Thanks Kieran, good article on presentation of polling questions, always worth remembering when looking at 'headline' figures from someone with skin in the game.
People don't understand the single market. It's almost pointless asking them questions about it. Look at the difficulties people have distinguishing 'access' and 'membership'.
Let us face it, Mr. M, a great part of the electorate are absolutely clueless about just about everything and especially anything involving numbers (about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds, which means that any discussion involving percentages goes straight over their heads).
Yet we are all supposed to pretend that universal suffrage is such a spiffing idea.
"about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds"
So much for the present comprehensive education system.
Since very few people do any serious maths after GCSE, and many don't even get that far, it is hardly surprising that mid teenage represents peak maths. I have worked with numbers for most of my career but there are nevertheless aspects of maths that I could do then, but not now.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
I would think it's more likely to be something to do with how frequently you post and how many "Off Topic" and SPAM notifications you have?
Perhaps what continental Europeans went through in the 20th century makes them feel that an unelected Belgian (or Pole or Irishman) making decisions on weedkiller is an entirely acceptable price to pay to prevent it happening again.
I agree about history having a marking.
For some countries it's about economic issues, in some it's social issues like history.
Eastern Europe with the exception of Greece and ex-Yugoslavia it's only about the money, they don't like europe because of memories of it's soviet counterpart, you can see the euroskeptic divide right through the former East German border, but they like the money.
Ex-yugoslavia is in to protect them from the serbs.
Greece is in to protect them from the turks.
Iberia is clearly in only for the money they get.
Germany is in it for economic dominance, as usual.
France is in it for political dominance, as usual.
Belgium for the perks of having the capital.
The Netherlands to re-export german stuff.
The baltics to protect them from the russians.
The scandinavians for a market for their high quality stuff, though they don't produce anymore.
Ireland to protect them from the english.
But no one knows why Italy is in it.
Italy is in out of the hope that Brussels is less corrupt and more competent than Rome (edit/ which I guess means that they are in to protect them from themselves, nicely completing your list with a flourish)
Kinda of an oxymoron, since Brussels these days is definitely making things worse for Italy not better.
If there is a major EU financial crisis before we leave I think it is pretty much certain that Italy will be at the centre of it. Political crises are more likely to arise on the election of some fascist somewhere.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
Completely off topic. If inflation hits 3%, that's worth about £48.6bn p.a. off the national debt.
If inflation hits 2% it will be a success for the government.
And to think 40 years ago an increase in inflation would have been deemed a disaster. We live in a different world.
Not so good for the deficit, though. At least in the short term.
Worrying about the deficit? That is so 2010-2015, grandad.
OK so you have gone full Japanese. I wonder how the story ends?
Like Japan.
If 0% interest rates, countless Q. Easings and explosive budget deficits didn't work for Japan it (surprise) won't work here or anywhere.
Interest rates that are too low to provide an incentive for investment, free money for big corporations that gives them no incentive to invest, and explosive deficits just to delay the inevitable reforms.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Is this a politicalbetting forum or a quiddich match?
;-)
JKR Rowling doesn't understand sport. Far too many points for the snitch. That and the ridiculous generosity of Dumbledore with housepoints at the end of year feast ruin it for me. It loses all realism...
Completely off topic. If inflation hits 3%, that's worth about £48.6bn p.a. off the national debt.
If inflation hits 2% it will be a success for the government.
And to think 40 years ago an increase in inflation would have been deemed a disaster. We live in a different world.
Not so good for the deficit, though. At least in the short term.
Worrying about the deficit? That is so 2010-2015, grandad.
OK so you have gone full Japanese. I wonder how the story ends?
Like Japan.
If 0% interest rates, countless Q. Easings and explosive budget deficits didn't work for Japan it (surprise) won't work here or anywhere.
Interest rates that are too low to provide an incentive for investment, free money for big corporations that gives them no incentive to invest, and explosive deficits just to delay the inevitable reforms.
I agree. But Japan has been the never ending story.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
I'm 12, which I'm fairly happy with... At least I'm not negative.
Thanks Kieran, good article on presentation of polling questions, always worth remembering when looking at 'headline' figures from someone with skin in the game.
People don't understand the single market. It's almost pointless asking them questions about it. Look at the difficulties people have distinguishing 'access' and 'membership'.
Let us face it, Mr. M, a great part of the electorate are absolutely clueless about just about everything and especially anything involving numbers (about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds, which means that any discussion involving percentages goes straight over their heads).
Yet we are all supposed to pretend that universal suffrage is such a spiffing idea.
"about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds"
So much for the present comprehensive education system.
Since very few people do any serious maths after GCSE, and many don't even get that far, it is hardly surprising that mid teenage represents peak maths. I have worked with numbers for most of my career but there are nevertheless aspects of maths that I could do then, but not now.
I was helping my 13 year old son with his maths last night doing the areas of kites, parallelograms, rhomboids and sundry other quadrilateral shapes. If I ever knew that stuff I had long forgotten.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Is this a politicalbetting forum or a quiddich match?
;-)
JKR Rowling doesn't understand sport. Far too many points for the snitch. That and the ridiculous generosity of Dumbledore with housepoints at the end of year feast ruin it for me. It loses all realism...
Yeah, Dumbledore and Quidditch both promote the message you can laze about 99% of the time, so long as you do something well for the final 1% you win and everyone else's effort was pointless. A classic chosen one ethos denigrating those who follow rules and work hard.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
With a score in the 20s we could also be in with a shout to be an England Test Opener.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
Simply because for some reason your posts cannot actually be flagged as spam?
