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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If Hillary Clinton does win in November then Michelle Obama

SystemSystem Posts: 12,365
edited July 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If Hillary Clinton does win in November then Michelle Obama’s convention speech will be seen as being crucial

By all accounts the opening hours of the first day at the Democratic Convention had not been good for the Clinton campaign. The leaked emails and the irreconcilable Bernie supporters have made what should have been a showcase into something of a nightmare. There were persistent chants of “lock her up” whenever Clinton’s name was mentioned.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,287
    Glorious first!
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,192
    I just caught some clips of Michelle Obama's speech. She should seriously contemplate public office, I think she's possibly even a better speaker than her husband.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    ToryJim said:

    I just caught some clips of Michelle Obama's speech. She should seriously contemplate public office, I think she's possibly even a better speaker than her husband.

    Being a good speaker does not in itself make you perfect for public office. In fact on its own it is incredibly dangerous.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Surprise - CNN is still biased.....

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/25/cnn-abruptly-ends-coverage-of-dnc-protests-to-cove/
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    You won't believe this - Debbie Wasserman Schultz was fired as DNC chairman for her shamelessly pro-Clinton bias.

    She was hired Monday by Hillary Clinton as honorary chair of her 50 state campaign.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-immediately-joins-hillary/
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    Glorious first!

    Shit - am I Ath again? ;)
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Michele Obama in carpool karoake.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln3wAdRAim4
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Tim_B said:

    You won't believe this - Debbie Wasserman Schultz was fired as DNC chairman for her shamelessly pro-Clinton bias.

    She was hired Monday by Hillary Clinton as honorary chair of her 50 state campaign.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-immediately-joins-hillary/

    Surely a shameless pro-Clinton bias would be an asset in her new position.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Tim_B said:

    You won't believe this - Debbie Wasserman Schultz was fired as DNC chairman for her shamelessly pro-Clinton bias.

    She was hired Monday by Hillary Clinton as honorary chair of her 50 state campaign.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-immediately-joins-hillary/

    Surely a shameless pro-Clinton bias would be an asset in her new position.
    It just emphasizes that Hillary reflects the establishment, status quo, is dishonest and not trustworthy.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,192
    timmo said:

    ToryJim said:

    I just caught some clips of Michelle Obama's speech. She should seriously contemplate public office, I think she's possibly even a better speaker than her husband.

    Being a good speaker does not in itself make you perfect for public office. In fact on its own it is incredibly dangerous.
    No but it surely helps!
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Tim_B said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Tim_B said:

    You won't believe this - Debbie Wasserman Schultz was fired as DNC chairman for her shamelessly pro-Clinton bias.

    She was hired Monday by Hillary Clinton as honorary chair of her 50 state campaign.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-immediately-joins-hillary/

    Surely a shameless pro-Clinton bias would be an asset in her new position.
    It just emphasizes that Hillary reflects the establishment, status quo, is dishonest and not trustworthy.
    It emphasises the first two, certainly, but were they ever in doubt?
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    President Duterte gave his first "State of the Nation Address" yesterday, some people might be surprised at how moderate and yet ambitious he sounded. I would say he is still gaining supporters here even after a landslide victory.

    http://www.philstar.com/news-feature/2016/07/26/1606743/things-duterte-said-his-first-sona-z
    I will not waste precious time dwelling on the sins of the past or blaming those who are perceived to be responsible for the mess that we are in and suffering from except maybe extract a lesson or two from its errors. We will not tarry because it is the present that we are concerned with and the future that we are concerned for
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,280
    "The spouse of the person who was her husbands main opponenet”? Surely her husband’s main opponent; and it reflects credit on the Obama’s thast they recognise the ability of that opponent.

    Alternatively, as ToryJim half suggests upthread, is this the first shot in "Michelle for President" in 2024? She’ll only be 60 then!
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    timmo said:

    ToryJim said:

    I just caught some clips of Michelle Obama's speech. She should seriously contemplate public office, I think she's possibly even a better speaker than her husband.

    Being a good speaker does not in itself make you perfect for public office. In fact on its own it is incredibly dangerous.
    C.f. A. Blair.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Tim_B said:

    You won't believe this - Debbie Wasserman Schultz was fired as DNC chairman for her shamelessly pro-Clinton bias.

    She was hired Monday by Hillary Clinton as honorary chair of her 50 state campaign.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-immediately-joins-hillary/

    Surely a shameless pro-Clinton bias would be an asset in her new position.
    Maybe so, but It looks bad, Wasserman Schultz was sacked for her total failure to act in an unbiased, professional manner. Clinton’s decision to hire such a flawed character does not bode well for any future appointments to her administration and will further damage an already tarnished name.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,051
    "Then Michelle Obama took the stage and made a powerful heartfelt case for the spouse of the person who was her husband’s main opponent in 2008"

    Wouldn't that be making the case for Bill Clinton?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    I missed Bernie's speech - what time did he eventually go on stage? I stayed with the livestream until the small hours and what a strange spectacular at times it was.

    Inviting illegal immigrants on stage was probably the oddest moment for me.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,111
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Tim_B said:

    You won't believe this - Debbie Wasserman Schultz was fired as DNC chairman for her shamelessly pro-Clinton bias.

