All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
Douglas Carswell has again taken the opportunity to distance himself from his former leader about this.
The dilemma of Llama's cat (Schrodingers cat with a twist and for real):
Old cats go into very deep sleep and according to Herself it is very dangerous to wake them in case the shock gives them a heart attack from which they die. My cat is on the sofa and doesn't seem to have moved since he had his lunchtime prawns. My eyes are poor but I cannot see any sign of life, I am not sure if he is alive or has passed through the great cat flap. It is now his teatime.
Do I gently stroke his whiskers and so risk killing him or shall I let him sleep on even though he may actually be dead?
A mirror in front of his nose will mist if he is breathing. It is the best way to detect faint breathing.
Best not wake him though. If he was hungry he would let you know. Whether resting in peace or just resting peacefully no need to disturb him.
Jean-Claude Juncker, the head of the European Commission, has told Theresa May that she should not be holding free trade discussions with other nations while Britain is still a member of the EU.
Mrs May held informal discussions about future free trade deals after Brexit with the US, Australia and India at the G20 summit.
Mr Juncker said: "I don't like the idea that member states of the EU, including those who are still a member state of the European Union, are negotiating free trade agreements," he said on Sunday.
Such discussions were an "exclusive matter" for the European Union on behalf of its members and "we are sticking to it", he told reporters.
The dilemma of Llama's cat (Schrodingers cat with a twist and for real):
Old cats go into very deep sleep and according to Herself it is very dangerous to wake them in case the shock gives them a heart attack from which they die. My cat is on the sofa and doesn't seem to have moved since he had his lunchtime prawns. My eyes are poor but I cannot see any sign of life, I am not sure if he is alive or has passed through the great cat flap. It is now his teatime.
Do I gently stroke his whiskers and so risk killing him or shall I let him sleep on even though he may actually be dead?
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
Douglas Carswell has again taken the opportunity to distance himself from his former leader about this.
@carlgardner: Did Davis just say he intends the UK to stay in the European Arrest Warrant system?
@IanDunt: Yvette Cooper, also brilliant: Have they even looked at what home affairs issues will be? Has he decided if UK will be staying in Europol?
@JohnRentoul: Yvette Cooper gets a straight answer from David Davis: yes the Govt wants to remain part of EU home affairs cooperation.
The European Arrest Warrant is a mess. We should play no part in it.
"Last month, the award-winning chief correspondent of Sky News, Stuart Ramsay, reported on alleged gun-running in Romania. It was a shocking story and received much attention...
The country’s Directorate for Combatting Terrorism and Organised Crime asserts that Ramsay and his crew faked the whole report. But this is not the usual tale of allegation followed by denial. The Romanian authorities responded to the story with a formal request to the UK for legal assistance into a criminal investigation. The Sky journalists have been charged with spreading false information to the detriment of Romania’s national security...
I understand from highly placed sources that this is merely the first step and that the Romanians intend issuing a European Arrest Warrant for the extradition of Ramsay and his film crew. Under the terms of the agreement, there are only two grounds for denying that extradition if the paperwork is in order. A court must find that the defendant’s human rights will be breached or that the issue of the warrant is politically motivated."
Some of us on here did predict that there would be no post-Brexit house-price slump. Rather, that the fall in the pound would see foreign buyers piling in at bargain prices. And lo, it came to pass:
Pretty shoddy reporting from BBC. One Chinese lady in Colindale does not a "spending spree" make.
The "news" as that they reported it at all. Doesn't fit with the narrative....
Well speaking from West London (just along from Hammersmith), the market here has utterly dried up. Nothing shifting, no-one looking. Estate agents filled with houses and polyester suits, but no buyers. My neighbour went from a couple of viewings a day on her house to one a fortnight, if that.
Not good for me then, but I've been talking to agencies who seem to be quite bullish. Foxtons gave me a huge valuation.
Foxtons always give huge valuations. If something appears to be too good to be true.......
Jean-Claude Juncker, the head of the European Commission, has told Theresa May that she should not be holding free trade discussions with other nations while Britain is still a member of the EU.
What an idiot he is. Cameron was right to try to block his appointment.
Quite apart from anything else, it is entirely in the EU's interests for our exit to be as smooth and non-disruptive as possible. They should be encouraging us to talk as soon as possible both with the EU and with other countries. Any Article 50 turbulence is going to hit them as well as us.
Yep, it's only sensible to have these sort of arrangements in place for when we do leave the EU, since we can't negotiate a trade deal with the EU while negotiating our exit (as I understand it?)
I think this is actually an appropriate time for a Nelsonian blind eye to some of the EC's strictures. We're not going to cripple our national interest to flatter the vanity of a jumped up ex-Luxembourg town councillor.
Why not? We crippled our national interest to wound the vanity of a jumped up old Etonian PR man after all.
Crippled our national interest? Starting to sound like the discredited remain campaign now!
I cannot believe that our national interest required the creation of a prolonged period of economic uncertainlty, over and above the natural state of things.
That doesn't mean it has "crippled" it.
Well, it seems unlikely, in the medium term to help.
Yes, but I didn't say that, I was merely pointing out the hyperbole from williamglenn!
Which was uncalled for as I was merely echoing the hyperbole from John_M.
Jean-Claude Juncker, the head of the European Commission, has told Theresa May that she should not be holding free trade discussions with other nations while Britain is still a member of the EU.
What an idiot he is. Cameron was right to try to block his appointment.
Quite apart from anything else, it is entirely in the EU's interests for our exit to be as smooth and non-disruptive as possible. They should be encouraging us to talk as soon as possible both with the EU and with other countries. Any Article 50 turbulence is going to hit them as well as us.
Yep, it's only sensible to have these sort of arrangements in place for when we do leave the EU, since we can't negotiate a trade deal with the EU while negotiating our exit (as I understand it?)
I think this is actually an appropriate time for a Nelsonian blind eye to some of the EC's strictures. We're not going to cripple our national interest to flatter the vanity of a jumped up ex-Luxembourg town councillor.
Why not? We crippled our national interest to wound the vanity of a jumped up old Etonian PR man after all.
Crippled our national interest? Starting to sound like the discredited remain campaign now!
I cannot believe that our national interest required the creation of a prolonged period of economic uncertainlty, over and above the natural state of things.
That doesn't mean it has "crippled" it.
Well, it seems unlikely, in the medium term to help.
Yes, but I didn't say that, I was merely pointing out the hyperbole from williamglenn!
Which was uncalled for as I was merely echoing the hyperbole from John_M.
Ah, that will teach me for not reading the full thread history! My apologies
Some of us on here did predict that there would be no post-Brexit house-price slump. Rather, that the fall in the pound would see foreign buyers piling in at bargain prices. And lo, it came to pass:
Pretty shoddy reporting from BBC. One Chinese lady in Colindale does not a "spending spree" make.
The "news" as that they reported it at all. Doesn't fit with the narrative....
Well speaking from West London (just along from Hammersmith), the market here has utterly dried up. Nothing shifting, no-one looking. Estate agents filled with houses and polyester suits, but no buyers. My neighbour went from a couple of viewings a day on her house to one a fortnight, if that.
Not good for me then, but I've been talking to agencies who seem to be quite bullish. Foxtons gave me a huge valuation.
Foxtons always give huge valuations. If something appears to be too good to be true.......
Are you then locked into an exclusive contract, even if it turns out the 'valuation' was ridiculous?
@carlgardner: Did Davis just say he intends the UK to stay in the European Arrest Warrant system?
@IanDunt: Yvette Cooper, also brilliant: Have they even looked at what home affairs issues will be? Has he decided if UK will be staying in Europol?
@JohnRentoul: Yvette Cooper gets a straight answer from David Davis: yes the Govt wants to remain part of EU home affairs cooperation.
The European Arrest Warrant is a mess. We should play no part in it.
"Last month, the award-winning chief correspondent of Sky News, Stuart Ramsay, reported on alleged gun-running in Romania. It was a shocking story and received much attention...
The country’s Directorate for Combatting Terrorism and Organised Crime asserts that Ramsay and his crew faked the whole report. But this is not the usual tale of allegation followed by denial. The Romanian authorities responded to the story with a formal request to the UK for legal assistance into a criminal investigation. The Sky journalists have been charged with spreading false information to the detriment of Romania’s national security...