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Is this a politicalbetting forum or a quiddich match?
;-)
JKR Rowling doesn't understand sport. Far too many points for the snitch. That and the ridiculous generosity of Dumbledore with housepoints at the end of year feast ruin it for me. It loses all realism...
Yeah, Dumbledore and Quidditch both promote the message you can laze about 99% of the time, so long as you do something well for the final 1% you win and everyone else's effort was pointless. A classic chosen one ethos denigrating those who follow rules and work hard.
Try telling Big Sam that there is anything wrong with that.
Completely off topic. If inflation hits 3%, that's worth about £48.6bn p.a. off the national debt.
If inflation hits 2% it will be a success for the government.
And to think 40 years ago an increase in inflation would have been deemed a disaster. We live in a different world.
Not so good for the deficit, though. At least in the short term.
Worrying about the deficit? That is so 2010-2015, grandad.
OK so you have gone full Japanese. I wonder how the story ends?
Like Japan.
If 0% interest rates, countless Q. Easings and explosive budget deficits didn't work for Japan it (surprise) won't work here or anywhere.
Interest rates that are too low to provide an incentive for investment, free money for big corporations that gives them no incentive to invest, and explosive deficits just to delay the inevitable reforms.
I agree. But Japan has been the never ending story.
Agree, Japan has been a never ending story of decline.
Thanks Kieran, good article on presentation of polling questions, always worth remembering when looking at 'headline' figures from someone with skin in the game.
People don't understand the single market. It's almost pointless asking them questions about it. Look at the difficulties people have distinguishing 'access' and 'membership'.
Let us face it, Mr. M, a great part of the electorate are absolutely clueless about just about everything and especially anything involving numbers (about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds, which means that any discussion involving percentages goes straight over their heads).
Yet we are all supposed to pretend that universal suffrage is such a spiffing idea.
Indeed Mr L. as I wrote this week, even the illustrious brains trust of PB, surely some of the UK's finest minds have, on occasion, found it difficult to cudgel some of the concepts into some semblance of rationality and order.
Since you don't need great vision and depth of understanding in order to be a candidate, or even be elected, it would be a funny world if the criteria for being allowed to make a choice were the more stringent?
I think my point was more that even the people on this board are not immune to the Dunning-Kruger effect when dealing with matters outside their competence.
Given what we collectively know, nobody would make the grade of 'informed voter'.
Completely off topic. If inflation hits 3%, that's worth about £48.6bn p.a. off the national debt.
If inflation hits 2% it will be a success for the government.
And to think 40 years ago an increase in inflation would have been deemed a disaster. We live in a different world.
Not so good for the deficit, though. At least in the short term.
Worrying about the deficit? That is so 2010-2015, grandad.
OK so you have gone full Japanese. I wonder how the story ends?
Like Japan.
If 0% interest rates, countless Q. Easings and explosive budget deficits didn't work for Japan it (surprise) won't work here or anywhere.
Interest rates that are too low to provide an incentive for investment, free money for big corporations that gives them no incentive to invest, and explosive deficits just to delay the inevitable reforms.
I agree. But Japan has been the never ending story.
Agree, Japan has been a never ending story of decline.
But nevertheless a great investment these last few years. The companies aren't in bad shape, even as the government is beyond bust.
Keiran makes a brave stab at arguing away what voters voted for, but the fact is plain: they were told, in clear terms, by pretty much every well-qualified expert, both domestic and foreign, that there would be a significant economic hit to Brexit. The Leave side argued the case, using immigration as their principal (and certainly most effective) argument. Leave won. So I don't think Keiran is right to say 'We don’t know what voters think ‘control’ means or what level of economic burden they are willing to bear to achieve it.' On the contrary, we know exactly what they decided, having been told the likely economic consequences. The May government needs, first and foremost, to respect the decision, and then to get the best economic deal that is compatible with it.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
With a score in the 20s we could also be in with a shout to be an England Test Opener.
Talking of test openers - I think the lad has real talent and he should go.
An excellent article by Keiran Pedley. Two points in particular:
1) what if the public want the unattainable? Should the government still try for it or should they aim for more attainable goals?
2) what if the public change their minds later? The government would presumably prefer to target the public's final choice rather than their first one.
1) Try and if they fail, say we tried, we'll have to go for the attainable options
That risks complete failure, especially with a ticking clock.
But what is complete failure Alastair? If our trade relationships with the EU on day 1 post Brexit are basically WTO rules in the absence of any agreement would that be complete failure? And if so what would the consequences be?
I am slowly coming around to the idea that it might be easier to negotiate with the EU once we have left rather than before. I think that they have a somewhat distorted view of their own importance to us and that it will be very difficult to negotiate with them until we show we really don't care that much. Certainly, I think our government has to go into the talks with this as a possibility that they can live with and to plan accordingly. If they don't we won't get anywhere.
I regard hard Brexit as the default outcome. The time available, the lack of clarity or competence on both sides and the restiveness of the populations all point in that direction.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
Simply because for some reason your posts cannot actually be flagged as spam?
Thanks Kieran, good article on presentation of polling questions, always worth remembering when looking at 'headline' figures from someone with skin in the game.
People don't understand the single market. It's almost pointless asking them questions about it. Look at the difficulties people have distinguishing 'access' and 'membership'.
