200K is not enough for within M25. But you know that already
In the South East of England, you can still do Winchester if you can do flats. You can't do posh Home Counties, so no Haslemere or Guildford. You might be able to do Petersfield, which is nice. Try to avoid the South Coast of England: whether it's Hastings, Brighton, Bognor, Portsmouth, Bournemouth, Sandbanks, it's the same mishmash with varying degrees of prosperity, and as you already live in Eastbourne, there's no real point in the move.
Moving to the South West, things pick up. Ignore seaside towns but little market towns are always good I feel. Devizes is nice, Shaftesbury has lots of new builds, Tisbury is lovely, Blandford Forum is also good. Bear in mind that some of these places are genuinely isolated (no buses after six, few taxi services, not on the rail network). They give off a fifties vibe: it makes my skin itch but you're Ukippy so (unsarcastically) that's probably not a problem.
Avoid spa towns: so no Royal Tunbridge Wells, and possibly Bath as well. They carry a premium which they don't deserve.
Let's go further up. Swindon is frowned on by metropolitan sof-is-ti-cates, but f**kem: it's perfectly decent and outstanding transport links. Thames Corridor is outside your budget, but you might be able to do Banbury. Don't do Stratford-upon-Avon unless you like tourists.
Moving to Wales. You might still be able to do Cardiff. Do not do Newport...just don't. The Valleys is cheap but too poor. Swansea, Llanelli...well yes, but why bother? The West Coast is easily affordable but are very isolated. North Wales is an improvement and transport links to Liverpool is good but suffers from the perennial Welsh problem of lovely scenery and rubbish architecture. Mid-West Wales (Brecon and north) is genuinely lovely, but like Dorset you do have isolation problems.
I oddly like Liverpool, for reasons I don't understand, and it is cheap. But that's a me-thing and I don't think it can be unreservedly recommended. Manchester is nice and vibrant, tho' the chip on its shoulder is never far from the surface and the accent takes some getting used to...
In terms of Wales, I'd throw in a pitch for the Newport Levels. Used to be unbearable due to Llanwern. Problem is property availability. Newport itself is two hours from London, with a 30 minute service.
You can buy a palace in the Dakotas for that sort of money, especially now the fracking industry is on hold.
While Surbiton and the rest of the Labour electorate make up their own minds and those who joined the party just to sabotage it (whether Conservative or not) decide how much further the knife can be twisted, what if Owen Smith wins ?
I've not really followed his pronouncements but that wouldn't be the point. His Shadow Cabinet would see the return of many who are unable or unwilling to serve under Corbyn. I suspect the next stage would be rule changes to restore the primacy of the PLP and reduce the prospect of the Corynite dissidents being able to regain control of the party.
Smith will have a mountain to climb in terms of Prime Ministerial credibility but members of his Shadow Cabinet might find the likes of Hammond, Rudd and others rather easier to take on while Curly, Mo and Larry will provide plenty of entertainment as we blunder our way out of the EU.
I've not got a dog in this race on any level and if Corbyn remains leader it will be hard to argue with a man who has twice won a full election of the party membership as distinct from a Prime Minister who couldn't get 2/3 of her own MPs to support her..
200K is not enough for within M25. But you know that already
In the South East of England, you can still do Winchester if you can do flats. You can't do posh Home Counties, so no Haslemere or Guildford. You might be able to do Petersfield, which is nice. Try to avoid the South Coast of England: whether it's Hastings, Brighton, Bognor, Portsmouth, Bournemouth, Sandbanks, it's the same mishmash with varying degrees of prosperity, and as you already live in Eastbourne, there's no real point in the move.
Moving to the South West, things pick up. Ignore seaside towns but little market towns are always good I feel. Devizes is nice, Shaftesbury has lots of new builds, Tisbury is lovely, Blandford Forum is also good. Bear in mind that some of these places are genuinely isolated (no buses after six, few taxi services, not on the rail network). They give off a fifties vibe: it makes my skin itch but you're Ukippy so (unsarcastically) that's probably not a problem.
Avoid spa towns: so no Royal Tunbridge Wells, and possibly Bath as well. They carry a premium which they don't deserve.
Let's go further up. Swindon is frowned on by metropolitan sof-is-ti-cates, but f**kem: it's perfectly decent and outstanding transport links. Thames Corridor is outside your budget, but you might be able to do Banbury. Don't do Stratford-upon-Avon unless you like tourists.
Moving to Wales. You might still be able to do Cardiff. Do not do Newport...just don't. The Valleys is cheap but too poor. Swansea, Llanelli...well yes, but why bother? The West Coast is easily affordable but are very isolated. North Wales is an improvement and transport links to Liverpool is good but suffers from the perennial Welsh problem of lovely scenery and rubbish architecture. Mid-West Wales (Brecon and north) is genuinely lovely, but like Dorset you do have isolation problems.
I oddly like Liverpool, for reasons I don't understand, and it is cheap. But that's a me-thing and I don't think it can be unreservedly recommended. Manchester is nice and vibrant, tho' the chip on its shoulder is never far from the surface and the accent takes some getting used to...
In terms of Wales, I'd throw in a pitch for the Newport Levels. Used to be unbearable due to Llanwern. Problem is property availability. Newport itself is two hours from London, with a 30 minute service.
You can buy a palace in the Dakotas for that sort of money, especially now the fracking industry is on hold.
I have just opened an envelope from the Labour Party. A ballot paper is enclosed with two names on it.
CORBYN. Jeremy SMITH, Owen
What am I to do ?
If being loyal to Marx's legacy comes before all else in your considerations vote for Corbyn, if trying to hold onto voters who voted for Ed Miliband is a priority, before even attempting to appeal to Tories, vote for Smith
Maybe, instead of writing "What am I to do ?", I should have written:
"What should I do, dear Liza, dear Liza ?"
Certainly rather a large hole in your party's bucket
200K is not enough for within M25. But you know that already
In the South East of England, you can still do Winchester if you can do flats. You can't do posh Home Counties, so no Haslemere or Guildford. You might be able to do Petersfield, which is nice. Try to avoid the South Coast of England: whether it's Hastings, Brighton, Bognor, Portsmouth, Bournemouth, Sandbanks, it's the same mishmash with varying degrees of prosperity, and as you already live in Eastbourne, there's no real point in the move.
Moving to the South West, things pick up. Ignore seaside towns but little market towns are always good I feel. Devizes is nice, Shaftesbury has lots of new builds, Tisbury is lovely, Blandford Forum is also good. Bear in mind that some of these places are genuinely isolated (no buses after six, few taxi services, not on the rail network). They give off a fifties vibe: it makes my skin itch but you're Ukippy so (unsarcastically) that's probably not a problem.
Avoid spa towns: so no Royal Tunbridge Wells, and possibly Bath as well. They carry a premium which they don't deserve.
Let's go further up. Swindon is frowned on by metropolitan sof-is-ti-cates, but f**kem: it's perfectly decent and outstanding transport links. Thames Corridor is outside your budget, but you might be able to do Banbury. Don't do Stratford-upon-Avon unless you like tourists.
Moving to Wales. You might still be able to do Cardiff. Do not do Newport...just don't. The Valleys is cheap but too poor. Swansea, Llanelli...well yes, but why bother? The West Coast is easily affordable but are very isolated. North Wales is an improvement and transport links to Liverpool is good but suffers from the perennial Welsh problem of lovely scenery and rubbish architecture. Mid-West Wales (Brecon and north) is genuinely lovely, but like Dorset you do have isolation problems.
I oddly like Liverpool, for reasons I don't understand, and it is cheap. But that's a me-thing and I don't think it can be unreservedly recommended. Manchester is nice and vibrant, tho' the chip on its shoulder is never far from the surface and the accent takes some getting used to...
In terms of Wales, I'd throw in a pitch for the Newport Levels. Used to be unbearable due to Llanwern. Problem is property availability. Newport itself is two hours from London, with a 30 minute service.
You can buy a palace in the Dakotas for that sort of money, especially now the fracking industry is on hold.
...Birmingham? Better than you think, but again not a place to move to.
Lancaster, Morecambe? Not really. Windswept coast, staring out to sea, wondering where your life went.
Blackpool? Ohgodno.
The Lake District? Full of undiscovered gems and well worth a look. Get the Coogan/Brydon "The Trip" (first series) and see why it's a good idea. Possibly also the Yorkshire Dales, but that's me guessing so don't quote me.
North Yorkshire is good to great - York may now be outside your budget, but the surrounding areas are good. Leeds is genuinely underrated, especially by Southerners,but again is it a place to move to?
Avoid South Yorkshire, Bradford and surrounding, Lincolnshire. I don't know enough about the East Riding (is Beverley nice?) and the old Humberside but I do know Grimsby and Hull are not good.
Going North, and there are certain universal truths: never start a land war in Asia, don't play cards with a man called "Doc", *never* live in Middlesbrough.