I understand from highly placed sources that this is merely the first step and that the Romanians intend issuing a European Arrest Warrant for the extradition of Ramsay and his film crew. Under the terms of the agreement, there are only two grounds for denying that extradition if the paperwork is in order. A court must find that the defendant’s human rights will be breached or that the issue of the warrant is politically motivated."
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
May has also refused to rule out some UK contributions to the EU budget continuing today and has said there will be no extra £100m for the NHS. She is basically throwing the Vote Leave platform in the bin
Some of us on here did predict that there would be no post-Brexit house-price slump. Rather, that the fall in the pound would see foreign buyers piling in at bargain prices. And lo, it came to pass:
Pretty shoddy reporting from BBC. One Chinese lady in Colindale does not a "spending spree" make.
The "news" as that they reported it at all. Doesn't fit with the narrative....
Well speaking from West London (just along from Hammersmith), the market here has utterly dried up. Nothing shifting, no-one looking. Estate agents filled with houses and polyester suits, but no buyers. My neighbour went from a couple of viewings a day on her house to one a fortnight, if that.
Not good for me then, but I've been talking to agencies who seem to be quite bullish. Foxtons gave me a huge valuation.
Foxtons always give huge valuations. If something appears to be too good to be true.......
Are you then locked into an exclusive contract, even if it turns out the 'valuation' was ridiculous?
To date in London this has usually been a hypothetical question. Outrageous as those valuations usually are, they have mostly been achieved, if not exceeded.
Foxtons is a company you wouldn't want to buy from, but would happily commission to sell for you.
Jean-Claude Juncker, the head of the European Commission, has told Theresa May that she should not be holding free trade discussions with other nations while Britain is still a member of the EU.
What an idiot he is. Cameron was right to try to block his appointment.
Quite apart from anything else, it is entirely in the EU's interests for our exit to be as smooth and non-disruptive as possible. They should be encouraging us to talk as soon as possible both with the EU and with other countries. Any Article 50 turbulence is going to hit them as well as us.
Yep, it's only sensible to have these sort of arrangements in place for when we do leave the EU, since we can't negotiate a trade deal with the EU while negotiating our exit (as I understand it?)
I think this is actually an appropriate time for a Nelsonian blind eye to some of the EC's strictures. We're not going to cripple our national interest to flatter the vanity of a jumped up ex-Luxembourg town councillor.
Why not? We crippled our national interest to wound the vanity of a jumped up old Etonian PR man after all.
Crippled our national interest? Starting to sound like the discredited remain campaign now!
I cannot believe that our national interest required the creation of a prolonged period of economic uncertainlty, over and above the natural state of things.
That doesn't mean it has "crippled" it.
Well, it seems unlikely, in the medium term to help.
Yes, but I didn't say that, I was merely pointing out the hyperbole from williamglenn!
Which was uncalled for as I was merely echoing the hyperbole from John_M.
Nothing hyperbolic in my post. I really don't care much for Mr Juncker's wounded amour propre. In my view, the only reason he's still in post is due to Mr Rajoy's travails.
I'm hoping we can pursue amicable negotiations with the Council, with the least amount of input from the Commission.
Some of us on here did predict that there would be no post-Brexit house-price slump. Rather, that the fall in the pound would see foreign buyers piling in at bargain prices. And lo, it came to pass:
Pretty shoddy reporting from BBC. One Chinese lady in Colindale does not a "spending spree" make.
The "news" as that they reported it at all. Doesn't fit with the narrative....
Well speaking from West London (just along from Hammersmith), the market here has utterly dried up. Nothing shifting, no-one looking. Estate agents filled with houses and polyester suits, but no buyers. My neighbour went from a couple of viewings a day on her house to one a fortnight, if that.
Not good for me then, but I've been talking to agencies who seem to be quite bullish. Foxtons gave me a huge valuation.
Foxtons always give huge valuations. If something appears to be too good to be true.......
@carlgardner: Did Davis just say he intends the UK to stay in the European Arrest Warrant system?
@IanDunt: Yvette Cooper, also brilliant: Have they even looked at what home affairs issues will be? Has he decided if UK will be staying in Europol?
@JohnRentoul: Yvette Cooper gets a straight answer from David Davis: yes the Govt wants to remain part of EU home affairs cooperation.
The European Arrest Warrant is a mess. We should play no part in it.
"Last month, the award-winning chief correspondent of Sky News, Stuart Ramsay, reported on alleged gun-running in Romania. It was a shocking story and received much attention...
The country’s Directorate for Combatting Terrorism and Organised Crime asserts that Ramsay and his crew faked the whole report. But this is not the usual tale of allegation followed by denial. The Romanian authorities responded to the story with a formal request to the UK for legal assistance into a criminal investigation. The Sky journalists have been charged with spreading false information to the detriment of Romania’s national security...
I understand from highly placed sources that this is merely the first step and that the Romanians intend issuing a European Arrest Warrant for the extradition of Ramsay and his film crew. Under the terms of the agreement, there are only two grounds for denying that extradition if the paperwork is in order. A court must find that the defendant’s human rights will be breached or that the issue of the warrant is politically motivated."
The dilemma of Llama's cat (Schrodingers cat with a twist and for real):
Old cats go into very deep sleep and according to Herself it is very dangerous to wake them in case the shock gives them a heart attack from which they die. My cat is on the sofa and doesn't seem to have moved since he had his lunchtime prawns. My eyes are poor but I cannot see any sign of life, I am not sure if he is alive or has passed through the great cat flap. It is now his teatime.
Do I gently stroke his whiskers and so risk killing him or shall I let him sleep on even though he may actually be dead?
Try putting some food into his bowl nearby. In my experience, cats will leap over high buildings when whey hear/smell their food.
@carlgardner: Did Davis just say he intends the UK to stay in the European Arrest Warrant system?
@IanDunt: Yvette Cooper, also brilliant: Have they even looked at what home affairs issues will be? Has he decided if UK will be staying in Europol?
@JohnRentoul: Yvette Cooper gets a straight answer from David Davis: yes the Govt wants to remain part of EU home affairs cooperation.
The European Arrest Warrant is a mess. We should play no part in it.
"Last month, the award-winning chief correspondent of Sky News, Stuart Ramsay, reported on alleged gun-running in Romania. It was a shocking story and received much attention...
The country’s Directorate for Combatting Terrorism and Organised Crime asserts that Ramsay and his crew faked the whole report. But this is not the usual tale of allegation followed by denial. The Romanian authorities responded to the story with a formal request to the UK for legal assistance into a criminal investigation. The Sky journalists have been charged with spreading false information to the detriment of Romania’s national security...
I understand from highly placed sources that this is merely the first step and that the Romanians intend issuing a European Arrest Warrant for the extradition of Ramsay and his film crew. Under the terms of the agreement, there are only two grounds for denying that extradition if the paperwork is in order. A court must find that the defendant’s human rights will be breached or that the issue of the warrant is politically motivated."
I understand from highly placed sources that this is merely the first step and that the Romanians intend issuing a European Arrest Warrant for the extradition of Ramsay and his film crew. Under the terms of the agreement, there are only two grounds for denying that extradition if the paperwork is in order. A court must find that the defendant’s human rights will be breached or that the issue of the warrant is politically motivated."
Sounds like the warrant is politically motivated, although proving it would be tricky I guess.
Interesting the civil libertarian standard-bearer David Davis confirms we hope to say within the EAW.
I appreciate it's hugely helpful for anti-terrorism reasons, but I'd prefer a British judge to consider the evidence and confirm first whether I can be shipped to Bucharest on potentially trumped up charges.
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
I guess it is just politics. The job of the leader of the opposition is to scrutinse the PM and government, as they have gone AWOL I guess someone has to do it...
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
May has also refused to rule out some UK contributions to the EU budget continuing today and has said there will be no extra £100m for the NHS. She is basically throwing the Vote Leave platform in the bin
The dilemma of Llama's cat (Schrodingers cat with a twist and for real):
Old cats go into very deep sleep and according to Herself it is very dangerous to wake them in case the shock gives them a heart attack from which they die. My cat is on the sofa and doesn't seem to have moved since he had his lunchtime prawns. My eyes are poor but I cannot see any sign of life, I am not sure if he is alive or has passed through the great cat flap. It is now his teatime.
