Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The CON leadership line-up is worryingly thin

12467

Comments

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Gisela Stuart MP ‏@GiselaStuart 2h2 hours ago
    #Speaker granted my urgent question on "legal status of EU nationals" at 3.30 this afternoon

    You have to be kidding me!! She wouldn't need to be doing this if she hadn't campaigned on a pack of lies and got the public to back her mad idea to leave the EU.

    Another one in favour of conceding negotiating points before we start negotiating?

    They really haven't thought this through, have they?

    Amateur hour.....
    Rather than Ministers give answers, it should be her. Question: "Gisela, what should be the legal status of EU Nationals ?"
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Is Evans quitting as TG host really the No 1 most important news story right now, per the BBC News website headlines?

    Really...?

    Only if you work in their accounts dept :wink:
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439
    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    So to summarise... A leader for hard times:

    Gove – a gossipy backstabber who treats the UK like an Oxford debating society

    Leadsom – a Platoite far right frother funded by Ukip who was a europhile until 2013

    Crabb – a bible basher who thinks homosexuality is a disease that can be cured

    Fox – Liam Fox, Fox, Fox

    May – a teetotal 60-year-old lady with bags of experience who spends her holidays hill walking with her husband

    Now let me think.

    May's a teetotallet because of her diabetes you muppet. It's hard enough to control blood sugar without drinking..
    Is there any need to respond like that? Totally uncalled for and I hadn't suggested otherwise. I am aware she is Type 1 diabetic.
    You just happened to be in the line of fire...

    Getting irritated by people making an issue of a reduction in drinking for health reasons
    Surely there's no other reason for reducing your drinking?
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    So to summarise... A leader for hard times:

    Gove – a gossipy backstabber who treats the UK like an Oxford debating society

    Leadsom – a Platoite far right frother funded by Ukip who was a europhile until 2013

    Crabb – a bible basher who thinks homosexuality is a disease that can be cured

    Fox – Liam Fox, Fox, Fox

    May – a teetotal 60-year-old lady with bags of experience who spends her holidays hill walking with her husband

    Now let me think.

    May's a teetotallet because of her diabetes you muppet. It's hard enough to control blood sugar without drinking..
    Has she said she's teetotal - or just doesn't spend her time in the Westminster bars?

    She wasn't teetotal at University
    U knew May! What were her politics then?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Is Evans quitting as TG host really the No 1 most important news story right now, per the BBC News website headlines?

    Really...?

    Chris Evans is the newest news story. Only second lead on Sky though.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    In this rather unstable period, what do we know about the financial states of the main parties?

    Which are good, and which might find funding a sudden GE campaign difficult?

    As a rule, they all seem to live on their overdrafts. I think the LDs used to be better, but Mr Clegg was more of a spendthrift.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    <

    Thanks, Andrea. Worth noting that a month or two ago, the centre-right were saying they were doing unusually well in NEC nominations. That seems on these figures to be entirely wrong.

    Anecdotally, I've been chatting to a few (four) members about a possible Corbyn-Eagle election. Three were vehemently pro-Corbyn, the fourth would have benn up for an alternative, but not Eagle because of Iraq.

    I've also come across the same reaction regarding Eagle, Nick. It is bizarre how the hard left use Iraq and latter Syria to define a socialist, but that's the infantile level of debate we've been reduced to. Owen Smith would be better because he comes without the baggage, and Eagle should realise that but she clearly doesn't judging from her comments today. I only hope that both put their names forward, that Eagle gets the fewer nominations and then withdraws.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,340
    Hmm, just been reading more about Leadsom, doesn't deny she is trying to win over UKIP supporters but also claims she can win over Labour ones too. Sounds like she is trying to build a "movement" much the same as our much derided leader of the opposition.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    DearPB said:

    Huw Merriman is the only Tory MP who failed to declare a referendum voting intention and has also not declared for a leadership candidate. Clearly fancies his leadership chances next time around and is keeping his powder dry. Either that or he's completely pointless!

    Looks like smart politics to me that bit.

    I expect he'll come out and support May.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Trickett goes to the NEC replacing Angela Eagle as one of the Frontbench Reps
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439

    In this rather unstable period, what do we know about the financial states of the main parties?

    Which are good, and which might find funding a sudden GE campaign difficult?

    Tories are flush - thank you Lord Feldman
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439
    Pulpstar said:

    DearPB said:

    Huw Merriman is the only Tory MP who failed to declare a referendum voting intention and has also not declared for a leadership candidate. Clearly fancies his leadership chances next time around and is keeping his powder dry. Either that or he's completely pointless!

    Looks like smart politics to me that bit.

    I expect he'll come out and support May.
    The day before the result!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited July 2016
    DearPB said:

    Huw Merriman is the only Tory MP who failed to declare a referendum voting intention and has also not declared for a leadership candidate. Clearly fancies his leadership chances next time around and is keeping his powder dry. Either that or he's completely pointless!

    He's a smart cookie. One to watch.

