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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s by election roundup

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,296

    GIN1138 said:

    Am going to watch Jezza Vs Owen Who on iplayer in a sec.

    How much popcorn will I need? ;)

    You won't be able to find enough in the Country after that depressing display of the dying embers of the labour party. I find it very sad and I am a conservative who should be over the moon
    Ditto. A Parliamentary democracy does need a serviceable opposition to work properly though, something that's been missing for a year and doesn't look like it's coming back anytime soon.
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    RobD said:

    First!!!

    [Corbynista definition]

    Technically true if you are viewing the comments on the main site (newest first).

    New first!
    Last!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,603
    edited September 2016
    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,080
    OK, off to take a butchers.
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited September 2016
    BREAKING NEWS: Dame Sarah Storey becomes the most successful female British Paralympian ever as she wins gold in Rio

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3780530/Dame-Sarah-Storey-successful-female-British-Paralympian-wins-gold-Rio.html#ixzz4JhXzNYFl

    Well done that girl !!
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    I find Smith simply too painful to watch. He is that bad, like a child who cannot remember his lines at a school nativity play.

    On the other hand, Corbyn exudes a beatific looniness, which makes strangely absorbing viewing.
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    GIN1138 said:

    Am going to watch Jezza Vs Owen Who on iplayer in a sec.

    How much popcorn will I need? ;)

    You won't be able to find enough in the Country after that depressing display of the dying embers of the labour party. I find it very sad and I am a conservative who should be over the moon
    Big G, Would you fancy a modest wager that the polls over the next couple of weeks will continue to show Labour hovering around the 30% mark?
    I am not into betting but would expect labour to be between 28 and 30% but that is more because the polls tend to overstate labour
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,919
    Sandpit said:

    TonyE said:

    I really didn't think that anyone could make Jeremy Corbyn look like a competent politician.

    Bravo Owen Smith, you have proved you're at least good for one thing.

    Oh to be a fly on the wall in No.10 watching this tonight. The PM must be laughing her head off at those two clowns, that early election she dismissed must be tempting.
    I think she's too sensible for that. Labour have become a charade. If May gets things wrong, and she surely doesn't believe that she's infallible, then there's a real danger that we find ourselves in the hands of people like Corbyn and Smith. I'm reasonably sure they have their individual merits (although hard to spot tonight), but I'm far more sure that neither of them, nor the people that surround them, are fit to hold down a paper-round.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,101
    TonyE said:

    Speedy said:

    TonyE said:

    I really didn't think that anyone could make Jeremy Corbyn look like a competent politician.

    Bravo Owen Smith, you have proved you're at least good for one thing.

    I was one of the first who noticed it back in early July.

    As I said many times Corbyn wins by default because his enemies make him look good by comparison.
    In the end there's onky one winner from that debacle, God must surely be smiling on the vicar's daughter!
    The Messiah won easily though.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686
    My school is the eighth best grammar in the country! Better than most fee paying schools as well I'd imagine.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/09/08/top-10-grammar-schools-for-gcse-results2/
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016
    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    You know negotiations would be much more level if Britain and Switzerland had access to any secret bank accounts and slush funds of EU politicians.

    Switzerland prevented a German invasion in WW2 because most german and Nazi officials had swiss bank accounts and used the country to hide their fortunes.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,768
    Is Owen Smith the man who managed to lose Blaenau Gwent for Labour? Now we see why.
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    I find Smith simply too painful to watch. He is that bad, like a child who cannot remember his lines at a school nativity play.

    On the other hand, Corbyn exudes a beatific looniness, which makes strangely absorbing viewing.

    I was watching the coverage of the 1987 election this week, and there was a lot of talk of the Loony Left. They had no idea how it would develop 20 years later...
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    rcs1000 said:

    Owen Smith's idea of campaigning at the next GE to re-join Europe must mean he accepts the Euro or he hasn't thought it through. Corbyn wanting out of Europe is due to his renationalisation programmes

    I'm fairly sure that most of the Eurozone members would rather there were no new members for a couple of decades while they get their house in order.
    Indeed, as it has been endlessly pointed out here, it's easy for new EU members to avoid joining the Euro simply by declaring themselves perpetually unready for the ERM.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    welshowl said:

    Corbyn says nothing of substance at all. Gets huge cheers by saying how good it'll be to promote community cohesion and anti racism. How's he going to do it? He just repeats the same crap over and over.

    Owen smith is much worse of course but the real loser here is the Labour Party. Real state of a party.

    Jezza's not strong in the word "how". That means engaging with the real world full of shades of grey. Much easier to have a "position".
    A bit like Trump tbh.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    GIN1138 said:

    Am going to watch Jezza Vs Owen Who on iplayer in a sec.

