at least marginal ground on immigration, even if only as far as Freedom of Work rather than Freedom of Movement, just that one aspect on its own has been declared a completely non-negotiable redline by the EU. So politicians broadly have the choice of "Four Freedoms" and lose the next election, or anything else and "Hard" BrExit.
'I cannot see Parliament blocking the move rather there would be lots of amendments and efforts to set conditions for the invocation.'
I can. Emma Reynolds let the cat out of the bag on the DP. If MPs don't like the terms - ie - no membership of the single market (and therefore the freedom of movement of people) - they will vote this down and the whole process will be finished. Membership of the EU is the driving force of all Left wing politicians, probably more than their own constituencies. I reckon Miliband, Clegg, etc would be happy to sacrifice their own seats to end Brexit.
In what way would it end Brexit?
1. If they sacrificed their own seats, it'd imply a substantially increased Con majority, possibly bolstered by a UKIP block. That new government could then enact Brexit.
2. Once A50 is invoked, it's near-enough impossible to stop the process. If parliament doesn't like the exit terms then that just means it will be a chaotic rather than an ordered exit.
The referendum was advisory and it was close. Those are simple facts.
Only one of those is a fact. The other is a silly meme invented by people who want to disregard the democratic decision of the British people.
No, I think you'll find that it was advisory. Also that 3.8 in 100 is quite a small number.
I seem to recall we've been here before and you were unable to point to anything whereby Parliament reserved the right to override the decision at a later date.
3.8 in 100 is 1.0 in 100 more than Labour won a 66 majority with in 2005.
Can people stop flogging this point to death? The referendum was advisory in the sense that a further decision - either by the executive or parliament, depending mostly upon what the courts decide, is necessary before anything whatsoever can happen.
The problem is that describing it as "advisory" is intended to legitimise the idea that it can be overturned.
This is really very tedious. Vote Leave was a campaign group, it could neither offer nor promise anything anymore than CND or Greenpeace can. Neither the CEO nor the Campaign Director of Vote Leave hold political office.
Tell that to the headbangers who are touring TV studios claiming the vote gives a mandate for things that Vote Leave said before the vote
I thought that was all going to be handled by Georges punishment Emergency Budget the day after if the vote went to leave. That's the one that didn't occur of course so you may not have recollected it in the rush
Alexandria Marx Billy Graham Evangelical Association Endorses Donald Trump for POTUS RT #faith #catholic #baptist #lutheran #NY https://t.co/TIjie2ieZp
@faisalislam: Taking Back Control seems to now involve a boycott of British made product, in protest at private sector price spat caused by sterling slide
I'm expecting some photoshopped Scottish Resistance shirts soon for the Brexiteers.
At least it makes a change from fecking *reepy *lowns.
A few years ago in wandering around a french supermarket looking for a few essentials to top up our stocks at the rental home, I was taken aback by the lack of soap products on offer. May be Unilever struggle in France?
My wife buys Le Petit Marseillais body wash from France, so maybe the French prefer liquid soaps to bars.
News from the front line: Persil products on half price prominently displayed as you walk into Tesco in Tavistock.
Guido seems to infer that Unilever is based in Switzerland to reduce it's tax to UK and there is some talk of a UK campaign to boycott their products. I have no idea if this is true but if social and print media decide to launch a commercial attack on Unilever it could become very interesting.
I'm not sure whether Scott was re-tweeting Faisal Islam because he agreed with him or he thought Faisal an example of the sneering elite who think us plebs will turn on Brexit when the price of our beer, tabs and bingo start to go up.
I'm not sure whether Scott was re-tweeting Faisal Islam because he agreed with him or he thought Faisal an example of the sneering elite who think us plebs will turn on Brexit when the price of our beer, tabs and bingo start to go up.
Scott_P could well turn out to actually be Faisal Islam!
I'm not sure whether Scott was re-tweeting Faisal Islam because he agreed with him or he thought Faisal an example of the sneering elite who think us plebs will turn on Brexit when the price of our beer, tabs and bingo start to go up.
