Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politics would look like if mainstream Tories had spent the last 25 years actually standing up for what they believed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.
Hugo Rifkind has a good article in The Times about what he calls "banter", by which he means politicians espousing views they don't really believe.
He's just reiterating what I said yesterday. Following the inevitable REMAIN win, the REMAINIACS (most especially in the Tory party) will own the EU. Defending the EU will have to be their thing, what they do, their speciality and metier, after all - they persuaded us to STAY. So they will have to explain why an EU army, EU taxes, EU hatred of kettles and Queens is good. No more pretending to be a bit UKIPPY.
There's no getting round this. Every single shitty thing the EU does will be hung round their treacherous necks, like those signs they draped over shamed academics in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, just before they got kicked to death by the kids.
Except by the time of the next General Election the leading Remainer will already be gone come what may. Within a decade or so the rest of the leading Remainers will be gone too. Think who we still have left from leading figures of 2006 around today? Nearly nobody in the 2006 Cabinet is still in the Labour Cabinet today.
It means Osborne has no chance. He is hated.
And I finally understand. I hate them, too: I hate everyone who votes for this fucking piece of shit EU. I hate these quisling pigs. TSE, Nabavi. Meeks. Hate them.
The Tories are the worse. But I cordially despise every pb REMAINIAC, I loathe them for the traitors they are. I HATE THEM.
I surprise myself by the sincerity and fierceness of my emotion. I guess it touches something atavistic and primordial: nationalism, identity, tribality, macho basic hominid stuff. I have become a frenzied Cybernat. It's not nice. Indeed it is ugly. Horrible.
Either way, this is really what I feel. Hatred. I will never meet a known PB REMAINIAC in person, ever, for fear I will smash them in the head. They turned on their own country. They are traitors. My only wish is that their every hope is turned to dust, in time.
Do you not think leave has a chance of still turning this around or is it really in the bag for remain
Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politics would look like if mainstream Tories had spent the last 25 years actually standing up for what they believed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.
Hugo Rifkind has a good article in The Times about what he calls "banter", by which he means politicians espousing views they don't really believe.
He's just reiterating what I said yesterday. Following the inevitable REMAIN win, the REMAINIACS (most especially in the Tory party) will own the EU. Defending the EU will have to be their thing, what they do, their speciality and metier, after all - they persuaded us to STAY. So they will have to explain why an EU army, EU taxes, EU hatred of kettles and Queens is good. No more pretending to be a bit UKIPPY.
There's no getting round this. Every single shitty thing the EU does will be hung round their treacherous necks, like those signs they draped over shamed academics in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, just before they got kicked to death by the kids.
Except by the time of the next General Election the leading Remainer will already be gone come what may. Within a decade or so the rest of the leading Remainers will be gone too. Think who we still have left from leading figures of 2006 around today? Nearly nobody in the 2006 Cabinet is still in the Labour Cabinet today.
It means Osborne has no chance. He is hated.
And I finally understand. I hate them, too: I hate everyone who votes for this fucking piece of shit EU. I hate these quisling pigs. TSE, Nabavi. Meeks. Hate them.
The Tories are the worse. But I cordially despise every pb REMAINIAC, I loathe them for the traitors they are. I HATE THEM.
I surprise myself by the sincerity and fierceness of my emotion. I guess it touches something atavistic and primordial: nationalism, identity, tribality, macho basic hominid stuff. I have become a frenzied Cybernat. It's not nice. Indeed it is ugly. Horrible.
Either way, this is really what I feel. Hatred. I will never meet a known PB REMAINIAC in person, ever, for fear I will smash them in the head. They turned on their own country. They are traitors. My only wish is that their every hope is turned to dust, in time.
Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politics would look like if mainstream Tories had spent the last 25 years actually standing up for what they believed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.
Hugo Rifkind has a good article in The Times about what he calls "banter", by which he means politicians espousing views they don't really believe.
He predicts this referendum should see it's end
That will be tackling the banter. It’s got to go, even if that means some Tories go with it. If nothing else, it simply won’t work any more. No longer will ministers be able to score easy points by pandering to an insidious, tolerated ideal of a Britain that goes it alone. No longer will they be able to keep the party’s right away from Ukip by intimating, albeit with coy and smirking deniability, that they’re all on the same side. They aren’t. They never were, and finally they’ll have to be honest about it. The banter boat has sailed.
He's just reiterating what I said yesterday. Following the inevitable REMAIN win, the REMAINIACS (most especially in the Tory party) will own the EU. Defending the EU will have to be their thing, what they do, their speciality and metier, after all - they persuaded us to STAY. So they will have to explain why an EU army, EU taxes, EU hatred of kettles and Queens is good. No more pretending to be a bit UKIPPY.
There's no getting round this. Every single shitty thing the EU does will be hung round their treacherous necks, like those signs they draped over shamed academics in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, just before they got kicked to death by the kids.
Except by the time of the next General Election the leading Remainer will already be gone come what may. Within a decade or so the rest of the leading Remainers will be gone too. Think who we still have left from leading figures of 2006 around today? Nearly nobody in the 2006 Cabinet is still in the Labour Cabinet today.
Erm, much of the 2006 Labour Cabinet were still the cabinet in 2010. And the Chancellor in 2006 was the PM in 2010....
So in 2020 much of them will still be around, but I'm willing to metaphorically bet we won't have an EU army by 2020. By the time that comes around (if it does) it will be new faces.
Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politics would look like if mainstream Tories had spent the last 25 years actually standing up for what they believed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.