Let us face it, Mr. M, a great part of the electorate are absolutely clueless about just about everything and especially anything involving numbers (about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds, which means that any discussion involving percentages goes straight over their heads).
Yet we are all supposed to pretend that universal suffrage is such a spiffing idea.
"about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds"
So much for the present comprehensive education system.
Since very few people do any serious maths after GCSE, and many don't even get that far, it is hardly surprising that mid teenage represents peak maths. I have worked with numbers for most of my career but there are nevertheless aspects of maths that I could do then, but not now.
I was helping my 13 year old son with his maths last night doing the areas of kites, parallelograms, rhomboids and sundry other quadrilateral shapes. If I ever knew that stuff I had long forgotten.
My daughter begins her first OU Maths course in a couple of weeks. I'm feeling uncharacteristically intimidated - she's nominated me as tutor.
Is Keiran Pedley/Mike Smithson's weekly TV show all over now ..... finished?
PS Others have mentioned it, but have we ever seen the result of PB.com's EU Referendum competition, including the name of the winner, entitled to the Wm. Hill cash prize?
Now about that report on Antisemitism....I presume Hug a Hitler Ken will be off the naughty step soon too.
The slogan is kinda of ironic....Straight talking honest politics.
From what I've read on the subject the apologists take seems to be "it's not anti-semitism — which is obviously bad, as are most -isms — because it's all true". They aren't just spouting a load of anti-semitic nonsense to offend Jewish people, like some NF neanderthal, they actually believe this crap. So in part Labour, a small part admittedly, is now a party of genuine anti-semites in a way we haven't seen in a long time.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
With a score in the 20s we could also be in with a shout to be an England Test Opener.
Talking of test openers - I think the lad has real talent and he should go.
Is Keiran Pedley/Mike Smithson's weekly TV show all over now ..... finished?
PS Others have mentioned it, but have we ever seen the result of PB.com's EU Referendum competition, including the name of the winner, entitled to the Wm. Hill cash prize?
No Keiran's been on holiday, and Mike's on holiday too, hence the lack of show.
I plan to publish the competition results some time this week
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
Simply because for some reason your posts cannot actually be flagged as spam?
Yup, one of the perks of being an administrator.
You also have to wonder, given the range of discussion material on here, what on earth one has to talk about to be flagged off-topic.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
Simply because for some reason your posts cannot actually be flagged as spam?
Yup, one of the perks of being an administrator.
You also have to wonder, given the range of discussion material on here, what on earth one has to talk about to be flagged off-topic.
It's usually someone trying to hit 'quote', hitting 'off-topic' and forgetting. Here, OT stands for On Topic.
1) Try and if they fail, say we tried, we'll have to go for the attainable options
That risks complete failure, especially with a ticking clock.
But what is complete failure Alastair? If our trade relationships with the EU on day 1 post Brexit are basically WTO rules in the absence of any agreement would that be complete failure? And if so what would the consequences be?
I am slowly coming around to the idea that it might be easier to negotiate with the EU once we have left rather than before. I think that they have a somewhat distorted view of their own importance to us and that it will be very difficult to negotiate with them until we show we really don't care that much. Certainly, I think our government has to go into the talks with this as a possibility that they can live with and to plan accordingly. If they don't we won't get anywhere.
I regard hard Brexit as the default outcome. The time available, the lack of clarity or competence on both sides and the restiveness of the populations all point in that direction.
I increasingly agree. And there will come a point all too soon when even a hard Brexit is better than never ending uncertainty.
As I say once we are out it will so clearly be in both parties' interests that sector by sector deals will come into place.
In Blairs day ministers toughed it out. I remember it being remarked on here the rarity of a resignation despite everything that went on. There used to be a saying that if it lasted a few days you were fine if it ran a week or more prepare to fall on the sword.
Not sure with this bunch it that still applies anymore to any of them....
Is Keiran Pedley/Mike Smithson's weekly TV show all over now ..... finished?
PS Others have mentioned it, but have we ever seen the result of PB.com's EU Referendum competition, including the name of the winner, entitled to the Wm. Hill cash prize?
No Keiran's been on holiday, and Mike's on holiday too, hence the lack of show.
I plan to publish the competition results some time this week
Thanks Kieran, good article on presentation of polling questions, always worth remembering when looking at 'headline' figures from someone with skin in the game.
People don't understand the single market. It's almost pointless asking them questions about it. Look at the difficulties people have distinguishing 'access' and 'membership'.
Let us face it, Mr. M, a great part of the electorate are absolutely clueless about just about everything and especially anything involving numbers (about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds, which means that any discussion involving percentages goes straight over their heads).
Yet we are all supposed to pretend that universal suffrage is such a spiffing idea.
"about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds"
So much for the present comprehensive education system.
Since very few people do any serious maths after GCSE, and many don't even get that far, it is hardly surprising that mid teenage represents peak maths. I have worked with numbers for most of my career but there are nevertheless aspects of maths that I could do then, but not now.
I wouldn't expect many adults to be be able to do calculus or complex analysis or even elementary number theory. I am not sure I could myself these days despite being fiendishly proficient at all three once upon a time. However that is not the point in hand.
How many adults are sufficiently numerate that they could follow a discussion that involved basic numerical stuff that one would find in the newspapers or from the lips of politicians? The answer according to government figures is about 60% . That is to say 40% of the electorate, more than enough to get a government voted in on their own, haven't got the foggiest idea what those news reports and politicians' speeches actually mean.
Thanks Kieran, good article on presentation of polling questions, always worth remembering when looking at 'headline' figures from someone with skin in the game.