    How much popcorn will I need? ;)

    You won't be able to find enough in the Country after that depressing display of the dying embers of the labour party. I find it very sad and I am a conservative who should be over the moon
    Big G, Would you fancy a modest wager that the polls over the next couple of weeks will continue to show Labour hovering around the 30% mark?
    I am not into betting but would expect labour to be between 28 and 30% but that is more because the polls tend to overstate labour
    Fair enough. We are supposed to pay attention to the polls on this site, at least as much as so great is the energy devoted to dissecting and analysing them, yet Corbyn is polling just a couple of points below Labour's GE score. He may be all the things people say about him (and my own views are not printable on a family web-site), yet he doesn't seem to be causing Labour that much damage.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    nunu said:

    welshowl said:

    Corbyn says nothing of substance at all. Gets huge cheers by saying how good it'll be to promote community cohesion and anti racism. How's he going to do it? He just repeats the same crap over and over.

    Owen smith is much worse of course but the real loser here is the Labour Party. Real state of a party.

    Jezza's not strong in the word "how". That means engaging with the real world full of shades of grey. Much easier to have a "position".
    A bit like Trump tbh.
    Indeed
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    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    That could be quite a big development if both UK and the Swiss combine together in seeking a settlement.

    Bet Juncker's et al are going off the deep end again and will no doubt issue a statement tomorrow banning our two Countries talking to each other and sending in the new Euro Armies tanks !!
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,459
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,459
    Sean_F said:

    chestnut said:

    Labour debate incorporates an argument about the death of all Jews?

    Is the debate between those who argue it never happened vs those who think it was a good thing?
    I shouldn't laugh, but that was very funny.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,459
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    You know negotiations would be much more level if Britain and Switzerland had access to any secret bank accounts and slush funds of EU politicians.

    Switzerland prevented a German invasion in WW2 because most german and Nazi officials had swiss bank accounts and used the country to hide their fortunes.
    Ummmm: I think Switzerland avoided invasion because Switzerland is a very difficult country to invade, and because the Swiss government was very friendly to the Nazis.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Cookie said:

    Is Owen Smith the man who managed to lose Blaenau Gwent for Labour? Now we see why.

    It tells us a lot about the MP's who support such a useless person to be their leader.

    If Owen Smith is the best the PLP has to offer then of course Corbyn will look like a political giant.

    It's amazing that in every step of this war the anti-Corbyn MP's prove how stupid they are, if they were in charge of Labour instead of Corbyn there would be nothing left by tea time.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited September 2016

    GIN1138 said:

    Am going to watch Jezza Vs Owen Who on iplayer in a sec.

    How much popcorn will I need? ;)

    You won't be able to find enough in the Country after that depressing display of the dying embers of the labour party. I find it very sad and I am a conservative who should be over the moon
    Big G, Would you fancy a modest wager that the polls over the next couple of weeks will continue to show Labour hovering around the 30% mark?
    I am not into betting but would expect labour to be between 28 and 30% but that is more because the polls tend to overstate labour
    Fair enough. We are supposed to pay attention to the polls on this site, at least as much as so great is the energy devoted to dissecting and analysing them, yet Corbyn is polling just a couple of points below Labour's GE score. He may be all the things people say about him (and my own views are not printable on a family web-site), yet he doesn't seem to be causing Labour that much damage.
    Quite often a building looks the same on the outside as the load-bearing beams are rotting, and external observations give no indication of the impending catastrophic collapse.

    In other words, failure is a transition state, not linear.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    MikeL said:

    Corbyn going on about poverty and inequality - his favourite subjects.

    Only problem is they come low down on MORI issues index.

    As did the E.U.......
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,081
    Just been watching the debate and my conclusion is

    Labour is far better off under Corbyn than Owen Smith. Smith is DREADFUL.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    I'm offering a bold, alternative vision of first, untrammeled by mundane numbering systems.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,141
    nunu said:

    MikeL said:

    Corbyn going on about poverty and inequality - his favourite subjects.

    Only problem is they come low down on MORI issues index.

    As did the E.U.......
    How high was immigration?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,459
    MaxPB said:

    My school is the eighth best grammar in the country! Better than most fee paying schools as well I'd imagine.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/09/08/top-10-grammar-schools-for-gcse-results2/

    My school, not so much: https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/109690

    And look how I turned out :)
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,603
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    You know negotiations would be much more level if Britain and Switzerland had access to any secret bank accounts and slush funds of EU politicians.

