I hear you, cuz. I also have my doubts about TMay. I'd have preferred Boris.
However, we are where we are, and at least she is a cunning politician - much more cunning than Cameron. I suspect she is a better negotiator than him, as well, and will serve the nation honourably during Brexit. She's also more acceptable to Scots, which is important right now.
Her statism annoys me, as it does you, but in the face of Corbyn, and in the knowledge that the white working classes deserve a champion (at last) I will let it go. For now. Let her bind up the wounds of an unequal country.
We can turn ourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
You have to accept that Cameron and Osborne, by their own measures, completely fucked up. They lost the biggest vote of their lives - an allegedly unlosable vote - through utter ineptitude. Through arrogance, stupidity and laziness. Overrated halfwits. I'm glad they lost but we must judge them as they judge themselves and on that basis they are the biggest failures in recent British political history. They were out-manuevered, comprehensively, by Farage and Boris, and yes even Ms May.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is David Cameron the only PM ever to lose a referendum? (Accepting that there have been very few?)
DC was often criticised by the left for being out-of-touch (for which read 'posh') - and I never really bought it; or at least never really saw it as important; Posh people can be perfectly in touch. But actually, it proved his undoing; he completely misunderstood how eurosceptic Britain really was. A leader who better understood his own nation would have had a much better idea of what sort of a deal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
You have to accept that Cameron and Osborne, by their own measures, completely fucked up. They lost the biggest vote of their lives - an allegedly unlosable vote - through utter ineptitude. Through arrogance, stupidity and laziness. Overrated halfwits. I'm glad they lost but we must judge them as they judge themselves and on that basis they are the biggest failures in recent British political history. They were out-manuevered, comprehensively, by Farage and Boris, and yes even Ms May.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Oh yes, and I'm quite glad they fucked it. Very happy, in fact. However, it is clear that Osborne and Boris are both of incredible intellect, though Ossie doesn't have the common touch. Smarter than the PM, for sure.
I'm a Cameroon at heart (though maybe not as much as TSE) so I'm sceptical about TMay anyway, but so far her economic policies are basically Ed Miliband on steroids. Not exactly what I signed up and donate to the Tory party for.
On Dave's comment, it's one of those I can't get too worked up about. I sort of liked the fact that he went into politics on the basis that he'd be good at it rather than as part of some moral crusade as our current PM seems to be on. I want the leader to lead, not moralise.
But he didn't lead. He failed. He led his nation into voting against him, thus failing. This was a calamitous failure. He was an absolute failure. A total total failure. A failed person. A politician who failed. There is no greater conceivable failure (which he recognised, hence his resignation, as a failure).
Enough. Fail.
Yeah, but he was pretty good until then. I liked him anyway.
I hear you, cuz. I also have my doubts about TMay. I'd have preferred Boris.
However, we are where we are, and at least she is a cunning politician - much more cunning than Cameron. I suspect she is a better negotiator than him, as well, and will serve the nation honourably during Brexit. She's also more acceptable to Scots, which is important right now.
Her statism annoys me, as it does you, but in the face of Corbyn, and in the knowledge that the white working classes deserve a champion (at last) I will let it go. For now. Let her bind up the wounds of an unequal country.
We can turn ourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
You have to accept that Cameron and Osborne, by their own measures, completely fucked up. They lost the biggest vote of their lives - an allegedly unlosable vote - through utter ineptitude. Through arrogance, stupidity and laziness. Overrated halfwits. I'm glad they lost but we must judge them as they judge themselves and on that basis they are the biggest failures in recent British political history. They were out-manuevered, comprehensively, by Farage and Boris, and yes even Ms May.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is David Cameron the only PM ever to lose a referendum? (Accepting that there have been very few?)
DC was often criticised by the left for being out-of-touch (for which read 'posh') - and I never really bought it; or at least never really saw it as important; Posh people can be perfectly in touch. But actually, it proved his undoing; he completely misunderstood how eurosceptic Britain really was. A leader who better understood his own nation would have had a much better idea of what sort of a deal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Hmm, so far her cunning had been survival. I'm not convinced that she's got enough cunning to keep herself at the top, not without any major allies or power brokers in her camp. Remember that Dave kept the party disciplined by having Osborne dole out favours and jobs, who has she got?
Delivering budget after budget that increases state spending and with it taxes is going to wear down her natural support base and she'll be relying on there being no opposition, weirdly, on the centre right or economically liberal wing.
What irks me is that after years of Labour delivering big government she didn't learn those lessons, which makes me think she's not very smart. Definitely not as clever as Boris or Osborne. I think she realises it too, which makes her dangerous.
You have to accept that Cameron and Osborne, by their own measures, completely fucked up. They lost the biggest vote of their lives - an allegedly unlosable vote - through utter ineptitude. Through arrogance, stupidity and laziness. Overrated halfwits. I'm glad they lost but we must judge them as they judge themselves and on that basis they are the biggest failures in recent British political history. They were out-manuevered, comprehensively, by Farage and Boris, and yes even Ms May.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is David Cameron the only PM ever to lose a referendum? (Accepting that there have been very few?)
DC was often criticised by the left for being out-of-touch (for which read 'posh') - and I never really bought it; or at least never really saw it as important; Posh people can be perfectly in touch. But actually, it proved his undoing; he completely misunderstood how eurosceptic Britain really was. A leader who better understood his own nation would have had a much better idea of what sort of a deal the British electorate would accept.
To clarify - it wasn't his poshness but his metropolitanism which rendered him out of touch. Like many (not all, of course) zone-1-and-2-ers, he thought the values of inner London were much more commonly held in the rest of the country than was, in fact, the case.