Do I gently stroke his whiskers and so risk killing him or shall I let him sleep on even though he may actually be dead?
Stick a spare prawn under his nose.
But not a cucumber. No sirreeee.....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsysNml153M
They think cucumbers are large snakes or something.
Some of us on here did predict that there would be no post-Brexit house-price slump. Rather, that the fall in the pound would see foreign buyers piling in at bargain prices. And lo, it came to pass:
Pretty shoddy reporting from BBC. One Chinese lady in Colindale does not a "spending spree" make.
The "news" as that they reported it at all. Doesn't fit with the narrative....
Well speaking from West London (just along from Hammersmith), the market here has utterly dried up. Nothing shifting, no-one looking. Estate agents filled with houses and polyester suits, but no buyers. My neighbour went from a couple of viewings a day on her house to one a fortnight, if that.
Not good for me then, but I've been talking to agencies who seem to be quite bullish. Foxtons gave me a huge valuation.
Foxtons always give huge valuations. If something appears to be too good to be true.......
Are you then locked into an exclusive contract, even if it turns out the 'valuation' was ridiculous?
To date in London this has usually been a hypothetical question. Outrageous as those valuations usually are, they have mostly been achieved, if not exceeded.
Foxtons is a company you wouldn't want to buy from, but would happily commission to sell for you.
Only if they actually get offers at their valuations. And within a reasonable time frame. From buyers who actually go through with the transaction. I'm not sure - based solely on anecdotes from friends trying to sell houses - that the market is necessarily as hot as some are claiming.
My thanks to those who offered advice. I found a mirror to hold by his nose, as per Dr Sox, and whilst I was trying to work out where in the bundle of curled fur his nose actually was and how I could get a mirror close to it I saw an ear flicker. So the old boy is still alive and just not ready for his tea yet (age and too many prawns at lunchtime I suppose).
Phew, thanks to all.
@Pulpstar Simba's 6.8kg seems an awful lot. The chap across the road has a Siamese that got into that range (mainly I think because at least two of the neighbours were also feeding his cat) and it has cost him an arm and a leg on Vet's bills.
My thanks to those who offered advice. I found a mirror to hold by his nose, as per Dr Sox, and whilst I was trying to work out where in the bundle of curled fur his nose actually was and how I could get a mirror close to it I saw an ear flicker. So the old boy is still alive and just not ready for his tea yet (age and too many prawns at lunchtime I suppose).
Phew, thanks to all.
@Pulpstar Simba's 6.8kg seems an awful lot. The chap across the road has a Siamese that got into that range (mainly I think because at least two of the neighbours were also feeding his cat) and it has cost him an arm and a leg on Vet's bills.
A nation breathes easy..
very happy the old fellow still has some life in him.
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
Whether it would or not is irrelevant to Farage types - what is important is creating a pressured situation where anything is called backsliding, so that, hopefully, as little of what they don't want gets through as possible. Pretty standard fanatic behaviour, the other sides will have to work harder if they think other approaches are best.
Some of us on here did predict that there would be no post-Brexit house-price slump. Rather, that the fall in the pound would see foreign buyers piling in at bargain prices. And lo, it came to pass:
Pretty shoddy reporting from BBC. One Chinese lady in Colindale does not a "spending spree" make.
The "news" as that they reported it at all. Doesn't fit with the narrative....
Well speaking from West London (just along from Hammersmith), the market here has utterly dried up. Nothing shifting, no-one looking. Estate agents filled with houses and polyester suits, but no buyers. My neighbour went from a couple of viewings a day on her house to one a fortnight, if that.
Not good for me then, but I've been talking to agencies who seem to be quite bullish. Foxtons gave me a huge valuation.
Foxtons always give huge valuations. If something appears to be too good to be true.......
Are you then locked into an exclusive contract, even if it turns out the 'valuation' was ridiculous?
To date in London this has usually been a hypothetical question. Outrageous as those valuations usually are, they have mostly been achieved, if not exceeded.
Foxtons is a company you wouldn't want to buy from, but would happily commission to sell for you.
Only if they actually get offers at their valuations. And within a reasonable time frame. From buyers who actually go through with the transaction. I'm not sure - based solely on anecdotes from friends trying to sell houses - that the market is necessarily as hot as some are claiming.
I'm sure it's calmed, but so far it has been a truism that no one ever lost money on the London property market.
Foxtons are pushy, brash, and effective. Or so I have found.
Today? No idea but I'd rather have them on my side if I was a seller.
Evening all. I have to say the Brexit debate is intriguing. I have to say that although I was in favour of Remain and voted that way in June, now the decision has been made I'm erring on the side of a slightly harder Brexit. I certainly see no reason why we'd want to be part of anything not directly connected with trade. Also surely the key thing is access to the single market which doesn't necessarily require being within it and subject to all its nitpicking rules.
As for immigration I have never understood the obsession with points based systems as the acme of control. As far as I can see the only nations that employ them and that are indeed held as exemplars have proportionally far higher migration.
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
May has also refused to rule out some UK contributions to the EU budget continuing today and has said there will be no extra £100m for the NHS. She is basically throwing the Vote Leave platform in the bin
Apart from the whole leaving the EU thing
Well clearly BREXIT will happen but the land of milk and honey the Leave campaign promised is now for the birds!
Evening all. I have to say the Brexit debate is intriguing. I have to say that although I was in favour of Remain and voted that way in June, now the decision has been made I'm erring on the side of a slightly harder Brexit. I certainly see no reason why we'd want to be part of anything not directly connected with trade. Also surely the key thing is access to the single market which doesn't necessarily require being within it and subject to all its nitpicking rules.
As for immigration I have never understood the obsession with points based systems as the acme of control. As far as I can see the only nations that employ them and that are indeed held as exemplars have proportionally far higher migration.
Well Australia and Canada have a points based system I think.
In America most are now fervently against it because Trump is in favour of it.
My thanks to those who offered advice. I found a mirror to hold by his nose, as per Dr Sox, and whilst I was trying to work out where in the bundle of curled fur his nose actually was and how I could get a mirror close to it I saw an ear flicker. So the old boy is still alive and just not ready for his tea yet (age and too many prawns at lunchtime I suppose). [snip]
A nation breathes easy..
very happy the old fellow still has some life in him.
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
May has also refused to rule out some UK contributions to the EU budget continuing today and has said there will be no extra £100m for the NHS. She is basically throwing the Vote Leave platform in the bin
Apart from the whole leaving the EU thing
Well clearly BREXIT will happen but the land of milk and honey the Leave campaign promised is now for the birds!
My thanks to those who offered advice. I found a mirror to hold by his nose, as per Dr Sox, and whilst I was trying to work out where in the bundle of curled fur his nose actually was and how I could get a mirror close to it I saw an ear flicker. So the old boy is still alive and just not ready for his tea yet (age and too many prawns at lunchtime I suppose).
Phew, thanks to all.
@Pulpstar Simba's 6.8kg seems an awful lot. The chap across the road has a Siamese that got into that range (mainly I think because at least two of the neighbours were also feeding his cat) and it has cost him an arm and a leg on Vet's bills.
Hooray!
How old is Thomas? My last cat got to 20, which I thought was pretty impressive.
Evening all. I have to say the Brexit debate is intriguing. I have to say that although I was in favour of Remain and voted that way in June, now the decision has been made I'm erring on the side of a slightly harder Brexit. I certainly see no reason why we'd want to be part of anything not directly connected with trade. Also surely the key thing is access to the single market which doesn't necessarily require being within it and subject to all its nitpicking rules.
As for immigration I have never understood the obsession with points based systems as the acme of control. As far as I can see the only nations that employ them and that are indeed held as exemplars have proportionally far higher migration.
As made clear yesterday if Japanese factories are to stay in the UK we have to have some single market membership
Evening all. I have to say the Brexit debate is intriguing. I have to say that although I was in favour of Remain and voted that way in June, now the decision has been made I'm erring on the side of a slightly harder Brexit. I certainly see no reason why we'd want to be part of anything not directly connected with trade. Also surely the key thing is access to the single market which doesn't necessarily require being within it and subject to all its nitpicking rules.
As for immigration I have never understood the obsession with points based systems as the acme of control. As far as I can see the only nations that employ them and that are indeed held as exemplars have proportionally far higher migration.