    Switzerland prevented a German invasion in WW2 because most german and Nazi officials had swiss bank accounts and used the country to hide their fortunes.
    Yes I expect Switzerland knows plenty of secrets about the financial affairs of Eurocrats they would rather were kept hidden
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    You know negotiations would be much more level if Britain and Switzerland had access to any secret bank accounts and slush funds of EU politicians.

    Switzerland prevented a German invasion in WW2 because most german and Nazi officials had swiss bank accounts and used the country to hide their fortunes.
    Ummmm: I think Switzerland avoided invasion because Switzerland is a very difficult country to invade, and because the Swiss government was very friendly to the Nazis.
    It helped that every Nazi official had an interest to protect Switzerland from any harm.
    The only Nazi minister who didn't had a swiss bank account was probably Hitler himself.

    You can imagine the constant arguments between Hitler vs everybody around him about invading it.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,459
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    You know negotiations would be much more level if Britain and Switzerland had access to any secret bank accounts and slush funds of EU politicians.

    Switzerland prevented a German invasion in WW2 because most german and Nazi officials had swiss bank accounts and used the country to hide their fortunes.
    Yes I expect Switzerland knows plenty of secrets about the financial affairs of Eurocrats they would rather were kept hidden
    Hmmm: that hasn't enabled them to achieve anything particularly impressive in their negotiations with the EU.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,141
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    You know negotiations would be much more level if Britain and Switzerland had access to any secret bank accounts and slush funds of EU politicians.

    Switzerland prevented a German invasion in WW2 because most german and Nazi officials had swiss bank accounts and used the country to hide their fortunes.
    Ummmm: I think Switzerland avoided invasion because Switzerland is a very difficult country to invade, and because the Swiss government was very friendly to the Nazis.
    It helped that every Nazi official had an interest to protect Switzerland from any harm.
    The only Nazi minister who didn't had a swiss bank account was probably Hitler himself.

    You can imagine the constant arguments between Hitler vs everybody around him about invading it.
    He called it the' pimple on the face of Europe':

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,768
    edited September 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    You know negotiations would be much more level if Britain and Switzerland had access to any secret bank accounts and slush funds of EU politicians.

    Switzerland prevented a German invasion in WW2 because most german and Nazi officials had swiss bank accounts and used the country to hide their fortunes.
    Ummmm: I think Switzerland avoided invasion because Switzerland is a very difficult country to invade, and because the Swiss government was very friendly to the Nazis.
    Yes, Swiss forces were also quite effective (albeit largely as a deterrent). They probably couldn't have held off the whole of the Wehrmacht for long, but they could have made it difficult enough to slow up more strategically important progress elsewhere - and so were left alone as German war aims did not depend on the occupation or removal of Switzerland. IIRR the Swiss Luftwaffe comfortably saw off the German Luftwaffe on a couple of occasions early on in the war when Goring decided to test the extent of Swiss neutrality.
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    The bitter in remainers latest stunt is going to be standing outside the albert hall giving free EU flags to concert goers in the hope of persuading them to wave EU flags instead of the Union Flag.

    Its a bit sad really.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/07/pro-eu-protest-planned-for-last-night-of-the-proms

    The Last Night Of The Proms ceased to be a patriotic celebration of Britishness some time ago.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,459
    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    Of course, Switzerland is hardly disinterested. They have no access to the single market in financial services (which means that Swiss firms cannot directly sell financial services products to those in the UK, they need to set up a local subsidiary and use that). If they combine with us, they might get it so that UBS and Credit Suisse can offer what they currently offer from London from Zurich instead.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,296

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    That could be quite a big development if both UK and the Swiss combine together in seeking a settlement.

    Bet Juncker's et al are going off the deep end again and will no doubt issue a statement tomorrow banning our two Countries talking to each other and sending in the new Euro Armies tanks !!
    Every comment from a Eurocrat since the vote has just reinforced why we decided to leave in the first place. Maybe the so-called 'hard brexit' is preferable to spending years trying to deal with idiots like Drunker.
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    Sean_F said:

    chestnut said:

    Labour debate incorporates an argument about the death of all Jews?

    Is the debate between those who argue it never happened vs those who think it was a good thing?
    I am truly baffled by the obsession with Jews. Truly.

    And I cannot fathom, at all, for the life of me, why Livingstone keeps going on about Hitler.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,768
    edited September 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    You know negotiations would be much more level if Britain and Switzerland had access to any secret bank accounts and slush funds of EU politicians.

