Frage is hoping to go on TV and face Dave... And destroy LEAVE in the process, thus ensuring his and UKIP's survival and keeping himself wedded to the EU gravy train.
Discuss:
The argument comes down to the economy and security (remain) and immigration (leave). I do think it will depend on just how many put the economy and security before immigration. I also suspect it will be judged by those most effected by immigration and others who do not see it as a problem and probably do not see immigration to any great extent in their communities. I do not like seeing the 'war fare' today between the two leave organisations and for vote leave to threaten a broadcaster and to imply they will get rid of those in No 10. It would indicate an error of judgement as the undecided will not like an attack on ITV or even for that matter the Bank of England. This attack is being featured on both Sky and the BBC and the general consensus is that someone has lost the plot
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
We should have had the vote last Thursday, while the entire nation was at the polling station anyway (or at least had the chance to go). The sooner this is out of the way and we can move on one way or the other the better.
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
We should have had the vote last Thursday, while the entire nation was at the polling station anyway (or at least had the chance to go). The sooner this is out of the way and we can move on one way or the other the better.
I absolutely agree that the sooner it is done the better and the Country moves on. Good job it isn't the length of the Scots referendum. Can you even imagine it. At least that is something everyone can thank David Cameron for
It begs an interesting question. Had final salary schemes not been so overly generous (in terms of contribution rate and benefit) would the private sector ever have switched over?
There is a good case that employers more easily bear the risk premium here.
That's right - however the risk that the employers were bearing was massively underpriced (i.e. benefits were too generous) and when it proved impossible to negotiate those down.
I remember my father struggling for years to keep his final salary scheme open (which he managed by making it the third best performing pension fund between 1970 and 1999 when he retired). Ultimately he and his partners had to close it, first to new members and then to all members
Very interesting. I was penning something on the subject this very day. Equally of interest there was a poll of ad agencies with 88% favouring REMAIN and just 4% LEAVE. I suspect that's why Vote Leave have failed to make an appointment. When Cummings asked if anyone fancied a £7 million piece of business the answer must have been no.
Very interesting. I was penning something on the subject this very day. Equally of interest there was a poll of ad agencies with 88% favouring REMAIN and just 4% LEAVE. I suspect that's why Vote Leave have failed to make an appointment. When Cummings asked if anyone fancied a £7 million piece of business the answer must have been no.
I was told that Leave had appointed some regional agencies but they has all insisted on strict anonymity because they didn't want to upset their pro-Remain clients.
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
Let me guess: your family will remarkably all come out for Remain in the final few days.
Please could you arrange for all teenage girls who publish ‘fish faces’ on Facebook to be slapped with a Wiff-Waff bat with a picture of Emily Pankhurst on it?
Oh I'd go the whole hog and ban Facebook and all the rest of them. Social media, my arse! People who talked to imaginary friends in their pants in their rooms when I was growing up were seen as sad losers. Why not actually go out and see your friends for real? And have real sex not just post pictures of your bottom or whatever?
Very interesting. I was penning something on the subject this very day. Equally of interest there was a poll of ad agencies with 88% favouring REMAIN and just 4% LEAVE. I suspect that's why Vote Leave have failed to make an appointment. When Cummings asked if anyone fancied a £7 million piece of business the answer must have been no.
I'd ask whether he's approaching the right ad agencies. But like professional services market (dominated by the Big 4: EY, PwC, KPMG and Deloitte) the status quo suits them very well.
There must be a very small scale unknowns who'd love the business.
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
Let me guess: your family will remarkably all come out for Remain in the final few days.
That is simply unacceptable. They are both here in North Wales and in the North of Scotland and they are genuinely unsure. Even my wife is struggling but listening to Mark Carney today she was very worried and actually felt he gave a fair assessment of the possible problems with Bexit. She still has not committed either way even so.
Very interesting. I was penning something on the subject this very day. Equally of interest there was a poll of ad agencies with 88% favouring REMAIN and just 4% LEAVE. I suspect that's why Vote Leave have failed to make an appointment. When Cummings asked if anyone fancied a £7 million piece of business the answer must have been no.
