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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Brace yourselves for the right wing version of Momentum

SystemSystem Posts: 12,265
edited September 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Brace yourselves for the right wing version of Momentum

Arron Banks, an insurance tycoon and co-founder of Leave.EU, is canvassing supporters of the Brexit campaign he financed. He said he wants to create a “right-wing Momentum”, a version of the hard-left network of Jeremy Corbyn supporters that has gained increasing influence over Labour.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    LEAVE 52%
    REMAIN 48%

    :innocent:
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Has Mr T's piece been plugged on here yet? It's the one where Corbyn is an emerald jewel wasp...

    The only way Labour could have eluded this fate was by avoiding the wasp in the first place. Instead, Ed Miliband had his brilliant £3 membership wheeze, allowing lots of bug-eyed Trots and angry, buzzing Marxists to get close to the vulnerable thoracic ganglia.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/want-to-know-whats-happened-to-labour-study-parasites/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,985
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    LEAVE 52%
    REMAIN 48%

    :innocent:

    Splitters!
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Presumably Mr Banks' new group will be called Inertia?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,407
    Tissue_Price said:

    Has Mr T's piece been plugged on here yet? It's the one where Corbyn is an emerald jewel wasp...

    The only way Labour could have eluded this fate was by avoiding the wasp in the first place. Instead, Ed Miliband had his brilliant £3 membership wheeze, allowing lots of bug-eyed Trots and angry, buzzing Marxists to get close to the vulnerable thoracic ganglia.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/want-to-know-whats-happened-to-labour-study-parasites/

    Yup.

    PBers have an obsession with bees, wasps, and hornets when it comes to the current labour party.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    ... Leave.EU endorsed Andrea Leadsom for Conservative leader...

    Well, quite.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,807
    Tissue_Price said:

    Presumably Mr Banks' new group will be called Inertia?

    irrestistible force versus immovable object
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,407
    geoffw said:

    Tissue_Price said:

    Presumably Mr Banks' new group will be called Inertia?

    irrestistible force versus immovable object
    More the resistible force meets the movable object
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Tissue_Price said:

    Presumably Mr Banks' new group will be called Inertia?


    Escape Velocity

  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited September 2016
    ICYMI What is Aleppo?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOT_BoGpCn4
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    This seems like a backwards step for UKIP. Entryists are much less welcome in the Tory party and ordinary members have very little influence on policy or even selection at times.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    Tissue_Price said:

    Has Mr T's piece been plugged on here yet? It's the one where Corbyn is an emerald jewel wasp...

    The only way Labour could have eluded this fate was by avoiding the wasp in the first place. Instead, Ed Miliband had his brilliant £3 membership wheeze, allowing lots of bug-eyed Trots and angry, buzzing Marxists to get close to the vulnerable thoracic ganglia.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/want-to-know-whats-happened-to-labour-study-parasites/

    Yebbut don't the Marxists regard the Trots as right-wing reactionaries? See here for example:

    http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=leaflets&subName=display&leafletId=89
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    MarkHopkins said:

    Tissue_Price said:

    Presumably Mr Banks' new group will be called Inertia?


    Escape Velocity

    The Empire Strikes Back?
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Ironic to have a leaver suggesting that having "almost 50%" of a vote gives you a mandate...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,450
    Why all signs are pointing towards a "Hard Brexit"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/08/why-all-the-signs-point-to-work-permit-system-and-hard-brexit-as/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    As others have mentioned, this does appear to be stupid.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,407
    GIN1138 said:

    Why all signs are pointing towards a "Hard Brexit"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/08/why-all-the-signs-point-to-work-permit-system-and-hard-brexit-as/

    Indeed, with the flamin' galahs that are the Aussies prioritising the EU over us, brace yourselves.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Tissue_Price said:

    Has Mr T's piece been plugged on here yet? It's the one where Corbyn is an emerald jewel wasp...