The nitpicking rules are necessary, and are mostly requirements on vendors. Things like electrical safety, approved materials in the BoM, safe disposal. For agricultural products, things like approved pesticides/herbicides, hormones, antibiotics, GMO etc. We've seen some of the issues when vendors play silly sods e.g. VW.
If you believe the IFS, single market membership is worth about 1.8% of our GDP, or around £32bn p.a. By contrast TTIP was estimated to be worth about .35% of UK GDP by the mid '20s.
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
May has also refused to rule out some UK contributions to the EU budget continuing today and has said there will be no extra £100m for the NHS. She is basically throwing the Vote Leave platform in the bin
Apart from the whole leaving the EU thing
Well clearly BREXIT will happen but the land of milk and honey the Leave campaign promised is now for the birds!
On thread, Ladbrokes are at present offering odds of 5/6 that Corbyn will get under 61.5%, (and likewise for over that figure). 61.5% is almost exactly the result of the YouGov poll.
I think it will be closer than that for reasons given on the previous thread. Don Brind goes even further. So 5/6 for under seems quite a good offer.
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
May has also refused to rule out some UK contributions to the EU budget continuing today and has said there will be no extra £100m for the NHS. She is basically throwing the Vote Leave platform in the bin
Apart from the whole leaving the EU thing
Well clearly BREXIT will happen but the land of milk and honey the Leave campaign promised is now for the birds!
I know they weren't in government, it would be up to the government, etc, etc, but I really do think it legitimate to ask what Brexit is going to look like without being accused of some vile anti-UK sentiment.
Many Remainers, well me for one, supposed pre-vote that post-Brexit UK would look an awful lot like pre-Brexit UK save for the fact that we would be in a less good position in various areas, almost certainly imperceptible to the human eye (diminution in GDP vs some kind of alternative; no input into some of the rules we will have to follow; extra admin burden; potential loss of FDI).
We had an almost instant u-turn on ECHR, and now it seems the EAW is going the same way (ie we are keeping it).
So we are surely allowed to ask, apart from being able to negotiate trade deals with up and coming Namibia, what it will do for us. EAW and ECHR were pretty strong "sovereignty" hot buttons and it seems we have not taken control. Is that just the start? Wait 'til single market negotiations come up.
Meanwhile the £350m, VAT on home energy, etc, etc have now become standing jokes, whereas a large number of people voted Leave for this reason.
Where exactly is the mooted benefit to our country?
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
May has also refused to rule out some UK contributions to the EU budget continuing today and has said there will be no extra £100m for the NHS. She is basically throwing the Vote Leave platform in the bin
Apart from the whole leaving the EU thing
Well clearly BREXIT will happen but the land of milk and honey the Leave campaign promised is now for the birds!
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
May has also refused to rule out some UK contributions to the EU budget continuing today and has said there will be no extra £100m for the NHS. She is basically throwing the Vote Leave platform in the bin
Apart from the whole leaving the EU thing
Well clearly BREXIT will happen but the land of milk and honey the Leave campaign promised is now for the birds!
I know they weren't in government, it would be up to the government, etc, etc, but I really do think it legitimate to ask what Brexit is going to look like without being accused of some vile anti-UK sentiment.
Many Remainers, well me for one, supposed pre-vote that post-Brexit UK would look an awful lot like pre-Brexit UK save for the fact that we would be in a less good position in various areas, almost certainly imperceptible to the human eye (diminution in GDP vs some kind of alternative; no input into some of the rules we will have to follow; extra admin burden; potential loss of FDI).
We had an almost instant u-turn on ECHR, and now it seems the EAW is going the same way (ie we are keeping it).
So we are surely allowed to ask, apart from being able to negotiate trade deals with up and coming Namibia, what it will do for us. EAW and ECHR were pretty strong "sovereignty" hot buttons and it seems we have not taken control. Is that just the start? Wait 'til single market negotiations come up.
Meanwhile the £350m, VAT on home energy, etc, etc have now become standing jokes, whereas a large number of people voted Leave for this reason.
Where exactly is the reclaimed sovereignty?
At the end of the day, we will only be able to restrict the number of "foreigners" playing Premier League football.
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
May has also refused to rule out some UK contributions to the EU budget continuing today and has said there will be no extra £100m for the NHS. She is basically throwing the Vote Leave platform in the bin
Apart from the whole leaving the EU thing
Well clearly BREXIT will happen but the land of milk and honey the Leave campaign promised is now for the birds!
I know they weren't in government, it would be up to the government, etc, etc, but I really do think it legitimate to ask what Brexit is going to look like without being accused of some vile anti-UK sentiment.
Many Remainers, well me for one, supposed pre-vote that post-Brexit UK would look an awful lot like pre-Brexit UK save for the fact that we would be in a less good position in various areas, almost certainly imperceptible to the human eye (diminution in GDP vs some kind of alternative; no input into some of the rules we will have to follow; extra admin burden; potential loss of FDI).
We had an almost instant u-turn on ECHR, and now it seems the EAW is going the same way (ie we are keeping it).
So we are surely allowed to ask, apart from being able to negotiate trade deals with up and coming Namibia, what it will do for us. EAW and ECHR were pretty strong "sovereignty" hot buttons and it seems we have not taken control. Is that just the start? Wait 'til single market negotiations come up.
Meanwhile the £350m, VAT on home energy, etc, etc have now become standing jokes, whereas a large number of people voted Leave for this reason.
Where exactly is the reclaimed sovereignty?
A few non-trade regulations and savings on MEPs expenses and some token migration controls most likely
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
May has also refused to rule out some UK contributions to the EU budget continuing today and has said there will be no extra £100m for the NHS. She is basically throwing the Vote Leave platform in the bin
Apart from the whole leaving the EU thing
Well clearly BREXIT will happen but the land of milk and honey the Leave campaign promised is now for the birds!
I know they weren't in government, it would be up to the government, etc, etc, but I really do think it legitimate to ask what Brexit is going to look like without being accused of some vile anti-UK sentiment.
Many Remainers, well me for one, supposed pre-vote that post-Brexit UK would look an awful lot like pre-Brexit UK save for the fact that we would be in a less good position in various areas, almost certainly imperceptible to the human eye (diminution in GDP vs some kind of alternative; no input into some of the rules we will have to follow; extra admin burden; potential loss of FDI).
We had an almost instant u-turn on ECHR, and now it seems the EAW is going the same way (ie we are keeping it).
So we are surely allowed to ask, apart from being able to negotiate trade deals with up and coming Namibia, what it will do for us. EAW and ECHR were pretty strong "sovereignty" hot buttons and it seems we have not taken control. Is that just the start? Wait 'til single market negotiations come up.
Meanwhile the £350m, VAT on home energy, etc, etc have now become standing jokes, whereas a large number of people voted Leave for this reason.
Where exactly is the reclaimed sovereignty?
A few non-trade regulations and savings on MEPs expenses and some token migration controls most likely
Surely, MEP's expenses [ the funny business part ] was an income for the UK.
The discussion on what immigration system we should have is a prime example.
Yes I agree. I actually amended my last line: where exactly is the benefit for the UK, given that less will change than some Leavers hoped and voted for?
Mr Topping - the idea that in a complex world anyone is entirely at liberty to do exactly as they please is ludicrous. There were always going to be constraints on our freedom of action.
All this talk from Farage about 'backsliding' due to May's comments on the points-based system, despite the fact she thought the points-based system would allow too many migrants into the country (given anyone who meets the criteria can enter, without limit). Bonkers!
May has also refused to rule out some UK contributions to the EU budget continuing today and has said there will be no extra £100m for the NHS. She is basically throwing the Vote Leave platform in the bin
Apart from the whole leaving the EU thing
Well clearly BREXIT will happen but the land of milk and honey the Leave campaign promised is now for the birds!
I know they weren't in government, it would be up to the government, etc, etc, but I really do think it legitimate to ask what Brexit is going to look like without being accused of some vile anti-UK sentiment.
Many Remainers, well me for one, supposed pre-vote that post-Brexit UK would look an awful lot like pre-Brexit UK save for the fact that we would be in a less good position in various areas, almost certainly imperceptible to the human eye (diminution in GDP vs some kind of alternative; no input into some of the rules we will have to follow; extra admin burden; potential loss of FDI).