Hugo Rifkind has a good article in The Times about what he calls "banter", by which he means politicians espousing views they don't really believe.
He's just reiterating what I said yesterday. Following the inevitable REMAIN win, the REMAINIACS (most especially in the Tory party) will own the EU. Defending the EU will have to be their thing, what they do, their speciality and metier, after all - they persuaded us to STAY. So they will have to explain why an EU army, EU taxes, EU hatred of kettles and Queens is good. No more pretending to be a bit UKIPPY.
There's no getting round this. Every single shitty thing the EU does will be hung round their treacherous necks, like those signs they draped over shamed academics in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, just before they got kicked to death by the kids.
Except by the time of the next General Election the leading Remainer will already be gone come what may. Within a decade or so the rest of the leading Remainers will be gone too. Think who we still have left from leading figures of 2006 around today? Nearly nobody in the 2006 Cabinet is still in the Labour Cabinet today.
It means Osborne has no chance. He is hated.
And I finally understand. I hate them, too: I hate everyone who votes for this fucking piece of shit EU. I hate these quisling pigs. TSE, Nabavi. Meeks. Hate them.
The Tories are the worse. But I cordially despise every pb REMAINIAC, I loathe them for the traitors they are. I HATE THEM.
I surprise myself by the sincerity and fierceness of my emotion. I guess it touches something atavistic and primordial: nationalism, identity, tribality, macho basic hominid stuff. I have become a frenzied Cybernat. It's not nice. Indeed it is ugly. Horrible.
Either way, this is really what I feel. Hatred. I will never meet a known PB REMAINIAC in person, ever, for fear I will smash them in the head. They turned on their own country. They are traitors. My only wish is that their every hope is turned to dust, in time.
If you feel this passionate about it, why aren't you out campaigning for Leave?
I mean as per your analogy, if you're not campaigning for Leave, you're in fact a Quisling collaborator.
That's right - over 60% Remain is now as likely as Leave winning!
In fact, it's MORE likely - as over 65% is shorter odds than under 45%.
The risk for Leave supporters in the Conservative Party is that it turns into a rout - if it's over 60% then they will look very silly if they throw their toys out of the pram.
Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politicsed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.
Hugo Rifkind has a good article in The Times about what he calls "banter", by which he means politicians espousing views they don't really believe.
He's just reiterating what I said yesterday. Following the inevitable REMAIN win, the REMAINIACS (most especially in the Tory party) will own the EU. Defending the EU will have to be their thing, what they do, their speciality and metier, after all - they persuaded us to STAY. So they will have to explain why an EU army, EU taxes, EU hatred of kettles and Queens is good. No more pretending to be a bit UKIPPY.
There's no getting round this. Every single shitty thing the EU does will be hung round their treacherous necks, like those signs they draped over shamed academics in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, just before they got kicked to death by the kids.
Except by the time of the next General Election the leading Remainer will already be gone come what may. Within a decade or so the rest of the leading Remainers will be gone too. Think who we still have left from leading figures of 2006 around today? Nearly nobody in the 2006 Cabinet is still in the Labour Cabinet today.
It means Osborne has no chance. He is hated.
And I finally understand. I hate them, too: I hate everyone who votes for this fucking piece of shit EU. I hate these quisling pigs. TSE, Nabavi. Meeks. Hate them.
The Tories are the worse. But I cordially despise every pb REMAINIAC, I loathe them for the traitors they are. I HATE THEM.
I surprise myself by the sincerity and fierceness of my emotion. I guess it touches something atavistic and primordial: nationalism, identity, tribality, macho basic hominid stuff. I have become a frenzied Cybernat. It's not nice. Indeed it is ugly. Horrible.
Either way, this is really what I feel. Hatred. I will never meet a known PB REMAINIAC in person, ever, for fear I will smash them in the head. They turned on their own country. They are traitors. My only wish is that their every hope is turned to dust, in time.
If you feel this passionate about it, why aren't you out campaigning for Leave?
I mean as per your analogy, if you're not campaigning for Leave, you're in fact a Quisling collaborator.
Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politics would look like if mainstream Tories had spent the last 25 years actually standing up for what they believed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.
Hugo Rifkind has a good article in The Times about what he calls "banter", by which he means politicians espousing views they don't really believe.
He's just reiterating what I said yesterday. Following the inevitable REMAIN win, the REMAINIACS (most especially in the Tory party) will own the EU. Defending the EU will have to be their thing, what they do, their speciality and metier, after all - they persuaded us to STAY. So they will have to explain why an EU army, EU taxes, EU hatred of kettles and Queens is good. No more pretending to be a bit UKIPPY.
There's no getting round this. Every single shitty thing the EU does will be hung round their treacherous necks, like those signs they draped over shamed academics in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, just before they got kicked to death by the kids.
Except by the time of the next General Election the leading Remainer will already be gone come what may. Within a decade or so the rest of the leading Remainers will be gone too. Think who we still have left from leading figures of 2006 around today? Nearly nobody in the 2006 Cabinet is still in the Labour Cabinet today.
It means Osborne has no chance. He is hated.
If you feel this passionate about it, why aren't you out campaigning for Leave?
I mean as per your analogy, if you're not campaigning for Leave, you're in fact a Quisling collaborator.
You're a traitor.
So, I take that you're not campaigning for Leave.
Gird your loins, and knock up the voters in Cornwall, you'll enjoy it.
Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politics would look like if mainstream Tories had spent the last 25 years actually standing up for what they believed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.
Hugo Rifkind has a good article in The Times about what he calls "banter", by which he means politicians espousing views they don't really believe.