    The only way Labour could have eluded this fate was by avoiding the wasp in the first place. Instead, Ed Miliband had his brilliant £3 membership wheeze, allowing lots of bug-eyed Trots and angry, buzzing Marxists to get close to the vulnerable thoracic ganglia.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/want-to-know-whats-happened-to-labour-study-parasites/

    Yes, it has been plugged. The problem is that SeanT needed to spend far too long telling us about parasites before he could use it as a metaphor.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited September 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    ICYMI What is Aleppo?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOT_BoGpCn4

    The best democracy in the world my are, India is better.

    Cringe overload.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    nunu said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    ICYMI What is Aleppo?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOT_BoGpCn4

    The best democracy in the world my are, India is better.
    Hang on, you think India is the "best" democracy in the world?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,407
    The Hoff is going to sort out Brexit

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/773866691549880320
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,423
    The clue's in the word "Leave". It will be a hard Brexit unless both sides decide to fudge, which I don't see many signs of.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    nunu said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    ICYMI What is Aleppo?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOT_BoGpCn4

    The best democracy in the world my are, India is better.
    Gay sex is illegal in India. Even in Putin's Russia, it is not illegal.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,239
    UKIP want to be a grown up and sensible party that effectively becomes a part of the establishment and has a genuine say in how the country is run . No doubt they see opportunities in the wasteland that was once the Labour party to achieve that. The view seems to be that, brilliant though he was in getting the party noticed in the first place, Nigel Farage is not going to achieve that.

    This means that Nigel needs a different platform if he is to retain anything like the profile he has got used to. This seems to be the solution. It certainly won't make the job of the official UKIP any easier.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Why all signs are pointing towards a "Hard Brexit"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/08/why-all-the-signs-point-to-work-permit-system-and-hard-brexit-as/

    Indeed, with the flamin' galahs that are the Aussies prioritising the EU over us, brace yourselves.
    Rio medals:

    Glorious UK = 27 gold medals (67 total)
    Aussie reprobates = 8 gold medals (29 total)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,985
    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    nunu said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    ICYMI What is Aleppo?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOT_BoGpCn4

    The best democracy in the world my are, India is better.
    Gay sex is illegal in India. Even in Putin's Russia, it is not illegal.
    Did anybody tell Keith Vaz?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    F1: Carlos Slim of Mexican billionaire fame has denied any interest in buying Force India. Indian "billionaire" Vijay Malyia is still keen to sell as it is a money sink.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,239
    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Yes, I would be astonished if there was only 250 miles of cabling in the Palace of Westminster. In an old building with makeshift and constantly updated IT I would expect at least 10x that amount. There must be miles of cabling for light switches alone.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,755
    FPT grammar schools, the situation already exists in this country whereby the most intelligent pupils are creamed off to the very best State schools. Institutions like the London Oratory, Henrietta Barnett, Dame Alice Owens are very different from "bog standard comprehensives". In fact, they're way above all but the best private schools. On the face of it, selection by examination seems more meritocratic than selection by postcode, wealth, contacts, religion, all the while pretending that no selection is going on.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    Sean_F said:

    FPT grammar schools, the situation already exists in this country whereby the most intelligent pupils are creamed off to the very best State schools. Institutions like the London Oratory, Henrietta Barnett, Dame Alice Owens are very different from "bog standard comprehensives". In fact, they're way above all but the best private schools. On the face of it, selection by examination seems more meritocratic than selection by postcode, wealth, contacts, religion, all the while pretending that no selection is going on.