We had an almost instant u-turn on ECHR, and now it seems the EAW is going the same way (ie we are keeping it).
So we are surely allowed to ask, apart from being able to negotiate trade deals with up and coming Namibia, what it will do for us. EAW and ECHR were pretty strong "sovereignty" hot buttons and it seems we have not taken control. Is that just the start? Wait 'til single market negotiations come up.
Meanwhile the £350m, VAT on home energy, etc, etc have now become standing jokes, whereas a large number of people voted Leave for this reason.
Where exactly is the reclaimed sovereignty?
A few non-trade regulations and savings on MEPs expenses and some token migration controls most likely
Surely, MEP's expenses [ the funny business part ] was an income for the UK.
Jean-Claude Juncker, the head of the European Commission, has told Theresa May that she should not be holding free trade discussions with other nations while Britain is still a member of the EU.
What an idiot he is. Cameron was right to try to block his appointment.
Quite apart from anything else, it is entirely in the EU's interests for our exit to be as smooth and non-disruptive as possible. They should be encouraging us to talk as soon as possible both with the EU and with other countries. Any Article 50 turbulence is going to hit them as well as us.
As far as I'm aware we can sit down with whoever we like and talk about whatever we like?
One assumes that the reply given by May to Drunker was in a similar vain to that given by the respondent in the famous Arkell v Pressdram?
The discussion on what immigration system we should have is a prime example.
Teresa May apparently is of the view that we should start with a control on immigration and work backward towards the single market.
This from a woman who was the Home Secretary who failed to implement government policy on immigration for six consecutive years. Leaving aside the EU people, each year another 150k non-EU people also came in. They were and are still "controllable", if that is what she / they wanted to do.
Mr Topping - the idea that in a complex world anyone is entirely at liberty to do exactly as they please is ludicrous. There were always going to be constraints on our freedom of action.
I agree. But that was not what was on the Leavers' big red battle tin. I agree that as @RobD has noted, the fact that we can choose what immigration system we have (although of course the single market negotiations will be acute in that respect), is an indication of our sovereignty. But what difference will it make to the country when the inevitable fudge is agreed?
Well we will have decided, of course. Just us. But as you say, the exogenous factors are such that the claim of sovereignty becomes less meaningful.
As a Labour supporter, over the past few weeks my moods have swung from despair to euphoria when various bits of info came comes out about the leadership election. Don's piece earlier gave me optimism, Joff's post, realism. Joff has called it right, there are many members like me, long-standing, keeping their heads down in the hope that the Corbyn whirlwind will blow over and perhaps after 2020 we can start regrouping. My big hope is that the Tories,with no opposition will tear themselves apart over brexit and perhaps the next GE may not be as bad as I fear. Thanks to both Don and Joff for most interesting pieces.
My thanks to those who offered advice. I found a mirror to hold by his nose, as per Dr Sox, and whilst I was trying to work out where in the bundle of curled fur his nose actually was and how I could get a mirror close to it I saw an ear flicker. So the old boy is still alive and just not ready for his tea yet (age and too many prawns at lunchtime I suppose).
Phew, thanks to all.
@Pulpstar Simba's 6.8kg seems an awful lot. The chap across the road has a Siamese that got into that range (mainly I think because at least two of the neighbours were also feeding his cat) and it has cost him an arm and a leg on Vet's bills.
Glad to hear Thomas is still going. A gentle tickle on the whiskers or ears would not be much of a shock, even for a veteran moggie.
My grandfathers last words were "I am a little sleepy after that lunch, I will go have a nap in my chair".
At the age of 94 a pretty good way to go, though a shock to my grandmother when she brought him a cup of tea an hour later.
My favourite joke on this subject is a Bob Monkhouse one:
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my father did. Not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus!"
Does anyone know how to put a youtube link at a set time midway through the video on here?
Pause the video at the point you wish to start from. – Right click on the vid, ‘copy video URL at current time’ will appear, left click on it, then paste into PB comment box. {in theory )
Has there been an announcement in the past 10 days ?
Human Rights Act will be scrapped, government confirms | The Week UK www.theweek.co.uk/63635/human-rights-act-will-be-scrapped-government-confirms 23 Aug 2016 - Campaigners speak out after Liz Truss confirms Conservative ... British courts and the European Court of Human Rights and stop the act being ...
The discussion on what immigration system we should have is a prime example.
Yes I agree. I actually amended my last line: where exactly is the benefit for the UK, given that less will change than some Leavers hoped and voted for?
The benefit being what Leavers proposed may not have actually been the best plan.
The discussion on what immigration system we should have is a prime example.
Teresa May apparently is of the view that we should start with a control on immigration and work backward towards the single market. This from a woman who was the Home Secretary who failed to implement government policy on immigration for six consecutive years. Leaving aside the EU people, each year another 150k non-EU people also came in. They were and are still "controllable", if that is what she / they wanted to do.
Don`t worry, Mr Surbiton. We now have somebody else as Home Secretary. I cannot remember who he is, but I am sure he is much more competent than Mrs May ever was.
Has there been an announcement in the past 10 days ?
Human Rights Act will be scrapped, government confirms | The Week UK www.theweek.co.uk/63635/human-rights-act-will-be-scrapped-government-confirms 23 Aug 2016 - Campaigners speak out after Liz Truss confirms Conservative ... British courts and the European Court of Human Rights and stop the act being ...
It was on the WatO last week. We have decided not to withdraw from the EC(onvention on)HR. Which means that any British Bill of Rights (of the type mentioned in that article) will remain subordinate to the EC(ourt of)HR.
Edit: link - it is not the same as the Human Rights Act.
Does anyone know how to put a youtube link at a set time midway through the video on here?
Pause the video at the point you wish to start from. – Right click on the vid, ‘copy video URL at current time’ will appear, left click on it, then paste into PB comment box. {in theory )
did that but it just played from the beginning anyway
link works properly when pasted to browser direct but not here !
The discussion on what immigration system we should have is a prime example.
Teresa May apparently is of the view that we should start with a control on immigration and work backward towards the single market. This from a woman who was the Home Secretary who failed to implement government policy on immigration for six consecutive years. Leaving aside the EU people, each year another 150k non-EU people also came in. They were and are still "controllable", if that is what she / they wanted to do.
Don`t worry, Mr Surbiton. We now have somebody else as Home Secretary. I cannot remember who he is, but I am sure he is much more competent than Mrs May ever was.
I think he is a she. The Home Office remains a bastion of masterly inactivity though. 6 years habits are hard to shift.
Does anyone know how to put a youtube link at a set time midway through the video on here?
Pause the video at the point you wish to start from. – Right click on the vid, ‘copy video URL at current time’ will appear, left click on it, then paste into PB comment box. {in theory )
did that but it just played from the beginning anyway
link works properly when pasted to browser direct but not here !
In the meantime I'm kicking my heels because our software supplier's cloud storage crashed a week last Friday and they haven't been able to get it back up again.
My thanks to those who offered advice. I found a mirror to hold by his nose, as per Dr Sox, and whilst I was trying to work out where in the bundle of curled fur his nose actually was and how I could get a mirror close to it I saw an ear flicker. So the old boy is still alive and just not ready for his tea yet (age and too many prawns at lunchtime I suppose).
Phew, thanks to all.
@Pulpstar Simba's 6.8kg seems an awful lot. The chap across the road has a Siamese that got into that range (mainly I think because at least two of the neighbours were also feeding his cat) and it has cost him an arm and a leg on Vet's bills.
Hooray!
How old is Thomas? My last cat got to 20, which I thought was pretty impressive.
He is 19, Mrs Free. At his last check-up his very nice young German lady vet declared him in remarkable physical condition for his age. However, it is clear that he is getting on. He doesn't do much these days except eat and sleep and sometimes we catch him in an odd position as if he had started to do something (like turn around) and then forgot half way through what it was he wanted to do. However, he still enjoys his meals (he has just woken up and wandered into the kitchen demanding roast chicken, and no rubbish from Tesco either), snoozing in the garden when the sun is out and snuggling up to Herself after his evening cheese ration. So the quality of life is still there.
Mr Topping - the idea that in a complex world anyone is entirely at liberty to do exactly as they please is ludicrous. There were always going to be constraints on our freedom of action.