He's just reiterating what I said yesterday. Following the inevitable REMAIN win, the REMAINIACS (most especially in the Tory party) will own the EU. Defending the EU will have to be their thing, what they do, their speciality and metier, after all - they persuaded us to STAY. So they will have to explain why an EU army, EU taxes, EU hatred of kettles and Queens is good. No more pretending to be a bit UKIPPY.
There's no getting round this. Every single shitty thing the EU does will be hung round their treacherous necks, like those signs they draped over shamed academics in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, just before they got kicked to death by the kids.
Except by the time of the next General Election the leading Remainer will already be gone come what may. Within a decade or so the rest of the leading Remainers will be gone too. Think who we still have left from leading figures of 2006 around today? Nearly nobody in the 2006 Cabinet is still in the Labour Cabinet today.
It means Osborne has no chance. He is hated.
If you feel this passionate about it, why aren't you out campaigning for Leave?
I mean as per your analogy, if you're not campaigning for Leave, you're in fact a Quisling collaborator.
You're a traitor.
On TSE,Why not just call him Mark reckless of PB,was in the leave camp for weeks then jumps ship.
Reckless is more of a insult to him than traitor ;-)
That's right - over 60% Remain is now as likely as Leave winning!
In fact, it's MORE likely - as over 65% is shorter odds than under 45%.
The risk for Leave supporters in the Conservative Party is that it turns into a rout - if it's over 60% then they will look very silly if they throw their toys out of the pram.
Over 60% would be an EU triumph, after today's Austria vote the best news Brussels has had in ages and would be used as a mandate to integrate the UK in further. While I cannot see Leave winning now I don't think Remain will do that well either, 50 to 55% Remain is my best guess. Goodnight
Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politics would look like if mainstream Tories had spent the last 25 years actually standing up for what they believed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.
Hugo Rifkind has a good article in The Times about what he calls "banter", by which he means politicians espousing views they don't really believe.
He's just reiterating what I said yesterday. Following the inevitable REMAIN win, the REMAINIACS (most especially in the Tory party) will own the EU. Defending the EU will have to be their thing, what they do, their speciality and metier, after all - they persuaded us to STAY. So they will have to explain why an EU army, EU taxes, EU hatred of kettles and Queens is good. No more pretending to be a bit UKIPPY.
There's no getting round this. Every single shitty thing the EU does will be hung round their treacherous necks, like those signs they draped over shamed academics in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, just before they got kicked to death by the kids.
Except by the time of the next General Election the leading Remainer will already be gone come what may. Within a decade or so the rest of the leading Remainers will be gone too. Think who we still have left from leading figures of 2006 around today? Nearly nobody in the 2006 Cabinet is still in the Labour Cabinet today.
It means Osborne has no chance. He is hated.
If you feel this passionate about it, why aren't you out campaigning for Leave?
I mean as per your analogy, if you're not campaigning for Leave, you're in fact a Quisling collaborator.
You're a traitor.
Your right anyone voting for remain is voting for the erosion of parliamentary democracy and the end of the nation state. Farage rightly said that the EU isn't undemocratic it is ANTI democratic. to vote remain is to betray everything this country has ever stood for freedom of speech, freedom of religion ,freedom of thought, a sovereign parliament and the right to make our own laws and the principle of Government being there to serve the people not the government being the master for us to serve which is what the EU wants. The EU elite hate democracy and giving people choice. So yes, a traitor they are.
Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politics would look like if mainstream Tories had spent the last 25 years actually standing up for what they believed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.
Hugo Rifkind has a good article in The Times about what he calls "banter", by which he means politicians espousing views they don't really believe.
He's just reiterating what I said yesterday. Following the inevitable REMAIN win, the REMAINIACS (most especially in the Tory party) will own the EU. Defending the EU will have to be their thing, what they do, their speciality and metier, after all - they persuaded us to STAY. So they will have to explain why an EU army, EU taxes, EU hatred of kettles and Queens is good. No more pretending to be a bit UKIPPY.
There's no getting round this. Every single shitty thing the EU does will be hung round their treacherous necks, like those signs they draped over shamed academics in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, just before they got kicked to death by the kids.
Except by the time of the next General Election the leading Remainer will already be gone come what may. Within a decade or so the rest of the leading Remainers will be gone too. Think who we still have left from leading figures of 2006 around today? Nearly nobody in the 2006 Cabinet is still in the Labour Cabinet today.
It means Osborne has no chance. He is hated.
If you feel this passionate about it, why aren't you out campaigning for Leave?
I mean as per your analogy, if you're not campaigning for Leave, you're in fact a Quisling collaborator.
You're a traitor.
On TSE,Why not just call him Mark reckless of PB,was in the leave camp for weeks then jumps ship.
Reckless is more of a insult to him than traitor ;-)
Yep. I would suggest that when this is all over we have a vote for TSE forever more to be referred to as TPD. It would be a fitting punishment for his betrayal.
It keeps limping on. Like a wounded animal. With no vet to put it down. Left to die a long horrible death.
And yet the Leavers assure us that there will be ever-closer union whereby the Eurozone countries will be able to gang up, integrate further, and boss us around whether we like it or not.
It is the only way the Eurozone will be able to survive. They have always found a political solution to what appear to be insurmountable problems. Indeed they use seemingly insurmountable problems as an excuse for more political union. This time will be no different, except of course that the political solution will have to be more drastic because the economic problems are so severe.