    Switzerland prevented a German invasion in WW2 because most german and Nazi officials had swiss bank accounts and used the country to hide their fortunes.
    Yes I expect Switzerland knows plenty of secrets about the financial affairs of Eurocrats they would rather were kept hidden
    Hmmm: that hasn't enabled them to achieve anything particularly impressive in their negotiations with the EU.
    Well individual Swiss bankers will know the secret financial affairs of Eurocrats. Not necessarily the Swiss government though. That's kind of the point of a Swiss bank account.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100




    Fair enough. We are supposed to pay attention to the polls on this site, at least as much as so great is the energy devoted to dissecting and analysing them, yet Corbyn is polling just a couple of points below Labour's GE score. He may be all the things people say about him (and my own views are not printable on a family web-site), yet he doesn't seem to be causing Labour that much damage.

    As I said last year Corbyn is a very polarizing figure, he doesn't gain much support but doesn't lose much either.

    Compared with the present alternatives he is still a safe pair of hands.

    Owen Smith is much worse, he is guaranteed to only lose piles of votes.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,459
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    You know negotiations would be much more level if Britain and Switzerland had access to any secret bank accounts and slush funds of EU politicians.

    Switzerland prevented a German invasion in WW2 because most german and Nazi officials had swiss bank accounts and used the country to hide their fortunes.
    Yes I expect Switzerland knows plenty of secrets about the financial affairs of Eurocrats they would rather were kept hidden
    Hmmm: that hasn't enabled them to achieve anything particularly impressive in their negotiations with the EU.
    Well individual Swiss bankers will know the secret financial affairs of Eurocrats. Not necessarily the Swiss government though. That's kind of the point of a Swiss bank account.
    Actually, I somehow doubt it. Which retired Eurocrats have gone to ground in Cap Ferrat or Monte Carlo? Seriously, does anyone think that Baroness Ashton or Neil Kinnock ended up wealthy after their time in Brussels. (And I think Europe's telecoms companies would have happily bribed Neelie Kroes if she'd been amenable.)

    I think the corruption is more insidious: travel anywhere in First Class for research, take anyone out to lunch, and bill the Commission. You live high on the hog, and you think yourself important and a man of the people.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,837
    edited September 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    You know negotiations would be much more level if Britain and Switzerland had access to any secret bank accounts and slush funds of EU politicians.

    Switzerland prevented a German invasion in WW2 because most german and Nazi officials had swiss bank accounts and used the country to hide their fortunes.
    Ummmm: I think Switzerland avoided invasion because Switzerland is a very difficult country to invade, and because the Swiss government was very friendly to the Nazis.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum

    "Switzerland possessed the most disgusting and miserable people and political system. The Swiss were the mortal enemies of the new Germany."[2] - Hitler, 1941
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,977
    Woah. Not sure who comes across as more deluded in this QT - Corbynista audience or Owen Smith....
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    Sean_F said:

    chestnut said:

    Labour debate incorporates an argument about the death of all Jews?

    Is the debate between those who argue it never happened vs those who think it was a good thing?
    I am truly baffled by the obsession with Jews. Truly.

    And I cannot fathom, at all, for the life of me, why Livingstone keeps going on about Hitler.
    Drink.
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    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,884

    GIN1138 said:

    Am going to watch Jezza Vs Owen Who on iplayer in a sec.

    How much popcorn will I need? ;)

    You won't be able to find enough in the Country after that depressing display of the dying embers of the labour party. I find it very sad and I am a conservative who should be over the moon
    Big G, Would you fancy a modest wager that the polls over the next couple of weeks will continue to show Labour hovering around the 30% mark?
    I am not into betting but would expect labour to be between 28 and 30% but that is more because the polls tend to overstate labour
    Fair enough. We are supposed to pay attention to the polls on this site, at least as much as so great is the energy devoted to dissecting and analysing them, yet Corbyn is polling just a couple of points below Labour's GE score. He may be all the things people say about him (and my own views are not printable on a family web-site), yet he doesn't seem to be causing Labour that much damage.
    It was quite remarkable that as government approval, David Cameron and George Osborne's ratings plunged into the abyss, Labour's didn't rise one jot.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,055
    Mortimer said:

    Woah. Not sure who comes across as more deluded in this QT - Corbynista audience or Owen Smith....

    I don't think the pbCom right wingery, Brexit glitterati are best placed to give advice to the Labour party. I might be wrong.

    Similarly, as a lefty, I am gobsmacked, that Theresa May is such a headbanging zealous, loony...where the hell did that come from? But I am not a right winger......so what the hell do I know?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,128

    Sean_F said:

    chestnut said:

    Labour debate incorporates an argument about the death of all Jews?

    Is the debate between those who argue it never happened vs those who think it was a good thing?
    I am truly baffled by the obsession with Jews. Truly.

