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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Harry Hayfield’s local elections report: What’s happened so

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  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    remarkably well or remarkably badly to be anything other than second - mind you, remarkably badly is no longer out of the question
    - Conservatives 13%
    - Other 17% (most likely SDP2, natch)
    - SNP 6% (either massive Tory landslide or complete shattering of the not-Tory vote)
    - LD 4%

    Any other thoughts?
    A0%
    La%
    I think Labour under Jezza will be sub 150 seats (on current 650 seat parliament). Nailed on in second but perhaps more interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.

    The Tories will probably have a small net gain thanks to scotland, I can easily see them beating the SNP in a handful of seats there.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.
    Why should the Lib Dems lose their Scottish seat ? I expect them to gain 3 in Scotland at the next GE .
    Alistair Carmichael, remember ?
    They won the areas in the Scottish Parliament elections - has to be a chance that either Carmichael clings on or he doesn't even stand and the usual way of things asserts itself there?
    If Carmichael doesn't stand, sure the LD might retain their single seat.

    We should never refrain from the possibility that local unpopularity of MP's might outweigh party loyalty.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    s is a really interesting point - is there a market anywhere on who will be the second largest party afte the next election? My thoughts are roughly as follows:
    - Labour 60% (they have to do either remarkably well or remarkably badly to be anything other than second - mind you, remarkably badly is no longer out of the question
    - Conservatives 13%
    - Other 17% (most likely SDP2, natch)
    - SNP 6% (either massive Tory landslide or complete shattering of the not-Tory vote)
    - LD 4%

    Any other thoughts?
    A0%
    La%
    I think Labour under Jezza will be sub 150 seats (on current 650 seat parliament). Nailed on in second but perhaps more interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.

    The Tories will probably have a small net gain thanks to scotland, I can easily see them beating the SNP in a handful of seats there.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.
    Why should the Lib Dems lose their Scottish seat ? I expect them to gain 3 in Scotland at the next GE .
    Alistair Carmichael, remember ?
    They won the areas in the Scottish Parliament elections - has to be a chance that either Carmichael clings on or he doesn't even stand and the usual way of things asserts itself there?
    The SNP tried to make the May contests into a referendum on Carmichael , that got them nowhere
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    john_zims said:

    @grabcocque

    'Does anyone actually take the slightest interest in these local by elections in the Parish Council of Arse End-by-the-Sea? (Jez excepted)'

    Mark Senior.

    We don't cover parish councils. Only Corbyn is interested in these when he's desperate for good news.

    Generally I think it is another indicator and we will go on covering.
    The key topics in Parish Council elections tend to be the village hall and the annual fete and the state of public conveniences
    Oddly enough in rural areas it is the Parish council that has charge of producing the development plan for their area. You know, where houses and stuff can be built. So actually quite an important role. In my area a proposal to build houses on some land has just been seen off because it is not in the village plan.

    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.
    That may be an important role yes although most planning decisions are taken at district council level. Parish council elections are also entirely independent as you state
    Quite so Mr. Hyfud but planning consent by the district council will be refused if the area is not one scheduled for development in the local plan, which is formed by the Parish Council.

    So Parish Councils have a leetle more relevance to people's lives than, the village hall, local fete and the public loos, don't they?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,863
    edited July 2016
    Speedy said:

    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    remarkably well or remarkably badly to be anything other than second - mind you, remarkably badly is no longer out of the question
    - Conservatives 13%
    - Other 17% (most likely SDP2, natch)
    - SNP 6% (either massive Tory landslide or complete shattering of the not-Tory vote)
    - LD 4%

    Any other thoughts?
    A0%
    La%
    I think Labour under Jezza will be sub 150 seats (on current 650 seat parliament). Nailed on in second but perhaps more interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.

    The Tories will probably have a small net gain thanks to scotland, I can easily see them beating the SNP in a handful of seats there.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.
    Why should the Lib Dems lose their Scottish seat ? I expect them to gain 3 in Scotland at the next GE .
    Alistair Carmichael, remember ?
    They won the areas in the Scottish Parliament elections - has to be a chance that either Carmichael clings on or he doesn't even stand and the usual way of things asserts itself there?
    If Carmichael doesn't stand, sure the LD might retain their single seat.

    We should never refrain from the possibility that local unpopularity of MP's might outweigh party loyalty.
    Well it was pretty close in 2015, so I would not discount that possibility. But the LDs held the area in the Scottish Parliament, when some in the SNP at least laughed at the possibility, so I'd assume the LDs have a decent chance even under Carmichael. And weirdly the LDs still seem to be polling a point or so higher in Scotland than England.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    1) I care about local election results. I seem to remember this being one of the first hting I searched for when I first discovered the internet back in the mid 90s. So thanks to Harry and others for putting these

    Any other thoughts?
    Aagh - forgot UKIP! Right, try again:

    Lab 50%
    Con 10%
    UKIP 10%
    Others 15%
    SNP 5%
    LD 10%
    Lab 70%
    Con 29%
    UKIP 1%
    Others 0%
    SNP 0%
    LD 0%
    I think Labour under Jezza will be sub 150 seats (on current 650 seat parliament). Nailed on in second but perhaps more interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.

    The Tories will probably have a small net gain thanks to scotland, I can easily see them beating the SNP in a handful of seats there.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.
    On Electoral Calculus: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=44&LAB=22&LIB=11&UKIP=13&Green=4.5&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVUKIP=&TVGreen=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2015

    I get a Con majority of 162 and Lab on 156 seats on:

    Con 44%, Lab 22%, LD 11%, UKIP 13%, Green 4.5 %, Nats 5.5%.

    Not implausible at all under Jezza.

    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    I don't think Labour [ without a break-up ] can win less than 28%.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2016

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    1) I care about local election results. I seem to remember this being one of the first hting I searched for when I first discovered the internet back in the mid 90s. So thanks to Harry and others for putting these

    Any other thoughts?
    Aagh - forgot UKIP! Right, try again:

    Lab 50%
    Con 10%
    UKIP 10%
    Others 15%
    SNP 5%
    LD 10%
    Lab 70%
    Con 29%
    UKIP 1%
    Others 0%
    SNP 0%
    LD 0%
    I think Labour under Jezza will be sub 150 seats (on current 650 seat parliament). Nailed on in second but perhaps more interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.

    The Tories will probably have a small net gain thanks to scotland, I can easily see them beating the SNP in a handful of seats there.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.
    On Electoral Calculus: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=44&LAB=22&LIB=11&UKIP=13&Green=4.5&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVUKIP=&TVGreen=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2015

    I get a Con majority of 162 and Lab on 156 seats on:

    Con 44%, Lab 22%, LD 11%, UKIP 13%, Green 4.5 %, Nats 5.5%.

    Not implausible at all under Jezza.

    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    Easy, it's a swing of 1 from the last election either way.
    Even if there is no swing at all there's bound to be some small number of seats that change hands.

    My prediction is far more realistic and practical, than May even gaining more than in her political Honeymoon.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,863

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    john_zims said:

    @grabcocque

    'Does anyone actually take the slightest interest in these local by elections in the Parish Council of Arse End-by-the-Sea? (Jez excepted)'

    Mark Senior.

    We don't cover parish councils. Only Corbyn is interested in these when he's desperate for good news.

    Generally I think it is another indicator and we will go on covering.
    The key topics in Parish Council elections tend to be the village hall and the annual fete and the state of public conveniences
    Oddly enough in rural areas it is the Parish council that has charge of producing the development plan for their area. You know, where houses and stuff can be built. So actually quite an important role. In my area a proposal to build houses on some land has just been seen off because it is not in the village plan.

    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.
    That may be an important role yes although most planning decisions are taken at district council level. Parish council elections are also entirely independent as you state
    Quite so Mr. Hyfud but planning consent by the district council will be refused if the area is not one scheduled for development in the local plan, which is formed by the Parish Council.

    So Parish Councils have a leetle more relevance to people's lives than, the village hall, local fete and the public loos, don't they?
    How many parish councils actually have local plans? Takes time and effort doesn't it?
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Mortimer said:

    timmo said:

    tlg86 said:

    Why should the Lib Dems lose their Scottish seat ?

    That's possibly the funniest thing I have ever seen on here!
    Strangely enough it is thebtribal LDs total and utter belief in their own invincibility that always leads to their downfall..
    The strange disappearance of Liberal England?
    I shudder every time that book is mentioned. It's such utter rubbish.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    1) I care about local election results. I seem to remember this being one of the first hting I searched for when I first discovered the internet back in the mid 90s. So thanks to Harry and others for putting these

    Any other thoughts?
    Aagh - forgot UKIP! Right, try again:

    Lab 50%
    Con 10%
    UKIP 10%
    Others 15%
    SNP 5%
    LD 10%
    Lab 70%
    Con 29%
    UKIP 1%
    Others 0%
    SNP 0%
    LD 0%
    I think Labour under Jezza will be sub 150 seats (on current 650 seat parliament). Nailed on in second but perhaps more interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.

    The Tories will probably have a small net gain thanks to scotland, I can easily see them beating the SNP in a handful of seats there.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.
    On Electoral Calculus: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=44&LAB=22&LIB=11&UKIP=13&Green=4.5&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVUKIP=&TVGreen=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2015

    I get a Con majority of 162 and Lab on 156 seats on:

    Con 44%, Lab 22%, LD 11%, UKIP 13%, Green 4.5 %, Nats 5.5%.

    Not implausible at all under Jezza.

