Today's ICM EU Ref poll had VI Con 33 Lab 32 UKIP 17 LD 7 Others 11 UKIP support grossly inflated as in most Online polls . Reduce them to 12% and the Leave lead of 2% disappears .
He must be very confident about whatever future he has planned after politics, btw.
EU Commissioner ? Be an appropriate reward if he "docks the UK with the EU".... can't think where that phrase came from
In wonder if, five years from now, he will have outdone his hero Tony Blair in terms of becoming a despised and discredited figure. Quite possibly, I think, depending on the choices he makes.
Hardly earth shattering but better than losing them, while a repeat of the 2015 vote share implies that 12-13% of the national electorate is locked in to UK independence.
Overall, Leave need something like 70% of the right wing vote (Con/UKIP) plus 30% of the left on an assumption of uniform turnout comparable to 2015.
UKIP also outpolled the Lib Dems in the PCC elections (which took place throughout England and Wales) by 450,000.
Just as a matter of interest, how many LibDem PCC were standing? I see UKIP were almost everywhere.
UKIP is clearly withering on the vine. 2014 was its high point, but now it just looks samey and unappealing. I was lambasted on here when I called it out as a fad a few years ago, but it's interesting how many Leavers and euro-phobic Tories are now keen to distant themselves from it when back in the day they were happy to ride on its coattails. I can't see UKIP lasting, though Carswell will probably linger on as a kind of novelty independent.
UKIP came first in the UK's European elections and has the most MEPS of any national group in the EU parliament.
..... and the EU parliament is where 70% of UK laws are approved my the MEPs.
What is it about Leavers that makes them turn into Putin fanboys?
Shame on Boris. I hope he didn't find any polyps up there.
Let's face it, if Satan came out for Brexit most of the Leavers would turn against God.
I do worry if Remains win, some of the passionate Leavers might go all Jonestown
Where as if Leave win, that 50 or so Tory sceptics that decided to back Remain because Dave asked/cajoled/threatened them, will suddenly have a Damascene conversion, or claim they were misunderstood, possibly behaving under duress, the possibilities are endless
Today's ICM EU Ref poll had VI Con 33 Lab 32 UKIP 17 LD 7 Others 11 UKIP support grossly inflated as in most Online polls . Reduce them to 12% and the Leave lead of 2% disappears .
LOL. You don't like part of their numbers so you change those, but do you like other bits so you keep them, and yet both bits come from the same sample.
What is it about Leavers that makes them turn into Putin fanboys?
Shame on Boris. I hope he didn't find any polyps up there.
Let's face it, if Satan came out for Brexit most of the Leavers would turn against God.
I do worry if Remains win, some of the passionate Leavers might go all Jonestown
Sometimes, in fact quite often, you espouse the most infantile rubbish. Oh I know I've had my share, but you are supposed to be better; a Carrier of the Thread no less and shining light when the Master is away.
What is it about Leavers that makes them turn into Putin fanboys?
Shame on Boris. I hope he didn't find any polyps up there.
Let's face it, if Satan came out for Brexit most of the Leavers would turn against God.
I do worry if Remains win, some of the passionate Leavers might go all Jonestown
I'm not so pessimistic. For most Leavers a Remain victory will come as a blessed relief. They can finally rid themselves of this nasty obsession and get on with their lives. I speak as someone who was a rabid euro-phobe for years. I've found that being a convert to Remain is almost therapeutic - you feel relaxed, stable and true to yourself.
I've been wondering about this. I certainly expected a stronger showing from UKIP in England and also for Peter Whittle to challenge for third place in London.
How to interpret it though? Is it a straw in the wind for the referendum or is it just that UKIP itself is increasingly hapless and disorganised?
He was out-bonkered by two guys even further to the right, who campaigned almost exclusively on immigration and made him look like a boring centrist. Add the BNP and Britain First guys to UKIP and they hit 5.3% together, putting them above the LibDems and just behind the Greens. But in fairness you have to say that some people who voted UKIP would not have touched them if they'd been in bed with Britain First.
Some? Read the Ukip sympathisers on here and tell me what they have in common with Britain First please.