An that's about as far up as I go. Please consult others for the Pennines, Newcastle, Scotland (but Edinburgh is very nice!), Northern Ireland, Midlands, Essex and Cornwall. Avoid the coast, stick to market towns, try to balance countryside against transport links. It is fun to do up a wreck but it is hard work and outside most people's pain threshold. Don't buy new-builds (unless off plan) because the premium wears off immediately, but 5-10 years old is just as good.
Avoid Bradford - lol
Please can I have your reasons why that is ?
One of the few things you used to see when going into Bradford by train was the wreck of a burnt-out house, and it was there for years, tho' I don't know if it still is. I got the hint.
Bradford, like PortsmouthvsSouthampton, GrimsbyvsCleethorpes, CardiffvsNewport, NewcastlevsSunderland, BrightonvsHoveActually, BournemouthvsPoole (the list is endless) has a more prosperous neighbour in Leeds that outscores it on a place-to-place comparison. Having recommended Leeds, that led to the automatic exclusion of Bradford.
By your interest and moniker (tyke) and previous remarks I think you may be from there or therabouts, so apologies for any insult, tho' the process of recommending places automatically leads to unrecommending others. If you have an argument in its favour, you now have a perfect opportunity to post it...
Can you a buy a house / flat for £200k, anywhere, in the UK ?
There are still bits of York you can buy for 200k (although if you want really cheap then you need to start looking at the nasty bits of South Yorkshire.)
...Birmingham? Better than you think, but again not a place to move to.
Lancaster, Morecambe? Not really. Windswept coast, staring out to sea, wondering where your life went.
Blackpool? Ohgodno.
The Lake District? Full of undiscovered gems and well worth a look. Get the Coogan/Brydon "The Trip" (first series) and see why it's a good idea. Possibly also the Yorkshire Dales, but that's me guessing so don't quote me.
North Yorkshire is good to great - York may now be outside your budget, but the surrounding areas are good. Leeds is genuinely underrated, especially by Southerners,but again is it a place to move to?
Avoid South Yorkshire, Bradford and surrounding, Lincolnshire. I don't know enough about the East Riding (is Beverley nice?) and the old Humberside but I do know Grimsby and Hull are not good.
Going North, and there are certain universal truths: never start a land war in Asia, don't play cards with a man called "Doc", *never* live in Middlesbrough.
An that's about as far up as I go. Please consult others for the Pennines, Newcastle, Scotland (but Edinburgh is very nice!), Northern Ireland, Midlands, Essex and Cornwall. Avoid the coast, stick to market towns, try to balance countryside against transport links. It is fun to do up a wreck but it is hard work and outside most people's pain threshold. Don't buy new-builds (unless off plan) because the premium wears off immediately, but 5-10 years old is just as good.
Avoid Bradford - lol
Please can I have your reasons why that is ?
One of the few things you used to see when going into Bradford by train was the wreck of a burnt-out house, and it was there for years, tho' I don't know if it still is. I got the hint.
Bradford, like PortsmouthvsSouthampton, GrimsbyvsCleethorpes, CardiffvsNewport, NewcastlevsSunderland, BrightonvsHoveActually, BournemouthvsPoole (the list is endless) has a more prosperous neighbour in Leeds that outscores it on a place-to-place comparison. Having recommended Leeds, that led to the automatic exclusion of Bradford.
By your interest and moniker (tyke) and previous remarks I think you may be from there or therabouts, so apologies for any insult, tho' the process of recommending places automatically leads to unrecommending others. If you have an argument in its favour, you now have a perfect opportunity to post it...
While Surbiton and the rest of the Labour electorate make up their own minds and those who joined the party just to sabotage it (whether Conservative or not) decide how much further the knife can be twisted, what if Owen Smith wins ?
I've not really followed his pronouncements but that wouldn't be the point. His Shadow Cabinet would see the return of many who are unable or unwilling to serve under Corbyn. I suspect the next stage would be rule changes to restore the primacy of the PLP and reduce the prospect of the Corynite dissidents being able to regain control of the party.
Smith will have a mountain to climb in terms of Prime Ministerial credibility but members of his Shadow Cabinet might find the likes of Hammond, Rudd and others rather easier to take on while Curly, Mo and Larry will provide plenty of entertainment as we blunder our way out of the EU.
I've not got a dog in this race on any level and if Corbyn remains leader it will be hard to argue with a man who has twice won a full election of the party membership as distinct from a Prime Minister who couldn't get 2/3 of her own MPs to support her..
He would certainly be able to bring some of the missing back into the fold, but his policy pronouncements have sent out a few hostages to fortune.
Auction opening prices are usually 10-20% less than the sale prices, and in a rising market can be much more. Having said that, they may accept a pre-auction offer for £17K and it's worth try: at that price it may unsarcastically be worth buying just for storage and holidays - County Durham (I still hum the Pink Panther theme tune) is a nice place.
Crikey. 1.66 acres. I could finally buy that ride-on mower I've always craved.
You're welcome to come and indulge your craving here. We have 75 acres to keep in check. Just got the second mowing of hay in this week, so the barn is full to overflowing.
Who knew it was so easy? I see May is not neglecting to overpromise during her honeymoon phase.
The problem is that there are 27 votes and each can be a veto. Germany, Ireland will agree to a Single Market. What incentives do Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia have ? Spain, Portugal, France, Greece, Cyprus will have another agenda.
My understanding is that after a certain date (I forget if it's 2017 or 2019) such a deal would be made, on the EU-side, by QMV rather than the current unanimity required.
Crikey. 1.66 acres. I could finally buy that ride-on mower I've always craved.
You're welcome to come and indulge your craving here. We have 75 acres to keep in check. Just got the second mowing of hay in this week, so the barn is full to overflowing.
Sounds wonderful! Whereabouts are you, if you don't mind me asking?
...Birmingham? Better than you think, but again not a place to move to.
Lancaster, Morecambe? Not really. Windswept coast, staring out to sea, wondering where your life went.
Blackpool? Ohgodno.
The Lake District? Full of undiscovered gems and well worth a look. Get the Coogan/Brydon "The Trip" (first series) and see why it's a good idea. Possibly also the Yorkshire Dales, but that's me guessing so don't quote me.
North Yorkshire is good to great - York may now be outside your budget, but the surrounding areas are good. Leeds is genuinely underrated, especially by Southerners,but again is it a place to move to?
Avoid South Yorkshire, Bradford and surrounding, Lincolnshire. I don't know enough about the East Riding (is Beverley nice?) and the old Humberside but I do know Grimsby and Hull are not good.
Going North, and there are certain universal truths: never start a land war in Asia, don't play cards with a man called "Doc", *never* live in Middlesbrough.
An that's about as far up as I go. Please consult others for the Pennines, Newcastle, Scotland (but Edinburgh is very nice!), Northern Ireland, Midlands, Essex and Cornwall. Avoid the coast, stick to market towns, try to balance countryside against transport links. It is fun to do up a wreck but it is hard work and outside most people's pain threshold. Don't buy new-builds (unless off plan) because the premium wears off immediately, but 5-10 years old is just as good.
Avoid Bradford - lol
Please can I have your reasons why that is ?
One of the few things you used to see when going into Bradford by train was the wreck of a burnt-out house, and it was there for years, tho' I don't know if it still is. I got the hint.
Bradford, like PortsmouthvsSouthampton, GrimsbyvsCleethorpes, CardiffvsNewport, NewcastlevsSunderland, BrightonvsHoveActually, BournemouthvsPoole (the list is endless) has a more prosperous neighbour in Leeds that outscores it on a place-to-place comparison. Having recommended Leeds, that led to the automatic exclusion of Bradford.
By your interest and moniker (tyke) and previous remarks I think you may be from there or therabouts, so apologies for any insult, tho' the process of recommending places automatically leads to unrecommending others. If you have an argument in its favour, you now have a perfect opportunity to post it...
I believe the curries are good ...
They are, but if you want a high-Asian area with a high-street full of curry shops, Southall has all that and it's twenty minutes to Paddington. Problem is, like everything within the M25, it's only affordable if you have rich parents...
My understanding is that after a certain date (I forget if it's 2017 or 2019) such a deal would be made, on the EU-side, by QMV rather than the current unanimity required.
The final agreement is subject to the consent of the parliament and a qualified majority of the council. The rules for that qualified majority system change on March 31st 2017, when the old system of QMV can no longer be invoked (we've been operating under a transitional system, which is drawing to a close). The fly in the ointment is that the new system allows for a blocking minority (which requires 4 members with 35% of the council population).
Council unanimity is required to extend the two year deadline.
While Surbiton and the rest of the Labour electorate make up their own minds and those who joined the party just to sabotage it (whether Conservative or not) decide how much further the knife can be twisted, what if Owen Smith wins ?
I've not really followed his pronouncements but that wouldn't be the point. His Shadow Cabinet would see the return of many who are unable or unwilling to serve under Corbyn. I suspect the next stage would be rule changes to restore the primacy of the PLP and reduce the prospect of the Corynite dissidents being able to regain control of the party.
