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  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Mr. M, ah, right.

    Mind you, the Ottomans did get to the gates of Vienna a couple of centuries later.

    The Vienna campaign was in part driven by the desire to reassert control over central European trade routes. It's common for rulers to see adventurism as a solution to domestic issues c.f. Galtieri, Kirchner and Putin.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,296
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Well this is going well at the Oval. Cook's decision to bat is looking about as bad as Nasser's decision to bowl at the Gabba in 2002.

    Not really. It is clearly a fine pitch for batting as the Pakistani's have proven, so deciding to bat on it made sense. We just haven't batted well on it.
    I remember Mark Taylor choosing to bat on a damp pitch at Old Trafford in 1997. They got a bit lucky because Steve Waugh got away with a very good LBW shout. But the difference back then was that the pitch was genuinely damp and Taylor knew that the quicks would churn it up and he had Warne waiting to do the damage. This time, Cook gave up the opportunity to use an under-prepared pitch.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    GOP strategists dumbfounded as Trump campaigns in bluest Connecticut whilst red states turn purple :

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-connecticut-why-is-he-campaigning-there-226959
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Mr. Llama, can't argue against the idea that revisionists trying to impose contemporary perspectives on history are daft.

    I think history is basically gossip with a bigger vocabulary anyway.
    History is just lots of individual days strung together.

    Just like climate is just lots of bits of weather in a row.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930

    John_M said:

    nunu said:

    So they are economic migrants.
    Bit harsh. Can't have them languishing about doing nothing.
    Economic migrants should return home.
    Surely genuine refugees should "sing for their supper". It's not like they'll be displacing German workers given that unemployment in Germany is at 25 year low.
  • Mr. StClare, counter-intuitive things happen with direct descendants over long periods of time. Over 99% of Anglo-Saxon Englishmen are directly descended from Mohammed. [Because John of Gaunt had many children, and I think his wife was descended from a Moorish noble who was descended from Mohammed].

    Edited extra bit: for those wondering, the source for that is Ian Mortimer, in his biography of Edward III.

    Which also means we are almost all royalty.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,562
    JackW said:

    GOP strategists dumbfounded as Trump campaigns in bluest Connecticut whilst red states turn purple :

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-connecticut-why-is-he-campaigning-there-226959

    It is difficult to understand what he is playing at.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,755

    Mr. StClare, counter-intuitive things happen with direct descendants over long periods of time. Over 99% of Anglo-Saxon Englishmen are directly descended from Mohammed. [Because John of Gaunt had many children, and I think his wife was descended from a Moorish noble who was descended from Mohammed].

    Edited extra bit: for those wondering, the source for that is Ian Mortimer, in his biography of Edward III.

    Lots of Visigothic nobles turned Muslim, after 711, and then their descendants turned Christian, during the Reconquista.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,158

    Mr. StClare, counter-intuitive things happen with direct descendants over long periods of time. Over 99% of Anglo-Saxon Englishmen are directly descended from Mohammed. [Because John of Gaunt had many children, and I think his wife was descended from a Moorish noble who was descended from Mohammed].

    Edited extra bit: for those wondering, the source for that is Ian Mortimer, in his biography of Edward III.

    Which also means we are almost all royalty.
    JohnO's claim to a Royal Dukedom has been strengthened somewhat.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930
    chestnut said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GeoffM said:

    GIN1138 said:

    A delay while we sort ourselves out is fine but if this goes on too long we'll become the laughing stock of the world.

    I think, Q1 or Q2 2017 is about as long as this can go on for. If we get to June 2017, one year after we voted to LEAVE and we still haven't invoked A50 expect "ructions" across England and Wales...

    "laughing stock of the world"?

    A tad over the top there, I feel.
    You vote to leave. And then you don't leave. Infact, you don't even trigger the formal steps to begin the process of leaving.