Some ukip voters are obsessed with immigration and race and see ukip as an acceptable/respectable way of expressing their views at the ballot box. These people in many cases would never contemplate voting for an overtly racist party. Mr Palmer makes a fair point. You are correct to say ukip leaning supporters on here have little or nothing in common with Britain First. That is irrelevant to the comment made so the faux outrage was unnecessary.
Oh, faux outrage, is that the same faux outrage when Labour are accused of anti semitism?
I'm sick of people hinting at racism in Ukip
It would help if their candidates stopped giving everybody the 'wrong' impression. "They just had to suspend someone for wanting to shoot an Asian if he became Prime Minister. And a couple of days before that it was for anti-semitic abuse. And before that there was lady who just doesn’t like the faces of negroes. Janice Atkinson - now expelled from the party for financial irregularities - called someone a “ting-tong”"
See what I mean? Cry racist all you like mate, but get your own house in order first, the cat is out of the bag.
At PMQs I'd like to ask who he thinks the war will involve. In the 1930s it wouldn't have been too hard to predict.
Perhaps the well known warmongers Malta will nuke us in early July
Before we do that perhaps he can explain how we can simultaneously be both too poor, too small and too weak to go it alone, but also able to cause the EU economy to implode and start World War Three if we leave, its a paradox
What is it about Leavers that makes them turn into Putin fanboys?
Shame on Boris. I hope he didn't find any polyps up there.
Let's face it, if Satan came out for Brexit most of the Leavers would turn against God.
I do worry if Remains win, some of the passionate Leavers might go all Jonestown
Where as if Leave win, that 50 or so Tory sceptics that decided to back Remain because Dave asked/cajoled/threatened them, will suddenly have a Damascene conversion, or claim they were misunderstood, possibly behaving under duress, the possibilities are endless
What is it about Leavers that makes them turn into Putin fanboys?
Shame on Boris. I hope he didn't find any polyps up there.
Let's face it, if Satan came out for Brexit most of the Leavers would turn against God.
I do worry if Remains win, some of the passionate Leavers might go all Jonestown
I'm not so pessimistic. For most Leavers a Remain victory will come as a blessed relief. They can finally rid themselves of this nasty obsession and get on with their lives. I speak as someone who was a rabid euro-phobe for years. I've found that being a convert to Remain is almost therapeutic - you feel relaxed, stable and true to yourself.
Today's ICM EU Ref poll had VI Con 33 Lab 32 UKIP 17 LD 7 Others 11 UKIP support grossly inflated as in most Online polls . Reduce them to 12% and the Leave lead of 2% disappears .
Remove UKIP supporters altogether, and Remain have a big lead.
An inaccurate poll is one that gives you a message you don't want to hear.
At PMQs I'd like to ask who he thinks the war will involve. In the 1930s it wouldn't have been too hard to predict.
Perhaps the well known warmongers Malta will nuke us in early July
Before we do that perhaps he can explain how we can simultaneously be both too poor, too small and too weak to go it alone, but also able to cause the EU economy to implode and start World War Three if we leave, its a paradox
Not if you are talking to two entirely different audiences. Which is what they are trying to do.
Another habit picked up from their chums the Lib Dems.
I've been wondering about this. I certainly expected a stronger showing from UKIP in England and also for Peter Whittle to challenge for third place in London.
How to interpret it though? Is it a straw in the wind for the referendum or is it just that UKIP itself is increasingly hapless and disorganised?
He was out-bonkered by two guys even further to the right, who campaigned almost exclusively on immigration and made him look like a boring centrist. Add the BNP and Britain First guys to UKIP and they hit 5.3% together, putting them above the LibDems and just behind the Greens. But in fairness you have to say that some people who voted UKIP would not have touched them if they'd been in bed with Britain First.
Some? Read the Ukip sympathisers on here and tell me what they have in common with Britain First please.
Some ukip voters are obsessed with immigration and race and see ukip as an acceptable/respectable way of expressing their views at the ballot box. These people in many cases would never contemplate voting for an overtly racist party. Mr Palmer makes a fair point. You are correct to say ukip leaning supporters on here have little or nothing in common with Britain First. That is irrelevant to the comment made so the faux outrage was unnecessary.