Smith will have a mountain to climb in terms of Prime Ministerial credibility but members of his Shadow Cabinet might find the likes of Hammond, Rudd and others rather easier to take on while Curly, Mo and Larry will provide plenty of entertainment as we blunder our way out of the EU.
I've not got a dog in this race on any level and if Corbyn remains leader it will be hard to argue with a man who has twice won a full election of the party membership as distinct from a Prime Minister who couldn't get 2/3 of her own MPs to support her..
Well written, Stodge. I can see some Liberals are getting the fire back in their bellies including those who apparently voted to go OUT.
I couldn't give a **** which one won. But one thing an Owen win would do. Labour will have a cast iron promise either not to invoke Art.50 or renegotiate with the EU. Do not forget 48.3% voted for status quo and all 51.7% did not vote for curbing immigration. Many Tories are privately on the same side as us.
My understanding is that after a certain date (I forget if it's 2017 or 2019) such a deal would be made, on the EU-side, by QMV rather than the current unanimity required.
The final agreement is subject to the consent of the parliament and a qualified majority of the council. The rules for that qualified majority system change on March 31st 2017, when the old system of QMV can no longer be invoked (we've been operating under a transitional system, which is drawing to a close). The fly in the ointment is that the new system allows for a blocking minority (which requires 4 members with 35% of the council population).
Council unanimity is required to extend the two year deadline.
Question on the consent of the parliament. I know that the UK does not vote on matters concerning its Brexit within the Council, but I don't recall a similar requirement for British MEPs to recuse themselves from that vote. Would they be able to vote on the deal? And I guess some Bremainer MEPs might vote against any deal.
My understanding is that after a certain date (I forget if it's 2017 or 2019) such a deal would be made, on the EU-side, by QMV rather than the current unanimity required.
The final agreement is subject to the consent of the parliament and a qualified majority of the council. The rules for that qualified majority system change on March 31st 2017, when the old system of QMV can no longer be invoked (we've been operating under a transitional system, which is drawing to a close). The fly in the ointment is that the new system allows for a blocking minority (which requires 4 members with 35% of the council population).
Council unanimity is required to extend the two year deadline.
Question on the consent of the parliament. I know that the UK does not vote on matters concerning its Brexit within the Council, but I don't recall a similar requirement for British MEPs to recuse themselves from that vote. Would they be able to vote on the deal? And I guess some Bremainer MEPs might vote against any deal.
Lisbon throws us no bones I'm afraid.
"...after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
Crikey. 1.66 acres. I could finally buy that ride-on mower I've always craved.
You're welcome to come and indulge your craving here. We have 75 acres to keep in check. Just got the second mowing of hay in this week, so the barn is full to overflowing.
Sounds wonderful! Whereabouts are you, if you don't mind me asking?
Upcountry Montgomery County, MD.
Photo is not of our farm, but nearby similar landscape:
PS That hump is locally called Sugarloaf Mountain, and we can see it from the house. It played a key role in saving Washington from Lee's forces in the Civil War. From the top, Union soldiers saw the dust of the advancing army post Gettysburg, and rushed a contingent out to meet it near Frederick MD on the Monacacy River bridges. The Union lost the battle but it delayed the advance sufficiently for sufficient defences to be set up.
Crikey. 1.66 acres. I could finally buy that ride-on mower I've always craved.
You're welcome to come and indulge your craving here. We have 75 acres to keep in check. Just got the second mowing of hay in this week, so the barn is full to overflowing.
Sounds wonderful! Whereabouts are you, if you don't mind me asking?
Upcountry Montgomery County, MD.
Photo is not of our farm, but nearby similar landscape:
My understanding is that after a certain date (I forget if it's 2017 or 2019) such a deal would be made, on the EU-side, by QMV rather than the current unanimity required.
The final agreement is subject to the consent of the parliament and a qualified majority of the council. The rules for that qualified majority system change on March 31st 2017, when the old system of QMV can no longer be invoked (we've been operating under a transitional system, which is drawing to a close). The fly in the ointment is that the new system allows for a blocking minority (which requires 4 members with 35% of the council population).
Council unanimity is required to extend the two year deadline.
Question on the consent of the parliament. I know that the UK does not vote on matters concerning its Brexit within the Council, but I don't recall a similar requirement for British MEPs to recuse themselves from that vote. Would they be able to vote on the deal? And I guess some Bremainer MEPs might vote against any deal.
Lisbon throws us no bones I'm afraid.
"...after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
I was wondering when people would work that out. It's entirely possible UK negotiates a deal with the Council, gets it approved, and the EP plays silly buggers and votes it out...and we run out of time.
Crikey. 1.66 acres. I could finally buy that ride-on mower I've always craved.
You're welcome to come and indulge your craving here. We have 75 acres to keep in check. Just got the second mowing of hay in this week, so the barn is full to overflowing.
Sounds wonderful! Whereabouts are you, if you don't mind me asking?
Upcountry Montgomery County, MD.
Photo is not of our farm, but nearby similar landscape:
See my PS to that post. Yes, it is stunningly beautiful and I am lucky to live here. So peaceful and yet within 45 minutes of 3 major international airports (National, Dulles, BWI)
My understanding is that after a certain date (I forget if it's 2017 or 2019) such a deal would be made, on the EU-side, by QMV rather than the current unanimity required.
The final agreement is subject to the consent of the parliament and a qualified majority of the council. The rules for that qualified majority system change on March 31st 2017, when the old system of QMV can no longer be invoked (we've been operating under a transitional system, which is drawing to a close). The fly in the ointment is that the new system allows for a blocking minority (which requires 4 members with 35% of the council population).
Council unanimity is required to extend the two year deadline.
Question on the consent of the parliament. I know that the UK does not vote on matters concerning its Brexit within the Council, but I don't recall a similar requirement for British MEPs to recuse themselves from that vote. Would they be able to vote on the deal? And I guess some Bremainer MEPs might vote against any deal.
Lisbon throws us no bones I'm afraid.
"...after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
But presumably the European Parliament has to vote to establish its consent. Do British MEPs get to participate in that vote?
While Surbiton and the rest of the Labour electorate make up their own minds and those who joined the party just to sabotage it (whether Conservative or not) decide how much further the knife can be twisted, what if Owen Smith wins ?
I've not really followed his pronouncements but that wouldn't be the point. His Shadow Cabinet would see the return of many who are unable or unwilling to serve under Corbyn. I suspect the next stage would be rule changes to restore the primacy of the PLP and reduce the prospect of the Corynite dissidents being able to regain control of the party.
Smith will have a mountain to climb in terms of Prime Ministerial credibility but members of his Shadow Cabinet might find the likes of Hammond, Rudd and others rather easier to take on while Curly, Mo and Larry will provide plenty of entertainment as we blunder our way out of the EU.
I've not got a dog in this race on any level and if Corbyn remains leader it will be hard to argue with a man who has twice won a full election of the party membership as distinct from a Prime Minister who couldn't get 2/3 of her own MPs to support her..
Well written, Stodge. I can see some Liberals are getting the fire back in their bellies including those who apparently voted to go OUT.
I couldn't give a **** which one won. But one thing an Owen win would do. Labour will have a cast iron promise either not to invoke Art.50 or renegotiate with the EU. Do not forget 48.3% voted for status quo and all 51.7% did not vote for curbing immigration. Many Tories are privately on the same side as us.
By 2020 Article 50 will have been invoked and we will have left the EU. We may have left with an agreement or we may have left in chaos because there was no agreement. But we will be out. All a 2020 manifesto could do would be to pledge to apply to rejoin the EU. This would have to mean no budget rebate, commitment to ever closer union, euro, Schengen and unlimited immigration. Good luck to anyone who wants to run with that.
Can you a buy a house / flat for £200k, anywhere, in the UK ?
*Most* places in the UK have houses/flats for less than that. If you're willing to do up a wreck, in many places you could buy two, three or four for 200K and still do them up.
Even London you can find flats for £200,000 no where near all of them run down.
My understanding is that after a certain date (I forget if it's 2017 or 2019) such a deal would be made, on the EU-side, by QMV rather than the current unanimity required.
The final agreement is subject to the consent of the parliament and a qualified majority of the council. The rules for that qualified majority system change on March 31st 2017, when the old system of QMV can no longer be invoked (we've been operating under a transitional system, which is drawing to a close). The fly in the ointment is that the new system allows for a blocking minority (which requires 4 members with 35% of the council population).
Council unanimity is required to extend the two year deadline.
Question on the consent of the parliament. I know that the UK does not vote on matters concerning its Brexit within the Council, but I don't recall a similar requirement for British MEPs to recuse themselves from that vote. Would they be able to vote on the deal? And I guess some Bremainer MEPs might vote against any deal.
Lisbon throws us no bones I'm afraid.
"...after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
I was wondering when people would work that out. It's entirely possible UK negotiates a deal with the Council, gets it approved, and the EP plays silly buggers and votes it out...and we run out of time.