I was told that Leave had appointed some regional agencies but they has all insisted on strict anonymity because they didn't want to upset their pro-Remain clients.
Very interesting. I was penning something on the subject this very day. Equally of interest there was a poll of ad agencies with 88% favouring REMAIN and just 4% LEAVE. I suspect that's why Vote Leave have failed to make an appointment. When Cummings asked if anyone fancied a £7 million piece of business the answer must have been no.
I'd ask whether he's approaching the right ad agencies. But like professional services market (dominated by the Big 4: EY, PwC, KPMG and Deloitte) the status quo suits them very well.
There must be a very small scale unknowns who'd love the business.
It was a bloody stupid question to ask. No-one can hoover up £7 million to absolutely no effect like a marketing agency.
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
Let me guess: your family will remarkably all come out for Remain in the final few days.
That is simply unacceptable. They are both here in North Wales and in the North of Scotland and they are genuinely unsure. Even my wife is struggling but listening to Mark Carney today she was very worried and actually felt he gave a fair assessment of the possible problems with Bexit. She still has not committed either way even so.
You said on here the other week she'd come out for Remain, and you convinced her.
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
Let me guess: your family will remarkably all come out for Remain in the final few days.
That is simply unacceptable. They are both here in North Wales and in the North of Scotland and they are genuinely unsure. Even my wife is struggling but listening to Mark Carney today she was very worried and actually felt he gave a fair assessment of the possible problems with Bexit. She still has not committed either way even so.
You said on here the other week she'd come out for Remain, and you convinced her.
She has not come out for remain. She is very concerned - she hates the EU and her heart wants to leave - she is concerned on the economic impact on our family which moves her towards remain. She will vote but unlikely to be committed until the ballot. Suspect many millions are in the same position
Please could you arrange for all teenage girls who publish ‘fish faces’ on Facebook to be slapped with a Wiff-Waff bat with a picture of Emily Pankhurst on it?
Oh I'd go the whole hog and ban Facebook and all the rest of them. Social media, my arse! People who talked to imaginary friends in their pants in their rooms when I was growing up were seen as sad losers. Why not actually go out and see your friends for real? And have real sex not just post pictures of your bottom or whatever?
Very interesting. I was penning something on the subject this very day. Equally of interest there was a poll of ad agencies with 88% favouring REMAIN and just 4% LEAVE. I suspect that's why Vote Leave have failed to make an appointment. When Cummings asked if anyone fancied a £7 million piece of business the answer must have been no.
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
Let me guess: your family will remarkably all come out for Remain in the final few days.
That is simply unacceptable. They are both here in North Wales and in the North of Scotland and they are genuinely unsure. Even my wife is struggling but listening to Mark Carney today she was very worried and actually felt he gave a fair assessment of the possible problems with Bexit. She still has not committed either way even so.
You said on here the other week she'd come out for Remain, and you convinced her.
She has not come out for remain. She is very concerned - she hates the EU and her heart wants to leave - she is concerned on the economic impact on our family which moves her towards remain. She will vote but unlikely to be committed until the ballot. Suspect many millions are in the same position
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
Are there any figures on difference in gender in Remain/Leave voting intentions? I've noticed in my own extended family that the men are all much more for Leave and the women much more for Remain. Do women vote more than men in the UK (I believe they do in the US)?
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
Let me guess: your family will remarkably all come out for Remain in the final few days.
That is simply unacceptable. They are both here in North Wales and in the North of Scotland and they are genuinely unsure. Even my wife is struggling but listening to Mark Carney today she was very worried and actually felt he gave a fair assessment of the possible problems with Bexit. She still has not committed either way even so.
You said on here the other week she'd come out for Remain, and you convinced her.
She has not come out for remain. She is very concerned - she hates the EU and her heart wants to leave - she is concerned on the economic impact on our family which moves her towards remain. She will vote but unlikely to be committed until the ballot. Suspect many millions are in the same position
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
Let me guess: your family will remarkably all come out for Remain in the final few days.
That is simply unacceptable. They are both here in North Wales and in the North of Scotland and they are genuinely unsure. Even my wife is struggling but listening to Mark Carney today she was very worried and actually felt he gave a fair assessment of the possible problems with Bexit. She still has not committed either way even so.