Oh, faux outrage, is that the same faux outrage when Labour are accused of anti semitism?
I'm sick of people hinting at racism in Ukip
It would help if their candidates stopped giving everybody the 'wrong' impression. "They just had to suspend someone for wanting to shoot an Asian if he became Prime Minister. And a couple of days before that it was for anti-semitic abuse. And before that there was lady who just doesn’t like the faces of negroes. Janice Atkinson - now expelled from the party for financial irregularities - called someone a “ting-tong”"
See what I mean? Cry racist all you like mate, but get your own house in order first, the cat is out of the bag.
I've been wondering about this. I certainly expected a stronger showing from UKIP in England and also for Peter Whittle to challenge for third place in London.
How to interpret it though? Is it a straw in the wind for the referendum or is it just that UKIP itself is increasingly hapless and disorganised?
He was out-bonkered by two guys even further to the right, who campaigned almost exclusively on immigration and made him look like a boring centrist. Add the BNP and Britain First guys to UKIP and they hit 5.3% together, putting them above the LibDems and just behind the Greens. But in fairness you have to say that some people who voted UKIP would not have touched them if they'd been in bed with Britain First.
Some? Read the Ukip sympathisers on here and tell me what they have in common with Britain First please.
Some ukip voters are obsessed with immigration and race and see ukip as an acceptable/respectable way of expressing their views at the ballot box. These people in many cases would never contemplate voting for an overtly racist party. Mr Palmer makes a fair point. You are correct to say ukip leaning supporters on here have little or nothing in common with Britain First. That is irrelevant to the comment made so the faux outrage was unnecessary.
Oh, faux outrage, is that the same faux outrage when Labour are accused of anti semitism?
I'm sick of people hinting at racism in Ukip
It would help if their candidates stopped giving everybody the 'wrong' impression. "They just had to suspend someone for wanting to shoot an Asian if he became Prime Minister. And a couple of days before that it was for anti-semitic abuse. And before that there was lady who just doesn’t like the faces of negroes. Janice Atkinson - now expelled from the party for financial irregularities - called someone a “ting-tong”"
See what I mean? Cry racist all you like mate, but get your own house in order first, the cat is out of the bag.
@steve_hawkes: Jeremy Corbyn will tonight tell MPs: "Last week’s elections showed Labour’s recovery has begun in earnest."
Welll that should get a good laugh from the audience...I wonder what other zingers he has got to amuse the crowd with? Did I ever tell you the one about adolf before he went a but mad? ;-)
@MrHarryCole: Jez: "don’t think Labour MPs should be parading on the media to give a running commentary on our party". He should tell his old mate Ken.
Welll that should get a good laugh from the audience...I wonder what other zingers he has got to amuse the crowd with? Did I ever tell you the one about adolf before he went a but mad? ;-)
@MrHarryCole: Corbyn: "I don’t expect, or even want, blind loyalty"
@MrHarryCole: Jez: "don’t think Labour MPs should be parading on the media to give a running commentary on our party". He should tell his old mate Ken.
Today's ICM EU Ref poll had VI Con 33 Lab 32 UKIP 17 LD 7 Others 11 UKIP support grossly inflated as in most Online polls . Reduce them to 12% and the Leave lead of 2% disappears .
Remove UKIP supporters altogether, and Remain have a big lead.
An inaccurate poll is one that gives you a message you don't want to hear.
An accurate poll is one that deludes you into thinking it is correct .
Today's ICM EU Ref poll had VI Con 33 Lab 32 UKIP 17 LD 7 Others 11 UKIP support grossly inflated as in most Online polls . Reduce them to 12% and the Leave lead of 2% disappears .
Remove UKIP supporters altogether, and Remain have a big lead.
An inaccurate poll is one that gives you a message you don't want to hear.
An accurate poll is one that deludes you into thinking it is correct .
Curious to understand what Labour voters see to trust in Corbyn's EU position. He has one arse cheek in Remain, one in Leave as he unconvincingly says he will fall on the Remain side of the fence....
