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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Joff Wild says Owen Smith will lose, Labour will fight brutally, but the party will come through its current pain

Last week’s YouGov poll of Labour members, registered supporters and trade union affiliates giving Jeremy Corbyn a 62% to 38% lead over Owen Smith in the party’s leadership election will have surprised few, except – perhaps – Don Brind and Saving Labour (though how much they really believe the contest is too close to call is a moot point).

Read the full story here

SandyRentool

First, like a pair of Greens on a joint ticket.

PlatoSaid

One of four with Vaz.

MaxPB

Decent article, but if the Corbyn camp takes over the NEC and forces reselections on new boundaries, how do Labour recover after losing in 2020? The MPs will be much further to the left and less inclined to go for a Chucka or Dan.

The Tories are closing in on 200k members again @SouthamObserver! ABC might not be the second largest party soon.

John_M

MaxPB said:

Decent article, but if the Corbyn camp takes over the NEC and forces reselections on new boundaries, how do Labour recover after losing in 2020? The MPs will be much further to the left and less inclined to go for a Chucka or Dan.

The Tories are closing in on 200k members again @SouthamObserver! ABC might not be the second largest party soon.

Elsewhere SO and others have been at pains to point out how hard it is to deselect MPs in practice, even with the boundary revisions.

As ever, this tussle for the soul of the Labour party masks the real issue; its serial refusal to compromise with the electorate. It will go into the next election on a pro-Europe, pro-immigration platform and will suffer the consequences.

kle4

HYUFD said:

kle4 said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

May made clear outside No 10 the Union was more important to her than hard BREXIT and her first visit was to see Sturgeon after all''

Music to UKIP's ears.

UKIP'S hard BREXIT position represents 30% of voters at best, they are in no position to dictate terms to the rest of the country, they are as bad as Remainers who want a second referendum

The 30% who are determined, united and certain can overcome the 70% who are neither.

Rubbish, the 30% would be crushed at a general election, that is the same total Hague and Ed Miliband got, even if it would be high for a third party which could perhaps even become the opposition party

I was making a general point about minorities being able to influence majority positions when the majority is fractured and riven with doubt, not suggesting that in this instance it would be the case that that 30% would be triumphant. It was a point about the general power of fanaticism, not a prediction.

kle4

On topic, so long as no one really wants to split, and few do, and there is no one viable to take their place, Labour will endure this pain.

MaxPB

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

If we have a single migration policy that advantages or disadvantages no nation (other than Ireland as you rightly point out) what will they moan about?

That is an interesting question, because we might want to institute a system which indirectly discriminates against citizens of some EU countries at the expense of others. In fact, we probably will; that's kinda the idea of 'taking back control' of our borders.

This is going to be the kind of issue which could easily get very political, and therefore disrupt agreement on trade even though such disruption is in neither side's interests.

Yes, but I'd have thought the government would be smart enough to not get involved with all of that and just go for a one size fits all route and let the EU or individual nations come up with their own response. If we want to change that at a later date and enhance visas with specific nations then that's something for them to chew over at a later date. It doesn't make sense to do so, if a Polish worker has the skills to do a job which pays £40k per year and a German has the same skills for the same job, why should we discriminate against one and in favour of another?

Richard_Nabavi

I think Joff is broadly right in his assessment, but the question is: how long will it take for Labour to rid itself of the parasite which is eating away at it from the inside? It could be a very long time.

One minor quibble: Is it really the case that "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher"? I don't see any basis for that; if anything, she has been making policy statements which place her well to the left of Cameron on economic issues, corporate governance, income disparities, and equality legislation. It's a bit early to tell what the final mix will look like in practice, but at the moment it doesn't seem particularly right-wing at all.

[Deleted User]

Southam is right. Labour will, of course, survive.

That's the problem. What will also therefore survive is the lack of a decent opposition. What will survive is the misogynistic, nannying, anti-Semitic effluent that is today's Labour party. They can't win, they can't think, they can't oppose but they can't die either. They're undead. A zombie party. Goes down a treat in Islington.

edmundintokyo

MaxPB said:

Decent article, but if the Corbyn camp takes over the NEC and forces reselections on new boundaries, how do Labour recover after losing in 2020? The MPs will be much further to the left and less inclined to go for a Chucka or Dan.

It's up to the members not the MPs - the MPs only have to nominate.

But in any case the nature of MPs is that they want to win, so even if Corbyn purged all the moderates they're be replaced by a decent chunk of the new ones who said Corbynist-friendly things during the selection but then turned moderate in once they'd been elected.

HurstLlama

A cri de coeur from Mr. Observer, I think. Fair enough it is his party and he clearly cares about it (which is more than I do). However, I was struck by the passage, "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher". What on earth has Theresa May's government actually done that justifies the title of "right wing"?

John_M

Richard_Nabavi said:

I think Joff is broadly right in his assessment, but the question is: how long will it take for Labour to rid itself of the parasite which is eating away at it from the inside? It could be a very long time.

One minor quibble: Is it really the case that "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher"? I don't see any basis for that; if anything, she has been making policy statements which place her well to the left of Cameron on economic issues, corporate governance, income disparities, and equality legislation. It's a bit early to tell what the final mix will look like in practice, but at the moment it doesn't seem particularly right-wing at all.

Agree. May sounds like a proper pre-Thatcher One Nation Tory, though I hope more Macmillan than Heath.

DavidL

What is going to happen when Corbyn wins?
Will the PLP look to fill the shadow cabinet or will they still refuse to play?
Will the battle for control of the NEC go on?
How safe is Tom Watson, who has been far from glowing in his support of the leader?
How long can Iain McNicol hold on?
What is going to happen when the new boundaries come into force?

It seems to me that even Joff's pessimism understates the likelihood of continued warfare within Labour. The track record of the PLP suggests he is right about there being no splits but a united opposition is looking way out of reach. What is almost certain is that the post 2020 Labour party will look very different from what we have seen in the past. Whether it is still attractive to voters is an unanswered question.

MaxPB

Richard_Nabavi said:

I think Joff is broadly right in his assessment, but the question is: how long will it take for Labour to rid itself of the parasite which is eating away at it from the inside? It could be a very long time.

One minor quibble: Is it really the case that "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher"? I don't see any basis for that; if anything, she has been making policy statements which place her well to the left of Cameron on economic issues, corporate governance, income disparities, and equality legislation. It's a bit early to tell what the final mix will look like in practice, but at the moment it doesn't seem particularly right-wing at all.

Well to borrow from a certain Ed, it's pretty hard to judge a blank piece of paper. So far these are the policies I can think of from Mrs May.

