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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The polls did far better at the EU referendum than is widel

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,716
    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Daily Mail reports the Camerons may be set to move to Manhattan after a British writer recently returned from the city was hosted at Chequers and Sam Cam was 'grilling the writer’s companion about life in Manhattan and where the best districts were to live.' She will focus on her fashion label while he writes his memoirs and joins the lecture circuit.

    Cameron has also redrawn the guest list for his 50th birthday party next month, removing any former close friends who backed Leave and especially anyone who backed the Gove leadership bid. Steve Hilton may also not even get a mention in his memoirs as a punishment for his backing Brexit.

    Finally, he is angry at the sacking of Osborne and 'he thinks the grammar schools decision is a complete disaster. He saw grammars as Eton writ small, and that stopping them helped ordinary people. Now, she is doing the opposite.’ His concerns over the direction May was taking clearly influenced his decision to stand down as an MP too.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3786217/He-s-angry-vengeful-broken-loss-power-stop-New-York-Dave-Samantha.html#ixzz4KABtt9ZD

    FILTNY.

    I, of course, only moved from London to New York because my American wife wanted to go back.
    Wives obviously have the deciding vote!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930

    surbiton said:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/13/david-davis-admits-possibility-of-uk-exiting-eu-without-trade-deal

    Hold on. WE were told the EU had to give us the single market because we were so important !

    The idiots.

    He's saying it's not a likely outcome ...
    I think it's all part of the pre-negotiation posturing.
  • rcs1000 said:

    surbiton said:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/13/david-davis-admits-possibility-of-uk-exiting-eu-without-trade-deal

    Hold on. WE were told the EU had to give us the single market because we were so important !

    The idiots.

    He's saying it's not a likely outcome ...
    I think it's all part of the pre-negotiation posturing.
    Agreed, if we weren't willing to contemplate that then we'd be far weaker in the negotiations.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930
    Pulpstar said:

    Mrs T Mrs May cleaning out more of Cameron / Osborne appointments...

    The head of the BBC Trust, Rona Fairhead, has resigned after Theresa May asked her to re-apply for her own £110,000-a-year post.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3787874/BBC-chairman-Rona-Fairhead-steps-down.html

    How long will we have to wait for the inevitable taxpayer funded constructive dismissal case...
    David Cameron to bring constructive dismissal case... Interesting...
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Looking at the table produced by Anthony Wells of the new constituencies, the LD are in second place in:

    10 Labour seats
    50 Conservatives seats

    Will this affect how they project themselves?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,716
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Daily Mail reports the Camerons may be set to move to Manhattan after a British writer recently returned from the city was hosted at Chequers and Sam Cam was 'grilling the writer’s companion about life in Manhattan and where the best districts were to live.' She will focus on her fashion label while he writes his memoirs and joins the lecture circuit.

    Cameron has also redrawn the guest list for his 50th birthday party next month, removing any former close friends who backed Leave and especially anyone who backed the Gove leadership bid. Steve Hilton may also not even get a mention in his memoirs as a punishment for his backing Brexit.

    Finally, he is angry at the sacking of Osborne and 'he thinks the grammar schools decision is a complete disaster. He saw grammars as Eton writ small, and that stopping them helped ordinary people. Now, she is doing the opposite.’ His concerns over the direction May was taking clearly influenced his decision to stand down as an MP too.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3786217/He-s-angry-vengeful-broken-loss-power-stop-New-York-Dave-Samantha.html#ixzz4KABtt9ZD

    If true, that doesn't reflect well on him.

    If you've benefitted from an Etonian education, it seems wrong to deny it to people who, if not poor, are still much further down the food chain than you are.
    Indeed, am not sure I understand Cameron's logic in that comments which seems to be attacking both his old alma mater and grammar schools at the same time!
    He sees grammar and private schools as means of vesting upper and middle class privilege. He is right of course.
    Comprehensive schools in the wealthiest catchment areas of course arguably do that even more
    That's his point yes. And he is right.
    No he is wrong as grammar schools are the only state schools which truly challenge the top private schools at the top universities and in the top professions
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930

    Love Productions is understood to have accused the BBC of “ripping off” the Bake Off format to create two new shows, involving the search for the nation’s leading amateur artist and hair stylist.

    While the BBC has tried to portray the loss of the baking show as a purely financial matter, a source at the corporation said that there had been a “total breakdown of trust” between the broadcaster and the production company, which made it “impossible” to agree a deal.

    It is understood that Love threatened to sue the corporation over Hair, a BBC Three programme released in early 2014 that was billed by the broadcaster as “a competition to find Britain’s best amateur hair stylist”, and was widely reported as being akin to a “Bake Off for hairdressing”. The corporation had agreed to a financial settlement with the production company, to prevent the case going to court.

    Barely a year later, the corporation was accused of attempting a similar move over the BBC One show, The Big Painting Challenge, presented by Richard Bacon and Una Stubbs. The broadcaster billed the programme as a “nationwide search for Britain’s best amateur artist”, which Love again complained bore all the hallmarks of its own baking show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/sue-perkins-and-mel-giedroyc-to-step-down-as-great-british-bake/

    Didn't SeanT once accuse them of nicking an idea he pitched to them?

    They - and anyone else - is free to steal any idea. There's no copyright on ideas.
  • MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh absolutely. But grammar schools were the private schools the middle class could not afford. They dominated them because their children came from homes where books were read, where homework was important, where ambition was encouraged. In latter times they could also afford the necessary tutoring. People who point to the odd working class exception there with a scholarship to pay for his or her uniform are guilty of either wishful thinking or deliberate blindness. They were not a ladder for more than a handful of the poor, they were an escalator built for the middle classes. And going back to that simply will not improve social mobility.

    Grammar schools were also great for the children of immigrants. Mine was around a third Indian and a fifth other Asian. I'd say it was about 50/50 white British to non-white British. Speaking as the latter it was the only way I would ever have been able to get such a quality education. I got into a private school but my parents weren't able to work out the bursary in time and they could never have afforded the fees (~£4k per term iirc) without one.

    There needs to be a type of schooling that recognises and nurtures academic excellence outside of the fee paying sector. Grammar schools are part of the answer.
    They still are a fantastic way to help immigrants get on move forward and integrate. Ask anyone in Slough which has 5 - all of which are disproportionately populated with hardworking brown people.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    rcs1000 said:

    Love Productions is understood to have accused the BBC of “ripping off” the Bake Off format to create two new shows, involving the search for the nation’s leading amateur artist and hair stylist.

    While the BBC has tried to portray the loss of the baking show as a purely financial matter, a source at the corporation said that there had been a “total breakdown of trust” between the broadcaster and the production company, which made it “impossible” to agree a deal.

    It is understood that Love threatened to sue the corporation over Hair, a BBC Three programme released in early 2014 that was billed by the broadcaster as “a competition to find Britain’s best amateur hair stylist”, and was widely reported as being akin to a “Bake Off for hairdressing”. The corporation had agreed to a financial settlement with the production company, to prevent the case going to court.

    Barely a year later, the corporation was accused of attempting a similar move over the BBC One show, The Big Painting Challenge, presented by Richard Bacon and Una Stubbs. The broadcaster billed the programme as a “nationwide search for Britain’s best amateur artist”, which Love again complained bore all the hallmarks of its own baking show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/sue-perkins-and-mel-giedroyc-to-step-down-as-great-british-bake/

    Didn't SeanT once accuse them of nicking an idea he pitched to them?

    They - and anyone else - is free to steal any idea. There's no copyright on ideas.
    Ideas no, format yes.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    BigRich said:

    Looking at the table produced by Anthony Wells of the new constituencies, the LD are in second place in:

    10 Labour seats
    50 Conservatives seats

    Will this affect how they project themselves?

    So the LDs will be relying on many more tactical Labour votes than tactical Tory votes!
  • rcs1000 said:

    Love Productions is understood to have accused the BBC of “ripping off” the Bake Off format to create two new shows, involving the search for the nation’s leading amateur artist and hair stylist.

    While the BBC has tried to portray the loss of the baking show as a purely financial matter, a source at the corporation said that there had been a “total breakdown of trust” between the broadcaster and the production company, which made it “impossible” to agree a deal.

    It is understood that Love threatened to sue the corporation over Hair, a BBC Three programme released in early 2014 that was billed by the broadcaster as “a competition to find Britain’s best amateur hair stylist”, and was widely reported as being akin to a “Bake Off for hairdressing”. The corporation had agreed to a financial settlement with the production company, to prevent the case going to court.

    Barely a year later, the corporation was accused of attempting a similar move over the BBC One show, The Big Painting Challenge, presented by Richard Bacon and Una Stubbs. The broadcaster billed the programme as a “nationwide search for Britain’s best amateur artist”, which Love again complained bore all the hallmarks of its own baking show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/sue-perkins-and-mel-giedroyc-to-step-down-as-great-british-bake/

    Didn't SeanT once accuse them of nicking an idea he pitched to them?