People don't understand the single market. It's almost pointless asking them questions about it. Look at the difficulties people have distinguishing 'access' and 'membership'.
Let us face it, Mr. M, a great part of the electorate are absolutely clueless about just about everything and especially anything involving numbers (about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds, which means that any discussion involving percentages goes straight over their heads).
Yet we are all supposed to pretend that universal suffrage is such a spiffing idea.
"about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds"
So much for the present comprehensive education system.
Since very few people do any serious maths after GCSE, and many don't even get that far, it is hardly surprising that mid teenage represents peak maths. I have worked with numbers for most of my career but there are nevertheless aspects of maths that I could do then, but not now.
I was helping my 13 year old son with his maths last night doing the areas of kites, parallelograms, rhomboids and sundry other quadrilateral shapes. If I ever knew that stuff I had long forgotten.
My daughter begins her first OU Maths course in a couple of weeks. I'm feeling uncharacteristically intimidated - she's nominated me as tutor.
Gosh, that would be intimidating. I enjoyed learning (relearning) my more basic maths. It had an elegance about it that I did not appreciate or see when at school.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
Simply because for some reason your posts cannot actually be flagged as spam?
Yup, one of the perks of being an administrator.
You also have to wonder, given the range of discussion material on here, what on earth one has to talk about to be flagged off-topic.
Can I ask..what exactly is Keith Vaz alleged to have done wrong?
While in a position of significant authority leading a review into prostitution laws he is alleged to have used the services of prostitutes. And, I think, encouraged the use of illegal drugs.
But I see we're at the 'what's x done wrong' part of the cycle then.
The Guardian have this one right I think
It is true that prostitution is not illegal and politicians have a right to a private life. But, however much one sympathises with Vaz, it is undeniable that he is compromised by his special position as the chair of a commons committee tasked with making recommendations about prostitution.
Elected politicians, people responsible for making laws, must live by different standards to those who vote for them. As plenty of MPs have discovered in the past, they have to pay a price for the privileges they enjoy.
Part of that price is the need to sacrifice an absolute right to privacy
Is Keiran Pedley/Mike Smithson's weekly TV show all over now ..... finished?
PS Others have mentioned it, but have we ever seen the result of PB.com's EU Referendum competition, including the name of the winner, entitled to the Wm. Hill cash prize?
No Keiran's been on holiday, and Mike's on holiday too, hence the lack of show.
I plan to publish the competition results some time this week
Oh good ...... just 11 weeks after the event!
Well you know, not much has happened in those eleven weeks.
In Blairs day ministers toughed it out. I remember it being remarked on here the rarity of a resignation despite everything that went on. There used to be a saying that if it lasted a few days you were fine if it ran a week or more prepare to fall on the sword.
Not sure with this bunch it that still applies anymore to any of them....
I remember there was this minster and the story of the dodgy passports which weren't enough to get him to resign....Jim somebody or other.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
Simply because for some reason your posts cannot actually be flagged as spam?
Yup, one of the perks of being an administrator.
You also have to wonder, given the range of discussion material on here, what on earth one has to talk about to be flagged off-topic.
To be fair I think most is accidental. It's like the vanilla logo in the same location / on top of the "more comments"
Quite often you get vanilla by accident. Must do wonders for their click count though but couldn't we put the Vanilla logo on the other side and leave comments on its own??
Sharper divide than I would have thought. Medium hard Brexit a more likely result than Medium soft Brexit.
James seems to think we're leaving the single market and the cutoms union?
What has become clear in the last week or so, is that the UK is not going to end up staying in the single market—in either the EU or the EEA. Davis’s appearance today also suggested that the UK would leave the customs union when it left the EU. However, it is also becoming apparent that the UK relationship with the EU on matters such as security means that post-Brexit, the UK and the EU will have more than just a trading relationship.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
Simply because for some reason your posts cannot actually be flagged as spam?
Yup, one of the perks of being an administrator.
You also have to wonder, given the range of discussion material on here, what on earth one has to talk about to be flagged off-topic.
What we need is the return of the "like" button.
It was like a more genteel twittermob.
The most likes I have ever received was pondering whether there was a difference between pantry and larder, and which was posher sounding. No need to revisit it now, but a real momentous event nevertheless.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Is this a politicalbetting forum or a quiddich match?
;-)
JKR Rowling doesn't understand sport. Far too many points for the snitch. That and the ridiculous generosity of Dumbledore with housepoints at the end of year feast ruin it for me. It loses all realism...
The story ought to have ended with Hermione being revealed as a Death Eater, murdering Harry and Ron, and marrying Voldemort.
I don't think there's an inverse correlation between access to the single market and control over immigration. You don't in other words get an equal amount of extra control over immigration for whatever you give up on the single market. The single market is somewhat binary. It's a multilateral construct as the core of the EU. You're either signed up or you're not. Now the UK will get some kind of bilateral agreement with the EU that will likely include a reciprocal arrangement on immigration. The government may be thinking they're not getting much on market access so they might as well push harder on immigration. In that case it will be a rather hard Brexit. It will be softer if both sides are prepared to fudge. There are some clues today that Theresa May would like to fudge. I'm not sure the EU side will be in a mood to do so. The EU are masters of fudge for internal agreements but the the UK is now outside the club and the EU tends to be much tougher on external parties.
Can I ask..what exactly is Keith Vaz alleged to have done wrong?
Where do you want to start? But I presume you are being deliberately ignorant.