1. Cancel Hinkley Point C
2. "Brexit means Brexit"
3. Maybe possibly somehow bring back grammar schools.

I think that sums it up. I hope her conference speech has more policy detail, it's a bit too sparse at the moment.

Richard_Nabavi

MaxPB said:

Well to borrow from a certain Ed, it's pretty hard to judge a blank piece of paper. So far these are the policies I can think of from Mrs May.

1. Cancel Hinkley Point C
2. "Brexit means Brexit"
3. Maybe possibly somehow bring back grammar schools.

I think that sums it up. I hope her conference speech has more policy detail, it's a bit too sparse at the moment.

Well, there's this, which doesn't look very right-wing to me:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/nils-pratley-on-finance/2016/jul/11/theresa-may-plan-workers-boardroom-reform-extraordinary-tories

[Deleted User]

Has May cancelled Hinckley C? (I think she should but I didn't think she had)

HurstLlama

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

I think Joff is broadly right in his assessment, but the question is: how long will it take for Labour to rid itself of the parasite which is eating away at it from the inside? It could be a very long time.

One minor quibble: Is it really the case that "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher"? I don't see any basis for that; if anything, she has been making policy statements which place her well to the left of Cameron on economic issues, corporate governance, income disparities, and equality legislation. It's a bit early to tell what the final mix will look like in practice, but at the moment it doesn't seem particularly right-wing at all.

Well to borrow from a certain Ed, it's pretty hard to judge a blank piece of paper. So far these are the policies I can think of from Mrs May.

1. Cancel Hinkley Point C
2. "Brexit means Brexit"
3. Maybe possibly somehow bring back grammar schools.

I think that sums it up. I hope her conference speech has more policy detail, it's a bit too sparse at the moment.

Point of order, Mr. Max, Hinkley Point C has not been cancelled, though I hope it will be.

peter_from_putney

Post removed

TheScreamingEagles

Regarding Keith Vaz, I'm putting an end to any speculation about him, and posts regarding him now have to come from a reputable UK based news organisation. (Order Order doesn't count)

Legal letters are flying about, and I'm sure no one wants to get Mike into trouble

Casino_Royale

I've looked Joff up, as you do.

Did he play the guy who stole the embryos in Jurassic Park?

(Possibly a bit harsh)

MaxPB

Patrick said:

Has May cancelled Hinckley C? (I think she should but I didn't think she had)

It's being reviewed, and judging by the Chinese reaction in Chengdu they've been told it's cancelled.

MaxPB

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

Well to borrow from a certain Ed, it's pretty hard to judge a blank piece of paper. So far these are the policies I can think of from Mrs May.

1. Cancel Hinkley Point C
2. "Brexit means Brexit"
3. Maybe possibly somehow bring back grammar schools.

I think that sums it up. I hope her conference speech has more policy detail, it's a bit too sparse at the moment.

Well, there's this, which doesn't look very right-wing to me:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/nils-pratley-on-finance/2016/jul/11/theresa-may-plan-workers-boardroom-reform-extraordinary-tories

I'd forgotten about this. Pretty left wing to have worker representative on the BoD. Definitely not a lot to suggest that she is leading the most right wing government since Mrs Thatcher.

Morris_Dancer

Good afternoon, everyone.

TCPoliticalBetting

Deselections on a massive scale of many Labour MPs looks inevitable. That did not happen in Foot or Kinnock's time because they were the Leaders. Today we have Corbyn in charge who keeps being attacked by his Labour MPs. When mass deselections happen, how can a New Labour type of party emerge from with the Labour party post 2020? Its Membership will be hard left, its money will come mainly from unions controlled by the hard left and its Leader will be from the Corbynite wing.

HurstLlama

peter_from_putney said:

Do other Pbers consider it rather unkind, as I do, to discover that Jeremy Corbyn is sometimes jokingly referred to as Steptoe on Guido Fawkes' site?

Unkind, possibly. Unreasonable, no.

Gardenwalker

Patrick said:

Southam is right. Labour will, of course, survive.

That's the problem. What will also therefore survive is the lack of a decent opposition. What will survive is the misogynistic, nannying, anti-Semitic effluent that is today's Labour party. They can't win, they can't think, they can't oppose but they can't die either. They're undead. A zombie party. Goes down a treat in Islington.

So, hopefully Labour survives post a zombie apocalypse.
But what happens in the meantime. 4 years (till 2020) is a long time for May to have free rein.

Who or what is the de facto opposition? The SNP? The BBC? The hard-right Brexiteers?

For that reason, May truly has an opportunity for a sweeping, transformative, one nation policy agenda.

But can't really see it coming from Mrs Cautious, aka Brown in kitten heels, and her gang of misfits.

I hope I'm wrong.

DavidL

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

I think Joff is broadly right in his assessment, but the question is: how long will it take for Labour to rid itself of the parasite which is eating away at it from the inside? It could be a very long time.

One minor quibble: Is it really the case that "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher"? I don't see any basis for that; if anything, she has been making policy statements which place her well to the left of Cameron on economic issues, corporate governance, income disparities, and equality legislation. It's a bit early to tell what the final mix will look like in practice, but at the moment it doesn't seem particularly right-wing at all.

Well to borrow from a certain Ed, it's pretty hard to judge a blank piece of paper. So far these are the policies I can think of from Mrs May.

1. Cancel Hinkley Point C
2. "Brexit means Brexit"
3. Maybe possibly somehow bring back grammar schools.

I think that sums it up. I hope her conference speech has more policy detail, it's a bit too sparse at the moment.

Also accepting that it is going to take many more years to bring in Universal Credit.
And a clear reluctance to take a decision on Heathrow.
And equivocation about HS2.
And an announcement that Osborne's deficit reduction plan is being abandoned without any stated alternative.
And more QE.

Not particularly right wing, not particularly decisive.

A change of leader is and should be a time for a rethink and to test some verities that have perhaps stood unchallenged for too long or to ditch policies which were attracting too much flak for any prospective benefit. That is entirely fair enough. But over the next few weeks we really need to get a clearer idea of what a May government is going to look like, what its priorities are and how it thinks it is going to change this country for the better. So far we barely have an inkling.

TCPoliticalBetting

peter_from_putney said:

Post removed

Yes it is unkind to Steptoe.

TCPoliticalBetting

HurstLlama said:

A cri de coeur from Mr. Observer, I think. Fair enough it is his party and he clearly cares about it (which is more than I do). However, I was struck by the passage, "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher". What on earth has Theresa May's government actually done that justifies the title of "right wing"?

Got rid of Osborne?

Pulpstar

1st !

