Well, talking of willingness to admit mistakes, numerous Conservatives have admitted that the campaign against Khan attempting guilt by association ("we accept that he's not an Islamist extremist but...") was (a) unpleasant and (b) ludicrous. It would be nice if the same Conservatives advised against use of precisely the same tactics against Corbyn - "we accept that he's not a terrorist sympathiser/anti-semitic himself but...".
The case against Corbyn, and even more so McDonnell, is completely clear on this, so, no, I would very much hope that they don't accept anything of the sort. This is a guy who invited IRA bombers into parliament just days after the IRA had succeeded in murdering one of Corbyn's fellow MPs, a regional chairman, and three wives, as well as maiming others for life. They very nearly wiped out a large chunk of the democratically-elected government, yet Corbyn invited them to Westminster, rubbing the noses of the victims in the horror with utter disregard for their feelings.
Frankly, if you are not absolutely revolted by Corbyn's behaviour, your moral compass is utterly broken. McDonnell's record is even worse. I certainly hope the public are made fully aware of the disgusting records of both of them.
And that's without even going on to the subject of Hamas and other 'friends' of the Labour leadership.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
If you want to watch Megyn Kelly's interview with Michael Douglas, Robert Shapiro, Laverne Cox (?) and Donald Trump, it's on the Fox network at 8pm Eastern. That's Fox and NOT repeat NOT Fox news.
There are reports of another plan to stop Trump - and Hillary. This time the plan is to put up a third candidate in states where neither Trump nor Clinton did well, with a view to denying either of them 270 electoral votes, and throwing the election to the House of representatives.
How realistic - or dumb - is this plan? I don't know, but it's certainly interesting.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
They can get change through the democratic process. They chose not to. They want to remain in the Eurozone, for reasons which are completely understandable in the historical context even if they are not very understandable in economic terms.
Well, talking of willingness to admit mistakes, numerous Conservatives have admitted that the campaign against Khan attempting guilt by association ("we accept that he's not an Islamist extremist but...") was (a) unpleasant and (b) ludicrous. It would be nice if the same Conservatives advised against use of precisely the same tactics against Corbyn - "we accept that he's not a terrorist sympathiser/anti-semitic himself but...".
The case against Corbyn, and even more so McDonnell, is completely clear on this, so, no, I would very much hope that they don't accept anything of the sort. This is a guy who invited IRA bombers into parliament just days after the IRA had succeeded in murdering one of Corbyn's fellow MPs, a regional chairman, and three wives, as well as maiming others for life. They very nearly wiped out a large chunk of the democratically-elected government, yet Corbyn invited them to Westminster, rubbing the noses of the victims in the horror with utter disregard for their feelings.
Frankly, if you are not absolutely revolted by Corbyn's behaviour, your moral compass is utterly broken. McDonnell's record is even worse. I certainly hope the public are made fully aware of the disgusting records of both of them.
And that's without even going on to the subject of Hamas and other 'friends' of the Labour leadership.
And yet, in spite of all that, the Tories still suffered one of their worst ever results in the local elections for a first-year government.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
No.
Do you honestly think that the people in Greece are not petrol bombing their local plod?
The question is why are the people of Greece rioting so frequently? Could it possibly be due to their wishes and needs being ignored by the political elites?
Well, talking of willingness to admit mistakes, numerous Conservatives have admitted that the campaign against Khan attempting guilt by association ("we accept that he's not an Islamist extremist but...") was (a) unpleasant and (b) ludicrous. It would be nice if the same Conservatives advised against use of precisely the same tactics against Corbyn - "we accept that he's not a terrorist sympathiser/anti-semitic himself but...".
The case against Corbyn, and even more so McDonnell, is completely clear on this, so, no, I would very much hope that they don't accept anything of the sort. This is a guy who invited IRA bombers into parliament just days after the IRA had succeeded in murdering one of Corbyn's fellow MPs, a regional chairman, and three wives, as well as maiming others for life. They very nearly wiped out a large chunk of the democratically-elected government, yet Corbyn invited them to Westminster, rubbing the noses of the victims in the horror with utter disregard for their feelings.
Frankly, if you are not absolutely revolted by Corbyn's behaviour, your moral compass is utterly broken. McDonnell's record is even worse. I certainly hope the public are made fully aware of the disgusting records of both of them.
And that's without even going on to the subject of Hamas and other 'friends' of the Labour leadership.
I think you're over the top Richard. In a Commons of 600-650 MPs there are always going to members who maintain dialogue with people who are beyond the pale. That is probably a good thing for society, even if we do not like it.
