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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432

    Fair's fair, data protection law is an emanation from the hated EU so it isn't surprising that Leave.EU don't want to comply with it.

    It's taking all my self restraint not to text Douglas Carswell with the following message

    'Hahahahaha bet you're glad you ratted to UKIP aren't you, you TPD'
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567

    Danny565 said:

    "Jeremy: You are right about austerity"

    How to lose an election in six words.

    If austerity is popular, why has there been such a huge public backlash against the Tories in the past 12 months whenever they've tried introducing significant spending cuts (tax credits, disability benefits, etc.)?
    because cutting the deficit is popular in the abstract whereas when people are presented with actual cuts they recoil.

    Personally, I believe the public have been persuaded we need to cut the deficit when economically we don't. But I accept that the politics of that position are awful.
    Surely you're not serious when you say we don't need to cut the deficit?
    Afraid so. I'm a member of the William Keegan school of economics. The deficit is easily affordable and indeed, given extremely low interest rates the government should be undertaking more capital spending and investment in infrastructure while it has the chance.

    A minority pursuit no doubt.
    And when interest rates rocket up? And we have a 10% deficit and 160% debt to GDP ratio with sky high interest rates and rampant inflation? What then?
    The additional investment and increase in demand should have reduced the deficit despite the increased levels of government spending.

    Of course, no one knows the precise point at which deficit will be a problem with markets.

    See Sir Nicholas Macpherson's view, which is that as it is unclear how you predict when the markets will take fright at deficit level, then the Treasury should err on side of caution:

    https://quarterly.blog.gov.uk/2015/03/19/mr-osbornes-economic-experiment-austerity-1945-51-and-2010-reviewed-by-sir-nicholas-macpherson/

    Or, as Keegan would probably put, good old treasury orthodoxy.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MSmithsonPB: Big poll news on front of Telegraph that doesn't look good for OUT https://t.co/Wt2mHCw5Ts
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    Lloyd's say Leave would be fine. Nice to know a Portuguese CEO has our back.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464958/We-ll-thrive-EU-says-bank-chief-Lloyds-boss-gives-vote-confidence-Brexit-s-Portugal.html

    Portugal is our oldest ally for those who don't know their history. Never had a war against Portugal and been allies one way and another since 1378.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Lol. It's so funny!

    Glad you're joining in, Mike ;-)
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944



    I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 11 when that happened, you old git
    Not surprised.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432
    ORB Poll for the Telegraph

    Remain 55 (nc)

    Leave 42 (+2)

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/734848274092412928
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    It's my belief that austerity is what is driving the popularity of Leave.

    That's interesting.

    If there is a vote to Leave, there might need to be an entirely new dictionary entry for hoist by one's own petard.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548



    I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 21 at the time. Good days. B'stards getting their cumuppence!
    Indeed, watching the Eastern bloc collapse in on itself was an awesome to see happening.
    It really has been a remarkeable transformation of Eastern Europe since then. Communist dictatorships with dire human rights records and moribond economies. Now democratic, growing economies that Britons go on stag weekends to.

    The opening of the EU to these countries has transformed them. Still much to do, so a job we need to stick with.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567

    Greetings from Washington DC. Just had lunch at the Capitol Hill Club, the place in town where t Republicans congregate. A few snippets to report:
    1. The feeling is that Trump has a real chance of winning in November, thanks to HC's unpopularity and his amazingly teflon qualities.
    2. A real spanner in the works, though, could be the emergence of stories about mob links. You can't do big builds in New York without having to deal with the mafia, apparently.
    3. If he does win he is going to have trouble bringing in A list Republicans to serve in his administration. He's just too unpredictable.
    4. He may not actually be a Republican!
    5. The Senate looks like it may flip to the Democrats in November, before flipping back to the GOP in 2018.

    Make of this what you will. No huge surprises, but 2 and 4 may explain a lot about why Trump is so worrisome for the GOP establishment.

    If Trump wins in November, I have my doubts about the GOP doing better in the Senate races in 2018 than they did in 2012. Pretty much guaranteed a big GOP win then if it's Hillary in the White House though.
    Trump's not a republican? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,003

    Danny565 said:

    "Jeremy: You are right about austerity"

    How to lose an election in six words.

    If austerity is popular, why has there been such a huge public backlash against the Tories in the past 12 months whenever they've tried introducing significant spending cuts (tax credits, disability benefits, etc.)?
    because cutting the deficit is popular in the abstract whereas when people are presented with actual cuts they recoil.