    I wonder if those PBers wot are against Grammar schools are in favour of giving all pupils the same grades at GCSE and even A-level...
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,385
    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Plus "Capacity for 853 in an all-economy class configuration"

    Commons relocation, job done. "This is your speaker, erm...., speaking"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    Pro_Rata said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Plus "Capacity for 853 in an all-economy class configuration"

    Commons relocation, job done. "This is your speaker, erm...., speaking"
    May Force One!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Max, shame. Force India with a big backer right now could leap into title contention for 2018 (I'd guess the 2017 car is too far along for a cash infusion to make a difference). They're already punching above their weight.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,985
    DavidL said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Yes, I would be astonished if there was only 250 miles of cabling in the Palace of Westminster. In an old building with makeshift and constantly updated IT I would expect at least 10x that amount. There must be miles of cabling for light switches alone.
    Probably the definition of 'electrical' cabling.

    It'd be interesting to know if there are different networking systems in there: secure and insecure. Also the phone system might be interesting: I wonder if they have a Strowger switch or equivalent in there.

    Back in the early 1990s, I went to the council offices in Smedley's Hydro to see a mechanical switchboard with a friend. Allegedly all council offices had them during the Cold War, as they were more immune to EMP effects than modern kit. They got rid of it soon afterwards, but might the HoC still have similar?
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Why all signs are pointing towards a "Hard Brexit"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/08/why-all-the-signs-point-to-work-permit-system-and-hard-brexit-as/

    Indeed, with the flamin' galahs that are the Aussies prioritising the EU over us, brace yourselves.
    fpt What Australia is actually saying is that negotiations with the EU will happen earlier than negotiations with the UK, because under EU rules the latter cannot start until Brexit is complete - not that they are less important.

    And anyway one would expect a certain amount of chippiness from a country which came 10th in the Olympics medals table.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Nutters. On both sides.
    In the Newtonian world view one can always find an inertial reference frame in which the momentum vanishes---for all time (when no forces act).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,985
    Pro_Rata said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Plus "Capacity for 853 in an all-economy class configuration"

    Commons relocation, job done. "This is your speaker, erm...., speaking"
    We could have the Lords on the bottom deck and the commons on the top. Though we'd have to get rid of a few Lords first. ;)
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    edited September 2016
    JosiasJessop said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Plus "Capacity for 853 in an all-economy class configuration"

    Commons relocation, job done. "This is your speaker, erm...., speaking"
    We could have the Lords on the bottom deck and the commons on the top. Though we'd have to get rid of a few Lords first. ;)
    If there's any ex MPs around could we have an informed view on whether the Palace is actually fit for purpose?

    And let's not overstate the merits of the current buildings, it all looks a lot too like Keeble. Or Keble, even.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,985
    Ishmael_X said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Plus "Capacity for 853 in an all-economy class configuration"

    Commons relocation, job done. "This is your speaker, erm...., speaking"
    We could have the Lords on the bottom deck and the commons on the top. Though we'd have to get rid of a few Lords first. ;)
    If there's any ex MPs around could we have an informed view on whether the Palace is actually fit for purpose?

    And let's not overstate the merits of the current buildings, it all looks a lot too like Keeble.
    Keeble?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    JosiasJessop said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Plus "Capacity for 853 in an all-economy class configuration"

    Commons relocation, job done. "This is your speaker, erm...., speaking"
    We could have the Lords on the bottom deck and the commons on the top. Though we'd have to get rid of a few Lords first. ;)
    Well Lords numbers certainly need trimming.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,407
    Ishmael_X said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Plus "Capacity for 853 in an all-economy class configuration"

    Commons relocation, job done. "This is your speaker, erm...., speaking"
    We could have the Lords on the bottom deck and the commons on the top. Though we'd have to get rid of a few Lords first. ;)
    If there's any ex MPs around could we have an informed view on whether the Palace is actually fit for purpose?

    And let's not overstate the merits of the current buildings, it all looks a lot too like Keeble.
    It ain't. I've been to the Commons a few times recently, every time there was a mouse or a rat to be seen.

    Additionally I got the feeling most MPs prefer to have their offices in Portcullis House than in the Commons itself.