Or it seems the party has started already

HurstLlama

MaxPB said:

Patrick said:

Has May cancelled Hinckley C? (I think she should but I didn't think she had)

It's being reviewed, and judging by the Chinese reaction in Chengdu they've been told it's cancelled.

If HMG have really informed the Chinese then I think that is shocking bad form. The people of this country, especially those who are sitting investment decisions, have as much right to know as the Chinese.

Ishmael_X

Post removed in deference to removal of what it was a reply to.

PlatoSaid

Sinister Farce
Just a little guy who lives outside the bubble, a play in 4 tweets: https://t.co/XdydosZoCs

GIN1138

Seems a more realistic assessment than The Don's!

Oh and 34th... Like Theresa May in a "leaders line-up"

#BackOfTheRow

TheScreamingEagles

Which PM are you quiz.

Apparently I'm Churchill

You booze hard and you're prone to long periods of depression. You speak your mind even if what you say isn't always politically correct. At certain times you're capable of astonishing leadership.

http://thetab.com/2016/04/13/uk-prime-minister-86166

PlatoSaid

Ishmael_X said:

peter_from_putney said:

Do other Pbers consider it rather unkind, as I do, to discover that Jeremy Corbyn is sometimes jokingly referred to as Steptoe on Guido Fawkes' site?

Yes and no - if you triangulate it against what they call everyone else it is actually quite innocuous and, relatively speaking, quite funny.

Paddy Ashdown called Leave voters 'brown shirts' earlier today ...

Tissue_Price

GIN1138 said:

Seems a more realistic assessment than The Don's!

There's a fair amount of wishful thinking in both, I'd say. The chances of Labour ever forming a majority government again have probably dipped below 50%.

SandyRentool

PlatoSaid said:

Ishmael_X said:

peter_from_putney said:

Do other Pbers consider it rather unkind, as I do, to discover that Jeremy Corbyn is sometimes jokingly referred to as Steptoe on Guido Fawkes' site?

Yes and no - if you triangulate it against what they call everyone else it is actually quite innocuous and, relatively speaking, quite funny.

Paddy Ashdown called Leave voters 'brown shirts' earlier today ...

Rather than brown shorts, brown socks and sandals.

DanSmith

MaxPB said:

Decent article, but if the Corbyn camp takes over the NEC and forces reselections on new boundaries, how do Labour recover after losing in 2020? The MPs will be much further to the left and less inclined to go for a Chucka or Dan.

The Tories are closing in on 200k members again @SouthamObserver! ABC might not be the second largest party soon.

Taking over the NEC is easier said than done.

MaxPB

TheScreamingEagles said:

Which PM are you quiz.

Apparently I'm Churchill

You booze hard and you're prone to long periods of depression. You speak your mind even if what you say isn't always politically correct. At certain times you're capable of astonishing leadership.

http://thetab.com/2016/04/13/uk-prime-minister-86166

Disraeli.

Can't copy on my phone, but I like power and money and can compromise.

GIN1138

TheScreamingEagles said:

Which PM are you quiz.

Apparently I'm Churchill

You booze hard and you're prone to long periods of depression. You speak your mind even if what you say isn't always politically correct. At certain times you're capable of astonishing leadership.

http://thetab.com/2016/04/13/uk-prime-minister-86166

I've come out as Sir Winston as well!

Cyclefree

FPT (in response to Mr Llama who posted this):-

""A heavy-metal-loving vicar has applied for an alcohol licence for his church, saying that Jesus "turned water into wine for a reason".

Father Tom Plant, who took over as vicar of St Michael's Church in Camden, north London, in January this year, is currently waiting to hear if his application will be accepted by Camden Council."

The Church of England can still be a gloriously eccentric organisation."

I sometimes think Jesus must have been Irish.

"Feck! You call this a weddin'? Where's the booze? You fellas fetch that Evian over here and we'll get it sorted."

[Deleted User]

TheScreamingEagles said:

Which PM are you quiz.

Apparently I'm Churchill

You booze hard and you're prone to long periods of depression. You speak your mind even if what you say isn't always politically correct. At certain times you're capable of astonishing leadership.

http://thetab.com/2016/04/13/uk-prime-minister-86166

I'm Palmerston. Cool!

HurstLlama

DavidL said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

I think Joff is broadly right in his assessment, but the question is: how long will it take for Labour to rid itself of the parasite which is eating away at it from the inside? It could be a very long time.

One minor quibble: Is it really the case that "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher"? I don't see any basis for that; if anything, she has been making policy statements which place her well to the left of Cameron on economic issues, corporate governance, income disparities, and equality legislation. It's a bit early to tell what the final mix will look like in practice, but at the moment it doesn't seem particularly right-wing at all.

Well to borrow from a certain Ed, it's pretty hard to judge a blank piece of paper. So far these are the policies I can think of from Mrs May.

1. Cancel Hinkley Point C
2. "Brexit means Brexit"
3. Maybe possibly somehow bring back grammar schools.

I think that sums it up. I hope her conference speech has more policy detail, it's a bit too sparse at the moment.

Also accepting that it is going to take many more years to bring in Universal Credit.
And a clear reluctance to take a decision on Heathrow.
And equivocation about HS2.
And an announcement that Osborne's deficit reduction plan is being abandoned without any stated alternative.
And more QE.

Not particularly right wing, not particularly decisive.

A change of leader is and should be a time for a rethink and to test some verities that have perhaps stood unchallenged for too long or to ditch policies which were attracting too much flak for any prospective benefit. That is entirely fair enough. But over the next few weeks we really need to get a clearer idea of what a May government is going to look like, what its priorities are and how it thinks it is going to change this country for the better. So far we barely have an inkling.

I think you are correct Mr L but perhaps being a tad unfair. TM became PM only a few weeks ago at a leadership election process that not many people expected (including probably her), right at the beginning of the Holiday season and in the run up to the economic crisis that was foretold by so many. Things for many, even on here, have settled down and the new term is starting.

I would hope that we will now, over the coming weeks and months, start to see where TM wants to take us. That said if she wants to run an administration that does not feel it necessary to come out with a policy (re)announcement every day then you will not find me complaining. A period of sober, sensible government would actually be most welcome.

Tissue_Price

That Don Brind gets everywhere:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/don-brind/labour-leadership-polling_b_11863598.html

Pulpstar

Tissue_Price said:

GIN1138 said:

Seems a more realistic assessment than The Don's!

There's a fair amount of wishful thinking in both, I'd say. The chances of Labour ever forming a majority government again have probably dipped below 50%.

The Tories won't have a majority in perpetuity. Long term liberal revival, or UKIP - or someone else ?