I agree. But that was not what was on the Leavers' big red battle tin. I agree that as @RobD has noted, the fact that we can choose what immigration system we have (although of course the single market negotiations will be acute in that respect), is an indication of our sovereignty. But what difference will it make to the country when the inevitable fudge is agreed?
Well we will have decided, of course. Just us. But as you say, the exogenous factors are such that the claim of sovereignty becomes less meaningful.
You raise a very legitimate question.
But I think you underestimate the value - to some - of decisions being made by politicians in Britain, answerable to the British electorate - rather than being made elsewhere. Self-government, even when this involves trade-offs rather than total freedom to do exactly what you want, regardless of others' wishes, is a value in itself. Rather an important one, IMO. And when it is missing all sort of other things go wrong with our political culture.
In reality, we will have to negotiate and this will necessarily involve compromises. But that is better than having decisions made for you, which you may well think against your interests, because you have in effect been outvoted by politicians who are not answerable to the British electorate.
I rather dislike this poo-poohing (and I am not addressing this to you personally) of democracy. The people may, in some eyes, be foolish but I prefer a system where foolish people have a say to one where they don't.
Does anyone know how to put a youtube link at a set time midway through the video on here?
Pause the video at the point you wish to start from. – Right click on the vid, ‘copy video URL at current time’ will appear, left click on it, then paste into PB comment box. {in theory )
Unfortunately that theory doesn't seem to work in practice. Most likely an incomplete implementation of the YouTube API by Vanilla.
My thanks to those who offered advice. I found a mirror to hold by his nose, as per Dr Sox, and whilst I was trying to work out where in the bundle of curled fur his nose actually was and how I could get a mirror close to it I saw an ear flicker. So the old boy is still alive and just not ready for his tea yet (age and too many prawns at lunchtime I suppose).
Phew, thanks to all.
@Pulpstar Simba's 6.8kg seems an awful lot. The chap across the road has a Siamese that got into that range (mainly I think because at least two of the neighbours were also feeding his cat) and it has cost him an arm and a leg on Vet's bills.
Hooray!
How old is Thomas? My last cat got to 20, which I thought was pretty impressive.
He is 19, Mrs Free. At his last check-up his very nice young German lady vet declared him in remarkable physical condition for his age. However, it is clear that he is getting on. He doesn't do much these days except eat and sleep and sometimes we catch him in an odd position as if he had started to do something (like turn around) and then forgot half way through what it was he wanted to do. However, he still enjoys his meals (he has just woken up and wandered into the kitchen demanding roast chicken, and no rubbish from Tesco either), snoozing in the garden when the sun is out and snuggling up to Herself after his evening cheese ration. So the quality of life is still there.
He is having a marvelous life. Long may it continue!
Mr Topping - the idea that in a complex world anyone is entirely at liberty to do exactly as they please is ludicrous. There were always going to be constraints on our freedom of action.
I agree. But that was not what was on the Leavers' big red battle tin. I agree that as @RobD has noted, the fact that we can choose what immigration system we have (although of course the single market negotiations will be acute in that respect), is an indication of our sovereignty. But what difference will it make to the country when the inevitable fudge is agreed?
Well we will have decided, of course. Just us. But as you say, the exogenous factors are such that the claim of sovereignty becomes less meaningful.
You raise a very legitimate question.
But I think you underestimate the value - to some - of decisions being made by politicians in Britain, answerable to the British electorate - rather than being made elsewhere. Self-government, even when this involves trade-offs rather than total freedom to do exactly what you want, regardless of others' wishes, is a value in itself. Rather an important one, IMO. And when it is missing all sort of other things go wrong with our political culture.
In reality, we will have to negotiate and this will necessarily involve compromises. But that is better than having decisions made for you, which you may well think against your interests, because you have in effect been outvoted by politicians who are not answerable to the British electorate.
I rather dislike this poo-poohing (and I am not addressing this to you personally) of democracy. The people may, in some eyes, be foolish but I prefer a system where foolish people have a say to one where they don't.
The original proposals for the UK BoR are here, if anyone is interested:
Has there been an announcement in the past 10 days ?
Human Rights Act will be scrapped, government confirms | The Week UK www.theweek.co.uk/63635/human-rights-act-will-be-scrapped-government-confirms 23 Aug 2016 - Campaigners speak out after Liz Truss confirms Conservative ... British courts and the European Court of Human Rights and stop the act being ...
It was on the WatO last week. We have decided not to withdraw from the EC(onvention on)HR. Which means that any British Bill of Rights (of the type mentioned in that article) will remain subordinate to the EC(ourt of)HR.
Fucking hell another Brexiteer with fuck all knowledge of history. I expect the partition of Scotland to be messy. I know Brexiteers are thick and uneducated but...
@mattholehouse: Peter Lilley says UK should go for a fast-track separation like India in 1947. Perhaps not the best lesson from history.
In the meantime I'm kicking my heels because our software supplier's cloud storage crashed a week last Friday and they haven't been able to get it back up again.
Whoops. Hope you've got a punitive service level agreement with them.
Mr Topping - the idea that in a complex world anyone is entirely at liberty to do exactly as they please is ludicrous. There were always going to be constraints on our freedom of action.
I agree. But that was not what was on the Leavers' big red battle tin. I agree that as @RobD has noted, the fact that we can choose what immigration system we have (although of course the single market negotiations will be acute in that respect), is an indication of our sovereignty. But what difference will it make to the country when the inevitable fudge is agreed?
Well we will have decided, of course. Just us. But as you say, the exogenous factors are such that the claim of sovereignty becomes less meaningful.
You raise a very legitimate question.
But I think you underestimate the value - to some - of decisions being made by politicians in Britain, answerable to the British electorate - rather than being made elsewhere. Self-government, even when this involves trade-offs rather than total freedom to do exactly what you want, regardless of others' wishes, is a value in itself. Rather an important one, IMO. And when it is missing all sort of other things go wrong with our political culture.
In reality, we will have to negotiate and this will necessarily involve compromises. But that is better than having decisions made for you, which you may well think against your interests, because you have in effect been outvoted by politicians who are not answerable to the British electorate.
I rather dislike this poo-poohing (and I am not addressing this to you personally) of democracy. The people may, in some eyes, be foolish but I prefer a system where foolish people have a say to one where they don't.
Of course, I agree with your last point. I (although I appreciate you had not said I had) do not pooh-pooh democracy. The opposite, as my comments on eg. UKIP, Tony Blair's Gulf war, and Brexit demonstrate.
And again without wishing to fight old battles, I think there is a matter of degree rather than substance between compromising to achieve benefit for the country outside the EU as we are about to do, and agreeing as a sovereign nation to compromise on various issues within the EU, as we have done these past few decades.
Fucking hell another Brexiteer with fuck all knowledge of history. I expect the partition of Scotland to be messy. I know Brexiteers are thick and uneducated but...
@mattholehouse: Peter Lilley says UK should go for a fast-track separation like India in 1947. Perhaps not the best lesson from history.
Mr Topping - the idea that in a complex world anyone is entirely at liberty to do exactly as they please is ludicrous. There were always going to be constraints on our freedom of action.
I agree. But that was not what was on the Leavers' big red battle tin. I agree that as @RobD has noted, the fact that we can choose what immigration system we have (although of course the single market negotiations will be acute in that respect), is an indication of our sovereignty. But what difference will it make to the country when the inevitable fudge is agreed?
Well we will have decided, of course. Just us. But as you say, the exogenous factors are such that the claim of sovereignty becomes less meaningful.
You raise a very legitimate question.
But I think you underestimate the value - to some - of decisions being made by politicians in Britain, answerable to the British electorate - rather than being made elsewhere. Self-government, even when this involves trade-offs rather than total freedom to do exactly what you want, regardless of others' wishes, is a value in itself. Rather an important one, IMO. And when it is missing all sort of other things go wrong with our political culture.
In reality, we will have to negotiate and this will necessarily involve compromises. But that is better than having decisions made for you, which you may well think against your interests, because you have in effect been outvoted by politicians who are not answerable to the British electorate.
I rather dislike this poo-poohing (and I am not addressing this to you personally) of democracy. The people may, in some eyes, be foolish but I prefer a system where foolish people have a say to one where they don't.