    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    Easy, it's a swing of 1 from the last election either way.
    Even if there is no swing at all there's bound to be some small number of seats that change hands.

    My prediction is far more realistic and practical, than May even gaining more than in her political Honeymoon.
    Delusional, but even if true it leaves Labour impotent on the opposition benches for another 5 years.

    Face it. Jezza is a disaster.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Speedy said:

    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    remarkably well or remarkably badly to be anything other than second - mind you, remarkably badly is no longer out of the question
    - Conservatives 13%
    - Other 17% (most likely SDP2, natch)
    - SNP 6% (either massive Tory landslide or complete shattering of the not-Tory vote)
    - LD 4%

    Any other thoughts?
    A0%
    La%
    I think Labour under Jezza will be sub 150 seats (on current 650 seat parliament). Nailed on in second but perhaps more interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.

    The Tories will probably have a small net gain thanks to scotland, I can easily see them beating the SNP in a handful of seats there.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.
    Why should the Lib Dems lose their Scottish seat ? I expect them to gain 3 in Scotland at the next GE .
    Alistair Carmichael, remember ?
    They won the areas in the Scottish Parliament elections - has to be a chance that either Carmichael clings on or he doesn't even stand and the usual way of things asserts itself there?
    If Carmichael doesn't stand, sure the LD might retain their single seat.

    We should never refrain from the possibility that local unpopularity of MP's might outweigh party loyalty.
    You clearly know Sweet FA about the constituency If you think Carmichael is locally unpopular
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    AndyJS said:

    The night so far in supporting nomination meetings

    Bristol NW: Corbyn
    Swansea West: Corbyn
    Grantham and Stamford : Corbyn
    Brent Central: Corbyn 69 Smith 24
    Romford: Corbyn 18 Smith 10
    Crewe & Nantwich: Corbyn 67 Smith 11
    Bristol East: Corbyn 52 Smith 20
    Colchester: Corbyn
    South Thanet: Corbyn
    Morecambe and Lunesdale : Corbyn
    Southampton Test : Corbyn
    Chesterfield: Corbyn

    Streatham: Smith
    Altrincham and Sale West: Smith 21 Corbyn 15
    West Ham: Smith 30 Corbyn 27
    Vauxhall: Smith 107 Corbyn 73

    Interesting that a lot of London CLPs are going for Smith this time.
    Particularly bearing in mind how many of Labour's members are in London, that is.

    By the way, The Daily Mash is often very good at capturing the mood of (much of) the nation. Their take on the Owen Smith is now in: "Everyone worried Owen Smith will try to sell them a vacuum cleaner."

    BRITONS are worried that Labour leadership candidate Owen Smith might try to sell them life insurance or solar panels, they have revealed.

    Many have noted Smith’s resemblance to the sort of salesperson who talks you into buying unnecessary insurance cover or a top-of-the range vacuum cleaner when a £35 one would do.

    Teacher Donna Sheridan said: “I’ve got this nagging fear there’ll be a knock on the door and it’ll be Owen asking if he can come in to discuss solar panels.

    “Or maybe I’ll go to Currys for a telly and he’ll be there and persuade me it’s ‘worth spending a bit extra’ and I’ll end up with a 75” HD smart TV when I only wanted it to occasionally watch the snooker.
    Vote Labour and win a microwave, part 2?
  • On the LD surge in Scotland at Holyrood 16- they put huge efforts in at a local level where seats had previously returned LD candidates e.g. NE Fife, so this returned them a handful of constituency seats. I'd expect similar at a GE and a few seats coming back over to SLab from the SNP. Would be pretty surprised if the SNP didn't hold on to well over 40 seats (assuming no major events/changes in circs between then and now).

    One of the most amusing parts of the Corbyn fiasco for me is watching all those pro-Corbyn social media having to row back on the bold claims about how he was going to 'win back Scotland'. Clueless.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,204
    justin124 said:

    Speedy said:

    justin124 said:

    The night so far in supporting nomination meetings

    Bristol NW: Corbyn
    Swansea West: Corbyn
    Grantham and Stamford : Corbyn
    Brent Central: Corbyn 69 Smith 24
    Romford: Corbyn 18 Smith 10
    Crewe & Nantwich: Corbyn 67 Smith 11
    Bristol East: Corbyn 52 Smith 20
    Colchester: Corbyn
    South Thanet: Corbyn 25 Smith 2 Spoilt 1
    Morecambe and Lunesdale : Corbyn
    Southampton Test : Corbyn
    Chesterfield: Corbyn

    Streatham: Smith
    Altrincham and Sale West: Smith 21 Corbyn 15
    West Ham: Smith 30 Corbyn 27
    Vauxhall: Smith 107 Corbyn 73

    These figures represent a tiny % of the membership of most CLPs. They have no binding force at all and may have little bearing on how members will vote in 4 or 5 weeks time.
    I think so far 80% or more of CLP's have declared their support for Corbyn.

    But it's a safe choice, the BMG poll today had Labour voters past and present backing Corbyn over Smith by large or very large margins (60-75% for Corbyn).

    Since the Members have even larger support for Corbyn than Labour voters, you can see that Corbyn could have an excess of a 2-1 lead over Smith.
    Possibly if members were voting today but I would expect Smith's higher profile to eat into that margin over coming weeks.
    I'm not sure Smith is one of those candidates where knowing more helps. The BBC 999 story made him a laughing stock amongst my lefty mates.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    surbiton said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    1) I care about local election results. I seem to remember this being one of the first hting I searched for when I first discovered the internet back in the mid 90s. So thanks to Harry and others for putting these

    Any other thoughts?
    Aagh - forgot UKIP! Right, try again:

    Lab 50%
    Con 10%
    UKIP 10%
    Others 15%
    SNP 5%
    LD 10%
    Lab 70%
    Con 29%
    UKIP 1%
    Others 0%
    SNP 0%
    LD 0%
    I think Labour under Jezza will be sub 150 seats (on current 650 seat parliament). Nailed on in second but perhaps more interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.

    The Tories will probably have a small net gain thanks to scotland, I can easily see them beating the SNP in a handful of seats there.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.
    On Electoral Calculus: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=44&LAB=22&LIB=11&UKIP=13&Green=4.5&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVUKIP=&TVGreen=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2015

    I get a Con majority of 162 and Lab on 156 seats on:

    Con 44%, Lab 22%, LD 11%, UKIP 13%, Green 4.5 %, Nats 5.5%.

    Not implausible at all under Jezza.

    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    I don't think Labour [ without a break-up ] can win less than 28%.
    I think under Jezza they will. Fancy creating a wager out of it? Bet void if Jezza deposed.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    EPG said:

    justin124 said:

    The night so far in supporting nomination meetings

    Bristol NW: Corbyn
    Swansea West: Corbyn
    Grantham and Stamford : Corbyn
    Brent Central: Corbyn 69 Smith 24
    Romford: Corbyn 18 Smith 10
    Crewe & Nantwich: Corbyn 67 Smith 11
    Bristol East: Corbyn 52 Smith 20
    Colchester: Corbyn
    South Thanet: Corbyn 25 Smith 2 Spoilt 1
    Morecambe and Lunesdale : Corbyn
    Southampton Test : Corbyn
    Chesterfield: Corbyn

    Streatham: Smith
    Altrincham and Sale West: Smith 21 Corbyn 15
    West Ham: Smith 30 Corbyn 27
    Vauxhall: Smith 107 Corbyn 73

    These figures represent a tiny % of the membership of most CLPs. They have no binding force at all and may have little bearing on how members will vote in 4 or 5 weeks time.
    Well. Early days yet, but the Cooper-/Kendall-endorsing CLPs are 5-2 Smith. The Corbyn/Burnham CLPs are 19-3 Corbyn. The non-declarers in 2015 are 9-1 Corbyn. Overthinking it, one might say that the Corbyn forces in the formally-organised party structures are motivated to send a message of their dominance quickly.

    From the CLP nominations I am aware of Corbyn presently leads Smith 30 - 9.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,971
    Speedy said:



    Alistair Carmichael, remember ?

    He will not be the candidate in Orkney & Shetland. And did you see the Holyrood results for O&S?

    I'll offer you 4-1 on the libdems losing o&s at the next general if you like
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2016
    justin124 said:

    Speedy said:

    justin124 said:

    The night so far in supporting nomination meetings

    Bristol NW: Corbyn
    Swansea West: Corbyn
    Grantham and Stamford : Corbyn
    Brent Central: Corbyn 69 Smith 24
    Romford: Corbyn 18 Smith 10
    Crewe & Nantwich: Corbyn 67 Smith 11
    Bristol East: Corbyn 52 Smith 20
    Colchester: Corbyn
    South Thanet: Corbyn 25 Smith 2 Spoilt 1
    Morecambe and Lunesdale : Corbyn
    Southampton Test : Corbyn
    Chesterfield: Corbyn

    Streatham: Smith
    Altrincham and Sale West: Smith 21 Corbyn 15
    West Ham: Smith 30 Corbyn 27
    Vauxhall: Smith 107 Corbyn 73

    These figures represent a tiny % of the membership of most CLPs. They have no binding force at all and may have little bearing on how members will vote in 4 or 5 weeks time.
    I think so far 80% or more of CLP's have declared their support for Corbyn.

    But it's a safe choice, the BMG poll today had Labour voters past and present backing Corbyn over Smith by large or very large margins (60-75% for Corbyn).