This is, unfortunately, a common problem with Prime Ministers (indeed of MPs and civil servants in general), who end up living in Zone 1 as part of the job and can end up going rather native.
You have to accept that Cameron and Osborne, by their own measures, completely fucked up. They lost the biggest vote of their lives - an allegedly unlosable vote - through utter ineptitude. Through arrogance, stupidity and laziness. Overrated halfwits. I'm glad they lost but we must judge them as they judge themselves and on that basis they are the biggest failures in recent British political history. They were out-manuevered, comprehensively, by Farage and Boris, and yes even Ms May.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Oh yes, and I'm quite glad they fucked it. Very happy, in fact. However, it is clear that Osborne and Boris are both of incredible intellect, though Ossie doesn't have the common touch. Smarter than the PM, for sure.
I'm a Cameroon at heart (though maybe not as much as TSE) so I'm sceptical about TMay anyway, but so far her economic policies are basically Ed Miliband on steroids. Not exactly what I signed up and donate to the Tory party for.
On Dave's comment, it's one of those I can't get too worked up about. I sort of liked the fact that he went into politics on the basis that he'd be good at it rather than as part of some moral crusade as our current PM seems to be on. I want the leader to lead, not moralise.
But he didn't lead. He failed. He led his nation into voting against him, thus failing. This was a calamitous failure. He was an absolute failure. A total total failure. A failed person. A politician who failed. There is no greater conceivable failure (which he recognised, hence his resignation, as a failure).
Enough. Fail.
Every PM is allowed one calamitous blunder. With Maggie it was the Poll Tax; with Blair Iraq. In fact, Dave's blunder bestowed happiness and bliss upon over half the population, so by utilitarian standards he was great!
I hear you, cuz. I also have my doubts about TMay. I'd have preferred Boris.
However, we are where we are, and at least she is a cunning politician - much more cunning than Cameron. I suspect she is a better negotiator than him, as well, and will serve the nation honourably during Brexit. She's also more acceptable to Scots, which is important right now.
Her statism annoys me, as it does you, but in the face of Corbyn, and in the knowledge that the white working classes deserve a champion (at last) I will let it go. For now. Let her bind up the wounds of an unequal country.
We can turn ourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
You have to accept that Cameron and Osborne, by their own measures, completely fucked up. They lost the biggest vote of their lives - an allegedly unlosable vote - through utter ineptitude. Through arrogance, stupidity and laziness. Overrated halfwits. I'm glad they lost but we must judge them as they judge themselves and on that basis they are the biggest failures in recent British political history. They were out-manuevered, comprehensively, by Farage and Boris, and yes even Ms May.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is David Cameron the only PM ever to lose a referendum? (Accepting that there have been very few?)
DC was often criticised by the left for being out-of-touch (for which read 'posh') - and I never really bought it; or at least never really saw it as important; Posh people can be perfectly in touch. But actually, it proved his undoing; he completely misunderstood how eurosceptic Britain really was. A leader who better understood his own nation would have had a much better idea of what sort of a deal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
We never really got to the bottom of why Cameron rushed it so much. He seemed to want to agree something, anything, tell me where to sign asap.
Clive Lewis was the only one doing a solid job, and he gets moved. I think Corbyn et al have the next leadership challenge on their minds already, probably after 2020's failure.
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
I hear you, cuz. I also have my doubts about TMay. I'd have preferred Boris.
However, we are where we are, and at least she is a cunning politician - much more cunning than Cameron. I suspect she is a better negotiator than him, as well, and will serve the nation honourably during Brexit. She's also more acceptable to Scots, which is important right now.
Her statism annoys me, as it does you, but in the face of Corbyn, and in the knowledge that the white working classes deserve a champion (at last) I will let it go. For now. Let her bind up the wounds of an unequal country.
We can turn ourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
You have to accept that Cameron and Osborne, by their own measures, completely fucked up. They lost the biggest vote of their lives - an allegedly unlosable vote - through utter ineptitude. Through arrogance, stupidity and laziness. Overrated halfwits. I'm glad they lost but we must judge them as they judge themselves and on that basis they are the biggest failures in recent British political history. They were out-manuevered, comprehensively, by Farage and Boris, and yes even Ms May.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is David Cameron the only PM ever to lose a referendum? (Accepting that there have been very few?)
DC was often criticised by the left for being out-of-touch (for which read 'posh') - and I never really bought it; or at least never really saw it as important; Posh people can be perfectly in touch. But actually, it proved his undoing; he completely misunderstood how eurosceptic Britain really was. A leader who better understood his own nation would have had a much better idea of what sort of a deal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
I hear you, cuz. I also have my doubts about TMay. I'd have preferred Boris.
However, we are where we are, and at least she is a cunning politician - much more cunning than Cameron. I suspect she is a better negotiator than him, as well, and will serve the nation honourably during Brexit. She's also more acceptable to Scots, which is important right now.
Her statism annoys me, as it does you, but in the face of Corbyn, and in the knowledge that the white working classes deserve a champion (at last) I will let it go. For now. Let her bind up the wounds of an unequal country.
We can turn ourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
You have to accept that Cameron and Osborne, by their own measures, completely fucked up. They lost the biggest vote of their lives - an allegedly unlosable vote - through utter ineptitude. Through arrogance, stupidity and laziness. Overrated halfwits. I'm glad they lost but we must judge them as they judge themselves and on that basis they are the biggest failures in recent British political history. They were out-manuevered, comprehensively, by Farage and Boris, and yes even Ms May.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is David Cameron the only PM ever to lose a referendum? (Accepting that there have been very few?)