Where we are now is unique and without precedent, one such member has become a party leader. Not sure hyperbole like yours is useful or constructive. Corbyn has made no secret of what he has done, people can make up their own minds without anyone calling into question their moral compasses. I imagine that Corbyn, of whom I am no fan, may very well argue that this dialogue contributed to the peace process.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't mind a military coup,is that any help.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
No.
Do you honestly think that the people in Greece are not petrol bombing their local plod?
The question is why are the people of Greece rioting so frequently? Could it possibly be due to their wishes and needs being ignored by the political elites?
Because the Greeks want the Eurozone countries to keep on subsidising them.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't mind a military coup,is that any help.
And yet, in spite of all that, the Tories still suffered one of their worst ever results in the local elections for a first-year government.
You might have noticed that there's a bit of a political kerfuffle going on at the moment, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions from the locals. In any case, the locals were not much about Corbyn.
In any case, my point was a moral one, not a psephological one. Sure, it's possible that voters won't be much put off by the disgusting record of Corbyn and McDonnell. That doesn't make the record any less disgusting.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
The point is you don't. We voted in a government to reduce immigration to less than 100,000 a year. It said it would. It promised. It can't deliver. That is one of the reasons why Leave will not be crushed.
Well, talking of willingness to admit mistakes, numerous Conservatives have admitted that the campaign against Khan attempting guilt by association ("we accept that he's not an Islamist extremist but...") was (a) unpleasant and (b) ludicrous. It would be nice if the same Conservatives advised against use of precisely the same tactics against Corbyn - "we accept that he's not a terrorist sympathiser/anti-semitic himself but...".
The case against Corbyn, and even more so McDonnell, is completely clear on this, so, no, I would very much hope that they don't accept anything of the sort. This is a guy who invited IRA bombers into parliament just days after the IRA had succeeded in murdering one of Corbyn's fellow MPs, a regional chairman, and three wives, as well as maiming others for life. They very nearly wiped out a large chunk of the democratically-elected government, yet Corbyn invited them to Westminster, rubbing the noses of the victims in the horror with utter disregard for their feelings.
Frankly, if you are not absolutely revolted by Corbyn's behaviour, your moral compass is utterly broken. McDonnell's record is even worse. I certainly hope the public are made fully aware of the disgusting records of both of them.
And that's without even going on to the subject of Hamas and other 'friends' of the Labour leadership.
I think you're over the top Richard. In a Commons of 600-650 MPs there are always going to members who maintain dialogue with people who are beyond the pale. That is probably a good thing for society, even if we do not like it.
Where we are now is unique and without precedent, one such member has become a party leader. Not sure hyperbole like yours is useful or constructive. Corbyn has made no secret of what he has done, people can make up their own minds without anyone calling into question their moral compasses. I imagine that Corbyn, of whom I am no fan, may very well argue that this dialogue contributed to the peace process.
No, I am just being morally clear-headed.
It's not as though what I said is particularly controversial. Many, many decent Labour MPs. members and supporters (and even more ex-members and ex-supporters) agree, or used to agree. Some of them seem to have forgotten.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
The point is you don't. We voted in a government to reduce immigration to less than 100,000 a year. It said it would. It promised. It can't deliver. That is one of the reasons why Leave will not be crushed.
Dave failed his immigration pledge, and the voters still voted him back in, with an increase in both seats and share of the vote.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
The point is you don't. We voted in a government to reduce immigration to less than 100,000 a year. It said it would. It promised. It can't deliver. That is one of the reasons why Leave will not be crushed.
Dave failed his immigration pledge, and the voters still voted him back in, with an increase in both seats and share of the vote.
That's democracy.
And Fake Dave went on at the GE about cutting immigration again.
Hillary might lose both Kentucky and Oregon - the clue? She is nowhere to be found and off the campaign trail this evening.
On the GOP side, short of a Jim Gilmore electoral sweep, there is no excitement.
Also odd that Hillary, whose whole campaign is based on her womanhood and being the first woman president, announced she would put her husband in charge of the number 1 concern of the electorate, the economy. It's the 2 for 1 deal all over again.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't mind a military coup,is that any help.
Then you're not a democrat.
Neither are you.
Over 50% of the people voted for parties that wanted immigration below 100,000 and Cameron has flouted that.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
The point is you don't. We voted in a government to reduce immigration to less than 100,000 a year. It said it would. It promised. It can't deliver. That is one of the reasons why Leave will not be crushed.