TheScreamingEagles

DavidL said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

I think Joff is broadly right in his assessment, but the question is: how long will it take for Labour to rid itself of the parasite which is eating away at it from the inside? It could be a very long time.

One minor quibble: Is it really the case that "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher"? I don't see any basis for that; if anything, she has been making policy statements which place her well to the left of Cameron on economic issues, corporate governance, income disparities, and equality legislation. It's a bit early to tell what the final mix will look like in practice, but at the moment it doesn't seem particularly right-wing at all.

Well to borrow from a certain Ed, it's pretty hard to judge a blank piece of paper. So far these are the policies I can think of from Mrs May.

1. Cancel Hinkley Point C
2. "Brexit means Brexit"
3. Maybe possibly somehow bring back grammar schools.

I think that sums it up. I hope her conference speech has more policy detail, it's a bit too sparse at the moment.

Also accepting that it is going to take many more years to bring in Universal Credit.
And a clear reluctance to take a decision on Heathrow.
And equivocation about HS2.
And an announcement that Osborne's deficit reduction plan is being abandoned without any stated alternative.
And more QE.

Not particularly right wing, not particularly decisive.

A change of leader is and should be a time for a rethink and to test some verities that have perhaps stood unchallenged for too long or to ditch policies which were attracting too much flak for any prospective benefit. That is entirely fair enough. But over the next few weeks we really need to get a clearer idea of what a May government is going to look like, what its priorities are and how it thinks it is going to change this country for the better. So far we barely have an inkling.

I think we'll see at conference what sort of Government she'll lead.

The other pivotal moment will be Hammond's Autumn Statement.

PlatoSaid

Cyclefree said:

FPT (in response to Mr Llama who posted this):-

""A heavy-metal-loving vicar has applied for an alcohol licence for his church, saying that Jesus "turned water into wine for a reason".

Father Tom Plant, who took over as vicar of St Michael's Church in Camden, north London, in January this year, is currently waiting to hear if his application will be accepted by Camden Council."

The Church of England can still be a gloriously eccentric organisation."

I sometimes think Jesus must have been Irish.

"Feck! You call this a weddin'? Where's the booze? You fellas fetch that Evian over here and we'll get it sorted."

IIRC, a 'wake' was originally about the fear of being buried alive by accident - and also behind the phrase to 'ring a bell' - a coffin dweller had a string to pull in case they came round whilst 6 feet under.

Blue_rog

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Which PM are you quiz.

Apparently I'm Churchill

You booze hard and you're prone to long periods of depression. You speak your mind even if what you say isn't always politically correct. At certain times you're capable of astonishing leadership.

http://thetab.com/2016/04/13/uk-prime-minister-86166

I've come out as Sir Winston as well!

and me hic

GIN1138

Tissue_Price said:

That Don Brind gets everywhere:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/don-brind/labour-leadership-polling_b_11863598.html

He's turning into the Dan Hodges of this parliament!

HurstLlama

Cyclefree said:

FPT (in response to Mr Llama who posted this):-

""A heavy-metal-loving vicar has applied for an alcohol licence for his church, saying that Jesus "turned water into wine for a reason".

Father Tom Plant, who took over as vicar of St Michael's Church in Camden, north London, in January this year, is currently waiting to hear if his application will be accepted by Camden Council."

The Church of England can still be a gloriously eccentric organisation."

I sometimes think Jesus must have been Irish.

"Feck! You call this a weddin'? Where's the booze? You fellas fetch that Evian over here and we'll get it sorted."

TCPoliticalBetting

Gardenwalker said:

Patrick said:

Southam is right. Labour will, of course, survive.

That's the problem. What will also therefore survive is the lack of a decent opposition. What will survive is the misogynistic, nannying, anti-Semitic effluent that is today's Labour party. They can't win, they can't think, they can't oppose but they can't die either. They're undead. A zombie party. Goes down a treat in Islington.

So, hopefully Labour survives post a zombie apocalypse.
But what happens in the meantime. 4 years (till 2020) is a long time for May to have free rein. ..... May truly has an opportunity for a sweeping, transformative, one nation policy agenda.
But can't really see it coming from Mrs Cautious, aka Brown in kitten heels, and her gang of misfits. I hope I'm wrong.

You could be right. We will get some signs in Hammond's financial statements and whether he is captured (as usual) by civil servants.

PlatoSaid

Patrick said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Which PM are you quiz.

Apparently I'm Churchill

You booze hard and you're prone to long periods of depression. You speak your mind even if what you say isn't always politically correct. At certain times you're capable of astonishing leadership.

http://thetab.com/2016/04/13/uk-prime-minister-86166

I'm Palmerston. Cool!

I got Churchill.

MaxPB

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

I think Joff is broadly right in his assessment, but the question is: how long will it take for Labour to rid itself of the parasite which is eating away at it from the inside? It could be a very long time.

One minor quibble: Is it really the case that "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher"? I don't see any basis for that; if anything, she has been making policy statements which place her well to the left of Cameron on economic issues, corporate governance, income disparities, and equality legislation. It's a bit early to tell what the final mix will look like in practice, but at the moment it doesn't seem particularly right-wing at all.

Well to borrow from a certain Ed, it's pretty hard to judge a blank piece of paper. So far these are the policies I can think of from Mrs May.

1. Cancel Hinkley Point C
2. "Brexit means Brexit"
3. Maybe possibly somehow bring back grammar schools.

I think that sums it up. I hope her conference speech has more policy detail, it's a bit too sparse at the moment.

Also accepting that it is going to take many more years to bring in Universal Credit.
And a clear reluctance to take a decision on Heathrow.
And equivocation about HS2.
And an announcement that Osborne's deficit reduction plan is being abandoned without any stated alternative.
And more QE.

Not particularly right wing, not particularly decisive.

A change of leader is and should be a time for a rethink and to test some verities that have perhaps stood unchallenged for too long or to ditch policies which were attracting too much flak for any prospective benefit. That is entirely fair enough. But over the next few weeks we really need to get a clearer idea of what a May government is going to look like, what its priorities are and how it thinks it is going to change this country for the better. So far we barely have an inkling.

I think we'll see at conference what sort of Government she'll lead.

The other pivotal moment will be Hammond's Autumn Statement.

The OBR EFO will be hugely important, there will be lots of interesting data to mull over.

Pulpstar

w

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

I think Joff is broadly right in his assessment, but the question is: how long will it take for Labour to rid itself of the parasite which is eating away at it from the inside? It could be a very long time.

One minor quibble: Is it really the case that "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher"? I don't see any basis for that; if anything, she has been making policy statements which place her well to the left of Cameron on economic issues, corporate governance, income disparities, and equality legislation. It's a bit early to tell what the final mix will look like in practice, but at the moment it doesn't seem particularly right-wing at all.