    She was hired Monday by Hillary Clinton as honorary chair of her 50 state campaign.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-immediately-joins-hillary/

    Surely a shameless pro-Clinton bias would be an asset in her new position.
    Depends on whether she's aiming to win over the Bernie-backers.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited July 2016
    He's on the hunt for Bernie votes...

    Real Donald Trump
    Bernie Sanders totally sold out to Crooked Hillary Clinton. All of that work, energy and money, and nothing to show for it! Waste of time.

    Sad to watch Bernie Sanders abandon his revolution. We welcome all voters who want to fix our rigged system and bring back our jobs.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,111
    Casino_Royale said:

    "Then Michelle Obama took the stage and made a powerful heartfelt case for the spouse of the person who was her husband’s main opponent in 2008"

    Wouldn't that be making the case for Bill Clinton?

    Or Cindy McCain?
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    When will the general public wake up and see how nasty these people are?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/john-mcdonnell-caught-in-second-thatcher-assassination-row-as-ol/

    Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Tory MP for North East Somerset, said: "The hard left may espouse political correctness but its view that the end justifies the means has always given it a potentially violent edge. The problem with John McDonnell's humour is that he may, just, believe it."

    It's been mentioned on here before as the rationale for the hard left's behaviour but it still doesn't excuse it.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,005
    Tim_B said:

    Surprise - CNN is still biased.....

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/25/cnn-abruptly-ends-coverage-of-dnc-protests-to-cove/

    Whereas the Washington Post ("The political leanings of The Washington Times are often described as conservative", from Wikipedia) which was founded by associates of the Unification Church led by Sun Myung Moon, is straight middle of the road reporting?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,005
    logical_song said:

    Tim_B said:

    Surprise - CNN is still biased.....

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/25/cnn-abruptly-ends-coverage-of-dnc-protests-to-cove/

    Whereas the Washington Post ("The political leanings of The Washington Times are often described as conservative", from Wikipedia) which was founded by associates of the Unification Church led by Sun Myung Moon, is straight middle of the road reporting?
    Oops should read Washington Times not Post.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Has Bernie wrangled his supporters back under control? They certainly seemed to have recovered some of their composure by the time he came on stage. I gather his whips were out and about all over the convention floor talking to unhappy delegates earlier in the evening.

    I can't get a feel for what happened by watching Sky or CNN - they're in lurve with Mrs Obama and skipping over the tricky stuff as quickly as possible.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    PlatoSaid said:

    Has Bernie wrangled his supporters back under control?

    https://twitter.com/AP_Politics/status/757719646833373188

  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Indigo said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Has Bernie wrangled his supporters back under control?

    ttps://twitter.com/AP_Politics/status/757719646833373188

    It was certainly very strange earlier in the evening when his fans were booing every mention of Hillary's name - at one point it was deafening, with Bernites out heckling the Hillites in a wall of noise. It was like a football crowd.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,051
    david_herdson said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    "Then Michelle Obama took the stage and made a powerful heartfelt case for the spouse of the person who was her husband’s main opponent in 2008"

    Wouldn't that be making the case for Bill Clinton?

    Or Cindy McCain?
    Ha.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,111
    PlatoSaid said:

    Indigo said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Has Bernie wrangled his supporters back under control?

    ttps://twitter.com/AP_Politics/status/757719646833373188

    It was certainly very strange earlier in the evening when his fans were booing every mention of Hillary's name - at one point it was deafening, with Bernites out heckling the Hillites in a wall of noise. It was like a football crowd.

    It's like the SIndyRef. No=Hillary; Yes=Bernie. His supporters are much more fired up and are working from the heart; hers know with their head that it's the better choice but aren't particularly enthused.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,856
    PlatoSaid said:

    I missed Bernie's speech - what time did he eventually go on stage? I stayed with the livestream until the small hours and what a strange spectacular at times it was.

    Inviting illegal immigrants on stage was probably the oddest moment for me.

    The PBSNewsHour account on YouTube has the key speeches in full. Bernie worked hard to bring his people around.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    @Blue_rog

    I watched this sort of behaviour growing up in Lambeth in the early 1980s.

    I never for a minute thought that Kinnock really purged the party of these types as so many of them were allowed to become MPs if they outwardly behaved themselves.

    They were able to bring in ghastly authoritarian laws such as thought hate crime legislation under Blair and even cowed the Tories into aquiescing, and now having bided their time they have crawled out from under their rock.

    Labour always were the nasty party, always infiltrated and compromised by hardline communist elements - ever since Gaitskills mysterious death they have been beyond the pale.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    For anyone with paywall access - this seems a pretty fair summary of the DNC events.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/sanders-urges-supporters-to-back-clinton-for-presidency-bqh3z8r96
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    IanB2 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I missed Bernie's speech - what time did he eventually go on stage? I stayed with the livestream until the small hours and what a strange spectacular at times it was.

    Inviting illegal immigrants on stage was probably the oddest moment for me.