Dave failed his immigration pledge, and the voters still voted him back in, with an increase in both seats and share of the vote.
That's democracy.
And Fake Dave went on at the GE about cutting immigration again.
And Fake Farage went on at the GE that he would stand down as UKIP Leader if he didn't win South Thanet.
If you want to watch Megyn Kelly's interview with Michael Douglas, Robert Shapiro, Laverne Cox (?) and Donald Trump, it's on the Fox network at 8pm Eastern. That's Fox and NOT repeat NOT Fox news.
There are reports of another plan to stop Trump - and Hillary. This time the plan is to put up a third candidate in states where neither Trump nor Clinton did well, with a view to denying either of them 270 electoral votes, and throwing the election to the House of representatives.
How realistic - or dumb - is this plan? I don't know, but it's certainly interesting.
Quite right too. I may abhor your opinions on Europe, but Palmer put himself beyond the Pale when he went Full Corbyn.
As for Khan, he has too many dodgy associations. Examining them was therefore the Due Diligence of Democracy. That was done, and he was elected, so be it. But it was perfectly fair to scrutinize him, as he had questions to answer.
Imagine if Khan hadn't been analysed for his strange friendships, out of fear of being called racist. Then imagine that he turned out to be a full-on jihadist sympathiser. Democracy would have failed.
Instead, democracy did its job.
I think Sadiq Khan did have some questions to answer, but I also think that the Zac campaign hugely over-did it, which was counter-productive as well as not the kind of campaign that we should carry out.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't mind a military coup,is that any help.
Then you're not a democrat.
Neither are you.
Over 50% of the people voted for parties that wanted immigration below 100,000 and Cameron has flouted that.
And in a democracy we can boot the buggers out in five years time.
Voters vote on a variety of issues, not just one.
The one thing that does console me, the front man for Leave has argued for amnesty for illegal immigrants in this country.
There are honourable men and women who believe in Leave.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
The point is you don't. We voted in a government to reduce immigration to less than 100,000 a year. It said it would. It promised. It can't deliver. That is one of the reasons why Leave will not be crushed.
Dave failed his immigration pledge, and the voters still voted him back in, with an increase in both seats and share of the vote.
That's democracy.
And Fake Dave went on at the GE about cutting immigration again.
And Fake Farage went on at the GE that he would stand down as UKIP Leader if he didn't win South Thanet.
If you want to watch Megyn Kelly's interview with Michael Douglas, Robert Shapiro, Laverne Cox (?) and Donald Trump, it's on the Fox network at 8pm Eastern. That's Fox and NOT repeat NOT Fox news.
There are reports of another plan to stop Trump - and Hillary. This time the plan is to put up a third candidate in states where neither Trump nor Clinton did well, with a view to denying either of them 270 electoral votes, and throwing the election to the House of representatives.
How realistic - or dumb - is this plan? I don't know, but it's certainly interesting.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
The point is you don't. We voted in a government to reduce immigration to less than 100,000 a year. It said it would. It promised. It can't deliver. That is one of the reasons why Leave will not be crushed.
Dave failed his immigration pledge, and the voters still voted him back in, with an increase in both seats and share of the vote.
That's democracy.
Did he not remake the pledge? Did he not promise to renegotiate and if that failed to recommend leave?
This is the problem with politics, it isn't when politicians tell lies it's when they are found out. It corrodes democracy and gives legitimacy to the mob. That is a bad way to go and that is Cameron's fault.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
The point is you don't. We voted in a government to reduce immigration to less than 100,000 a year. It said it would. It promised. It can't deliver. That is one of the reasons why Leave will not be crushed.
Dave failed his immigration pledge, and the voters still voted him back in, with an increase in both seats and share of the vote.
That's democracy.
Did he not remake the pledge? Did he not promise to renegotiate and if that failed to recommend leave?
This is the problem with politics, it isn't when politicians tell lies it's when they are found out. It corrodes democracy and gives legitimacy to the mob. That is a bad way to go and that is Cameron's fault.
You're misreading Cameron's comments on the latter.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
The point is you don't. We voted in a government to reduce immigration to less than 100,000 a year. It said it would. It promised. It can't deliver. That is one of the reasons why Leave will not be crushed.
Dave failed his immigration pledge, and the voters still voted him back in, with an increase in both seats and share of the vote.
That's democracy.
And Fake Dave went on at the GE about cutting immigration again.
And Fake Farage went on at the GE that he would stand down as UKIP Leader if he didn't win South Thanet.