In my defence, I have been mulling this over for a long while. I'm hoping that the current informal talks (which I believe must be happening) will be exploring this area of uncertainty and the timescale. It will suit no one to have such a short and abrupt deadline - there are commercial risks to all parties. Note the A50 ordering though, EP first, then EC. The EC will be holding feet to the flames.
My understanding is that after a certain date (I forget if it's 2017 or 2019) such a deal would be made, on the EU-side, by QMV rather than the current unanimity required.
The final agreement is subject to the consent of the parliament and a qualified majority of the council. The rules for that qualified majority system change on March 31st 2017, when the old system of QMV can no longer be invoked (we've been operating under a transitional system, which is drawing to a close). The fly in the ointment is that the new system allows for a blocking minority (which requires 4 members with 35% of the council population).
Council unanimity is required to extend the two year deadline.
Question on the consent of the parliament. I know that the UK does not vote on matters concerning its Brexit within the Council, but I don't recall a similar requirement for British MEPs to recuse themselves from that vote. Would they be able to vote on the deal? And I guess some Bremainer MEPs might vote against any deal.
Lisbon throws us no bones I'm afraid.
"...after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
I was wondering when people would work that out. It's entirely possible UK negotiates a deal with the Council, gets it approved, and the EP plays silly buggers and votes it out...and we run out of time.
In my defence, I have been mulling this over for a long while. I'm hoping that the current informal talks (which I believe must be happening) will be exploring this area of uncertainty and the timescale. It will suit no one to have such a short and abrupt deadline - there are commercial risks to all parties. Note the A50 ordering though, EP first, then EC. The EC will be holding feet to the flames.
I do expect the Germans to be throwing their weight around to fullest effect.
I also think that the need for unanimity in the Council is overplayed. Yes, it is written in law. But what does it mean in practice? Will a Slovenia or Bulgaria really stand in front of the German steamroller in order to hold out for what will, in any event, be scraps vis-a-vis its relationship with the UK, when it has much more at stake re its ongoing and future relationship with Germany within the EU? I am sure Ms Merkel has a little black book she marks people's and country's names in.
My understanding is that after a certain date (I forget if it's 2017 or 2019) such a deal would be made, on the EU-side, by QMV rather than the current unanimity required.
The final agreement is subject to the consent of the parliament and a qualified majority of the council. The rules for that qualified majority system change on March 31st 2017, when the old system of QMV can no longer be invoked (we've been operating under a transitional system, which is drawing to a close). The fly in the ointment is that the new system allows for a blocking minority (which requires 4 members with 35% of the council population).
Council unanimity is required to extend the two year deadline.
Question on the consent of the parliament. I know that the UK does not vote on matters concerning its Brexit within the Council, but I don't recall a similar requirement for British MEPs to recuse themselves from that vote. Would they be able to vote on the deal? And I guess some Bremainer MEPs might vote against any deal.
Lisbon throws us no bones I'm afraid.
"...after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
But presumably the European Parliament has to vote to establish its consent. Do British MEPs get to participate in that vote?
Given they will still be MEPs at that point and they aren't specifically excluded, I would suspect so. Clearly they really didn't spend much time drafting Article 50!
My understanding is that after a certain date (I forget if it's 2017 or 2019) such a deal would be made, on the EU-side, by QMV rather than the current unanimity required.
The final agreement is subject to the consent of the parliament and a qualified majority of the council. The rules for that qualified majority system change on March 31st 2017, when the old system of QMV can no longer be invoked (we've been operating under a transitional system, which is drawing to a close). The fly in the ointment is that the new system allows for a blocking minority (which requires 4 members with 35% of the council population).
Council unanimity is required to extend the two year deadline.
Lisbon throws us no bones I'm afraid.
"...after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
I was wondering when people would work that out. It's entirely possible UK negotiates a deal with the Council, gets it approved, and the EP plays silly buggers and votes it out...and we run out of time.
In my defence, I have been mulling this over for a long while. I'm hoping that the current informal talks (which I believe must be happening) will be exploring this area of uncertainty and the timescale. It will suit no one to have such a short and abrupt deadline - there are commercial risks to all parties. Note the A50 ordering though, EP first, then EC. The EC will be holding feet to the flames.
I do expect the Germans to be throwing their weight around to fullest effect.
I also think that the need for unanimity in the Council is overplayed. Yes, it is written in law. But what does it mean in practice? Will a Slovenia or Bulgaria really stand in front of the German steamroller in order to hold out for what will, in any event, be scraps vis-a-vis its relationship with the UK, when it has much more at stake re its ongoing and future relationship with Germany within the EU? I am sure Ms Merkel has a little black book she marks people's and country's names in.
There reaches a point where we're dealing with the unknowable. I follow the domestic politics of the big four - Germany, France, Italy and Spain. Beyond that I know very little. I would imagine the A8 countries have real skin in the game, but how that would manifest, I just can't say.
I do take your point though. The EU27 have enough on their plate without endless sturm und drang with the UK.
200K is not enough for within M25. But you know that already
Moving to the South West, things pick up. Ignore seaside towns but little market towns are always good I feel. Devizes is nice, Shaftesbury has lots of new builds, Tisbury is lovely, Blandford Forum is also good. Bear in mind that some of these places are genuinely isolated (no buses after six, few taxi services, not on the rail network). They give off a fifties vibe: it makes my skin itch but you're Ukippy so (unsarcastically) that's probably not a problem.
Avoid spa towns: so no Royal Tunbridge Wells, and possibly Bath as well. They carry a premium which they don't deserve.
Let's go further up. Swindon is frowned on by metropolitan sof-is-ti-cates, but f**kem: it's perfectly decent and outstanding transport links. Thames Corridor is outside your budget, but you might be able to do Banbury. Don't do Stratford-upon-Avon unless you like tourists.
Moving to Wales. You might still be able to do Cardiff. Do not do Newport...just don't. The Valleys is cheap but too poor. Swansea, Llanelli...well yes, but why bother? The West Coast is easily affordable but are very isolated. North Wales is an improvement and transport links to Liverpool is good but suffers from the perennial Welsh problem of lovely scenery and rubbish architecture. Mid-West Wales (Brecon and north) is genuinely lovely, but like Dorset you do have isolation problems.
I oddly like Liverpool, for reasons I don't understand, and it is cheap. But that's a me-thing and I don't think it can be unreservedly recommended. Manchester is nice and vibrant, tho' the chip on its shoulder is never far from the surface and the accent takes some getting used to...
In terms of Wales, I'd throw in a pitch for the Newport Levels. Used to be unbearable due to Llanwern. Problem is property availability. Newport itself is two hours from London, with a 30 minute service.
You can buy a palace in the Dakotas for that sort of money, especially now the fracking industry is on hold.
While Surbiton and the rest of the Labour electorate make up their own minds and those who joined the party just to sabotage it (whether Conservative or not) decide how much further the knife can be twisted, what if Owen Smith wins ?
I've not really followed his pronouncements but that wouldn't be the point. His Shadow Cabinet would see the return of many who are unable or unwilling to serve under Corbyn. I suspect the next stage would be rule changes to restore the primacy of the PLP and reduce the prospect of the Corynite dissidents being able to regain control of the party.
Smith will have a mountain to climb in terms of Prime Ministerial credibility but members of his Shadow Cabinet might find the likes of Hammond, Rudd and others rather easier to take on while Curly, Mo and Larry will provide plenty of entertainment as we blunder our way out of the EU.
I've not got a dog in this race on any level and if Corbyn remains leader it will be hard to argue with a man who has twice won a full election of the party membership as distinct from a Prime Minister who couldn't get 2/3 of her own MPs to support her..
Well written, Stodge. I can see some Liberals are getting the fire back in their bellies including those who apparently voted to go OUT.
I couldn't give a **** which one won. But one thing an Owen win would do. Labour will have a cast iron promise either not to invoke Art.50 or renegotiate with the EU. Do not forget 48.3% voted for status quo and all 51.7% did not vote for curbing immigration. Many Tories are privately on the same side as us.
My understanding is that after a certain date (I forget if it's 2017 or 2019) such a deal would be made, on the EU-side, by QMV rather than the current unanimity required.
The final agreement is subject to the consent of the parliament and a qualified majority of the council. The rules for that qualified majority system change on March 31st 2017, when the old system of QMV can no longer be invoked (we've been operating under a transitional system, which is drawing to a close). The fly in the ointment is that the new system allows for a blocking minority (which requires 4 members with 35% of the council population).
Council unanimity is required to extend the two year deadline.
Question on the consent of the parliament. I know that the UK does not vote on matters concerning its Brexit within the Council, but I don't recall a similar requirement for British MEPs to recuse themselves from that vote. Would they be able to vote on the deal? And I guess some Bremainer MEPs might vote against any deal.
Lisbon throws us no bones I'm afraid.
"...after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
I was wondering when people would work that out. It's entirely possible UK negotiates a deal with the Council, gets it approved, and the EP plays silly buggers and votes it out...and we run out of time.