    The PBSNewsHour account on YouTube has the key speeches in full. Bernie worked hard to bring his people around.
    BBC Parliament has the key speeches replayed from 7 45pm tonight until 10pm as it did for the GOP convention
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,010
    Wonder if Michelle will run for Pres one day ?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    david_herdson said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Indigo said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Has Bernie wrangled his supporters back under control?

    ttps://twitter.com/AP_Politics/status/757719646833373188

    It was certainly very strange earlier in the evening when his fans were booing every mention of Hillary's name - at one point it was deafening, with Bernites out heckling the Hillites in a wall of noise. It was like a football crowd.

    It's like the SIndyRef. No=Hillary; Yes=Bernie. His supporters are much more fired up and are working from the heart; hers know with their head that it's the better choice but aren't particularly enthused.

    Surely this is just triangulation -- Bernie's supporters will have to hold their noses and vote for Hillary just as Cruz's and Jeb's will do for Trump. Whether it's true remains to be seen but given the Clintons practically invented triangulation politics, it is no great surprise we see Hillary paying lip service to the left (Bernie and Elizabeth Warren) while tacking right.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder if Michelle will run for Pres one day ?

    I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited July 2016
    IanB2 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I missed Bernie's speech - what time did he eventually go on stage? I stayed with the livestream until the small hours and what a strange spectacular at times it was.

    Inviting illegal immigrants on stage was probably the oddest moment for me.

    The PBSNewsHour account on YouTube has the key speeches in full. Bernie worked hard to bring his people around.
    I'll have a looksee - thanks. The bits I've seen reminded me of Corbyn campaigning for Remain...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,733
    Morning all,

    Seems powerful stuff from the clip, but I wonder though how this will change the minds of those who are 'mad as hell and I'm not gonna take anymore' in the rust belts. To them American isn't great.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    edited July 2016
    Michelle Obama's speech that "America already is great"clearly showed how this election is in some ways a referendum on Obama's presidency. Hillary Clinton will have strong backing from the black and Hispanic community, the highly educated and professionals and the LGBT community and those living in big cities who are most comfortable with the Obama presidency. Trump will have strong backing from the white working class, the socially conservative and rural and small-town voters who desperately want change. Jeb Bush lost to Trump in part because he was seen as too close to Obama and not a big enough contrast

    In some ways the Sanders voters still holding out against Hillary also represent those on the left who found Obama a disappointing president with his drones, Obamacare rather than single payer and his failure to hammer Wall Street and big corporations as much as they would like. Sanders' speech may win a few more for Hillary as the lesser of two evils but some will vote for Jill Stein
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    rottenborough said:

    Morning all,

    Seems powerful stuff from the clip, but I wonder though how this will change the minds of those who are 'mad as hell and I'm not gonna take anymore' in the rust belts. To them American isn't great.

    Cough, Brexit Refedendum, Cough.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,786
    Quite liked this piece:

    "Young women are not universally crazy about the first-woman thing. Some just see her as an imperfect candidate. For others, it’s because the whole gender thing seems like yesterday’s news. “There aren’t as many overt questions about ‘Can a woman do it? Is it something the country is ready for?’ ” Clinton acknowledged.

    That’s probably true, and if it is, she deserves a lot of the credit. You can argue the pros and cons of Hillary Clinton’s character, or her potential to change the nation, or her position on trade policy. But you can never take away the fact that she was the one who made the idea of a woman becoming president so normal that many young women are bored by it."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/opinion/campaign-stops/behind-hillarys-mask.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

    I only saw the first parts of the Convention last night before I went to bed and it looked pretty disastrous. If Michelle Obama has pulled it around for her she did really well.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,010
    SquareRoot said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder if Michelle will run for Pres one day ?

    I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics.
    Lol now that is one thing the US DOES do ;)
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,375
    Mr Root,

    "I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics."

    The Kennedys, Bush senior, Bush junior, Clinton Mr, Clinton Mrs. I'd say that compares well with North Korea.

    There are about 300 million Americans. What are the odds against that happening by chance?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    Pulpstar said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder if Michelle will run for Pres one day ?

    I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics.
    Lol now that is one thing the US DOES do ;)
    Eric Trump was also tipped for office after his speech, Jeb Bush's son George P is now Texas Land Commissioner which is a stepping stone to governor and Bobby Kennedy's grandson is a Massachusetts congressman
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,696
    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder if Michelle will run for Pres one day ?

    Could be the first female president!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,855
    Tim_B said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Tim_B said:

    You won't believe this - Debbie Wasserman Schultz was fired as DNC chairman for her shamelessly pro-Clinton bias.

    She was hired Monday by Hillary Clinton as honorary chair of her 50 state campaign.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-immediately-joins-hillary/

    Surely a shameless pro-Clinton bias would be an asset in her new position.
    It just emphasizes that Hillary reflects the establishment, status quo, is dishonest and not trustworthy.
    Aren't dishonest and not trustworthy the same thing?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,786
    I can see Obama being a pretty influential past President. It will allow him to do what he is good at, making speeches, writing and to leave all the dull executive stuff behind. This may well be a base from which Michelle could launch her own campaign but it would need her to do a Clinton and take on a difficult and demanding job that showed (or failed to show) she was up for it.