You said on here the other week she'd come out for Remain, and you convinced her.
She has not come out for remain. She is very concerned - she hates the EU and her heart wants to leave - she is concerned on the economic impact on our family which moves her towards remain. She will vote but unlikely to be committed until the ballot. Suspect many millions are in the same position
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
Excellent point. I have always wanted to go into the tigers' enclosure at the zoo. All that has stopped me is fear.
Very interesting. I was penning something on the subject this very day. Equally of interest there was a poll of ad agencies with 88% favouring REMAIN and just 4% LEAVE. I suspect that's why Vote Leave have failed to make an appointment. When Cummings asked if anyone fancied a £7 million piece of business the answer must have been no.
Yes, because ad agencies famously never work on campaigns for products they don't personally believe in!!!
You've also got to remember that this sort of poll is at the CEO level and in terms of whether it would be good for the business or not. These businesses often have a big European presence, and the uncertainty of what Leave looks like isn't welcome for them. But a sizable agency will have a spectrum of personal opinion within it like any business, even if the balance is Remain, so (even if it really mattered) they'd be able to build a good team with people who are genuinely for Leave.
I suppose that leaves the idea that ad agencies are thinking "we might do such a brilliant job that we inadvertently hurt our business". But that seems a bit fanciful - it's a chunky, high profile bit of work and if you don't get it, someone else will, and will probably do almost as well as you would have.
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
Let me guess: your family will remarkably all come out for Remain in the final few days.
That is simply unacceptable. They are both here in North Wales and in the North of Scotland and they are genuinely unsure. Even my wife is struggling but listening to Mark Carney today she was very worried and actually felt he gave a fair assessment of the possible problems with Bexit. She still has not committed either way even so.
You said on here the other week she'd come out for Remain, and you convinced her.
She has not come out for remain. She is very concerned - she hates the EU and her heart wants to leave - she is concerned on the economic impact on our family which moves her towards remain. She will vote but unlikely to be committed until the ballot. Suspect many millions are in the same position
I don't know how to quickly search for the post where you said she was for Remain on my iPhone, and don't care enough to search, but that was not my recollection of what you said on here previously at all.
This isn't personal but I build up a view of a poster's sincerity on here based upon their past comments and behaviour.
You'll forgive me if I maintain a healthy scepticism of the veracity of your posts on who's declared for Remain and undecided in your family until I'm convinced otherwise.
There is very little balance in your posts on here on this subject, and points of view from the other side, and personally I think you want to aid the Remain campaign in any way you can.
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
You seem to be suggesting that, if it's a Leave result and Mark Carney and the NIESR etc turn out to be right, those who voted Leave will have the job losses on their consciences for the rest of their lives? Seems a bit over the top.
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
Let me guess: your family will remarkably all come out for Remain in the final few days.
That is simply unacceptable. They are both here in North Wales and in the North of Scotland and they are genuinely unsure. Even my wife is struggling but listening to Mark Carney today she was very worried and actually felt he gave a fair assessment of the possible problems with Bexit. She still has not committed either way even so.
You said on here the other week she'd come out for Remain, and you convinced her.
She has not come out for remain. She is very concerned - she hates the EU and her heart wants to leave - she is concerned on the economic impact on our family which moves her towards remain. She will vote but unlikely to be committed until the ballot. Suspect many millions are in the same position
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
Excellent point. I have always wanted to go into the tigers' enclosure at the zoo. All that has stopped me is fear.
Pah.
I am leaving now...I may be some time...
Do you know what you should do if you come across a tiger?
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
Let me guess: your family will remarkably all come out for Remain in the final few days.
That is simply unacceptable. They are both here in North Wales and in the North of Scotland and they are genuinely unsure. Even my wife is struggling but listening to Mark Carney today she was very worried and actually felt he gave a fair assessment of the possible problems with Bexit. She still has not committed either way even so.
You said on here the other week she'd come out for Remain, and you convinced her.