In my defence, I have been mulling this over for a long while. I'm hoping that the current informal talks (which I believe must be happening) will be exploring this area of uncertainty and the timescale. It will suit no one to have such a short and abrupt deadline - there are commercial risks to all parties. Note the A50 ordering though, EP first, then EC. The EC will be holding feet to the flames.
All the more reason the UK has to establish right up front that it is prepared to leave with no deal in place.
While Surbiton and the rest of the Labour electorate make up their own minds and those who joined the party just to sabotage it (whether Conservative or not) decide how much further the knife can be twisted, what if Owen Smith wins ?
I've not really followed his pronouncements but that wouldn't be the point. His Shadow Cabinet would see the return of many who are unable or unwilling to serve under Corbyn. I suspect the next stage would be rule changes to restore the primacy of the PLP and reduce the prospect of the Corynite dissidents being able to regain control of the party.
Smith will have a mountain to climb in terms of Prime Ministerial credibility but members of his Shadow Cabinet might find the likes of Hammond, Rudd and others rather easier to take on while Curly, Mo and Larry will provide plenty of entertainment as we blunder our way out of the EU.
I've not got a dog in this race on any level and if Corbyn remains leader it will be hard to argue with a man who has twice won a full election of the party membership as distinct from a Prime Minister who couldn't get 2/3 of her own MPs to support her..
The frustrating thing from a Labour supporter's perspective is that the government has a small majority and is stuffed full of mediocre and worse ministers. May herself is hardly avTitan. A sensible opposition would have a very good chance of winning the next election.
@viewcode You've had some time on your hands this afternoon. Your assessment of the 200k UK housing market is very endearing.
To be fair, it was a bit ridiculous for anyone to think you couldn't buy a house/flat for less than 200k anywhere in the UK!
My brother in County Durham has a dozen social housing properties and they're worth less than 200k all in. Hopefully, PB has experienced a bit of How The Other Half Lives.
There's a lot of City types/lawyers and other professionals that perhaps don't quite get it.
FaceSpace is full of other people's children. Twitter pops up all manner of random subjects. I haven't chatted tropical fish in years - and then someone asked if their guppy was pregnant or ill...
Can you a buy a house / flat for £200k, anywhere, in the UK ?
You can get a real nice 4 bedroom detached, in south/west Scotland. Near the sea , beautiful countryside , under an hour to Glasgow if you want to visit big city etc.
Well written, Stodge. I can see some Liberals are getting the fire back in their bellies including those who apparently voted to go OUT.
I couldn't give a **** which one won. But one thing an Owen win would do. Labour will have a cast iron promise either not to invoke Art.50 or renegotiate with the EU. Do not forget 48.3% voted for status quo and all 51.7% did not vote for curbing immigration. Many Tories are privately on the same side as us.
Perversely, the referendum wasn't about Leaving, it was more about NOT Remaining or rather not remaining on the terms under which we would have remained (so to speak).
As you say, the 51.7% (including me) did so for a multitude of reasons and do not form a coherent bloc but I'm not sure the 48.3% do either and too many are assuming they do.
For all the hyperbole, we know rules can be changed - the option for the UK to rejoin the EU still exists and I agree the stumbling block currently is we would have to rejoin without the various rebates and opt outs negotiated since Maastricht. However, it would be possible to create a new "deal" (heard that somewhere before) which could be put to the British people as a basis for rejoining (perhaps as an Associate Member in first instance).
The EU has the option of making it hard for us to leave "pour ne pas encourager les autres" as it were and we can make life difficult for the EU (and ourselves). That seems to be the only option since a more pragmatic and sensible organisation wouldn't have allowed itself to get to this point.
The problem with trying to sell the future is that in most instances the past doesn't look such a bad place - it's only when it does look really bad, 1945, 1979 and to an extent both 1997 and 2010 that the future or rather something different looks an option.
As you say, the 51.7% (including me) did so for a multitude of reasons and do not form a coherent bloc but I'm not sure the 48.3% do either and too many are assuming they do.
Yes. This is nearly always the problem - politicians take a result and start claiming mandates that the vote can't really support - or at least don't unambiguously support.
200K is not enough for within M25. But you know that already
In the South East of England, you can still do Winchester if you can do flats. You can't do posh Home Counties, so no Haslemere or Guildford. You might be able to do Petersfield, which is nice. Try to avoid the South Coast of England: whether it's Hastings, Brighton, Bognor, Portsmouth, Bournemouth, Sandbanks, it's the same mishmash with varying degrees of prosperity, and as you already live in Eastbourne, there's no real point in the move.
Moving to the South West, things pick up. Ignore seaside towns but little market towns are always good I feel. Devizes is nice, Shaftesbury has lots of new builds, Tisbury is lovely, Blandford Forum is also good. Bear in mind that some of these places are genuinely isolated (no buses after six, few taxi services, not on the rail network). They give off a fifties vibe: it makes my skin itch but you're Ukippy so (unsarcastically) that's probably not a problem.
Avoid spa towns: so no Royal Tunbridge Wells, and possibly Bath as well. They carry a premium which they don't deserve.
Let's go further up. Swindon is frowned on by metropolitan sof-is-ti-cates, but f**kem: it's perfectly decent and outstanding transport links. Thames Corridor is outside your budget, but you might be able to do Banbury. Don't do Stratford-upon-Avon unless you like tourists.
Moving to Wales. You might still be able to do Cardiff. Do not do Newport...just don't. The Valleys is cheap but too poor. Swansea, Llanelli...well yes, but why bother? The West Coast is easily affordable but are very isolated. North Wales is an improvement and transport links to Liverpool is good but suffers from the perennial Welsh problem of lovely scenery and rubbish architecture. Mid-West Wales (Brecon and north) is genuinely lovely, but like Dorset you do have isolation problems.
I oddly like Liverpool, for reasons I don't understand, and it is cheap. But that's a me-thing and I don't think it can be unreservedly recommended. Manchester is nice and vibrant, tho' the chip on its shoulder is never far from the surface and the accent takes some getting used to...
£200k can get you a decent house in a decent part of Luton (they do exist) with excellent transport links to London or the Midlands, and beautiful Chiltern scenery round about.
While Surbiton and the rest of the Labour electorate make up their own minds and those who joined the party just to sabotage it (whether Conservative or not) decide how much further the knife can be twisted, what if Owen Smith wins ?
I've not really followed his pronouncements but that wouldn't be the point. His Shadow Cabinet would see the return of many who are unable or unwilling to serve under Corbyn. I suspect the next stage would be rule changes to restore the primacy of the PLP and reduce the prospect of the Corynite dissidents being able to regain control of the party.
Smith will have a mountain to climb in terms of Prime Ministerial credibility but members of his Shadow Cabinet might find the likes of Hammond, Rudd and others rather easier to take on while Curly, Mo and Larry will provide plenty of entertainment as we blunder our way out of the EU.
I've not got a dog in this race on any level and if Corbyn remains leader it will be hard to argue with a man who has twice won a full election of the party membership as distinct from a Prime Minister who couldn't get 2/3 of her own MPs to support her..
Well written, Stodge. I can see some Liberals are getting the fire back in their bellies including those who apparently voted to go OUT.
I couldn't give a **** which one won. But one thing an Owen win would do. Labour will have a cast iron promise either not to invoke Art.50 or renegotiate with the EU. Do not forget 48.3% voted for status quo and all 51.7% did not vote for curbing immigration. Many Tories are privately on the same side as us.
The problem with that is about 430 constituencies voted Leave to 220 Remain. Of the 220, 59 are in Scotland and 10 in Northern Ireland. The rest are either solidly Labour already, or parts of the Stockbroker Belt.
Yes. This is nearly always the problem - politicians take a result and start claiming mandates that the vote can't really support - or at least don't unambiguously support.
Indeed and it's a problem for all parties and their leaders. From my perspective, I don't have a problem with Tim Farron saying he would like the UK to rejoin the European Union, it's a perfectly reasonable and credible position.
However, what Tim and people like him need to explain is that, assuming they are in Government in 2020, is how and on what terms they will re-negotiate the UK's return to the EU. What series of terms and condition (if you like) can they get from Brussels that would be a) different enough from those negotiated by Cameron and rejected on June 23rd while b) recognising the very real concerns about immigration and a range of other issues that led to the LEAVE vote in the first place ?
TTIP has failed – but no one is admitting it, says German Vice-Chancellor Germany’s Vice-Chancellor said in 14 rounds of talks neither side had agreed on a single common chapter out of the 27 being deliberated.
TTIP has failed – but no one is admitting it, says German Vice-Chancellor Germany’s Vice-Chancellor said in 14 rounds of talks neither side had agreed on a single common chapter out of the 27 being deliberated.
TTIP has failed – but no one is admitting it, says German Vice-Chancellor Germany’s Vice-Chancellor said in 14 rounds of talks neither side had agreed on a single common chapter out of the 27 being deliberated.
TTIP has failed – but no one is admitting it, says German Vice-Chancellor Germany’s Vice-Chancellor said in 14 rounds of talks neither side had agreed on a single common chapter out of the 27 being deliberated.