    Clinton went off and was elected senator in her own right then did the Secretary of State job. If Michelle wants a run she will need to do something similar.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    SquareRoot said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder if Michelle will run for Pres one day ?

    I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics.
    But TSE would do hundreds of threads with US TV show references ....

    Hhmmm ... :cry:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,855
    Casino_Royale said:

    "Then Michelle Obama took the stage and made a powerful heartfelt case for the spouse of the person who was her husband’s main opponent in 2008"

    Wouldn't that be making the case for Bill Clinton?

    Yes.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,316
    Good morning, everyone.

    Only checked the BBC website but there seems to have been no terrorism today. So far. Gosh.

    Clinton getting booed at her own party's convention is not a great case of affairs. Makes the Republicans look united.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632

    Brexit referendum and Trump rather reminds me of the Rhodesian Election of 1962 (which saw the fairly liberal establishment UFP party defeated by Smiths Rhodesian Front (although Winston Field was leader at the time). Even the Rhodesia front did not expect to win.

    The result was a shock. The establishment always wins in Rhodesia, it was confidently said - which it did, until it didn't.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,855
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:


    Brexit referendum and Trump rather reminds me of the Rhodesian Election of 1962 (which saw the fairly liberal establishment UFP party defeated by Smiths Rhodesian Front (although Winston Field was leader at the time). Even the Rhodesia front did not expect to win.

    The result was a shock. The establishment always wins in Rhodesia, it was confidently said - which it did, until it didn't.

    I will be amused to see what the Five Star Movement does, should it be elected in Italy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,061
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Only checked the BBC website but there seems to have been no terrorism today. So far. Gosh.

    Clinton getting booed at her own party's convention is not a great case of affairs. Makes the Republicans look united.

    But we did still have the most case of mass killing in Japan for decades....
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder if Michelle will run for Pres one day ?

    I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics.
    Lol now that is one thing the US DOES do ;)
    Eric Trump was also tipped for office after his speech, Jeb Bush's son George P is now Texas Land Commissioner which is a stepping stone to governor and Bobby Kennedy's grandson is a Massachusetts congressman
    Will Straw
    Stephen Kinnock
    Joe Dromey
    Hillary Benn
    Nicholas Soames
    Nick Hurd
    Emily Benn
    David Prescott
    etc
    etc
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    edited July 2016
    CD13 said:

    Mr Root,

    "I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics."

    The Kennedys, Bush senior, Bush junior, Clinton Mr, Clinton Mrs. I'd say that compares well with North Korea.

    There are about 300 million Americans. What are the odds against that happening by chance?

    The U.S. President is the Head of State so equivalent to a monarch thus it is not that surprising. Spouses have both obtained or run for President in Argentina and France too. PMs can also occasionally be from dynasties, see Trudeau Senior and Junior
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,855
    JackW said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder if Michelle will run for Pres one day ?

    I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics.
    But TSE would do hundreds of threads with US TV show references ....

    Hhmmm ... :cry:
    After what happened on 11/22/63 in Dallas, the US seems to have have Dynasty politics.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder if Michelle will run for Pres one day ?

    I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics.
    Lol now that is one thing the US DOES do ;)
    Eric Trump was also tipped for office after his speech, Jeb Bush's son George P is now Texas Land Commissioner which is a stepping stone to governor and Bobby Kennedy's grandson is a Massachusetts congressman
    Will Straw
    Stephen Kinnock
    Joe Dromey
    Hillary Benn
    Nicholas Soames
    Nick Hurd
    Emily Benn
    David Prescott
    etc
    etc
    True and you can find many more in Congress too but we have not yet had spouses running for PM or a father following a son since Pitt
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    HYUFD said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Root,

    "I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics."

    The Kennedys, Bush senior, Bush junior, Clinton Mr, Clinton Mrs. I'd say that compares well with North Korea.

    There are about 300 million Americans. What are the odds against that happening by chance?

    The U.S. President is the Head of State so equivalent to a monarch thus it is not that surprising. Spouses have both obtained or run for President in Argentina and France too. PMs can also occasionally be from dynasties, see Trudeau Senior and Junior
    It really shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone – plumber’s son becomes plumber etc…
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,999
    rottenborough said:

    Morning all,

    Seems powerful stuff from the clip, but I wonder though how this will change the minds of those who are 'mad as hell and I'm not gonna take anymore' in the rust belts. To them American isn't great.

    Globalisation sucks for so many people. It's as simple as that. The problem is that there is no going back. How you square the circle is clearly beyond any of our political leaders currently. And automation is only going to make things worse. The super-rich - corporate and individual - would do well to reflect on the fact that the current situation is not sustainable. Unless they voluntarily begin to release the money they hoard and can never hope to spend, at some stage they will find themselves directly in the firing line with no hope of escape. Redistribution of wealth is in their own interests. If the super rich do not engage voluntarily with governments to get it done, they will find it being done for them in ways they will absolutely hate. Because when right wing populism fails, as it will, voters will tack to left.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Pew Research indicates 90% of Sanders supporters favour Clinton :

    http://www.people-press.org/2016/07/25/in-clintons-march-to-nomination-many-democrats-changed-their-minds/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:


    Brexit referendum and Trump rather reminds me of the Rhodesian Election of 1962 (which saw the fairly liberal establishment UFP party defeated by Smiths Rhodesian Front (although Winston Field was leader at the time). Even the Rhodesia front did not expect to win.