    Going for a wee was an interesting experience as you half expected the toilet to flush the water right back at you.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Never mind cabling, I expect that some of the original 1854 pipes for gas lighting still exist in the Palace of Westminster.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Brexit is a waste of everyone's time. Nobody knows what they want, it will take years, half the country opposes it. What's the bloody point?
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    edited September 2016
    JosiasJessop said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Plus "Capacity for 853 in an all-economy class configuration"

    Commons relocation, job done. "This is your speaker, erm...., speaking"
    We could have the Lords on the bottom deck and the commons on the top. Though we'd have to get rid of a few Lords first. ;)
    If there's any ex MPs around could we have an informed view on whether the Palace is actually fit for purpose?

    And let's not overstate the merits of the current buildings, it all looks a lot too like Keeble.
    Keeble?
    Thanks. Edit: damn, thought I had edited the offending post. Keble!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,407
    JosiasJessop said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Plus "Capacity for 853 in an all-economy class configuration"

    Commons relocation, job done. "This is your speaker, erm...., speaking"
    We could have the Lords on the bottom deck and the commons on the top. Though we'd have to get rid of a few Lords first. ;)
    If there's any ex MPs around could we have an informed view on whether the Palace is actually fit for purpose?

    And let's not overstate the merits of the current buildings, it all looks a lot too like Keeble.
    Keeble?
    Keble college, at the other place?

    https://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/styles/ow_large_feature/public/field/field_image_main/Keble.jpg?itok=AAx_EacP
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,985
    Ishmael_X said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Plus "Capacity for 853 in an all-economy class configuration"

    Commons relocation, job done. "This is your speaker, erm...., speaking"
    We could have the Lords on the bottom deck and the commons on the top. Though we'd have to get rid of a few Lords first. ;)
    If there's any ex MPs around could we have an informed view on whether the Palace is actually fit for purpose?

    (Snip)
    What is its purpose? A place for two houses to vote (which could be done electronically (*)), a seat of government, an iconic symbol of our democracy and history, a place for skulduggery and intrigue?

    (*) Can't believe I just said that. I need to wash my mouth out ...
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    A Hillary press conference!!

    Live

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/watch-live-hillary-clinton-holds-a-press-conference/article/2601256
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Erdogan's comments about a joint Turkey/US move on Raqqa are interesting.

    Does Obama maybe think a high profile ISIS win might be needed to get Hillary over the line?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,755
    Jobabob said:

    Brexit is a waste of everyone's time. Nobody knows what they want, it will take years, half the country opposes it. What's the bloody point?

    People voted for it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Have you seen the Star Trek-themed Wikipedia introductory page?:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,985
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Parly
    There is 250 miles of electrical cabling in the Palace of Westminster https://t.co/z7tIWpxPoq

    There are ~ 320 miles of cabling in an A380 plane.
    Plus "Capacity for 853 in an all-economy class configuration"

    Commons relocation, job done. "This is your speaker, erm...., speaking"
    We could have the Lords on the bottom deck and the commons on the top. Though we'd have to get rid of a few Lords first. ;)
    If there's any ex MPs around could we have an informed view on whether the Palace is actually fit for purpose?

    And let's not overstate the merits of the current buildings, it all looks a lot too like Keeble.
    Keeble?
    Keble college, at the other place?

    https://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/styles/ow_large_feature/public/field/field_image_main/Keble.jpg?itok=AAx_EacP
    Ah, thanks. A disgusting set of buildings truly befitting and reflecting that 'place' ;)

    Then again, my old school rather spoiled me:
    http://www.studentinfo.net/news/F6438.jpg
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    He's a fool if he thinks starting a new party is like Momentum. A right wing Momentum equivalent exists already across the pond and it is the Tea Party.

    What Momentum and the Tea Party have in common with their success is they got it by taking over the Labour Party and Republicans respectively. Not splitting the Greens or Libertarians.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Sean_F said:

    FPT grammar schools, the situation already exists in this country whereby the most intelligent pupils are creamed off to the very best State schools. Institutions like the London Oratory, Henrietta Barnett, Dame Alice Owens are very different from "bog standard comprehensives". In fact, they're way above all but the best private schools. On the face of it, selection by examination seems more meritocratic than selection by postcode, wealth, contacts, religion, all the while pretending that no selection is going on.