Well to borrow from a certain Ed, it's pretty hard to judge a blank piece of paper. So far these are the policies I can think of from Mrs May.

1. Cancel Hinkley Point C
2. "Brexit means Brexit"
3. Maybe possibly somehow bring back grammar schools.

I think that sums it up. I hope her conference speech has more policy detail, it's a bit too sparse at the moment.

Also accepting that it is going to take many more years to bring in Universal Credit.
And a clear reluctance to take a decision on Heathrow.
And equivocation about HS2.
And an announcement that Osborne's deficit reduction plan is being abandoned without any stated alternative.
And more QE.

Not particularly right wing, not particularly decisive.

A change of leader is and should be a time for a rethink and to test some verities that have perhaps stood unchallenged for too long or to ditch policies which were attracting too much flak for any prospective benefit. That is entirely fair enough. But over the next few weeks we really need to get a clearer idea of what a May government is going to look like, what its priorities are and how it thinks it is going to change this country for the better. So far we barely have an inkling.

I think we'll see at conference what sort of Government she'll lead.

The other pivotal moment will be Hammond's Autumn Statement.

That'll be the one where I realise just how much I miss George Osborne

I remember in all his budgets thinking "This is ok for me actually"

GIN1138

PlatoSaid said:

Patrick said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Which PM are you quiz.

Apparently I'm Churchill

You booze hard and you're prone to long periods of depression. You speak your mind even if what you say isn't always politically correct. At certain times you're capable of astonishing leadership.

http://thetab.com/2016/04/13/uk-prime-minister-86166

I'm Palmerston. Cool!

I got Churchill.

Either the thing is fixed or we're all drunks on PB!

DanSmith

Tissue_Price said:

That Don Brind gets everywhere:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/don-brind/labour-leadership-polling_b_11863598.html

YouGov did get the registered voters wrong by quite a lot last time, could happen again, very tough to poll.

weejonnie

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Which PM are you quiz.

Apparently I'm Churchill

You booze hard and you're prone to long periods of depression. You speak your mind even if what you say isn't always politically correct. At certain times you're capable of astonishing leadership.

http://thetab.com/2016/04/13/uk-prime-minister-86166

I've come out as Sir Winston as well!

William Pitt The Younger.

"Cold, haughty and distant, you struggle to make time for other people. You put work above everything and you've got used to being successful from a young age. You'll die young and your three bottles of port a night habit will probably be the reason why. "

Which is odd as I am virtually teetotal and aged 55.

Tissue_Price

Pulpstar said:

Tissue_Price said:

GIN1138 said:

Seems a more realistic assessment than The Don's!

There's a fair amount of wishful thinking in both, I'd say. The chances of Labour ever forming a majority government again have probably dipped below 50%.

The Tories won't have a majority in perpetuity. Long term liberal revival, or UKIP - or someone else ?

Maybe someone else. Mind you Labour would still be favourite, perhaps via a coalition in which they devour their junior partner.

Next non-Conservative single-party majority government:

Labour 5/4
UKIP 7/1
Lib Dems 12/1
Other 3/1

Paid-on bets only

PlatoSaid

GIN1138 said:

PlatoSaid said:

Patrick said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Which PM are you quiz.

Apparently I'm Churchill

You booze hard and you're prone to long periods of depression. You speak your mind even if what you say isn't always politically correct. At certain times you're capable of astonishing leadership.

http://thetab.com/2016/04/13/uk-prime-minister-86166

I'm Palmerston. Cool!

I got Churchill.

Either the thing is fixed or we're all drunks on PB!

*hic*

eek

Pulpstar said:

w

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

I think Joff is broadly right in his assessment, but the question is: how long will it take for Labour to rid itself of the parasite which is eating away at it from the inside? It could be a very long time.

One minor quibble: Is it really the case that "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher"? I don't see any basis for that; if anything, she has been making policy statements which place her well to the left of Cameron on economic issues, corporate governance, income disparities, and equality legislation. It's a bit early to tell what the final mix will look like in practice, but at the moment it doesn't seem particularly right-wing at all.

Well to borrow from a certain Ed, it's pretty hard to judge a blank piece of paper. So far these are the policies I can think of from Mrs May.

1. Cancel Hinkley Point C
2. "Brexit means Brexit"
3. Maybe possibly somehow bring back grammar schools.

I think that sums it up. I hope her conference speech has more policy detail, it's a bit too sparse at the moment.

Also accepting that it is going to take many more years to bring in Universal Credit.
And a clear reluctance to take a decision on Heathrow.
And equivocation about HS2.
And an announcement that Osborne's deficit reduction plan is being abandoned without any stated alternative.
And more QE.

Not particularly right wing, not particularly decisive.

A change of leader is and should be a time for a rethink and to test some verities that have perhaps stood unchallenged for too long or to ditch policies which were attracting too much flak for any prospective benefit. That is entirely fair enough. But over the next few weeks we really need to get a clearer idea of what a May government is going to look like, what its priorities are and how it thinks it is going to change this country for the better. So far we barely have an inkling.

I think we'll see at conference what sort of Government she'll lead.

The other pivotal moment will be Hammond's Autumn Statement.

That'll be the one where I realise just how much I miss George Osborne

I remember in all his budgets thinking "This is ok for me actually"

I find the details where they continually show that they don't understand how the freelance market works far more painful....

Tissue_Price

DanSmith said:

Tissue_Price said:

That Don Brind gets everywhere:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/don-brind/labour-leadership-polling_b_11863598.html

YouGov did get the registered voters wrong by quite a lot last time, could happen again, very tough to poll.

Yes. It's that 120k figure I don't trust, though.

FF43

HurstLlama said:

MaxPB said:

Patrick said:

Has May cancelled Hinckley C? (I think she should but I didn't think she had)

It's being reviewed, and judging by the Chinese reaction in Chengdu they've been told it's cancelled.

If HMG have really informed the Chinese then I think that is shocking bad form. The people of this country, especially those who are sitting investment decisions, have as much right to know as the Chinese.

I suspect Theresa May is stalling on Hinkley Point in the hope that the deal will collapse of its own accord. Thus freeing her of the embarrassment of explicitly telling China she doesn't trust them. As far as I know she has put no deadline on the "security review"

rottenborough

GIN1138 said:

Tissue_Price said:

That Don Brind gets everywhere:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/don-brind/labour-leadership-polling_b_11863598.html

He's turning into the Dan Hodges of this parliament!