    Personally, I believe the public have been persuaded we need to cut the deficit when economically we don't. But I accept that the politics of that position are awful.
    Surely you're not serious when you say we don't need to cut the deficit?
    Afraid so. I'm a member of the William Keegan school of economics. The deficit is easily affordable and indeed, given extremely low interest rates the government should be undertaking more capital spending and investment in infrastructure while it has the chance.

    A minority pursuit no doubt.
    And when interest rates rocket up? And we have a 10% deficit and 160% debt to GDP ratio with sky high interest rates and rampant inflation? What then?
    The additional investment and increase in demand should have reduced the deficit despite the increased levels of government spending.

    Of course, no one knows the precise point at which deficit will be a problem with markets.

    See Sir Nicholas Macpherson's view, which is that as it is unclear how you predict when the markets will take fright at deficit level, then the Treasury should err on side of caution:

    https://quarterly.blog.gov.uk/2015/03/19/mr-osbornes-economic-experiment-austerity-1945-51-and-2010-reviewed-by-sir-nicholas-macpherson/

    Or, as Keegan would probably put, good old treasury orthodoxy.
    The problem then wouldn't be the deficit; it'd be the size of the debt itself.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Climate Change Act = export of jobs?

    On the day, Cruddas has another go at explaining why Labour are losing votes amongst traditional supporters.

    As for celebrating Paul Mason's economics, has that fool been to Cuba or Venezula recently?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Paul Waugh
    No10 spokesman confirms official UK policy *is* to support Turkey membership of EU. "I'm not trying to change govt policy" on that, he says

    It's not that the UK doesn't have a veto. It's that the UK is loving it, loving it, loving it.

    However, personally, I think the UK Government is lying. It is in favour of Turkey joining in principle, but not in practice.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    ORB Poll for the Telegraph

    Remain 55 (nc)

    Leave 42 (+2)

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/734848274092412928

    What size of victory will it take before continuity IDS, admit defeat and STFU?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432

    It's my belief that austerity is what is driving the popularity of Leave.

    That's interesting.

    If there is a vote to Leave, there might need to be an entirely new dictionary entry for hoist by one's own petard.
    From canvassing experience, the Leave's spend the £350 million on the NHS line is going done well.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567
    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Big poll news on front of Telegraph that doesn't look good for OUT https://t.co/Wt2mHCw5Ts

    Is this based on phone or online polling?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432
    saddened said:

    ORB Poll for the Telegraph

    Remain 55 (nc)

    Leave 42 (+2)

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/734848274092412928

    What size of victory will it take before continuity IDS, admit defeat and STFU?
    Another poll with most Tories backing Remain, I see, I'm sure PB Tory Leaver Banshees will take that on board.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432

    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Big poll news on front of Telegraph that doesn't look good for OUT https://t.co/Wt2mHCw5Ts

    Is this based on phone or online polling?
    The ORB polls for the Telegraph are usually phone polls
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    "Well, look at these 10 ultra marginals seats where the Tory majority is less than the Green vote... Without those ten seats David Cameron wouldn’t have an overall majority"

    People try this reasoning for the Tories and UKIP sometimes. It doesn't work: Green voters aren't only concerned about the environment, and some of the voters who are will be heavily anti-Labour, especially in 2015 with the LibDems exaporating. Neither strong Green positions nor the elimination of the Green candidate would have allowed you to move all, or even most, of those votes into the Labour column, and it certainly isn't going to happen from talking more about VAT on energy saving materials or whatever.
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944



    I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 21 at the time. Good days. B'stards getting their cumuppence!
    Indeed, watching the Eastern bloc collapse in on itself was an awesome to see happening.
    For nostaligia's sake then:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4RjJKxsamQ
    Seriously good English language band. Very clear English vocals. Some of the best and clearest.

    And they're German!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    It really has been a remarkeable transformation of Eastern Europe since then. Communist dictatorships with dire human rights records and moribond economies. Now democratic, growing economies that Britons go on stag weekends to.

    The opening of the EU to these countries has transformed them. Still much to do, so a job we need to stick with.

    Which makes this quite funny

    https://twitter.com/jonteinspain/status/734667933994110976
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It's official: David Cameron will not debate another political leader on television before EU referendum @Telegraph https://t.co/xDZtaJg7Sh


  • I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 11 when that happened, you old git
    Yes, and nature hadn't forced me to follow OGH on the hair style front then either.
    Things is different these days.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    Did David Cameron come into politics for no other reason than to lock us in to the EU?

    Think about it. What else has he achieved? What else will he be remembered for?