    And I cannot fathom, at all, for the life of me, why Livingstone keeps going on about Hitler.
    I can only assume it's because they think Jews are bourgeois, and Israel is pro-Western, that they think Jews must be the enemy.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,977
    tyson said:

    Mortimer said:

    Woah. Not sure who comes across as more deluded in this QT - Corbynista audience or Owen Smith....

    I don't think the pbCom right wingery, Brexit glitterati are best placed to give advice to the Labour party. I might be wrong.

    Similarly, as a lefty, I am gobsmacked, that Theresa May is such a headbanging zealous, loony...where the hell did that come from? But I am not a right winger......so what the hell do I know?
    Not keen on the centre ground eh tyson?
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    RobD said:

    nunu said:

    MikeL said:

    Corbyn going on about poverty and inequality - his favourite subjects.

    Only problem is they come low down on MORI issues index.

    As did the E.U.......
    How high was immigration?
    Why so defensive?
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The only thing that worries my, Hillary will win, prediction is the stonkingly high undecided figures in many polls.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,141
    nunu said:

    RobD said:

    nunu said:

    MikeL said:

    Corbyn going on about poverty and inequality - his favourite subjects.

    Only problem is they come low down on MORI issues index.

    As did the E.U.......
    How high was immigration?
    Why so defensive?
    Just pointing out that the issue tracker does simplify things.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,055
    Mortimer said:

    tyson said:

    Mortimer said:

    Woah. Not sure who comes across as more deluded in this QT - Corbynista audience or Owen Smith....

    I don't think the pbCom right wingery, Brexit glitterati are best placed to give advice to the Labour party. I might be wrong.

    Similarly, as a lefty, I am gobsmacked, that Theresa May is such a headbanging zealous, loony...where the hell did that come from? But I am not a right winger......so what the hell do I know?
    Not keen on the centre ground eh tyson?
    I think you'll find I came around to quite liking Cameron.

    If May hits the rich, corporate wealth, and privileged on taxes and wealth, she will turn my head as a serious politician. At the, moment it all looks to be one way way right wing traffic....
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,296
    Mortimer said:

    tyson said:

    Mortimer said:

    Woah. Not sure who comes across as more deluded in this QT - Corbynista audience or Owen Smith....

    I don't think the pbCom right wingery, Brexit glitterati are best placed to give advice to the Labour party. I might be wrong.

    Similarly, as a lefty, I am gobsmacked, that Theresa May is such a headbanging zealous, loony...where the hell did that come from? But I am not a right winger......so what the hell do I know?
    Not keen on the centre ground eh tyson?
    I wonder how long it will take for the Labour Party to realise that in order to win power, they need a couple of million people who voted Conservative for the last two elections to vote Labour.

    Those people don't think that Britain's biggest problems are Palestine, insufficient immigration and unilateral disarmament.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,603
    edited September 2016

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    That could be quite a big development if both UK and the Swiss combine together in seeking a settlement.


    Bet Juncker's et al are going off the deep end again and will no doubt issue a statement tomorrow banning our two Countries talking to each other and sending in the new Euro Armies tanks !!
    I hope so.

    Given the state of most EU nations' armies compared to the British army and how difficult Switzerland is to conquer, probably not a good idea for Juncker to do anything too drastic
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Alistair said:

    The only thing that worries my, Hillary will win, prediction is the stonkingly high undecided figures in many polls.

    I've seen in two polls now when pushed they favour Hillary something like 50-12%.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,977
    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    tyson said:

    Mortimer said:

    Woah. Not sure who comes across as more deluded in this QT - Corbynista audience or Owen Smith....

    I don't think the pbCom right wingery, Brexit glitterati are best placed to give advice to the Labour party. I might be wrong.

    Similarly, as a lefty, I am gobsmacked, that Theresa May is such a headbanging zealous, loony...where the hell did that come from? But I am not a right winger......so what the hell do I know?
    Not keen on the centre ground eh tyson?
    I wonder how long it will take for the Labour Party to realise that in order to win power, they need a couple of million people who voted Conservative for the last two elections to vote Labour.

    Those people don't think that Britain's biggest problems are Palestine, insufficient immigration and unilateral disarmament.
    They also, largely, don't dine on quinoa or read the grauniad. The horror!
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    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    If you want to see a wonderful bun fight within Labour, I find LabourList.org's comment can be comedy gold. Full of hand wringers talking comradely, but hating each other. Read tomorrow post BBC debate, once it has filled up with naive comments.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,459
    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    tyson said:

    Mortimer said:

    Woah. Not sure who comes across as more deluded in this QT - Corbynista audience or Owen Smith....