    Indeed - while the 11+ is not perfect it is by no means a bad discriminator of academic potential and despite all the claims it is relatively difficult to cram for effectively.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Tissue_Price Dement 'em?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    taffys said:

    Erdogan's comments about a joint Turkey/US move on Raqqa are interesting.

    Does Obama maybe think a high profile ISIS win might be needed to get Hillary over the line?

    Perhaps Obama thinks that defeating ISIS is worth doing anyway...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    edited September 2016
    Why can't the new right join the Conservatives and shape that? Surely a better bet than UKIP.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,407
    Jonathan said:

    Why can't the new right join the Conservatives and shape that?

    We have standards about who we let in.

    Plus they also know we have form and rules for toppling a crap leader.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT grammar schools, the situation already exists in this country whereby the most intelligent pupils are creamed off to the very best State schools. Institutions like the London Oratory, Henrietta Barnett, Dame Alice Owens are very different from "bog standard comprehensives". In fact, they're way above all but the best private schools. On the face of it, selection by examination seems more meritocratic than selection by postcode, wealth, contacts, religion, all the while pretending that no selection is going on.

    Indeed - while the 11+ is not perfect it is by no means a bad discriminator of academic potential and despite all the claims it is relatively difficult to cram for effectively.

    If that is the case, then we need to accept that kids from poorer families are intrinsically less bright than those from more affluent families.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT grammar schools, the situation already exists in this country whereby the most intelligent pupils are creamed off to the very best State schools. Institutions like the London Oratory, Henrietta Barnett, Dame Alice Owens are very different from "bog standard comprehensives". In fact, they're way above all but the best private schools. On the face of it, selection by examination seems more meritocratic than selection by postcode, wealth, contacts, religion, all the while pretending that no selection is going on.

    Indeed - while the 11+ is not perfect it is by no means a bad discriminator of academic potential and despite all the claims it is relatively difficult to cram for effectively.
    What is the sensitivity and specificity of selection by 11 plus compared say to selection at 14 for GCSE courses?

    What level of sensitivity and specificity should we insist on? Is anything less than 100% tolerable?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,894
    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT grammar schools, the situation already exists in this country whereby the most intelligent pupils are creamed off to the very best State schools. Institutions like the London Oratory, Henrietta Barnett, Dame Alice Owens are very different from "bog standard comprehensives". In fact, they're way above all but the best private schools. On the face of it, selection by examination seems more meritocratic than selection by postcode, wealth, contacts, religion, all the while pretending that no selection is going on.

    Indeed - while the 11+ is not perfect it is by no means a bad discriminator of academic potential and despite all the claims it is relatively difficult to cram for effectively.
    " relatively difficult to cram for effectively.” You will ruin the livings of a number of Kent ex-teachers.
    Granddaughter 3 attended, after being tutored ..... I know, I know ...... a practice day the other Sunday(!) . Apparently there were well over 100 children in the hall.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Well this presages a harmonious negotiation:

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/773866691549880320
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Farage's breakaway party could be called Co-ooperative Uniform New Totalitarian Socialists.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    SquareRoot said:

    Farage's breakaway party could be called Co-ooperative Uniform New Totalitarian Socialists.