She has not come out for remain. She is very concerned - she hates the EU and her heart wants to leave - she is concerned on the economic impact on our family which moves her towards remain. She will vote but unlikely to be committed until the ballot. Suspect many millions are in the same position
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
Excellent point. I have always wanted to go into the tigers' enclosure at the zoo. All that has stopped me is fear.
Pah.
I am leaving now...I may be some time...
Do you know what you should do if you come across a tiger?
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
You seem to be suggesting that, if it's a Leave result and Mark Carney and the NIESR etc turn out to be right, those who voted Leave will have the job losses on their consciences for the rest of their lives? Seems a bit over the top.
"Vabid Bilge" - the mindless garbage that emanates from the PeeBee Burleys that we have to put up with day after day...
I'll have you know there are people who pay SeanT thousands of pounds for his bilge!
I quite like SeanT's bilge*. It's not going to trouble the Booker judges any time soon, granted, but it's fun and whiles away a long plane trip. And it's far better than Dan Brown's.
* His Thomas Knox novels, not tried his S. K. Tremaine ones yet.
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
You seem to be suggesting that, if it's a Leave result and Mark Carney and the NIESR etc turn out to be right, those who voted Leave will have the job losses on their consciences for the rest of their lives? Seems a bit over the top.
Only Desperate Dick could twist that around to mean the opposite of what it says
Are you actually afraid that people should vote for what they believe in rather than what they're afraid of ?
The GOP coming together before the Democrats. Could the Bernsters stay at home and win it for Trump
I doubt it, but with a bit of luck the odds might move over the next few weeks in such a way as to allow us to transfer profits from Trump to Hillary at a reasonable price.
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
You seem to be suggesting that, if it's a Leave result and Mark Carney and the NIESR etc turn out to be right, those who voted Leave will have the job losses on their consciences for the rest of their lives? Seems a bit over the top.
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
You seem to be suggesting that, if it's a Leave result and Mark Carney and the NIESR etc turn out to be right, those who voted Leave will have the job losses on their consciences for the rest of their lives? Seems a bit over the top.
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
You seem to be suggesting that, if it's a Leave result and Mark Carney and the NIESR etc turn out to be right, those who voted Leave will have the job losses on their consciences for the rest of their lives? Seems a bit over the top.
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
You seem to be suggesting that, if it's a Leave result and Mark Carney and the NIESR etc turn out to be right, those who voted Leave will have the job losses on their consciences for the rest of their lives? Seems a bit over the top.
Only Desperate Dick could twist that around to mean the opposite of what it says
Are you actually afraid that people should vote for what they believe in rather than what they're afraid of ?
Sad.
No, I'm actually making a serious point (not particularly against you, to be fair), that it is both offensive and idiotic for Leavers to try to claim such they are principled and Remainer are not. Concern about the very genuine economic risks is an entirely legitimate factor to take into account.
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
You seem to be suggesting that, if it's a Leave result and Mark Carney and the NIESR etc turn out to be right, those who voted Leave will have the job losses on their consciences for the rest of their lives? Seems a bit over the top.
Only Desperate Dick could twist that around to mean the opposite of what it says
Are you actually afraid that people should vote for what they believe in rather than what they're afraid of ?
Sad.
No, I'm actually making a serious point (not particularly against you, to be fair), that it is both offensive and idiotic for Leavers to try to claim such they are principled and Remainer are not. Concern about the economic risks is an entirely legitimate factor to take into account.
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
You seem to be suggesting that, if it's a Leave result and Mark Carney and the NIESR etc turn out to be right, those who voted Leave will have the job losses on their consciences for the rest of their lives? Seems a bit over the top.
Only Desperate Dick could twist that around to mean the opposite of what it says
Are you actually afraid that people should vote for what they believe in rather than what they're afraid of ?
Sad.
No, I'm actually making a serious point (not particularly against you, to be fair), that it is both offensive and idiotic for Leavers to try to claim such they are principled and Remainer are not. Concern about the economic risks is an entirely legitimate factor to take into account.
Please could you arrange for all teenage girls who publish ‘fish faces’ on Facebook to be slapped with a Wiff-Waff bat with a picture of Emily Pankhurst on it?