    They - and anyone else - is free to steal any idea. There's no copyright on ideas.
    No but it is damn rudeness at the very leazt to use material you wrote, ring you up and email you questions about it and the general subject on numerous occasions and then neglect to mention you in the program credits.
  • justin124 said:

    BigRich said:

    Looking at the table produced by Anthony Wells of the new constituencies, the LD are in second place in:

    10 Labour seats
    50 Conservatives seats

    Will this affect how they project themselves?

    So the LDs will be relying on many more tactical Labour votes than tactical Tory votes!
    Which is why the coalition was so electorally disastrous for them.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    BigRich said:

    Looking at the table produced by Anthony Wells of the new constituencies, the LD are in second place in:

    10 Labour seats
    50 Conservatives seats

    Will this affect how they project themselves?

    Doubtful. It's a bit late to (a) have a membership transplant and (b) elect Norman Lamb as leader. Their new strategy, in so far as anybody seems to have observed or commented upon one, is described as remaking themselves as the "Ukip of the 48%." Might help recover three lost seats in West London, but not necessarily a winning pitch to the Tory shires.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited September 2016
    Jeremy Corbyn has promised a raft of new “organising academies” to train Labour activists for the next election,

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/13/jeremy-corbyn-plans-academies-to-train-labour-activists

    I can just imagine what the lessons will be like. Antisemitism vs Anti-Zionism, Hamas are our friends not our enemies, Mao Little Red book...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,716

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Even though we have entered the zone of selected amnesia about polling, my opinion has not changed.

    British polls continue to be unreliable and unstable, because those conducting the polls have little faith in their own results, and have to constantly shift the numbers here and there until they conform to their own personal view.

    Indeed, Survation had an eve of poll general election poll that was almost exactly right but did not publish. Had more pollsters focused only on those 10/10 certain to vote in EU ref they would also have been more accurate
    There was a late one from Survey Monkey that had a large sample size and from memory was pretty accurate, using quite different methodology to UK polls.
    Yes, some lessons can be learnt from America
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    BigRich said:

    Looking at the table produced by Anthony Wells of the new constituencies, the LD are in second place in:

    10 Labour seats
    50 Conservatives seats

    Will this affect how they project themselves?

    So the LDs will be relying on many more tactical Labour votes than tactical Tory votes!
    Which is why the coalition was so electorally disastrous for them.
    Indeed so - and also why any attempt to win back such voters will be easily repulsed by Labour shouting 'You cannot trust the LibDems not to put the Tories in!'
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Jeremy Corbyn has promised a raft of new “organising academies” to train Labour activists for the next election,

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/13/jeremy-corbyn-plans-academies-to-train-labour-activists

    I can just imagine what the lessons will be like. Antisemitism vs Anti-Zionism, Hamas are our friends not our enemies, Mao Little Red book...

    Ahhhh you jest our power, you make fun of our ability to control you......You will see when we mobilise our stunning "ground game....."

    Mwhahahahahanananananana. Mwhahahahahahahahaha.......
  • rcs1000 said:

    Love Productions is understood to have accused the BBC of “ripping off” the Bake Off format to create two new shows, involving the search for the nation’s leading amateur artist and hair stylist.

    While the BBC has tried to portray the loss of the baking show as a purely financial matter, a source at the corporation said that there had been a “total breakdown of trust” between the broadcaster and the production company, which made it “impossible” to agree a deal.

    It is understood that Love threatened to sue the corporation over Hair, a BBC Three programme released in early 2014 that was billed by the broadcaster as “a competition to find Britain’s best amateur hair stylist”, and was widely reported as being akin to a “Bake Off for hairdressing”. The corporation had agreed to a financial settlement with the production company, to prevent the case going to court.

    Barely a year later, the corporation was accused of attempting a similar move over the BBC One show, The Big Painting Challenge, presented by Richard Bacon and Una Stubbs. The broadcaster billed the programme as a “nationwide search for Britain’s best amateur artist”, which Love again complained bore all the hallmarks of its own baking show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/sue-perkins-and-mel-giedroyc-to-step-down-as-great-british-bake/

    Didn't SeanT once accuse them of nicking an idea he pitched to them?

    They - and anyone else - is free to steal any idea. There's no copyright on ideas.
    No but it is damn rudeness at the very leazt to use material you wrote, ring you up and email you questions about it and the general subject on numerous occasions and then neglect to mention you in the program credits.
    There was an example in Private Eye a year or so ago. A production company took an idea to the BBC, who rejected it. Then, a coupe of years later, a program appeared on the BBC that was virtually identical to the pitch.

    It was made by a production company that now included ... the head of the board that rejected the bid by the other production company!
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh absolutely. But grammar schools were the private schools the middle class could not afford. They dominated them because their children came from homes where books were read, where homework was important, where ambition was encouraged. In latter times they could also afford the necessary tutoring. People who point to the odd working class exception there with a scholarship to pay for his or her uniform are guilty of either wishful thinking or deliberate blindness. They were not a ladder for more than a handful of the poor, they were an escalator built for the middle classes. And going back to that simply will not improve social mobility.

    Grammar schools were also great for the children of immigrants. Mine was around a third Indian and a fifth other Asian. I'd say it was about 50/50 white British to non-white British. Speaking as the latter it was the only way I would ever have been able to get such a quality education. I got into a private school but my parents weren't able to work out the bursary in time and they could never have afforded the fees (~£4k per term iirc) without one.

    There needs to be a type of schooling that recognises and nurtures academic excellence outside of the fee paying sector. Grammar schools are part of the answer.
    I went to Plympton Grammar, Joshua Reynold's school (now The Hele School comprehensive). It had a very large catchment area. So yes we had most of the children of middle class professionals, but also a lot of children of farmers and associated trades. And, being a suburb of Plymouth, plenty of armed forces, merchant marine and dockyarders. It was pretty eclectic and not at all class-ridden, as I remember it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,840

    rcs1000 said:

    Love Productions is understood to have accused the BBC of “ripping off” the Bake Off format to create two new shows, involving the search for the nation’s leading amateur artist and hair stylist.

    While the BBC has tried to portray the loss of the baking show as a purely financial matter, a source at the corporation said that there had been a “total breakdown of trust” between the broadcaster and the production company, which made it “impossible” to agree a deal.

    It is understood that Love threatened to sue the corporation over Hair, a BBC Three programme released in early 2014 that was billed by the broadcaster as “a competition to find Britain’s best amateur hair stylist”, and was widely reported as being akin to a “Bake Off for hairdressing”. The corporation had agreed to a financial settlement with the production company, to prevent the case going to court.

    Barely a year later, the corporation was accused of attempting a similar move over the BBC One show, The Big Painting Challenge, presented by Richard Bacon and Una Stubbs. The broadcaster billed the programme as a “nationwide search for Britain’s best amateur artist”, which Love again complained bore all the hallmarks of its own baking show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/sue-perkins-and-mel-giedroyc-to-step-down-as-great-british-bake/

    Didn't SeanT once accuse them of nicking an idea he pitched to them?

    They - and anyone else - is free to steal any idea. There's no copyright on ideas.
    No but it is damn rudeness at the very leazt to use material you wrote, ring you up and email you questions about it and the general subject on numerous occasions and then neglect to mention you in the program credits.
    There was an example in Private Eye a year or so ago. A production company took an idea to the BBC, who rejected it. Then, a coupe of years later, a program appeared on the BBC that was virtually identical to the pitch.
    !
    Isn't that how Deep Space Nine was created, after the guy who would be its creator pitched what became Babylon5 to the network?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,716
    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Daily Mail reports the Camerons may be set to move to Manhattan after a British writer recently returned from the city was hosted at Chequers and Sam Cam was 'grilling the writer’s companion about life in Manhattan and where the best districts were to live.' She will focus on her fashion label while he writes his memoirs and joins the lecture circuit.

    Cameron has also redrawn the guest list for his 50th birthday party next month, removing any former close friends who backed Leave and especially anyone who backed the Gove leadership bid. Steve Hilton may also not even get a mention in his memoirs as a punishment for his backing Brexit.

    Finally, he is angry at the sacking of Osborne and 'he thinks the grammar schools decision is a complete disaster. He saw grammars as Eton writ small, and that stopping them helped ordinary people. Now, she is doing the opposite.’ His concerns over the direction May was taking clearly influenced his decision to stand down as an MP too.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3786217/He-s-angry-vengeful-broken-loss-power-stop-New-York-Dave-Samantha.html#ixzz4KABtt9ZD

    What a petty-minded man he is if those reports are true.
    Certainly he does not take kindly to those he sees as disloyal
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    BigRich said:

    Looking at the table produced by Anthony Wells of the new constituencies, the LD are in second place in:

    10 Labour seats
    50 Conservatives seats

    Will this affect how they project themselves?