    Since the Members have even larger support for Corbyn than Labour voters, you can see that Corbyn could have an excess of a 2-1 lead over Smith.
    Possibly if members were voting today but I would expect Smith's higher profile to eat into that margin over coming weeks.
    So far the more Smith talks the less support he gets.

    It's fine to have the abstract idea of a challenger to Corbyn being successful on paper.
    But once you have a challenger the more people know him the more they are convinced Corbyn is a better choice.

    Angela Eagle was so bad she never even made it out of the gate.
    Owen Smith sank his campaign early on when he opened his mouth.

    Like last year, Corbyn is by default the least bad option.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,421

    On the LD surge in Scotland at Holyrood 16- they put huge efforts in at a local level where seats had previously returned LD candidates e.g. NE Fife, so this returned them a handful of constituency seats. I'd expect similar at a GE and a few seats coming back over to SLab from the SNP. Would be pretty surprised if the SNP didn't hold on to well over 40 seats (assuming no major events/changes in circs between then and now).

    One of the most amusing parts of the Corbyn fiasco for me is watching all those pro-Corbyn social media having to row back on the bold claims about how he was going to 'win back Scotland'. Clueless.

    There has to be a real chance that Labour will be fourth in Scotland in terms of seats at the next General Election. Which would be really funny.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,814
    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Speedy said:

    justin124 said:

    The night so far in supporting nomination meetings

    Bristol NW: Corbyn
    Swansea West: Corbyn
    Grantham and Stamford : Corbyn
    Brent Central: Corbyn 69 Smith 24
    Romford: Corbyn 18 Smith 10
    Crewe & Nantwich: Corbyn 67 Smith 11
    Bristol East: Corbyn 52 Smith 20
    Colchester: Corbyn
    South Thanet: Corbyn 25 Smith 2 Spoilt 1
    Morecambe and Lunesdale : Corbyn
    Southampton Test : Corbyn
    Chesterfield: Corbyn

    Streatham: Smith
    Altrincham and Sale West: Smith 21 Corbyn 15
    West Ham: Smith 30 Corbyn 27
    Vauxhall: Smith 107 Corbyn 73

    These figures represent a tiny % of the membership of most CLPs. They have no binding force at all and may have little bearing on how members will vote in 4 or 5 weeks time.
    I think so far 80% or more of CLP's have declared their support for Corbyn.

    But it's a safe choice, the BMG poll today had Labour voters past and present backing Corbyn over Smith by large or very large margins (60-75% for Corbyn).

    Since the Members have even larger support for Corbyn than Labour voters, you can see that Corbyn could have an excess of a 2-1 lead over Smith.
    Possibly if members were voting today but I would expect Smith's higher profile to eat into that margin over coming weeks.
    I'm not sure Smith is one of those candidates where knowing more helps. The BBC 999 story made him a laughing stock amongst my lefty mates.
    Well it will be their party which will be a laughing stock if they stick with Corbyn!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,814

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    john_zims said:

    @grabcocque

    'Does anyone actually take the slightest interest in these local by elections in the Parish Council of Arse End-by-the-Sea? (Jez excepted)'

    Mark Senior.

    We don't cover parish councils. Only Corbyn is interested in these when he's desperate for good news.

    Generally I think it is another indicator and we will go on covering.
    The key topics in Parish Council elections tend to be the village hall and the annual fete and the state of public conveniences
    Oddly enough in rural areas it is the Parish council that has charge of producing the development plan for their area. You know, where houses and stuff can be built. So actually quite an important role. In my area a proposal to build houses on some land has just been seen off because it is not in the village plan.

    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.
    That may be an important role yes although most planning decisions are taken at district council level. Parish council elections are also entirely independent as you state
    Quite so Mr. Hyfud but planning consent by the district council will be refused if the area is not one scheduled for development in the local plan, which is formed by the Parish Council.

    So Parish Councils have a leetle more relevance to people's lives than, the village hall, local fete and the public loos, don't they?
    Unless you have a specific development affecting your area of the village not really and even then the District Council has the final say. For most villagers the work the Parish Council does on the village hall, the fete and the public loos is actually more relevant
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    DavidL said:

    On the LD surge in Scotland at Holyrood 16- they put huge efforts in at a local level where seats had previously returned LD candidates e.g. NE Fife, so this returned them a handful of constituency seats. I'd expect similar at a GE and a few seats coming back over to SLab from the SNP. Would be pretty surprised if the SNP didn't hold on to well over 40 seats (assuming no major events/changes in circs between then and now).

    One of the most amusing parts of the Corbyn fiasco for me is watching all those pro-Corbyn social media having to row back on the bold claims about how he was going to 'win back Scotland'. Clueless.

    There has to be a real chance that Labour will be fourth in Scotland in terms of seats at the next General Election. Which would be really funny.
    On the other hand Labour was not expected to win any constituency seats at this year's Holyrood elections . In the end they managed three - which was some advance on the 2015 election.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited July 2016

    surbiton said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    1) I care about local election results. I seem to remember this being one of the first hting I searched for when I first discovered the internet back in the mid 90s. So thanks to Harry and others for putting these

    Any other thoughts?
    Aagh - forgot UKIP! Right, try again:

    Lab 50%
    Con 10%
    UKIP 10%
    Others 15%
    SNP 5%
    LD 10%
    Lab 70%
    Con 29%
    UKIP 1%
    Others 0%
    SNP 0%
    LD 0%
    I think Labour under Jezza will be sub 150 seats (on current 650 seat parliament). Nailed on in second but perhaps more interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.

    The Tories will probably have a small net gain thanks to scotland, I can easily see them beating the SNP in a handful of seats there.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.
    On Electoral Calculus: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=44&LAB=22&LIB=11&UKIP=13&Green=4.5&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVUKIP=&TVGreen=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2015

    I get a Con majority of 162 and Lab on 156 seats on:

    Con 44%, Lab 22%, LD 11%, UKIP 13%, Green 4.5 %, Nats 5.5%.

    Not implausible at all under Jezza.

    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    I don't think Labour [ without a break-up ] can win less than 28%.
    I think under Jezza they will. Fancy creating a wager out of it? Bet void if Jezza deposed.
    Ooooh! Yes, Please!

    Not serious money (because I am not allowed to that anymore) but I'll wager a bottle of something decent or, say, fifty quid to your favourite charity (RNLI for me) that at the next GE Labour will secure between 27.5% and 28.5% of the vote, bet void if there is a split in the party.

    What say you, Doc, are you on?
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Speedy said:

    justin124 said:

    Speedy said:

    justin124 said:

    The night so far in supporting nomination meetings

    Bristol NW: Corbyn
    Swansea West: Corbyn
    Grantham and Stamford : Corbyn
    Brent Central: Corbyn 69 Smith 24
    Romford: Corbyn 18 Smith 10
    Crewe & Nantwich: Corbyn 67 Smith 11
    Bristol East: Corbyn 52 Smith 20
    Colchester: Corbyn
    South Thanet: Corbyn 25 Smith 2 Spoilt 1
    Morecambe and Lunesdale : Corbyn
    Southampton Test : Corbyn
    Chesterfield: Corbyn

    Streatham: Smith
    Altrincham and Sale West: Smith 21 Corbyn 15
    West Ham: Smith 30 Corbyn 27
    Vauxhall: Smith 107 Corbyn 73

    These figures represent a tiny % of the membership of most CLPs. They have no binding force at all and may have little bearing on how members will vote in 4 or 5 weeks time.
    I think so far 80% or more of CLP's have declared their support for Corbyn.

    But it's a safe choice, the BMG poll today had Labour voters past and present backing Corbyn over Smith by large or very large margins (60-75% for Corbyn).

    Since the Members have even larger support for Corbyn than Labour voters, you can see that Corbyn could have an excess of a 2-1 lead over Smith.
    Possibly if members were voting today but I would expect Smith's higher profile to eat into that margin over coming weeks.
    So far the more Smith talks the less support he gets.

    It's fine to have the abstract idea of a challenger to Corbyn being successful on paper.
    But once you have a challenger the more people know him the more they are convinced Corbyn is a better choice.

    Angela Eagle was so bad she never even made it out of the gate.
    Owen Smith sank his campaign early on when he opened his mouth.

    Like last year, Corbyn is by default the least bad option.
    The same Corbyn who called Hamas friends and said he would never use these nuclear deterrent? And had the support of about 20 MPs? That Corbyn?

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    john_zims said:

    @grabcocque

    'Does anyone actually take the slightest interest in these local by elections in the Parish Council of Arse End-by-the-Sea? (Jez excepted)'

    Mark Senior.

    We don't cover parish councils. Only Corbyn is interested in these when he's desperate for good news.

    Generally I think it is another indicator and we will go on covering.
    The key topics in Parish Council elections tend to be the village hall and the annual fete and the state of public conveniences
    Oddly enough in rural areas it is the Parish council that has charge of producing the development plan for their area. You know, where houses and stuff can be built. So actually quite an important role. In my area a proposal to build houses on some land has just been seen off because it is not in the village plan.

    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.
    That may be an important role yes although most planning decisions are taken at district council level. Parish council elections are also entirely independent as you state
    Quite so Mr. Hyfud but planning consent by the district council will be refused if the area is not one scheduled for development in the local plan, which is formed by the Parish Council.