    I don't think the pbCom right wingery, Brexit glitterati are best placed to give advice to the Labour party. I might be wrong.

    Similarly, as a lefty, I am gobsmacked, that Theresa May is such a headbanging zealous, loony...where the hell did that come from? But I am not a right winger......so what the hell do I know?
    Not keen on the centre ground eh tyson?
    I wonder how long it will take for the Labour Party to realise that in order to win power, they need a couple of million people who voted Conservative for the last two elections to vote Labour.

    Those people don't think that Britain's biggest problems are Palestine, insufficient immigration and unilateral disarmament.
    They also, largely, don't dine on quinoa or read the grauniad. The horror!
    Don't tell anyone, but I had quinoa the other day, and it was rather nice. Although I can't stomach the way it is pronounced: does one say "Ah, I loved that movie about the boxer Rocky Bill-bwahhh."
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,962
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    You know negotiations would be much more level if Britain and Switzerland had access to any secret bank accounts and slush funds of EU politicians.

    Switzerland prevented a German invasion in WW2 because most german and Nazi officials had swiss bank accounts and used the country to hide their fortunes.
    Ummmm: I think Switzerland avoided invasion because Switzerland is a very difficult country to invade, and because the Swiss government was very friendly to the Nazis.
    I think Switzerland was more useful to Germany as a neutral state than as an occupied country. The banks were one thing and the railways between Germany and Italy were another. Switzerland would have been a very easy country for Germany to blockade - they effectively controlled all the surrounding territory. Also they invaded Norway, which on the face of it is a geographically more challenging country for them.

    The Swiss press was very anti-Nazi, which caused tensions with a government that was quietly collaborating in all areas with the regime.
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    Lib Dems gain Mosborough

    #LibDemFightBack
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,603
    edited September 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    BBC interview with former Swiss President sees her say Switzerland wants to work with the UK to reform free movement rules so they can both still get some access to the single market. Swiss diplomats have apparently already been dispatched to London to help with Brexit negotiations

    Of course, Switzerland is hardly disinterested. They have no access to the single market in financial services (which means that Swiss firms cannot directly sell financial services products to those in the UK, they need to set up a local subsidiary and use that). If they combine with us, they might get it so that UBS and Credit Suisse can offer what they currently offer from London from Zurich instead.
    Well we could potentially lose business to Paris, Frankfurt and Dublin without single market access so having a few Swiss banks do more business from Switzerland to the EU would be a small price to pay
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,348
    Imagine Middle England watching that QT and hearing Labour going on about racism, anti-Semitism and Hamas.

    Where do those issues come on the MORI Issues Index? I imagine about 1%, if that. The average floating voter will be completely bewildered by it.

    Then (assuming it's Corbyn) add in Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament and most toxic of all refusing to say he supports the Monarchy.

    If Corbyn fights the next GE, it will be like no other. Subjects not even mentioned once in the last few GEs are going to completely dominate the media - with Corbyn under absolutely massive bombardment.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,459

    Lib Dems gain Mosborough

    #LibDemFightBack

    Their activist base, which had largely deserted them 18 months ago, is certainly working again. It is too early to say whether this will feed through to national success. (I define national success at 12-16 seats in 2020. Others may have a different definition.)
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Mosborough
    LD 1711
    Lab 1279
    UKIP 466
    Con 229
    Green 67
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,977
    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    tyson said:

    Mortimer said:

    Woah. Not sure who comes across as more deluded in this QT - Corbynista audience or Owen Smith....

    I don't think the pbCom right wingery, Brexit glitterati are best placed to give advice to the Labour party. I might be wrong.

    Similarly, as a lefty, I am gobsmacked, that Theresa May is such a headbanging zealous, loony...where the hell did that come from? But I am not a right winger......so what the hell do I know?
    Not keen on the centre ground eh tyson?
    I wonder how long it will take for the Labour Party to realise that in order to win power, they need a couple of million people who voted Conservative for the last two elections to vote Labour.

    Those people don't think that Britain's biggest problems are Palestine, insufficient immigration and unilateral disarmament.
    They also, largely, don't dine on quinoa or read the grauniad. The horror!
    Don't tell anyone, but I had quinoa the other day, and it was rather nice. Although I can't stomach the way it is pronounced: does one say "Ah, I loved that movie about the boxer Rocky Bill-bwahhh."
    :)

    I'm currently in rural Norfolk at a sale. My comfortable pub for a few days doesn't seem to service rice or pasta, let alone these new fangled grains. Quite a refreshing change tbh.