And that's the leverage that the UK needs to write Cameron's deal - and potentially more besides - into Treaty law. The EZ countries will accept a formalised semi-detached relationship for Britain, Denmark and possibly others if the quid pro quo is that they get the political tools they need.
My mother is 94 and has indicated that she would be inclined to vote Remain .... But, she'd need my help to vote (she's frail and almost blind) and no way will I support her voting. My theory is that her calculating mind is worried that Brexit might affect her various state pensions/Attendance Allowance/Full Council Tax Rebate. So, she won't vote.
Really? I've helped disabled Tories to vote - I think that if people want to, they should be helped to take part if needed. The probability that the outcome is a Remain majority of 1 is negligible, the probability that you'll give your mum some pleasure reasonably high.
I have 3800 Twitter followers. I canvass them, every day. I am writing a few eurosceptic pieces for the Spectator. I do my limited best.
But most of all I am voting LEAVE, even though it will financially hurt me, if LEAVE wins. Why? Because, unlike you, I am not a fatted sow, wallowing in the faeces of my own selfishness. Unlike you, I will not betray my beloved country. Unlike you, I could not live with myself.
Even your insults are ineffective, and twitter lol. Did you not learn anything about the campaigning from the last election?
Good article, Don. Jeremy is actually not often in hate-the-past mode (unlike some of his supporters), but it'd be good if he highlighted the things he agreed with.
Thought experiment: if the legion of Tories here who declare that they're disgusted with the Government, will never vote for them again, think they're lying gits, etc., had the 2015 eleciton over again, how many of them would vote for Miliband instead?
It keeps limping on. Like a wounded animal. With no vet to put it down. Left to die a long horrible death.
And yet the Leavers assure us that there will be ever-closer union whereby the Eurozone countries will be able to gang up, integrate further, and boss us around whether we like it or not.
It is the only way the Eurozone will be able to survive. They have always found a political solution to what appear to be insurmountable problems. Indeed they use seemingly insurmountable problems as an excuse for more political union. This time will be no different, except of course that the political solution will have to be more drastic because the economic problems are so severe.
And that's the leverage that the UK needs to write Cameron's deal - and potentially more besides - into Treaty law. The EZ countries will accept a formalised semi-detached relationship for Britain, Denmark and possibly others if the quid pro quo is that they get the political tools they need.
LOL! You don't actually think the minor concessions Cameron achieved in the negotiation will ever go anywhere after the referendum do you?
Cameron isn't serious in the slightest about any of this. A form "semi-detached" relationship between the UK and EU for Britain? You're having a laugh.
Within six months it'll back to business as usual, I.E. more "integration" for the UK and as we'll have voted to REMAIN we'll just have to shut up and do what we're told.
Good article, Don. Jeremy is actually not often in hate-the-past mode (unlike some of his supporters), but it'd be good if he highlighted the things he agreed with.
Thought experiment: if the legion of Tories here who declare that they're disgusted with the Government, will never vote for them again, think they're lying gits, etc., had the 2015 eleciton over again, how many of them would vote for Miliband instead?
GIN, maybe? - not sure if others would.
Few, UKIP on the other hand much more likely, the EU is Cameron's Iraq moment with UKIP being Tories' party of protest as the LDs were for Labour voters
Good article, Don. Jeremy is actually not often in hate-the-past mode (unlike some of his supporters), but it'd be good if he highlighted the things he agreed with.
Thought experiment: if the legion of Tories here who declare that they're disgusted with the Government, will never vote for them again, think they're lying gits, etc., had the 2015 eleciton over again, how many of them would vote for Miliband instead?
GIN, maybe? - not sure if others would.
That's a tough one, If I'd known how Cameron's "renegotiation" was going to turn out I certainly wouldn't have voted for him...
Would I have voted for Miliband or just done what I did in 2001 and sit it out. I'm not sure?
ORB find remain 8 ahead among pensioners. All bar one of the other pollsters have leave well ahead and by 25 or more points in several cases.
Who knows who is right?
One thing's for sure - there must be an immense amount of bollocks in the polls.
Some of them need to be run out of town.
You saying that men are over-represented? I thought they were more likely to vote Leave?
I'm saying the poll is possibly a load of cobblers.
The vast majority of polls are finding leave well ahead with pensioners - either online or on the telephone. ORB haven't.
The disparity of findings among the pollsters should mean that some are laughed out of town and never given an airing again when the final result is known.
I know OGH doesn't like calling them out, but from a betting perspective a pollster's credibility is critical in determining whether to back on the basis of their findings.
It keeps limping on. Like a wounded animal. With no vet to put it down. Left to die a long horrible death.
And yet the Leavers assure us that there will be ever-closer union whereby the Eurozone countries will be able to gang up, integrate further, and boss us around whether we like it or not.
It is the only way the Eurozone will be able to survive. They have always found a political solution to what appear to be insurmountable problems. Indeed they use seemingly insurmountable problems as an excuse for more political union. This time will be no different, except of course that the political solution will have to be more drastic because the economic problems are so severe.
And that's the leverage that the UK needs to write Cameron's deal - and potentially more besides - into Treaty law. The EZ countries will accept a formalised semi-detached relationship for Britain, Denmark and possibly others if the quid pro quo is that they get the political tools they need.
LOL! You don't actually think the minor concessions Cameron achieved in the negotiation will ever go anywhere after the referendum do you?
Cameron isn't serious in the slightest about any of this. A form "semi-detached" relationship between the UK and EU for Britain? You're having a laugh.
Within six months it'll back to business as usual, I.E. more "integration" for the UK and as we'll have voted to REMAIN we'll just have to shut up and do what we're told.