    So the LDs will be relying on many more tactical Labour votes than tactical Tory votes!
    Which is why the coalition was so electorally disastrous for them.
    Indeed so - and also why any attempt to win back such voters will be easily repulsed by Labour shouting 'You cannot trust the LibDems not to put the Tories in!'
    While that will definitely be true for a portion of Labour voters, I don't think it's universally true. Furthermore, Jeremy Corbyn is probably not a vote magnet for Labour voters in seats like Twickenham.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,840
    rcs1000 said:

    Love Productions is understood to have accused the BBC of “ripping off” the Bake Off format to create two new shows, involving the search for the nation’s leading amateur artist and hair stylist.

    While the BBC has tried to portray the loss of the baking show as a purely financial matter, a source at the corporation said that there had been a “total breakdown of trust” between the broadcaster and the production company, which made it “impossible” to agree a deal.

    It is understood that Love threatened to sue the corporation over Hair, a BBC Three programme released in early 2014 that was billed by the broadcaster as “a competition to find Britain’s best amateur hair stylist”, and was widely reported as being akin to a “Bake Off for hairdressing”. The corporation had agreed to a financial settlement with the production company, to prevent the case going to court.

    Barely a year later, the corporation was accused of attempting a similar move over the BBC One show, The Big Painting Challenge, presented by Richard Bacon and Una Stubbs. The broadcaster billed the programme as a “nationwide search for Britain’s best amateur artist”, which Love again complained bore all the hallmarks of its own baking show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/sue-perkins-and-mel-giedroyc-to-step-down-as-great-british-bake/

    Didn't SeanT once accuse them of nicking an idea he pitched to them?

    They - and anyone else - is free to steal any idea. There's no copyright on ideas.
    And of course many ideas are so simple and generic that even if that formula truly was blatantly ripped off, it is very easy to claim it was independently thought of. There's nothing new under the sun.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930

    rcs1000 said:

    Love Productions is understood to have accused the BBC of “ripping off” the Bake Off format to create two new shows, involving the search for the nation’s leading amateur artist and hair stylist.

    While the BBC has tried to portray the loss of the baking show as a purely financial matter, a source at the corporation said that there had been a “total breakdown of trust” between the broadcaster and the production company, which made it “impossible” to agree a deal.

    It is understood that Love threatened to sue the corporation over Hair, a BBC Three programme released in early 2014 that was billed by the broadcaster as “a competition to find Britain’s best amateur hair stylist”, and was widely reported as being akin to a “Bake Off for hairdressing”. The corporation had agreed to a financial settlement with the production company, to prevent the case going to court.

    Barely a year later, the corporation was accused of attempting a similar move over the BBC One show, The Big Painting Challenge, presented by Richard Bacon and Una Stubbs. The broadcaster billed the programme as a “nationwide search for Britain’s best amateur artist”, which Love again complained bore all the hallmarks of its own baking show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/sue-perkins-and-mel-giedroyc-to-step-down-as-great-british-bake/

    Didn't SeanT once accuse them of nicking an idea he pitched to them?

    They - and anyone else - is free to steal any idea. There's no copyright on ideas.
    No but it is damn rudeness at the very leazt to use material you wrote, ring you up and email you questions about it and the general subject on numerous occasions and then neglect to mention you in the program credits.
    It's standard practice in business, though. You do what you can to win.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    I make it 30% Trump is ahead, 70% Clinton - though it could be underestimating Trump as he is closing the gap in polls with fieldwork less than 7 days out.


    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Skm9h4JuRxhr0zQnKSExnmMwFoZt-1hrGnDlotJ4Jd8/edit?usp=sharing
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,840
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    BigRich said:

    Looking at the table produced by Anthony Wells of the new constituencies, the LD are in second place in:

    10 Labour seats
    50 Conservatives seats

    Will this affect how they project themselves?

    So the LDs will be relying on many more tactical Labour votes than tactical Tory votes!
    Which is why the coalition was so electorally disastrous for them.
    Indeed so - and also why any attempt to win back such voters will be easily repulsed by Labour shouting 'You cannot trust the LibDems not to put the Tories in!'
    Yes. The difficulty is they don't want to put off those who genuinely do want them to keep their options open, but there's a lot more votes in promising never to work for the Tories, but that too won't be believed for some time I imagine. They don't want to be Labour lapdogs, but there's more votes in that, and Labour don't trust them to be lapdogs anyway.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Love Productions is understood to have accused the BBC of “ripping off” the Bake Off format to create two new shows, involving the search for the nation’s leading amateur artist and hair stylist.

    While the BBC has tried to portray the loss of the baking show as a purely financial matter, a source at the corporation said that there had been a “total breakdown of trust” between the broadcaster and the production company, which made it “impossible” to agree a deal.

    It is understood that Love threatened to sue the corporation over Hair, a BBC Three programme released in early 2014 that was billed by the broadcaster as “a competition to find Britain’s best amateur hair stylist”, and was widely reported as being akin to a “Bake Off for hairdressing”. The corporation had agreed to a financial settlement with the production company, to prevent the case going to court.

    Barely a year later, the corporation was accused of attempting a similar move over the BBC One show, The Big Painting Challenge, presented by Richard Bacon and Una Stubbs. The broadcaster billed the programme as a “nationwide search for Britain’s best amateur artist”, which Love again complained bore all the hallmarks of its own baking show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/sue-perkins-and-mel-giedroyc-to-step-down-as-great-british-bake/

    Didn't SeanT once accuse them of nicking an idea he pitched to them?

    They - and anyone else - is free to steal any idea. There's no copyright on ideas.
    And of course many ideas are so simple and generic that even if that formula truly was blatantly ripped off, it is very easy to claim it was independently thought of. There's nothing new under the sun.
    I would also point out that Top Chef is a reality TV show where people make food and one person is eliminated every week. TGBBO is just Top Chef with amateurs and only baking.

    Oh yeah, and Mel and Sue.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Love Productions is understood to have accused the BBC of “ripping off” the Bake Off format to create two new shows, involving the search for the nation’s leading amateur artist and hair stylist.

    While the BBC has tried to portray the loss of the baking show as a purely financial matter, a source at the corporation said that there had been a “total breakdown of trust” between the broadcaster and the production company, which made it “impossible” to agree a deal.

    It is understood that Love threatened to sue the corporation over Hair, a BBC Three programme released in early 2014 that was billed by the broadcaster as “a competition to find Britain’s best amateur hair stylist”, and was widely reported as being akin to a “Bake Off for hairdressing”. The corporation had agreed to a financial settlement with the production company, to prevent the case going to court.

    Barely a year later, the corporation was accused of attempting a similar move over the BBC One show, The Big Painting Challenge, presented by Richard Bacon and Una Stubbs. The broadcaster billed the programme as a “nationwide search for Britain’s best amateur artist”, which Love again complained bore all the hallmarks of its own baking show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/sue-perkins-and-mel-giedroyc-to-step-down-as-great-british-bake/

    Didn't SeanT once accuse them of nicking an idea he pitched to them?

    They - and anyone else - is free to steal any idea. There's no copyright on ideas.
    No but it is damn rudeness at the very leazt to use material you wrote, ring you up and email you questions about it and the general subject on numerous occasions and then neglect to mention you in the program credits.
    It's standard practice in business, though. You do what you can to win.
    Indeed - especially in what is broadly speaking showbusiness - it wouldnt have cost them anything though to stick my name on the credits - and all it has ensured is that any future requests will be met with Nyet, if there are ever any which to be fair is a big if.

    Their loss.

    Makes me glad I dont work in the industry though.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    rcs1000 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    BigRich said:

    Looking at the table produced by Anthony Wells of the new constituencies, the LD are in second place in:

    10 Labour seats
    50 Conservatives seats

    Will this affect how they project themselves?

    So the LDs will be relying on many more tactical Labour votes than tactical Tory votes!
    Which is why the coalition was so electorally disastrous for them.
    Indeed so - and also why any attempt to win back such voters will be easily repulsed by Labour shouting 'You cannot trust the LibDems not to put the Tories in!'
    While that will definitely be true for a portion of Labour voters, I don't think it's universally true. Furthermore, Jeremy Corbyn is probably not a vote magnet for Labour voters in seats like Twickenham.
    Perhaps true - though many former LibDems are now strong Corbyn supporters having deserted Labour in 2005 /2010 on account of Blair/Brown having been too rightwing. I suppose it is possible that professional middle class left of centre voters in Twickenham might be supportive of Corbyn.It seems to be more the traditional C2/D/E voters who reject him.
  • rcs1000 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    BigRich said:

    Looking at the table produced by Anthony Wells of the new constituencies, the LD are in second place in:

    10 Labour seats
    50 Conservatives seats

    Will this affect how they project themselves?

    So the LDs will be relying on many more tactical Labour votes than tactical Tory votes!
    Which is why the coalition was so electorally disastrous for them.
    Indeed so - and also why any attempt to win back such voters will be easily repulsed by Labour shouting 'You cannot trust the LibDems not to put the Tories in!'
    While that will definitely be true for a portion of Labour voters, I don't think it's universally true. Furthermore, Jeremy Corbyn is probably not a vote magnet for Labour voters in seats like Twickenham.
    Yes the libdems really ought to be winning back seats like twickenham and Yeovil in 2020
  • I'd think the natural people for the Lib Dems to go after are the "Blairites". People who are Very Liberal, Very pro-Europe, economically centrist.