It was stated on here a day or o ago that the will of the people would collapse when their G&Ts went up 30% in the hotel bar. Even today the overthrow of the referendum result would happen as the people would not get their marmite jars.
Scotland is an integral part of the Uk - and its citizens agreed - as confirmed by recent referendum.
The TPA's research shows we are subsidizing Scotland's governing elite to hate us. IF they want to go this time, let's let them. I've had enough of this petulant child.
Yes their citizens agreed to be part of a UK that was a member of the EU, as the No campaign campaigned on in 2014. Sturgeon is absolutely right to call another referendum, and I hope for the Scots' sake that they take this opportunity. I was a staunch opponent of Sindy. Not any more. They should go for it.
Yes great - then have one after every bill and budget passes through Westminster just incase minds have been changed by every single event..
for reference the question was
""Should Scotland be an independent country?""
No mention of the EU.
Hmm. As I recall the EU referendum question was:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
No mention of leaving the Single Market, or appointing Liam "Wrecker" Fox to run our international trade affairs.
Funny old world.
In Scotland, the question was still "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?".
No mention of whether Scotland should remain or leave.
This is really very tedious. Vote Leave was a campaign group, it could neither offer nor promise anything anymore than CND or Greenpeace can. Neither the CEO nor the Campaign Director of Vote Leave hold political office.
Tell that to the headbangers who are touring TV studios claiming the vote gives a mandate for things that Vote Leave said before the vote
Vote Leave gives a mandate to leave, nothing more, nothing less, nothing extra is required. The mandate is to government, not parliament, parliament makes laws it does not enact them, and parliament had at all previous opportunities declined to fetter the government's actions, including not restricting the prerogative to active Article 50. The Government decides on what sort of BrExit it wants, if the people dont like it they can vote them out in GE2020, that is how our system works.
There is nothing new in the above, nothing controversial, nothing that hasnt been done in similar circumstances many times before, its just a small but vocal and influential segment of the population doesn't like it. Sadly for them Mrs May's approach is going down very well outside the metropolitan areas, and their votes count the same as anyone else's in the next election.
Wouldn't disagree with that, as I'm sure you wouldn't disagree that the tactics employed by those who would now wish to ensure soft Brexit or, in some cases, to stop Brexit from happening at all are using exactly the kinds of tactics that Eurosceptic campaigners employed for the last 20 years - make an argument, make a noise, make an appeal to the courts, make it difficult for the government to come to the decisions you do not like.
The fact that the weight of a referendum backed leave, nothing more, nothing less, does nothing whatsoever to dictate that such a campaign should not be undertaken.
I'm not sure whether Scott was re-tweeting Faisal Islam because he agreed with him or he thought Faisal an example of the sneering elite who think us plebs will turn on Brexit when the price of our beer, tabs and bingo start to go up.
I think the latter part of your sentence is exactly where Faisal Islam is coming from and he hardly fails to disguise it with his smug grin. Sky are becoming a mouthpiece for remain and without being unkind, they are hammering us hourly with dreadful images from Syria and the refugees in the Med as if we are able to wave a magic wand and peace will reign.
It says something when I find myself switching over more and more to the BBC
We really did make the right choice didn't we? C-words!
I'd rather we made a "one off" leaving payment than have ongoing liabilities or payments y - such ongoing contributions will be used annually as blackmail by our benevolent friends in Brussels.
I see Sturgeon is angry that the will of the Scottish people has been ignored at a referendum on leaving a union, and has plans to ignore the will of the Scottish people expressed in a referendum on leaving a union so that the will of the Scottish people, as indicated by a referendum on leaving a union, can be respected.
I'm not sure whether Scott was re-tweeting Faisal Islam because he agreed with him or he thought Faisal an example of the sneering elite who think us plebs will turn on Brexit when the price of our beer, tabs and bingo start to go up.