Cameron's authority within the Tory Party is shot. What he wants is largely beside the point. But if the EZ needs more institutional power then it needs a treaty, and if it needs a treaty then we have a veto. Besides, I can't believe that the EU actually want us whinging all the time - wouldn't it just be easier all round just to give us our own room to play in?
Actually, these next five years could see a major change in EU thinking. Not a voluntary one from the likes of Juncker but one forced on them by the national politicians under threat from the likes of FPO, FN, AfD and so on.
Tonight's Newsnight exposed why the theory that DKs will back remain is probably correct. At the end of their three part series the panel split 7-1 in favour of Remain. They admitted though that they still didn't fully grasp all the arguments. However the default position that these voters will therefore play safe was born out.
It keeps limping on. Like a wounded animal. With no vet to put it down. Left to die a long horrible death.
And yet the Leavers assure us that there will be ever-closer union whereby the Eurozone countries will be able to gang up, integrate further, and boss us around whether we like it or not.
It is the only way the Eurozone will be able to survive. They have always found a political solution to what appear to be insurmountable problems. Indeed they use seemingly insurmountable problems as an excuse for more political union. This time will be no different, except of course that the political solution will have to be more drastic because the economic problems are so severe.
And that's the leverage that the UK needs to write Cameron's deal - and potentially more besides - into Treaty law. The EZ countries will accept a formalised semi-detached relationship for Britain, Denmark and possibly others if the quid pro quo is that they get the political tools they need.
LOL! You don't actually think the minor concessions Cameron achieved in the negotiation will ever go anywhere after the referendum do you?
Cameron isn't serious in the slightest about any of this. A form "semi-detached" relationship between the UK and EU for Britain? You're having a laugh.
Within six months it'll back to business as usual, I.E. more "integration" for the UK and as we'll have voted to REMAIN we'll just have to shut up and do what we're told.
Cameron's authority within the Tory Party is shot. What he wants is largely beside the point. But if the EZ needs more institutional power then it needs a treaty, and if it needs a treaty then we have a veto. Besides, I can't believe that the EU actually want us whinging all the time - wouldn't it just be easier all round just to give us our own room to play in?
Actually, these next five years could see a major change in EU thinking. Not a voluntary one from the likes of Juncker but one forced on them by the national politicians under threat from the likes of FPO, FN, AfD and so on.
The problem here is that the likes of Juncker et al just don't give a sh!t about democracy. They will keep ploughing their own furrow with the leavers of EU power they have.
Tonight's Newsnight exposed why the theory that DKs will back remain is probably correct. At the end of their three part series the panel split 7-1 in favour of Remain. They admitted though that they still didn't fully grasp all the arguments. However the default position that these voters will therefore play safe was born out.
True to a point but they hard a hard grilling tonight from remain with a fairly ineffective leave panel. May work out that way but we will see.
It keeps limping on. Like a wounded animal. With no vet to put it down. Left to die a long horrible death.
And yet the Leavers assure us that there will be ever-closer union whereby the Eurozone countries will be able to gang up, integrate further, and boss us around whether we like it or not.
It is the only way the Eurozone will be able to survive. They have always found a political solution to what appear to be insurmountable problems. Indeed they use seemingly insurmountable problems as an excuse for more political union. This time will be no different, except of course that the political solution will have to be more drastic because the economic problems are so severe.
And that's the leverage that the UK needs to write Cameron's deal - and potentially more besides - into Treaty law. The EZ countries will accept a formalised semi-detached relationship for Britain, Denmark and possibly others if the quid pro quo is that they get the political tools they need.
LOL! You don't actually think the minor concessions Cameron achieved in the negotiation will ever go anywhere after the referendum do you?
Cameron isn't serious in the slightest about any of this. A form "semi-detached" relationship between the UK and EU for Britain? You're having a laugh.
Within six months it'll back to business as usual, I.E. more "integration" for the UK and as we'll have voted to REMAIN we'll just have to shut up and do what we're told.
Cameron's authority within the Tory Party is shot. What he wants is largely beside the point. But if the EZ needs more institutional power then it needs a treaty, and if it needs a treaty then we have a veto. Besides, I can't believe that the EU actually want us whinging all the time - wouldn't it just be easier all round just to give us our own room to play in?
Actually, these next five years could see a major change in EU thinking. Not a voluntary one from the likes of Juncker but one forced on them by the national politicians under threat from the likes of FPO, FN, AfD and so on.
The problem here is that the likes of Juncker et al just don't give a sh!t about democracy. They will keep ploughing their own furrow with the leavers of EU power they have.
No, they don't. But those levers get quite sticky without the consent of the national politicians and particularly the French and Germans.
It keeps limping on. Like a wounded animal. With no vet to put it down. Left to die a long horrible death.
And yet the Leavers assure us that there will be ever-closer union whereby the Eurozone countries will be able to gang up, integrate further, and boss us around whether we like it or not.
It is the only way the Eurozone will be able to survive. They have always found a political solution to what appear to be insurmountable problems. Indeed they use seemingly insurmountable problems as an excuse for more political union. This time will be no different, except of course that the political solution will have to be more drastic because the economic problems are so severe.
And that's the leverage that the UK needs to write Cameron's deal - and potentially more besides - into Treaty law. The EZ countries will accept a formalised semi-detached relationship for Britain, Denmark and possibly others if the quid pro quo is that they get the political tools they need.
LOL! You don't actually think the minor concessions Cameron achieved in the negotiation will ever go anywhere after the referendum do you?