    But I don't think anyone is listening to the Lib Dems at the moment, so it doesn't matter a great deal what they say.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    UKIP would need a 6.98% swing to win Chelmsley Wood & Solihull North.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    rcs1000 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    BigRich said:

    Looking at the table produced by Anthony Wells of the new constituencies, the LD are in second place in:

    10 Labour seats
    50 Conservatives seats

    Will this affect how they project themselves?

    So the LDs will be relying on many more tactical Labour votes than tactical Tory votes!
    Which is why the coalition was so electorally disastrous for them.
    Indeed so - and also why any attempt to win back such voters will be easily repulsed by Labour shouting 'You cannot trust the LibDems not to put the Tories in!'
    While that will definitely be true for a portion of Labour voters, I don't think it's universally true. Furthermore, Jeremy Corbyn is probably not a vote magnet for Labour voters in seats like Twickenham.
    Yes the libdems really ought to be winning back seats like twickenham and Yeovil in 2020
    Labour has actually performed quite strongly in Yeovil within living memory. In 1966 they were only just over 2000 votes from defeating John Peyton there.For that reason, Labour may wish to discourage tactical voting in such seats.
  • William_H said:

    I'd think the natural people for the Lib Dems to go after are the "Blairites". People who are Very Liberal, Very pro-Europe, economically centrist.

    But I don't think anyone is listening to the Lib Dems at the moment, so it doesn't matter a great deal what they say.

    The libdems really ought to be gaining ground given that Labour have gone mad and Theresa may has returned to Blue Toryism from Liberal Conservatism.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    Indeed - especially in what is broadly speaking showbusiness - it wouldnt have cost them anything though to stick my name on the credits - and all it has ensured is that any future requests will be met with Nyet, if there are ever any which to be fair is a big if.

    Their loss.

    Makes me glad I dont work in the industry though.

    Get paid up-front or at least have a contact setting out the duties on both sides. Twenty years ago myself and a chum came up with an idea for a TV series. He being a professional script writer had an agent. The agent pitched our idea to a TV company and came back with a contract to produce a one hour script for a pilot programme. We wrote it and we got paid (£12k from memory). For whatever reason the company never actually made the programme but some years later two different series based, loosely, on our idea did get made and did very well apparently. I didn't mind I had been paid for my work.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1. People looking for a credible PM who weren't put off Miliband, but would pick May over Corbyn
    2. Traditional WWC Labour voters who tolerated Miliband, but for whom Corbyn is the last straw, and who decide to stay at home or vote either Tory or Ukip
    3. People who are hard Left/like Corbyn, and therefore have no intention of ditching Labour
    4. Tribal/habit Labour voters who would never think of voting any other way, regardless of circumstances
    5. Lefties who don't think much of Labour, but have permanently abandoned the Lib Dems over the Coalition and would rather stay at home, or maybe vote Green

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Pulpstar said:

    I make it 30% Trump is ahead, 70% Clinton - though it could be underestimating Trump as he is closing the gap in polls with fieldwork less than 7 days out.


    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Skm9h4JuRxhr0zQnKSExnmMwFoZt-1hrGnDlotJ4Jd8/edit?usp=sharing

    I'm still confident about my average daily and weekly polls.

    It was the first that picked up the Trump recovery, then the Trump stall, and now it's picking up another Trump surge in the last few days.

    Today Hillary's lead shrunk to just above 1%, the second lowest that metric has ever shown.

    And there is another thing, although I rubbish Reuters polls, I always look at the internals by past election to see what percentage of Romney/Obama vote shifts, and the results are very interesting.

    Aggregated results for last 3 days per region:

    North (Great Lakes, N.England, Mid-Atlantic)

    Obama voters.
    Hillary 77%
    Trump 11%
    None 12%

    Romney voters.
    Trump 84%
    Hillary 2%
    None 14%

    South (S.East, S.West)

    Obama voters
    Hillary 75%
    Trump 14%
    None 11%

    Romney voters
    Trump 81%
    Hillary 4%
    None 15%

    West (Far West, Rocky Mt, Plains)

    Obama voters.
    Hillary 70%
    Trump 16%
    None 14%

    Romney voters
    Trump 74%
    Hillary 4%
    None 22%

    To sum up, Hillary gets as few Romney voters as Trump gets African-Americans, while a steady 10-15% of Obama voters go Trump, the NeverTrump's go 3rd party instead of Hillary.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Seems all is not well in EU27land:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/authoritarian-european-commission-created-brexit-and-could-destr/

    This is not to gloat, but to note that some movement - either forwards to more union, or backwards to a Europe of capitals - is required as the current status quo is unstable.


  • Indeed - especially in what is broadly speaking showbusiness - it wouldnt have cost them anything though to stick my name on the credits - and all it has ensured is that any future requests will be met with Nyet, if there are ever any which to be fair is a big if.

    Their loss.

    Makes me glad I dont work in the industry though.

    Get paid up-front or at least have a contact setting out the duties on both sides. Twenty years ago myself and a chum came up with an idea for a TV series. He being a professional script writer had an agent. The agent pitched our idea to a TV company and came back with a contract to produce a one hour script for a pilot programme. We wrote it and we got paid (£12k from memory). For whatever reason the company never actually made the programme but some years later two different series based, loosely, on our idea did get made and did very well apparently. I didn't mind I had been paid for my work.
    Indeed, if it was my living that would be essential.

    This was a fairly obscure subject which would never have seen the light of day on a commercial station in which I was happy to help - but a bit pissed off that they didnt acknowledge it.

    The presenter of the show who then wrote a book on the subject - which I also provided said material for - did give generous acknowledgement in his book as well as a signed copy.

    I would happily assist him again - thats the difference good manners makes.

    The beeb researcher did buy me a cup of tea though when I met her in London to discuss it, so perhaps I should just know my place, tug my forelock and be grateful :D
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930

    William_H said:

    I'd think the natural people for the Lib Dems to go after are the "Blairites". People who are Very Liberal, Very pro-Europe, economically centrist.

    But I don't think anyone is listening to the Lib Dems at the moment, so it doesn't matter a great deal what they say.

    The libdems really ought to be gaining ground given that Labour have gone mad and Theresa may has returned to Blue Toryism from Liberal Conservatism.
    They gained a meaningful amount of ground at the locals this year, and they gained two seats at Holyrood (both of which they won quite well, and which bode well for 2020 in Scotland - in those two seats at least!).

    But Farron is a poor leader. Hectoring and shrill when he's on TV. And just now he's invisible. They must be regretting not picking Lamb now.
  • MTimT said:

    Seems all is not well in EU27land:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/authoritarian-european-commission-created-brexit-and-could-destr/

    This is not to gloat, but to note that some movement - either forwards to more union, or backwards to a Europe of capitals - is required as the current status quo is unstable.

    Not for the first time will the people of the UK saved Europe from an unpleasant authoritarian construct.....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1. People looking for a credible PM who weren't put off Miliband, but would pick May over Corbyn
    2. Traditional WWC Labour voters who tolerated Miliband, but for whom Corbyn is the last straw, and who decide to stay at home or vote either Tory or Ukip
    3. People who are hard Left/like Corbyn, and therefore have no intention of ditching Labour
    4. Tribal/habit Labour voters who would never think of voting any other way, regardless of circumstances
    5. Lefties who don't think much of Labour, but have permanently abandoned the Lib Dems over the Coalition and would rather stay at home, or maybe vote Green

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
    If John Pugh is the LibDem candidate, I think they'd stand a chance.

    But he's 68 right now and will be 71 in 2020. I suspect he'll step down, and I suspect it'll be a comfortable Conservative hold. Without Pugh, the LibDems may drop to third or fourth.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Love Productions is understood to have accused the BBC of “ripping off” the Bake Off format to create two new shows, involving the search for the nation’s leading amateur artist and hair stylist.

    While the BBC has tried to portray the loss of the baking show as a purely financial matter, a source at the corporation said that there had been a “total breakdown of trust” between the broadcaster and the production company, which made it “impossible” to agree a deal.

    It is understood that Love threatened to sue the corporation over Hair, a BBC Three programme released in early 2014 that was billed by the broadcaster as “a competition to find Britain’s best amateur hair stylist”, and was widely reported as being akin to a “Bake Off for hairdressing”. The corporation had agreed to a financial settlement with the production company, to prevent the case going to court.

    Barely a year later, the corporation was accused of attempting a similar move over the BBC One show, The Big Painting Challenge, presented by Richard Bacon and Una Stubbs. The broadcaster billed the programme as a “nationwide search for Britain’s best amateur artist”, which Love again complained bore all the hallmarks of its own baking show.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/sue-perkins-and-mel-giedroyc-to-step-down-as-great-british-bake/

    Didn't SeanT once accuse them of nicking an idea he pitched to them?