    The result was a shock. The establishment always wins in Rhodesia, it was confidently said - which it did, until it didn't.

    Except the U.S. Presidency is rather more significant than Rhodesia was. A protectionist, nationalist Trump presidency would impact us all and give such forces yet another boost post Brexit
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Only checked the BBC website but there seems to have been no terrorism today. So far. Gosh.

    Clinton getting booed at her own party's convention is not a great case of affairs. Makes the Republicans look united.

    The French cops have arrested another two over Nice. What a lot of friends this sad loner had after all.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,061
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:


    Brexit referendum and Trump rather reminds me of the Rhodesian Election of 1962 (which saw the fairly liberal establishment UFP party defeated by Smiths Rhodesian Front (although Winston Field was leader at the time). Even the Rhodesia front did not expect to win.

    The result was a shock. The establishment always wins in Rhodesia, it was confidently said - which it did, until it didn't.

    In modern day Rhodesia the establishment don't leave such things to chance...allegedly.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,316
    Mr. Urquhart, a fair point.

    I was half-amused, half-outraged to hear Stig Abell[sp] on the Sky papers last night suggest it was odd we'd see it completely differently had the attack happened in Germany.

    Disregarding the social, migration and geographical positions of countries then pretending they're identical and it's the differing interpretation of events in wildly different countries which is wrong is an intellectually vacant position to hold.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Only checked the BBC website but there seems to have been no terrorism today. So far. Gosh.

    Clinton getting booed at her own party's convention is not a great case of affairs. Makes the Republicans look united.

    No terrorism per se only a Japanese guy murdering (knifing to death)19 people in a home for people with mental disabilities
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,061
    edited July 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Only checked the BBC website but there seems to have been no terrorism today. So far. Gosh.

    Clinton getting booed at her own party's convention is not a great case of affairs. Makes the Republicans look united.

    The French cops have arrested another two over Nice. What a lot of friends this sad loner had after all.
    Maybe they were all part of a not proper Muslim gay sex ring?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    HYUFD said:

    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder if Michelle will run for Pres one day ?

    I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics.
    Lol now that is one thing the US DOES do ;)
    Eric Trump was also tipped for office after his speech, Jeb Bush's son George P is now Texas Land Commissioner which is a stepping stone to governor and Bobby Kennedy's grandson is a Massachusetts congressman
    Will Straw
    Stephen Kinnock
    Joe Dromey
    Hillary Benn
    Nicholas Soames
    Nick Hurd
    Emily Benn
    David Prescott
    etc
    etc
    True and you can find many more in Congress too but we have not yet had spouses running for PM or a father following a son since Pitt
    Thank goodness..
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Only checked the BBC website but there seems to have been no terrorism today. So far. Gosh.

    Clinton getting booed at her own party's convention is not a great case of affairs. Makes the Republicans look united.

    But we did still have the most case of mass killing in Japan for decades....
    He did very helpfully hand himself in to police - and apparently wrote to the government about killing all disabled people as a policy suggestion. I gather he spent a month in a psych hospital... someone's medical career is about to be cut short...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    rcs1000 said:

    After what happened on 11/22/63 in Dallas, the US seems to have have Dynasty politics.

    You are Joan Collins and I claim a large glass of cinzano ....
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,999
    HYUFD said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:


    Brexit referendum and Trump rather reminds me of the Rhodesian Election of 1962 (which saw the fairly liberal establishment UFP party defeated by Smiths Rhodesian Front (although Winston Field was leader at the time). Even the Rhodesia front did not expect to win.

    The result was a shock. The establishment always wins in Rhodesia, it was confidently said - which it did, until it didn't.

    Except the U.S. Presidency is rather more significant than Rhodesia was. A protectionist, nationalist Trump presidency would impact us all and give such forces yet another boost post Brexit

    Looking at the UK currently, I am struggling to see how the Establishment lost. It seems to be pretty much in as much control as it was before 23rd June.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    SimonStClare said:

    HYUFD said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Root,

    "I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics."

    The Kennedys, Bush senior, Bush junior, Clinton Mr, Clinton Mrs. I'd say that compares well with North Korea.

    There are about 300 million Americans. What are the odds against that happening by chance?

    The U.S. President is the Head of State so equivalent to a monarch thus it is not that surprising. Spouses have both obtained or run for President in Argentina and France too. PMs can also occasionally be from dynasties, see Trudeau Senior and Junior
    It really shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone – plumber’s son becomes plumber etc…
    Yes and they have name recognition and donors instantly
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    SquareRoot said:

    HYUFD said:

    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder if Michelle will run for Pres one day ?