DC was often criticised by the left for being out-of-touch (for which read 'posh') - and I never really bought it; or at least never really saw it as important; Posh people can be perfectly in touch. But actually, it proved his undoing; he completely misunderstood how eurosceptic Britain really was. A leader who better understood his own nation would have had a much better idea of what sort of a deal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
He'd been astonishingly lucky throughout his time as PM, and I think he expected that luck to see him through the EU referendum.
I hear you, cuz. I also have my doubts about TMay. I'd have preferred Boris.
However, we are where we are, and at least she is a cunning politician - much more cunning than Cameron. I suspect she is a better negotiator than him, as well, and will serve the nation honourably during Brexit. She's also more acceptable to Scots, which is important right now.
Her statism annoys me, as it does you, but in the face of Corbyn, and in the knowledge that the white working classes deserve a champion (at last) I will let it go. For now. Let her bind up the wounds of an unequal country.
We can turn ourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
You have to accept I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is David Cameron the only PM ever to lose a referendum? (Accepting that there have been very few?)
DC was often criticised by the left for being out-of-touch (for which read 'posh') - and I never really bought it; or at least never really saw it as important; Posh people can be perfectly in touch. But actually, it proved his undoing; he completely misunderstood how eurosceptic Britain really was. A leader who better understood his own nation would have had a much better idea of what sort of a deal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
We never really got to the bottom of why Cameron rushed it so much. He seemed to want to agree something, anything, tell me where to sign asap.
I think that his biggest error was to strike a deal when the EU leaders really were more interested in sorting the migrant crisis. Dave probably planned for an autumn referendum, but did not want to hold it against a backdrop like the refugee crisis of the summer of 2015.
Could he have got a better deal if he had been more patient?. Possibly. Would it have made for a different outcome? Probably not.
I have just got home and read the shadow cabinet news. Jeremy Corbyn must be a Tory plant. He simply must be. Diane Abbott as Home Secretary? It seems like he is deliberately alienating the white working class Brexit voters Labour need so much. He already had Emily Thornberry as shadow foreign and she mocked flying the England flag. Now someone with a long history of anti-white comments as shadow home. It defies belief.
And Nia Griffiths as shadow defence and onside with abolition of Trident.
The whole labour mess makes you despair - how could it have come to this - a London left wing elite out of touch with reality.
We have to be thankful that we have a Prime Minister who loves her Country and can be trusted 100% to defend our Country against threats to our security home and abroad. At the same time she will take us out of the EU, reinstate the sovereignty of our Parliament and reject our laws coming under Luxembourg
Not that long ago (last year) I was seriously thinking of joining Labour as a full member, maybe becoming a councillor one day. Now I wouldn't even vote for this pathetic bunch
Not that long ago (last year) I was seriously thinking of joining Labour as a full member, maybe becoming a councillor one day. Now I wouldn't even vote for this pathetic bunch
They are a 1980s London council. Failing, obviously.
@LOS_Fisher: Times page 1: Steven Woolfe could be suspended from Ukip - derailing his leadership bid - over altercation with MEP, say party figures twitter.com/suttonnick/sta…
I hear you, cuz. I also have my doubts about TMay. I'd have preferred Boris.
However, we are where we are, and at least she is a cunning politician - much more cunning than Cameron. I suspect she is a better negotiator than him, as well, and will serve the nation honourably during Brexit. She's also more acceptable to Scots, which is important right now.
Her statism annoys me,...
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
You have to accept that Cameron and Osborne, by their own measures, completely fucked up. They lost the biggest vote of their lives - an allegedly unlosable vote - through utter ineptitude. Through arrogance, stupidity and laziness. Overrated halfwits. I'm glad they lost but we must judge them as they judge themselves and on that basis they are the biggest failures in recent British political history. They were out-manuevered, comprehensively, by Farage and Boris, and yes even Ms May.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is David Cameron the only PM ever to lose a referendum? (Accepting that there have been very few?)
DC was often criticised by the left for being out-of-touch (for which read 'posh') - and I never really bought it; or at least never really saw it as important; Posh people can be perfectly in touch. But actually, it proved his undoing; he completely misunderstood how eurosceptic Britain really was. A leader who better understood his own nation would have had a much better idea of what sort of a deal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
We never really got to the bottom of why Cameron rushed it so much. He seemed to want to agree something, anything, tell me where to sign asap.
May be because there was no one close to him to tell him it was not a good deal? A Kings new clothes syndrome. Gove had by then become semi-detached. Cameron seems to have used those closest to him in the Govt as part of the negotiating team and they all had dipped their hands in the blood of the deal. Particularly Llewelyn and Osborne. No one could then admit that they had not succeeded.
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
You have to accept that Cameron and Osborne, by their own measures, completely fucked up. They lost the biggest vote of their lives - an allegedly unlosable vote - through utter ineptitude. Through arrogance, stupidity and laziness. Overrated halfwits. I'm glad they lost but we must judge them as they judge themselves and on that basis they are the biggest failures in recent British political history. They were out-manuevered, comprehensively, by Farage and Boris, and yes even Ms May.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Oh yes, and I'm quite glad they fucked it. Very happy, in fact. However, it is clear that Osborne and Boris are both of incredible intellect, though Ossie doesn't have the common touch. Smarter than the PM, for sure.
I'm a Cameroon at heart (though maybe not as much as TSE) so I'm sceptical about TMay anyway, but so far her economic policies are basically Ed Miliband on steroids. Not exactly what I signed up and donate to the Tory party for.
On Dave's comment, it's one of those I can't get too worked up about. I sort of liked the fact that he went into politics on the basis that he'd be good at it rather than as part of some moral crusade as our current PM seems to be on. I want the leader to lead, not moralise.