I think the latter part of your sentence is exactly where Faisal Islam is coming from and he hardly fails to disguise it with his smug grin. Sky are becoming a mouthpiece for remain and without being unkind, they are hammering us hourly with dreadful images from Syria and the refugees in the Med as if we are able to wave a magic wand and peace will reign.
It says something when I find myself switching over more and more to the BBC
Something is going on at Sky News, which means all the best talent is leaving. The past 2 years they have lost most of their best front line people.
This is really very tedious. Vote Leave was a campaign group, it could neither offer nor promise anything anymore than CND or Greenpeace can. Neither the CEO nor the Campaign Director of Vote Leave hold political office.
Tell that to the headbangers who are touring TV studios claiming the vote gives a mandate for things that Vote Leave said before the vote
Vote Leave gives a mandate to leave, nothing more, nothing less, nothing extra is required. The mandate is to government, not parliament, parliament makes laws it does not enact them, and parliament had at all previous opportunities declined to fetter the government's actions, including not restricting the prerogative to active Article 50. The Government decides on what sort of BrExit it wants, if the people dont like it they can vote them out in GE2020, that is how our system works.
There is nothing new in the above, nothing controversial, nothing that hasnt been done in similar circumstances many times before, its just a small but vocal and influential segment of the population doesn't like it. Sadly for them Mrs May's approach is going down very well outside the metropolitan areas, and their votes count the same as anyone else's in the next election.
Wouldn't disagree with that, as I'm sure you wouldn't disagree that the tactics employed by those who would now wish to ensure soft Brexit or, in some cases, to stop Brexit from happening at all are using exactly the kinds of tactics that Eurosceptic campaigners employed for the last 20 years - make an argument, make a noise, make an appeal to the courts, make it difficult for the government to come to the decisions you do not like.
Good for the goose, good for the gander.
Its just idiocy because soft-BrExit doesn't and never has existed in a way that gives the government any slight possibility of getting re-elected. So it won't happen.
To get re-elected the government is going to have to give some ground on immigration, it might not be a lot, but it going to have to be at the very least not coming here without a job offer.
This is completely anathema to the EU who state the four freedoms is non-negotiable, and they appear to be prepared to die in a ditch for it. So the government can either lose the next election, or go for Hard BrExit, which do you think they will chose. This has been conspicuously been the case since well before the referendum but seems to come as a big surprise to a lot of people.
'I cannot see Parliament blocking the move rather there would be lots of amendments and efforts to set conditions for the invocation.'
Membership of the EU is the driving force of all Left wing politicians, probably more than their own constituencies. I reckon Miliband, Clegg, etc would be happy to sacrifice their own seats to end Brexit.
In what way would it end Brexit?
1. If they sacrificed their own seats, it'd imply a substantially increased Con majority, possibly bolstered by a UKIP block. That new government could then enact Brexit.
2. Once A50 is invoked, it's near-enough impossible to stop the process. If parliament doesn't like the exit terms then that just means it will be a chaotic rather than an ordered exit.
The referendum was advisory and it was close. Those are simple facts.
Only one of those is a fact. The other is a silly meme invented by people who want to disregard the democratic decision of the British people.
No, I think you'll find that it was advisory. Also that 3.8 in 100 is quite a small number.
I seem to recall we've been here before and you were unable to point to anything whereby Parliament reserved the right to override the decision at a later date.
3.8 in 100 is 1.0 in 100 more than Labour won a 66 majority with in 2005.
Can people stop flogging this point to death? The referendum was advisory in the sense that a further decision - either by the executive or parliament, depending mostly upon what the courts decide, is necessary before anything whatsoever can happen.
The point wasnt about the parliament issues, it was about repeated attempts to call it a marginal win. How can a binary decision be marginal ? You are either in the EU, or you are out.
Any politician with the slightest inclination to get re-elected is going to have to give at least marginal ground on immigration, even if only as far as Freedom of Work rather than Freedom of Movement, just that one aspect on its own has been declared a completely non-negotiable redline by the EU. So politicians broadly have the choice of "Four Freedoms" and lose the next election, or anything else and "Hard" BrExit.