    So Parish Councils have a leetle more relevance to people's lives than, the village hall, local fete and the public loos, don't they?
    Unless you have a specific development affecting your area of the village not really and even then the District Council has the final say. For most villagers the work the Parish Council does on the village hall, the fete and the public loos is actually more relevant
    Having a parish plan is a fairly effective way of controlling development. It is not Nimbyism if specific sites are designated for development both commercial and residential. It carries quite a lot of weight with the District Council.
  • DavidL said:

    On the LD surge in Scotland at Holyrood 16- they put huge efforts in at a local level where seats had previously returned LD candidates e.g. NE Fife, so this returned them a handful of constituency seats. I'd expect similar at a GE and a few seats coming back over to SLab from the SNP. Would be pretty surprised if the SNP didn't hold on to well over 40 seats (assuming no major events/changes in circs between then and now).

    One of the most amusing parts of the Corbyn fiasco for me is watching all those pro-Corbyn social media having to row back on the bold claims about how he was going to 'win back Scotland'. Clueless.

    There has to be a real chance that Labour will be fourth in Scotland in terms of seats at the next General Election. Which would be really funny.
    It would be deserved. They seem to be in an unending spiral of despair in Scotland - even the Lib Dems have more to offer.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    john_zims said:

    @grabcocque

    'Does anyone actually take the slightest interest in these local by elections in the Parish Council of Arse End-by-the-Sea? (Jez excepted)'

    Mark Senior.

    We don't cover parish councils. Only Corbyn is interested in these when he's desperate for good news.

    Generally I think it is another indicator and we will go on covering.
    The key topics in Parish Council elections tend to be the village hall and the annual fete and the state of public conveniences
    Oddly enough in rural areas it is the Parish council that has charge of producing the development plan for their area. You know, where houses and stuff can be built. So actually quite an important role. In my area a proposal to build houses on some land has just been seen off because it is not in the village plan.

    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.
    That may be an important role yes although most planning decisions are taken at district council level. Parish council elections are also entirely independent as you state
    Quite so Mr. Hyfud but planning consent by the district council will be refused if the area is not one scheduled for development in the local plan, which is formed by the Parish Council.

    So Parish Councils have a leetle more relevance to people's lives than, the village hall, local fete and the public loos, don't they?
    How many parish councils actually have local plans? Takes time and effort doesn't it?
    I should hope all of them, and each and everyone upheld in a local referendum. It was all wrapped up in planning law under the coalition, don't ask me to give chapter and verse now, much too late and I have been thinking deeply about other matters.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,421
    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    On the LD surge in Scotland at Holyrood 16- they put huge efforts in at a local level where seats had previously returned LD candidates e.g. NE Fife, so this returned them a handful of constituency seats. I'd expect similar at a GE and a few seats coming back over to SLab from the SNP. Would be pretty surprised if the SNP didn't hold on to well over 40 seats (assuming no major events/changes in circs between then and now).

    One of the most amusing parts of the Corbyn fiasco for me is watching all those pro-Corbyn social media having to row back on the bold claims about how he was going to 'win back Scotland'. Clueless.

    There has to be a real chance that Labour will be fourth in Scotland in terms of seats at the next General Election. Which would be really funny.
    On the other hand Labour was not expected to win any constituency seats at this year's Holyrood elections . In the end they managed three - which was some advance on the 2015 election.
    True. The Westminster seats are harder though because they are bigger. There is a long way to go but at the moment I would be guessing 5 tory, 3 Lib Dems, 2 Labour and the rest SNP.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,936
    Smith has so far won 50% of CLP nominations in London

    Less than 10% outside London

    A man who has no appeal outside London according to PLP is Corbyn
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    surbiton said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    1) I care about local election results. I seem to remember this being one of the first hting I searched for when I first discovered the internet back in the mid 90s. So thanks to Harry and others for putting these

    Any other thoughts?
    Aagh - forgot UKIP! Right, try again:

    Lab 50%
    Con 10%
    UKIP 10%
    Others 15%
    SNP 5%
    LD 10%
    Lab 70%
    Con 29%
    UKIP 1%
    Others 0%
    SNP 0%
    LD 0%
    I think Labour under Jezza will be sub 150 seats (on current 650 seat parliament). Nailed on in second but perhaps more interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be
    On Electoral Calculus: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=44&LAB=22&LIB=11&UKIP=13&Green=4.5&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVUKIP=&TVGreen=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2015

    I get a Con majority of 162 and Lab on 156 seats on:

    Con 44%, Lab 22%, LD 11%, UKIP 13%, Green 4.5 %, Nats 5.5%.

    Not implausible at all under Jezza.

    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    I don't think Labour [ without a break-up ] can win less than 28%.
    I think under Jezza they will. Fancy creating a wager out of it? Bet void if Jezza deposed.
    Ooooh! Yes, Please!

    Not serious money (because I am not allowed to that anymore) but I'll wager a bottle of something decent or, say, fifty quid to your favourite charity (RNLI for me) that at the next GE Labour will secure between 27.5% and 28.5% of the vote, bet void if there is a split in the party.

    What say you, Doc, are you on?
    I was thinking more like an over/under bet on 28% GB vote share for a UK GE Labour share. Void if Jezza is no longer the leader, but I am on the downside!

    A bottle of VSOP Congnac vs a bottle of Single Malt?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,716
    Michael Foster who funded the dump Jez court case looks an, er, interesting chap.

    https://twitter.com/williamsonkev/status/758773255826239492
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,863

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    john_zims said:

    @grabcocque

    'Does anyone actually take the slightest interest in these local by elections in the Parish Council of Arse End-by-the-Sea? (Jez excepted)'

    Mark Senior.

    We don't cover parish councils. Only Corbyn is interested in these when he's desperate for good news.

    Generally I think it is another indicator and we will go on covering.
    The key topics in Parish Council elections tend to be the village hall and the annual fete and the state of public conveniences
    Oddly enough in rural areas it is the Parish council that has charge of producing the development plan for their area. You know, where houses and stuff can be built. So actually quite an important role. In my area a proposal to build houses on some land has just been seen off because it is not in the village plan.

    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.
    That may be an important role yes although most planning decisions are taken at district council level. Parish council elections are also entirely independent as you state
    Quite so Mr. Hyfud but planning consent by the district council will be refused if the area is not one scheduled for development in the local plan, which is formed by the Parish Council.

    So Parish Councils have a leetle more relevance to people's lives than, the village hall, local fete and the public loos, don't they?
    How many parish councils actually have local plans? Takes time and effort doesn't it?
    I should hope all of them, and each and everyone upheld in a local referendum. It was all wrapped up in planning law under the coalition, don't ask me to give chapter and verse now, much too late and I have been thinking deeply about other matters.
    Well I know for a fact plenty don't round my way (though some at least are in the process of preparing them). I've no idea if that experience is regular, but I imagine plenty of parishes lack such plans, and thus even that bit of influence is not in place.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Speedy said:

    justin124 said:

    The night so far in supporting nomination meetings

    Bristol NW: Corbyn
    Swansea West: Corbyn
    Grantham and Stamford : Corbyn
    Brent Central: Corbyn 69 Smith 24
    Romford: Corbyn 18 Smith 10
    Crewe & Nantwich: Corbyn 67 Smith 11
    Bristol East: Corbyn 52 Smith 20
    Colchester: Corbyn
    South Thanet: Corbyn 25 Smith 2 Spoilt 1
    Morecambe and Lunesdale : Corbyn
    Southampton Test : Corbyn
    Chesterfield: Corbyn

    Streatham: Smith
    Altrincham and Sale West: Smith 21 Corbyn 15
    West Ham: Smith 30 Corbyn 27
    Vauxhall: Smith 107 Corbyn 73

    These figures represent a tiny % of the membership of most CLPs. They have no binding force at all and may have little bearing on how members will vote in 4 or 5 weeks time.
    I think so far 80% or more of CLP's have declared their support for Corbyn.

    But it's a safe choice, the BMG poll today had Labour voters past and present backing Corbyn over Smith by large or very large margins (60-75% for Corbyn).

    Since the Members have even larger support for Corbyn than Labour voters, you can see that Corbyn could have an excess of a 2-1 lead over Smith.
    Possibly if members were voting today but I would expect Smith's higher profile to eat into that margin over coming weeks.
    I'm not sure Smith is one of those candidates where knowing more helps. The BBC 999 story made him a laughing stock amongst my lefty mates.
    Well it will be their party which will be a laughing stock if they stick with Corbyn!
    I have no skin in the game, but Smith seems to have completely changed his tune. Used to be Blairite. Now positioning himself as more radical than Corbyn? My bullshit meter needle just wrapped around the end stop.

    Whatever my thoughts about JC, he's never wavered in his views. Smith just seems like an inauthentic chancer.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893

    Smith has so far won 50% of CLP nominations in London

    Less than 10% outside London

    A man who has no appeal outside London according to PLP is Corbyn


    Corbyn has done well to alienate one of the increasingly few areas where Labour were doing well with his non perfomance in the referendum.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,820
    Taken as a whole, three months' or so local election results do give some indication of how the parties are faring, so long as you remember two things :

    1. Lib Dems do better at local than national level.

    2. The Opposition outperforms its national level of support at local level. There is almost always swing back at the subsequent general election.