Osborne was the Shadow Chancellor who didn't spot that there was a recession coming even after Northern Rock.
I'm not sure how that fits into having an 'incredible intellect'.
In reality he was a moderate ability schemer who wasn't as clever as he thought he was.
"Are you a Leaver or do you want a career ?"
could be his political epitaph.
Just as Cameron wanted to be the Conservative Blair but wasn't as successful as the original, Osborne wanted to be the Conservative Brown but again wasn't as successful.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
We never really got to the bottom of why Cameron rushed it so much. He seemed to want to agree something, anything, tell me where to sign asap.
He didn't fancy
i) Conducting negotiations during the French and German elections in 2017
ii) He didn't want this Parliament to do be dominated by the referendum
iii) The longer the government stays in power, the more unpopular it becomes, so it increases the chances of losing say a 2018 referendum
He was worried about another migrant crisis this summer.
He should have realized that Merkel's decision to let in so many last year coupled with the immigration figures in the middle of the campaign would need a good answer. He didn't have one.
To win an argument, you don't concentrate on your best arguments. You need to concentrate on your opponent's best one and how to counter it. Or - to put it another way - where was the weakness in the government's case and how would they deal with it?
That failure to think that through and prepare the ground months before the official campaign was what finally sunk it. (Though I tend to think that the Remain vote was lost long before then. Enough people were waiting to give the establishment - of which the EU was seen as a prime example - a kicking.)
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
I'm not sure they do. And if the triumphalist tone - which is tiresome since the difference between voting either Remain or Leave reluctantly was a very finely judged decision for, I suspect, a lot of people - continues into actual policies it could well be a disaster.
How Brexit turns out for all of us, however we voted, is very much up in the air.
I will reserve judgment on May for now. The appointments of Davis and Fox do not fill me with confidence.
I hear you, cuz. I also have my doubts about TMay. I'd have preferred Boris.
However, we are where we are, and at least she is a cunning politician - much more cunning than Cameron. I suspect she is a better negotiator than him, as well, and will serve the nation honourably during Brexit. She's also more acceptable to Scots, which is important right now.
Her statism annoys me, as it does you, but in
We can turn ourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is David Cameron the only PM ever to lose a referendum? (Accepting that there have been very few?)
DC was often criticised by the left for being out-of-touch (for which read 'posh') - and I never really bought it; or at least never really saw it as important; Posh people can be perfectly in touch. But actually, it proved his undoing; he completely misunderstood how eurosceptic Britain really was. A leader who better understood his own nation would have had a much better idea of what sort of a deal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
We never really got to the bottom of why Cameron rushed it so much. He seemed to want to agree something, anything, tell me where to sign asap.
He didn't fancy
i) Conducting negotiations during the French and German elections in 2017
ii) He didn't want this Parliament to do be dominated by the referendum
iii) The longer the government stays in power, the more unpopular it becomes, so it increases the chances of losing say a 2018 referendum
All true but he failed to see quite how much groundswell of anti EU feeling there was. He conducted a negotiation in my view where he had no intention of ever walking away, if the deal was bad. And God it was a huge clucking turkey. It smacked of essay crisis "get this out of the way, declare victory with whatever scrap I've been thrown. I'll walk it and win by 20 points".
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
I have just got home and read the shadow cabinet news. Jeremy Corbyn must be a Tory plant. He simply must be. Diane Abbott as Home Secretary? It seems like he is deliberately alienating the white working class Brexit voters Labour need so much. He already had Emily Thornberry as shadow foreign and she mocked flying the England flag. Now someone with a long history of anti-white comments as shadow home. It defies belief.
And Nia Griffiths as shadow defence and onside with abolition of Trident.
The whole labour mess makes you despair - how could it have come to this - a London left wing elite out of touch with reality.
We have to be thankful that we have a Prime Minister who loves her Country and can be trusted 100% to defend our Country against threats to our security home and abroad. At the same time she will take us out of the EU, reinstate the sovereignty of our Parliament and reject our laws coming under Luxembourg
I keep thinking of that vox pop the BBC had yesterday. The woman in Hastings: "that Labour lot, they're just a mess, the UKIP lot, they're a mess as well, who do we vote for," *sad shrug* "she [Theresa May] is the only option"
As things stand, TMay will get a massive majority, simply by being sane.
It is when people start to give up on May, which is probably only a matter of time, that we should really worry. Or pray for return of those nice LibDems.
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
The latest poll showed 49% want a hard Brexit. I am convinced there has been a move to leave and expect that will accelerate as more people get to know Theresa May and trust her
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
I've said it before but when the Sunday papers had the leaks about the deal I thought "expectation management", incredibly the reality was worse. That was the point my near certainty of voting Remain started to slide away. Lord knows what Dave was thinking.
I have just got home and read the shadow cabinet news. Jeremy Corbyn must be a Tory plant. He simply must be. Diane Abbott as Home Secretary? It seems like he is deliberately alienating the white working class Brexit voters Labour need so much. He already had Emily Thornberry as shadow foreign and she mocked flying the England flag. Now someone with a long history of anti-white comments as shadow home. It defies belief.
And Nia Griffiths as shadow defence and onside with abolition of Trident.
The whole labour mess makes you despair - how could it have come to this - a London left wing elite out of touch with reality.
We have to be thankful that we have a Prime Minister who loves her Country and can be trusted 100% to defend our Country against threats to our security home and abroad. At the same time she will take us out of the EU, reinstate the sovereignty of our Parliament and reject our laws coming under Luxembourg
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
Both the 52% and the 48% can be broken down into smaller groupings.
May should understand some of the 48% as she was one of them.