Oh I'd go the whole hog and ban Facebook and all the rest of them. Social media, my arse! People who talked to imaginary friends in their pants in their rooms when I was growing up were seen as sad losers. Why not actually go out and see your friends for real? And have real sex not just post pictures of your bottom or whatever?
Life is for living. Not viewing.
I saw somewhere that a fall in under-age sex was attributed to the growth in social media - young teenagers were (it said) too BUSY with Snapchat etc to have sex. Screwing is what your parents' generation were obsessed with and is so last century.
Every cloud has a silver lining, or not, depending on one's viewpoint...
I don't know how to quickly search for the post where you said she was for Remain on my iPhone, and don't care enough to search, but that was not my recollection of what you said on here previously at all.
This isn't personal but I build up a view of a poster's sincerity on here based upon their past comments and behaviour.
You'll forgive me if I maintain a healthy scepticism of the veracity of your posts on who's declared for Remain and undecided in your family until I'm convinced otherwise.
There is very little balance in your posts on here on this subject, and points of view from the other side, and personally I think you want to aid the Remain campaign in any way you can.
I have a pretty good memory and I am certain there are posters on here whose stories seem to be changing. That is the problem with amateur astroturfing, unless you keep a record of all the stories they will quickly be exposed as rubbish.
Then she should vote for what she actually wants not what she's afraid of.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
You seem to be suggesting that, if it's a Leave result and Mark Carney and the NIESR etc turn out to be right, those who voted Leave will have the job losses on their consciences for the rest of their lives? Seems a bit over the top.
Only Desperate Dick could twist that around to mean the opposite of what it says
Are you actually afraid that people should vote for what they believe in rather than what they're afraid of ?
Sad.
No, I'm actually making a serious point (not particularly against you, to be fair), that it is both offensive and idiotic for Leavers to try to claim such they are principled and Remainer are not. Concern about the very genuine economic risks is an entirely legitimate factor to take into account.
Im not actually making that claim.
I'm simply pointing out that any individual's vote isn't going to change much in isolation so it's best to vote for what you want, heart is better than head in this instance.
There are too many imponderables for any side to make concrete claims on their mastery future.
The Office of National Statistics has fessed up. Previously released figures on immigration from the EU into the UK have long been suspected of being somewhat… well, lower than expected.
And we’re not talking a few percentage points here or there. We’re talking factors of two or three. So the ONS tell us, for example, that in the five years to 2015, just under a million EU nationals had moved to the UK to live. Yet the number of National insurance numbers handed to EU nationals in the same period was a bit higher than that. And when I say “a bit”, I mean two and half times that amount – 2.23 million.
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
Let me guess: your family will remarkably all come out for Remain in the final few days.
That is simply unacceptable. They are both here in North Wales and in the North of Scotland and they are genuinely unsure. Even my wife is struggling but listening to Mark Carney today she was very worried and actually felt he gave a fair assessment of the possible problems with Bexit. She still has not committed either way even so.
You said on here the other week she'd come out for Remain, and you convinced her.
She has not come out for remain. She is very concerned - she hates the EU and her heart wants to leave - she is concerned on the economic impact on our family which moves her towards remain. She will vote but unlikely to be committed until the ballot. Suspect many millions are in the same position
Well get bloody rid then, and the same goes for you. She's quite right, and she should go with her gut.
People working for 6p a day in China is why our economy is up shit creek, that will still be the case whether we Remain or Leave, it has nothing to do with 4% being added to the price of brie.
I'm simply pointing out that any individual's vote isn't going to change much in isolation so it's best to vote for what you want, heart is better than head in this instance.
There are too many imponderables for any side to make concrete claims on their mastery future.
That doesn't make sense. You should vote for what you think is best for the country on balance, taking a judgement on all the information you have.
I don't know how to quickly search for the post where you said she was for Remain on my iPhone, and don't care enough to search, but that was not my recollection of what you said on here previously at all.
This isn't personal but I build up a view of a poster's sincerity on here based upon their past comments and behaviour.
You'll forgive me if I maintain a healthy scepticism of the veracity of your posts on who's declared for Remain and undecided in your family until I'm convinced otherwise.
There is very little balance in your posts on here on this subject, and points of view from the other side, and personally I think you want to aid the Remain campaign in any way you can.