TTIP has failed – but no one is admitting it, says German Vice-Chancellor Germany’s Vice-Chancellor said in 14 rounds of talks neither side had agreed on a single common chapter out of the 27 being deliberated.
TTIP has failed – but no one is admitting it, says German Vice-Chancellor Germany’s Vice-Chancellor said in 14 rounds of talks neither side had agreed on a single common chapter out of the 27 being deliberated.
14 rounds of talks and not one single agreement on any of the 27 principles. At this moment it's just a vehicle for negotiators to enjoy jollies.
Perhaps Cameron did better in his deal making than we thought....he got something agreed, however shitty and minor it was.
If so, it illustrates how deeply flawed the EU setup is.
Indeed. I have a Dutch Europhile friend who was outraged at how much the pesky Brits under the "Europhobe Cameron" had been given. That's the perspective we had to.deal with inside this flawed institution.
Yes. This is nearly always the problem - politicians take a result and start claiming mandates that the vote can't really support - or at least don't unambiguously support.
.........However, what Tim and people like him need to explain is that, assuming they are in Government in 2020, is how and on what terms they will re-negotiate the UK's return to the EU. What series of terms and condition (if you like) can they get from Brussels that would be a) different enough from those negotiated by Cameron and rejected on June 23rd while b) recognising the very real concerns about immigration and a range of other issues that led to the LEAVE vote in the first place ?.....
The irony is that we could see UK leaving in 2019, then negotiating a Treaty with the USA and any future Govt looking at a situation where rejoining the EU would mean losing the USA deal.
TTIP has failed – but no one is admitting it, says German Vice-Chancellor Germany’s Vice-Chancellor said in 14 rounds of talks neither side had agreed on a single common chapter out of the 27 being deliberated.
14 rounds of talks and not one single agreement on any of the 27 principles. At this moment it's just a vehicle for negotiators to enjoy jollies.
Perhaps Cameron did better in his deal making than we thought....he got something agreed, however shitty and minor it was.
Whatever the merits of the TTIP are, or were, it perhaps shows the difficulty of negotiating with the EU. Twenty seven governments and the EU parliament have to agree to everything. That has to be damn near impossible for much that is worthwhile.
I rather think that the good FoxinSox, gent and medicus of this parish, was correct when he said on here this morning that the UK will be leaving the EU without an agreement and reverting to WTO rules. If I was PM I would now set up a team focusing on just that so that if the worse comes to the worst I would have a plan ready to implement.
While Surbiton and the rest of the Labour electorate make up their own minds and those who joined the party just to sabotage it (whether Conservative or not) decide how much further the knife can be twisted, what if Owen Smith wins ?
I've not really followed his pronouncements but that wouldn't be the point. His Shadow Cabinet would see the return of many who are unable or unwilling to serve under Corbyn. I suspect the next stage would be rule changes to restore the primacy of the PLP and reduce the prospect of the Corynite dissidents being able to regain control of the party.
Smith will have a mountain to climb in terms of Prime Ministerial credibility but members of his Shadow Cabinet might find the likes of Hammond, Rudd and others rather easier to take on while Curly, Mo and Larry will provide plenty of entertainment as we blunder our way out of the EU.
I've not got a dog in this race on any level and if Corbyn remains leader it will be hard to argue with a man who has twice won a full election of the party membership as distinct from a Prime Minister who couldn't get 2/3 of her own MPs to support her..
Well written, Stodge. I can see some Liberals are getting the fire back in their bellies including those who apparently voted to go OUT.
I couldn't give a **** which one won. But one thing an Owen win would do. Labour will have a cast iron promise either not to invoke Art.50 or renegotiate with the EU. Do not forget 48.3% voted for status quo and all 51.7% did not vote for curbing immigration. Many Tories are privately on the same side as us.
The problem with that is about 430 constituencies voted Leave to 220 Remain. Of the 220, 59 are in Scotland and 10 in Northern Ireland. The rest are either solidly Labour already, or parts of the Stockbroker Belt.
Almost every Con/Lab marginal voted Leave.
Also some of the 59 in Scotland only voted to REMAIN to reduce the chances of a 2nd Indyref. It is rather splendid that across the UK the SNP, Labour, Lib Dems and Greens are all chasing the tiny diminishing minority of voters that are diehard REMAINers.
The TTIP (and CETA) was dead the moment and voted to leave. It was always going to be collateral damage. It is why Obama was so desperate to ensure we stayed in, the UK was the driving force behind the deal.
It also brings into question the TPP on the US side. The whole point of the deals from a US perspective was to ensure primacy of US goods and services standards in Asia and Europe, but without Europe it's a bit pointless.
TTIP has failed – but no one is admitting it, says German Vice-Chancellor Germany’s Vice-Chancellor said in 14 rounds of talks neither side had agreed on a single common chapter out of the 27 being deliberated.
14 rounds of talks and not one single agreement on any of the 27 principles. At this moment it's just a vehicle for negotiators to enjoy jollies.
Perhaps Cameron did better in his deal making than we thought....he got something agreed, however shitty and minor it was.
If so, it illustrates how deeply flawed the EU setup is.
It's more that the treaties limit wiggle room. It's not peculiar to the EU. The four freedoms are enshrined in multiple treaties. Our issues, as expressed by the electorate, relate to freedom of movement, which is defined in the Treaty on European Union, and further in the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. So no one can really say 'Oh fuck it, never mind'.
We never had the opportunity to see Dave's deal put to the acid test. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have withstood challenge.
A random aside, but relevant to the site's raison d'etre: read the other day that Norbert Hofer has a 6 point lead going into the Austrian campaign. It remains to be seen whether any 150% turnout places will help his rival.
Reverse Winchester.
Interesting. I wonder if Brexit has had an effect. Until Brexit we had seen anti establishment fringe parties doing well but not quite ever winning.
Britain, the last place you might expect, finally broke this by defeating more or less the entire establishment in Brexit referendum.
Actually I think that article has some genuine content, which (as so often) doesn't match the headline. What it is saying is that Phil Hammond is suggesting that there would be full access to the Single Market in certain sectors only, specifically financial services and car manufacturing. That's not the same as being a member of the Single Market, and therefore (it is suggested) could perhaps be achievable without conceding freedom of movement.
Is this feasible politically? Dunno, but it's an interesting suggestion.
Mr. Bedfordshire, perhaps, but it may not have a large impact. If I were Austrian, and on the fence, I'd be more concerned by the mysterious voting patterns from last time, and back Hofer on that alone.
Having been a bit ambivalent, I now of the view that anyone pro Brexit should vote Corbyn if they have a vote.
Im coming to the conclusion that Smith is an out and out eurofanatic who will stuff the opposition front benches with mandelsonite pro european weasels and do everything to frustrate and delay Brexit. This must not happen.
Actually I think that article has some genuine content, which (as so often) doesn't match the headline. What it is saying is that Phil Hammond is suggesting that there would be full access to the Single Market in certain sectors only, specifically financial services and car manufacturing. That's not the same as being a member of the Single Market, and therefore (it is suggested) could perhaps be achievable without conceding freedom of movement.
Is this feasible politically? Dunno, but it's an interesting suggestion.
I think it was more the tone that irked me, rather than the content. We are very poor at acknowledging the interests of our counterparties.
Like you, I think approaching the negotiation on a sector by sector basis makes sense. The Single Market will not have the same importance to every industry. For some it may not matter at all; others would be devastated without it. It's an analogue, rather than a binary scale.
Regarding this mornings Treason dusussions. In hindsight it is surprising that the Blair government did not abolish or heavily reform the offence, renaming it in the process.
Its not exactly a progressive piece of legislation.
The only change they made was abolishing the death penalty for it. Incredible to thunk that Dianas lovers in the 1990s could have been hanged if the crown had elected to prosecute them for Treason (and could still be prosecuted and get life upon conviction) A bit middle eastern really.
Actually I think that article has some genuine content, which (as so often) doesn't match the headline. What it is saying is that Phil Hammond is suggesting that there would be full access to the Single Market in certain sectors only, specifically financial services and car manufacturing. That's not the same as being a member of the Single Market, and therefore (it is suggested) could perhaps be achievable without conceding freedom of movement.
Is this feasible politically? Dunno, but it's an interesting suggestion.
I don't see why the EU would want to give us full single market access for financial services and as Robert and I have pointed out on numerous occasions the UK loses disproportionately more from not having free trade in goods for the automobile market as UK assembly is deeply integrated into the EU supply chain. It's more likely that our assembly will move to the EU (Eastern Europe in particular, look at JLR) than the supply chain moving here. At least in the long term.
Actually I think that article has some genuine content, which (as so often) doesn't match the headline. What it is saying is that Phil Hammond is suggesting that there would be full access to the Single Market in certain sectors only, specifically financial services and car manufacturing. That's not the same as being a member of the Single Market, and therefore (it is suggested) could perhaps be achievable without conceding freedom of movement.
Is this feasible politically? Dunno, but it's an interesting suggestion.