    If Labour are level-pegging with the Tories locally, now, that implies a big Tory lead In 2020.
  • Some new US Presidential markets on Betfair.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,421
    John_M said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Speedy said:

    justin124 said:

    The night so far in supporting nomination meetings

    Bristol NW: Corbyn
    Swansea West: Corbyn
    Grantham and Stamford : Corbyn
    Brent Central: Corbyn 69 Smith 24
    Romford: Corbyn 18 Smith 10
    Crewe & Nantwich: Corbyn 67 Smith 11
    Bristol East: Corbyn 52 Smith 20
    Colchester: Corbyn
    South Thanet: Corbyn 25 Smith 2 Spoilt 1
    Morecambe and Lunesdale : Corbyn
    Southampton Test : Corbyn
    Chesterfield: Corbyn

    Streatham: Smith
    Altrincham and Sale West: Smith 21 Corbyn 15
    West Ham: Smith 30 Corbyn 27
    Vauxhall: Smith 107 Corbyn 73

    These figures represent a tiny % of the membership of most CLPs. They have no binding force at all and may have little bearing on how members will vote in 4 or 5 weeks time.
    I think so far 80% or more of CLP's have declared their support for Corbyn.

    But it's a safe choice, the BMG poll today had Labour voters past and present backing Corbyn over Smith by large or very large margins (60-75% for Corbyn).

    Since the Members have even larger support for Corbyn than Labour voters, you can see that Corbyn could have an excess of a 2-1 lead over Smith.
    Possibly if members were voting today but I would expect Smith's higher profile to eat into that margin over coming weeks.
    I'm not sure Smith is one of those candidates where knowing more helps. The BBC 999 story made him a laughing stock amongst my lefty mates.
    Well it will be their party which will be a laughing stock if they stick with Corbyn!

    Whatever my thoughts about JC, he's never wavered in his views.
    Is that not the problem?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,936
    Artist said:

    Smith has so far won 50% of CLP nominations in London

    Less than 10% outside London

    A man who has no appeal outside London according to PLP is Corbyn


    Corbyn has done well to alienate one of the increasingly few areas where Labour were doing well with his non perfomance in the referendum.
    Well remember these are the old members only nominating.

    When factored in 2016 members will boost the Corbyn numbers.

    I still think the overall final tally of members votes will be circa 60/40
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,863
    DavidL said:

    John_M said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Speedy said:

    justin124 said:

    The night so far in supporting nomination meetings

    Bristol NW: Corbyn
    Swansea West: Corbyn
    Grantham and Stamford : Corbyn
    Brent Central: Corbyn 69 Smith 24
    Romford: Corbyn 18 Smith 10
    Crewe & Nantwich: Corbyn 67 Smith 11
    Bristol East: Corbyn 52 Smith 20
    Colchester: Corbyn
    South Thanet: Corbyn 25 Smith 2 Spoilt 1
    Morecambe and Lunesdale : Corbyn
    Southampton Test : Corbyn
    Chesterfield: Corbyn

    Streatham: Smith
    Altrincham and Sale West: Smith 21 Corbyn 15
    West Ham: Smith 30 Corbyn 27
    Vauxhall: Smith 107 Corbyn 73

    These figures represent a tiny % of the membership of most CLPs. They have no binding force at all and may have little bearing on how members will vote in 4 or 5 weeks time.
    I think so far 80% or more of CLP's have declared their support for Corbyn.

    But it's a safe choice, the BMG poll today had Labour voters past and present backing Corbyn over Smith by large or very large margins (60-75% for Corbyn).

    Since the Members have even larger support for Corbyn than Labour voters, you can see that Corbyn could have an excess of a 2-1 lead over Smith.
    Possibly if members were voting today but I would expect Smith's higher profile to eat into that margin over coming weeks.
    I'm not sure Smith is one of those candidates where knowing more helps. The BBC 999 story made him a laughing stock amongst my lefty mates.
    Well it will be their party which will be a laughing stock if they stick with Corbyn!

    Whatever my thoughts about JC, he's never wavered in his views.
    Is that not the problem?
    For some. Not for others.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2016

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    1) I care about local election results. I seem to remember this being one of the first hting I searched for when I first discovered the internet back in the mid 90s. So thanks to Harry and others for putting these

    Any other thoughts?
    ore interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.

    The Tories will probably have a small net gain thanks to scotland, I can easily see them beating the SNP in a handful of seats there.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.


    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    Easy, it's a swing of 1 from the last election either way.
    Even if there is no swing at all there's bound to be some small number of seats that change hands.

    My prediction is far more realistic and practical, than May even gaining more than in her political Honeymoon.
    Delusional, but even if true it leaves Labour impotent on the opposition benches for another 5 years.

    Face it. Jezza is a disaster.
    Compared with the alternatives of this year and last year, he is the least bad option.

    Clearly the Labour party doesn't know for decades now what it wants.
    Labour voters don't want to vote for right wing or liberal policies, but Labour MP's think it's necessary to support right wing or liberal policies in order to become ministers.

    It's the struggle of getting that extra 10% of voters to win elections without losing any of your own supporters.
    It's a fine balance, but most Labour MP's clearly don't know how to do it, they have come out as out of touch, power hungry, and empty suits.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    timmo said:

    This is one teason the LDs may not do as well as they have been recently in the Carshalton byelection.
    There have been over 200 lds in the ward today knocking up versus the Tories 40-50.
    Shows they are worried.
    https://insidecroydon.com/2016/07/24/dont-mention-the-arrest-libdems-mislead-by-omission/#more-35065

    Shows they are winning the ground war. Predict a large swing to them.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Some new US Presidential markets on Betfair.

    Yes, the Clinton EV one should be interesting when it gets some liquidity.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Sean_F said:

    Taken as a whole, three months' or so local election results do give some indication of how the parties are faring, so long as you remember two things :

    1. Lib Dems do better at local than national level.

    2. The Opposition outperforms its national level of support at local level. There is almost always swing back at the subsequent general election.

    If Labour are level-pegging with the Tories locally, now, that implies a big Tory lead In 2020.

    Rodcrosby said it implies a ten point Tory lead at next election.

    Don't mess with him and swing back.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    1) I care about local election results. I seem to remember this being one of the first hting I searched for

    Any other thoughts?
    ore interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.

    The Tories will probably have a small net gain thanks to scotland, I can easily see them beating the SNP in a handful of seats there.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.


    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    Easy, it's a swing of 1 from the last election either way.
    Even if there is no swing at all there's bound to be some small number of seats that change hands.

    My prediction is far more realistic and practical, than May even gaining more than in her political Honeymoon.
    Delusional, but even if true it leaves Labour impotent on the opposition benches for another 5 years.

    Face it. Jezza is a disaster.
    Compared with the alternatives of this year and last year, he is the least bad option.

    Clearly the Labour party doesn't know for decades now what it wants.
    Labour voters don't want to vote for right wing or liberal policies, but Labour MP's think it's necessary to support right wing or liberal policies in order to become ministers.

    It's the struggle of getting that extra 10% of voters to win elections without losing any of your own supporters.
    It's a fine balance, but most Labour MP's clearly don't know how to do it, they have come out as out of touch, power hungry, and empty suits.
    Labour have won only 3 General elections in the last 40 years, all under the Centrist New Labour flag. They have lost 6 in the same period under more left wing leaders. Don't say you were not warned!
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Artist said:

    Smith has so far won 50% of CLP nominations in London

    Less than 10% outside London

    A man who has no appeal outside London according to PLP is Corbyn


    Corbyn has done well to alienate one of the increasingly few areas where Labour were doing well with his non perfomance in the referendum.
    Well remember these are the old members only nominating.

    When factored in 2016 members will boost the Corbyn numbers.

    I still think the overall final tally of members votes will be circa 60/40
    Here is the map, I would like to see the comparison from 2015:

    https://twitter.com/CLPNominations/status/758600070564577280
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    1) I care about local election results. I seem to remember this being one of the first hting I searched for

    Any other thoughts?
    ore interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.


    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.

    My prediction is far more realistic and practical, than May even gaining more than in her political Honeymoon.
    Delusional, but even if true it leaves Labour impotent on the opposition benches for another 5 years.

    Face it. Jezza is a disaster.
    Compared with the alternatives of this year and last year, he is the least bad option.

    Clearly the Labour party doesn't know for decades now what it wants.
    Labour voters don't want to vote for right wing or liberal policies, but Labour MP's think it's necessary to support right wing or liberal policies in order to become ministers.

    It's the struggle of getting that extra 10% of voters to win elections without losing any of your own supporters.
    It's a fine balance, but most Labour MP's clearly don't know how to do it, they have come out as out of touch, power hungry, and empty suits.
    Labour have won only 3 General elections in the last 40 years, all under the Centrist New Labour flag. They have lost 6 in the same period under more left wing leaders. Don't say you were not warned!
    As I've said before, sensible parties have to get lucky every time. Corbynculties only have to get lucky once. If Momentum take over the Labour party, eventually they will be elected.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    I was thinking more like an over/under bet on 28% GB vote share for a UK GE Labour share. Void if Jezza is no longer the leader, but I am on the downside!

    A bottle of VSOP Congnac vs a bottle of Single Malt?

    Ah, Doc, you cut me to the quick because I think Labour will achieve about 28% (assuming no split and Corbyn remains in place) but no more. So asking me to bet on them getting more than that is to pin me down to maybe 0.5%.

    With regret I must decline your very kind offer.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Tories third in Scotland behind none of them:
    Scottish voters // On who to trust to make decisions about Trident: SNP: 26% CON: 21% LAB: 5% LDEM: 3% UKIP: 1% None of them: 22% (YouGov)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,814
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    1) I care about local election results. I seem to remember this being one of the first hting I searched for when I first discovered the internet back in the mid 90s. So thanks to Harry and others for putting these

    Any other thoughts?
    ore interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.