I have a pretty good memory and I am certain there are posters on here whose stories seem to be changing. That is the problem with amateur astroturfing, unless you keep a record of all the stories they will quickly be exposed as rubbish.
They are never too hard to spot. When they start telling stories that coincide remarkably well with one side's preferred spin lines, for example.
Please could you arrange for all teenage girls who publish ‘fish faces’ on Facebook to be slapped with a Wiff-Waff bat with a picture of Emily Pankhurst on it?
Oh I'd go the whole hog and ban Facebook and all the rest of them. Social media, my arse! People who talked to imaginary friends in their pants in their rooms when I was growing up were seen as sad losers. Why not actually go out and see your friends for real? And have real sex not just post pictures of your bottom or whatever?
Life is for living. Not viewing.
I saw somewhere that a fall in under-age sex was attributed to the growth in social media - young teenagers were (it said) too BUSY with Snapchat etc to have sex. Screwing is what your parents' generation were obsessed with and is so last century.
Every cloud has a silver lining, or not, depending on one's viewpoint...
Another silver lining is that when you are on a train and a bunch of schoolkids come into the carriage, nowadays the chances are that they'll be near-silent.
I'm simply pointing out that any individual's vote isn't going to change much in isolation so it's best to vote for what you want, heart is better than head in this instance.
There are too many imponderables for any side to make concrete claims on their mastery future.
That doesn't make sense. You should vote for what you think is best for the country on balance, taking a judgement on all the information you have.
Including the scaremongering from Osborne, NIESR, etc.?
The sad thing is that the vast, vast majority of pieces about this issue in the thread are going to be by people far less informed, and whose pieces are far less sage as a result.
I don't think the last six weeks are crucial. I think most people have discussed this with their friends/family/colleagues and will now be more or less bound to an outcome.
Not sure about that. My family (unlike myself - remain) is not committed either way but will come to a conclusion after the debates and much nearer the time. It is all to play for in both camps but vote leave's ill judged attacks today on ITV and No 10 is an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.
Let me guess: your family will remarkably all come out for Remain in the final few days.
That is simply unacceptable. They are both here in North Wales and in the North of Scotland and they are genuinely unsure. Even my wife is struggling but listening to Mark Carney today she was very worried and actually felt he gave a fair assessment of the possible problems with Bexit. She still has not committed either way even so.
You said on here the other week she'd come out for Remain, and you convinced her.
She has not come out for remain. She is very concerned - she hates the EU and her heart wants to leave - she is concerned on the economic impact on our family which moves her towards remain. She will vote but unlikely to be committed until the ballot. Suspect many millions are in the same position
Well get bloody rid then, and the same goes for you. She's quite right, and she should go with her gut.
People working for 6p a day in China is why our economy is up shit creek, that will still be the case whether we Remain or Leave, it has nothing to do with 4% being added to the price of brie.
She will no more take lectures from you than she will from me
The Office of National Statistics has fessed up. Previously released figures on immigration from the EU into the UK have long been suspected of being somewhat… well, lower than expected.
And we’re not talking a few percentage points here or there. We’re talking factors of two or three. So the ONS tell us, for example, that in the five years to 2015, just under a million EU nationals had moved to the UK to live. Yet the number of National insurance numbers handed to EU nationals in the same period was a bit higher than that. And when I say “a bit”, I mean two and half times that amount – 2.23 million.
The Office of National Statistics has fessed up. Previously released figures on immigration from the EU into the UK have long been suspected of being somewhat… well, lower than expected.
And we’re not talking a few percentage points here or there. We’re talking factors of two or three. So the ONS tell us, for example, that in the five years to 2015, just under a million EU nationals had moved to the UK to live. Yet the number of National insurance numbers handed to EU nationals in the same period was a bit higher than that. And when I say “a bit”, I mean two and half times that amount – 2.23 million.
Boris should be all over this. Controlled immigration good uncontrolled will ruin the infrastructure we already have here. Ok so we let everyone in but it creates a housing crisis, a schools crisis, NHS overloaded etc
Whichever way you try and slice this there is a limit... There is only so many we can absorb without bringing our own standards and facilities in a downward spiral. I would prefer that we ourselves decide that not some faceless bureaucrat in Brussels.