I don't see why the EU would want to give us full single market access for financial services and as Robert and I have pointed out on numerous occasions the UK loses disproportionately more from not having free trade in goods for the automobile market as UK assembly is deeply integrated into the EU supply chain. It's more likely that our assembly will move to the EU (Eastern Europe in particular, look at JLR) than the supply chain moving here. At least in the long term.
I think that movement would occur in or out of the EU. The difference is going to be the pace of the migration.
Yes. This is nearly always the problem - politicians take a result and start claiming mandates that the vote can't really support - or at least don't unambiguously support.
.........However, what Tim and people like him need to explain is that, assuming they are in Government in 2020, is how and on what terms they will re-negotiate the UK's return to the EU. What series of terms and condition (if you like) can they get from Brussels that would be a) different enough from those negotiated by Cameron and rejected on June 23rd while b) recognising the very real concerns about immigration and a range of other issues that led to the LEAVE vote in the first place ?.....
The irony is that we could see UK leaving in 2019, then negotiating a Treaty with the USA and any future Govt looking at a situation where rejoining the EU would mean losing the USA deal.
It will be quite funny if we have a free trade deal with US before EU does.
I do wonder if the North American Free Trade Area was so named so that it could be altered to the North Atlantic Free Trade Area when we join
Can you a buy a house / flat for £200k, anywhere, in the UK ?
You can get a real nice 4 bedroom detached, in south/west Scotland. Near the sea , beautiful countryside , under an hour to Glasgow if you want to visit big city etc.
Malcolm, were you in the St George's X area last night?
I don't see why the EU would want to give us full single market access for financial services and as Robert and I have pointed out on numerous occasions the UK loses disproportionately more from not having free trade in goods for the automobile market as UK assembly is deeply integrated into the EU supply chain. It's more likely that our assembly will move to the EU (Eastern Europe in particular, look at JLR) than the supply chain moving here. At least in the long term.
This could be about packaging up a deal in a face-saving way which would allow both sides to claim victory (we wouldn't be 'in' the Single Market, therefore the principle that you have to concede freedom of movement to be in it wouldn't be violated).
I tend to agree with you that it's very ambitious. I think we'll probably get hassle- and tariff-free access to the Single Market in manufactured goods - so the car industry should be OK - but that financial services are not going to get the access they currently have.
Actually I think that article has some genuine content, which (as so often) doesn't match the headline. What it is saying is that Phil Hammond is suggesting that there would be full access to the Single Market in certain sectors only, specifically financial services and car manufacturing. That's not the same as being a member of the Single Market, and therefore (it is suggested) could perhaps be achievable without conceding freedom of movement.
Is this feasible politically? Dunno, but it's an interesting suggestion.
I don't see why the EU would want to give us full single market access for financial services and as Robert and I have pointed out on numerous occasions the UK loses disproportionately more from not having free trade in goods for the automobile market as UK assembly is deeply integrated into the EU supply chain. It's more likely that our assembly will move to the EU (Eastern Europe in particular, look at JLR) than the supply chain moving here. At least in the long term.
The last I heard was that the city would prefer to leave the single market as they could get the same benefits as passporting via equivalent regulation whereas passporting still meant adopting some EU regulation. Importantly the latter means bonus caps and the former does not.
Automotive is manufactured goods which seems to be much easier to achieve a single market situatyon in than services. Also Germany gets hit big time if tariffs go on that trade.
Can you a buy a house / flat for £200k, anywhere, in the UK ?
You can get a real nice 4 bedroom detached, in south/west Scotland. Near the sea , beautiful countryside , under an hour to Glasgow if you want to visit big city etc.
Malcolm, were you in the St George's X area last night?
A random aside, but relevant to the site's raison d'etre: read the other day that Norbert Hofer has a 6 point lead going into the Austrian campaign. It remains to be seen whether any 150% turnout places will help his rival.
Reverse Winchester.
Interesting. I wonder if Brexit has had an effect. Until Brexit we had seen anti establishment fringe parties doing well but not quite ever winning.
Britain, the last place you might expect, finally broke this by defeating more or less the entire establishment in Brexit referendum.
Now people know it CAN be done.
Whoa. This is exactly the same lead that Hofer had in opinion polls on the eve of polling. If the polls are still similarly skewed, it means that Austria is in for another dead heat.
Actually I think that article has some genuine content, which (as so often) doesn't match the headline. What it is saying is that Phil Hammond is suggesting that there would be full access to the Single Market in certain sectors only, specifically financial services and car manufacturing. That's not the same as being a member of the Single Market, and therefore (it is suggested) could perhaps be achievable without conceding freedom of movement.
Is this feasible politically? Dunno, but it's an interesting suggestion.
I don't see why the EU would want to give us full single market access for financial services and as Robert and I have pointed out on numerous occasions the UK loses disproportionately more from not having free trade in goods for the automobile market as UK assembly is deeply integrated into the EU supply chain. It's more likely that our assembly will move to the EU (Eastern Europe in particular, look at JLR) than the supply chain moving here. At least in the long term.
I think that movement would occur in or out of the EU. The difference is going to be the pace of the migration.
If we have a comprehensive free trade in goods deal then it won't. If we have a decent services trade deal then even that shouldn't be too bad and it would allow UK companies to cast their nets better towards growth markets in Asia so any shortfall can be made up over the long term.
Actually I think that article has some genuine content, which (as so often) doesn't match the headline. What it is saying is that Phil Hammond is suggesting that there would be full access to the Single Market in certain sectors only, specifically financial services and car manufacturing. That's not the same as being a member of the Single Market, and therefore (it is suggested) could perhaps be achievable without conceding freedom of movement.
Is this feasible politically? Dunno, but it's an interesting suggestion.
I don't see why the EU would want to give us full single market access for financial services and as Robert and I have pointed out on numerous occasions the UK loses disproportionately more from not having free trade in goods for the automobile market as UK assembly is deeply integrated into the EU supply chain. It's more likely that our assembly will move to the EU (Eastern Europe in particular, look at JLR) than the supply chain moving here. At least in the long term.
Mr. Max, if automotive assembly is going to move to Eastern Europe (JLR) or even outside the EU (Ford), and remember both of those moves have happened despite us being in the EU, anyway why should government policy even take the industry seriously into account? Long term those are, if you are correct, dead industries and so in planning for the long term, which for goodness sake HMG should be doing, skewing policy to cater for them must be wrong.
There is an alternative that perhaps HMG should not try to pick winners and concentrate on providing the best environment for industry to thrive.
Actually I think that article has some genuine content, which (as so often) doesn't match the headline. What it is saying is that Phil Hammond is suggesting that there would be full access to the Single Market in certain sectors only, specifically financial services and car manufacturing. That's not the same as being a member of the Single Market, and therefore (it is suggested) could perhaps be achievable without conceding freedom of movement.
Is this feasible politically? Dunno, but it's an interesting suggestion.
I don't see why the EU would want to give us full single market access for financial services and as Robert and I have pointed out on numerous occasions the UK loses disproportionately more from not having free trade in goods for the automobile market as UK assembly is deeply integrated into the EU supply chain. It's more likely that our assembly will move to the EU (Eastern Europe in particular, look at JLR) than the supply chain moving here. At least in the long term.
I think that movement would occur in or out of the EU. The difference is going to be the pace of the migration.
If we have a comprehensive free trade in goods deal then it won't. If we have a decent services trade deal then even that shouldn't be too bad and it would allow UK companies to cast their nets better towards growth markets in Asia so any shortfall can be made up over the long term.
We need to stop using this silly phrase 'access'. It's meaningless. Everyone has some degree of 'access'.
TTIP has failed – but no one is admitting it, says German Vice-Chancellor Germany’s Vice-Chancellor said in 14 rounds of talks neither side had agreed on a single common chapter out of the 27 being deliberated.
Can one of the nice people on PB let me know, how do I change the little pitcher that comes up next to your name when you post a comment?
Mr Rich – click on your name next to the avatar, that should bring up your profile. In the top right you’ll find ‘edit profile’ look for 'change my picture' on the left of your scree and that should allow you to use any picture in your pix files.
On the equally important point of Plato's house-move, I would suggest that you move somewhere genteelly impoverished but with improving prospects. I'm not suggesting you move to a sink estate, but unless the sight of the odd empty shop or member of the proletariat brings on a fainting fit, it makes sense for you with a retirement income to go somewhere with less job prospects. You'll get more from your money and be wealthier than your neighbours (an essential pre-requisite for happiness apparently).
This brings to mind Wales (don't know enough about it to tell you where though), parts of Scotland, and much of the North of England. Or the quieter seaside towns - somewhere like the IOW?
On the equally important point of Plato's house-move, I would suggest that you move somewhere genteelly impoverished but with improving prospects. I'm not suggesting you move to a sink estate, but unless the sight of the odd empty shop or member of the proletariat brings on a fainting fit, it makes sense for you with a retirement income to go somewhere with less job prospects. You'll get more from your money and be wealthier than your neighbours (an essential pre-requisite for happiness apparently).