I think this research about Britain's 'political tribes' was very interesting:
I hear yourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is Daveal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Tish tish! Thatcher's reputation has actually climbed since she resigned. Polls show she is regarded as the most successful postwar PM.
Still mad as a box of frogs when she left. Attlee and Churchill are the only ones.
I hear yourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is Daveal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Tish tish! Thatcher's reputation has actually climbed since she resigned. Polls show she is regarded as the most successful postwar PM.
Oh, I'd far rather lose or be forced out, and have my reputation rise subsequently, than the reverse.
I hear you, cuz. I also have my doubts about TMay. I'd have preferred Boris.
However, we are where we are, and at least she is a cunning politician - much more cunning than Cameron. I suspect she is a better negotiator than him, as well, and will serve the nation honourably during Brexit. She's also more acceptable to Scots, which is important right now.
Her statism annoys me, as it does you, but in
We can turn ourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is David Cameron the only PM ever to lose a referendum? (Accepting that there have been very few?)
DC was often criticised by the left for being out-of-touch (for which read 'posh') - and I never really bought it; or at least never really saw it as important; Posh t.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
The latest poll showed 49% want a hard Brexit. I am convinced there has been a move to leave and expect that will accelerate as more people get to know Theresa May and trust her
I voted Remain and favour Hard Brexit now. I always have thought the EEA/EFTA was the worst of both worlds.
I hear yourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is Daveal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Tish tish! Thatcher's reputation has actually climbed since she resigned. Polls show she is regarded as the most successful postwar PM.
Still mad as a box of frogs when she left. Attlee and Churchill are the only ones.
Attlee did more than anyone to set us on the wrong path after WW2.
I hear yourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is Daveal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Tish tish! Thatcher's reputation has actually climbed since she resigned. Polls show she is regarded as the most successful postwar PM.
Still mad as a box of frogs when she left. Attlee and Churchill are the only ones.
Churchill's career ended in failure, too; as a peacetime leader he was pretty useless. But obviously his career peak was great enough to ensure this was forgotten/forgiven.
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
Farron doesn't need to seek to govern. He needs to seek to get the LibDems back up to 15-20%. That requires an entirely different set of tactics.
Corbyn clearly doesn't understand the country. I can't call it between May and Cameron. May has judged the mood of the moment better but I'm not yet persuaded whether that's a tenable position in the long term.
Generally I believe that Britain becomes more socially liberal over time: capital punishment, corporal punishment, fox hunting, gay marriage. May is a reaction against that trend. Is it the end of the trend or just a hiccup?
I hear you, cuz. I also have my doubts about TMay. I'd have preferred Boris.
However, we are where we are, and at least she is a cunning politician - much more cunning than Cameron. I suspect she is a better negotiator than him, as well, and will serve the nation honourably during Brexit. She's also more acceptable to Scots, which is important right now.
Her statism annoys me, as it does you, but in
We can turn ourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is David Cameron the only PM ever to lose a referendum? (Accepting that there have been very few?)
DC was often criticised by the left for being out-of-touch (for which read 'posh') - and I never really bought it; or at least never really saw it as important; Posh t.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Churchill lost in 1945 by a landslide.
His career didn't end in failure. He suffered failure (several times) during his career.
I hear yourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is Daveal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Tish tish! Thatcher's reputation has actually climbed since she resigned. Polls show she is regarded as the most successful postwar PM.
I wonder how much that is because Thatcher is regarded as having won a just war (actually two if you count the Cold War).
Compare with the warmongering and military failures of Blair and Cameron.
Maybe also because Thatcher is associated with increased home ownership whereas its been in decline now for over a decade.
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
The latest poll showed 49% want a hard Brexit. I am convinced there has been a move to leave and expect that will accelerate as more people get to know Theresa May and trust her
Theresa May will go down, and I don't say this pejoratively, as the first western leader to adopt the political philosophy of Putinism.
I hear yourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is Daveal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Tish tish! Thatcher's reputation has actually climbed since she resigned. Polls show she is regarded as the most successful postwar PM.
Still mad as a box of frogs when she left. Attlee and Churchill are the only ones.
Churchill's career ended in failure, too; as a peacetime leader he was pretty useless. But obviously his career peak was great enough to ensure this was forgotten/forgiven.
I think that by 1943 he was a man of the past. His actions in 1940-41 were essential, but his influence towards the end of the war, and in the tripartite discussions with Stalin and Roosevelt not always productive.
I hear yourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is Daveal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Tish tish! Thatcher's reputation has actually climbed since she resigned. Polls show she is regarded as the most successful postwar PM.
Still mad as a box of frogs when she left. Attlee and Churchill are the only ones.
Attlee did more than anyone to set us on the wrong path after WW2.
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
The latest poll showed 49% want a hard Brexit. I am convinced there has been a move to leave and expect that will accelerate as more people get to know Theresa May and trust her
Theresa May will go down, and I don't say this pejoratively, as the first western leader to adopt the political philosophy of Putinism.
Ohmyword. Go to bed.
on Putin's territorial ambitions.. I hear May has been dusting off the government's copy of the Treaty of Troyes... ...
I hear yourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is Daveal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Tish tish! Thatcher's reputation has actually climbed since she resigned. Polls show she is regarded as the most successful postwar PM.
Still mad as a box of frogs when she left. Attlee and Churchill are the only ones.
Attlee did more than anyone to set us on the wrong path after WW2.
Agreed.
Churchill did little to reverse Attlee's welfare state when he regained power in 1951. Was that a failure too?