    Edit: He handled the referendum very well. He chaired a series of constituency debates on the subject, and argued that he didn't want to compromise his neutrality in those debates by taking a side.

    I haven't spoken to him recently, but I'd be gobsmacked if he's not backing Theresa May.
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439

    In this rather unstable period, what do we know about the financial states of the main parties?

    Which are good, and which might find funding a sudden GE campaign difficult?

    As a rule, they all seem to live on their overdrafts. I think the LDs used to be better, but Mr Clegg was more of a spendthrift.
    Feldman eliminated Tory party debt
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662

    Trickett goes to the NEC replacing Angela Eagle as one of the Frontbench Reps

    Good news for Corbyn, less good for the plotters.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    AndyJS said:

    The new incarnation of Top Gear didn't last long did it.

    The new lead presenter didn't at least.

    I think it will return, and if they can just get away from just trying to ape the old Clarkson et al format, I think a reasonably good programme can emerge from the wreckage, without Evans. The last couple of episodes were improving, it was in a way starting to find its feet a bit.

    I always felt that, despite the hype, burying this relaunch series in the summer months and up against Euro2016 was done to "test it out" and give them an excuse for poor ratings.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:
    How times change.

    It's just called "Cellar" now.
    It was briefly the Purple Turtle I believe!
    The PT is still the PT. But next door is the (Jazz) Cellar (either that or the Cellar moved next door). The PT is more directly affiliated with the Union, but they share a building...
    Ah. It was a Davy's in my day.
    The Cellar is the club next door that has nowt to do with the Union.

    I doubt that the Turtle was called the Turtle when Gove was there - the first one opened in Reading in 1990.
    It was still the Cellar Bar in my (post Mensch) days
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited July 2016
    AndyJS said:

    "Malcolm Turnbull's Coalition Government is facing a desperate fight to hang on to a majority in Parliament. On the count so far it has won at least 68 seats, eight fewer than the 76 needed to command a majority in the Lower House.
    While Bill Shorten and Labor also look set to fall short of being able to form a majority government, they have staged an amazing comeback that has again highlighted the volatility of modern Australian politics."

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-03/election-results-what-just-happened/7553916

    BTW in Newham apparently Vote Leave had 200 (!) volunteers turn up at the campaign centre on the day of the vote which might help explain why the result was so different to Tower Hamlets, if this was consistent throughout the campaign then that is a lot of foot soldiers.


    As to why Newham had so many willing volunteers? No idea?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    In this rather unstable period, what do we know about the financial states of the main parties?

    Which are good, and which might find funding a sudden GE campaign difficult?

    Tories can fight one the rest would struggle
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited July 2016
    DearPB said:

    In this rather unstable period, what do we know about the financial states of the main parties?

    Which are good, and which might find funding a sudden GE campaign difficult?

    As a rule, they all seem to live on their overdrafts. I think the LDs used to be better, but Mr Clegg was more of a spendthrift.
    Feldman eliminated Tory party debt
    I doubt that. The most recent numbers on the Electoral Commission website are 2014. New numbers are presumably due this month.

    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/political-parties-campaigning-and-donations/political-parties-annual-accounts/details-of-accounts

    Having just fought an election in 2015, I'd guess they're all hopelessly in debt.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    The Purple Turtle Union Bar

    The free entry, student nightclub for Union members. Back in the 1960s, Michael Heseltine (as Union President) converted the Union's coal cellars into a downstairs Cellar Bar. During the 1980s, half the cellars were leased off. Since October 1998, the Union Cellars are now re-joined, and relaunched as the 'Purple Turtle Union Bar'.


    Right, so maybe once the lease expired they moved in next door.

    Not sure, as that would suggest the PT (as now) contains the leased off cellars. The Cellar is nearer the front of that alleyway.

    I DJ'ed at both and have had a root around the backrooms. If they were ever joined, it's not obvious.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, just been reading more about Leadsom, doesn't deny she is trying to win over UKIP supporters but also claims she can win over Labour ones too. Sounds like she is trying to build a "movement" much the same as our much derided leader of the opposition.

    Leadsom and Corbyn would be better off starting their own party together, taking their deranged followers with them
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,295
    edited July 2016

    JohnO said:

    MaxPB said:

    JohnO said:

    IIRC thus far, of all the Conservative members posting here, is Plato the only one to declare for Leadsom with May capturing literally every one else? Can't recall that Gove, Crabb and Fox have attracted any votes. It's a sign I tell you....