Not really. I've not been following the ins and outs, but I'm genuinely interested to know what he's done that's supposed to be immoral or unethical or whatever (any more than, for example, JJohn Whittingdale and the Dominatrix).
Thanks Kieran, good article on presentation of polling questions, always worth remembering when looking at 'headline' figures from someone with skin in the game.
People don't understand the single market. It's almost pointless asking them questions about it. Look at the difficulties people have distinguishing 'access' and 'membership'.
Let us face it, Mr. M, a great part of the electorate are absolutely clueless about just about everything and especially anything involving numbers (about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds, which means that any discussion involving percentages goes straight over their heads).
Yet we are all supposed to pretend that universal suffrage is such a spiffing idea.
"about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds"
So much for the present comprehensive education system.
Since very few people do any serious maths after GCSE, and many don't even get that far, it is hardly surprising that mid teenage represents peak maths. I have worked with numbers for most of my career but there are nevertheless aspects of maths that I could do then, but not now.
I wouldn't expect many adults to be be able to do calculus or complex analysis or even elementary number theory. I am not sure I could myself these days despite being fiendishly proficient at all three once upon a time. However that is not the point in hand.
How many adults are sufficiently numerate that they could follow a discussion that involved basic numerical stuff that one would find in the newspapers or from the lips of politicians? The answer according to government figures is about 60% . That is to say 40% of the electorate, more than enough to get a government voted in on their own, haven't got the foggiest idea what those news reports and politicians' speeches actually mean.
But that means that 10% of the Scottish population do understand the numbers and still vote SNP. How weird is that?
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Is this a politicalbetting forum or a quiddich match?
;-)
JKR Rowling doesn't understand sport. Far too many points for the snitch. That and the ridiculous generosity of Dumbledore with housepoints at the end of year feast ruin it for me. It loses all realism...
The story ought to have ended with Hermione being revealed as a Death Eater, murdering Harry and Ron, and marrying Voldemort.
Pretty sure there will be fan fiction of exactly that.
Can I ask..what exactly is Keith Vaz alleged to have done wrong?
You really don't want to know.
But this is why he should be forced out as an MP.
When asked by one of the men whether he wanted to use a condom this time, Mr Vaz – who last year fronted a safe sex campaign in his constituency – said “No”.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
Simply because for some reason your posts cannot actually be flagged as spam?
Yup, one of the perks of being an administrator.
You also have to wonder, given the range of discussion material on here, what on earth one has to talk about to be flagged off-topic.
Can I ask..what exactly is Keith Vaz alleged to have done wrong?
You really don't want to know.
But this is why he should be forced out as an MP.
When asked by one of the men whether he wanted to use a condom this time, Mr Vaz – who last year fronted a safe sex campaign in his constituency – said “No”.
Thing is do we think he is the only MP to be seeing prostitutes? Or who ever has seen a prostitute? If so, sack him/let him resign. If not then not. Every MP brings some kind of baggage with them either now or in a past life which might collide with their political responsibilities I mean a standard question on Pienaar's show is about the use of drugs.
Can I ask..what exactly is Keith Vaz alleged to have done wrong?
Where do you want to start? But I presume you are being deliberately ignorant.
Not really. I've not been following the ins and outs, but I'm genuinely interested to know what he's done that's supposed to be immoral or unethical or whatever (any more than, for example, JJohn Whittingdale and the Dominatrix).
Offering to buy drugs, alleged misappropriating charity funds, hypocritical positions public vs private...I could continue...
Can I ask..what exactly is Keith Vaz alleged to have done wrong?
While in a position of significant authority leading a review into prostitution laws he is alleged to have used the services of prostitutes. And, I think, encouraged the use of illegal drugs.
But I see we're at the 'what's x done wrong' part of the cycle then.
The Guardian have this one right I think
It is true that prostitution is not illegal and politicians have a right to a private life. But, however much one sympathises with Vaz, it is undeniable that he is compromised by his special position as the chair of a commons committee tasked with making recommendations about prostitution.
Elected politicians, people responsible for making laws, must live by different standards to those who vote for them. As plenty of MPs have discovered in the past, they have to pay a price for the privileges they enjoy.
Part of that price is the need to sacrifice an absolute right to privacy
I don't actually have anything against the press publishing the story, but what seems really odd to me is the aghast reaction to it. I suppose I can see the argument that it's probably not appropriate for him to lead this review of prostitution laws given the "conflict of interest", but otherwise, I'm not really understanding why it's supposed to be a massive scandal which "destroys the public's trust in politicians" or whatever.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Maybe you could try being a little nicer to your fellow PB'ers?
You get points for being nice? So why I am I stuck in the paltry 20s? Have I wasted courtesy on this band of filth mongers and smut peddlers?
All the best PBers are in the 20s.
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
Simply because for some reason your posts cannot actually be flagged as spam?
Yup, one of the perks of being an administrator.
You also have to wonder, given the range of discussion material on here, what on earth one has to talk about to be flagged off-topic.
I've just looked at my point score on the vanilla thing (I didn't realise you get points...who gives them and for what?).....my score is-2. It seems a travesty- for indicating that Brexit people are ridiculous and for taking a stand against YUP's and silly smiley faces, I deserve some points. At least 23, maybe one or two, maybe more, by my reckoning.
Is this a politicalbetting forum or a quiddich match?
;-)
JKR Rowling doesn't understand sport. Far too many points for the snitch. That and the ridiculous generosity of Dumbledore with housepoints at the end of year feast ruin it for me. It loses all realism...