Whilst I agree with you about that it is worth pointing out that he did stand down as leader. Not for long. But he did.....But we are not talking about Farage because he doesn't have the levers of powe (or in the case of immigration, powerlessness)
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
No.
Do you honestly think that the people in Greece are not petrol bombing their local plod?
The question is why are the people of Greece rioting so frequently? Could it possibly be due to their wishes and needs being ignored by the political elites?
Because the Greeks want the Eurozone countries to keep on subsidising them.
The Eurozone have said not any more.
What is it now in Greece 56% of the young people are unemployed, the country's economy is so deep in the shitter it probably is never capable of climbing out unless something really fundamental changes and they are being required by the EU to make further cuts, Cuts not only to public spending but to standards of living and job numbers. Even the IMF have said it can't go on and the plans imposed are self-defeating. Hundreds of thousands of lives are being ruined for what? For the Euro? For Politicians vanities? To stop over-extended German Banks from collapsing?
Frankly, if I were a Greek, I'd be out on the streets too.
This is Greece we are talking about, not some third world hell-hole. A member of the EU you are so keen on. The place is falling apart and violence has arrived, and no one has got a clue what to do about it. The idea that when democracy fails violence may follow is, perhaps, not so far fetched,
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't mind a military coup,is that any help.
Then you're not a democrat.
Neither are you.
Over 50% of the people voted for parties that wanted immigration below 100,000 and Cameron has flouted that.
And in a democracy we can boot the buggers out in five years time.
That's rather the point. We can't. We don't elect those who decide our immigration policy.
Did he not remake the pledge? Did he not promise to renegotiate and if that failed to recommend leave?
This is the problem with politics, it isn't when politicians tell lies it's when they are found out. It corrodes democracy and gives legitimacy to the mob. That is a bad way to go and that is Cameron's fault.
It corrodes democracy when people throw around unjustified accusations of 'lying'.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
The point is you don't. We voted in a government to reduce immigration to less than 100,000 a year. It said it would. It promised. It can't deliver. That is one of the reasons why Leave will not be crushed.
Dave failed his immigration pledge, and the voters still voted him back in, with an increase in both seats and share of the vote.
That's democracy.
Did he not remake the pledge? Did he not promise to renegotiate and if that failed to recommend leave?
This is the problem with politics, it isn't when politicians tell lies it's when they are found out. It corrodes democracy and gives legitimacy to the mob. That is a bad way to go and that is Cameron's fault.
You're misreading Cameron's comments on the latter.
Did he not remake the pledge? Did he not promise to renegotiate and if that failed to recommend leave?
This is the problem with politics, it isn't when politicians tell lies it's when they are found out. It corrodes democracy and gives legitimacy to the mob. That is a bad way to go and that is Cameron's fault.
It corrodes democracy when people throw around unjustified accusations of 'lying'.
Missing a target is not 'lying'.
It is a lie when he knew it couldn't be Achievable .
Did he not remake the pledge? Did he not promise to renegotiate and if that failed to recommend leave?
This is the problem with politics, it isn't when politicians tell lies it's when they are found out. It corrodes democracy and gives legitimacy to the mob. That is a bad way to go and that is Cameron's fault.
It corrodes democracy when people throw around unjustified accusations of 'lying'.
Missing a target is not 'lying'.
The lying refers to saying he'd recommend leave if he didn't get what he wanted. If that's all he really wanted I'm a Dutchman.
However what ever words are used on here isn't relevant it is what is felt in the wider demos. It isn't going to be a better view of either politicians, politics or the democratic process.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
No.
Do you honestly think that the people in Greece are not petrol bombing their local plod?
The question is why are the people of Greece rioting so frequently? Could it possibly be due to their wishes and needs being ignored by the political elites?
Because the Greeks want the Eurozone countries to keep on subsidising them.
The Eurozone have said not any more.
What is it now in Greece 56% of the young people are unemployed, the country's economy is so deep in the shitter it probably is never capable of climbing out unless something really fundamental changes and they are being required by the EU to make further cuts, Cuts not only to public spending but to standards of living and job numbers. Even the IMF have said it can't go on and the plans imposed are self-defeating. Hundreds of thousands of lives are being ruined for what? For the Euro? For Politicians vanities? To stop over-extended German Banks from collapsing?
Frankly, if I were a Greek, I'd be out on the streets too.