    I think @TCPoliticalBetting is undecided and doesn't trust May to deliver on free movement.
    Oh, I hadn't realised that TC was a member: had assumed, presumably incorrectly that she/he was a kipper.
    JohnO, a member from 2005 - which is quite a time these days.
    Mrs May has not set out any new plan for addressing the free movement of labour into unskilled jobs, even though she has the full inside knowledge of the systems and options. I have consistently cut her some slack for the problems Osborne has caused her in delivering tighter border controls due to his budget cuts and Osborne's opposition to controls on immigrant labour. Also I give her allowance for the effects of the EU. But as a prospective PM she is now free of all those factors and where is her Plan? Only silence.
    Thanks but you're a mere stripling in membership terms. 2005? I joined in 1975 and still going strong and probably, at 60, a "young" Conservative!
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    So to summarise... A leader for hard times:

    Gove – a gossipy backstabber who treats the UK like an Oxford debating society

    Leadsom – a Platoite far right frother funded by Ukip who was a europhile until 2013

    Crabb – a bible basher who thinks homosexuality is a disease that can be cured

    Fox – Liam Fox, Fox, Fox

    May – a teetotal 60-year-old lady with bags of experience who spends her holidays hill walking with her husband

    Now let me think.

    May's a teetotallet because of her diabetes you muppet. It's hard enough to control blood sugar without drinking..
    Is there any need to respond like that? Totally uncalled for and I hadn't suggested otherwise. I am aware she is Type 1 diabetic.
    You just happened to be in the line of fire...

    Getting irritated by people making an issue of a reduction in drinking for health reasons
    I wasn't making an issue of it.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    It cancelled out the change happened this morning with the election unopposed of the 3 backbenchers' reps on the NEC. Beckett and Mahmood were re-elected but Skinner didn't stand and his place went to George Howarth.

    So at the end of the day it's a score draw.
    Pulpstar said:

    Trickett goes to the NEC replacing Angela Eagle as one of the Frontbench Reps

    Good news for Corbyn, less good for the plotters.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Pulpstar said:

    Trickett goes to the NEC replacing Angela Eagle as one of the Frontbench Reps

    Good news for Corbyn, less good for the plotters.
    He's on next http://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/89a8f38d-0676-4873-b388-46666415e8bf
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    The Purple Turtle Union Bar

    The free entry, student nightclub for Union members. Back in the 1960s, Michael Heseltine (as Union President) converted the Union's coal cellars into a downstairs Cellar Bar. During the 1980s, half the cellars were leased off. Since October 1998, the Union Cellars are now re-joined, and relaunched as the 'Purple Turtle Union Bar'.


    Right, so maybe once the lease expired they moved in next door.

    Not sure, as that would suggest the PT (as now) contains the leased off cellars. The Cellar is nearer the front of that alleyway.

    I DJ'ed at both and have had a root around the backrooms. If they were ever joined, it's not obvious.
    I gave a New Orleans Funeral Party there in around 1973!
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    "The Conservative party is choosing our next Prime Minister"

    Totally agree Alastair, been saying exactly that elsewhere, the Conservative party doesn't have the luxury of seeing this contest through the prism of one issue!
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Gisela Stuart MP ‏@GiselaStuart 2h2 hours ago
    #Speaker granted my urgent question on "legal status of EU nationals" at 3.30 this afternoon

    You have to be kidding me!! She wouldn't need to be doing this if she hadn't campaigned on a pack of lies and got the public to back her mad idea to leave the EU.

    Well quite.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    edited July 2016
    Why aren't the PLP prepared to take a 2020 loss on the chin. The Lib Dems were utterly battered in 2015, but the conduct in taking the beating was quite admirable.

    When will Labour learn to lose gracefully ?
  • Jobabob said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, just been reading more about Leadsom, doesn't deny she is trying to win over UKIP supporters but also claims she can win over Labour ones too. Sounds like she is trying to build a "movement" much the same as our much derided leader of the opposition.

    Leadsom and Corbyn would be better off starting their own party together, taking their deranged followers with them
    Why? Both have views fully in touch with the membership of their respective parties. Obviously, Leadsom has the advantage that her views are also in touch with the general public's. It is only a few bitter Remainers that have a visceral dislike for her. I look forward to seeing how focus groups react.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Pulpstar said:

    Trickett goes to the NEC replacing Angela Eagle as one of the Frontbench Reps

    Good news for Corbyn, less good for the plotters.
    Not necessarily. I don't think the legal opinion that Corbyn can be kept off the ballot will hold up to any legal challenge, and the attempt to deny members a ballot would undoubtably get a lot of uncommitted Labour members' backs up prior to the time when the NEC would be forced to back down and run a contest with Corbyn on the ballot. Far better then for the challenger's prospects for Corbyn to be on the ballot through the initial decision of the NEC.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,387


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Jobabob said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, just been reading more about Leadsom, doesn't deny she is trying to win over UKIP supporters but also claims she can win over Labour ones too. Sounds like she is trying to build a "movement" much the same as our much derided leader of the opposition.

    Leadsom and Corbyn would be better off starting their own party together, taking their deranged followers with them
    Who are Leadsom's followers? The 17 million who voted Leave?

  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439
    I'd genuinely never heard of Owen Smith until a week ago - is he any good? Why is he getting support?
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, just been reading more about Leadsom, doesn't deny she is trying to win over UKIP supporters but also claims she can win over Labour ones too. Sounds like she is trying to build a "movement" much the same as our much derided leader of the opposition.

    Leadsom and Corbyn would be better off starting their own party together, taking their deranged followers with them
    Who are Leadsom's followers? The 17 million who voted Leave?