    They - and anyone else - is free to steal any idea. There's no copyright on ideas.
    No but it is damn rudeness at the very leazt to use material you wrote, ring you up and email you questions about it and the general subject on numerous occasions and then neglect to mention you in the program credits.
    It's standard practice in business, though. You do what you can to win.
    Indeed - especially in what is broadly speaking showbusiness - it wouldnt have cost them anything though to stick my name on the credits - and all it has ensured is that any future requests will be met with Nyet, if there are ever any which to be fair is a big if.

    Their loss.

    Makes me glad I dont work in the industry though.
    The area of business I know best is synthetic biology/genetic engineering. Stealing ideas in this field is a very bad idea. Virtually all big ideas in the field are so big they need collaboration. Stealing ideas is an effective way to shut yourself out completely.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Looks like Celtic have taken 'a proper hiding'
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1. People looking for a credible PM who weren't put off Miliband, but would pick May over Corbyn
    2. Traditional WWC Labour voters who tolerated Miliband, but for whom Corbyn is the last straw, and who decide to stay at home or vote either Tory or Ukip
    3. People who are hard Left/like Corbyn, and therefore have no intention of ditching Labour
    4. Tribal/habit Labour voters who would never think of voting any other way, regardless of circumstances
    5. Lefties who don't think much of Labour, but have permanently abandoned the Lib Dems over the Coalition and would rather stay at home, or maybe vote Green

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
    If John Pugh is the LibDem candidate, I think they'd stand a chance.

    But he's 68 right now and will be 71 in 2020. I suspect he'll step down, and I suspect it'll be a comfortable Conservative hold. Without Pugh, the LibDems may drop to third or fourth.
    Southport looks like ground zero in the next election, 4 parties within 8000 votes, they will bury the place in leaflets.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    MTimT said:

    Seems all is not well in EU27land:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/authoritarian-european-commission-created-brexit-and-could-destr/

    This is not to gloat, but to note that some movement - either forwards to more union, or backwards to a Europe of capitals - is required as the current status quo is unstable.

    The best and most proper thing is to abolish the commission and relegate it's responsibilities to the council of ministers.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    William_H said:

    I'd think the natural people for the Lib Dems to go after are the "Blairites". People who are Very Liberal, Very pro-Europe, economically centrist.

    But I don't think anyone is listening to the Lib Dems at the moment, so it doesn't matter a great deal what they say.

    The libdems really ought to be gaining ground given that Labour have gone mad and Theresa may has returned to Blue Toryism from Liberal Conservatism.
    The Lib Dems' best hope of a modest revival lay in going after the Yellow Tory, soft centre-right vote. Problem is, the Orange Book tendency were discredited by the Coalition and the party membership swung leftwards, where they have found... nothing. The middle-class left-liberals have predominantly fallen for Corbyn, and those who deserted the LDs for Labour and the Greens whilst the ink on the Coalition Agreement was still wet show no signs of ever being interested in coming back.

    The majority of the electorate is positioned to the Right of Farron, and the progressives and socialists are mostly clustering around Labour right now. There is very little space left in the political market for a party peddling a combination of Europhilia, social liberalism, and wet centrism on tax and welfare. That's why the LDs are stuck on their core vote and have shown, generally speaking, little sign of improvement for many years.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2016
    Labour will need to win West Bridgford in order to win an overall majority in 2020. Notional Tory majority is 14.6%.

    West Bridgford is the main town in Ken Clarke's Rushcliffe constituency which has been held by him since 1970.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    With regards to Cameron, am I mistaken in thinking that here was polling showing people were more likely to vote No if they thought he would stay on as Prime Minister in he event of a No Vote?
  • AndyJS said:

    Labour will need to win West Bridgford in order to win an overall majority in 2020. Notional Tory majority is 14.6%.

    West Bridgford is the main town in Ken Clarke's Rushcliffe constituency which has been held by him since 1970.

    The thing to remember is that in a decade or so it could happen (if they come to their senses).

    The tories were seen as in a similarly terminal situation in the early years of this millenium
  • Goodnight all, on this incredibly hot September evening.

    I wonder if the hottest day of the year has ever been in September before?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Labour will need to win West Bridgford in order to win an overall majority in 2020. Notional Tory majority is 14.6%.

    West Bridgford is the main town in Ken Clarke's Rushcliffe constituency which has been held by him since 1970.

    The thing to remember is that in a decade or so it could happen (if they come to their senses).

    The tories were seen as in a similarly terminal situation in the early years of this millenium
    It could happen but not with Corbyn as leader.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    AndyJS said:

    Labour will need to win West Bridgford in order to win an overall majority in 2020. Notional Tory majority is 14.6%.

    West Bridgford is the main town in Ken Clarke's Rushcliffe constituency which has been held by him since 1970.

    14.6% notional majority.

    So a 7.3% swing then, that would be a reversal of the 38-31 result from 2015.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1. People looking for a credible PM who weren't put off Miliband, but would pick May over Corbyn
    2. Traditional WWC Labour voters who tolerated Miliband, but for whom Corbyn is the last straw, and who decide to stay at home or vote either Tory or Ukip
    3. People who are hard Left/like Corbyn, and therefore have no intention of ditching Labour
    4. Tribal/habit Labour voters who would never think of voting any other way, regardless of circumstances
    5. Lefties who don't think much of Labour, but have permanently abandoned the Lib Dems over the Coalition and would rather stay at home, or maybe vote Green

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
    If John Pugh is the LibDem candidate, I think they'd stand a chance.

    But he's 68 right now and will be 71 in 2020. I suspect he'll step down, and I suspect it'll be a comfortable Conservative hold. Without Pugh, the LibDems may drop to third or fourth.
    Southport looks like ground zero in the next election, 4 parties within 8000 votes, they will bury the place in leaflets.
    Four way marginals will be the LDs (and UKIP's) best hope for gains, because the winning vote share is likely to be relatively low.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Seats that Labour will need to win at the next election for an overall majority include:

    Portsmouth South
    Hillingdon & Uxbridge
    Canterbury & Faversham
    Eddisbury & Northwich
    Shipley
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    What's the swing needed for the Tories to lose their majority under the proposed boundaries?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Labour will need to win West Bridgford in order to win an overall majority in 2020. Notional Tory majority is 14.6%.

    West Bridgford is the main town in Ken Clarke's Rushcliffe constituency which has been held by him since 1970.

    14.6% notional majority.

    So a 7.3% swing then, that would be a reversal of the 38-31 result from 2015.
    It would be the equivalent of a Labour lead of 8%. If Labour were to recover in Scotland the lead and swing required would fall back.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Labour will need to win West Bridgford in order to win an overall majority in 2020. Notional Tory majority is 14.6%.

    West Bridgford is the main town in Ken Clarke's Rushcliffe constituency which has been held by him since 1970.

    14.6% notional majority.

    So a 7.3% swing then, that would be a reversal of the 38-31 result from 2015.
    Is that actually a LOWER swing than was needed under the current boundaries?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Down to the right, "Cameron aided Isil in Libya":
    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/775801841523326976
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Danny565 said:

    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Labour will need to win West Bridgford in order to win an overall majority in 2020. Notional Tory majority is 14.6%.

    West Bridgford is the main town in Ken Clarke's Rushcliffe constituency which has been held by him since 1970.

    14.6% notional majority.

    So a 7.3% swing then, that would be a reversal of the 38-31 result from 2015.
    Is that actually a LOWER swing than was needed under the current boundaries?
    It's a new seat. The old seat was Rushcliffe but that's been divided between West Bridgford and Loughborough & Rushcliffe South. Therefore West Bridgford is easier for Labour to win than Rushcliffe was. It also includes some wards from Nottingham South.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930

    William_H said:

    I'd think the natural people for the Lib Dems to go after are the "Blairites". People who are Very Liberal, Very pro-Europe, economically centrist.

    But I don't think anyone is listening to the Lib Dems at the moment, so it doesn't matter a great deal what they say.

    The libdems really ought to be gaining ground given that Labour have gone mad and Theresa may has returned to Blue Toryism from Liberal Conservatism.
    The Lib Dems' best hope of a modest revival lay in going after the Yellow Tory, soft centre-right vote. Problem is, the Orange Book tendency were discredited by the Coalition and the party membership swung leftwards, where they have found... nothing. The middle-class left-liberals have predominantly fallen for Corbyn, and those who deserted the LDs for Labour and the Greens whilst the ink on the Coalition Agreement was still wet show no signs of ever being interested in coming back.

    The majority of the electorate is positioned to the Right of Farron, and the progressives and socialists are mostly clustering around Labour right now. There is very little space left in the political market for a party peddling a combination of Europhilia, social liberalism, and wet centrism on tax and welfare. That's why the LDs are stuck on their core vote and have shown, generally speaking, little sign of improvement for many years.
    No one is suggesting the LibDems are going to get 15+% of the vote, or 60 seats, any time soon.

    The question is: can they stage a modest recovery in 2020?