This is Greece we are talking about, not some third world hell-hole. A member of the EU you are so keen on. The place is falling apart and violence has arrived, and no one has got a clue what to do about it. The idea that when democracy fails violence may follow is, perhaps, not so far fetched,
I would like the Eurozone countries to subsidize me too. I like Greek yogurt, I beware of Greeks baring anything, my daughter spent 2 weeks there in a school tennis tournament, and Zorba the Greek is one of my favorite movies. Isn't that enough?
I am a better financial risk than Greece, owe less, my balance of payments is better, as is my credit rating.
No, but running an economic policy based on not meeting the target (see recent Treasury Document on growth based on population increase) and not have any actual plan to meet said target might, even to the most charitable, suggest that the person who made the promise was not being entirely straightforward.
No, but running an economic policy based on not meeting the target (see recent Treasury Document on growth based on population increase) and not have any actual plan to meet said target might, even to the most charitable, suggest that the person who made the promise was not being entirely straightforward.
You mean like the Obama plan to eradicate ISIS based on not doing so?
Because the Greeks want the Eurozone countries to keep on subsidising them.
The Eurozone have said not any more.
What is it now in Greece 56% of the young people are unemployed, the country's economy is so deep in the shitter it probably is never capable of climbing out unless something really fundamental changes and they are being required by the EU to make further cuts, Cuts not only to public spending but to standards of living and job numbers. Even the IMF have said it can't go on and the plans imposed are self-defeating. Hundreds of thousands of lives are being ruined for what? For the Euro? For Politicians vanities? To stop over-extended German Banks from collapsing?
Frankly, if I were a Greek, I'd be out on the streets too.
This is Greece we are talking about, not some third world hell-hole. A member of the EU you are so keen on. The place is falling apart and violence has arrived, and no one has got a clue what to do about it. The idea that when democracy fails violence may follow is, perhaps, not so far fetched,
I would like the Eurozone countries to subsidize me too. I like Greek yogurt, I beware of Greeks baring anything, my daughter spent 2 weeks there in a school tennis tournament, and Zorba the Greek is one of my favorite movies. Isn't that enough?
I am a better financial risk than Greece, owe less, my balance of payments is better, as is my credit rating.
I'd say that's a slam dunk.
No. In the UK, in Greece's position you would be allowed to go bankrupt, and the start again.
In a countries position the IMF would insist on a debt write down. There has only been a partial one protecting German banks.
No, but running an economic policy based on not meeting the target (see recent Treasury Document on growth based on population increase) and not have any actual plan to meet said target might, even to the most charitable, suggest that the person who made the promise was not being entirely straightforward.
You mean like the Obama plan to eradicate ISIS based on not doing so?
No, because he had a plan, is executing it and it is in progress. It also appears to be making progress.
Cameron hasn't actually got a realistic plan to reduce immigration.
I wonder if all the 100,000 pledge breaking projections are harming Remain?
They keep on hammering it home - look here, Leave will damage growth by restricting immigration, just like Dave said he would but didn't actually mean.
It seems an odd strategy to openly flaunt that you're a bunch of liars.
No, but running an economic policy based on not meeting the target (see recent Treasury Document on growth based on population increase) and not have any actual plan to meet said target might, even to the most charitable, suggest that the person who made the promise was not being entirely straightforward.
You mean like the Obama plan to eradicate ISIS based on not doing so?
Could be, Mr. B I don;t follow US politics closely enough to know. From what I do pick up it seems that Obama is from the same mould as Cameron - i.e. brazenly unprincipled and quite content to say one thing and do another. Why anyone voted for either after their first term in office is beyond me (though of course over here the Conservative voters could pretend to their consciences that they were not actually voting for Cameron but for their local candidate).
Considering he is Remain's key asset, he is doing a cracking job for Leave...
"On February 21, just two days after finishing his EU renegotiation, Mr Cameron told the Andrew Marr programme: “We are going to set out in the coming days proposals to make clear the British parliament is sovereign”.
Hillary was pointing out recently that she beat Obama in 9 out of the last 12 states to vote in 2008.
I remember that, one of the reasons why I feared that Obama might lose to McCain was his lackluster campaign in the primaries, after the surprise N.Hampshire defeat he was going down hill.
The first thing that Obama did after he was nominated of course was to go for a lengthy vacation to eurore, by the time he got back McCain was in the lead. It took Lehman Brothers and Sarah Palin for Obama to win.
No, but running an economic policy based on not meeting the target (see recent Treasury Document on growth based on population increase) and not have any actual plan to meet said target might, even to the most charitable, suggest that the person who made the promise was not being entirely straightforward.
You mean like the Obama plan to eradicate ISIS based on not doing so?