    No.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,295
    edited July 2016
    nunu said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    So to summarise... A leader for hard times:

    Gove – a gossipy backstabber who treats the UK like an Oxford debating society

    Leadsom – a Platoite far right frother funded by Ukip who was a europhile until 2013

    Crabb – a bible basher who thinks homosexuality is a disease that can be cured

    Fox – Liam Fox, Fox, Fox

    May – a teetotal 60-year-old lady with bags of experience who spends her holidays hill walking with her husband

    Now let me think.

    May's a teetotallet because of her diabetes you muppet. It's hard enough to control blood sugar without drinking..
    Has she said she's teetotal - or just doesn't spend her time in the Westminster bars?

    She wasn't teetotal at University
    U knew May! What were her politics then?
    She was also there in my time. Conservative but her energies were more directed at the Oxford Union. To be a bit bitchy (oh, why not) she was not a memorable speaker!

    PS I wonder if Carlotta and I knew each other then....we appear to have moved at least in some similar circles!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The gist of the UQ appears to be that we should abandon British citizens currently resident in the EU to their fate
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    DearPB said:

    I'd genuinely never heard of Owen Smith until a week ago - is he any good? Why is he getting support?

    He's not Angela Eagle.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Jobabob said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    So to summarise... A leader for hard times:

    Gove – a gossipy backstabber who treats the UK like an Oxford debating society

    Leadsom – a Platoite far right frother funded by Ukip who was a europhile until 2013

    Crabb – a bible basher who thinks homosexuality is a disease that can be cured

    Fox – Liam Fox, Fox, Fox

    May – a teetotal 60-year-old lady with bags of experience who spends her holidays hill walking with her husband

    Now let me think.

    May's a teetotallet because of her diabetes you muppet. It's hard enough to control blood sugar without drinking..
    Is there any need to respond like that? Totally uncalled for and I hadn't suggested otherwise. I am aware she is Type 1 diabetic.
    You just happened to be in the line of fire...

    Getting irritated by people making an issue of a reduction in drinking for health reasons
    I wasn't making an issue of it.
    Collateral damage.

    And "muppet" is a term of endearment where I come from...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2016
    DearPB said:

    I'd genuinely never heard of Owen Smith until a week ago - is he any good? Why is he getting support?

    His biggest claim to fame is coming uncomfortably close to losing the ultra-safe Labour seat of Pontypridd to the Lib Dems in 2010:

    http://bit.ly/29r6oii
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270

    AndyJS said:

    Gove surely has to be value at 15/1 with Betfair. If he gets into the last three (and he almost certainly will) he's bound to come down to about half of that at least.

    I have to disagree Andy. I think Gove will go out without ever looking like winning, whether it is on the first or second ballot or by withdrawing.
    Gove would have shaken things up if he had said that he was standing until early 2019 only, in order to have an extended beauty parade for his successor. In the meantime, he would get on with Brexit.... He probably would still have been stuffed by knifing Boris, but it would at least have looked less self-serving.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Italian banks tumble:

    Bank 'Monte Paschi' plunges to record low after ECB letter ─► https://t.co/H5tPM0AbtZ https://t.co/w1lBJgnboQ

    Italy must surely be too big to bail out?
    It looks like the last thing the EU needs is putting up trade barriers with a major economy.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Pulpstar said:

    Why aren't the PLP prepared to take a 2020 loss on the chin. The Lib Dems were utterly battered in 2015, but the conduct in taking the beating was quite admirable.

    When will Labour learn to lose gracefully ?


    LOL.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,251


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Its touching to listen to MPs so concerned about the rights of EU citizens in Britain, but not much fussed about the rights of UK citizens living in Europe......
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, just been reading more about Leadsom, doesn't deny she is trying to win over UKIP supporters but also claims she can win over Labour ones too. Sounds like she is trying to build a "movement" much the same as our much derided leader of the opposition.

    Leadsom and Corbyn would be better off starting their own party together, taking their deranged followers with them
    Who are Leadsom's followers? The 17 million who voted Leave?

    No.
    The 36,600 who voted for her in 2015?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    JohnO said:

    She was also there in my time. Conservative but her energies were more directed at the Oxford Union. To be a bit bitchy (oh, why not) she was not a memorable speaker!

    TBH she's not a memorable speaker now.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    DearPB said:

    I'd genuinely never heard of Owen Smith until a week ago - is he any good? Why is he getting support?

    Ex BBC presenter, sounds middle class and sensible.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    No worries Alistair, Theresa will fill the post of PM superbly!
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    James Brokenshire getting an absolute panning over EU nationals.

    The PM was absolutely wrong to resign so soon. It just feels no-one is in charge.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.
    Negotiating position be damned, I think this is an awful position to take. We had all manner of hand wringing about immigrants feeling unwanted, and now we're putting them all into some ghastly limbo? Fuck me, what is wrong with this country's moral compass?

    If any of the European countries start pissing around, we can revisit the issue. I think I'm correct in saying that only Spain has more Brits than vice versa, France is a wash, and we have more of theirs vs ours in every other EU country. I'll have a dig and check.