    The Tories will probably have a small net gain thanks to scotland, I can easily see them beating the SNP in a handful of seats there.

    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.


    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    Easy, it's a swing of 1 from the last election either way.
    Even if there is no .
    Delusional, but even if true it leaves Labour impotent on the opposition benches for another 5 years.

    Face it. Jezza is a disaster.
    Compared with the alternatives of this year and last year, he is the least bad option.

    Clearly the Labour party doesn't know for decades now what it wants.
    Labour voters don't want to vote for right wing or liberal policies, but Labour MP's think it's necessary to support right wing or liberal policies in order to become ministers.

    It's the struggle of getting that extra 10% of voters to win elections without losing any of your own supporters.
    It's a fine balance, but most Labour MP's clearly don't know how to do it, they have come out as out of touch, power hungry, and empty suits.
    Tories, LDs and UKIP voters all preferred Smith in a BMG poll today, Greens, SNP, Plaid...and Labour voters preferred Corbyn, says it all.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,475
    nunu said:

    Tories third in Scotland behind none of them:
    Scottish voters // On who to trust to make decisions about Trident: SNP: 26% CON: 21% LAB: 5% LDEM: 3% UKIP: 1% None of them: 22% (YouGov)

    Margin of error, please!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,814

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    john_zims said:

    @grabcocque

    'Does anyone actually take the slightest interest in these local by elections in the Parish Council of Arse End-by-the-Sea? (Jez excepted)'

    Mark Senior.

    We don't cover parish councils. Only Corbyn is interested in these when he's desperate for good news.

    Generally I think it is another indicator and we will go on covering.
    The key topics in Parish Council elections tend to be the village hall and the annual fete and the state of public conveniences
    Oddly enough in rural areas it is the Parish council that has charge of producing the development plan for their area. You know, where houses and stuff can be built. So actually quite an important role. In my area a proposal to build houses on some land has just been seen off because it is not in the village plan.

    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.
    That may be an important role yes although most planning decisions are taken at district council level. Parish council elections are also entirely independent as you state
    Quite so Mr. Hyfud but planning consent by the district council will be refused if the area is not one scheduled for development in the local plan, which is formed by the Parish Council.

    So Parish Councils have a leetle more relevance to people's lives than, the village hall, local fete and the public loos, don't they?
    Unless you have a specific development affecting your area of the village not really and even then the District Council has the final say. For most villagers the work the Parish Council does on the village hall, the fete and the public loos is actually more relevant
    Having a parish plan is a fairly effective way of controlling development. It is not Nimbyism if specific sites are designated for development both commercial and residential. It carries quite a lot of weight with the District Council.
    For specific sites yes
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    I'm a bit disappointed that the tories have not moved the Queens Speech back to November 5th or thereabouts yet.

    Or made the Supreme Court part of the House of Lords again.

    Law Lords was a great name!
    That was never their real name, so we can still call them that, they do still get called Lord or Lady.
    I thought they were Lords Legal - sorting alongside the Lords Spiritual and the Lords Temporal.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2016

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    1) I care about local election results. I seem to remember this being one of the first hting I searched for

    Any other thoughts?
    ore interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.



    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    Easy, it's a swing of 1 from the last election either way.
    Even if there is no swing at all there's bound to be some small number of seats that change hands.

    My prediction is far more realistic and practical, than May even gaining more than in her political Honeymoon.
    Delusional, but even if true it leaves Labour impotent on the opposition benches for another 5 years.

    Face it. Jezza is a disaster.
    Compared with the alternatives of this year and last year, he is the least bad option.

    Clearly the Labour party doesn't know for decades now what it wants.
    Labour voters don't want to vote for right wing or liberal policies, but Labour MP's think it's necessary to support right wing or liberal policies in order to become ministers.

    It's the struggle of getting that extra 10% of voters to win elections without losing any of your own supporters.
    It's a fine balance, but most Labour MP's clearly don't know how to do it, they have come out as out of touch, power hungry, and empty suits.
    Labour have won only 3 General elections in the last 40 years, all under the Centrist New Labour flag. They have lost 6 in the same period under more left wing leaders. Don't say you were not warned!
    The country paid dearly for the New Labour years, and the Labour party is still struggling from the ruins of it's legacy.

    No one wants a repeat of Blair and Brown apart from you, John Rentoul, and Dan Hodges it seems.
    Or do you really think that the mess of devolution, wars and financial crisis are the right way of doing things ?

    People do not want to repeat the recent past that left them with bitter memories.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,814
    John_M said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Speedy said:

    justin124 said:

    The night so far in supporting nomination meetings

    Bristol NW: Corbyn
    Swansea West: Corbyn
    Grantham and Stamford : Corbyn
    Brent Central: Corbyn 69 Smith 24
    Romford: Corbyn 18 Smith 10
    Crewe & Nantwich: Corbyn 67 Smith 11
    Bristol East: Corbyn 52 Smith 20
    Colchester: Corbyn
    South Thanet: Corbyn 25 Smith 2 Spoilt 1
    Morecambe and Lunesdale : Corbyn
    Southampton Test : Corbyn
    Chesterfield: Corbyn

    Streatham: Smith
    Altrincham and Sale West: Smith 21 Corbyn 15
    West Ham: Smith 30 Corbyn 27
    Vauxhall: Smith 107 Corbyn 73

    These figures represent a tiny % of the membership of most CLPs. They have no binding force at all and may have little bearing on how members will vote in 4 or 5 weeks time.
    I think so far 80% or more of CLP's have declared their support for Corbyn.

    But it's a safe choice, the BMG poll today had Labour voters past and present backing Corbyn over Smith by large or very large margins (60-75% for Corbyn).

    Since the Members have even larger support for Corbyn than Labour voters, you can see that Corbyn could have an excess of a 2-1 lead over Smith.
    Possibly if members were voting today but I would expect Smith's higher profile to eat into that margin over coming weeks.
    I'm not sure Smith is one of those candidates where knowing more helps. The BBC 999 story made him a laughing stock amongst my lefty mates.
    Well it will be their party which will be a laughing stock if they stick with Corbyn!
    I have no skin in the game, but Smith seems to have completely changed his tune. Used to be Blairite. Now positioning himself as more radical than Corbyn? My bullshit meter needle just wrapped around the end stop.

    Whatever my thoughts about JC, he's never wavered in his views. Smith just seems like an inauthentic chancer.
    Chancers tend to win most elections, Blair, Cameron, Clinton, Obama etc. Politicians who have had the same views since they were 7, like Corbyn, tend to do rather less well
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,936
    Éoin ‏@LabourEoin 2m2 minutes ago
    Last year, just 39% of CLPs nominated Jeremy Corbyn.
    This year, 82% of CLPs have so far nominated Jeremy Corbyn
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,936
    So far, fifty-nine constituencies have made supporting nominations. Eleven for Smith and forty-eight for Corbyn.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Éoin ‏@LabourEoin 2m2 minutes ago
    Last year, just 39% of CLPs nominated Jeremy Corbyn.
    This year, 82% of CLPs have so far nominated Jeremy Corbyn

    And for PLPs?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    HYUFD said:

    john_zims said:

    @grabcocque

    'Does anyone actually take the slightest interest in these local by elections in the Parish Council of Arse End-by-the-Sea? (Jez excepted)'

    Mark Senior.

    We don't cover parish councils. Only Corbyn is interested in these when he's desperate for good news.

    Generally I think it is another indicator and we will go on covering.
    The key topics in Parish Council elections tend to be the village hall and the annual fete and the state of public conveniences
    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.
    Reminds me of the famous quote about the Corporation of London - "it's strictly non-political - they all vote Conservative"
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,936
    Amazing news that 19 Constituency Labour Parties have nominated @jeremycorbyn this evening, bringing the total up to 46! #SuperThursday
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,936
    2 more

    Amazing news that 21 Constituency Labour Parties have nominated @jeremycorbyn this evening, bringing the total up to 48! #SuperThursday
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,555
    edited July 2016
    New delay for Hinkley Point http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36903904

    It would appear that Theresa wants to dot the i's and cross the T's.

    Mind you it is a big expensive decision so worthwhile the PM spending time understanding it and the resulting issues.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,475
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    I'm a bit disappointed that the tories have not moved the Queens Speech back to November 5th or thereabouts yet.

    Or made the Supreme Court part of the House of Lords again.

    Law Lords was a great name!
    That was never their real name, so we can still call them that, they do still get called Lord or Lady.
    I thought they were Lords Legal - sorting alongside the Lords Spiritual and the Lords Temporal.
    According to wiki, they were classed as Lords Temporal.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,936
    Hard to keep up

    Its now

    Jeremy Corbyn for PM ‏@JeremyCorbyn4PM 58s59 seconds ago
    #superthursday results so far 49 CLPs nominate @jeremycorbyn 11 nominate Owen Smit
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    1) I care about local election results. I seem to remember this being one of the first hting I searched for

    Any other thoughts?
    ore interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.



    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    Easy, it's a swing of 1 from the last election either way.
    Even if there is no swing at all there's bound to be some small number of seats that change hands.

    My prediction is far more realistic and practical, than May even gaining more than in her political Honeymoon.
    Delusional, but even if true it leaves Labour impotent on the opposition benches for another 5 years.

    Face it. Jezza is a disaster.
    Compared with the alternatives of this year and last year, he is the least bad option.