No, because he had a plan, is executing it and it is in progress. It also appears to be making progress.
Cameron hasn't actually got a realistic plan to reduce immigration.
Osborne has a plan for rising immigration to achieve his budget surplus,it is rumoured ;-)
The only thing sure for now in Kentucky is that more would have voted in the Democratic Primary than the Republican Caucus, but you can't compare caucus and primary turnouts.
Hillary was pointing out recently that she beat Obama in 9 out of the last 12 states to vote in 2008.
I remember that, one of the reasons why I feared that Obama might lose to McCain was his lackluster campaign in the primaries, after the surprise N.Hampshire defeat he was going down hill.
The first thing that Obama did after he was nominated of course was to go for a lengthy vacation to eurore, by the time he got back McCain was in the lead. It took Lehman Brothers and Sarah Palin for Obama to win.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
No.
Do you honestly think that the people in Greece are not petrol bombing their local plod?
The question is why are the people of Greece rioting so frequently? Could it possibly be due to their wishes and needs being ignored by the political elites?
Because the Greeks want the Eurozone countries to keep on subsidising them.
The Eurozone have said not any more.
Ironically, the only way to stop having to continually 'bail Greece out' is to forgive/transfer the debt across the Eurozone/to the German treasury.
Which will of course never happen.
Just think, in an alternate universe Greece left the Euro 3 or more years back, and are back in the capital markets with a devalued New Drachma, growing economy, thriving tourist industry and are, a la Turkey, getting paid to help with the Migrant crisis.
Considering he is Remain's key asset, he is doing a cracking job for Leave...
"On February 21, just two days after finishing his EU renegotiation, Mr Cameron told the Andrew Marr programme: “We are going to set out in the coming days proposals to make clear the British parliament is sovereign”.
Quite, Miss P., on so many issues Cameron has said one thing then either done another or bottled out completely. Why supposedly intelligent people still apparently support him is beyond me, tribalism only goes so far surely.
No, but running an economic policy based on not meeting the target (see recent Treasury Document on growth based on population increase) and not have any actual plan to meet said target might, even to the most charitable, suggest that the person who made the promise was not being entirely straightforward.
You mean like the Obama plan to eradicate ISIS based on not doing so?
No, because he had a plan, is executing it and it is in progress. It also appears to be making progress.
Cameron hasn't actually got a realistic plan to reduce immigration.
Osborne has a plan for rising immigration to achieve his budget surplus,it is rumoured ;-)
Quite.
Still, he is an asset to the Leave campaign as are Cameron's quotes.
The only thing sure for now in Kentucky is that more would have voted in the Democratic Primary than the Republican Caucus, but you can't compare caucus and primary turnouts.
I think part of the reason for the Kentucky result is Clinton's claim that she would put coal companies and coal miners out of business.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
No.
Do you honestly think that the people in Greece are not petrol bombing their local plod?
The question is why are the people of Greece rioting so frequently? Could it possibly be due to their wishes and needs being ignored by the political elites?
Because the Greeks want the Eurozone countries to keep on subsidising them.
The Eurozone have said not any more.
Ironically, the only way to stop having to continually 'bail Greece out' is to forgive/transfer the debt across the Eurozone/to the German treasury.
Which will of course never happen.
Just think, in an alternate universe Greece left the Euro 3 or more years back, and are back in the capital markets with a devalued New Drachma, growing economy, thriving tourist industry and are, a la Turkey, getting paid to help with the Migrant crisis.
Except then there is Italy.
That said if that did happen remain may have been winning clearly by now because the EU would not look like quite such a basket case.
I wonder if all the 100,000 pledge breaking projections are harming Remain?
They keep on hammering it home - look here, Leave will damage growth by restricting immigration, just like Dave said he would but didn't actually mean.
It seems an odd strategy to openly flaunt that you're a bunch of liars.
The £4,300 figure doesn't take into account any difference between immigration in the Remain and Leave scenarios. Rather, it is a consequence of the barriers to trade that are predicted to result from leaving the EU.
I wonder if all the 100,000 pledge breaking projections are harming Remain?
They keep on hammering it home - look here, Leave will damage growth by restricting immigration, just like Dave said he would but didn't actually mean.
It seems an odd strategy to openly flaunt that you're a bunch of liars.
The £4,300 figure doesn't take into account any difference between immigration in the Remain and Leave scenarios. Rather, it is a consequence of the barriers to trade that are predicted to result from leaving the EU.
The leave scenario in the reports assumes the UK doesn't want to do much free trade which is odd as being able to negotiate our own free trade agreements is one of the planks of leave.