    *edit Cyprus has more Brits than we have Cypriots, Finland is a wash*
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, just been reading more about Leadsom, doesn't deny she is trying to win over UKIP supporters but also claims she can win over Labour ones too. Sounds like she is trying to build a "movement" much the same as our much derided leader of the opposition.

    Leadsom and Corbyn would be better off starting their own party together, taking their deranged followers with them
    Who are Leadsom's followers? The 17 million who voted Leave?

    No.
    The 36,600 who voted for her in 2015?
    No.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,251
    Scott_P said:

    The gist of the UQ appears to be that we should abandon British citizens currently resident in the EU to their fate

    A Labour MP has finally raised the question about Brits abroad.....most of the time its been LEAVErs complaining about the mess they've helped create......
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    BREAKING: TSE to resign, citing a desire to have his life back
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,387

    James Brokenshire getting an absolute panning over EU nationals.

    The PM was absolutely wrong to resign so soon. It just feels no-one is in charge.

    We've still got a fecking Home Secretary. What a waste of space.
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439
    PlatoSaid said:

    DearPB said:

    I'd genuinely never heard of Owen Smith until a week ago - is he any good? Why is he getting support?

    Ex BBC presenter, sounds middle class and sensible.
    Chris Evans is an ex-BBC presenter, I wouldn't vote for him.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, just been reading more about Leadsom, doesn't deny she is trying to win over UKIP supporters but also claims she can win over Labour ones too. Sounds like she is trying to build a "movement" much the same as our much derided leader of the opposition.

    Leadsom and Corbyn would be better off starting their own party together, taking their deranged followers with them
    Who are Leadsom's followers? The 17 million who voted Leave?

    No.
    The 36,600 who voted for her in 2015?
    No.
    The 130,000 Conservative Party members who are shortly going to vote for her in the Con leadership election?
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    AndyJS said:

    DearPB said:

    I'd genuinely never heard of Owen Smith until a week ago - is he any good? Why is he getting support?

    His biggest claim to fame is coming uncomfortably close to losing the ultra-safe Labour seat of Pontypridd to the Lib Dems in 2010:

    http://bit.ly/29r6oii
    Owen Smith is a very scratchy character and very, very tribal.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.

    You voted to Leave. Bit rich to hear you moralising now.
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439

    AndyJS said:

    DearPB said:

    I'd genuinely never heard of Owen Smith until a week ago - is he any good? Why is he getting support?

    His biggest claim to fame is coming uncomfortably close to losing the ultra-safe Labour seat of Pontypridd to the Lib Dems in 2010:

    http://bit.ly/29r6oii
    Owen Smith is a very scratchy character and very, very tribal.
    By scratchy you mean?
  • chrisoxonchrisoxon Posts: 204

    AndyJS said:

    Gove surely has to be value at 15/1 with Betfair. If he gets into the last three (and he almost certainly will) he's bound to come down to about half of that at least.

    I have to disagree Andy. I think Gove will go out without ever looking like winning, whether it is on the first or second ballot or by withdrawing.
    Gove would have shaken things up if he had said that he was standing until early 2019 only, in order to have an extended beauty parade for his successor. In the meantime, he would get on with Brexit.... He probably would still have been stuffed by knifing Boris, but it would at least have looked less self-serving.
    I had hoped that Gove would have proposed acting as caretaker immediately after DC announced his departure. It would have given the "inexperienced" a chance to have a proper run in the cabinet to prove their mettle.

    That being said, I'm not buying into the story that you can't be PM unless you've had a 4 year internship as leader of the opposition, or in one of the great offices of state. Worth remembering that the current incumbent of the oval office had no executive experience prior to running for President!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,563

    AndyJS said:

    Gove surely has to be value at 15/1 with Betfair. If he gets into the last three (and he almost certainly will) he's bound to come down to about half of that at least.

    I have to disagree Andy. I think Gove will go out without ever looking like winning, whether it is on the first or second ballot or by withdrawing.
    Gove would have shaken things up if he had said that he was standing until early 2019 only, in order to have an extended beauty parade for his successor. In the meantime, he would get on with Brexit.... He probably would still have been stuffed by knifing Boris, but it would at least have looked less self-serving.
    Don't waste your money. The members in the shires wont vote for a double rat with Lady MacBeth as a wife, But DYOR.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited July 2016
    Jobabob said:


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.

    You voted to Leave. Bit rich to hear you moralising now.
    All the Leave spokespeople have said current EU migrants should be able to stay here.

    The only voices against have been Mr Hammond, and Ms May.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,340

    Jobabob said:


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.

    You voted to Leave. Bit rich to hear you moralising now.
    All the Leave spokespeople have said current EU migrants should be able to stay here.

    The only voices against have been Mr Hammond, and Ms May.

    Yes because they want to ensure the EU gives UK citizens in the EU the same rights before confirming.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited July 2016

    All the Leave spokespeople have said current EU migrants should be able to stay here.