The story ought to have ended with Hermione being revealed as a Death Eater, murdering Harry and Ron, and marrying Voldemort.
Pretty sure there will be fan fiction of exactly that.
I've written something along those lines. It got a very angry review.
Thing is do we think he is the only MP to be seeing prostitutes? Or who ever has seen a prostitute? If so, sack him/let him resign. If not then not. Every MP brings some kind of baggage with them either now or in a past life which might collide with their political responsibilities I mean a standard question on Pienaar's show is about the use of drugs.
It is his position as Chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee that is the issue, given the nature of his activities on it and off it and his publicly professed positions through the former vs the latter.
I'd be quite happy to vote for an adulterer who has taken drugs if they did a good, uncorruptable job, and probably many other vices besides. But the specifics of his professional interests is what makes the story in the public interest and not just an indulgence in prurient curiosity.
An excellent article by Keiran Pedley. Two points in particular:
1) what if the public want the unattainable? Should the government still try for it or should they aim for more attainable goals?
2) what if the public change their minds later? The government would presumably prefer to target the public's final choice rather than their first one.
1) Try and if they fail, say we tried, we'll have to go for the attainable options
That risks complete failure, especially with a ticking clock.
But what is complete failure Alastair? If our trade relationships with the EU on day 1 post Brexit are basically WTO rules in the absence of any agreement would that be complete failure? And if so what would the consequences be?
I am slowly coming around to the idea that it might be easier to negotiate with the EU once we have left rather than before. I think that they have a somewhat distorted view of their own importance to us and that it will be very difficult to negotiate with them until we show we really don't care that much. Certainly, I think our government has to go into the talks with this as a possibility that they can live with and to plan accordingly. If they don't we won't get anywhere.
The Single Market means it's as easy to do business in Berlin as it is Birmingham. That's not just about tariffs. In fact for many tariffs have very little to do with it. Once we're out of it, there's no negotiating our way back in - either in whole or in part. I am not close to being convinced that Boris, David and Liam actually know what the Single Market is.
Can I ask..what exactly is Keith Vaz alleged to have done wrong?
You really don't want to know.
But this is why he should be forced out as an MP.
When asked by one of the men whether he wanted to use a condom this time, Mr Vaz – who last year fronted a safe sex campaign in his constituency – said “No”.
Can I ask..what exactly is Keith Vaz alleged to have done wrong?
While in a position of significant authority leading a review into prostitution laws he is alleged to have used the services of prostitutes. And, I think, encouraged the use of illegal drugs.
But I see we're at the 'what's x done wrong' part of the cycle then.
The Guardian have this one right I think
It is true that prostitution is not illegal and politicians have a right to a private life. But, however much one sympathises with Vaz, it is undeniable that he is compromised by his special position as the chair of a commons committee tasked with making recommendations about prostitution.
Elected politicians, people responsible for making laws, must live by different standards to those who vote for them. As plenty of MPs have discovered in the past, they have to pay a price for the privileges they enjoy.
Part of that price is the need to sacrifice an absolute right to privacy
I don't actually have anything against the press publishing the story, but what seems really odd to me is the aghast reaction to it. I suppose I can see the argument that it's probably not appropriate for him to lead this review of prostitution laws given the "conflict of interest", but otherwise, I'm not really understanding why it's supposed to be a massive scandal which "destroys the public's trust in politicians" or whatever.
Well it was obviously done covertly. His position especially as chair of the home affairs might potentially leave him open to blackmail etc. Not saying he would be compliant but it's an added risk which need not be there.
Extracts from the night where Mr Vaz vowed to “get this party started” highlight how the former Europe Minister directed events - and was in complete control as be ordered the prostitutes what to do.
Many details are too graphic to publish in a family newspaper.
Can I ask..what exactly is Keith Vaz alleged to have done wrong?
While in a position of significant authority leading a review into prostitution laws he is alleged to have used the services of prostitutes. And, I think, encouraged the use of illegal drugs.
But I see we're at the 'what's x done wrong' part of the cycle then.
The Guardian have this one right I think
It is true that prostitution is not illegal and politicians have a right to a private life. But, however much one sympathises with Vaz, it is undeniable that he is compromised by his special position as the chair of a commons committee tasked with making recommendations about prostitution.
Elected politicians, people responsible for making laws, must live by different standards to those who vote for them. As plenty of MPs have discovered in the past, they have to pay a price for the privileges they enjoy.
Part of that price is the need to sacrifice an absolute right to privacy
but otherwise, I'm not really understanding why it's supposed to be a massive scandal which "destroys the public's trust in politicians" or whatever.
That's just a phrase people bandy about so much it has no meaning. Even the word scandal is meaningless, along with ones like u-turn, so overused by adversaries by their presence alone you cannot assume either has actually occurred. Nevertheless, their presence does not negate that it can indeed be such a thing, and so the language may get overblown (unless much darker stuff comes to light), but can still hit on a true point*.
Sharper divide than I would have thought. Medium hard Brexit a more likely result than Medium soft Brexit.
James seems to think we're leaving the single market and the cutoms union?
What has become clear in the last week or so, is that the UK is not going to end up staying in the single market—in either the EU or the EEA. Davis’s appearance today also suggested that the UK would leave the customs union when it left the EU. However, it is also becoming apparent that the UK relationship with the EU on matters such as security means that post-Brexit, the UK and the EU will have more than just a trading relationship.