    Or "Cunservatives" for short?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    11m wow

    VIDEO: @AP explains how the 11M people in the US illegally are at the heart of this election https://t.co/EJPkPtEwXb https://t.co/QBoJKUQDqU
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The European Parliament's lead Brexit negotiator has firm views on the subject:

    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-verhofstadt-eu-response-to-brexit-20160626-snap-story.html

    "For the first time in its 60-year history, the EU is faced with a country that has decided to quit the alliance — and not its smallest member. I was on the European Council for nine years, I know how tempting it will be for the leadership to delay. After all, Britain and Europe remain major trading partners. There are goods and services to be sold on both sides of the English Channel. But if we’re soft now with Britain, giving it too much wiggle room to extract favors and deals, we will only feed anti-European parties elsewhere in Europe and strengthen the belief of nationalists and populists that the European Union is a walkover."
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Well this presages a harmonious negotiation:

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/773866691549880320

    This fellow?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-eu-referendum-belgian-prime-minister-ridicules-ukip-leader-lying-in-campaign-a7107361.html

    Not a man to hide his light under a bushel...
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Farage's breakaway party could be called Co-ooperative Uniform New Totalitarian Socialists.

    Or "Cunservatives" for short?
    ;)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    AlastairMeeks said:

    The European Parliament's lead Brexit negotiator has firm views on the subject:

    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-verhofstadt-eu-response-to-brexit-20160626-snap-story.html

    "For the first time in its 60-year history, the EU is faced with a country that has decided to quit the alliance — and not its smallest member. I was on the European Council for nine years, I know how tempting it will be for the leadership to delay. After all, Britain and Europe remain major trading partners. There are goods and services to be sold on both sides of the English Channel. But if we’re soft now with Britain, giving it too much wiggle room to extract favors and deals, we will only feed anti-European parties elsewhere in Europe and strengthen the belief of nationalists and populists that the European Union is a walkover."

    I thought you were reposting Donald Tusk's remarks at first. An easy mistake to make.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    I see the Australian trade minister also hates the UK ;-)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,386
    edited September 2016
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Well this presages a harmonious negotiation:

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/773866691549880320

    He's made his views on one of the three Brexitmonkeys clear..

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/747721441991364608
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2016
    AlastairMeeks said:

    The European Parliament's lead Brexit negotiator has firm views on the subject:

    There is going to be a major power struggle within the EU on this (in fact, there was already a power struggle unrelated to the referendum). The first point to note is that the European Parlament is not going to be conducting the negotations (although they do have a veto on the final deal), so I'm not quite sure what being appointed as 'lead negotiator' actually means. Still, the parliament, and the Commission, and individual countries, all see this as an issue which they can use to grab more power. That is one of the factors which makes the outcome really quite unpredictable.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Guy Verhofstadt's first move is crystal clear in my view - no negotiations before Article 50 is triggered.
    The EU doesn't particularly need us gone in a hurry.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    AlastairMeeks said:

    The European Parliament's lead Brexit negotiator has firm views on the subject:

    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-verhofstadt-eu-response-to-brexit-20160626-snap-story.html

    "For the first time in its 60-year history, the EU is faced with a country that has decided to quit the alliance — and not its smallest member. I was on the European Council for nine years, I know how tempting it will be for the leadership to delay. After all, Britain and Europe remain major trading partners. There are goods and services to be sold on both sides of the English Channel. But if we’re soft now with Britain, giving it too much wiggle room to extract favors and deals, we will only feed anti-European parties elsewhere in Europe and strengthen the belief of nationalists and populists that the European Union is a walkover."

    The overall tenor of the piece is: the EU is crap, and how dare the UK call attention to the fact. For instance:

    "The biggest risk that the EU currently faces is that “Brexit” negotiations will now drag on for years and will be added to the long list of its never ending crises: the Greek crisis, the migration crisis, an unresolved economic crisis and constant terrorist threats. Every couple of months, the EU’s 28 national leaders gather around the negotiating table, look each other in the eye and decide not to decide."

    and

    "Not only have we failed to clean up our banks — nine years after the outbreak of the financial crisis — and neglected to come up with decent plan to reboot our economy, the EU is paralyzed by a deep cultural unrest."

    and

    "But the United States is running out of patience: Europe has become a troublemaker, unable to act and more likely to get in the way when things get serious than to make any meaningful contribution. Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, who took the lead in shaping Ukraine’s transition government, was the clearest in her rejection of Europe’s non-existing foreign policy."