    We'd look ridiculous.
    Not remotely. It is quite logical to invoke Article 50 in about November 2017 to January 2018. This window is perfect as it gets out of the way the French and German elections (as well as a few other big ones) ensuring "being tough on the English" doesn't become a campaign issue for them during our window. Secondly it ensures our two year window ends in plenty of time for a 2020 General Election.

    Let's say the negotiations see us leaving on New Years Day 2020. We will be out. The fact that it took a few years will be a moot point, getting a good deal is what matters.
    The electoral issue is a strange one. There will be some pressure to be tough, but there will also be pressure to be pragmatic and protect national economies and jobs.

    It's pointless serving A50 in advance of the French election because Hollande is a dead man walking. Merkel however......
    The CDU/CSU is still 15 points clear of the SPD in Germany, and 20-25 points clear of the AfD and the Greens. The most likely outcome - given that the German economic is still doing pretty well by World standards - is something like this:
    CDU/CSU    35%
    SPD 18%
    AfD 14%
    Greens 12%
    Die Linke 9%
    FDP 7%
    Under those circumstances, I'd expect a CDU/Green/FDP coalition rather than a Grand One. The SPD is desperate, I think, to return to opposition.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Nate Silver's latest forecasts :

    Clinton 87.8 .. Trump 12.2 - Polls Only
    Clinton 77.6 .. Trump 22.4 - Polls Plus
    Clinton 90.8 .. Trump 9.2 - Nowcast

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo#now
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    RobD said:

    Mr. StClare, counter-intuitive things happen with direct descendants over long periods of time. Over 99% of Anglo-Saxon Englishmen are directly descended from Mohammed. [Because John of Gaunt had many children, and I think his wife was descended from a Moorish noble who was descended from Mohammed].

    Edited extra bit: for those wondering, the source for that is Ian Mortimer, in his biography of Edward III.

    Which also means we are almost all royalty.
    JohnO's claim to a Royal Dukedom has been strengthened somewhat.
    But so has ours, by the same token!
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited August 2016
    Sean_F said:

    Mr. StClare, counter-intuitive things happen with direct descendants over long periods of time. Over 99% of Anglo-Saxon Englishmen are directly descended from Mohammed. [Because John of Gaunt had many children, and I think his wife was descended from a Moorish noble who was descended from Mohammed].

    Edited extra bit: for those wondering, the source for that is Ian Mortimer, in his biography of Edward III.

    Lots of Visigothic nobles turned Muslim, after 711, and then their descendants turned Christian, during the Reconquista.
    I believe we are all descended from Charlemagne. I can probably dig up the evidence for that assertion if you're not willing to simply luxuriate in reflected glory. One of Dawkins tomes (before he simply became a dreary, shrill anti-Deist iirc).

    @rcs1000 Don't think Merkel's even announced she's running yet, has she?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,158
    edited August 2016
    John_M said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. StClare, counter-intuitive things happen with direct descendants over long periods of time. Over 99% of Anglo-Saxon Englishmen are directly descended from Mohammed. [Because John of Gaunt had many children, and I think his wife was descended from a Moorish noble who was descended from Mohammed].

    Edited extra bit: for those wondering, the source for that is Ian Mortimer, in his biography of Edward III.

    Lots of Visigothic nobles turned Muslim, after 711, and then their descendants turned Christian, during the Reconquista.
    I believe we are all descended from Charlemagne. I can probably dig up the evidence for that assertion if you're not willing to simply luxuriate in reflected glory. One of Dawkins tomes (before he simply became a dreary, shrill anti-Deist iirc).

    @rcs1000 Don't think Merkel's even announced she's running yet, has she?
    I remember a few years ago SeanT saying that Elizabeth was a direct descendant of Thor, via (I htink) Scandinavian royalty. :D
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    GOP strategists dumbfounded as Trump campaigns in bluest Connecticut whilst red states turn purple :

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-connecticut-why-is-he-campaigning-there-226959

    It is difficult to understand what he is playing at.
    What was a masterful strategy by Trump for the GOP primaries is a now a masterful strategy for the general election for Clinton.