    And your suggestion that they go the FDP route would make a lot of sense (it fits with my own views, for instance), except for the fact that that market is even smaller. The FDP, in a country with proportional representation, failed to clear the 5% hurdle last time around, and gets only 7% in current polls.

    Really, the question is: can the LibDems get a few of the 48%, plus a few people who like their local MP, plus a few tactical votes, plus a few people who believe strongly in the legalisation of cannabis?

    And I would suggest that yes they probably will. It will net them, as you've noted, 2-3 seats in West London, a couple of Scottish seats, Cambridge, and a few other places. And that will be about it.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1. People looking for a credible PM who weren't put off Miliband, but would pick May over Corbyn
    2. Traditional WWC Labour voters who tolerated Miliband, but for whom Corbyn is the last straw, and who decide to stay at home or vote either Tory or Ukip
    3. People who are hard Left/like Corbyn, and therefore have no intention of ditching Labour
    4. Tribal/habit Labour voters who would never think of voting any other way, regardless of circumstances
    5. Lefties who don't think much of Labour, but have permanently abandoned the Lib Dems over the Coalition and would rather stay at home, or maybe vote Green

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
    If John Pugh is the LibDem candidate, I think they'd stand a chance.

    But he's 68 right now and will be 71 in 2020. I suspect he'll step down, and I suspect it'll be a comfortable Conservative hold. Without Pugh, the LibDems may drop to third or fourth.
    Southport looks like ground zero in the next election, 4 parties within 8000 votes, they will bury the place in leaflets.
    Four way marginals will be the LDs (and UKIP's) best hope for gains, because the winning vote share is likely to be relatively low.
    I agree with rcs1000 about Pugh retiring. Looks to be a nailed on LD loss.

    Norman Lamb maybe another retirement. 62 in 2020.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Speedy said:

    What's the swing needed for the Tories to lose their majority under the proposed boundaries?

    I think it's around 2.2%.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    AndyJS said:

    Danny565 said:

    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Labour will need to win West Bridgford in order to win an overall majority in 2020. Notional Tory majority is 14.6%.

    West Bridgford is the main town in Ken Clarke's Rushcliffe constituency which has been held by him since 1970.

    14.6% notional majority.

    So a 7.3% swing then, that would be a reversal of the 38-31 result from 2015.
    Is that actually a LOWER swing than was needed under the current boundaries?
    It's a new seat. The old seat was Rushcliffe but that's been divided between West Bridgford and Loughborough & Rushcliffe South. Therefore West Bridgford is easier for Labour to win than Rushcliffe was. It also includes some wards from Nottingham South.
    I understand that, but I meant in general to get a majority -- I thought under the current boundaries that Labour would need a more than 10% lead for a majority, rather than "just" a 7% lead that would apparently be required under the new ones.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,840
    edited September 2016

    William_H said:

    I'd think the natural people for the Lib Dems to go after are the "Blairites". People who are Very Liberal, Very pro-Europe, economically centrist.

    But I don't think anyone is listening to the Lib Dems at the moment, so it doesn't matter a great deal what they say.

    The libdems really ought to be gaining ground given that Labour have gone mad and Theresa may has returned to Blue Toryism from Liberal Conservatism.
    The Lib Dems' best hope of a modest revival lay in going after the Yellow Tory, soft centre-right vote. Problem is, the Orange Book tendency were discredited by the Coalition and the party membership swung leftwards, where they have found... nothing. The middle-class left-liberals have predominantly fallen for Corbyn, and those who deserted the LDs for Labour and the Greens whilst the ink on the Coalition Agreement was still wet show no signs of ever being interested in coming back.

    The majority of the electorate is positioned to the Right of Farron, and the progressives and socialists are mostly clustering around Labour right now. There is very little space left in the political market for a party peddling a combination of Europhilia, social liberalism, and wet centrism on tax and welfare. That's why the LDs are stuck on their core vote and have shown, generally speaking, little sign of improvement for many years.
    Good post. It's a long hard road back for them.

    It feels weird sometimes, as I live in a place where if you are anti-Tory you vote LD, Labour don't get a look in, but most places are very much not like that, to put it mildly.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1. People looking for a credible PM who weren't put off Miliband, but would pick May over Corbyn
    2. Traditional WWC Labour voters who tolerated Miliband, but for whom Corbyn is the last straw, and who decide to stay at home or vote either Tory or Ukip
    3. People who are hard Left/like Corbyn, and therefore have no intention of ditching Labour
    4. Tribal/habit Labour voters who would never think of voting any other way, regardless of circumstances
    5. Lefties who don't think much of Labour, but have permanently abandoned the Lib Dems over the Coalition and would rather stay at home, or maybe vote Green

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
    If John Pugh is the LibDem candidate, I think they'd stand a chance.

    But he's 68 right now and will be 71 in 2020. I suspect he'll step down, and I suspect it'll be a comfortable Conservative hold. Without Pugh, the LibDems may drop to third or fourth.
    This is part of the reason why my view of the LDs prospects in the next GE is so pessimistic: the additional difficulty they have in challenging without the incumbency advantage. Your assessment of Southport seems sound, but also what about Clegg in Sheffield Hallam - up against a notional Labour majority of 4,000 and doubtless a very determined campaign to finish him off this time, do you think he'll have the fight left in him?

    If they can't make any gains then that would leave them down to their last six seats: four remaining notional majorities, plus Brake and Mulholland incumbent in close marginals.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,840
    edited September 2016
    Speedy said:

    Down to the right, "Cameron aided Isil in Libya":
    htps://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/775801841523326976

    If that story has any merit it should not be tucked in the corner like that.
  • Speedy said:

    Down to the right, "Cameron aided Isil in Libya":
    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/775801841523326976

    Another correct decision by Theresa May
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Goodnight all, on this incredibly hot September evening.

    I wonder if the hottest day of the year has ever been in September before?

    Good question. In 1906 and 1911 (both of which had hotter September dates than today) I suspect September commanded the hottest day of the year. Unusual, but not unprecedented, I don't think.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    It looks like Labour would need a 10% swing to win an overall majority if the targets are restricted to England and Wales. Not sure what's going to happen in Scotland as far as boundary changes are concerned.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kle4 said:

    Good post. It's a long hard road back for them.

    It feels weird sometimes, as I live in a place where if you are anti-Tory you vote LD, Labour don't get a look in, but most places are very much not like that, to put it mildly.

    Indeed. They were so badly battered during the last Parliament that they lost a huge proportion of second places to Labour or Ukip. In my own neck of the woods (a Tory heartland seat) they fell from a distant but creditable second in 2010 to a puny fourth (and only about a thousand votes clear of the Green) in 2015. Such calamities were, of course, typical.

    One of the excuses I've actually heard given by Labourites crying foul over the boundary changes is that they're unfair because it takes so many more voters already to elect a Labour MP than a Tory one, but that situation was reversed prior to the last election. The Lib Dem collapse was so dramatic that Labour found itself weighing great bundles of leftist minority votes in places, all over the South in particular, where it had previously been nowhere. You can kind of understand why the LDs would be so keen to try to win those sorts of voters back, and why they might think that the rise of Corbyn would give them a fair chance of success, but evidence to date suggests that they are (probably) on a hiding to nothing.

    It would appear that middle-class, middle-income lefties find a dose of radicalism quite intoxicating - especially when they secretly know that they and their bank balances are quite safe from it, given that Labour has little realistic prospect of beating those nasty Tories for a long, long time.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    AndyJS said:

    Speedy said:

    What's the swing needed for the Tories to lose their majority under the proposed boundaries?

    I think it's around 2.2%.
    So in retrospect, the new boundaries simply reduce the chances of a hung parliament by a bit, since it also reduces the swing Labour needs for a majority.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Jobabob said:

    Goodnight all, on this incredibly hot September evening.

    I wonder if the hottest day of the year has ever been in September before?

    Good question. In 1906 and 1911 (both of which had hotter September dates than today) I suspect September commanded the hottest day of the year. Unusual, but not unprecedented, I don't think.
    Actually 1991 was the last time.
  • On Guardian TV, Labour MPs crapping it the Maomentum is coming to deselect them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1. People looking for a credible PM who weren't put off Miliband, but would pick May over Corbyn
    2. Traditional WWC Labour voters who tolerated Miliband, but for whom Corbyn is the last straw, and who decide to stay at home or vote either Tory or Ukip
    3. People who are hard Left/like Corbyn, and therefore have no intention of ditching Labour
    4. Tribal/habit Labour voters who would never think of voting any other way, regardless of circumstances
    5. Lefties who don't think much of Labour, but have permanently abandoned the Lib Dems over the Coalition and would rather stay at home, or maybe vote Green

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
    If John Pugh is the LibDem candidate, I think they'd stand a chance.

    But he's 68 right now and will be 71 in 2020. I suspect he'll step down, and I suspect it'll be a comfortable Conservative hold. Without Pugh, the LibDems may drop to third or fourth.
    This is part of the reason why my view of the LDs prospects in the next GE is so pessimistic: the additional difficulty they have in challenging without the incumbency advantage. Your assessment of Southport seems sound, but also what about Clegg in Sheffield Hallam - up against a notional Labour majority of 4,000 and doubtless a very determined campaign to finish him off this time, do you think he'll have the fight left in him?