    This referendum is the only thing he'll be remembered for in the end... The Prime Minister who sold his country down the river and destroyed his Party?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    ORB Poll for the Telegraph

    Remain 55 (nc)

    Leave 42 (+2)

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/734848274092412928

    I like the thing they do with that photo of an old lady turning her back on the Brexit article, still clutching the flowers she had intended to give to Michael Gove.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    ORB Poll for the Telegraph

    Remain 55 (nc)

    Leave 42 (+2)

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/734848274092412928

    So Leave are doing better on the 0/10, 'I don't even live in Britain' + vote?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270

    Moses_ said:

    It's incredible that Labour lost either of the last two elections.

    Twitter loves them, Gordon is witty, Labour didn't do anything wrong and... Oh, I think I forgot to take my medication.

    Planning...it's all about planning.

    McGordo cried Wolf and abused that nice Mrs Duffy.

    They then went one step further. I m still trying to get my head round the Prezzer around the tablet of stone in the car park because someone forgot to calculate the weight and the load distribution factor of the stage they were originally going to place it on.

    As they said..... it was all going so well until Ed fell off the stage yet Labours tablet of stone never actually made it to the stage.

    Did they ever locate that tablet of stone by the way?
    I gather it's very expensive hardcore.
    It's holding up a motorway bridge somewhere.

    Along with the prat whose idea it was.....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    It's my belief that austerity is what is driving the popularity of Leave.

    That's interesting.

    If there is a vote to Leave, there might need to be an entirely new dictionary entry for hoist by one's own petard.
    From canvassing experience, the Leave's spend the £350 million on the NHS line is going done well.
    Baffling.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,414

    saddened said:

    ORB Poll for the Telegraph

    Remain 55 (nc)

    Leave 42 (+2)

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/734848274092412928

    What size of victory will it take before continuity IDS, admit defeat and STFU?
    Another poll with most Tories backing Remain, I see, I'm sure PB Tory Leaver Banshees will take that on board.
    It's not over till the Fat Liverpool Fan sings :)
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944

    It's my belief that austerity is what is driving the popularity of Leave.

    That's interesting.

    If there is a vote to Leave, there might need to be an entirely new dictionary entry for hoist by one's own petard.
    From canvassing experience, the Leave's spend the £350 million on the NHS line is going done well.
    Thing is that Leave do have some good messages and you can over do doom and gloom. We will see. It is all to play for.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Big poll news on front of Telegraph that doesn't look good for OUT https://t.co/Wt2mHCw5Ts

    Only 3% don't knows??

    That just doesn't compute.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432



    I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 11 when that happened, you old git
    Yes, and nature hadn't forced me to follow OGH on the hair style front then either.
    Things is different these days.
    Today I officially felt old today, I had to explain who MacGyver was to one of my staff today. They had never heard of MacGyver before, They are 18, it dawned on me they were born after Labour's victory in 1997.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    GIN1138 said:

    Think about it. What else has he achieved? What else will he be remembered for?

    Kicking Gordo out of Downing Street.

    For that alone he deserves a medal, statue and probably a public holiday
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    It's official: David Cameron will not debate another political leader on television before EU referendum @Telegraph https://t.co/xDZtaJg7Sh

    Chicken.


  • I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 21 at the time. Good days. B'stards getting their cumuppence!
    Indeed, watching the Eastern bloc collapse in on itself was an awesome to see happening.
    For nostaligia's sake then:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4RjJKxsamQ
    To be fair, I was bang into rave culture in those days.
    Marshall Jefferson, Sterling Void and Guru Josh were far more my cup of tea back then.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    edited May 2016
    Scott_P said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Think about it. What else has he achieved? What else will he be remembered for?

    Kicking Gordo out of Downing Street.

    For that alone he deserves a medal, statue and probably a public holiday
    He ran such an appalling campaign in 2010 that he very nearly blew that. He only did it with Lib-Dem support?
  • Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Big poll news on front of Telegraph that doesn't look good for OUT https://t.co/Wt2mHCw5Ts

    Is this based on phone or online polling?
    The ORB polls for the Telegraph are usually phone polls
    It is all those 80 year olds with mobile phones.
  • VapidBilgeVapidBilge Posts: 412

    Lloyd's say Leave would be fine. Nice to know a Portuguese CEO has our back.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464958/We-ll-thrive-EU-says-bank-chief-Lloyds-boss-gives-vote-confidence-Brexit-s-Portugal.html

    Portugal is our oldest ally for those who don't know their history. Never had a war against Portugal and been allies one way and another since 1378.

    Nope.

    The Iberian Union (1580–1640), a 60-year dynastic union between Portugal and Spain, interrupted the alliance. Portuguese foreign policy became tied to Spanish hostility to England. As a result, Portugal and England were on opposite sides of the Anglo-Spanish War (1585–1604) and the Dutch–Portuguese War. The alliance was reconfirmed after the Portuguese Restoration War and the English Restoration.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    Telegraph reporting older voters turn back on Brexit - poll lead of 13 for remain
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,003

    Paul Waugh
    No10 spokesman confirms official UK policy *is* to support Turkey membership of EU. "I'm not trying to change govt policy" on that, he says

    It's not that the UK doesn't have a veto. It's that the UK is loving it, loving it, loving it.