I have just got home and read the shadow cabinet news. Jeremy Corbyn must be a Tory plant. He simply must be. Diane Abbott as Home Secretary? It seems like he is deliberately alienating the white working class Brexit voters Labour need so much. He already had Emily Thornberry as shadow foreign and she mocked flying the England flag. Now someone with a long history of anti-white comments as shadow home. It defies belief.
And Nia Griffiths as shadow defence and onside with abolition of Trident.
The whole labour mess makes you despair - how could it have come to this - a London left wing elite out of touch with reality.
We have to be thankful that we have a Prime Minister who loves her Country and can be trusted 100% to defend our Country against threats to our security home and abroad. At the same time she will take us out of the EU, reinstate the sovereignty of our Parliament and reject our laws coming under Luxembourg
Reading downthread, I also see they have put someone who is convicted of domestic abuse at equalities. One of her briefs will be domestic abuse. There are completely hare-brained.
I hear yourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is Daveal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Tish tish! Thatcher's reputation has actually climbed since she resigned. Polls show she is regarded as the most successful postwar PM.
Still mad as a box of frogs when she left. Attlee and Churchill are the only ones.
Attlee did more than anyone to set us on the wrong path after WW2.
Agreed.
Churchill did little to reverse Attlee's welfare state when he regained power in 1951. Was that a failure too?
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
The latest poll showed 49% want a hard Brexit. I am convinced there has been a move to leave and expect that will accelerate as more people get to know Theresa May and trust her
Theresa May will go down, and I don't say this pejoratively, as the first western leader to adopt the political philosophy of Putinism.
I was tempted to say what utter bilge. But now I am fascinated by what you might think Putinism is that you could make such a statement. Pray tell.
I have just got home and read the shadow cabinet news. Jeremy Corbyn must be a Tory plant. He simply must be. Diane Abbott as Home Secretary? It seems like he is deliberately alienating the white working class Brexit voters Labour need so much. He already had Emily Thornberry as shadow foreign and she mocked flying the England flag. Now someone with a long history of anti-white comments as shadow home. It defies belief.
And Nia Griffiths as shadow defence and onside with abolition of Trident.
The whole labour mess makes you despair - how could it have come to this - a London left wing elite out of touch with reality.
We have to be thankful that we have a Prime Minister who loves her Country and can be trusted 100% to defend our Country against threats to our security home and abroad. At the same time she will take us out of the EU, reinstate the sovereignty of our Parliament and reject our laws coming under Luxembourg
It's very funny to think you voted Remain!
I have explained on several occasions that I was a eurosceptic remainer so my conversion to leave was easy and, just as I gave up smoking 14 years ago and now try to persuade everyone to stop smoking , there is nothing like talking to the converted
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is Daveal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Tish tish! Thatcher's reputation has actually climbed since she resigned. Polls show she is regarded as the most successful postwar PM.
Still mad as a box of frogs when she left. Attlee and Churchill are the only ones.
Churchill's career ended in failure, too; as a peacetime leader he was pretty useless. But obviously his career peak was great enough to ensure this was forgotten/forgiven.
I think that by 1943 he was a man of the past. His actions in 1940-41 were essential, but his influence towards the end of the war, and in the tripartite discussions with Stalin and Roosevelt not always productive.
Churchill was the personification of the British Empire.
His influence was thus crippled by the twin disasters of Singapore and Tobruk.
I hear you, cuz. I also have my doubts about TMay. I'd have preferred Boris.
However, we are where we are, and at least she is a cunning politician - much more cunning than Cameron. I suspect she is a better negotiator than him, as well, and will serve the nation honourably during Brexit. She's also more acceptable to Scots, which is important right now.
Her statism annoys me, as it does you, but in
We can turn ourselves into Singapore-times-a-million later.
Hmm, soes it too, which makes her dangerous.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
.
e.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Churchill lost in 1945 by a landslide.
His career didn't end in failure. He suffered failure (several times) during his career.
His performance during his last spell in office wasn't a success; his physical and mental health were declining (depression and alcoholism both well evidenced), by the end he was hardly ever able to attend parliament. As PM he clung to the empire of his youth and his government saw some of the most shameful episodes in British history such as Kenya and Malaya. Fortunately for him, in those days we didn't go in for long enquiries afterwards. In his final election his personal majority sunk despite a general swing to the Tories.
He is effectively remembered as if he had died in 1945. Given his greatness that is just.
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
The latest poll showed 49% want a hard Brexit. I am convinced there has been a move to leave and expect that will accelerate as more people get to know Theresa May and trust her
Theresa May will go down, and I don't say this pejoratively, as the first western leader to adopt the political philosophy of Putinism.
Ohmyword. Go to bed.
I mean it: National before global, a strong state, tough on oligarchs if they don't support the national interest, respectful of the patriotism of the average citizen, belief in borders (well perhaps with less willingness to move them...).
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
The latest poll showed 49% want a hard Brexit. I am convinced there has been a move to leave and expect that will accelerate as more people get to know Theresa May and trust her
Theresa May will go down, and I don't say this pejoratively, as the first western leader to adopt the political philosophy of Putinism.
I was tempted to say what utter bilge. But now I am fascinated by what you might think Putinism is that you could make such a statement. Pray tell.
Mr Tim, I think the phrase you're looking for is 'vapid bilge'
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
The latest poll showed 49% want a hard Brexit. I am convinced there has been a move to leave and expect that will accelerate as more people get to know Theresa May and trust her
I voted Remain and favour Hard Brexit now. I always have thought the EEA/EFTA was the worst of both worlds.
Agreed......I wouldn't want to be a subsidiary member of the EU if we allow the others to set the rules for us.
If the EU exists and strengthens in the future, we will come back with the tail between our legs (much as did in the 70's). If it all falls apart, then Brexit was prescient...but Europe will be a diminished place. Heads we lose. Tails we lose.