    Simply put, Donald is Donald and there's no changing him, his strategy or his demise.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    John_M said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. StClare, counter-intuitive things happen with direct descendants over long periods of time. Over 99% of Anglo-Saxon Englishmen are directly descended from Mohammed. [Because John of Gaunt had many children, and I think his wife was descended from a Moorish noble who was descended from Mohammed].

    Edited extra bit: for those wondering, the source for that is Ian Mortimer, in his biography of Edward III.

    Lots of Visigothic nobles turned Muslim, after 711, and then their descendants turned Christian, during the Reconquista.
    I believe we are all descended from Charlemagne. I can probably dig up the evidence for that assertion if you're not willing to simply luxuriate in reflected glory. One of Dawkins tomes (before he simply became a dreary, shrill anti-Deist iirc).

    @rcs1000 Don't think Merkel's even announced she's running yet, has she?
    Indeed! Minor Googling gives us this sort of Charlemagne stuff:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/commentisfree/2015/may/24/business-genetic-ancestry-charlemagne-adam-rutherford
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,562
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    GOP strategists dumbfounded as Trump campaigns in bluest Connecticut whilst red states turn purple :

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-connecticut-why-is-he-campaigning-there-226959

    It is difficult to understand what he is playing at.
    What was a masterful strategy by Trump for the GOP primaries is a now a masterful strategy for the general election for Clinton.

    Simply put, Donald is Donald and there's no changing him, his strategy or his demise.
    Let's hope so. I have a nuclear shelter for the garden to build this Fall otherwise.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    rcs1000 said:


    The CDU/CSU is still 15 points clear of the SPD in Germany, and 20-25 points clear of the AfD and the Greens. The most likely outcome - given that the German economic is still doing pretty well by World standards - is something like this:

    CDU/CSU    35%
    SPD 18%
    AfD 14%
    Greens 12%
    Die Linke 9%
    FDP 7%
    Under those circumstances, I'd expect a CDU/Green/FDP coalition rather than a Grand One. The SPD is desperate, I think, to return to opposition.
    I'd put the SPD higher and AfD lower but otherwise I think about right, and agree with your conclusions. The absence of a coherent alternative leaves Merkel in good shape.

    As for internal UK ructions, I dunno. It's all gone very quiet. Admittedly it's August, but with the co-option of the main Tory leavers into the Government, the apparent retirement of Farage and the self-preoccupation of Labour, there is nobody prominent in the UK saying "oh, get on with it". The general public? Maybe. I get the impression that having cocked a snook at the Establishment, they aren't especially in a hurry to get all the details nailed down.

  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    GeoffM said:

    John_M said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. StClare, counter-intuitive things happen with direct descendants over long periods of time. Over 99% of Anglo-Saxon Englishmen are directly descended from Mohammed. [Because John of Gaunt had many children, and I think his wife was descended from a Moorish noble who was descended from Mohammed].

    Edited extra bit: for those wondering, the source for that is Ian Mortimer, in his biography of Edward III.

    Lots of Visigothic nobles turned Muslim, after 711, and then their descendants turned Christian, during the Reconquista.
    I believe we are all descended from Charlemagne. I can probably dig up the evidence for that assertion if you're not willing to simply luxuriate in reflected glory. One of Dawkins tomes (before he simply became a dreary, shrill anti-Deist iirc).

    @rcs1000 Don't think Merkel's even announced she's running yet, has she?
    Indeed! Minor Googling gives us this sort of Charlemagne stuff:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/commentisfree/2015/may/24/business-genetic-ancestry-charlemagne-adam-rutherford
    Thanks Geoff, much appreciated.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited August 2016
    A knifeman has set fire to a train in north-eastern Switzerland, leaving six people in hospital with stab wounds and burns, police say.