Of course, I agree with your last point. I (although I appreciate you had not said I had) do not pooh-pooh democracy. The opposite, as my comments on eg. UKIP, Tony Blair's Gulf war, and Brexit demonstrate.
And again without wishing to fight old battles, I think there is a matter of degree rather than substance between compromising to achieve benefit for the country outside the EU as we are about to do, and agreeing as a sovereign nation to compromise on various issues within the EU, as we have done these past few decades.
Indeed before Brexit we had a part in drafting the rules. Now our European neighbours will draft the rules. Our place is only to decide whether we sign up to others rules, or leave the business off.
My thanks to those who offered advice. I found a mirror to hold by his nose, as per Dr Sox, and whilst I was trying to work out where in the bundle of curled fur his nose actually was and how I could get a mirror close to it I saw an ear flicker. So the old boy is still alive and just not ready for his tea yet (age and too many prawns at lunchtime I suppose).
Phew, thanks to all.
@Pulpstar Simba's 6.8kg seems an awful lot. The chap across the road has a Siamese that got into that range (mainly I think because at least two of the neighbours were also feeding his cat) and it has cost him an arm and a leg on Vet's bills.
Glad to hear Thomas is still going. A gentle tickle on the whiskers or ears would not be much of a shock, even for a veteran moggie.
My grandfathers last words were "I am a little sleepy after that lunch, I will go have a nap in my chair".
At the age of 94 a pretty good way to go, though a shock to my grandmother when she brought him a cup of tea an hour later.
My favourite joke on this subject is a Bob Monkhouse one:
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my father did. Not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus!"
Bob's autobiog is fascinating - there's even more to him than ever re publishing books under nom de plumes. And a very long Eff You letter to his dad IIRC. Been a long time since I read it, but worth a looksee if you liked him as much as I did. 4.5/5 stars.
I agree. But that was not what was on the Leavers' big red battle tin. I agree that as @RobD has noted, the fact that we can choose what immigration system we have (although of course the single market negotiations will be acute in that respect), is an indication of our sovereignty. But what difference will it make to the country when the inevitable fudge is agreed?
Well we will have decided, of course. Just us. But as you say, the exogenous factors are such that the claim of sovereignty becomes less meaningful.
You raise a very legitimate question.
But I think you underestimate the value - to some - of decisions being made by politicians in Britain, answerable to the British electorate - rather than being made elsewhere. Self-government, even when this involves trade-offs rather than total freedom to do exactly what you want, regardless of others' wishes, is a value in itself. Rather an important one, IMO. And when it is missing all sort of other things go wrong with our political culture.
In reality, we will have to negotiate and this will necessarily involve compromises. But that is better than having decisions made for you, which you may well think against your interests, because you have in effect been outvoted by politicians who are not answerable to the British electorate.
I rather dislike this poo-poohing (and I am not addressing this to you personally) of democracy. The people may, in some eyes, be foolish but I prefer a system where foolish people have a say to one where they don't.
Of course, I agree with your last point. I (although I appreciate you had not said I had) do not pooh-pooh democracy. The opposite, as my comments on eg. UKIP, Tony Blair's Gulf war, and Brexit demonstrate.
And again without wishing to fight old battles, I think there is a matter of degree rather than substance between compromising to achieve benefit for the country outside the EU as we are about to do, and agreeing as a sovereign nation to compromise on various issues within the EU, as we have done these past few decades.
I think, in the end, the difference between is is that I feel the way the EU was going, the UK was not compromising within the EU but being overridden and that the reality of the power relationships were such that the problem would get worse rather than better.
A matter of degree, as you say, but sometimes these can be crucial.
The difference between those who did not much like the EU but thought on balance we should Remain and those who felt the same but thought on balance we should Leave is not as great as the division into Leavers/Remainers might suggest.
My thanks to those who offered advice. I found a mirror to hold by his nose, as per Dr Sox, and whilst I was trying to work out where in the bundle of curled fur his nose actually was and how I could get a mirror close to it I saw an ear flicker. So the old boy is still alive and just not ready for his tea yet (age and too many prawns at lunchtime I suppose).
Phew, thanks to all.
@Pulpstar Simba's 6.8kg seems an awful lot. The chap across the road has a Siamese that got into that range (mainly I think because at least two of the neighbours were also feeding his cat) and it has cost him an arm and a leg on Vet's bills.
Hooray!
How old is Thomas? My last cat got to 20, which I thought was pretty impressive.
He is 19, Mrs Free. At his last check-up his very nice young German lady vet declared him in remarkable physical condition for his age. However, it is clear that he is getting on. He doesn't do much these days except eat and sleep and sometimes we catch him in an odd position as if he had started to do something (like turn around) and then forgot half way through what it was he wanted to do. However, he still enjoys his meals (he has just woken up and wandered into the kitchen demanding roast chicken, and no rubbish from Tesco either), snoozing in the garden when the sun is out and snuggling up to Herself after his evening cheese ration. So the quality of life is still there.
General speaking - all my ancient or ill kitties have sprung into unexpected life the day before they go to the great cat basket. One danced about the garden in the sunshine like she was 6 months old. It still makes me smile/cry to remember her doing it 20yrs later.
He is 19, Mrs Free. At his last check-up his very nice young German lady vet declared him in remarkable physical condition for his age. However, it is clear that he is getting on. He doesn't do much these days except eat and sleep and sometimes we catch him in an odd position as if he had started to do something (like turn around) and then forgot half way through what it was he wanted to do. However, he still enjoys his meals (he has just woken up and wandered into the kitchen demanding roast chicken, and no rubbish from Tesco either), snoozing in the garden when the sun is out and snuggling up to Herself after his evening cheese ration. So the quality of life is still there.
On the scale of 1 to 100 in the life quality of inhabitants of this planet, I think being Hurst's cat would score pretty high - possibly more than most of us. It's good to hear he's still ticking over, and of course returning the pleasure as all cats do just by existing.
My thanks to those who offered advice. I found a mirror to hold by his nose, as per Dr Sox, and whilst I was trying to work out where in the bundle of curled fur his nose actually was and how I could get a mirror close to it I saw an ear flicker. So the old boy is still alive and just not ready for his tea yet (age and too many prawns at lunchtime I suppose).
Phew, thanks to all.
@Pulpstar Simba's 6.8kg seems an awful lot. The chap across the road has a Siamese that got into that range (mainly I think because at least two of the neighbours were also feeding his cat) and it has cost him an arm and a leg on Vet's bills.
Glad to hear Thomas is still going. A gentle tickle on the whiskers or ears would not be much of a shock, even for a veteran moggie.
My grandfathers last words were "I am a little sleepy after that lunch, I will go have a nap in my chair".
At the age of 94 a pretty good way to go, though a shock to my grandmother when she brought him a cup of tea an hour later.
My favourite joke on this subject is a Bob Monkhouse one:
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my father did. Not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus!"
Your grandfather went in about the best way I can imagine. A damn good innings and then gently dropping off without complaint, pain or, as far as we know, anticipation. That we could all be as lucky.
When I was at the Home Office I worked for a while with a chap who was a bit of a philosopher, at least that is where his degrees were, and he had theory that very few people die involuntarily. The older I get the more convinced I become that he was right.
But I think you underestimate the value - to some - of decisions being made by politicians in Britain, answerable to the British electorate - rather than being made elsewhere. Self-government, even when this involves trade-offs rather than total freedom to do exactly what you want, regardless of others' wishes, is a value in itself. Rather an important one, IMO. And when it is missing all sort of other things go wrong with our political culture.
In reality, we will have to negotiate and this will necessarily involve compromises. But that is better than having decisions made for you, which you may well think against your interests, because you have in effect been outvoted by politicians who are not answerable to the British electorate.
I rather dislike this poo-poohing (and I am not addressing this to you personally) of democracy. The people may, in some eyes, be foolish but I prefer a system where foolish people have a say to one where they don't.
Of course, I agree with your last point. I (although I appreciate you had not said I had) do not pooh-pooh democracy. The opposite, as my comments on eg. UKIP, Tony Blair's Gulf war, and Brexit demonstrate.
And again without wishing to fight old battles, I think there is a matter of degree rather than substance between compromising to achieve benefit for the country outside the EU as we are about to do, and agreeing as a sovereign nation to compromise on various issues within the EU, as we have done these past few decades.