Can I ask..what exactly is Keith Vaz alleged to have done wrong?
You really don't want to know.
But this is why he should be forced out as an MP.
When asked by one of the men whether he wanted to use a condom this time, Mr Vaz – who last year fronted a safe sex campaign in his constituency – said “No”.
Thanks Kieran, good article on presentation of polling questions, always worth remembering when looking at 'headline' figures from someone with skin in the game.
People don't understand the single market. It's almost pointless asking them questions about it. Look at the difficulties people have distinguishing 'access' and 'membership'.
Let us face it, Mr. M, a great part of the electorate are absolutely clueless about just about everything and especially anything involving numbers (about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds, which means that any discussion involving percentages goes straight over their heads).
Yet we are all supposed to pretend that universal suffrage is such a spiffing idea.
"about 40% of adults have less than the numerical ability expected of 14 year olds"
So much for the present comprehensive education system.
Since very few people do any serious maths after GCSE, and many don't even get that far, it is hardly surprising that mid teenage represents peak maths. I have worked with numbers for most of my career but there are nevertheless aspects of maths that I could do then, but not now.
It does make me ask the questuion "the 40 percent of adults who have less than the numerical ability expected of a 14 year old"
What numerical ability was expected of them when they were 14 ?
Can I ask..what exactly is Keith Vaz alleged to have done wrong?
You really don't want to know.
But this is why he should be forced out as an MP.
When asked by one of the men whether he wanted to use a condom this time, Mr Vaz – who last year fronted a safe sex campaign in his constituency – said “No”.
"“He was coming in regularly and when we asked where was his booking he would just say ‘Have you spoken to Mr Sanger?’
A bar bill for the evening of 4 June shows the MP had a dinner of lemon sole, a J&B Rare whisky and bottle of still water for £54.95. At the foot of the receipt a note reads: “As per Mr J. Sanger.”"
"“He was coming in regularly and when we asked where was his booking he would just say ‘Have you spoken to Mr Sanger?’
A bar bill for the evening of 4 June shows the MP had a dinner of lemon sole, a J&B Rare whisky and bottle of still water for £54.95. At the foot of the receipt a note reads: “As per Mr J. Sanger.”"
Awkward....
"bottle of still water for £54.95" - Crickey London prices really are out of hand.
This has probably already been covered but I've only just noticed it, but this plan to revert to an elected shadow cabinet? Does that make a split even less likely, as no matter how much they oppose Corbyn people can claim to be serving the party and not his leadership of it.
This has probably already been covered but I've only just noticed it, but this plan to revert to an elected shadow cabinet? Does that make a split even less likely, as no matter how much they oppose Corbyn people can claim to be serving the party and not his leadership of it.
"“He was coming in regularly and when we asked where was his booking he would just say ‘Have you spoken to Mr Sanger?’
A bar bill for the evening of 4 June shows the MP had a dinner of lemon sole, a J&B Rare whisky and bottle of still water for £54.95. At the foot of the receipt a note reads: “As per Mr J. Sanger.”"
Awkward....
"bottle of still water for £54.95" - Crickey London prices really are out of hand.
He puts whiskey in the fridge FFS.
Mind you one has to ask if the rent boys bother to clean behind the fridge?
"“He was coming in regularly and when we asked where was his booking he would just say ‘Have you spoken to Mr Sanger?’
A bar bill for the evening of 4 June shows the MP had a dinner of lemon sole, a J&B Rare whisky and bottle of still water for £54.95. At the foot of the receipt a note reads: “As per Mr J. Sanger.”"
Awkward....
"bottle of still water for £54.95" - Crickey London prices really are out of hand.
He puts whiskey in the fridge FFS.
Mind you one has to ask if the rent boys bother to clean behind the fridge?
Well thats it...Whiskey in the fridge....he must be removed from parliament for that.
People don't understand the single market. It's almost pointless asking them questions about it. Look at the difficulties people have distinguishing 'access' and 'membership'.
I don't think the author of the poll understands what a single market is either. It isn't a sensible question to ask. I think he took the throw away remark trotted out by the Germans: No cherry picking, you don't get the single market unless you accept the conditions including freedom of movement. He then concocted a question: how many cherries are you prepared to concede?
Can I ask..what exactly is Keith Vaz alleged to have done wrong?
You really don't want to know.
But this is why he should be forced out as an MP.
When asked by one of the men whether he wanted to use a condom this time, Mr Vaz – who last year fronted a safe sex campaign in his constituency – said “No”.
Anyone who is prepared to have unprotected sex with people who are apparently sex workers, is unfit to hold public office.
It's like playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun.
And then go home to the wife? Ugh.
I'm the most socially liberal person in the world, it's not a moral thing.
COVER YOUR STUMP BEFORE YOU HUMP, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE SEX WORKERS
Maybe the risk of contracting AIDS was part of the thrill.
How the hell is that a thrill?
I thought the most thrilling part of coitus was climaxing. Can't beat that.
That reminds me of that recent story about these Russian roulette parties where you know in advance one participant is HIV+. Unbelievable but true, apparently. Just shows how attitudes have changed since the incurable plague fear swept through the late 80s.
As I understand it, Keith Vaz has already issued legal letters to a fellow MP, if he can go after a colleague, I'm sure he won't hesitate to go after people on websites
As I understand it, Keith Vaz has already issued legal letters to a fellow MP, if he can go after a colleague, I'm sure he won't hesitate to go after people on websites
I'm not a mod, but a reminder that Vaz is verboten, his lawyers are watching...