I wonder if all the 100,000 pledge breaking projections are harming Remain?
They keep on hammering it home - look here, Leave will damage growth by restricting immigration, just like Dave said he would but didn't actually mean.
It seems an odd strategy to openly flaunt that you're a bunch of liars.
The £4,300 figure doesn't take into account any difference between immigration in the Remain and Leave scenarios. Rather, it is a consequence of the barriers to trade that are predicted to result from leaving the EU.
Did that number of households denominator issue get settled on PB?
"He probably did mislead Parliament but like Blair he won't resign"
Of course he misled parliament, he misled the entire population, saying one thing in public and doing something else behind the scenes, it is what he does, It is what Blair did so it shouldn't be a surprise since Cameron once claimed he was the "True heir to Blair".
I wonder if all the 100,000 pledge breaking projections are harming Remain?
They keep on hammering it home - look here, Leave will damage growth by restricting immigration, just like Dave said he would but didn't actually mean.
It seems an odd strategy to openly flaunt that you're a bunch of liars.
The £4,300 figure doesn't take into account any difference between immigration in the Remain and Leave scenarios. Rather, it is a consequence of the barriers to trade that are predicted to result from leaving the EU.
Did that number of households denominator issue get settled on PB?
What was the conclusion?
In the report itself, all the figures are given in terms of GDP per capita as well as in GDP per household, where the latter figure seems to have been calculated from the first by multiplying by an assumed household size of 2.44.
There were some media reports of the number of households in 2015 being used to calculate the GDP per household in 2030, but I couldn't find the origin of the claim and couldn't see any indication for it in the report. I've no idea what the basis for the claim is.
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
Do you honestly think the UK is like apartheid era South Africa?
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't mind a military coup,is that any help.
Then you're not a democrat.
Neither are you.
Over 50% of the people voted for parties that wanted immigration below 100,000 and Cameron has flouted that.
And in a democracy we can boot the buggers out in five years time.
Voters vote on a variety of issues, not just one.
The one thing that does console me, the front man for Leave has argued for amnesty for illegal immigrants in this country.
There are honourable men and women who believe in Leave.
Comments
Leave Delenda Est
Frankly, if you are not absolutely revolted by Corbyn's behaviour, your moral compass is utterly broken. McDonnell's record is even worse. I certainly hope the public are made fully aware of the disgusting records of both of them.
And that's without even going on to the subject of Hamas and other 'friends' of the Labour leadership.
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/732678429062115328
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/732682023186370560
I guess you don't see much news from Greece these days, Mr. Eagles. Heavy duty street violence seems rather prominent over there recently. Of course people taking to the streets in nasty violence can't possibly have anything to do with not being able to get change through the democratic process, would it? See also South Africa some years back and God knows how many other places around the world.
David Cameron ditches law to make UK parliament supreme over Brussels from Queen's Speech
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/7157359/David-Cameron-ditches-law-to-enshrine-UK-parliaments-sovereignty-over-Brussels-from-Queens-Speech.html
There are reports of another plan to stop Trump - and Hillary. This time the plan is to put up a third candidate in states where neither Trump nor Clinton did well, with a view to denying either of them 270 electoral votes, and throwing the election to the House of representatives.
How realistic - or dumb - is this plan? I don't know, but it's certainly interesting.
In this country, you want to change things, you do it via the ballot box, not the by rule of the mob.
Hillary 49
Sanders 43
The count is so slow.
Do you honestly think that the people in Greece are not petrol bombing their local plod?
The question is why are the people of Greece rioting so frequently? Could it possibly be due to their wishes and needs being ignored by the political elites?
Where we are now is unique and without precedent, one such member has become a party leader. Not sure hyperbole like yours is useful or constructive. Corbyn has made no secret of what he has done, people can make up their own minds without anyone calling into question their moral compasses. I imagine that Corbyn, of whom I am no fan, may very well argue that this dialogue contributed to the peace process.
The Eurozone have said not any more.
Hillary 47
Sanders 45
In any case, my point was a moral one, not a psephological one. Sure, it's possible that voters won't be much put off by the disgusting record of Corbyn and McDonnell. That doesn't make the record any less disgusting.
It's not as though what I said is particularly controversial. Many, many decent Labour MPs. members and supporters (and even more ex-members and ex-supporters) agree, or used to agree. Some of them seem to have forgotten.
That's democracy.
On the GOP side, short of a Jim Gilmore electoral sweep, there is no excitement.