    However, personally, I think the UK Government is lying. It is in favour of Turkey joining in principle, but not in practice.
    I'd completely agree with that. For once, it's Britain playing the good European, safe in the knowledge that Greece, Cyprus, France and - presumably after today's vote - Austria won't let it happen this decade or next; long after Cameron has departed front-line politics.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Telegraph reporting older voters turn back on Brexit - poll lead of 13 for remain

    Swing to Leave.

    Let's see the 10/10.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,414
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Think about it. What else has he achieved? What else will he be remembered for?

    Kicking Gordo out of Downing Street.

    For that alone he deserves a medal, statue and probably a public holiday
    He ran such an appalling campaign in 2010 that he very nearly blew that. He only did it with Lib-Dem support?
    The Cameroons: A Warning From History

    narrated by Sam West

    Episode 1:
    "2010 - Helped Into Power"
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    saddened said:

    Ed Milliband, greatest prime minister, brilliant.

    Best Prime Minister we never had!

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/11/milifan-prime-minister-ed-miliband
    EICIBNPM
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    Telegraph reporting big change in Tory support for remain with 57% now in the remain camp


  • I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 11 when that happened, you old git
    Yes, and nature hadn't forced me to follow OGH on the hair style front then either.
    Things is different these days.
    Today I officially felt old today, I had to explain who MacGyver was to one of my staff today. They had never heard of MacGyver before, They are 18, it dawned on me they were born after Labour's victory in 1997.
    And they're like 'yeah, yeah'
    That sort of thing only gets worse.


  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,171

    Lloyd's say Leave would be fine. Nice to know a Portuguese CEO has our back.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464958/We-ll-thrive-EU-says-bank-chief-Lloyds-boss-gives-vote-confidence-Brexit-s-Portugal.html

    Portugal is our oldest ally for those who don't know their history. Never had a war against Portugal and been allies one way and another since 1378.

    Nope.

    The Iberian Union (1580–1640), a 60-year dynastic union between Portugal and Spain, interrupted the alliance. Portuguese foreign policy became tied to Spanish hostility to England. As a result, Portugal and England were on opposite sides of the Anglo-Spanish War (1585–1604) and the Dutch–Portuguese War. The alliance was reconfirmed after the Portuguese Restoration War and the English Restoration.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance
    Never had a war against an independent Portugal ;)
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Telegraph reporting big change in Tory support for remain with 57% now in the remain camp

    Show us the 10/10 on the 2015 Tory vote - not all the fake Lib Dem Tories.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451

    Telegraph reporting big change in Tory support for remain with 57% now in the remain camp

    Two or three months after the referendum they'll all be back to whining and whinging about the EU...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    Telegraph reporting pensioners turning to remain. Never underestimate the power of grandchildren
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432
    chestnut said:

    Telegraph reporting big change in Tory support for remain with 57% now in the remain camp

    Show us the 10/10 on the 2015 Tory vote - not all the fake Lib Dem Tories.
    You're getting angry.

    You don't like the Tories picking up support?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Lloyd's say Leave would be fine. Nice to know a Portuguese CEO has our back.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464958/We-ll-thrive-EU-says-bank-chief-Lloyds-boss-gives-vote-confidence-Brexit-s-Portugal.html

    Portugal is our oldest ally for those who don't know their history. Never had a war against Portugal and been allies one way and another since 1378.

    Nope.

    The Iberian Union (1580–1640), a 60-year dynastic union between Portugal and Spain, interrupted the alliance. Portuguese foreign policy became tied to Spanish hostility to England. As a result, Portugal and England were on opposite sides of the Anglo-Spanish War (1585–1604) and the Dutch–Portuguese War. The alliance was reconfirmed after the Portuguese Restoration War and the English Restoration.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance
    The Spanish Armada sailed from Lisbon, and the second in command had a Portuguese Galleon as his flagship.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    GIN1138 said:

    Telegraph reporting big change in Tory support for remain with 57% now in the remain camp

    Two or three months after the referendum they'll all be back to whining and whinging about the EU...
    They're Lib Dems.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432
    The figures I quoted earlier were the 10/10 voters, this is the all voters figures

    https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsEU/status/734852258605715456
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    Kunsberg on the BBC. Polls show 10 million enthusiastic for leave only 5 million enthusiastic for remain.