    The only voices against have been Mr Hammond, and Ms May.

    Only Hammond and May standing up for the rights of UK citizens abroad
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,340

    AndyJS said:

    Gove surely has to be value at 15/1 with Betfair. If he gets into the last three (and he almost certainly will) he's bound to come down to about half of that at least.

    I have to disagree Andy. I think Gove will go out without ever looking like winning, whether it is on the first or second ballot or by withdrawing.
    Gove would have shaken things up if he had said that he was standing until early 2019 only, in order to have an extended beauty parade for his successor. In the meantime, he would get on with Brexit.... He probably would still have been stuffed by knifing Boris, but it would at least have looked less self-serving.
    Don't waste your money. The members in the shires wont vote for a double rat with Lady MacBeth as a wife, But DYOR.
    Neither will the ones in London.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Oh no, his biggest claim was losing the Blaenau Gwent by-election. "Oily Smith" as they called him in the anti labour leaflets.
    AndyJS said:

    DearPB said:

    I'd genuinely never heard of Owen Smith until a week ago - is he any good? Why is he getting support?

    His biggest claim to fame is coming uncomfortably close to losing the ultra-safe Labour seat of Pontypridd to the Lib Dems in 2010:

    http://bit.ly/29r6oii
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439
    chrisoxon said:

    AndyJS said:

    Gove surely has to be value at 15/1 with Betfair. If he gets into the last three (and he almost certainly will) he's bound to come down to about half of that at least.

    I have to disagree Andy. I think Gove will go out without ever looking like winning, whether it is on the first or second ballot or by withdrawing.
    Gove would have shaken things up if he had said that he was standing until early 2019 only, in order to have an extended beauty parade for his successor. In the meantime, he would get on with Brexit.... He probably would still have been stuffed by knifing Boris, but it would at least have looked less self-serving.
    I had hoped that Gove would have proposed acting as caretaker immediately after DC announced his departure. It would have given the "inexperienced" a chance to have a proper run in the cabinet to prove their mettle.

    That being said, I'm not buying into the story that you can't be PM unless you've had a 4 year internship as leader of the opposition, or in one of the great offices of state. Worth remembering that the current incumbent of the oval office had no executive experience prior to running for President!
    And that's gone so well.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. JS, I guess they'll give Top Gear one more shot.

    The format's fine and it could work (albeit less successfully than before) with new presenters, but having seven (including Stig) was stupid and having Evans as the lead was not necessarily an intelligent decision either.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,563
    Freggles said:

    BREAKING: TSE to resign, citing a desire to have his life back

    LOL.
  • RealBritainRealBritain Posts: 255
    Stuart seems to be suffering some kind of 'buyer's remorse". Suddenly the welfare of EU migrants is all of her biggest concern. I did say her demeanour seemed very bizarre throughout the campaign, as someone in a clear conflict or crisis ; simultaneously highly emotional and very disconnected.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,387
    Jobabob said:


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.

    You voted to Leave. Bit rich to hear you moralising now.
    I thought everyone on all sides agreed that existing residents' rights were protected by some convention or other. It isn't Labour Leave that is trying to backslide now, just the Nasty Party.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    Pulpstar said:

    DearPB said:

    I'd genuinely never heard of Owen Smith until a week ago - is he any good? Why is he getting support?

    He's not Angela Eagle.
    Or your pussy

  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.

    You voted to Leave. Bit rich to hear you moralising now.
    All the Leave spokespeople have said current EU migrants should be able to stay here.

    The only voices against have been Mr Hammond, and Ms May.

    Yes because they want to ensure the EU gives UK citizens in the EU the same rights before confirming.
    Really don't think it's necessary. There are ~1.2 million Brits in the EU and ~3.2 million EU citizens here. As we want an amicable divorce, I think it sets the wrong tone from the outset.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2016
    Regarding Farage, when was the last time someone achieved something so momentous in British politics without being a member of Parliament? Maybe you could cite Shirley Williams and Roy Jenkins helping to set up the SDP in 1981 while out of the Commons, although the other two members of the Gang of Four were MPs.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,993
    Jobabob said:

    So to summarise... A leader for hard times:

    (Snip)
    May – a teetotal 60-year-old lady with bags of experience who spends her holidays hill walking with her husband

    Damn! Why are the Conservatives even having an election? It's clear Mrs May is the ideal candidate and should become PM immediately!

    I wonder what her favourite Munro is? Or is she more of a downs-style lass?

    Seriously though, I remember Robin Cook was a serious walker (and I think he died on a hill). What other serious walking MPs are there?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    I am perplexed by the view EU citizens here should have rights guaranteed unilaterally, without a corresponding guarantee in place for UK citizens in the EU.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,040
    Crabb is by far the weakest candidate for the Tories. Ludicrous presumption on his part. I suspect he puts the ability to tie his shoelaces on his CV - I can't see anything else of merit there.

    Labour's candidates are all quite poor - and the best of them seem to be totally sidelined.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    John_M said:

    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.