I was beginning to wonder if Dan had signed off twitter, when this arrived:

(((Dan Hodges))) ‏@DPJHodges 6h6 hours ago
Been away for a couple of weeks. Brexit going well, Labour doing well, I presume?

Pulpstar

Palmerston for me.

JackW

GIN1138 said:

Either the thing is fixed or we're all drunks on PB!

I take it your moniker details the measures of mothers ruin you consume monthly ...

DanSmith

Tissue_Price said:

DanSmith said:

Tissue_Price said:

That Don Brind gets everywhere:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/don-brind/labour-leadership-polling_b_11863598.html

YouGov did get the registered voters wrong by quite a lot last time, could happen again, very tough to poll.

Yes. It's that 120k figure I don't trust, though.

The thing that the anti-Corbyn faction need to accept is that Corbyn isn't winning because of registered voters (although they are helping). He won last year with the members and he's going to win again this year with the members.

MaxPB

Finally, Samuel Tombs has arrived to provide is with some perspective, you can all stop wondering what the latest spin on good news is.

https://twitter.com/samueltombs/status/772717527852015617

nunu

Tissue_Price said:

That Don Brind gets everywhere:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/don-brind/labour-leadership-polling_b_11863598.html

Brind is Alastair Campbell and I claim my £3.

taffys

""A heavy-metal-loving vicar has applied for an alcohol licence for his church, saying that Jesus "turned water into wine for a reason".

He not only turned water into wine. At the Last Supper he went out of his way to link wine with his own blood.

Christians not only CAN drink, you could argue that the message is they should. Many committed Christians drink every Sunday at communion.

Even methodists don't completely ban drinking any more, although its still frowned upon.

FF43

Pulpstar said:

Palmerston for me.

Me too, but then it says I "You love shagging and you love conflict. You're capable of speaking for hours on end, mainly about what a great place England is. Your answer to most questions is to get the Royal Navy to shoot it" I'm not convinced.

HurstLlama

FF43 said:

HurstLlama said:

MaxPB said:

Patrick said:

Has May cancelled Hinckley C? (I think she should but I didn't think she had)

It's being reviewed, and judging by the Chinese reaction in Chengdu they've been told it's cancelled.

If HMG have really informed the Chinese then I think that is shocking bad form. The people of this country, especially those who are sitting investment decisions, have as much right to know as the Chinese.

I suspect Theresa May is stalling on Hinkley Point in the hope that the deal will collapse of its own accord. Thus freeing her of the embarrassment of explicitly telling China she doesn't trust them. As far as I know she has put no deadline on the "security review"

Well I did see a tweet last week that said five directors of EDF were suing their own company in an attempt to get the project binned. No Idea if it was was correct as I could not find another source.

As for telling the Chinese that would be easy peasy. You simply say that having reviewed the project you don't trust the French. After all the Frogs have not yet managed to get one of these reactors working and both the one in Finland and the one in France are both years late and massively over budget. So thanks for the offer of financial support, but the UK will not be building any more such power plants.

Then give Moltex the support they have been asking for, and rebuild our own industry.

MaxPB

FF43 said:

HurstLlama said:

MaxPB said:

Patrick said:

Has May cancelled Hinckley C? (I think she should but I didn't think she had)

It's being reviewed, and judging by the Chinese reaction in Chengdu they've been told it's cancelled.

If HMG have really informed the Chinese then I think that is shocking bad form. The people of this country, especially those who are sitting investment decisions, have as much right to know as the Chinese.

I suspect Theresa May is stalling on Hinkley Point in the hope that the deal will collapse of its own accord. Thus freeing her of the embarrassment of explicitly telling China she doesn't trust them. As far as I know she has put no deadline on the "security review"

There's probably something in that.

PlatoSaid

Quentin Letts
Utter silence in Chamber as Vaz asks a question (about some terrorism issue). A silence cold as an icicle.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Llama, sounds sensible.

Probably won't happen.

May still has the opportunity (in general terms) to set her own course, but if she doesn't start soon it'll look like the ship of state is being buffeted by Zeitgeist zephyrs.

TheScreamingEagles

FF43 said:

Pulpstar said:

Palmerston for me.

Me too, but then it says I "You love shagging and you love conflict. You're capable of speaking for hours on end, mainly about what a great place England is. Your answer to most questions is to get the Royal Navy to shoot it" I'm not convinced.

I'm more Palmerston than I am Churchill

TheScreamingEagles

Pulpstar said:

w

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

I think Joff is broadly right in his assessment, but the question is: how long will it take for Labour to rid itself of the parasite which is eating away at it from the inside? It could be a very long time.

One minor quibble: Is it really the case that "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher"? I don't see any basis for that; if anything, she has been making policy statements which place her well to the left of Cameron on economic issues, corporate governance, income disparities, and equality legislation. It's a bit early to tell what the final mix will look like in practice, but at the moment it doesn't seem particularly right-wing at all.

Well to borrow from a certain Ed, it's pretty hard to judge a blank piece of paper. So far these are the policies I can think of from Mrs May.

1. Cancel Hinkley Point C
2. "Brexit means Brexit"
3. Maybe possibly somehow bring back grammar schools.

I think that sums it up. I hope her conference speech has more policy detail, it's a bit too sparse at the moment.

Also accepting that it is going to take many more years to bring in Universal Credit.
And a clear reluctance to take a decision on Heathrow.
And equivocation about HS2.
And an announcement that Osborne's deficit reduction plan is being abandoned without any stated alternative.
And more QE.

Not particularly right wing, not particularly decisive.

A change of leader is and should be a time for a rethink and to test some verities that have perhaps stood unchallenged for too long or to ditch policies which were attracting too much flak for any prospective benefit. That is entirely fair enough. But over the next few weeks we really need to get a clearer idea of what a May government is going to look like, what its priorities are and how it thinks it is going to change this country for the better. So far we barely have an inkling.

I think we'll see at conference what sort of Government she'll lead.

The other pivotal moment will be Hammond's Autumn Statement.

That'll be the one where I realise just how much I miss George Osborne

I remember in all his budgets thinking "This is ok for me actually"

See! My piece last week comparing Osborne to Churchill was prescient.

[Deleted User]

TheScreamingEagles said:

FF43 said:

Pulpstar said:

Palmerston for me.

Me too, but then it says I "You love shagging and you love conflict. You're capable of speaking for hours on end, mainly about what a great place England is. Your answer to most questions is to get the Royal Navy to shoot it" I'm not convinced.

I'm more Palmerston than I am Churchill

You must have put booze as your preferred vice not womanising!

DavidL

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

I think Joff is broadly right in his assessment, but the question is: how long will it take for Labour to rid itself of the parasite which is eating away at it from the inside? It could be a very long time.