    Clearly the Labour party doesn't
    Labour have won only 3 General elections in the last 40 years, all under the Centrist New Labour flag. They have lost 6 in the same period under more left wing leaders. Don't say you were not warned!
    The country paid dearly for the New Labour years, and the Labour party is still struggling from the ruins of it's legacy.

    No one wants a repeat of Blair and Brown apart from you, John Rentoul, and Dan Hodges it seems.
    Or do you really think that the mess of devolution, wars and financial crisis are the right way of doing things ?

    People do not want to repeat the recent past that left them with bitter memories.
    There was a lot wrong with New Labour, which is why I left the party in 2003. I do not want a repeat of Blair and Brown.

    Nonetheless Jezza is going to be a disaster for Labour at the 2020 GE.

  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.

    If candidates at the parish level want to have party political labels, Mr Llama, they can have them. Most prefer not to do so. There is no law against it. Some parish/town councils are highly political.

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    ?
    ore interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.


    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.


    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    Easy, it's a swing of 1 from the last election either way.
    Even if there is no .
    Delusional, but even if true it leaves Labour impotent on the opposition benches for another 5 years.

    Face it. Jezza is a disaster.
    Compared with the alternatives of this year and last year, he is the least bad option.

    Clearly the Labour party doesn't know for decades now what it wants.
    Labour voters don't want to vote for right wing or liberal policies, but Labour MP's think it's necessary to support right wing or liberal policies in order to become ministers.

    It's the struggle of getting that extra 10% of voters to win elections without losing any of your own supporters.
    It's a fine balance, but most Labour MP's clearly don't know how to do it, they have come out as out of touch, power hungry, and empty suits.
    Tories, LDs and UKIP voters all preferred Smith in a BMG poll today, Greens, SNP, Plaid...and Labour voters preferred Corbyn, says it all.
    See?
    Smith has failed to carry his own party voters to support him, and I'm sure that most voters on the right and centre would still prefer May over Smith anyway.

    Thus Smith would carry the loyal support of not a single voter group.
    Falling between the gap while trying to ride two boats.

    Like a classic european socialist and social-democratic party that fails to retain voter loyalty during it's pursuit of power, Owen Smith is the british version of Hollande.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    kle4 said:



    Well I know for a fact plenty don't round my way (though some at least are in the process of preparing them). I've no idea if that experience is regular, but I imagine plenty of parishes lack such plans, and thus even that bit of influence is not in place.

    Then the Parish Councilors are fools, stupid and not acting in their area's best interests.

    With a plan a village can fend off developers, without one they are sheep before wolves. This is not new stuff it has been going on for years. We had our referendum on the village plan about two years ago and that was after a lengthy period of consultation.

    HMG, under the toad Cameron, gave us this one little bit of localism. If your Parish Council aren't taking advantage of it then you deserve to be raped by the developers

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,936
    The story emerging from this election is the sheer arrogance & delusion of the Labour Plotting MPs. Utterly disconnected from our grassroots
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    New delay for Hinkley Point http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36903904

    It would appear that Theresa wants to dot the i's and cross the T's.

    Mind you it is a big expensive decision so worthwhile the PM spending time understanding it and the resulting issues.

    Sounds like the micro-management that she loves.

    Reminiscent of Gordon Brown.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    The story emerging from this election is the sheer arrogance & delusion of the Labour Plotting MPs. Utterly disconnected from our grassroots

    Yet much better connected to the voters!
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    john_zims said:

    @grabcocque

    'Does anyone actually take the slightest interest in these local by elections in the Parish Council of Arse End-by-the-Sea? (Jez excepted)'

    Mark Senior.

    We don't cover parish councils. Only Corbyn is interested in these when he's desperate for good news.

    Generally I think it is another indicator and we will go on covering.
    The key topics in Parish Council elections tend to be the village hall and the annual fete and the state of public conveniences
    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.
    Reminds me of the famous quote about the Corporation of London - "it's strictly non-political - they all vote Conservative"
    I think that was a Michael Flanders line.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,863
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,936

    The story emerging from this election is the sheer arrogance & delusion of the Labour Plotting MPs. Utterly disconnected from our grassroots

    Yet much better connected to the voters!
    Which ones.

    Those that will not vote Labour anyway?

    You for example
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    I'm a bit disappointed that the tories have not moved the Queens Speech back to November 5th or thereabouts yet.

    Or made the Supreme Court part of the House of Lords again.

    Law Lords was a great name!
    That was never their real name, so we can still call them that, they do still get called Lord or Lady.
    I thought they were Lords Legal - sorting alongside the Lords Spiritual and the Lords Temporal.
    Talking of Lords Spiritual, Mr. Charles, any word on the new +London?
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    New delay for Hinkley Point http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36903904

    It would appear that Theresa wants to dot the i's and cross the T's.

    Mind you it is a big expensive decision so worthwhile the PM spending time understanding it and the resulting issues.

    Sounds like the micro-management that she loves.

    Reminiscent of Gordon Brown.
    Hopefully big fines will be put in place for delays and cost overruns.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,936
    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 56s57 seconds ago
    Liberal Democrat HOLD St Julians (Newport).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    I'm a bit disappointed that the tories have not moved the Queens Speech back to November 5th or thereabouts yet.

    Or made the Supreme Court part of the House of Lords again.

    Law Lords was a great name!
    That was never their real name, so we can still call them that, they do still get called Lord or Lady.
    I thought they were Lords Legal - sorting alongside the Lords Spiritual and the Lords Temporal.
    According to wiki, they were classed as Lords Temporal.
    You mean we do have Time Lords...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,863

    kle4 said:



    Well I know for a fact plenty don't round my way (though some at least are in the process of preparing them). I've no idea if that experience is regular, but I imagine plenty of parishes lack such plans, and thus even that bit of influence is not in place.

    Then the Parish Councilors are fools, stupid and not acting in their area's best interests.

    With a plan a village can fend off developers, without one they are sheep before wolves. This is not new stuff it has been going on for years. We had our referendum on the village plan about two years ago and that was after a lengthy period of consultation.

    HMG, under the toad Cameron, gave us this one little bit of localism. If your Parish Council aren't taking advantage of it then you deserve to be raped by the developers

    Oh its not mine, its loads of the parishes, that's why I think it is probably fairly common.
    PClipp said:

    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.

    If candidates at the parish level want to have party political labels, Mr Llama, they can have them. Most prefer not to do so. There is no law against it. Some parish/town councils are highly political.

    Quite so. I cannot say I come across political candidates much in parish councils, but it many of the town (and the one city) councils, which are status wise just larger parish councils, it is common.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited July 2016
    Lib Dems hold Newport St Julians with very big majority
    LD 948
    Lab 432
    UKIP 158
    Con 135
    Plaid 71
    Green 25
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    New delay for Hinkley Point http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36903904

    It would appear that Theresa wants to dot the i's and cross the T's.

    Mind you it is a big expensive decision so worthwhile the PM spending time understanding it and the resulting issues.

    It's massively expensive, it will take a very long time to be built, the government will foot the bill, and it's dangerous.

    Surely there are cheaper, faster, less dangerous ways to produce energy and without the government paying the bill.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,936
    St Julians (Newport) result:
    LDEM: 53.7% (+11.6)
    LAB: 24.4% (-20.3)
    UKIP: 8.8% (+8.8)
    CON: 7.6% (-5.5)
    PC: 4.0% (+4.0)
    GRN: 1.4% (+1.4)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    john_zims said:

    @grabcocque

    'Does anyone actually take the slightest interest in these local by elections in the Parish Council of Arse End-by-the-Sea? (Jez excepted)'

    Mark Senior.

    We don't cover parish councils. Only Corbyn is interested in these when he's desperate for good news.

    Generally I think it is another indicator and we will go on covering.
    The key topics in Parish Council elections tend to be the village hall and the annual fete and the state of public conveniences
    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.
    Reminds me of the famous quote about the Corporation of London - "it's strictly non-political - they all vote Conservative"
    I think that was a Michael Flanders line.
    His lines were better than Donald Swann's...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Which ones.

    Those that will not vote Labour anyway?

    You for example

    The ones who voted Labour under Blair, and Brown, and Miliband, who will not vote for Corbyn
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,863
    edited July 2016
    Speedy said:

    New delay for Hinkley Point http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36903904

    It would appear that Theresa wants to dot the i's and cross the T's.

    Mind you it is a big expensive decision so worthwhile the PM spending time understanding it and the resulting issues.

    It's massively expensive, it will take a very long time to be built, the government will foot the bill, and it's dangerous.

    Surely there are cheaper, faster, less dangerous ways to produce energy and without the government paying the bill.
    You forgot to mention it will inevitably cost a lot more than they are currently saying it will, even with its current expense, which no doubt will blow back on us.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    I'm a bit disappointed that the tories have not moved the Queens Speech back to November 5th or thereabouts yet.

    Or made the Supreme Court part of the House of Lords again.

    Law Lords was a great name!
    That was never their real name, so we can still call them that, they do still get called Lord or Lady.
    I thought they were Lords Legal - sorting alongside the Lords Spiritual and the Lords Temporal.
    Talking of Lords Spiritual, Mr. Charles, any word on the new +London?
    I'm sitting by a pool in California...

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    PClipp said:

    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.

    If candidates at the parish level want to have party political labels, Mr Llama, they can have them. Most prefer not to do so. There is no law against it. Some parish/town councils are highly political.