We should stop resting people from safe countries as well. Cameron is right on this support them in safe areas close to their homes so they can return and rebuild. Of course it is also based on the politicians sorting out the wars rather than opening our doors wide.
The Office of National Statistics has fessed up. Previously released figures on immigration from the EU into the UK have long been suspected of being somewhat… well, lower than expected.
And we’re not talking a few percentage points here or there. We’re talking factors of two or three. So the ONS tell us, for example, that in the five years to 2015, just under a million EU nationals had moved to the UK to live. Yet the number of National insurance numbers handed to EU nationals in the same period was a bit higher than that. And when I say “a bit”, I mean two and half times that amount – 2.23 million.
Boris should be all over this. Controlled immigration good uncontrolled will ruin the infrastructure we have here. Ok to let then in but it creates a housing crisis, a schools crisis, NHS overloaded etc
Whichever way you try and slice this there is a limit... There is only so many we can absorb without bringing our own standards and facilities in a downward spiral. I would prefer that we ourselves decide that not some faceless bureaucrat in Brussels.
We should stop resting people from safe countries as well. Cameron is right on this support them in safe areas close to their homes so they can return and rebuild. Of course it is also based on the politicians sorting out the wars rather than opening our doors wide.
Alas they dare not put Boris anywhere near this subject, seeing that he was in favour of utterly uncontrolled immigration - an amnesty for illegal immigrants.
I'm simply pointing out that any individual's vote isn't going to change much in isolation so it's best to vote for what you want, heart is better than head in this instance.
There are too many imponderables for any side to make concrete claims on their mastery future.
That doesn't make sense. You should vote for what you think is best for the country on balance, taking a judgement on all the information you have.
I get the impression that Remainers are generally head-people while Leavers tend to be heart-people. Perhaps that's why we have difficulty making sense of each other.
This story seeming to be coming across a bit meh if the usual suspect newspaper websites are any guide. Strange.
It's a bit meh because there isn't much of a story. A load of people have visited the UK for short periods over the last few years. For that matter, a load of Brits have gone abroad for short periods. Neither are included in migration figures, never have been, and wouldn't be in any internationally-recognised migration statistics.
Don't you need an NI number for almost anything relating to work, so if you are only here temporarily you need one? In the US I needed an social security number for an unpaid internship that lasted only six months, for instance!
This story seeming to be coming across a bit meh if the usual suspect newspaper websites are any guide. Strange.
It's a bit meh because there isn't much of a story. A load of people have visited the UK for short periods. For that matter, a load of Brits have gone abroad for short periods. Neither are included in migration figures, never have been, and wouldn't be in any internationally-recognised migration statistics.
Surely the best way to measure migration is simply just to count people in and out (And not worry how long they're staying for ?)
In any 12 month period, tourists should roughly cancel...
I'm simply pointing out that any individual's vote isn't going to change much in isolation so it's best to vote for what you want, heart is better than head in this instance.
There are too many imponderables for any side to make concrete claims on their mastery future.
That doesn't make sense. You should vote for what you think is best for the country on balance, taking a judgement on all the information you have.
Sorry been cooking a frittata
you should vote for what's best for yourself - the entire country is voting on a single issue Thinking of the greater good is pointless, the exercise is to decide what that greater good is based on the opinion of 40 million electors.
Comments
M&C Saatchi has been hired by The Britain Stronger In Europe campaign to showcase its messages in the crucial final six weeks of the campaign.
https://www.totalpolitics.com/articles/news/remain-camp-turn-negative-ad-gurus-mc-saatchi-final-push
https://mobile.twitter.com/MoneyWeek/status/730419862183514113
I remember my father struggling for years to keep his final salary scheme open (which he managed by making it the third best performing pension fund between 1970 and 1999 when he retired). Ultimately he and his partners had to close it, first to new members and then to all members
No idea if it's true.
Life is for living. Not viewing.
There must be a very small scale unknowns who'd love the business.
As the poster stated " it's just mindless garbage".