Indeed before Brexit we had a part in drafting the rules. Now our European neighbours will draft the rules. Our place is only to decide whether we sign up to others rules, or leave the business off.
Or design our own rules which may be more attractive to business than EU rules. There is no need for us to be passive players.
We did in theory have a part in drafting rules. In reality, our chances of getting something we wanted or stopping something that we thought harmful to our interests were pretty small. The gap between the theory and reality was wide and getting wider. The failure of all politicians, British and European, to deal with this is one reason why Brexit happened.
Comments
https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/772825812882034688
"Last month, the award-winning chief correspondent of Sky News, Stuart Ramsay, reported on alleged gun-running in Romania. It was a shocking story and received much attention...
The country’s Directorate for Combatting Terrorism and Organised Crime asserts that Ramsay and his crew faked the whole report. But this is not the usual tale of allegation followed by denial. The Romanian authorities responded to the story with a formal request to the UK for legal assistance into a criminal investigation. The Sky journalists have been charged with spreading false information to the detriment of Romania’s national security...
I understand from highly placed sources that this is merely the first step and that the Romanians intend issuing a European Arrest Warrant for the extradition of Ramsay and his film crew. Under the terms of the agreement, there are only two grounds for denying that extradition if the paperwork is in order. A court must find that the defendant’s human rights will be breached or that the issue of the warrant is politically motivated."
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/the-case-that-shows-why-we-must-not-stay-in-the-european-arrest-warrant/
Are you then locked into an exclusive contract, even if it turns out the 'valuation' was ridiculous?
Foxtons is a company you wouldn't want to buy from, but would happily commission to sell for you.
I'm hoping we can pursue amicable negotiations with the Council, with the least amount of input from the Commission.
Woohoo! (I think)
Though London harbors all sorts of criminals who are wanted in their EU countries and are not sent back.
Interesting the civil libertarian standard-bearer David Davis confirms we hope to say within the EAW.
I appreciate it's hugely helpful for anti-terrorism reasons, but I'd prefer a British judge to consider the evidence and confirm first whether I can be shipped to Bucharest on potentially trumped up charges.
Freedom indeed.
No, the original slogan wasn't very witty either.
My thanks to those who offered advice. I found a mirror to hold by his nose, as per Dr Sox, and whilst I was trying to work out where in the bundle of curled fur his nose actually was and how I could get a mirror close to it I saw an ear flicker. So the old boy is still alive and just not ready for his tea yet (age and too many prawns at lunchtime I suppose).
Phew, thanks to all.
@Pulpstar Simba's 6.8kg seems an awful lot. The chap across the road has a Siamese that got into that range (mainly I think because at least two of the neighbours were also feeding his cat) and it has cost him an arm and a leg on Vet's bills.
very happy the old fellow still has some life in him.
Foxtons are pushy, brash, and effective. Or so I have found.
Today? No idea but I'd rather have them on my side if I was a seller.
As for immigration I have never understood the obsession with points based systems as the acme of control. As far as I can see the only nations that employ them and that are indeed held as exemplars have proportionally far higher migration.
In America most are now fervently against it because Trump is in favour of it.
How old is Thomas? My last cat got to 20, which I thought was pretty impressive.
If you believe the IFS, single market membership is worth about 1.8% of our GDP, or around £32bn p.a. By contrast TTIP was estimated to be worth about .35% of UK GDP by the mid '20s.
I think it will be closer than that for reasons given on the previous thread. Don Brind goes even further. So 5/6 for under seems quite a good offer.
Many Remainers, well me for one, supposed pre-vote that post-Brexit UK would look an awful lot like pre-Brexit UK save for the fact that we would be in a less good position in various areas, almost certainly imperceptible to the human eye (diminution in GDP vs some kind of alternative; no input into some of the rules we will have to follow; extra admin burden; potential loss of FDI).
We had an almost instant u-turn on ECHR, and now it seems the EAW is going the same way (ie we are keeping it).
So we are surely allowed to ask, apart from being able to negotiate trade deals with up and coming Namibia, what it will do for us. EAW and ECHR were pretty strong "sovereignty" hot buttons and it seems we have not taken control. Is that just the start? Wait 'til single market negotiations come up.
Meanwhile the £350m, VAT on home energy, etc, etc have now become standing jokes, whereas a large number of people voted Leave for this reason.
Where exactly is the mooted benefit to our country?
This from a woman who was the Home Secretary who failed to implement government policy on immigration for six consecutive years. Leaving aside the EU people, each year another 150k non-EU people also came in. They were and are still "controllable", if that is what she / they wanted to do.
Well we will have decided, of course. Just us. But as you say, the exogenous factors are such that the claim of sovereignty becomes less meaningful.
Metro
Philippine president calls Barack Obama's mum a whore https://t.co/Bhs7nYYnBB
My big hope is that the Tories,with no opposition will tear themselves apart over brexit and perhaps the next GE may not be as bad as I fear.
Thanks to both Don and Joff for most interesting pieces.
My grandfathers last words were "I am a little sleepy after that lunch, I will go have a nap in my chair".
At the age of 94 a pretty good way to go, though a shock to my grandmother when she brought him a cup of tea an hour later.
My favourite joke on this subject is a Bob Monkhouse one:
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my father did. Not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus!"
Read Jeremy's full manifesto on women's equality here:
https://t.co/55GuGC7m1s
'We had an almost instant u-turn on ECHR'
Has there been an announcement in the past 10 days ?
Human Rights Act will be scrapped, government confirms | The Week UK
www.theweek.co.uk/63635/human-rights-act-will-be-scrapped-government-confirms
23 Aug 2016 - Campaigners speak out after Liz Truss confirms Conservative ... British courts and the European Court of Human Rights and stop the act being ...
Edit: link - it is not the same as the Human Rights Act.
rightsinfo.org/breaking-theresa-may-will-not-try-leave-european-convention-human-rights/
link works properly when pasted to browser direct but not here !
Tim C
Did @YouGov get their recent polling wrong? Don Brind seems to think so https://t.co/hWSNHPghjP
[a href="URL HERE"]your text[/a]
replace [ with < and ] with >
But I think you underestimate the value - to some - of decisions being made by politicians in Britain, answerable to the British electorate - rather than being made elsewhere. Self-government, even when this involves trade-offs rather than total freedom to do exactly what you want, regardless of others' wishes, is a value in itself. Rather an important one, IMO. And when it is missing all sort of other things go wrong with our political culture.
In reality, we will have to negotiate and this will necessarily involve compromises. But that is better than having decisions made for you, which you may well think against your interests, because you have in effect been outvoted by politicians who are not answerable to the British electorate.
I rather dislike this poo-poohing (and I am not addressing this to you personally) of democracy. The people may, in some eyes, be foolish but I prefer a system where foolish people have a say to one where they don't.
http://bit.ly/2bSjl3u
And the British Sausage...
https://youtu.be/OzeDZtx3wUw
@mattholehouse: Peter Lilley says UK should go for a fast-track separation like India in 1947. Perhaps not the best lesson from history.
And again without wishing to fight old battles, I think there is a matter of degree rather than substance between compromising to achieve benefit for the country outside the EU as we are about to do, and agreeing as a sovereign nation to compromise on various issues within the EU, as we have done these past few decades.
Mr. Eagles, well quite. Also, odd not to cite the Czech Republic and Slovakia velvet divorce, if one wants to go down that route of comparisons.
Edited extra bit: speaking of history, today I read the hound the first half of Suetonius' biography of Galba, and she seemed surprisingly interested.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00755HV9Q/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
A matter of degree, as you say, but sometimes these can be crucial.
The difference between those who did not much like the EU but thought on balance we should Remain and those who felt the same but thought on balance we should Leave is not as great as the division into Leavers/Remainers might suggest.
https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/772846032925229056
Mr. Eagles, are you quite sure? I can't recall signing up to such a league.
When I was at the Home Office I worked for a while with a chap who was a bit of a philosopher, at least that is where his degrees were, and he had theory that very few people die involuntarily. The older I get the more convinced I become that he was right.
We did in theory have a part in drafting rules. In reality, our chances of getting something we wanted or stopping something that we thought harmful to our interests were pretty small. The gap between the theory and reality was wide and getting wider. The failure of all politicians, British and European, to deal with this is one reason why Brexit happened.