This brings to mind Wales (don't know enough about it to tell you where though), parts of Scotland, and much of the North of England. Or the quieter seaside towns - somewhere like the IOW?
I believe the IOW is described as a ghetto of inbreeding with a mass of crime, drug problems, huge unemployment ;-)
On the equally important point of Plato's house-move, I would suggest that you move somewhere genteelly impoverished but with improving prospects. I'm not suggesting you move to a sink estate, but unless the sight of the odd empty shop or member of the proletariat brings on a fainting fit, it makes sense for you with a retirement income to go somewhere with less job prospects. You'll get more from your money and be wealthier than your neighbours (an essential pre-requisite for happiness apparently).
This brings to mind Wales (don't know enough about it to tell you where though), parts of Scotland, and much of the North of England. Or the quieter seaside towns - somewhere like the IOW?
The only conceivable locations in Wales can be found by browsing Waitrose's branch list. Fortunately, they are tip-toeing slightly beyond the Marches, thus widening the choice. Abergavenny is very civilized now.
Comments
This is in an AONB.
Mind you sometimes the neighbours engage in fly-by-night transfer of ownership.
3 bed house on 1.66 acres for less than $20k:
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/222-1st-St-N_Wahpeton_ND_58075_M76688-87139
Probably needs some TLC ...
While Surbiton and the rest of the Labour electorate make up their own minds and those who joined the party just to sabotage it (whether Conservative or not) decide how much further the knife can be twisted, what if Owen Smith wins ?
I've not really followed his pronouncements but that wouldn't be the point. His Shadow Cabinet would see the return of many who are unable or unwilling to serve under Corbyn. I suspect the next stage would be rule changes to restore the primacy of the PLP and reduce the prospect of the Corynite dissidents being able to regain control of the party.
Smith will have a mountain to climb in terms of Prime Ministerial credibility but members of his Shadow Cabinet might find the likes of Hammond, Rudd and others rather easier to take on while Curly, Mo and Larry will provide plenty of entertainment as we blunder our way out of the EU.
I've not got a dog in this race on any level and if Corbyn remains leader it will be hard to argue with a man who has twice won a full election of the party membership as distinct from a Prime Minister who couldn't get 2/3 of her own MPs to support her..
Bradford, like PortsmouthvsSouthampton, GrimsbyvsCleethorpes, CardiffvsNewport, NewcastlevsSunderland, BrightonvsHoveActually, BournemouthvsPoole (the list is endless) has a more prosperous neighbour in Leeds that outscores it on a place-to-place comparison. Having recommended Leeds, that led to the automatic exclusion of Bradford.
By your interest and moniker (tyke) and previous remarks I think you may be from there or therabouts, so apologies for any insult, tho' the process of recommending places automatically leads to unrecommending others. If you have an argument in its favour, you now have a perfect opportunity to post it...
My understanding is that after a certain date (I forget if it's 2017 or 2019) such a deal would be made, on the EU-side, by QMV rather than the current unanimity required.
Council unanimity is required to extend the two year deadline.
I couldn't give a **** which one won. But one thing an Owen win would do. Labour will have a cast iron promise either not to invoke Art.50 or renegotiate with the EU. Do not forget 48.3% voted for status quo and all 51.7% did not vote for curbing immigration. Many Tories are privately on the same side as us.
"...after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."
Photo is not of our farm, but nearby similar landscape:
http://mocoalliance.org/wp-content/upload/img_2134-300x149.jpg
PS That hump is locally called Sugarloaf Mountain, and we can see it from the house. It played a key role in saving Washington from Lee's forces in the Civil War. From the top, Union soldiers saw the dust of the advancing army post Gettysburg, and rushed a contingent out to meet it near Frederick MD on the Monacacy River bridges. The Union lost the battle but it delayed the advance sufficiently for sufficient defences to be set up.
http://www.dw.com/en/germanys-vice-chancellor-gabriel-us-eu-trade-talks-have-failed/a-19509401
I also think that the need for unanimity in the Council is overplayed. Yes, it is written in law. But what does it mean in practice? Will a Slovenia or Bulgaria really stand in front of the German steamroller in order to hold out for what will, in any event, be scraps vis-a-vis its relationship with the UK, when it has much more at stake re its ongoing and future relationship with Germany within the EU? I am sure Ms Merkel has a little black book she marks people's and country's names in.
I do take your point though. The EU27 have enough on their plate without endless sturm und drang with the UK.
You've had some time on your hands this afternoon. Your assessment of the 200k UK housing market is very endearing.
Hope it finds a way to make money, best platform for all sorts of discussion that doesn't involve bragging a la FaceSpace.
Not fond of Faceborg.
There's a lot of City types/lawyers and other professionals that perhaps don't quite get it.
170 tweets later - babies!
As you say, the 51.7% (including me) did so for a multitude of reasons and do not form a coherent bloc but I'm not sure the 48.3% do either and too many are assuming they do.
For all the hyperbole, we know rules can be changed - the option for the UK to rejoin the EU still exists and I agree the stumbling block currently is we would have to rejoin without the various rebates and opt outs negotiated since Maastricht. However, it would be possible to create a new "deal" (heard that somewhere before) which could be put to the British people as a basis for rejoining (perhaps as an Associate Member in first instance).
The EU has the option of making it hard for us to leave "pour ne pas encourager les autres" as it were and we can make life difficult for the EU (and ourselves). That seems to be the only option since a more pragmatic and sensible organisation wouldn't have allowed itself to get to this point.
The problem with trying to sell the future is that in most instances the past doesn't look such a bad place - it's only when it does look really bad, 1945, 1979 and to an extent both 1997 and 2010 that the future or rather something different looks an option.
Almost every Con/Lab marginal voted Leave.
However, what Tim and people like him need to explain is that, assuming they are in Government in 2020, is how and on what terms they will re-negotiate the UK's return to the EU. What series of terms and condition (if you like) can they get from Brussels that would be a) different enough from those negotiated by Cameron and rejected on June 23rd while b) recognising the very real concerns about immigration and a range of other issues that led to the LEAVE vote in the first place ?
A second referendum in 2023 ?
TTIP has failed – but no one is admitting it, says German Vice-Chancellor
Germany’s Vice-Chancellor said in 14 rounds of talks neither side had agreed on a single common chapter out of the 27 being deliberated.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ttip-trade-deal-agreement-failed-brexit-latest-news-eu-us-germany-vice-chancellor-a7213876.html
14 rounds of talks and not one single agreement on any of the 27 principles. At this moment it's just a vehicle for negotiators to enjoy jollies.
I rather think that the good FoxinSox, gent and medicus of this parish, was correct when he said on here this morning that the UK will be leaving the EU without an agreement and reverting to WTO rules. If I was PM I would now set up a team focusing on just that so that if the worse comes to the worst I would have a plan ready to implement.
It also brings into question the TPP on the US side. The whole point of the deals from a US perspective was to ensure primacy of US goods and services standards in Asia and Europe, but without Europe it's a bit pointless.
We never had the opportunity to see Dave's deal put to the acid test. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have withstood challenge.
Interesting. I wonder if Brexit has had an effect. Until Brexit we had seen anti establishment fringe parties doing well but not quite ever winning.
Britain, the last place you might expect, finally broke this by defeating more or less the entire establishment in Brexit referendum.
Now people know it CAN be done.
Is this feasible politically? Dunno, but it's an interesting suggestion.
Im coming to the conclusion that Smith is an out and out eurofanatic who will stuff the opposition front benches with mandelsonite pro european weasels and do everything to frustrate and delay Brexit. This must not happen.
Like you, I think approaching the negotiation on a sector by sector basis makes sense. The Single Market will not have the same importance to every industry. For some it may not matter at all; others would be devastated without it. It's an analogue, rather than a binary scale.
Its not exactly a progressive piece of legislation.
The only change they made was abolishing the death penalty for it. Incredible to thunk that Dianas lovers in the 1990s could have been hanged if the crown had elected to prosecute them for Treason (and could still be prosecuted and get life upon conviction) A bit middle eastern really.
I do wonder if the North American Free Trade Area was so named so that it could be altered to the North Atlantic Free Trade Area when we join
https://twitter.com/BjCruickshank/status/769686131067740160
I tend to agree with you that it's very ambitious. I think we'll probably get hassle- and tariff-free access to the Single Market in manufactured goods - so the car industry should be OK - but that financial services are not going to get the access they currently have.
Automotive is manufactured goods which seems to be much easier to achieve a single market situatyon in than services. Also Germany gets hit big time if tariffs go on that trade.
That banner is clearly not the work of Mr. G. Not a single mention of a turnip.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37210411
For those who missed it, my ramble about the race is up here:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/belgium-post-race-analysis-2016.html
There is an alternative that perhaps HMG should not try to pick winners and concentrate on providing the best environment for industry to thrive.
This brings to mind Wales (don't know enough about it to tell you where though), parts of Scotland, and much of the North of England. Or the quieter seaside towns - somewhere like the IOW?
http://www.bbc.com/news/education-37164549