    I'm more of a fan of lentils than keeeeen-whahhhhh....
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    rcs1000 said:

    Lib Dems gain Mosborough

    #LibDemFightBack

    Their activist base, which had largely deserted them 18 months ago, is certainly working again. It is too early to say whether this will feed through to national success. (I define national success at 12-16 seats in 2020. Others may have a different definition.)
    I know they've been putting a lot of effort here in Sheffield, I wonder if their strategy is to try and retake the councils they've previously held.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,141
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,977

    rcs1000 said:

    Lib Dems gain Mosborough

    #LibDemFightBack

    Their activist base, which had largely deserted them 18 months ago, is certainly working again. It is too early to say whether this will feed through to national success. (I define national success at 12-16 seats in 2020. Others may have a different definition.)
    I know they've been putting a lot of effort here in Sheffield, I wonder if their strategy is to try and retake the councils they've previously held.
    Presumably this helps finances too, given the traditional 10% suggestion....
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    corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    rcs1000 said:

    Lib Dems gain Mosborough

    #LibDemFightBack

    Their activist base, which had largely deserted them 18 months ago, is certainly working again. It is too early to say whether this will feed through to national success. (I define national success at 12-16 seats in 2020. Others may have a different definition.)
    For me it's competitive seats, won seats is of course important but we're obviously in a long term rebuilding phase, so it's the number of seats where we're within say 12% of the winner. That gives you something to work with (and also indicates a wider spread of support).

    Anecdotally Brexit has fired a lot of people up, membership surge, and is also handily uniting the party.
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    Labour HOLD Yeoman Hill (Mansfield).

    Yeoman Hill (Mansfield) result:
    LAB: 45.7% (-4.5)
    MIF: 24.3% (-25.5)
    UKIP: 17.3% (+17.3)
    CON: 6.7% (+6.7)
    IND: 5.9% (+5.9)

    MIF: Mansfield Independent Forum.
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    Oh, MIF, not MILF, I got way too excited for a moment
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,459

    rcs1000 said:

    Lib Dems gain Mosborough

    #LibDemFightBack

    Their activist base, which had largely deserted them 18 months ago, is certainly working again. It is too early to say whether this will feed through to national success. (I define national success at 12-16 seats in 2020. Others may have a different definition.)
    I know they've been putting a lot of effort here in Sheffield, I wonder if their strategy is to try and retake the councils they've previously held.
    I'm sure that's right. Control the council and you have a ready supply of activists and are seen as a credible local force.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,977
    edited September 2016
    Jeremy Corbyn seems to dislike the EU for some of its unpopular 'positives' and love it for free movement at exactly the same time....which puts him at odds with a large majority of the British public.

    Oh, and seems to think all rights ever granted to British workers, mothers and fathers were EU diktats.
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    Labour HOLD Parkside (Barrow-in-Furness).

    Parkside (Barrow-in-Furness) result:
    LAB: 52.1% (-3.0)
    CON: 42.3% (-2.6)
    UKIP: 5.6% (+5.6)
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Barrow
    Lab 317
    Con 257
    UKIP 34
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    trump and pence continuing their bizzare putin love in
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited September 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    tyson said:

    Mortimer said:

    Woah. Not sure who comes across as more deluded in this QT - Corbynista audience or Owen Smith....

    I don't think the pbCom right wingery, Brexit glitterati are best placed to give advice to the Labour party. I might be wrong.

    Similarly, as a lefty, I am gobsmacked, that Theresa May is such a headbanging zealous, loony...where the hell did that come from? But I am not a right winger......so what the hell do I know?
    Not keen on the centre ground eh tyson?
    I wonder how long it will take for the Labour Party to realise that in order to win power, they need a couple of million people who voted Conservative for the last two elections to vote Labour.

    Those people don't think that Britain's biggest problems are Palestine, insufficient immigration and unilateral disarmament.
    They also, largely, don't dine on quinoa or read the grauniad. The horror!
    Don't tell anyone, but I had quinoa the other day, and it was rather nice. Although I can't stomach the way it is pronounced: does one say "Ah, I loved that movie about the boxer Rocky Bill-bwahhh."
    At McDonnell Towers, it is, and always will be, pronounced quin-noah. Here I stand. I can do no other.
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    I am right to describe Henry IV as the country's most famous usurper? Or am I missing someone more obvious.
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    UKIP HOLD Shepway South (Maidstone).
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,055

    Oh, MIF, not MILF, I got way too excited for a moment

    I get it.......you are Kenneth Williams longed. lost and loved legitimate love child
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    Looks like the British & French authorities have both foiled terrorist attacks today.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,977

    I am right to describe Henry IV as the country's most famous usurper? Or am I missing someone more obvious.