One minor quibble: Is it really the case that "Theresa May’s government is undoubtedly far more right wing than any we have seen since the time of Margaret Thatcher"? I don't see any basis for that; if anything, she has been making policy statements which place her well to the left of Cameron on economic issues, corporate governance, income disparities, and equality legislation. It's a bit early to tell what the final mix will look like in practice, but at the moment it doesn't seem particularly right-wing at all.

Well to borrow from a certain Ed, it's pretty hard to judge a blank piece of paper. So far these are the policies I can think of from Mrs May.

1. Cancel Hinkley Point C
2. "Brexit means Brexit"
3. Maybe possibly somehow bring back grammar schools.

I think that sums it up. I hope her conference speech has more policy detail, it's a bit too sparse at the moment.

Also accepting that it is going to take many more years to bring in Universal Credit.
And a clear reluctance to take a decision on Heathrow.
And equivocation about HS2.
And an announcement that Osborne's deficit reduction plan is being abandoned without any stated alternative.
And more QE.

Not particularly right wing, not particularly decisive.

A change of leader is and should be a time for a rethink and to test some verities that have perhaps stood unchallenged for too long or to ditch policies which were attracting too much flak for any prospective benefit. That is entirely fair enough. But over the next few weeks we really need to get a clearer idea of what a May government is going to look like, what its priorities are and how it thinks it is going to change this country for the better. So far we barely have an inkling.

I think we'll see at conference what sort of Government she'll lead.

The other pivotal moment will be Hammond's Autumn Statement.

Yeah, the latter should be even more important than the former.

Tissue_Price

PlatoSaid said:

Quentin Letts
Utter silence in Chamber as Vaz asks a question (about some terrorism issue). A silence cold as an icicle.

It was good of him to pop in.

DavidL

HurstLlama said:

DavidL said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

.

Also accepting that it is going to take many more years to bring in Universal Credit.
And a clear reluctance to take a decision on Heathrow.
And equivocation about HS2.
And an announcement that Osborne's deficit reduction plan is being abandoned without any stated alternative.
And more QE.

Not particularly right wing, not particularly decisive.

A change of leader is and should be a time for a rethink and to test some verities that have perhaps stood unchallenged for too long or to ditch policies which were attracting too much flak for any prospective benefit. That is entirely fair enough. But over the next few weeks we really need to get a clearer idea of what a May government is going to look like, what its priorities are and how it thinks it is going to change this country for the better. So far we barely have an inkling.

I think you are correct Mr L but perhaps being a tad unfair. TM became PM only a few weeks ago at a leadership election process that not many people expected (including probably her), right at the beginning of the Holiday season and in the run up to the economic crisis that was foretold by so many. Things for many, even on here, have settled down and the new term is starting.

I would hope that we will now, over the coming weeks and months, start to see where TM wants to take us. That said if she wants to run an administration that does not feel it necessary to come out with a policy (re)announcement every day then you will not find me complaining. A period of sober, sensible government would actually be most welcome.

I am not being unfair or even particularly negative. I fully accept that she needed a bit of time to get her feet under the table, especially when the leadership election was so truncated. I just feel that time is coming to an end and look forward to her announcements and decisions in the coming weeks.

DaemonBarber

That banner on the main thread picture: Chat Shit, Get Sacked...

I think Ice-T says it better (NSFW natch):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sokdL-0iV9s

Richard_Nabavi

DavidL said:

I am not being unfair or even particularly negative. I fully accept that she needed a bit of time to get her feet under the table, especially when the leadership election was so truncated. I just feel that time is coming to an end and look forward to her announcements and decisions in the coming weeks.

It seems an age ago now, but under the original timetable for the Conservative leadership contest, we wouldn't be expecting to hear the result until this coming Friday 9th Sept.

I have no doubt that the rapid resolution of the next PM (and Chancellor) question, and the fact that both positions went into safe hands, have been significant factors in reducing any immediate economic hit from the referendum result.

HurstLlama

Patrick said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FF43 said:

Pulpstar said:

Palmerston for me.

Me too, but then it says I "You love shagging and you love conflict. You're capable of speaking for hours on end, mainly about what a great place England is. Your answer to most questions is to get the Royal Navy to shoot it" I'm not convinced.

I'm more Palmerston than I am Churchill

You must have put booze as your preferred vice not womanising!

Crikey, is that not just a factor of age. As a young man I would have prioritised shagging over drinking (except, possibly, on rugger match days). Now, I think I'd sooner have a glass of whisky - far less stressful.

MaxPB

DaemonBarber said:

That banner on the main thread picture: Chat Shit, Get Sacked...

I think Ice-T says it better (NSFW natch):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sokdL-0iV9s

It's Jamie Vardy iirc, "chat shit get banged".

MaxPB

Richard_Nabavi said:

DavidL said:

I am not being unfair or even particularly negative. I fully accept that she needed a bit of time to get her feet under the table, especially when the leadership election was so truncated. I just feel that time is coming to an end and look forward to her announcements and decisions in the coming weeks.

It seems an age ago now, but under the original timetable for the Conservative leadership contest, we wouldn't be expecting to hear the result until this coming Friday 9th Sept.

I have no doubt that the rapid resolution of the next PM (and Chancellor) question, and the fact that both positions went into safe hands, have been a significant factor in reducing any immediate economic hit from the referendum result.

It does show the difference between the party for grown ups and the party for children.

DavidL

Richard_Nabavi said:

DavidL said:

I am not being unfair or even particularly negative. I fully accept that she needed a bit of time to get her feet under the table, especially when the leadership election was so truncated. I just feel that time is coming to an end and look forward to her announcements and decisions in the coming weeks.

It seems an age ago now, but under the original timetable for the Conservative leadership contest, we wouldn't be expecting to hear the result until this coming Friday 9th Sept.

I have no doubt that the rapid resolution of the next PM (and Chancellor) question, and the fact that both positions went into safe hands, have been a significant factor in reducing any immediate economic hit from the referendum result.

Agreed. To be frank I think it was a bit irresponsible of Cameron to take that step at that point and it certainly added greatly to the impact of the vote. Thankfully there does not appear to be any long term damage.

Hopefully she had plenty of time to think whilst walking the Swiss hills.

Anorak

TheScreamingEagles said:

Regarding Keith Vaz, I'm putting an end to any speculation about him, and posts regarding him now have to come from a reputable UK based news organisation. (Order Order doesn't count)

Legal letters are flying about, and I'm sure no one wants to get Mike into trouble

Am I allowed to state that I'm enjoying the on- and off-line media coverage of Mr Vaz immensely? 'Cos I am.