Look of course it was a win, of course it was close. That much we should be able to agree on. Did it represent the 'clear will of the people'. Well no, because it was so close.
“During the referendum campaign, someone said the real danger of Brexit is you'll end up with higher interest rates, lower house prices and a lower exchange rate, and I thought: dream on. Because that's what we've been trying to achieve for the past three years and now we have a chance of getting it.
So Sterling devaluation actually good after all, who knew it.
'I cannot see Parliament blocking the move rather there would be lots of amendments and efforts to set conditions for the invocation.'
.
In what way would it end Brexit?
1. If they sacrificed their own seats, it'd imply a substantially increased Con majority, possibly bolstered by a UKIP block. That new government could then enact Brexit.
2. Once A50 is invoked, it's near-enough impossible to stop the process. If parliament doesn't like the exit terms then that just means it will be a chaotic rather than an ordered exit.
The referendum was advisory and it was close. Those are simple facts.
Only one of those is a fact. The other is a silly meme invented by people who want to disregard the democratic decision of the British people.
No, I think you'll find that it was advisory. Also that 3.8 in 100 is quite a small number.
I seem to recall we've been here before and you were unable to point to anything whereby Parliament reserved the right to override the decision at a later date.
3.8 in 100 is 1.0 in 100 more than Labour won a 66 majority with in 2005.
Can people stop flogging this point to death? The referendum was advisory in the sense that a further decision - either by the executive or parliament, depending mostly upon what the courts decide, is necessary before anything whatsoever can happen.
The point wasnt about the parliament issues, it was about repeated attempts to call it a marginal win. How can a binary decision be marginal ? You are either in the EU, or you are out.
Any politician with the slightest inclination to get re-elected is going to have to give at least marginal ground on immigration, even if only as far as Freedom of Work rather than Freedom of Movement, just that one aspect on its own has been declared a completely non-negotiable redline by the EU. So politicians broadly have the choice of "Four Freedoms" and lose the next election, or anything else and "Hard" BrExit.
Look of course it was a win, of course it was close. That much we should be able to agree on. Did it represent the 'clear will of the people'. Well no, because it was so close.
Not as close as Quebec, 1995, where the winning side got to stay in Canada without any whingeing from the losing side
Not as close as Wales, 1997, where the winning side got to have a Devolved Assembly without any moaning from the losing side.
Comments
Should Scotland be an independent country?
- No - it should remain in the UK
- No - it should remain in the EU
But I like the aim!
The best thing to do to achieve it would be to crack down on the private schools, especially the older boarding ones:
* remove their charity status;
* have central government seize their assets;
* and if parents try to send their offspring to live with paid strangers, then take their children into care, fine the parents, and put the parents on a register of those who represent a certain kind of danger to children. I wouldn't go so far as to advocate compulsory sterilisation or the wearing of special badges, but make it an offence for such parents not to notify the public authorities if they breed again, and jail them for any subsequent offence. Clearly cultural change is also needed, so have those who administer the new law acquaint themselves with the implementation and problems of denazification in post-war Germany.
* require compulsory psychological assessment for everyone who applies for a public sector job - such as judge, member of parliament, or civil servant (or those who are in effect civil servants, such as administrators of universities, the BBC, and health boards, and officers in the armed forces, MI6, etc.) - who attended a private boarding school; require similar checks for those who apply from that background for senior jobs at public limited companies; and don't employ as a testing psychologist anyone who attended such a school themselves or whose parents earned more than twice the average salary.
Also abolish the Oxford and Cambridge colleges:
* have central government seize all their assets;
* remove their rights to admit undergraduates to university;
* turn them into the halls of residence that they essentially are and randomise the allocation to different halls of residence of those students who choose to rent accommodation from the university.
Third, and not just at Oxford and Cambridge but at all British universities, end the system of giving applicants "offers". Just publish the entry requirements as most universities in the world do, and admit all applicants who meet them and still want to come when term starts.
Fourth, reintroduce mandatory student grants.