    You voted to Leave. Bit rich to hear you moralising now.
    All the Leave spokespeople have said current EU migrants should be able to stay here.

    The only voices against have been Mr Hammond, and Ms May.

    Yes because they want to ensure the EU gives UK citizens in the EU the same rights before confirming.
    Really don't think it's necessary. There are ~1.2 million Brits in the EU and ~3.2 million EU citizens here. As we want an amicable divorce, I think it sets the wrong tone from the outset.
    lol, the wrong tone was set by Farage at the European Parliament last week.

    The European leaders are grown ups, they will see a negotiating tactic and not take it personally.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @elashton: Home Office minister James Brokenshire says he's unable to guarantee legal status of EU nationals living in UK in wake of Brexit

    @alexmassie: Well, yeah. When you fight a campaign on the basis there are "too many people here" this is going to happen. https://t.co/e8kSjh0duc

    You think?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,797
    edited July 2016
    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.

    You voted to Leave. Bit rich to hear you moralising now.
    All the Leave spokespeople have said current EU migrants should be able to stay here.

    The only voices against have been Mr Hammond, and Ms May.

    Yes because they want to ensure the EU gives UK citizens in the EU the same rights before confirming.
    It's a negotiation. Every assumption made is a potential weakness that can be exploited later
  • chrisoxon said:

    AndyJS said:

    Gove surely has to be value at 15/1 with Betfair. If he gets into the last three (and he almost certainly will) he's bound to come down to about half of that at least.

    I have to disagree Andy. I think Gove will go out without ever looking like winning, whether it is on the first or second ballot or by withdrawing.
    Gove would have shaken things up if he had said that he was standing until early 2019 only, in order to have an extended beauty parade for his successor. In the meantime, he would get on with Brexit.... He probably would still have been stuffed by knifing Boris, but it would at least have looked less self-serving.
    Worth remembering that the current incumbent of the oval office had no executive experience prior to running for President!
    ...and boy does it show!!!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,251

    I am perplexed by the view EU citizens here should have rights guaranteed unilaterally, without a corresponding guarantee in place for UK citizens in the EU.

    It's bizarre - as one MP rather tartly observed its a bit rich hearing all the BREXITeer's crocodile tears to the consequences of their win......
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,418
    Freggles said:

    BREAKING: TSE to resign, citing a desire to have his life back

    I had promised my employers, family, and bird that I wouldn't focus that much on politics post June 23rd for a few months.

    That's a plan that's worked out well.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016
    JonathanD said:

    John_M said:

    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.

    You voted to Leave. Bit rich to hear you moralising now.
    All the Leave spokespeople have said current EU migrants should be able to stay here.

    The only voices against have been Mr Hammond, and Ms May.

    Yes because they want to ensure the EU gives UK citizens in the EU the same rights before confirming.
    Really don't think it's necessary. There are ~1.2 million Brits in the EU and ~3.2 million EU citizens here. As we want an amicable divorce, I think it sets the wrong tone from the outset.
    lol, the wrong tone was set by Farage at the European Parliament last week.

    The European leaders are grown ups, they will see a negotiating tactic and not take it personally.
    Fuck the European leaders. What about the people? Are we seriously prepared to deport people? It's complete bollocks, and, as a second order effect, a gift for all the whiny, grieving remainers to get their knickers in a twist over.
  • chrisoxonchrisoxon Posts: 204

    Jobabob said:


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.

    You voted to Leave. Bit rich to hear you moralising now.
    I thought everyone on all sides agreed that existing residents' rights were protected by some convention or other. It isn't Labour Leave that is trying to backslide now, just the Nasty Party.
    I think you'll find that it is only the REMAIN supporting wing of the Conservatives that is refusing to rule out mass repatriation.

    The LEAVE wing of the party was clear that everyone should stay in advance of the referendum, and they are sticking to that line now.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,563

    Stuart seems to be suffering some kind of 'buyer's remorse". Suddenly the welfare of EU migrants is all of her biggest concern. I did say her demeanour seemed very bizarre throughout the campaign, as someone in a clear conflict or crisis ; simultaneously highly emotional and very disconnected.

    Yep, as I said early, she wouldn't need to be worrying about this if she hadn't lied our way out of the EU. Don't forget she happily sat on the bus with £350m for the NHS on the side and smiled sweetly as Boris and co rambled on about Turkey.
  • SandraMSandraM Posts: 206
    edited July 2016

    Jobabob said:

    So to summarise... A leader for hard times:

    (Snip)
    May – a teetotal 60-year-old lady with bags of experience who spends her holidays hill walking with her husband

    Damn! Why are the Conservatives even having an election? It's clear Mrs May is the ideal candidate and should become PM immediately!

    I wonder what her favourite Munro is? Or is she more of a downs-style lass?

    Seriously though, I remember Robin Cook was a serious walker (and I think he died on a hill). What other serious walking MPs are there?
    IIRC Labour leader John Smith was a serious walker and was attempting to complete all the Munros. He died of a heart attack.