    The suspect, described as a Swiss man aged 27, was also taken to hospital after the incident near Salez in St Gallen Canton, close to Liechtenstein.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37072847

    I think given the currently climate it would be more helpful if the authorities were clearer about the individual.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,562
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    GOP strategists dumbfounded as Trump campaigns in bluest Connecticut whilst red states turn purple :

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-connecticut-why-is-he-campaigning-there-226959

    It is difficult to understand what he is playing at.
    What was a masterful strategy by Trump for the GOP primaries is a now a masterful strategy for the general election for Clinton.

    Simply put, Donald is Donald and there's no changing him, his strategy or his demise.
    Trump has just 3 weeks to turn it around, or GOP will cut him loose:

    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/291310-is-trump-in-danger-of-losing-gop
  • chestnut said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GeoffM said:

    GIN1138 said:

    A delay while we sort ourselves out is fine but if this goes on too long we'll become the laughing stock of the world.

    I think, Q1 or Q2 2017 is about as long as this can go on for. If we get to June 2017, one year after we voted to LEAVE and we still haven't invoked A50 expect "ructions" across England and Wales...

    "laughing stock of the world"?

    A tad over the top there, I feel.
    You vote to leave. And then you don't leave. Infact, you don't even trigger the formal steps to begin the process of leaving.

    We'd look ridiculous.
    Not remotely. It is quite logical to invoke Article 50 in about November 2017 to January 2018. This window is perfect as it gets out of the way the French and German elections (as well as a few other big ones) ensuring "being tough on the English" doesn't become a campaign issue for them during our window. Secondly it ensures our two year window ends in plenty of time for a 2020 General Election.

    Let's say the negotiations see us leaving on New Years Day 2020. We will be out. The fact that it took a few years will be a moot point, getting a good deal is what matters.
    The electoral issue is a strange one. There will be some pressure to be tough, but there will also be pressure to be pragmatic and protect national economies and jobs.

    It's pointless serving A50 in advance of the French election because Hollande is a dead man walking. Merkel however......
    Merkel should survive with a new Grand Coalition looking likely. However once you've waited for the French elections to pass you are facing the summer recess and the German election campaign so why not wait a few more months?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    JackW said:

    Mike Littwin of the "Colorado Independent" via RCP assesses whether Trump deniers who called the primaries wrong are wary of calling the POTUS race over as the Donald limps from one horror story to another :

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/08/13/trump_is_ready_to_face_the_prospect_that_he_might_lose_131500.html

    There is quite clearly a large chunk of people unwilling to consider the possibility that the dynamics of the Republican primary are different from the general election.
  • Jazz Carling looks OK.
  • A knifeman has set fire to a train in north-eastern Switzerland, leaving six people in hospital with stab wounds and burns, police say.

    The suspect, described as a Swiss man aged 27, was also taken to hospital after the incident near Salez in St Gallen Canton, close to Liechtenstein.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37072847

    I think given the currently climate it would be more helpful if the authorities were clearer about the individual.

    Swiss man named Dave, of course.
  • MrsBMrsB Posts: 574
    Alistair said:

    JackW said:

    Mike Littwin of the "Colorado Independent" via RCP assesses whether Trump deniers who called the primaries wrong are wary of calling the POTUS race over as the Donald limps from one horror story to another :

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/08/13/trump_is_ready_to_face_the_prospect_that_he_might_lose_131500.html

    There is quite clearly a large chunk of people unwilling to consider the possibility that the dynamics of the Republican primary are different from the general election.
    "Labour leadership election" fits perfectly as a substitute for "Republican primary"
  • We're never leaving if this the brilliance of those in charge of making Brexit happen.

    EU GAFFERS Liam Fox in Brexit howler as his team admits Brit businesses could be left facing crippling tariffs on EU deals

    Officials insist the announcement had been a blunder, dubbing it 'a draft which was published in error'

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1601868/liam-foxs-department-redraws-announcement-that-britain-might-leave-the-eu-without-having-done-a-new-trade-deal/

    I've always been of the view that Liam Fox couldn't find a cup of water even if you dropped him into the Atlantic Ocean, so far nothing is make me change my mind.

    When even The Sun are criticising Leavers...