    I hope not, the last thing any country needs is Dynasty politics.
    Lol now that is one thing the US DOES do ;)
    Eric Trump was also tipped for office after his speech, Jeb Bush's son George P is now Texas Land Commissioner which is a stepping stone to governor and Bobby Kennedy's grandson is a Massachusetts congressman
    Will Straw
    Stephen Kinnock
    Joe Dromey
    Hillary Benn
    Nicholas Soames
    Nick Hurd
    Emily Benn
    David Prescott
    etc
    etc
    True and you can find many more in Congress too but we have not yet had spouses running for PM or a father following a son since Pitt
    Thank goodness..
    For now....
  • eekeek Posts: 29,418
    OT - William Hague seems to be thinking about the forthcoming discontented in the telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/a-new-industrial-revolution-is-coming-is-theresa-may-ready-for-t/

    Personally 300 times the scope at 10 times the speed of the industrial revolution is a serious understatement.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,316
    Miss Plato, as an introvert, it does irk me a bit when they bang on about 'loners'. Meanwhile, an extrovert terrorist will be described as having a 'normal social life' or suchlike. But half the population are introverts. It's as crazy as describing women as short, penisless men incapable of growing beards.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,418
    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder if Michelle will run for Pres one day ?

    Someone has to fill the Democrat party void until Chelsea is old enough....
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    SquareRoot said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Only checked the BBC website but there seems to have been no terrorism today. So far. Gosh.

    Clinton getting booed at her own party's convention is not a great case of affairs. Makes the Republicans look united.

    No terrorism per se only a Japanese guy murdering (knifing to death)19 people in a home for people with mental disabilities
    In which he used to be an employee....
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Plato, as an introvert, it does irk me a bit when they bang on about 'loners'. Meanwhile, an extrovert terrorist will be described as having a 'normal social life' or suchlike. But half the population are introverts. It's as crazy as describing women as short, penisless men incapable of growing beards.

    Quite agree - it's lazy shorthand.

    I much prefer my own company - many of us do, and the older I get - the more I like it. Lots of socially reserved people also tend to be friends with others who enjoy being quiet or private or arms length sorts.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,316
    Unclear when a decision will be made on the legal challenge against Corbyn's automatic inclusion on the ballot:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36886159
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,696
    eek said:

    OT - William Hague seems to be thinking about the forthcoming discontented in the telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/a-new-industrial-revolution-is-coming-is-theresa-may-ready-for-t/

    Personally 300 times the scope at 10 times the speed of the industrial revolution is a serious understatement.

    Automation poses an interesting problem and will test to breaking point the P versus NP problem. Those who work in fields which require independent thought and innovation have that firewall against job destruction, but how long until we have AI smart enough to innovate as humans do?

    This is where our economic model breaks down and we need to start looking at universal basic income, there may come a time when there just aren't enough jobs that can be filled by humans. It won't be so much that the UBI will destroy the work incentive at that point, it's that the work won't exist.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    eek said:

    OT - William Hague seems to be thinking about the forthcoming discontented in the telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/a-new-industrial-revolution-is-coming-is-theresa-may-ready-for-t/

    Personally 300 times the scope at 10 times the speed of the industrial revolution is a serious understatement.

    He doesn't sound disappointed with the referendum result...

    last month it helped the Leave campaign to win a famous victory
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,335
    SouthamObserver said:

    HYUFD said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:


    Brexit referendum and Trump rather reminds me of the Rhodesian Election of 1962 (which saw the fairly liberal establishment UFP party defeated by Smiths Rhodesian Front (although Winston Field was leader at the time). Even the Rhodesia front did not expect to win.

    The result was a shock. The establishment always wins in Rhodesia, it was confidently said - which it did, until it didn't.

    Except the U.S. Presidency is rather more significant than Rhodesia was. A protectionist, nationalist Trump presidency would impact us all and give such forces yet another boost post Brexit

    Looking at the UK currently, I am struggling to see how the Establishment lost. It seems to be pretty much in as much control as it was before 23rd June.

    Some single market access will probably be lost in order to get some controls over free movement but really it was the EU establishment which lost not the Westminster establishment beyond Cameron and Osborne
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Plato, as an introvert, it does irk me a bit when they bang on about 'loners'. Meanwhile, an extrovert terrorist will be described as having a 'normal social life' or suchlike. But half the population are introverts. It's as crazy as describing women as short, penisless men incapable of growing beards.

    Description not specific enough. There are many such in public life, few are women.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    I'm shocked

    International Spectator
    UPDATE: Erdogan says EU failed to uphold its end of refugee deal, has transferred only 2 million of 3 billion euros ($3.3 billion) promised
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,316
    Miss Plato, well, the EU knows what happens if you don't pay Danegeld.

    Clever timing from the Fuhrer, too. France and Germany must be rather alarmed at recent events, and the spectre of a new flood of migrants won't fill them with joy.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    ThreeQuidder said:

    eek said:

    OT - William Hague seems to be thinking about the forthcoming discontented in the telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/a-new-industrial-revolution-is-coming-is-theresa-may-ready-for-t/

    Personally 300 times the scope at 10 times the speed of the industrial revolution is a serious understatement.

    He doesn't sound disappointed with the referendum result...

    last month it helped the Leave campaign to win a famous victory
    Frankly I think a lot of people in the Tory party probably feel liberated by the result. It's not necessarily that they think the right decision was made for the country, but just that they finally see the prospect of the end of the party's obsession with Europe.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,418
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    OT - William Hague seems to be thinking about the forthcoming discontented in the telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/a-new-industrial-revolution-is-coming-is-theresa-may-ready-for-t/

    Personally 300 times the scope at 10 times the speed of the industrial revolution is a serious understatement.