    If I were Remain I would be worried about that especially so as they don't know where to direct their GOTV campaign even if they had one.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340



    I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 11 when that happened, you old git
    Yes, and nature hadn't forced me to follow OGH on the hair style front then either.
    Things is different these days.
    Today I officially felt old today, I had to explain who MacGyver was to one of my staff today. They had never heard of MacGyver before, They are 18, it dawned on me they were born after Labour's victory in 1997.
    And they're like 'yeah, yeah'
    That sort of thing only gets worse.


    I went for a medical before Christmas. The nurse asked my date of birth and noted that I'd just had my birthday, had I done anything nice? Well actually, I said, I'd been due to see New Order but hadn't been able to go.

    "Who are New Order?"

    "You will have heard their biggest track Blue Monday, even if you don't recognise the name of the track, it's played eveywhere. It was the biggest selling 12" ever."

    "What's a 12"?"

    At that point I quit when I was behind.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    Telegraph reporting big change in Tory support for remain with 57% now in the remain camp

    Show us the 10/10 on the 2015 Tory vote - not all the fake Lib Dem Tories.
    You're getting angry.

    You don't like the Tories picking up support?
    Angry? No, I'm chuckling.

    If Tory support means that they are actually de facto Lib Dems (or New Labour), I welcome it in the same way that Labour welcomed becoming Tories.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,414
    RobD said:

    Lloyd's say Leave would be fine. Nice to know a Portuguese CEO has our back.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464958/We-ll-thrive-EU-says-bank-chief-Lloyds-boss-gives-vote-confidence-Brexit-s-Portugal.html

    Portugal is our oldest ally for those who don't know their history. Never had a war against Portugal and been allies one way and another since 1378.

    Nope.

    The Iberian Union (1580–1640), a 60-year dynastic union between Portugal and Spain, interrupted the alliance. Portuguese foreign policy became tied to Spanish hostility to England. As a result, Portugal and England were on opposite sides of the Anglo-Spanish War (1585–1604) and the Dutch–Portuguese War. The alliance was reconfirmed after the Portuguese Restoration War and the English Restoration.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance
    Never had a war against an independent Portugal ;)
    They were on our side in WW!, but remained neutral in WW2.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    edited May 2016

    chestnut said:

    Telegraph reporting big change in Tory support for remain with 57% now in the remain camp

    Show us the 10/10 on the 2015 Tory vote - not all the fake Lib Dem Tories.
    You're getting angry.

    You don't like the Tories picking up support?
    Given the way the Posh Boys have threatened everyone it's hardly surprising that rich Tories are voting to protect their savings.... These two Posh Boys have told us that, in effect, the world will end on 24th June if we vote OUT.

    Their day of reckoning is coming though, of that you can have no doubt...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432



    I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 11 when that happened, you old git
    Yes, and nature hadn't forced me to follow OGH on the hair style front then either.
    Things is different these days.
    Today I officially felt old today, I had to explain who MacGyver was to one of my staff today. They had never heard of MacGyver before, They are 18, it dawned on me they were born after Labour's victory in 1997.
    And they're like 'yeah, yeah'
    That sort of thing only gets worse.


    I went for a medical before Christmas. The nurse asked my date of birth and noted that I'd just had my birthday, had I done anything nice? Well actually, I said, I'd been due to see New Order but hadn't been able to go.

    "Who are New Order?"

    "You will have heard their biggest track Blue Monday, even if you don't recognise the name of the track, it's played eveywhere. It was the biggest selling 12" ever."

    "What's a 12"?"

    At that point I quit when I was behind.
    If you had shown the nurse your 12" that would have been the hallmarks of a Bizarre Love Triangle?

    I'll get my coat
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548



    I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 11 when that happened, you old git
    Yes, and nature hadn't forced me to follow OGH on the hair style front then either.
    Things is different these days.
    Today I officially felt old today, I had to explain who MacGyver was to one of my staff today. They had never heard of MacGyver before, They are 18, it dawned on me they were born after Labour's victory in 1997.
    And they're like 'yeah, yeah'
    That sort of thing only gets worse.


    I went for a medical before Christmas. The nurse asked my date of birth and noted that I'd just had my birthday, had I done anything nice? Well actually, I said, I'd been due to see New Order but hadn't been able to go.

    "Who are New Order?"

    "You will have heard their biggest track Blue Monday, even if you don't recognise the name of the track, it's played eveywhere. It was the biggest selling 12" ever."

    "What's a 12"?"

    At that point I quit when I was behind.
    New Order are headlining at Latitude Festival in July, so still time to catch them. I saw them at Glastonbury in 1987. Latitude is pretty chilled, lots of Guardian readers.