Cameron isn't serious in the slightest about any of this. A form "semi-detached" relationship between the UK and EU for Britain? You're having a laugh.
Within six months it'll back to business as usual, I.E. more "integration" for the UK and as we'll have voted to REMAIN we'll just have to shut up and do what we're told.
Cameron's authority within the Tory Party is shot. What he wants is largely beside the point. But if the EZ needs more institutional power then it needs a treaty, and if it needs a treaty then we have a veto. Besides, I can't believe that the EU actually want us whinging all the time - wouldn't it just be easier all round just to give us our own room to play in?
Actually, these next five years could see a major change in EU thinking. Not a voluntary one from the likes of Juncker but one forced on them by the national politicians under threat from the likes of FPO, FN, AfD and so on.
The problem here is that the likes of Juncker et al just don't give a sh!t about democracy. They will keep ploughing their own furrow with the leavers of EU power they have.
No, they don't. But those levers get quite sticky without the consent of the national politicians and particularly the French and Germans.
I see what you are saying... But French and German establishment are part of the same block, end Euro is the biggest problem. So it's a big bloody mess.
Good article, Don. Jeremy is actually not often in hate-the-past mode (unlike some of his supporters), but it'd be good if he highlighted the things he agreed with.
Thought experiment: if the legion of Tories here who declare that they're disgusted with the Government, will never vote for them again, think they're lying gits, etc., had the 2015 eleciton over again, how many of them would vote for Miliband instead?
GIN, maybe? - not sure if others would.
Few, UKIP on the other hand much more likely, the EU is Cameron's Iraq moment with UKIP being Tories' party of protest as the LDs were for Labour voters
The difference is that the Lib Dems surged to gaining 11 net extra seats in 2005 from those protest votes (though it lost 5 then in 2010 and let's not even mention 2015) whereas there's slim to nil chance of UKIP winning 11 extra seats in 2020.
Good article, Don. Jeremy is actually not often in hate-the-past mode (unlike some of his supporters), but it'd be good if he highlighted the things he agreed with.
Thought experiment: if the legion of Tories here who declare that they're disgusted with the Government, will never vote for them again, think they're lying gits, etc., had the 2015 eleciton over again, how many of them would vote for Miliband instead?
GIN, maybe? - not sure if others would.
Few, UKIP on the other hand much more likely, the EU is Cameron's Iraq moment with UKIP being Tories' party of protest as the LDs were for Labour voters
The difference is that the Lib Dems surged to gaining 11 net extra seats in 2005 from those protest votes (though it lost 5 then in 2010 and let's not even mention 2015) whereas there's slim to nil chance of UKIP winning 11 extra seats in 2020.
Thing is though they get to know where their support is and could try to do an SNP.
Hosie resignation from Deputy Leader of Party: 'Right decision'
Hosie non-resignation from Deputy Leader of Westminster MPs:'We've moved on'
Stewart has been a great deputy leader of the SNP, and I am sorry he will not be deputy leader after our conference in the autumn. "But he has taken a decision that in the interests of his family and his health it is right that he steps down, and I support him in that decision. I think in all the circumstances he is making the right decision." Asked if Mr Hosie should also stand down from his Westminster role, Ms Sturgeon said: "I don't think that's the case. "I think we've moved on and moved on quite some distance from the sense that personal issues, issues relating to someone's private marriage and private life necessarily affect someone's ability to do their job."
Good article, Don. Jeremy is actually not often in hate-the-past mode (unlike some of his supporters), but it'd be good if he highlighted the things he agreed with.
Thought experiment: if the legion of Tories here who declare that they're disgusted with the Government, will never vote for them again, think they're lying gits, etc., had the 2015 eleciton over again, how many of them would vote for Miliband instead?
GIN, maybe? - not sure if others would.
Few, UKIP on the other hand much more likely, the EU is Cameron's Iraq moment with UKIP being Tories' party of protest as the LDs were for Labour voters
The difference is that the Lib Dems surged to gaining 11 net extra seats in 2005 from those protest votes (though it lost 5 then in 2010 and let's not even mention 2015) whereas there's slim to nil chance of UKIP winning 11 extra seats in 2020.
Thing is though they get to know where their support is and could try to do an SNP.
Going into indyref the SNP had been in power at Holyrood for six years and was a formidable electoral machine with decades of hard-won experience behind it. UKIP, not so much. It's not so easy to do an SNP.
It keeps limping on. Like a wounded animal. With no vet to put it down. Left to die a long horrible death.
And yet the Leavers assure us that there will be ever-closer union whereby the Eurozone countries will be able to gang up, integrate further, and boss us around whether we like it or not.
It is the only way the Eurozone will be able to survive. They have always found a political solution to what appear to be insurmountable problems. Indeed they use seemingly insurmountable problems as an excuse for more political union. This time will be no different, except of course that the political solution will have to be more drastic because the economic problems are so severe.
And that's the leverage that the UK needs to write Cameron's deal - and potentially more besides - into Treaty law. The EZ countries will accept a formalised semi-detached relationship for Britain, Denmark and possibly others if the quid pro quo is that they get the political tools they need.
LOL! You don't actually think the minor concessions Cameron achieved in the negotiation will ever go anywhere after the referendum do you?
Cameron isn't serious in the slightest about any of this. A form "semi-detached" relationship between the UK and EU for Britain? You're having a laugh.
Within six months it'll back to business as usual, I.E. more "integration" for the UK and as we'll have voted to REMAIN we'll just have to shut up and do what we're told.