Is this correct? If so, I missed this announcement.
Yeah, I posted on the earlier thread.
Legal letters are flying about. All posts now have to come with a link from a reputable UK news organisation.
Ok ...
Married man plays away from home is one story. Horrible for wife and family and arguably in the public interest. The justification for this can be a bit thin at times.
It's what else the newspapers have, which is not published but where some pretty obvious clues are in front of your eyes, which is usually of more interest. The reaction of other politicians - if the "scandal" is about a politician - can also give you a clue.
As I understand it, Keith Vaz has already issued legal letters to a fellow MP.
I saw that, quite incredible.
Worst written legal letter I have ever seen. Quite remarkable.
A well known website about betting on politics once received a legal letter threatening to report them to the gambling commission and have their gambling licence revoked.
Comments
Incidentally I have a score of 21.
If 0% interest rates, countless Q. Easings and explosive budget deficits didn't work for Japan it (surprise) won't work here or anywhere.
Interest rates that are too low to provide an incentive for investment, free money for big corporations that gives them no incentive to invest, and explosive deficits just to delay the inevitable reforms.
;-)
JKR Rowling doesn't understand sport. Far too many points for the snitch. That and the ridiculous generosity of Dumbledore with housepoints at the end of year feast ruin it for me. It loses all realism...
Given what we collectively know, nobody would make the grade of 'informed voter'.
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/772909028850692096
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/37281623
PS Others have mentioned it, but have we ever seen the result of PB.com's EU Referendum competition, including the name of the winner, entitled to the Wm. Hill cash prize?
I plan to publish the competition results some time this week
As I say once we are out it will so clearly be in both parties' interests that sector by sector deals will come into place.
Not sure with this bunch it that still applies anymore to any of them....
How many adults are sufficiently numerate that they could follow a discussion that involved basic numerical stuff that one would find in the newspapers or from the lips of politicians? The answer according to government figures is about 60% . That is to say 40% of the electorate, more than enough to get a government voted in on their own, haven't got the foggiest idea what those news reports and politicians' speeches actually mean.
It was like a more genteel twittermob.
But I see we're at the 'what's x done wrong' part of the cycle then.
The Guardian have this one right I think
It is true that prostitution is not illegal and politicians have a right to a private life. But, however much one sympathises with Vaz, it is undeniable that he is compromised by his special position as the chair of a commons committee tasked with making recommendations about prostitution.
Elected politicians, people responsible for making laws, must live by different standards to those who vote for them. As plenty of MPs have discovered in the past, they have to pay a price for the privileges they enjoy.
Part of that price is the need to sacrifice an absolute right to privacy
https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/sep/05/why-the-sunday-mirror-was-justified-in-exposing-keith-vaz?CMP=share_btn_tw
Quite often you get vanilla by accident. Must do wonders for their click count though but couldn't we put the Vanilla logo on the other side and leave comments on its own??
https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/772907668101095424
Close your eyes , clear your mind and just for a moment Imagine he was a Tory MP sitting as chair of the home affairs committee..........
But this is why he should be forced out as an MP.
When asked by one of the men whether he wanted to use a condom this time, Mr Vaz – who last year fronted a safe sex campaign in his constituency – said “No”.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/married-mp-keith-vaz-tells-8763805
Anyone who is prepared to have unprotected sex with people who are apparently sex workers, is unfit to hold public office.
It's like playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun.
If so, sack him/let him resign.
If not then not.
Every MP brings some kind of baggage with them either now or in a past life which might collide with their political responsibilities I mean a standard question on Pienaar's show is about the use of drugs.
JimKeith a liar lair pants on fire...https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/772913870373543936
I'd be quite happy to vote for an adulterer who has taken drugs if they did a good, uncorruptable job, and probably many other vices besides. But the specifics of his professional interests is what makes the story in the public interest and not just an indulgence in prurient curiosity.
COVER YOUR STUMP BEFORE YOU HUMP, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE SEX WORKERS
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/keith-vaz-tapes-prove-not-8774666
also..
"He jokingly urged them to rebuke the fourth man who never arrived and whom the Mirror is not naming,"
I wonder, I wonder, I wonder..
Mind you I would say he's not the only one.
Extracts from the night where Mr Vaz vowed to “get this party started” highlight how the former Europe Minister directed events - and was in complete control as be ordered the prostitutes what to do.
Many details are too graphic to publish in a family newspaper.
*I call it a PB type point.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1731834/under-fire-keith-vaz-caught-on-cctv-meeting-younger-man-at-london-hotel-as-he-battles-rent-boy-scandal/
What numerical ability was expected of them when they were 14 ?
I thought the most thrilling part of coitus was climaxing. Can't beat that.
"“He was coming in regularly and when we asked where was his booking he would just say ‘Have you spoken to Mr Sanger?’
A bar bill for the evening of 4 June shows the MP had a dinner of lemon sole, a J&B Rare whisky and bottle of still water for £54.95. At the foot of the receipt a note reads: “As per Mr J. Sanger.”"
"bottle of still water for £54.95" - Crickey London prices really are out of hand.
Mind you one has to ask if the rent boys bother to clean behind the fridge?
Legal letters are flying about. All posts now have to come with a link from a reputable UK news organisation.
It's what else the newspapers have, which is not published but where some pretty obvious clues are in front of your eyes, which is usually of more interest. The reaction of other politicians - if the "scandal" is about a politician - can also give you a clue.