    .
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034



    I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 11 when that happened, you old git
    I was 22. But by way of compensation, I was on a beach in Fiji that day.
    In Geneva, at the UN building.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    The figures I quoted earlier were the 10/10 voters, this is the all voters figures

    twitter.com/NCPoliticsEU/status/734852258605715456

    Rather important bit...

    N=800
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944

    RobD said:

    Lloyd's say Leave would be fine. Nice to know a Portuguese CEO has our back.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464958/We-ll-thrive-EU-says-bank-chief-Lloyds-boss-gives-vote-confidence-Brexit-s-Portugal.html

    Portugal is our oldest ally for those who don't know their history. Never had a war against Portugal and been allies one way and another since 1378.

    Nope.

    The Iberian Union (1580–1640), a 60-year dynastic union between Portugal and Spain, interrupted the alliance. Portuguese foreign policy became tied to Spanish hostility to England. As a result, Portugal and England were on opposite sides of the Anglo-Spanish War (1585–1604) and the Dutch–Portuguese War. The alliance was reconfirmed after the Portuguese Restoration War and the English Restoration.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance
    Never had a war against an independent Portugal ;)
    They were on our side in WW!, but remained neutral in WW2.
    They didn't think they had much of a choice and would not have added much anyway.

    We did ask if they wouldn't mind terribly if we invaded the Azores, they said no, by all means. Fill your boots. Don't forget to tidy up afterwards.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158

    It's my belief that austerity is what is driving the popularity of Leave.

    That's interesting.

    If there is a vote to Leave, there might need to be an entirely new dictionary entry for hoist by one's own petard.
    From canvassing experience, the Leave's spend the £350 million on the NHS line is going done well.
    Baffling.
    Really?

    Work has been mad, but the only politics that has reached my ears these past days is the 350m line. Saw the Vote Leave ad on C4 tonight - first thought was that it would swing decent numbers of Labour voters. Combine it with the Turkey et all remarks and it makes huge campaign sense.

    Shore up the core vote and reach out to left wing discontent at the same time.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432

    The figures I quoted earlier were the 10/10 voters, this is the all voters figures

    twitter.com/NCPoliticsEU/status/734852258605715456

    Rather important bit...

    N=800
    Not really, MOE on that sample is 3.4, as opposed to a 1,000 strong poll which is 3.1
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The Express, undaunted, is going for a lurid Leave headline:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/734855318933475328
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432
    GIN1138 said:

    chestnut said:

    Telegraph reporting big change in Tory support for remain with 57% now in the remain camp

    Show us the 10/10 on the 2015 Tory vote - not all the fake Lib Dem Tories.
    You're getting angry.

    You don't like the Tories picking up support?
    Given the way the Posh Boys have threatened everyone it's hardly surprising that rich Tories are voting to protect their savings.... These two Posh Boys have told us that, in effect, the world will end on 24th June is we vote OUT.

    Their day of reckoning is coming though, of that you can have no doubt...
    You're underestimating the voters, you sound like a Labour supporter after the last election.

    'Tories only won because of fear'

    Nope, we won, because we judged to be better than the alternative.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    The figures I quoted earlier were the 10/10 voters, this is the all voters figures

    twitter.com/NCPoliticsEU/status/734852258605715456

    Rather important bit...

    N=800
    Not really, MOE on that sample is 3.4, as opposed to a 1,000 strong poll which is 3.1
    Let's see the tables.

    The overall number is a swing to Leave.
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944

    The figures I quoted earlier were the 10/10 voters, this is the all voters figures

    twitter.com/NCPoliticsEU/status/734852258605715456

    Rather important bit...

    N=800
    Not really, MOE on that sample is 3.4, as opposed to a 1,000 strong poll which is 3.1
    Well, it could have problems with hard to reach Tory voters if the BES study is anything to go by
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    The figures I quoted earlier were the 10/10 voters, this is the all voters figures

    twitter.com/NCPoliticsEU/status/734852258605715456

    Rather important bit...

    N=800
    3% undecided simply isn't credible, we've said this about every ORB poll.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432

    The Express, undaunted, is going for a lurid Leave headline:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/734855318933475328

    A Netmums poll.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politics would look like if mainstream Tories had spent the last 25 years actually standing up for what they believed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    The Express, undaunted, is going for a lurid Leave headline:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/734855318933475328

    A Netmums poll.
    You weren't expecting a news story, surely?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,414

    The Express, undaunted, is going for a lurid Leave headline:

    //twitter.com/hendopolis/status/734855318933475328

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/732785721145188352
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432
    Sir Lynton Crosby knows

    In an analysis of the data, Sir Lynton Crosby, who masterminded the Conservative Party’s general election victory last year, warns that the Leave campaign is “dwindling” and has “failed to quell ongoing concerns about the financial and economic consequences of a Brexit”.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432

    The Express, undaunted, is going for a lurid Leave headline:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/734855318933475328

    A Netmums poll.
    You weren't expecting a news story, surely?
    I'm a hopeless optimist
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    The figures I quoted earlier were the 10/10 voters, this is the all voters figures

    twitter.com/NCPoliticsEU/status/734852258605715456

    Rather important bit...