I don't want inept posh twats in charge of my country any more. Get rid of these flailing gimps. "I want to be prime minister because I think I'd be quite good at it". FUCK OFF.
Bring on the grammar school girls. They've served us well before.
Is Daveal the British electorate would accept.
Exactly right. He failed in the most fundamental way, for a politician: he misinterpreted his own country.
Everyone fails, eventually. I am puzzled that he thought the deal he achieved in February would be well received.
Agreed. If he had simply sought to sell the status quo with the vague promise of future reform he might have won. It was that vivid demonstration that meaningful change within the EU was impossible that ultimately made the EU unsellable.
Enoch Powell's dictum is entirely right. Even those politicians who retire undefeated, like Baldwin or Blair, see their reputations plummet.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party, Baldwin - detested as an appeaser, Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side, Attlee - lost two elections, Eden - Suez was a disaster, Macmillan - forced out by his party, Douglas-Home - lost the election, Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure, Heath - lost two elections, Callaghan - lost the election, Thatcher - forced out by her own party, Blair - widely reviled, Brown - lost the election, Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
Tish tish! Thatcher's reputation has actually climbed since she resigned. Polls show she is regarded as the most successful postwar PM.
Still mad as a box of frogs when she left. Attlee and Churchill are the only ones.
Churchill's career ended in failure, too; as a peacetime leader he was pretty useless. But obviously his career peak was great enough to ensure this was forgotten/forgiven.
I think that by 1943 he was a man of the past. His actions in 1940-41 were essential, but his influence towards the end of the war, and in the tripartite discussions with Stalin and Roosevelt not always productive.
Churchill was the personification of the British Empire.
His influence was thus crippled by the twin disasters of Singapore and Tobruk.
His failure to prepare for the Independence of India was a major failure too.
I see impartial Evan Davis calling ukip fruitcakes and nutters and you can't have a leader who started a fight. I wonder if he would ask labour of you could have a leader and shadow chancellor who are terrorist sympathizers....what about MPs who beat their partners being in the shadow cabinet?
I see impartial Evan Davis calling ukip fruitcakes and nutters and you can't have a leader who started a fight. I wonder if he would ask labour of you could have a leader and shadow chancellor who are terrorist sympathizers.
Neil Hamilton has no sense what his best interest is. He just blunders into areas that would be better if he STFU. He could have been re-building his reputation through solid work not through taking a front line position.
Neil Hamilton has no sense what his best interest is. He just blunders into areas that would be better if he STFU. He could have been re-building his reputation through solid work not through taking a front line position.
He's a dick, but I do have a sneaking admiration at how he keeps going despite his historical record and ongoing gaffes.
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
The latest poll showed 49% want a hard Brexit. I am convinced there has been a move to leave and expect that will accelerate as more people get to know Theresa May and trust her
Theresa May will go down, and I don't say this pejoratively, as the first western leader to adopt the political philosophy of Putinism.
Ohmyword. Go to bed.
I mean it: National before global, a strong state, tough on oligarchs if they don't support the national interest, respectful of the patriotism of the average citizen, belief in borders (well perhaps with less willingness to move them...).
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
The latest poll showed 49% want a hard Brexit. I am convinced there has been a move to leave and expect that will accelerate as more people get to know Theresa May and trust her
Theresa May will go down, and I don't say this pejoratively, as the first western leader to adopt the political philosophy of Putinism.
Ohmyword. Go to bed.
No. I too would like to hear more about this fascinating theory.
I have just got home and read the shadow cabinet news. Jeremy Corbyn must be a Tory plant. He simply must be. Diane Abbott as Home Secretary? It seems like he is deliberately alienating the white working class Brexit voters Labour need so much. He already had Emily Thornberry as shadow foreign and she mocked flying the England flag. Now someone with a long history of anti-white comments as shadow home. It defies belief.
And Nia Griffiths as shadow defence and onside with abolition of Trident.
The whole labour mess makes you despair - how could it have come to this - a London left wing elite out of touch with reality.
We have to be thankful that we have a Prime Minister who loves her Country and can be trusted 100% to defend our Country against threats to our security home and abroad. At the same time she will take us out of the EU, reinstate the sovereignty of our Parliament and reject our laws coming under Luxembourg
It's very funny to think you voted Remain!
I have explained on several occasions that I was a eurosceptic remainer so my conversion to leave was easy and, just as I gave up smoking 14 years ago and now try to persuade everyone to stop smoking , there is nothing like talking to the converted
I have just got home and read the shadow cabinet news. Jeremy Corbyn must be a Tory plant. He simply must be. Diane Abbott as Home Secretary? It seems like he is deliberately alienating the white working class Brexit voters Labour need so much. He already had Emily Thornberry as shadow foreign and she mocked flying the England flag. Now someone with a long history of anti-white comments as shadow home. It defies belief.
And Nia Griffiths as shadow defence and onside with abolition of Trident.
The whole labour mess makes you despair - how could it have come to this - a London left wing elite out of touch with reality.
We have to be thankful that we have a Prime Minister who loves her Country and can be trusted 100% to defend our Country against threats to our security home and abroad. At the same time she will take us out of the EU, reinstate the sovereignty of our Parliament and reject our laws coming under Luxembourg
It's very funny to think you voted Remain!
Big G is a thinking patriot and a proper Tory.
I'm not a Conservative, but dudes like Big G are the absolute SPINE of the nation. They respect the vote of the people, and move on. If only the shrill liberal Tweeters were the same.