    Wealthy Europhile Lawyers like Messrs. TSE and Meeks should personally foot the bill for any continued EU protection money contributions IF we don't end up leaving.
  • JackW said:

    Mike Littwin of the "Colorado Independent" via RCP assesses whether Trump deniers who called the primaries wrong are wary of calling the POTUS race over as the Donald limps from one horror story to another :

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/08/13/trump_is_ready_to_face_the_prospect_that_he_might_lose_131500.html

    Any relation of Oliver Littwin?

    :lol:
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Alistair said:

    JackW said:

    Mike Littwin of the "Colorado Independent" via RCP assesses whether Trump deniers who called the primaries wrong are wary of calling the POTUS race over as the Donald limps from one horror story to another :

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/08/13/trump_is_ready_to_face_the_prospect_that_he_might_lose_131500.html

    There is quite clearly a large chunk of people unwilling to consider the possibility that the dynamics of the Republican primary are different from the general election.
    This was the case in 08 and 12. McCain and Romney were compromised by the primaries multiplied now significantly by the Donald.

    Additionally the demographic time bomb will keep exploding every four years with greater power each time.
  • NEW THREAD NEW THREAD

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,791
    Thanks to @Sean_F @John_M @rcs1000 (and apologes to anybody I might have missed) regarding Anthony Beevoir. He seems like a good egg, although now I have to find out how to pronounce "Beevoir" (is it one of those names whose pronounciation bears no resemblance to the spelling?)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited August 2016

    Mr. StClare, counter-intuitive things happen with direct descendants over long periods of time. Over 99% of Anglo-Saxon Englishmen are directly descended from Mohammed. [Because John of Gaunt had many children, and I think his wife was descended from a Moorish noble who was descended from Mohammed].

    Edited extra bit: for those wondering, the source for that is Ian Mortimer, in his biography of Edward III.

    It's correct - his wife was Constance of Castile, who was a descendant of the Amir of Seville al-Andalus and hence his children descend from Fatima, daughter of Mohammed.

    I'd be slightly surprised if 99% of Anglo-Saxon Englishmen are descended from Mohammed, though, as John of Gaunt had 3 wives and many more temporary arrangements - of his entire litter, Constance had only one child - Catherine of Castile - who survived infancy

    edit: you may be muddling it up with the statistic that something like 70% (?) of the current British population are descended from Edward III?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    JackW said:

    GOP strategists dumbfounded as Trump campaigns in bluest Connecticut whilst red states turn purple :

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-connecticut-why-is-he-campaigning-there-226959

    Hillary campaigned in Michigan this week.
    So I'm equally dumbfounded.

    Their internal polls must be really scrambled, or simply the crazy state pattern of Florida being tied and Pennsylvania going left of New York exists in other areas too.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,791

    GIN1138 said:

    GeoffM said:

    GIN1138 said:

    A delay while we sort ourselves out is fine but if this goes on too long we'll become the laughing stock of the world.

    I think, Q1 or Q2 2017 is about as long as this can go on for. If we get to June 2017, one year after we voted to LEAVE and we still haven't invoked A50 expect "ructions" across England and Wales...

    "laughing stock of the world"?

    A tad over the top there, I feel.
    You vote to leave. And then you don't leave. Infact, you don't even trigger the formal steps to begin the process of leaving.

    We'd look ridiculous.
    Not remotely. It is quite logical to invoke Article 50 in about November 2017 to January 2018. This window is perfect as it gets out of the way the French and German elections (as well as a few other big ones) ensuring "being tough on the English" doesn't become a campaign issue for them during our window. Secondly it ensures our two year window ends in plenty of time for a 2020 General Election.

    Let's say the negotiations see us leaving on New Years Day 2020. We will be out. The fact that it took a few years will be a moot point, getting a good deal is what matters.
    If we don't trigger Article 50 by May 2017, then the UK may still be a member by May 2019, which means there will still be slots for UK MEPs in the May 2019 European Parliament election.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    rcs1000 said:

    chestnut said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GeoffM said:

    GIN1138 said:

    A delay while we sort ourselves out is fine but if this goes on too long we'll become the laughing stock of the world.