    If they can't make any gains then that would leave them down to their last six seats: four remaining notional majorities, plus Brake and Mulholland incumbent in close marginals.
    OK. I think the LibDems will get about 12% in 2020, up from 8% last time.

    I think they'll win:

    * 2-3 seats in South West London, where there were big Remain votes.
    * Cambridge, where the seat has become rather less Labour friendly.
    * Edinburgh West and North East Fife, where they comfortably gained the Holyrood seats from the SNP.

    Then probably four to six of their existing seats, and maybe a couple elsewhere which gets to my 10-14 seats forecast.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,423
    In principle, subsequent polls should reflect postal votes already in the bag. ie how will you vote or how did you vote? Assuming the measured swing to Remain over the last couple of weeks is accurate, it suggests the polls underestimated Leave all along.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,840
    edited September 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1.

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
    If John Pugh is the LibDem candidate, I think they'd stand a chance.

    But he's 68 right now and will be 71 in 2020. I suspect he'll step down, and I suspect it'll be a comfortable Conservative hold. Without Pugh, the LibDems may drop to third or fourth.
    This is part of the reason why my view of the LDs prospects in the next GE is so pessimistic: the additional difficulty they have in challenging without the incumbency advantage. Your assessment of Southport seems sound, but also what about Clegg in Sheffield Hallam - up against a notional Labour majority of 4,000 and doubtless a very determined campaign to finish him off this time, do you think he'll have the fight left in him?

    If they can't make any gains then that would leave them down to their last six seats: four remaining notional majorities, plus Brake and Mulholland incumbent in close marginals.
    OK. I think the LibDems will get about 12% in 2020, up from 8% last time.

    I think they'll win:

    * 2-3 seats in South West London, where there were big Remain votes.
    * Cambridge, where the seat has become rather less Labour friendly.
    * Edinburgh West and North East Fife, where they comfortably gained the Holyrood seats from the SNP.

    Then probably four to six of their existing seats, and maybe a couple elsewhere which gets to my 10-14 seats forecast.
    Well, my recollection is you called their 2015 performance better than most, so everyone listen to rcs!

    I'm quite interested in my proposed parliamentary seat in the review, as it includes several LD inclined areas that made up part of a LD seat lost in 2015, and divests itself of quite a bit of prime Tory rural heartland. I doubt it would make it competitive for the LDs, but I can see the notional Tory majority being quite a bit less than now.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1. People looking for a credible PM who weren't put off Miliband, but would pick May over Corbyn
    2. Traditional WWC Labour voters who tolerated Miliband, but for whom Corbyn is the last straw, and who decide to stay at home or vote either Tory or Ukip
    3. People who are hard Left/like Corbyn, and therefore have no intention of ditching Labour
    4. Tribal/habit Labour voters who would never think of voting any other way, regardless of circumstances
    5. Lefties who don't think much of Labour, but have permanently abandoned the Lib Dems over the Coalition and would rather stay at home, or maybe vote Green

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
    If John Pugh is the LibDem candidate, I think they'd stand a chance.

    But he's 68 right now and will be 71 in 2020. I suspect he'll step down, and I suspect it'll be a comfortable Conservative hold. Without Pugh, the LibDems may drop to third or fourth.
    Southport looks like ground zero in the next election, 4 parties within 8000 votes, they will bury the place in leaflets.
    Four way marginals will be the LDs (and UKIP's) best hope for gains, because the winning vote share is likely to be relatively low.
    I agree with rcs1000 about Pugh retiring. Looks to be a nailed on LD loss.

    Norman Lamb maybe another retirement. 62 in 2020.
    I think Lamb will stick around; I think being a LibDem MP is his life.

    If Mark Williams, the MP for Ceredgion, were to step down (which I think is probable/possible), then I think Ceredgion and North Pembrokshire would likely fall to Plaid/Con.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    rcs1000 said:



    OK. I think the LibDems will get about 12% in 2020, up from 8% last time.

    I think they'll win:

    * 2-3 seats in South West London, where there were big Remain votes.
    * Cambridge, where the seat has become rather less Labour friendly.
    * Edinburgh West and North East Fife, where they comfortably gained the Holyrood seats from the SNP.

    I agree with most of those, but odds are surely against them in Cambridge - Labour notionally won the seat by about 20% in the local elections this year.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1.

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
    If John Pugh is the LibDem candidate, I think they'd stand a chance.

    But he's 68 right now and will be 71 in 2020. I suspect he'll step down, and I suspect it'll be a comfortable Conservative hold. Without Pugh, the LibDems may drop to third or fourth.
    This is part of the reason why my view of the LDs prospects in the next GE is so pessimistic: the additional difficulty they have in challenging without the incumbency advantage. Your assessment of Southport seems sound, but also what about Clegg in Sheffield Hallam - up against a notional Labour majority of 4,000 and doubtless a very determined campaign to finish him off this time, do you think he'll have the fight left in him?

    If they can't make any gains then that would leave them down to their last six seats: four remaining notional majorities, plus Brake and Mulholland incumbent in close marginals.
    OK. I think the LibDems will get about 12% in 2020, up from 8% last time.

    I think they'll win:

    * 2-3 seats in South West London, where there were big Remain votes.
    * Cambridge, where the seat has become rather less Labour friendly.
    * Edinburgh West and North East Fife, where they comfortably gained the Holyrood seats from the SNP.

    Then probably four to six of their existing seats, and maybe a couple elsewhere which gets to my 10-14 seats forecast.
    Well, my recollection is you called their 2015 performance better than most, so everyone listen to rcs!

    I'm quite interested in my proposed parliamentary seat in the review, as it includes several LD inclined areas that made up part of a LD seat lost in 2015, and divests itself of quite a bit of prime Tory rural heartland. I doubt it would make it competitive for the LDs, but I can see the notional Tory majority being quite a bit less than now.
    I was by far the most bearish person on here, and I still wasn't bearish enough. (My friend in Cambridge Labour kept assuring me that they were going to get creamed by Julian Huppert!)
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016
    AndyJS said:

    It looks like Labour would need a 10% swing to win an overall majority if the targets are restricted to England and Wales. Not sure what's going to happen in Scotland as far as boundary changes are concerned.

    I counted 122 Tory constituencies with victory margins of less than 20%.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15YjlKdqKFETupccZOYV19bIe75QlpnHUyzS9CZqFHO8/edit#gid=0
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1.

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
    If John Pugh is the LibDem candidate, I think they'd stand a chance.

    But he's 68 right now and will be 71 in 2020. I suspect he'll step down, and I suspect it'll be a comfortable Conservative hold. Without Pugh, the LibDems may drop to third or fourth.
    This is part of the reason why my view of the LDs prospects in the next GE is so pessimistic: the additional difficulty they have in challenging without the incumbency advantage. Your assessment of Southport seems sound, but also what about Clegg in Sheffield Hallam - up against a notional Labour majority of 4,000 and doubtless a very determined campaign to finish him off this time, do you think he'll have the fight left in him?

    If they can't make any gains then that would leave them down to their last six seats: four remaining notional majorities, plus Brake and Mulholland incumbent in close marginals.
    OK. I think the LibDems will get about 12% in 2020, up from 8% last time.

    I think they'll win:

    * 2-3 seats in South West London, where there were big Remain votes.
    * Cambridge, where the seat has become rather less Labour friendly.
    * Edinburgh West and North East Fife, where they comfortably gained the Holyrood seats from the SNP.

    Then probably four to six of their existing seats, and maybe a couple elsewhere which gets to my 10-14 seats forecast.
    Well, my recollection is you called their 2015 performance better than most, so everyone listen to rcs!

    I'm quite interested in my proposed parliamentary seat in the review, as it includes several LD inclined areas that made up part of a LD seat lost in 2015, and divests itself of quite a bit of prime Tory rural heartland. I doubt it would make it competitive for the LDs, but I can see the notional Tory majority being quite a bit less than now.
    As an aside, I would also point out that I called the Euros exactly correctly for the LibDems, and was too pessimistic (although I was the most optimistic person on the site!) about their prospects in the Holyrood elections this year.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    AndyJS said:

    It looks like Labour would need a 10% swing to win an overall majority if the targets are restricted to England and Wales. Not sure what's going to happen in Scotland as far as boundary changes are concerned.

    Given how overwhelmingly dominant the SNP are, I doubt that the boundary changes will make much difference to anything (though FWIW I understand that Scotland is losing six seats.)

    The Fabians published a leaflet soon after the election, which would've been informed by the abandoned 2013 review that generated results not too radically different from the current proposals. They calculated that - after boundary change - the following swings would produce a Labour majority of 1:

    (a) uniform swing of 9.5% across Great Britain, implying a UK vote share of 40%
    (b) in the event of a modest recovery in Scotland, a swing of 8.7% in E&W, implying a UK vote share of 39%
    (c) if no recovery in Scotland, a swing of 11.4% in E&W, implying a UK vote share of 42%

    An anti-Tory coalition with a majority of 1 could be produced if Labour reached between 36-38%, depending on whether or not the Lib Dems were to achieve a modest recovery and take some seats back off the Tories down South.