    I'd agree with that. And it was my period....
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,081
    Bloody Hell. Mosborough.
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    Mortimer said:

    I am right to describe Henry IV as the country's most famous usurper? Or am I missing someone more obvious.

    I'd agree with that. And it was my period....
    Ta, is for the morning thread.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Mansfield figures
    Lab 278
    MIF 148
    UKIP 105
    Con 41
    Ind 36
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,977

    Mortimer said:

    I am right to describe Henry IV as the country's most famous usurper? Or am I missing someone more obvious.

    I'd agree with that. And it was my period....
    Ta, is for the morning thread.
    And until Tudor, certainly the most successful too - Lancastrian historians managed to this day to paint one of the most inspirational Kings (Richard II) as a dweeb.
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    Mortimer said:

    I am right to describe Henry IV as the country's most famous usurper? Or am I missing someone more obvious.

    I'd agree with that. And it was my period....
    Henry VII had a far more tenuous claim to the throne...
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,962

    I am right to describe Henry IV as the country's most famous usurper? Or am I missing someone more obvious.

    It depends which country. In Scotland, Robert the Bruce. Maybe higher celeb status than Henry IV?
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,977

    Mortimer said:

    I am right to describe Henry IV as the country's most famous usurper? Or am I missing someone more obvious.

    I'd agree with that. And it was my period....
    Henry VII had a far more tenuous claim to the throne...
    Oh absolutely, but taking the crown during a civil war is very different to usurping the way Bolingbroke did.
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    FF43 said:

    I am right to describe Henry IV as the country's most famous usurper? Or am I missing someone more obvious.

    It depends which country. In Scotland, Robert the Bruce. Maybe higher celeb status than Henry IV?
    Henry IV wins because Shakespeare did a play on it.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited September 2016
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,977

    Mansfield figures
    Lab 278
    MIF 148
    UKIP 105
    Con 41
    Ind 36

    I see the LD fightback continues apace....

    :)
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    Nearly 200 sexual offences have been carried out on migrants by fellow refugees in asylum centres in just one German state alone in six months, politician reveals

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3780047/Nearly-200-sexual-offences-carried-migrants-fellow-refugees-asylum-centres-just-one-German-state-six-months-politician-reveals.html
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,962
    edited September 2016

    FF43 said:

    I am right to describe Henry IV as the country's most famous usurper? Or am I missing someone more obvious.

    It depends which country. In Scotland, Robert the Bruce. Maybe higher celeb status than Henry IV?
    Henry IV wins because Shakespeare did a play on it.
    Yeah, but Brucie gets the spider.

    ... Oh and the Mel Gibson treatment. What does your Will Shakespeare say to that?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Maidstone figures

    UKIP 432
    Con 215
    Lab 183
    Ind 88
    LD 31
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,097
    edited September 2016
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I am right to describe Henry IV as the country's most famous usurper? Or am I missing someone more obvious.

    It depends which country. In Scotland, Robert the Bruce. Maybe higher celeb status than Henry IV?
    Henry IV wins because Shakespeare did a play on it.
    Yeah, but Brucie gets the spider.

    ... Oh and the Mel Gibson treatment. What does your Will Shakespeare say to that?
    Only the true historical greats get a Shakespeare play about them, the duffers don't.

    That's why Julius Caesar got a play, and Hannibal didn't.

    Re Mel Gibson, I can't imagine why an alcoholic racist thought he'd be ideal to play a Scotsman.
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    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I am right to describe Henry IV as the country's most famous usurper? Or am I missing someone more obvious.

    It depends which country. In Scotland, Robert the Bruce. Maybe higher celeb status than Henry IV?
    Henry IV wins because Shakespeare did a play on it.
    Yeah, but Brucie gets the spider.

    ... Oh and the Mel Gibson treatment. What does your Will Shakespeare say to that?
    Only the true historical greats get a Shakespeare play about them, the duffers don't.

    That's why Julius Caesar got a play, and Hannibal didn't.

    Re Mel Gibson, I can't imagine why an alcoholic racist thought he'd be ideal to play a Scotsman.
    Macbeth was quite a famous usurper.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,080
    Jezza utterly dominated QT... Owen Who looked petulant, childish, mean spirited and undemocratic.... Which is exactly what he is of course.
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    nunu said:

    Alistair said:

    The only thing that worries my, Hillary will win, prediction is the stonkingly high undecided figures in many polls.

    I've seen in two polls now when pushed they favour Hillary something like 50-12%.
    They would say that, wouldn't they? If they're Trump voters who don't want to admit it then that's the result you'd expect from a forced choice.
This discussion has been closed.