    I think, Q1 or Q2 2017 is about as long as this can go on for. If we get to June 2017, one year after we voted to LEAVE and we still haven't invoked A50 expect "ructions" across England and Wales...

    "laughing stock of the world"?

    A tad over the top there, I feel.
    You vote to leave. And then you don't leave. Infact, you don't even trigger the formal steps to begin the process of leaving.

    We'd look ridiculous.
    Not remotely. It is quite logical to invoke Article 50 in about November 2017 to January 2018. This window is perfect as it gets out of the way the French and German elections (as well as a few other big ones) ensuring "being tough on the English" doesn't become a campaign issue for them during our window. Secondly it ensures our two year window ends in plenty of time for a 2020 General Election.

    Let's say the negotiations see us leaving on New Years Day 2020. We will be out. The fact that it took a few years will be a moot point, getting a good deal is what matters.
    The electoral issue is a strange one. There will be some pressure to be tough, but there will also be pressure to be pragmatic and protect national economies and jobs.

    It's pointless serving A50 in advance of the French election because Hollande is a dead man walking. Merkel however......
    The CDU/CSU is still 15 points clear of the SPD in Germany, and 20-25 points clear of the AfD and the Greens. The most likely outcome - given that the German economic is still doing pretty well by World standards - is something like this:
    CDU/CSU    35%
    SPD 18%
    AfD 14%
    Greens 12%
    Die Linke 9%
    FDP 7%
    Under those circumstances, I'd expect a CDU/Green/FDP coalition rather than a Grand One. The SPD is desperate, I think, to return to opposition.
    There is no current German poll with AfD at 14 and SPD at 18 .
    Highest AfD is 13 average 11
    Lowest SPD is 21 average 22
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,791
    edited August 2016

    FPT

    viewcode said:

    John_M said:

    viewcode said:

    The British Isles are self sufficient in food

    Fact check: is this even slightly true? I know that the UK is nowhere near food sufficiency and hasn't been for decades (centuries?). It never occurred to me to add RoI to things, simply because it's a different country. But even given that, I doubt this. Ireland hasn't got the climate to grow large quantities of wheat or corn, and as for fruit production (grape, bananas, oranges, peaches. etc) it's pretty much a non-starter in terms of bulk production. I'm willing to believe it produces beef, lamb, anything that can be produced by herding grazing animals that don't mind rain. But again, I can't see it producing nearly enough to feed the ~65million population of the UK as well as itself.

    (PS Paul_Bedfordshire, I need to point out that I'm not picking on you with this post: it's just that the claim is so contra-intuitive it triggered my factcheck gene)

    76% in home-grown foods according DEFRA in March 2016.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515048/food-farming-stats-release-07apr16.pdf
    I did not know that: one learns something new every day. But even having said that, 76% is still far short of 100%. The remaining 24% comes to ~16million people: does RoI produce enough food to feed that 16million as well as her own 5million?

    UK is 242,000 sq km and has 64 million population.

    RoI is 70,000 sq km.

    Doing crude maths 242,000 sq km is enough to feed 48.6 million people.

    Combined size of UK and RoI is 312,000 sq km.

    That is enough land to feed 62 million.

    Total pop of RoI + UK is 69 million so near as dammit there and wouldn't need much additional land put into production to be fully there.

    In a war situation as robert alludes to the problem would be oil to run tractors etc. and getting shipping across Irish sea etc.

    Ireland has a very very low population for its size and fertility of land. Prior to the potato famine in 19th century its population was 8.2 million in 1841 million at a time when the GB population was 18.5 million. Now the whole of Ireland is approx 6.5 million and GB 62.5 million.
    The point is not that it *could* be self-sufficient in food.
    The point is that it *isn't* self-sufficient in food.
This discussion has been closed.