  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120

    Jobabob said:

    So to summarise... A leader for hard times:

    (Snip)
    May – a teetotal 60-year-old lady with bags of experience who spends her holidays hill walking with her husband

    Damn! Why are the Conservatives even having an election? It's clear Mrs May is the ideal candidate and should become PM immediately!

    I wonder what her favourite Munro is? Or is she more of a downs-style lass?

    Seriously though, I remember Robin Cook was a serious walker (and I think he died on a hill). What other serious walking MPs are there?
    John Smith completed all the munros.

    And then he became leader and went back to eating chocolate.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    I am perplexed by the view EU citizens here should have rights guaranteed unilaterally, without a corresponding guarantee in place for UK citizens in the EU.

    As I understand it the guarantee already exists.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11698875/Emigration-Why-British-expats-have-nothing-to-fear-from-Brexit.html
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Miss Vance, not *all* the Brexiteers.

    A holding statement (nothing's changed for now and we hope a reciprocal arrangement can be negotiated) is fine. Guaranteeing rights for foreign citizens when ours have no corresponding guarantee is just stupid.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,563

    Jobabob said:

    So to summarise... A leader for hard times:

    (Snip)
    May – a teetotal 60-year-old lady with bags of experience who spends her holidays hill walking with her husband

    Damn! Why are the Conservatives even having an election? It's clear Mrs May is the ideal candidate and should become PM immediately!

    I wonder what her favourite Munro is? Or is she more of a downs-style lass?

    Seriously though, I remember Robin Cook was a serious walker (and I think he died on a hill). What other serious walking MPs are there?
    John Smith was one I believe. Took up Munros after his first heart attack IIRC.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    edited July 2016


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    SOTBO!!
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439
    chrisoxon said:

    Jobabob said:


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.

    You voted to Leave. Bit rich to hear you moralising now.
    I thought everyone on all sides agreed that existing residents' rights were protected by some convention or other. It isn't Labour Leave that is trying to backslide now, just the Nasty Party.
    I think you'll find that it is only the REMAIN supporting wing of the Conservatives that is refusing to rule out mass repatriation.

    The LEAVE wing of the party was clear that everyone should stay in advance of the referendum, and they are sticking to that line now.
    Because their position was that we get to leave the EU but everything else stays the same. It made no sense then and it makes no sense now.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,340
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.

    You voted to Leave. Bit rich to hear you moralising now.
    All the Leave spokespeople have said current EU migrants should be able to stay here.

    The only voices against have been Mr Hammond, and Ms May.

    Yes because they want to ensure the EU gives UK citizens in the EU the same rights before confirming.
    It's a negotiation. Every assumption made is a potential weakness that can be exploited later
    Indeed, could be a classic case of, well you may have confirmed it, we never did.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,563
    Scott_P said:

    All the Leave spokespeople have said current EU migrants should be able to stay here.

    The only voices against have been Mr Hammond, and Ms May.

    Only Hammond and May standing up for the rights of UK citizens abroad
    Leaving the EU seems a total mess already and we only at about day 9 of this. What a disaster.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    John_M said:

    JonathanD said:

    John_M said:

    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:


    A government minister has said it would be unwise to provide EU nationals with guaranteed UK status without a deal for UK citizens.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1721530/guaranteed-uk-status-for-eu-nationals-unwise

    Conservatives become "Send the buggers back" party.

    You voted to Leave. Bit rich to hear you moralising now.
    All the Leave spokespeople have said current EU migrants should be able to stay here.

    The only voices against have been Mr Hammond, and Ms May.

    Yes because they want to ensure the EU gives UK citizens in the EU the same rights before confirming.
    Really don't think it's necessary. There are ~1.2 million Brits in the EU and ~3.2 million EU citizens here. As we want an amicable divorce, I think it sets the wrong tone from the outset.
    lol, the wrong tone was set by Farage at the European Parliament last week.

    The European leaders are grown ups, they will see a negotiating tactic and not take it personally.
    Fuck the European leaders. What about the people? Are we seriously prepared to deport people? It's complete bollocks, and, as a second order effect, a gift for all the whiny, grieving remainers to get their knickers in a twist over.

    We're at breaking point don't you know? The decent hard working people of this country are at danger of being raped and assaulted by pillaging bands of immigrants. The government can't stand idly by and do nothing - no backsliding please.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Ashley Baker
    Everyone's quitting at the moment

    Chris Evans – Ginger
    David Cameron – Posh
    Roy Hodgson – Sporty
    Boris Johnson – Baby
    Nigel Farage – Scary
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    So to summarise... A leader for hard times:

    (Snip)
    May – a teetotal 60-year-old lady with bags of experience who spends her holidays hill walking with her husband

    Damn! Why are the Conservatives even having an election? It's clear Mrs May is the ideal candidate and should become PM immediately!

    I wonder what her favourite Munro is? Or is she more of a downs-style lass?

    Seriously though, I remember Robin Cook was a serious walker (and I think he died on a hill). What other serious walking MPs are there?
    I wish Corbyn would fucking walk
This discussion has been closed.