    I realise he has only just been appointed, but he must now be wishing he hadn't said a lot of that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,562
    Theuniondivvie said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Well this presages a harmonious negotiation:

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/773866691549880320

    He's made his views on one of the three Brexitmonkeys clear..

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/747721441991364608
    Sorry Leavers, but nobody said it was going to be easy.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2016
    I've just laid trump @ 3.6


    Right now my book is;
    Trump +-0
    Everyone Else +24

    I also backed Clinton in Texas @ 16/1
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2016
    I am wondering if the activities of the Bitter Enders and the appointment of the Hof may make some value on A50 being implemented sooner rather than later. It may be more than the May-bees can tolerate.

    25/1 on betfair exch for this year.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Why can't the new right join the Conservatives and shape that?

    We have standards about who we let in.

    Plus they also know we have form and rules for toppling a crap leader.
    Quite. We had a new leader in place barely three weeks after the previous one resigned, whereas Labour and UKIP are taking three months over it!
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    rottenborough said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Well this presages a harmonious negotiation:

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/773866691549880320

    He's made his views on one of the three Brexitmonkeys clear..

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/747721441991364608
    Sorry Leavers, but nobody said it was going to be easy.
    He seems to be a lightweight twit. "17 million Britains" - there is only one of them, and the stuff about Boris and England and Wales is just gibberish - the sort of thing which makes it look, to someone who knows nothing about UK politics, as if he understands UK politics. If this is the best the EU can come up with, the correct response is a massive calm.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,755
    rottenborough said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Well this presages a harmonious negotiation:

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/773866691549880320

    He's made his views on one of the three Brexitmonkeys clear..

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/747721441991364608
    Sorry Leavers, but nobody said it was going to be easy.
    Few things worth doing are easy.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Ishmael_X I assume he has been appointed precisely because of the things that he has said. It's a marker that the European Parliament intends to play hardball, so far as it can (and @Richard_Nabavi is right to draw attention to the power struggle coming up).
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,807
    rottenborough said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Well this presages a harmonious negotiation:

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/773866691549880320

    He's made his views on one of the three Brexitmonkeys clear..

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/747721441991364608
    Sorry Leavers, but nobody said it was going to be easy.
    You think the UK is a supplicant?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,562
    Pong said:

    I've just laid trump @ 3.6


    Right now my book is;
    Trump +-0
    Everyone Else +24

    I also backed Clinton in Texas @ 16/1

    Texas means landslide presumably?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @foxinsoxuk

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/770650428518309888
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,562
    geoffw said:

    rottenborough said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Well this presages a harmonious negotiation:

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/773866691549880320

    He's made his views on one of the three Brexitmonkeys clear..

    https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/747721441991364608
    Sorry Leavers, but nobody said it was going to be easy.
    You think the UK is a supplicant?
    We'll see.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930
    Pulpstar said:

    Guy Verhofstadt's first move is crystal clear in my view - no negotiations before Article 50 is triggered.
    The EU doesn't particularly need us gone in a hurry.

    If Mrs May comes to an accommodation with the heads of France (post election), Germany, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, and Sweden, then it is largely irrelevant what Mr Verhofstadt says.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,919
    foxinsoxuk said:

    I am wondering if the activities of the Bitter Enders and the appointment of the Hof may make some value on A50 being implemented sooner rather than later. It may be more than the May-bees can tolerate.

    25/1 on betfair exch for this year.