Also odd that Hillary, whose whole campaign is based on her womanhood and being the first woman president, announced she would put her husband in charge of the number 1 concern of the electorate, the economy. It's the 2 for 1 deal all over again.
Billary is back, folks!
Over 50% of the people voted for parties that wanted immigration below 100,000 and Cameron has flouted that.
Hillary 47
Sanders 46
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/gary-johnson-william-weld-vice-president-libertarian/2016/05/17/id/729298/
Sanders 47
Hillary 46
Voters vote on a variety of issues, not just one.
The one thing that does console me, the front man for Leave has argued for amnesty for illegal immigrants in this country.
There are honourable men and women who believe in Leave.
This is the problem with politics, it isn't when politicians tell lies it's when they are found out. It corrodes democracy and gives legitimacy to the mob. That is a bad way to go and that is Cameron's fault.
Frankly, if I were a Greek, I'd be out on the streets too.
This is Greece we are talking about, not some third world hell-hole. A member of the EU you are so keen on. The place is falling apart and violence has arrived, and no one has got a clue what to do about it. The idea that when democracy fails violence may follow is, perhaps, not so far fetched,
Missing a target is not 'lying'.
'Dave failed his immigration pledge, and the voters still voted him back in, with an increase in both seats and share of the vote.'
He's managed to dupe the voters twice,hopefully the voters will tell him where to go on the 23 June.
However what ever words are used on here isn't relevant it is what is felt in the wider demos. It isn't going to be a better view of either politicians, politics or the democratic process.
I am a better financial risk than Greece, owe less, my balance of payments is better, as is my credit rating.
I'd say that's a slam dunk.
No, but running an economic policy based on not meeting the target (see recent Treasury Document on growth based on population increase) and not have any actual plan to meet said target might, even to the most charitable, suggest that the person who made the promise was not being entirely straightforward.
'Fake Dave at it again.
David Cameron ditches law to make UK parliament supreme over Brussels from Queen's Speech
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/7157359/David-Cameron-ditches-law-to-enshrine-UK-parliaments-sovereignty-over-Brussels-from-Queens-Speech.htm,
Is anyone surprised ?
Is there anything he hasn't u-turned on ?
He's absolutely pathetic.
Sanders 47%
Clinton 46%
http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/ky/
Sanders 46.8%
Clinton 46.5%
http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/ky/Dem
Now by 1.1%
Or large margins in western Kentucky.
Cameron hasn't actually got a realistic plan to reduce immigration.
Highlighting that she's losing states she won 8 years ago might not be a great idea though.
They keep on hammering it home - look here, Leave will damage growth by restricting immigration, just like Dave said he would but didn't actually mean.
It seems an odd strategy to openly flaunt that you're a bunch of liars.
http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/ky/Dem
The first thing that Obama did after he was nominated of course was to go for a lengthy vacation to eurore, by the time he got back McCain was in the lead.
It took Lehman Brothers and Sarah Palin for Obama to win.
Sanders 47.8%
Clinton 44.7%
Looking now like another Sanders win, goodnight!
http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/ky/Dem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_United_States_presidential_election,_2008
Which will of course never happen.
Just think, in an alternate universe Greece left the Euro 3 or more years back, and are back in the capital markets with a devalued New Drachma, growing economy, thriving tourist industry and are, a la Turkey, getting paid to help with the Migrant crisis.
Still, he is an asset to the Leave campaign as are Cameron's quotes.
Despite the news outlets' playing it down today, this is the biggest time bomb of the campaign so far. Disgraceful.
Suzanne Evans @SuzanneEvans1
Jacob Rees-Mogg: If Cameron misled Parliament over EU referendum he HAS to resign http://shr.gs/GJRxpCN #ByeByeDave
That said if that did happen remain may have been winning clearly by now because the EU would not look like quite such a basket case.
What was the conclusion?
"He probably did mislead Parliament but like Blair he won't resign"
Of course he misled parliament, he misled the entire population, saying one thing in public and doing something else behind the scenes, it is what he does, It is what Blair did so it shouldn't be a surprise since Cameron once claimed he was the "True heir to Blair".
Her lead in Louisville is large enough to carry her to victory.
There were some media reports of the number of households in 2015 being used to calculate the GDP per household in 2030, but I couldn't find the origin of the claim and couldn't see any indication for it in the report. I've no idea what the basis for the claim is.
https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/732269444244877313
Goodnight.
Remain 44%
Leave 40%
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/women-and-labour-voters-give-remain-campaign-a-poll-boost-lbjx7vvrt