That is one of the nicest comments I have received on this forum and feel quite humble really
It seems to me that Cameron, Corbyn and Farron all do not understand the country they seek (or sought) to govern. Whether May does we shall see.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
The difference between understanding the 52% and the 48% is critical, but a very small one.
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
A large part of the 48% were frightened into voting through project fear and as time goes on they are going to feel that they were duped. At one point I feared an interest rate rise because the Governor said it was going to happen if we voted to LEAVE......
The latest poll showed 49% want a hard Brexit. I am convinced there has been a move to leave and expect that will accelerate as more people get to know Theresa May and trust her
Theresa May will go down, and I don't say this pejoratively, as the first western leader to adopt the political philosophy of Putinism.
Ohmyword. Go to bed.
I mean it: National before global, a strong state, tough on oligarchs if they don't support the national interest, respectful of the patriotism of the average citizen, belief in borders (well perhaps with less willingness to move them...).
That's a rather generous assessment of Putin.
A generous assessment is possible, hence why he still commands strong support in the parts of Russia that might very loosely be compared with the parts of the UK that voted for Brexit.
Not a great night for Labour so far: down 28% in Wales and losing to UKIP in Hartlepool.
They are up in the other Welsh seat result. I find it hard to get excited about these things, as the number of voters is so extremely small as to be statistically irrelevant.
Comments
This is, unfortunately, a common problem with Prime Ministers (indeed of MPs and civil servants in general), who end up living in Zone 1 as part of the job and can end up going rather native.
Labour Leader - Islington N
Labour Chancellor - Hayes
Labour Foreign - Islington S
Labour Home - Hackney N
Labour Brexit - Holborn
Very diverse.
So far, she seems to be the only one who seems to have some inkling that there are very many voters who do not accept the assumptions and the political realities which have been the default for so long.
i) Conducting negotiations during the French and German elections in 2017
ii) He didn't want this Parliament to do be dominated by the referendum
iii) The longer the government stays in power, the more unpopular it becomes, so it increases the chances of losing say a 2018 referendum
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/508836/how-obama-used-big-data-to-rally-voters-part-1/
Could he have got a better deal if he had been more patient?. Possibly. Would it have made for a different outcome? Probably not.
The whole labour mess makes you despair - how could it have come to this - a London left wing elite out of touch with reality.
We have to be thankful that we have a Prime Minister who loves her Country and can be trusted 100% to defend our Country against threats to our security home and abroad. At the same time she will take us out of the EU, reinstate the sovereignty of our Parliament and reject our laws coming under Luxembourg
Do the Brexiteers understand the 48% any more than Cameron understand the 52%?
I'm not sure how that fits into having an 'incredible intellect'.
In reality he was a moderate ability schemer who wasn't as clever as he thought he was.
"Are you a Leaver or do you want a career ?"
could be his political epitaph.
Just as Cameron wanted to be the Conservative Blair but wasn't as successful as the original, Osborne wanted to be the Conservative Brown but again wasn't as successful.
He should have realized that Merkel's decision to let in so many last year coupled with the immigration figures in the middle of the campaign would need a good answer. He didn't have one.
To win an argument, you don't concentrate on your best arguments. You need to concentrate on your opponent's best one and how to counter it. Or - to put it another way - where was the weakness in the government's case and how would they deal with it?
That failure to think that through and prepare the ground months before the official campaign was what finally sunk it. (Though I tend to think that the Remain vote was lost long before then. Enough people were waiting to give the establishment - of which the EU was seen as a prime example - a kicking.)
How Brexit turns out for all of us, however we voted, is very much up in the air.
I will reserve judgment on May for now. The appointments of Davis and Fox do not fill me with confidence.
Thinking about them all:-
Lloyd George - destroyed his own party,
Baldwin - detested as an appeaser,
Chamberlin - ditto, and forced out by his own side,
Attlee - lost two elections,
Eden - Suez was a disaster,
Macmillan - forced out by his party,
Douglas-Home - lost the election,
Wilson - retired on his own terms, but regarded as a failure,
Heath - lost two elections,
Callaghan - lost the election,
Thatcher - forced out by her own party,
Blair - widely reviled,
Brown - lost the election,
Cameron - lost the Referendum.
Churchill's the only one who left when he wanted, and whose reputation is intact.
You can't fool all the people all the time.
It's very funny to think you voted Remain!
May should understand some of the 48% as she was one of them.
I think this research about Britain's 'political tribes' was very interesting:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/10/immigration-divides-left-unites-right-two-tribes
Thatcher was successful in what she achieved.
Corbyn clearly doesn't understand the country. I can't call it between May and Cameron. May has judged the mood of the moment better but I'm not yet persuaded whether that's a tenable position in the long term.
Generally I believe that Britain becomes more socially liberal over time: capital punishment, corporal punishment, fox hunting, gay marriage. May is a reaction against that trend. Is it the end of the trend or just a hiccup?
Compare with the warmongering and military failures of Blair and Cameron.
Maybe also because Thatcher is associated with increased home ownership whereas its been in decline now for over a decade.
His influence was thus crippled by the twin disasters of Singapore and Tobruk.
He is effectively remembered as if he had died in 1945. Given his greatness that is just.
I mean it: National before global, a strong state, tough on oligarchs if they don't support the national interest, respectful of the patriotism of the average citizen, belief in borders (well perhaps with less willingness to move them...).
If the EU exists and strengthens in the future, we will come back with the tail between our legs (much as did in the 70's). If it all falls apart, then Brexit was prescient...but Europe will be a diminished place. Heads we lose. Tails we lose.
Wonder if his zeal for politics is waning?
Hmmm.
https://twitter.com/ElectProject/status/784146289206321152?s=09
Labour are gone outside of the largest metro areas.