I do however think that leaving the UK to remain in or rejoin the EU is both lunacy and undermines practically all the sound arguments for Independence.
Please continue dancing on the head of your EU pin though if you feel better for it
It, and situations elsewhere in the world, leads to the question: what would the state (in our case the UK government) have to do, in order for me to not only rebel peacefully against it, but to also take up arms against it; to actively rebel?
I don't really have an answer to the question. I'd like to think that if I was in wartime France I would have joined the resistance. But in reality, probably not.
But I can see why some people do.
Meanwhile the people still voted to leave. They could have still voted to Remain. They didn't.
https://www.unilever.co.uk/about/who-we-are/our-leadership/?topics=408256
It has 28 people listed in the ULE. 2 Exec Board Directors, 12 non exec Board Directors and 14 other senior executives. 28 FFS!
And don’t say that was never on the table. Because it was clear that it was.
Or a Labour Party only getting 2.8% more than the Conservatives isnt really in Government (leaving aside the 66 seat majority). I suppose you are going to tell us its possible to get a bit pregnant next.
Frank Thorp V – Verified account @frankthorp
Trump using the British spelling of "phony" this morning
Nicola's just upset that she lost by a bigger margin than Remain.
@AnasSarwar: Nicola Sturgeon has got the David Cameron problem. She needs to talk up a referendum to fix her party not to fix the country. #SNP16
https://youtu.be/oMBIWsoLunQ
Which is better for avoiding that: Trump or Clinton?
And don’t say that was never on the table. Because it was clear that it was.
Yes bribed that's entirely possible and likewise I suppose the £4300 plus other end to the world reasons could be considered a threat or even blackmail? Each to his / her own as it's just ever decreasing circles really.
Perhaps though you missed the " both sides were lying" comment in my initial post hence I hadn't denied it despite the fact you then tried to say I had.
I see that the EU has started mentioning they are divvieing up the charges for a UK exit ( Daily Mail) . One insider says 18 billion cost but they also point out it is around 350 million per week.
Yes it's all twaddle from both sides and still is really
Perhaps though you missed the " both sides were lying" comment in my initial post hence I hadn't denied it despite the fact you then tried to say I had.
I see that the EU has started mentioning they are divvieing up the charges for a UK exit ( Daily Mail) . One insider says 18 billion cost but they also point out it is around 350 million per week.
Yes it's all twaddle from both sides and still is really
___________________________________________________________________
Fair enough. I did miss that. Sorry. I’m dipping in and out of pb.
New #PodestaEmail6 -- Hillary practiced talking about UFOs before Jimmy Kimmel apearance. https://t.co/r2UHp61PPj
There is nothing new in the above, nothing controversial, nothing that hasnt been done in similar circumstances many times before, its just a small but vocal and influential segment of the population doesn't like it. Sadly for them Mrs May's approach is going down very well outside the metropolitan areas, and their votes count the same as anyone else's in the next election.
I think that would have been the case, eventually anyway. This ref was a little different as it asked in or out rather than do you agree with this or that treaty. I think anyone would have been hard pressed even the leavers to then say there was not a mandate for remain had they won with a majority.
Inevitably the superstate would have come into being and the whole logic of currency, flag and national anthem parliament x2 would have become obvious to the most politically ignorant. Why a trading bloc needs any of those things of course is the point. I can see the reason for free movement but Merkel blew that one apart of course by her unilateral invite the the world resulting in more border closures and fences than imaginable
Alexandria Marx
Billy Graham Evangelical Association Endorses Donald Trump for POTUS RT #faith #catholic #baptist #lutheran #NY https://t.co/TIjie2ieZp
Fair enough. I did miss that. Sorry. I’m dipping in and out of pb.
No problem done it myself on occasion
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/sep/29/swedish-cientists-bet-bob-dylan-lyrics-research-papers
Group of Swedish academics – authors of papers such as Nitric Oxide and Inflammation: The Answer is Blowing in the Wind – reveal 17-year bet: whoever has written most articles including Dylan quotes before going into retirement wins a lunch at a local restaurant
The maximum content is used yet I can't seem to post the reply without cut / paste and then italics to that I am replying too.