    I stand to be corrected by events, but I think that Corbyn Labour will have to perform almost incredibly well (and May's Tories correspondingly awfully) just to make 30%. 36% looks like cloud cuckoo land.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2016
    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    It looks like Labour would need a 10% swing to win an overall majority if the targets are restricted to England and Wales. Not sure what's going to happen in Scotland as far as boundary changes are concerned.

    I counted 122 Tory constituencies with victory margins of less than 20%.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15YjlKdqKFETupccZOYV19bIe75QlpnHUyzS9CZqFHO8/edit#gid=0
    About 24 of them are not vulnerable to Labour with swings of less than 10%.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    There is a rumour that Hillary Clinton's medical records are going to get released in the next 24-28 hours and not by Clinton campaign.

    Guess which fantastic organ apparently has them....

    On another note, in Europe there is what can be best described as a hell of a lot of terror and anti-terror activity. IS inspired/directed bods are getting compromised and IS knows it so its desperately trying to get its operatives to act.

    So far ain't working out to well but they will get a shot in and don't forget Al Qaeda either, especially around these parts. They'd really like to get a hit in.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930
    edited September 2016
    Danny565 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    OK. I think the LibDems will get about 12% in 2020, up from 8% last time.

    I think they'll win:

    * 2-3 seats in South West London, where there were big Remain votes.
    * Cambridge, where the seat has become rather less Labour friendly.
    * Edinburgh West and North East Fife, where they comfortably gained the Holyrood seats from the SNP.

    I agree with most of those, but odds are surely against them in Cambridge - Labour notionally won the seat by about 20% in the local elections this year.
    Fortunately Cambridge has local elections almost every year, so we'll get a sense of momentum over the next few years. I'd point out that it gains Queen Edith's and Milton, which is not good news for Labour. I'd also suggest that existence of Corbyn as leader of the Labour party makes it more likely that Tories will tactically vote LibDem.

    From what I hear from my (totally unreliable) friend in Cambridge Labour that Zeichner is not popular with the rank and file. But then again, my friend totally called 2015 wrong, so I'd treat his views with caution.
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    Wasn't there a poll just before referendum carried out at ten thousand atm machines that got the result almost spot on ? Maybe that's the way of the future for better sampling
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Newsnight: atleast one Tory minister has vowed not to vote for the boundary changes ("pencilled in a bout of flu for the day of the vote").
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Labour targets in England and Wales using UKPR/Anthony Wells notionals:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10EJPl37xhc_B_TkHObNrahfzZBCFU4TW8MM_QB3PaXE/edit#gid=0
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Danny565 said:

    Newsnight: atleast one Tory minister has vowed not to vote for the boundary changes ("pencilled in a bout of flu for the day of the vote").

    Lol the reporter just said "I'm fucked".
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    kjohnw said:

    Wasn't there a poll just before referendum carried out at ten thousand atm machines that got the result almost spot on ? Maybe that's the way of the future for better sampling

    Yes it said 52-48 for Leave which was spot on.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016
    AndyJS said:

    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    It looks like Labour would need a 10% swing to win an overall majority if the targets are restricted to England and Wales. Not sure what's going to happen in Scotland as far as boundary changes are concerned.

    I counted 122 Tory constituencies with victory margins of less than 20%.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15YjlKdqKFETupccZOYV19bIe75QlpnHUyzS9CZqFHO8/edit#gid=0
    About 24 of them are not vulnerable to Labour with swings of less than 10%.
    I agree, only 29 Tory seats have majorities less than the Conservative victory margin in the last election.

    The new boundaries seem to have shifted the field by 4% to the Tories.
  • Do they ever have politicians interviewed live on newsnight anymore?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    nunu said:

    kjohnw said:

    Wasn't there a poll just before referendum carried out at ten thousand atm machines that got the result almost spot on ? Maybe that's the way of the future for better sampling

    Yes it said 52-48 for Leave which was spot on.
    Can you remember who commissioned the poll?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Y0kel said:

    There is a rumour that Hillary Clinton's medical records are going to get released in the next 24-28 hours and not by Clinton campaign.

    Guess which fantastic organ apparently has them....

    On another note, in Europe there is what can be best described as a hell of a lot of terror and anti-terror activity. IS inspired/directed bods are getting compromised and IS knows it so its desperately trying to get its operatives to act.

    So far ain't working out to well but they will get a shot in and don't forget Al Qaeda either, especially around these parts. They'd really like to get a hit in.

    There's another Gufficer data dump just now according to Wikileaks
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1.

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
    If John Pugh is the LibDem candidate, I think they'd stand a chance.

    But he's 68 right now and will be 71 in 2020. I suspect he'll step down, and I suspect it'll be a comfortable Conservative hold. Without Pugh, the LibDems may drop to third or fourth.
    This is part of the reason why my view of the LDs prospects in the next GE is so pessimistic: the additional difficulty they have in challenging without the incumbency advantage. Your assessment of Southport seems sound, but also what about Clegg in Sheffield Hallam - up against a notional Labour majority of 4,000 and doubtless a very determined campaign to finish him off this time, do you think he'll have the fight left in him?

    If they can't make any gains then that would leave them down to their last six seats: four remaining notional majorities, plus Brake and Mulholland incumbent in close marginals.
    OK. I think the LibDems will get about 12% in 2020, up from 8% last time.

    I think they'll win:

    * 2-3 seats in South West London, where there were big Remain votes.
    * Cambridge, where the seat has become rather less Labour friendly.
    * Edinburgh West and North East Fife, where they comfortably gained the Holyrood seats from the SNP.

    Then probably four to six of their existing seats, and maybe a couple elsewhere which gets to my 10-14 seats forecast.
    Well, my recollection is you called their 2015 performance better than most, so everyone listen to rcs!

    I'm quite interested in my proposed parliamentary seat in the review, as it includes several LD inclined areas that made up part of a LD seat lost in 2015, and divests itself of quite a bit of prime Tory rural heartland. I doubt it would make it competitive for the LDs, but I can see the notional Tory majority being quite a bit less than now.
    He lost money on betting they would at least 12 seats, I bet no one thought he would lose that bet.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930
    edited September 2016
    nunu said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Bit of a shock — the new Southport seat would have voted as follows:

    Con: 16,575
    LD: 13,730
    Lab: 10,300
    UKIP: 8,593
    Green: 1,230
    Others: 992

    It takes the following wards from South Ribble: Hesketh-with-Becconsall, North Meols, Tarleton.

    That's a lot of anti-Tory Labour to squeeze though.
    Depends on enough of the remaining Labour vote not belonging to one of the following categories:

    1.

    That's a lot of Labour voters who won't be available to help close the gap.
    If John Pugh is the LibDem candidate, I think they'd stand a chance.

    But he's 68 right now and will be 71 in 2020. I suspect he'll step down, and I suspect it'll be a comfortable Conservative hold. Without Pugh, the LibDems may drop to third or fourth.
    This is part of the reason why my view of the LDs prospects in the next GE is so pessimistic: the additional difficulty they have in challenging without the incumbency advantage. Your assessment of Southport seems sound, but also what about Clegg in Sheffield Hallam - up against a notional Labour majority of 4,000 and doubtless a very determined campaign to finish him off this time, do you think he'll have the fight left in him?

    If they can't make any gains then that would leave them down to their last six seats: four remaining notional majorities, plus Brake and Mulholland incumbent in close marginals.
    OK. I think the LibDems will get about 12% in 2020, up from 8% last time.

    I think they'll win:

    * 2-3 seats in South West London, where there were big Remain votes.
    * Cambridge, where the seat has become rather less Labour friendly.
    * Edinburgh West and North East Fife, where they comfortably gained the Holyrood seats from the SNP.

    Then probably four to six of their existing seats, and maybe a couple elsewhere which gets to my 10-14 seats forecast.
    Well, my recollection is you called their 2015 performance better than most, so everyone listen to rcs!

    I'm quite interested in my proposed parliamentary seat in the review, as it includes several LD inclined areas that made up part of a LD seat lost in 2015, and divests itself of quite a bit of prime Tory rural heartland. I doubt it would make it competitive for the LDs, but I can see the notional Tory majority being quite a bit less than now.
    He lost money on betting they would at least 12 seats, I bet no one thought he would lose that bet.
    I had most of my money on the 11 to 20 band at 4-1, but I also had some money on the 10 or less at 16-1. I ended up flat.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    AndyJS said:

    Labour targets in England and Wales using UKPR/Anthony Wells notionals:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10EJPl37xhc_B_TkHObNrahfzZBCFU4TW8MM_QB3PaXE/edit#gid=0

    If those targets are correct Labour would need a repeat of 1997 to get the slimmest of majorities.
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