Cameron's authority within the Tory Party is shot. What he wants is largely beside the point. But if the EZ needs more institutional power then it needs a treaty, and if it needs a treaty then we have a veto. Besides, I can't believe that the EU actually want us whinging all the time - wouldn't it just be easier all round just to give us our own room to play in?
Actually, these next five years could see a major change in EU thinking. Not a voluntary one from the likes of Juncker but one forced on them by the national politicians under threat from the likes of FPO, FN, AfD and so on.
It has been a while since I have looked at the contents of Dave's "deal", but I thought he gave up the veto for future treaties/EU integration?
Tonight's Newsnight exposed why the theory that DKs will back remain is probably correct. At the end of their three part series the panel split 7-1 in favour of Remain. They admitted though that they still didn't fully grasp all the arguments. However the default position that these voters will therefore play safe was born out.
True to a point but they hard a hard grilling tonight from remain with a fairly ineffective leave panel. May work out that way but we will see.
Not sure about that. Even my broadly pro Remain viewpoint was tested somewhat by a remain team who consisted of a tetchy Chuka, Jonathan Powell and his rather smug eurocrat "interviewee" and an equally unattractive Irish diplomat. Whereas Andrea Leadsom was very good for Leave . But still Leave lost the panel of DKs and that's the nub.
Hosie resignation from Deputy Leader of Party: 'Right decision'
Hosie non-resignation from Deputy Leader of Westminster MPs:'We've moved on'
Stewart has been a great deputy leader of the SNP, and I am sorry he will not be deputy leader after our conference in the autumn. "But he has taken a decision that in the interests of his family and his health it is right that he steps down, and I support him in that decision. I think in all the circumstances he is making the right decision." Asked if Mr Hosie should also stand down from his Westminster role, Ms Sturgeon said: "I don't think that's the case. "I think we've moved on and moved on quite some distance from the sense that personal issues, issues relating to someone's private marriage and private life necessarily affect someone's ability to do their job."
Hosie resignation from Deputy Leader of Party: 'Right decision'
Hosie non-resignation from Deputy Leader of Westminster MPs:'We've moved on'
Stewart has been a great deputy leader of the SNP, and I am sorry he will not be deputy leader after our conference in the autumn. "But he has taken a decision that in the interests of his family and his health it is right that he steps down, and I support him in that decision. I think in all the circumstances he is making the right decision." Asked if Mr Hosie should also stand down from his Westminster role, Ms Sturgeon said: "I don't think that's the case. "I think we've moved on and moved on quite some distance from the sense that personal issues, issues relating to someone's private marriage and private life necessarily affect someone's ability to do their job."
Hosie resignation from Deputy Leader of Party: 'Right decision'
Hosie non-resignation from Deputy Leader of Westminster MPs:'We've moved on'
Stewart has been a great deputy leader of the SNP, and I am sorry he will not be deputy leader after our conference in the autumn. "But he has taken a decision that in the interests of his family and his health it is right that he steps down, and I support him in that decision. I think in all the circumstances he is making the right decision." Asked if Mr Hosie should also stand down from his Westminster role, Ms Sturgeon said: "I don't think that's the case. "I think we've moved on and moved on quite some distance from the sense that personal issues, issues relating to someone's private marriage and private life necessarily affect someone's ability to do their job."
My mother is 94 and has indicated that she would be inoutcome oto vote Remain .... But, she'd need my help to vote (she's frail and almost blind) and no way will I support her voting. My theory is that her calculating mind is worried that Brexit might affect her various state pensions/Attendance Allowance/Full Council Tax Rebate. So, she won't vote.
Really? I've helped disabled Tories to vote - I think that if people want to, they should be helped to take part if needed. The probability that the outcome is a Remain majority of 1 is negligible, the probability that you'll give your mum some pleasure reasonably high.
Well said Nick Palmer, on both counts. I didn't bother to vote for Zac despite having had a sizeable bet on him many months ago. Betting on the outcome of political elections and the like will not have a happy ending for those feeling the need to make their own or loved ones vote matter.
Tonight's Newsnight exposed why the theory that DKs will back remain is probably correct. At the end of their three part series the panel split 7-1 in favour of Remain. They admitted though that they still didn't fully grasp all the arguments. However the default position that these voters will therefore play safe was born out.
Mysterious all round. I liked the woman (voices off) who doesn't want the unemployed to have access to eggs. Or possibly she didn't believe he was unemployed, and was a paid egg handler (in the pay of Boris? Putin?).
Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politics would look like if mainstream Tories had spent the last 25 years actually standing up for what they believed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.
Hugo Rifkind has a good article in The Times about what he calls "banter", by which he means politicians espousing views they don't really believe.
He's just reiterating what I said yesterday. Following the inevitable REMAIN win, the REMAINIACS (most especially in the Tory party) will own the EU. Defending the EU will have to be their thing, what they do, their speciality and metier, after all - they persuaded us to STAY. So they will have to explain why an EU army, EU taxes, EU hatred of kettles and Queens is good. No more pretending to be a bit UKIPPY.
There's no getting round this. Every single shitty thing the EU does will be hung round their treacherous necks, like those signs they draped over shamed academics in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, just before they got kicked to death by the kids.
Except by the time of the next General Election the leading Remainer will already be gone come what may. Within a decade or so the rest of the leading Remainers will be gone too. Think who we still have left from leading figures of 2006 around today? Nearly nobody in the 2006 Cabinet is still in the Labour Cabinet today.
It means Osborne has no chance. He is hated.