    N=800
    Not really, MOE on that sample is 3.4, as opposed to a 1,000 strong poll which is 3.1
    Well, it could have problems with hard to reach Tory voters if the BES study is anything to go by
    which is a problem fundamentally unaffected by sample size
  • The figures I quoted earlier were the 10/10 voters, this is the all voters figures

    twitter.com/NCPoliticsEU/status/734852258605715456

    Rather important bit...

    N=800
    3% undecided simply isn't credible, we've said this about every ORB poll.
    It is all those decisive people with smart phones....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politics would look like if mainstream Tories had spent the last 25 years actually standing up for what they believed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.

    Hugo Rifkind has a good article in The Times about what he calls "banter", by which he means politicians espousing views they don't really believe.

    He predicts this referendum should see it's end

    That will be tackling the banter. It’s got to go, even if that means some Tories go with it. If nothing else, it simply won’t work any more. No longer will ministers be able to score easy points by pandering to an insidious, tolerated ideal of a Britain that goes it alone. No longer will they be able to keep the party’s right away from Ukip by intimating, albeit with coy and smirking deniability, that they’re all on the same side. They aren’t. They never were, and finally they’ll have to be honest about it. The banter boat has sailed.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/from-now-on-theres-no-room-for-tory-banter-lsctj5j76
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,674
    Economic arguments not working for LEAVE because nobody is articulating them. REMAIN articulate why quitting the union would be risky, but LEAVE don't have anyone saying why exiting would make people better off, they just say you can't believe anyone, which hardly encourages people to believe LEAVE. YES did a better job in that regard.
    So they campaign on a Ukip immigration line and increasingly seem to look more like a Ukip than a Conservative campaign. Perhaps with a similar type of result.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Tory voters seem to be prepared to follow their leadership. You have to wonder what British politics would look like if mainstream Tories had spent the last 25 years actually standing up for what they believed in instead of pretending to agree with the populist right.

    +1
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,941

    Paul Waugh
    No10 spokesman confirms official UK policy *is* to support Turkey membership of EU. "I'm not trying to change govt policy" on that, he says

    It's not that the UK doesn't have a veto. It's that the UK is loving it, loving it, loving it.

    However, personally, I think the UK Government is lying. It is in favour of Turkey joining in principle, but not in practice.
    Spot on.

    And, truth be told, that's true of a lot of European countries.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Yup, Leavers know they have lost

    They hate Cameron more than the EU. He's a winner, and they don't like that.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    edited May 2016

    Sir Lynton Crosby knows

    In an analysis of the data, Sir Lynton Crosby, who masterminded the Conservative Party’s general election victory last year, warns that the Leave campaign is “dwindling” and has “failed to quell ongoing concerns about the financial and economic consequences of a Brexit”.

    How were LEAVE ever going to "quell" concerns over financial and economic consequences of Brexit given the way The Posh Boys have lined up the entire British establishment and all international bodies to threaten their own citizens?

    BTW, how did this creep Crosby end up with a Knighthood? I think I missed that...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,171

    RobD said:

    Lloyd's say Leave would be fine. Nice to know a Portuguese CEO has our back.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464958/We-ll-thrive-EU-says-bank-chief-Lloyds-boss-gives-vote-confidence-Brexit-s-Portugal.html

    Portugal is our oldest ally for those who don't know their history. Never had a war against Portugal and been allies one way and another since 1378.

    Nope.

    The Iberian Union (1580–1640), a 60-year dynastic union between Portugal and Spain, interrupted the alliance. Portuguese foreign policy became tied to Spanish hostility to England. As a result, Portugal and England were on opposite sides of the Anglo-Spanish War (1585–1604) and the Dutch–Portuguese War. The alliance was reconfirmed after the Portuguese Restoration War and the English Restoration.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance
    Never had a war against an independent Portugal ;)
    They were on our side in WW!, but remained neutral in WW2.
    They didn't think they had much of a choice and would not have added much anyway.