    Automation poses an interesting problem and will test to breaking point the P versus NP problem. Those who work in fields which require independent thought and innovation have that firewall against job destruction, but how long until we have AI smart enough to innovate as humans do?

    This is where our economic model breaks down and we need to start looking at universal basic income, there may come a time when there just aren't enough jobs that can be filled by humans. It won't be so much that the UBI will destroy the work incentive at that point, it's that the work won't exist.
    It was both the speed and the breadth I noticed it at a Microsoft event this weekend as they focused on some bits of Azure (their AWS) that I haven't been paying attention to...

    Here is 100 man years of work that allows you to connect sensors into our system and predict when you need the engineer out to service it next (for free or literally 1p a day for most sensors)... And that was only in the setup to the main bit of the talk
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,192
    alex. said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    eek said:

    OT - William Hague seems to be thinking about the forthcoming discontented in the telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/a-new-industrial-revolution-is-coming-is-theresa-may-ready-for-t/

    Personally 300 times the scope at 10 times the speed of the industrial revolution is a serious understatement.

    He doesn't sound disappointed with the referendum result...

    last month it helped the Leave campaign to win a famous victory
    Frankly I think a lot of people in the Tory party probably feel liberated by the result. It's not necessarily that they think the right decision was made for the country, but just that they finally see the prospect of the end of the party's obsession with Europe.
    Most Conservatives were generally sceptical on the EU. Some were actively hostile. I think there will be many who were reluctantly Remain due to the dislocative effects of leaving and the economic uncertainty inherent in leaving. I doubt many people in the party will advocate a return any time soon.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    ToryJim said:

    I just caught some clips of Michelle Obama's speech. She should seriously contemplate public office, I think she's possibly even a better speaker than her husband.

    I thought I heard people even booing when she mentioned Clinton.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,316
    F1: some way off and only approximate (had to check for Stuttgart rather than Hockenheim) but early indications are for dry qualifying and a wet race.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,696
    alex. said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    eek said:

    OT - William Hague seems to be thinking about the forthcoming discontented in the telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/a-new-industrial-revolution-is-coming-is-theresa-may-ready-for-t/

    Personally 300 times the scope at 10 times the speed of the industrial revolution is a serious understatement.

    He doesn't sound disappointed with the referendum result...

    last month it helped the Leave campaign to win a famous victory
    Frankly I think a lot of people in the Tory party probably feel liberated by the result. It's not necessarily that they think the right decision was made for the country, but just that they finally see the prospect of the end of the party's obsession with Europe.
    Remember it was Hague who took EUscepticism into the mainstream by opposing the Euro in 2001. Hague was the first party leader since the 70s to advocate detaching ourselves from the EU on a fundamental level by never joining the EMU. Since then Conservative leaders have followed the same steps. The EU has been seen as a shit organisation to Tory voters, but many were willing to compromise for economic gain. Now that we're out the party is united as it hasn't been on the EU for a long time.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    rcs1000 said:

    Tim_B said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Tim_B said:

    You won't believe this - Debbie Wasserman Schultz was fired as DNC chairman for her shamelessly pro-Clinton bias.

    She was hired Monday by Hillary Clinton as honorary chair of her 50 state campaign.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-immediately-joins-hillary/

    Surely a shameless pro-Clinton bias would be an asset in her new position.
    It just emphasizes that Hillary reflects the establishment, status quo, is dishonest and not trustworthy.
    Aren't dishonest and not trustworthy the same thing?
    60% think Hillary is not honest and trustworthy! Yikes.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    ThreeQuidder said:

    eek said:

    OT - William Hague seems to be thinking about the forthcoming discontented in the telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/a-new-industrial-revolution-is-coming-is-theresa-may-ready-for-t/

    Personally 300 times the scope at 10 times the speed of the industrial revolution is a serious understatement.

    He doesn't sound disappointed with the referendum result...

    last month it helped the Leave campaign to win a famous victory
    I think he is referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_Blenheim
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Tim_B said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Tim_B said:

    You won't believe this - Debbie Wasserman Schultz was fired as DNC chairman for her shamelessly pro-Clinton bias.

    She was hired Monday by Hillary Clinton as honorary chair of her 50 state campaign.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-immediately-joins-hillary/

    Surely a shameless pro-Clinton bias would be an asset in her new position.
    It just emphasizes that Hillary reflects the establishment, status quo, is dishonest and not trustworthy.
    Aren't dishonest and not trustworthy the same thing?
    Dishonest is a subset of not trustworthy I think - they are not synonymous
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Golly, a tough decision

    Bernie Ecclestone’s mother-in-law ‘held hostage by gangsters demanding £28MILLION ransom’ https://t.co/zb1S7oj4Uf https://t.co/2eLHOWri0U
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Tim_B said:

    You won't believe this - Debbie Wasserman Schultz was fired as DNC chairman for her shamelessly pro-Clinton bias.