And I finally understand. I hate them, too: I hate everyone who votes for this fucking piece of shit EU. I hate these quisling pigs. TSE, Nabavi. Meeks. Hate them.
The Tories are the worse. But I cordially despise every pb REMAINIAC, I loathe them for the traitors they are. I HATE THEM.
I surprise myself by the sincerity and fierceness of my emotion. I guess it touches something atavistic and primordial: nationalism, identity, tribality, macho basic hominid stuff. I have become a frenzied Cybernat. It's not nice. Indeed it is ugly. Horrible.
Either way, this is really what I feel. Hatred. I will never meet a known PB REMAINIAC in person, ever, for fear I will smash them in the head. They turned on their own country. They are traitors. My only wish is that their every hope is turned to dust, in time.
Even among some of the demented posts we've seen on here over the years this takes some beating.
Good article, Don. Jeremy is actually not often in hate-the-past mode (unlike some of his supporters), but it'd be good if he highlighted the things he agreed with.
Thought experiment: if the legion of Tories here who declare that they're disgusted with the Government, will never vote for them again, think they're lying gits, etc., had the 2015 eleciton over again, how many of them would vote for Miliband instead?
GIN, maybe? - not sure if others would.
Few, UKIP on the other hand much more likely, the EU is Cameron's Iraq moment with UKIP being Tories' party of protest as the LDs were for Labour voters
The difference is that the Lib Dems surged to gaining 11 net extra seats in 2005 from those protest votes (though it lost 5 then in 2010 and let's not even mention 2015) whereas there's slim to nil chance of UKIP winning 11 extra seats in 2020.
Good article, Don. Jeremy is actually not often in hate-the-past mode (unlike some of his supporters), but it'd be good if he highlighted the things he agreed with.
Thought experiment: if the legion of Tories here who declare that they're disgusted with the Government, will never vote for them again, think they're lying gits, etc., had the 2015 eleciton over again, how many of them would vote for Miliband instead?
GIN, maybe? - not sure if others would.
Few, UKIP on the other hand much more likely, the EU is Cameron's Iraq moment with UKIP being Tories' party of protest as the LDs were for Labour voters
The difference is that the Lib Dems surged to gaining 11 net extra seats in 2005 from those protest votes (though it lost 5 then in 2010 and let's not even mention 2015) whereas there's slim to nil chance of UKIP winning 11 extra seats in 2020.
Depends how big the swing is and even a handful of UKIP seats gives them an influence in a hung parliament, which given the small Tory majority would be more likely than 2005
Comments
I mean as per your analogy, if you're not campaigning for Leave, you're in fact a Quisling collaborator.
Who knows who is right?
One thing's for sure - there must be an immense amount of bollocks in the polls.
Some of them need to be run out of town.
60-65 band is now the same odds as 45-50!
That's right - over 60% Remain is now as likely as Leave winning!
In fact, it's MORE likely - as over 65% is shorter odds than under 45%.
The risk for Leave supporters in the Conservative Party is that it turns into a rout - if it's over 60% then they will look very silly if they throw their toys out of the pram.
Gird your loins, and knock up the voters in Cornwall, you'll enjoy it.
Reckless is more of a insult to him than traitor ;-)
Good night you soaked up popinjay.
Thought experiment: if the legion of Tories here who declare that they're disgusted with the Government, will never vote for them again, think they're lying gits, etc., had the 2015 eleciton over again, how many of them would vote for Miliband instead?
GIN, maybe? - not sure if others would.
Cameron isn't serious in the slightest about any of this. A form "semi-detached" relationship between the UK and EU for Britain? You're having a laugh.
Within six months it'll back to business as usual, I.E. more "integration" for the UK and as we'll have voted to REMAIN we'll just have to shut up and do what we're told.
Would I have voted for Miliband or just done what I did in 2001 and sit it out. I'm not sure?
The vast majority of polls are finding leave well ahead with pensioners - either online or on the telephone. ORB haven't.
The disparity of findings among the pollsters should mean that some are laughed out of town and never given an airing again when the final result is known.
I know OGH doesn't like calling them out, but from a betting perspective a pollster's credibility is critical in determining whether to back on the basis of their findings.
(edit: bit slow of me, I've just got the joke
Actually, these next five years could see a major change in EU thinking. Not a voluntary one from the likes of Juncker but one forced on them by the national politicians under threat from the likes of FPO, FN, AfD and so on.
Hosie resignation from Deputy Leader of Party: 'Right decision'
Hosie non-resignation from Deputy Leader of Westminster MPs:'We've moved on'
Stewart has been a great deputy leader of the SNP, and I am sorry he will not be deputy leader after our conference in the autumn.
"But he has taken a decision that in the interests of his family and his health it is right that he steps down, and I support him in that decision. I think in all the circumstances he is making the right decision."
Asked if Mr Hosie should also stand down from his Westminster role, Ms Sturgeon said: "I don't think that's the case.
"I think we've moved on and moved on quite some distance from the sense that personal issues, issues relating to someone's private marriage and private life necessarily affect someone's ability to do their job."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36357454
that's odd.
LEAVE does not equal BNP.
'I don't want this interview'.....
He wasn't the most articulate of youths
https://www.instagram.com/p/BFwTioiGhQj/
oaft
3 hours 3 minutes 3 seconds
That's what you want, right?
oh, wait...
They are the only party you can ever vote for again. Unless you're not telling the truth...
I don't know the historical detail on the others, but suggest it frames Mr Brown as a rather financially irresponsible incontinent tax-and-spender.
Lets not talk about the off-balance sheet fiddles.