    There may be arbitrage opportunities betting on a second Scottish independence referendum as it will be difficult to avoid if Article 50 is triggered prematurely.
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    Verhofstadt's a good guy and a proper liberal. He'll punch above the parliament's weight in the negotiations. He is however a ' Bird of Bright Plumage ' a Eurocrat straight from central casting as far as the Sun/Mail will be concerned. So he's not been appointed to aid the negotiations. As the Parliament can only " consent " or withhold consent to the A50 deal and as nuclear options tend to be threatened but never used I conclude he's been appointed to case trouble and have fun at our expense. However it will all ultimately be settled at heads of government level.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Pong said:


    I also backed Clinton in Texas @ 16/1

    Where ?
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    PlatoSaid said:

    11m wow

    VIDEO: @AP explains how the 11M people in the US illegally are at the heart of this election https://t.co/EJPkPtEwXb https://t.co/QBoJKUQDqU

    It's a lot more than that. At least 30M, some say even 60M.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2016
    rottenborough said:

    Pong said:

    I've just laid trump @ 3.6


    Right now my book is;
    Trump +-0
    Everyone Else +24

    I also backed Clinton in Texas @ 16/1

    Texas means landslide presumably?
    There aren't many options to punt on a landslide - I'm having to make the most of the markets available.

    Possibly better than my 16/1 would be the 8/1 on GOP <180 EV's, for anyone with an account with either unibet or her clones;

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2016/republican-college-votes
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Pong said:

    Possibly better than my 16/1 would be the 8/1 on GOP <180 EV's, for anyone with an account with either unibet or her clones;

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2016/republican-college-votes</p&gt;

    Yep, it was 10/1 a couple of days ago. A bit of a snip, I think.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''However it will all ultimately be settled at heads of government level. ''

    Absolutely. And many of those heads are either changing or under increasing pressure from parties concerned about the dreadful state of Europe.

    Still, watching bitter remainers wet their pants over the mandate-less Hof is funny.
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    Verhofstadt's also right. The equilibrium point in all of this is for there to be a durable Brexit deal because it's everyone's interests. That deal will not be generous or quick as it's not in 27 of the 28 participants interests for it to be. As this is politics events or dynamics may mean we don't reach the natural equilibrium point at the first go. It's why we can all bet on it.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    A reminder on Verhofstadt's position pre-(very pre!) EUref.

    http://www.politico.eu/article/an-eu-for-full-members-only/
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,064
    YellowSubmarine said:

    Verhofstadt's also right. The equilibrium point in all of this is for there to be a durable Brexit deal because it's everyone's interests. That deal will not be generous or quick as it's not in 27 of the 28 participants interests for it to be. As this is politics events or dynamics may mean we don't reach the natural equilibrium point at the first go. It's why we can all bet on it.

    Indeed, the EU itself could be regarded as a participant as well. If the EU makes it easy for us to leave, it will set a precedent so it's in their interests to make it difficult for us "pour ne pas encourager les autres" if you like.

    With the likes of Wilders and Marine le Pen and perhaps Frauke Petry as well all agitating for their own referenda, the "model" for withdrawal we follow will be closely examined right across the EU (and indeed beyond).

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''As this is politics events or dynamics may mean we don't reach the natural equilibrium point at the first go. It's why we can all bet on it. ''

    The equilibrium is changing by the day though. And not in favour of the eurocrats.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    YellowSubmarine said:

    Verhofstadt's also right. The equilibrium point in all of this is for there to be a durable Brexit deal because it's everyone's interests. That deal will not be generous or quick as it's not in 27 of the 28 participants interests for it to be. As this is politics events or dynamics may mean we don't reach the natural equilibrium point at the first go. It's why we can all bet on it.

    Sounds like hard Brexit to me.

    If the Australians don't think it worth talking until after Brexit, why should anyone else?

    Best get on with it.
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    I think describing the UK as a " supplicant " in the negotiations is far too strong. However as all of the other 27 know we took this decision ( a) by accident ( b) with no plan ( c) at the behest of 17.1m voters who where trying to achieve a myriad of contradictory outcomes. It's a deeply suboptimal starting point for our negotiations. It's why Cameron left A50 to his successor and why May immeadiately bought her self 6 months.
This discussion has been closed.