Is there a better way as I seem some posters manage it?
It looks like this is the interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R95X8rwYD9o
It seems perfectly reasonable to have researched this. It allowed her to appear knowledgeable, cut off a potentially troublesome question, and made her seem human (which is quite difficult for Hils).
Any politician with the slightest inclination to get re-elected is going to have to give at least marginal ground on immigration, even if only as far as Freedom of Work rather than Freedom of Movement, just that one aspect on its own has been declared a completely non-negotiable redline by the EU. So politicians broadly have the choice of "Four Freedoms" and lose the next election, or anything else and "Hard" BrExit.
Ain't gonna happen.
Liz Mair – @LizMair
By the way, the two really, really bad stories I mentioned would soon be dropping still haven't actually dropped.
punishmentEmergency Budget the day after if the vote went to leave. That's the one that didn't occur of course so you may not have recollected it in the rushhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrmDwS2A4f8
Saw them live as a student - bought the T-shirt!
The 'little people' fighting back
I'm not sure whether Scott was re-tweeting Faisal Islam because he agreed with him or he thought Faisal an example of the sneering elite who think us plebs will turn on Brexit when the price of our beer, tabs and bingo start to go up.
Harking back to his convention speech, is he GUILTY or NOT GUILTY?
@AP
BREAKING: UN General Assembly elects Antonio Guterres as secretary-general.
Deplorable Collect
Endless Emails By Democrats Demeaning Americans & How 2 Scheme Americans..
But Not One Line On How They Plan 2 HELP Americans
#wikileaks
No mention of whether Scotland should remain or leave.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-13/eu-seeks-€20-billion-brexit-divorce-settlement
We really did make the right choice didn't we? C-words!
The fact that the weight of a referendum backed leave, nothing more, nothing less, does nothing whatsoever to dictate that such a campaign should not be undertaken.
Good for the goose, good for the gander.
It says something when I find myself switching over more and more to the BBC
If you want some payback on the EU's utterly repulsive and idiotic attitude read AEP's latest in the Telegraph. Absolutely thunderous.
Msnbc's Morning Joe Scarborough says he's skeptical about latest Trump accusations. Why now? #NextFakeTrumpVictim https://t.co/rKY2SsSIZW
I see Sturgeon is angry that the will of the Scottish people has been ignored at a referendum on leaving a union, and has plans to ignore the will of the Scottish people expressed in a referendum on leaving a union so that the will of the Scottish people, as indicated by a referendum on leaving a union, can be respected.
How about link to stuff when the MSM deem it worthy of comment? Because if it doesn't, i'll asssume it's just the same worthless rubbish
To get re-elected the government is going to have to give some ground on immigration, it might not be a lot, but it going to have to be at the very least not coming here without a job offer.
This is completely anathema to the EU who state the four freedoms is non-negotiable, and they appear to be prepared to die in a ditch for it. So the government can either lose the next election, or go for Hard BrExit, which do you think they will chose. This has been conspicuously been the case since well before the referendum but seems to come as a big surprise to a lot of people.
I reckon Stroy number 1 will be two days before the third debate, on the Monday morning.
And Story number 3 will be on the Friday before the election
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36720830
This sounds like a crazy story. 4 trials !!!!
Did it represent the 'clear will of the people'. Well no, because it was so close.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/pound-sterling-value-crash-mervyn-king-bank-of-england-welcomes-brexit-a7355076.html
“During the referendum campaign, someone said the real danger of Brexit is you'll end up with higher interest rates, lower house prices and a lower exchange rate, and I thought: dream on. Because that's what we've been trying to achieve for the past three years and now we have a chance of getting it.
So Sterling devaluation actually good after all, who knew it.
Not as close as Wales, 1997, where the winning side got to have a Devolved Assembly without any moaning from the losing side.
YOu can talk mate, after your potentially libelous retweet of a complete nomark this morning about a 'predator' emerging.