Increasingly, the opposite is becoming true. Just wait until Oculus Rift and its rivals take hold, and better alternatives are developed.
The implications are enormous.
Her vote isn't going to change anything in an electorate of 40 million, but your conscience stays with you for life.
4.0
I am going have to go and bathe my wrists in ice cold water ....
Pah.
I am leaving now...I may be some time...
You've also got to remember that this sort of poll is at the CEO level and in terms of whether it would be good for the business or not. These businesses often have a big European presence, and the uncertainty of what Leave looks like isn't welcome for them. But a sizable agency will have a spectrum of personal opinion within it like any business, even if the balance is Remain, so (even if it really mattered) they'd be able to build a good team with people who are genuinely for Leave.
I suppose that leaves the idea that ad agencies are thinking "we might do such a brilliant job that we inadvertently hurt our business". But that seems a bit fanciful - it's a chunky, high profile bit of work and if you don't get it, someone else will, and will probably do almost as well as you would have.
This isn't personal but I build up a view of a poster's sincerity on here based upon their past comments and behaviour.
You'll forgive me if I maintain a healthy scepticism of the veracity of your posts on who's declared for Remain and undecided in your family until I'm convinced otherwise.
There is very little balance in your posts on here on this subject, and points of view from the other side, and personally I think you want to aid the Remain campaign in any way you can.
I'd agree with your anecdotal evidence. Women tend to be more risk averse than men generally, and this also occurred in the Scottish vote.
In voting terms, that's a net advantage for Remain.
Wipe him clean, and say sorry.
I'll get my coat
* His Thomas Knox novels, not tried his S. K. Tremaine ones yet.
Are you actually afraid that people should vote for what they believe in rather than what they're afraid of ?
Sad.
Sunil - you done your inquiry into why your ELBOW was so wrong last year?
Every cloud has a silver lining, or not, depending on one's viewpoint...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/12/finally-they-admit-it-we-havent-been-told-the-truth-about-immigr/
Garbage In, Garbage Out
The garbage in being, of course, the Opinion Polls!
Looks like they don't want to implement Swinney's cuts...
I'm simply pointing out that any individual's vote isn't going to change much in isolation so it's best to vote for what you want, heart is better than head in this instance.
There are too many imponderables for any side to make concrete claims on their mastery future.
Nota Bene. I've got the Donald horribly wrong this year.
People working for 6p a day in China is why our economy is up shit creek, that will still be the case whether we Remain or Leave, it has nothing to do with 4% being added to the price of brie.
And yes, when I consider the alternative, I'm in love with the guy...
Don't like the alternative too sadly (I still cling to the hope that Bernie can pull it off!).
Hearing that Newcastle University has voted to disaffiliate from the NUS. Awesome work, let's carry on the momentum nationwide! #No2NUS
IIRC Lincoln did so earlier this week.
The sad thing is that the vast, vast majority of pieces about this issue in the thread are going to be by people far less informed, and whose pieces are far less sage as a result.
Back Bernie Sanders 29.55 £210.22
Lay Bernie Sanders 29.15 £264.27
Yes, wonder if BSE will try targeted advertising/messages to ensure female vote turns out for Remain - haven't seen anything like that yet though ...
This story seeming to be coming across a bit meh if the usual suspect newspaper websites are any guide. Strange.
Boris should be all over this. Controlled immigration good uncontrolled will ruin the infrastructure we already have here. Ok so we let everyone in but it creates a housing crisis, a schools crisis, NHS overloaded etc
Whichever way you try and slice this there is a limit... There is only so many we can absorb without bringing our own standards and facilities in a downward spiral. I would prefer that we ourselves decide that not some faceless bureaucrat in Brussels.
We should stop resting people from safe countries as well. Cameron is right on this support them in safe areas close to their homes so they can return and rebuild. Of course it is also based on the politicians sorting out the wars rather than opening our doors wide.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ben-bradshaw/boris-johnson-day-of-blunders_b_9909588.html
In any 12 month period, tourists should roughly cancel...
you should vote for what's best for yourself - the entire country is voting on a single issue Thinking of the greater good is pointless, the exercise is to decide what that greater good is based on the opinion of 40 million electors.