    We did ask if they wouldn't mind terribly if we invaded the Azores, they said no, by all means. Fill your boots. Don't forget to tidy up afterwards.
    How polite of us. ;)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,941



    I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 11 when that happened, you old git
    Yes, and nature hadn't forced me to follow OGH on the hair style front then either.
    Things is different these days.
    Today I officially felt old today, I had to explain who MacGyver was to one of my staff today. They had never heard of MacGyver before, They are 18, it dawned on me they were born after Labour's victory in 1997.
    And they're like 'yeah, yeah'
    That sort of thing only gets worse.


    I went for a medical before Christmas. The nurse asked my date of birth and noted that I'd just had my birthday, had I done anything nice? Well actually, I said, I'd been due to see New Order but hadn't been able to go.

    "Who are New Order?"

    "You will have heard their biggest track Blue Monday, even if you don't recognise the name of the track, it's played eveywhere. It was the biggest selling 12" ever."

    "What's a 12"?"

    At that point I quit when I was behind.
    New Order are headlining at Latitude Festival in July, so still time to catch them. I saw them at Glastonbury in 1987. Latitude is pretty chilled, lots of Guardian readers.

    .
    Would it be suitable to take my 8 and 6 year old children?

    The National are playing, and they are AWESOME
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Sir Lynton Crosby knows

    Sir Lynton Crosby is writing for the Daily Telegraph whose readership wants what?

    How do you motivate them?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432
    GIN1138 said:

    Sir Lynton Crosby knows

    In an analysis of the data, Sir Lynton Crosby, who masterminded the Conservative Party’s general election victory last year, warns that the Leave campaign is “dwindling” and has “failed to quell ongoing concerns about the financial and economic consequences of a Brexit”.

    How were LEAVE ever going to "quell" concerns over financial and economic consequences of Brexit given the way The Posh Boys have lined up the entire British establishment and all international bodies to threaten their own citizens?

    BTW, how did this creep Crosby end up with a Knighthood? I think I missed that...
    Leave could have gone down the EEA route, but they chose not to.

    Labour's election chief got a peerage, the Tory election chief just got a K.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @jimwaterson: The new confirmed lineup for the world's first anti-EU music festival looks pretty amazing really. Can't wait. https://t.co/TcFTYn9Xlb
  • eekeek Posts: 28,797
    edited May 2016
    rcs1000 said:



    I remember that Ceausescu speech... Then they started laughing....And then you knew it was over.
    Makes me feel old reading this.
    That speech happened on my 19th birthday.

    I was 11 when that happened, you old git
    Yes, and nature hadn't forced me to follow OGH on the hair style front then either.
    Things is different these days.
    Today I officially felt old today, I had to explain who MacGyver was to one of my staff today. They had never heard of MacGyver before, They are 18, it dawned on me they were born after Labour's victory in 1997.
    And they're like 'yeah, yeah'
    That sort of thing only gets worse.


    I went for a medical before Christmas. The nurse asked my date of birth and noted that I'd just had my birthday, had I done anything nice? Well actually, I said, I'd been due to see New Order but hadn't been able to go.

    "Who are New Order?"

    "You will have heard their biggest track Blue Monday, even if you don't recognise the name of the track, it's played eveywhere. It was the biggest selling 12" ever."

    "What's a 12"?"

    At that point I quit when I was behind.
    New Order are headlining at Latitude Festival in July, so still time to catch them. I saw them at Glastonbury in 1987. Latitude is pretty chilled, lots of Guardian readers.

    .
    Would it be suitable to take my 8 and 6 year old children?

    The National are playing, and they are AWESOME
    Mrs Eek took our twins there 7 years ago (aged 7) by herself. Nothing to worry about as there is plenty of child friendly activities and the family camping is families only...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    Scott_P said:

    Yup, Leavers know they have lost

    They hate Cameron more than the EU. He's a winner, and they don't like that.
    I hate Osborne more... :smiley:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,941
    Scott_P said:

    @jimwaterson: The new confirmed lineup for the world's first anti-EU music festival looks pretty amazing really. Can't wait. https://t.co/TcFTYn9Xlb

    I hope that tweet is a joke.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Scott_P said:

    Yup, Leavers know they have lost

    They hate Cameron more than the EU. He's a winner, and they don't like that.
    What a tedious line this is. The Tory party is ruthless when winning is on the line.

    With our current leadership and its hapless approach to public policy, winning won't be a likelihood next time.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,003
    Mortimer said:

    Scott_P said:

    Yup, Leavers know they have lost

    They hate Cameron more than the EU. He's a winner, and they don't like that.
    What a tedious line this is. The Tory party is ruthless when winning is on the line.

    With our current leadership and its hapless approach to public policy, winning won't be a likelihood next time.
    As Cameron won't be leader anyway, by his own announcement, you don't need to worry on that score.
This discussion has been closed.