    She was hired Monday by Hillary Clinton as honorary chair of her 50 state campaign.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-immediately-joins-hillary/

    Surely a shameless pro-Clinton bias would be an asset in her new position.
    Crooked Hillary!

  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Tim_B said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Tim_B said:

    You won't believe this - Debbie Wasserman Schultz was fired as DNC chairman for her shamelessly pro-Clinton bias.

    She was hired Monday by Hillary Clinton as honorary chair of her 50 state campaign.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-immediately-joins-hillary/

    Surely a shameless pro-Clinton bias would be an asset in her new position.
    It just emphasizes that Hillary reflects the establishment, status quo, is dishonest and not trustworthy.
    Aren't dishonest and not trustworthy the same thing?
    Dishonest is a subset of not trustworthy I think - they are not synonymous
    Indeed. Dishonest implies intent; not trustworthy doesn't necessarily.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    MaxPB said:

    alex. said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    eek said:

    OT - William Hague seems to be thinking about the forthcoming discontented in the telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/a-new-industrial-revolution-is-coming-is-theresa-may-ready-for-t/

    Personally 300 times the scope at 10 times the speed of the industrial revolution is a serious understatement.

    He doesn't sound disappointed with the referendum result...

    last month it helped the Leave campaign to win a famous victory
    Frankly I think a lot of people in the Tory party probably feel liberated by the result. It's not necessarily that they think the right decision was made for the country, but just that they finally see the prospect of the end of the party's obsession with Europe.
    Remember it was Hague who took EUscepticism into the mainstream by opposing the Euro in 2001. Hague was the first party leader since the 70s to advocate detaching ourselves from the EU on a fundamental level by never joining the EMU. Since then Conservative leaders have followed the same steps. The EU has been seen as a shit organisation to Tory voters, but many were willing to compromise for economic gain. Now that we're out the party is united as it hasn't been on the EU for a long time.
    Indeed, but he was officially Remain. So either he's reached Acceptance quicker than most, or he was about as Remain as Corbyn was...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,073
    ToryJim said:

    timmo said:

    ToryJim said:

    I just caught some clips of Michelle Obama's speech. She should seriously contemplate public office, I think she's possibly even a better speaker than her husband.

    Being a good speaker does not in itself make you perfect for public office. In fact on its own it is incredibly dangerous.
    No but it surely helps!
    It does, although personally I like my politicians to have had to put a bit of grinding work in as well. Being a good public speaker with very good political connections means you don't have to work as hard as you get parachuted into great jobs without needing to prove anything in terms of the non public speaking parts of the role.
    PlatoSaid said:

    Golly, a tough decision

    Bernie Ecclestone’s mother-in-law ‘held hostage by gangsters demanding £28MILLION ransom’ https://t.co/zb1S7oj4Uf https://t.co/2eLHOWri0U

    Pocket change for Bernie of course.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Make America tall again!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36888541
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,073
    ToryJim said:

    alex. said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    eek said:

    OT - William Hague seems to be thinking about the forthcoming discontented in the telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/a-new-industrial-revolution-is-coming-is-theresa-may-ready-for-t/

    Personally 300 times the scope at 10 times the speed of the industrial revolution is a serious understatement.

    He doesn't sound disappointed with the referendum result...

    last month it helped the Leave campaign to win a famous victory
    Frankly I think a lot of people in the Tory party probably feel liberated by the result. It's not necessarily that they think the right decision was made for the country, but just that they finally see the prospect of the end of the party's obsession with Europe.
    Most Conservatives were generally sceptical on the EU. Some were actively hostile. I think there will be many who were reluctantly Remain due to the dislocative effects of leaving and the economic uncertainty inherent in leaving. I doubt many people in the party will advocate a return any time soon.
    Probably not. As long as there's no apocalyptic reaction there won't be a desire to revisit in any way.

    If it turns out we made a mistake and have to go crawling back, it won't be your a long time, and lord knows what the price would be.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    ThreeQuidder said:

    MaxPB said:

    alex. said:

    ThreeQuidder said:

    eek said:

    OT - William Hague seems to be thinking about the forthcoming discontented in the telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/a-new-industrial-revolution-is-coming-is-theresa-may-ready-for-t/

    Personally 300 times the scope at 10 times the speed of the industrial revolution is a serious understatement.

    He doesn't sound disappointed with the referendum result...

    last month it helped the Leave campaign to win a famous victory
    Frankly I think a lot of people in the Tory party probably feel liberated by the result. It's not necessarily that they think the right decision was made for the country, but just that they finally see the prospect of the end of the party's obsession with Europe.
    Remember it was Hague who took EUscepticism into the mainstream by opposing the Euro in 2001. Hague was the first party leader since the 70s to advocate detaching ourselves from the EU on a fundamental level by never joining the EMU. Since then Conservative leaders have followed the same steps. The EU has been seen as a shit organisation to Tory voters, but many were willing to compromise for economic gain. Now that we're out the party is united as it hasn't been on the EU for a long time.
    Indeed, but he was officially Remain. So either he's reached Acceptance quicker than most, or he was about as Remain as Corbyn was...
    No. Again, read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_Blenheim

    "Famous victory" is sarcastic.
This discussion has been closed.