    I didn't know that it was a candidate choice, Mr Clipp. Thanks for that. None of the candidates around here have ever chosen to put their party affiliation next to their names in the elections here in the last twenty-odd years. I wonder why
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,814
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    The polling co's do not support this revival by the bearded sandal brigade
    No, but they have to start somewhere and grassroot politics is as good a place as any. There is a massive vacancy for the Opposition to the Tories at the moment. Favourite to fill it are SDP2 or UKIP but the Lib Dems should have a pot.
    ?
    ore interesting is the possibility of the Tory majoritybeing bigger than the PLP.
    232-+10 seats.

    Labour will lose some seats in rural areas, but gain a few in urban ones.
    The wild card will be that local unpopularity of some Labour MP's may exceed party loyalty.


    The LD will probably lose their only seat in scotland (along with Labour), and possibly lose Sheffield Hallam and Southport, but may gain a seat in Cornwall.


    Have a play and see what is needed for Lab 10 seat gains.
    Easy, it's a swing of 1 from the last election either way.
    Even if there is no .
    Delusional, but even if true it leaves Labour impotent on the opposition benches for another 5 years.

    Face it. Jezza is a disaster.
    Compared with the alternatives of this year and last year, he is the least bad option.
    .

    It's the struggle of getting that extra 10.
    Tories, LDs and UKIP voters all preferre.
    See?
    Smith has failed to carry his own party voters to support him, and I'm sure that most voters on the right and centre would still prefer May over Smith anyway.

    Thus Smith would carry the loyal support of not a single voter group.
    Falling between the gap while trying to ride two boats.

    Like a classic european socialist and social-democratic party that fails to retain voter loyalty during it's pursuit of power, Owen Smith is the british version of Hollande.
    Smith has failed to carry his own party supporters with him as the only party supporters still left voting for Corbyn Labour are those who would also have voted for Michael Foot. The rest have defected to the Tories, UKIP or the LDs. Smith at least offers a chance to win a few of them back, Corbyn just offers a May landslide. Hollande may I remind you also won a general election in 2012, something Corbyn will almost certainly never get close to doing
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016
    Speedy said:

    New delay for Hinkley Point http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36903904

    It would appear that Theresa wants to dot the i's and cross the T's.

    Mind you it is a big expensive decision so worthwhile the PM spending time understanding it and the resulting issues.

    It's massively expensive, it will take a very long time to be built, the government will foot the bill, and it's dangerous.

    Surely there are cheaper, faster, less dangerous ways to produce energy and without the government paying the bill.
    I noted my own MP comparing Hinkley unit prices with renewable energy. Makes you despair really. I have a lot of respect for Robert, so when he advocated CCGTs I checked it out. There's no contest, we would do far better with CCGT with lower capital and running costs.

    Complication is that the French want us to build Hinkley. Hollande offered May time to review, but it's a political, not a business decision. Pure business logic would say cancel it tomorrow.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    john_zims said:

    @grabcocque

    'Does anyone actually take the slightest interest in these local by elections in the Parish Council of Arse End-by-the-Sea? (Jez excepted)'

    Mark Senior.

    We don't cover parish councils. Only Corbyn is interested in these when he's desperate for good news.

    Generally I think it is another indicator and we will go on covering.
    The key topics in Parish Council elections tend to be the village hall and the annual fete and the state of public conveniences
    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.
    Reminds me of the famous quote about the Corporation of London - "it's strictly non-political - they all vote Conservative"
    I think that was a Michael Flanders line.
    His lines were better than Donald Swann's...
    I could quote F&S all night...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    New delay for Hinkley Point http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36903904

    It would appear that Theresa wants to dot the i's and cross the T's.

    Mind you it is a big expensive decision so worthwhile the PM spending time understanding it and the resulting issues.

    Sounds like the micro-management that she loves.

    Reminiscent of Gordon Brown.
    Don't forget she also has a new Chancellor etc who perhaps should also take a look if they're going to sign it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,835
    edited July 2016
    HYUFD said:

    John_M said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Speedy said:

    justin124 said:

    The night so far in supporting nomination meetings

    Bristol NW: Corbyn
    Swansea West: Corbyn
    Grantham and Stamford : Corbyn
    Brent Central: Corbyn 69 Smith 24
    Romford: Corbyn 18 Smith 10
    Crewe & Nantwich: Corbyn 67 Smith 11
    Bristol East: Corbyn 52 Smith 20
    Colchester: Corbyn
    South Thanet: Corbyn 25 Smith 2 Spoilt 1
    Morecambe and Lunesdale : Corbyn
    Southampton Test : Corbyn
    Chesterfield: Corbyn

    Streatham: Smith
    Altrincham and Sale West: Smith 21 Corbyn 15
    West Ham: Smith 30 Corbyn 27
    Vauxhall: Smith 107 Corbyn 73

    These figures represent a tiny % of the membership of most CLPs. They have no binding force at all and may have little bearing on how members will vote in 4 or 5 weeks time.
    I think so far 80% or more of CLP's have declared their support for Corbyn.

    But it's a safe choice, the BMG poll today had Labour voters past and present backing Corbyn over Smith by large or very large margins (60-75% for Corbyn).

    Since the Members have even larger support for Corbyn than Labour voters, you can see that Corbyn could have an excess of a 2-1 lead over Smith.
    Possibly if members were voting today but I would expect Smith's higher profile to eat into that margin over coming weeks.
    I'm not sure Smith is one of those candidates where knowing more helps. The BBC 999 story made him a laughing stock amongst my lefty mates.
    Well it will be their party which will be a laughing stock if they stick with Corbyn!
    I have no skin in the game, but Smith seems to have completely changed his tune. Used to be Blairite. Now positioning himself as more radical than Corbyn? My bullshit meter needle just wrapped around the end stop.

    Whatever my thoughts about JC, he's never wavered in his views. Smith just seems like an inauthentic chancer.
    Chancers tend to win most elections, Blair, Cameron, Clinton, Obama etc. Politicians who have had the same views since they were 7, like Corbyn, tend to do rather less well
    Chancers who tack towards and appeal to the centre do. Not those who try to out-radical their competitors or opponents.

    There is an analogy with Momentum and the Kippers. Sort of. Both are playing the long game to reap rewards in the longer term. Of the two and atm, for better or worse, the Kippers are more in tune with current thinking.

    Plus of course they just won the most important political victory in a generation.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    HYUFD said:

    Smith has failed to carry his own party supporters with him as the only party supporters still left voting for Corbyn Labour are those who would also have voted for Michael Foot. The rest have defected to the Tories, UKIP or the LDs. Smith at least offers a chance to win a few of them back, Corbyn just offers a May landslide. Hollande may I remind you also won a general election in 2012, something Corbyn will almost certainly never get close to doing

    Any thoughts on today's court judgement?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,046

    St Julians (Newport) result:
    LDEM: 53.7% (+11.6)
    LAB: 24.4% (-20.3)
    UKIP: 8.8% (+8.8)
    CON: 7.6% (-5.5)
    PC: 4.0% (+4.0)
    GRN: 1.4% (+1.4)

    So while handfuls of activists up and down the country are nominating Corbyn for leader in the CLPs, in the real world Labour voters are leaving in droves.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,863

    PClipp said:

    Additionally the Parish Council ballot sheet does not mention political parties, just the names and addresses of the candidates.

    If candidates at the parish level want to have party political labels, Mr Llama, they can have them. Most prefer not to do so. There is no law against it. Some parish/town councils are highly political.

    I didn't know that it was a candidate choice, Mr Clipp. Thanks for that. None of the candidates around here have ever chosen to put their party affiliation next to their names in the elections here in the last twenty-odd years. I wonder why
    Are you in a parish parish or a town parish? I cannot see the bother with either, tbh, but towns seem to like to play the game more.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    edited July 2016
    Lib Dems hold Newport St Julians with a vastly increased majority.

    Lib Dem 948
    Labour 432
    UKIP 156
    Tory 135
    Plaid Cymru 71
    Green 25

    Apparently the other two seats in the ward are held by Labour.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,306

    St Julians (Newport) result:
    LDEM: 53.7% (+11.6)
    LAB: 24.4% (-20.3)
    UKIP: 8.8% (+8.8)
    CON: 7.6% (-5.5)
    PC: 4.0% (+4.0)
    GRN: 1.4% (+1.4)

    Broken sleazy Labour on the slide?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,863
    OllyT said:

    St Julians (Newport) result:
    LDEM: 53.7% (+11.6)
    LAB: 24.4% (-20.3)
    UKIP: 8.8% (+8.8)
    CON: 7.6% (-5.5)
    PC: 4.0% (+4.0)
    GRN: 1.4% (+1.4)

    So while handfuls of activists up and down the country are nominating Corbyn for leader in the CLPs, in the real world Labour voters are leaving in droves.
    I'd have to go back and check, but I'm sure they've won some of these weekly by-elections just fine. I think Labour are in a bad way, but it's not universally so I think.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,446
    PClipp said:

    Lib Dems hold Newport St Julians with a vastly increased majority.

    Lib Dems seem to be doing extremely well in all the real elections since Brexit.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,835
    PClipp said:

    Lib Dems hold Newport St Julians with a vastly increased majority.

    Lib Dem 948
    Labour 432
    UKIP 156
    Tory 135
    Plaid Cymru 71
    Green 25

    Apparently the other two seats in the ward are held by Labour.

    As has been noted, LDs are or used to be very effective locally. Nasty, too, but effective. Quite what else they are good for goodness only knows.

This discussion has been closed.