DavidL

Tissue_Price said:

PlatoSaid said:

Quentin Letts
Utter silence in Chamber as Vaz asks a question (about some terrorism issue). A silence cold as an icicle.

It was good of him to pop in.

Did the Speaker really have to call him today? Its amazing how many of the photos of Vaz used by the media have the Speaker in them.

dr_spyn

Seems churlish not to share this one.

https://twitter.com/nedsimons/status/772801206620131329

Mr Burnham looks confused.

TheScreamingEagles

DavidL said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

DavidL said:

I am not being unfair or even particularly negative. I fully accept that she needed a bit of time to get her feet under the table, especially when the leadership election was so truncated. I just feel that time is coming to an end and look forward to her announcements and decisions in the coming weeks.

It seems an age ago now, but under the original timetable for the Conservative leadership contest, we wouldn't be expecting to hear the result until this coming Friday 9th Sept.

I have no doubt that the rapid resolution of the next PM (and Chancellor) question, and the fact that both positions went into safe hands, have been a significant factor in reducing any immediate economic hit from the referendum result.

Agreed. To be frank I think it was a bit irresponsible of Cameron to take that step at that point and it certainly added greatly to the impact of the vote. Thankfully there does not appear to be any long term damage.

Hopefully she had plenty of time to think whilst walking the Swiss hills.

He had no choice but to quit on June 24th.

The usual suspects would have triggered a vote of no confidence in him (which he probably would have still won, but with enough rebels to make his position doubly untenable)

Additionally can you imagine how Leavers would have reacted if Dave had tried to implement Brexit. They'd be screaming betrayal if Dave ordered for breakfast a continental breakfast and not a full English.

kle4

Another teetotaller pegged as Pitt the Younger. Curious.

DaemonBarber

MaxPB said:

DaemonBarber said:

That banner on the main thread picture: Chat Shit, Get Sacked...

I think Ice-T says it better (NSFW natch):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sokdL-0iV9s

It's Jamie Vardy iirc, "chat shit get banged".

I'm sure the Bodycount version was first...

Tissue_Price

DavidL said:

Tissue_Price said:

PlatoSaid said:

Quentin Letts
Utter silence in Chamber as Vaz asks a question (about some terrorism issue). A silence cold as an icicle.

It was good of him to pop in.

Did the Speaker really have to call him today? Its amazing how many of the photos of Vaz used by the media have the Speaker in them.

Well he remains Chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee so it is right and proper that he always gets to ask a question of the Home Secretary.

MaxPB

Just caught up with Paddy Ashdown's brownshirt remarks. Do the Lib Dems not have the capability of putting the old fool out to pasture. He made a tit of himself in May last year and again after the referendum. If he wants to call leave voters brownshirts then I think calling remain voters quisling traitors is fair game. I think it is clear that Paddy, at least, is a traitor and would sell this country down the river to get himself on the EU gravy train like Kinnock. It's a shame that treason is no longer a real crime in this country, Blair obviously knew what he was doing.

DavidL

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

DavidL said:

I am not being unfair or even particularly negative. I fully accept that she needed a bit of time to get her feet under the table, especially when the leadership election was so truncated. I just feel that time is coming to an end and look forward to her announcements and decisions in the coming weeks.

It seems an age ago now, but under the original timetable for the Conservative leadership contest, we wouldn't be expecting to hear the result until this coming Friday 9th Sept.

I have no doubt that the rapid resolution of the next PM (and Chancellor) question, and the fact that both positions went into safe hands, have been a significant factor in reducing any immediate economic hit from the referendum result.

Agreed. To be frank I think it was a bit irresponsible of Cameron to take that step at that point and it certainly added greatly to the impact of the vote. Thankfully there does not appear to be any long term damage.

Hopefully she had plenty of time to think whilst walking the Swiss hills.

He had no choice but to quit on June 24th.

The usual suspects would have triggered a vote of no confidence in him (which he probably would have still won, but with enough rebels to make his position doubly untenable)

Additionally can you imagine how Leavers would have reacted if Dave had tried to implement Brexit. They'd be screaming betrayal if Dave ordered for breakfast a continental breakfast and not a full English.

Most the Brexiteers were urging him not to resign. He had already announced that he was standing down before the next election. I don't think that there would have been any immediate outcry. But losing a dominant PM and Chancellor in immediate response to such a decision was not helpful.

DavidL

dr_spyn said:

Seems churlish not to share this one.

https://twitter.com/nedsimons/status/772801206620131329

Mr Burnham looks confused.

Any more than usual? I find it hard to tell.

Cyclefree

HurstLlama said:

Patrick said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FF43 said:

Pulpstar said:

Palmerston for me.

Me too, but then it says I "You love shagging and you love conflict. You're capable of speaking for hours on end, mainly about what a great place England is. Your answer to most questions is to get the Royal Navy to shoot it" I'm not convinced.

I'm more Palmerston than I am Churchill

You must have put booze as your preferred vice not womanising!

Crikey, is that not just a factor of age. As a young man I would have prioritised shagging over drinking (except, possibly, on rugger match days). Now, I think I'd sooner have a glass of whisky - far less stressful.

Dear me! It's not either/or. It's one before the other and often after as well and, if you so desire, during.

HurstLlama

DavidL said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

DavidL said:

I am not being unfair or even particularly negative. I fully accept that she needed a bit of time to get her feet under the table, especially when the leadership election was so truncated. I just feel that time is coming to an end and look forward to her announcements and decisions in the coming weeks.

It seems an age ago now, but under the original timetable for the Conservative leadership contest, we wouldn't be expecting to hear the result until this coming Friday 9th Sept.

I have no doubt that the rapid resolution of the next PM (and Chancellor) question, and the fact that both positions went into safe hands, have been a significant factor in reducing any immediate economic hit from the referendum result.

Agreed. To be frank I think it was a bit irresponsible of Cameron to take that step at that point and it certainly added greatly to the impact of the vote. Thankfully there does not appear to be any long term damage.

Hopefully she had plenty of time to think whilst walking the Swiss hills.

Re Cameron. Probably you are right but it just went to show the depth of the man. Unsound from the start as some of us on here tried to explain. He was never really up to the job but probably the best of the bunch at the time he got it.

I do hope you are right about TM thinking whilst she was walking. I have had some of my best and most constructive ideas doing just that. As did Mozart. Movement and good thinking seem to go together.

MarqueeMark

Some of us on here did predict that there would be no post-Brexit house-price slump. Rather, that the fall in the pound would see foreign buyers piling in at bargain prices. And lo, it came to pass:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-37260267