I think he speaks for rather a lot of Remainers - they feel the EU has serious flaws, but don't think it's wise to withdraw. Real EU enthusiasts like me are thin on the ground in all parties. As in other areas, Corbyn is being a lot more honest than Cameron, whose enthusiasm for membership is as unconvincing as his previous suggestion that he hadn't quite decided - in reality I think he's lukewarm too.
What is it about Leavers that makes them turn into Putin fanboys?
Shame on Boris. I hope he didn't find any polyps up there.
Let's face it, if Satan came out for Brexit most of the Leavers would turn against God.
I do worry if Remains win, some of the passionate Leavers might go all Jonestown
I'm not so pessimistic. For most Leavers a Remain victory will come as a blessed relief. They can finally rid themselves of this nasty obsession and get on with their lives. I speak as someone who was a rabid euro-phobe for years. I've found that being a convert to Remain is almost therapeutic - you feel relaxed, stable and true to yourself.
Incidentally, I've seen a few posters around Sheffield lately, saying 'Sheffield' and 'Quit', in large letters.
When I first saw these posters, from a distance of a few hundred feet, I thought they were from the Leave campaign, but then I got close enough to read the rest of the writing and realised they're actually from an anti-smoking campaign, telling Sheffield to quit smoking not the EU.
The election would have to be on a knife-edge to be swung by this kind of subliminal effect, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if it influenced a few people.
@MrHarryCole: Jez: "don’t think Labour MPs should be parading on the media to give a running commentary on our party". He should tell his old mate Ken.
Indeed. Much better to be commenting on another European party much in evidence between 1920 and 1945.
What is it about Leavers that makes them turn into Putin fanboys?
Shame on Boris. I hope he didn't find any polyps up there.
Let's face it, if Satan came out for Brexit most of the Leavers would turn against God.
I do worry if Remains win, some of the passionate Leavers might go all Jonestown
I'm not so pessimistic. For most Leavers a Remain victory will come as a blessed relief. They can finally rid themselves of this nasty obsession and get on with their lives. I speak as someone who was a rabid euro-phobe for years. I've found that being a convert to Remain is almost therapeutic - you feel relaxed, stable and true to yourself.
Inflamatory and insulting language "nasty obsession". Please be polite. Otherwise some of us will start calling folk like you a cupid stunt.
Well as forecasted the victor of the dueling speeches on Brexit today was Boris.
It was well evident that Cameron tried to write a new speech from the beginning after the hostility of it's reception last night, and it was a complete and boring mess, setting a low bar which Boris went over.
What is it about Leavers that makes them turn into Putin fanboys?
Shame on Boris. I hope he didn't find any polyps up there.
Let's face it, if Satan came out for Brexit most of the Leavers would turn against God.
I do worry if Remains win, some of the passionate Leavers might go all Jonestown
I'm not so pessimistic. For most Leavers a Remain victory will come as a blessed relief. They can finally rid themselves of this nasty obsession and get on with their lives. I speak as someone who was a rabid euro-phobe for years. I've found that being a convert to Remain is almost therapeutic - you feel relaxed, stable and true to yourself.
Inflamatory and insulting language "nasty obsession". Please be polite. Otherwise some of us will start calling folk like you a cupid stunt.
I think he is maybe getting too much "blessed relief" as he types.
Cameron thinks if we leave the EU there will be a war.
Best then if we get in first and choose who to fight.
Traditionally that might be to fight Germany, France or Spain.
But we have never been at war with Portugal - lets invade the Algarve and annex their piri piri chicken.
Portugal is our oldest ally - since 1373 if memory serves and, I think the only country in Europe that we have never fought against (though some of the newer ones might have been an enemy under old colonial arrangements). It is also a wonderful place and the Portuguese are jolly nice people (home to a branch of the Llama clan) who enjoy many of the same things we traditional Brits do, queuing, afternoon tea, messing about in boats/ships, etc..
It takes a special type of diplomatic skill to ensure that after 600 and odd years we and the Portuguese are on opposite sides of an important argument.
@faisalislam: PM welcomes fact Chilcot published on July 6th "without need for any redactions" after two weeks of natsec checks https://t.co/qDuEQAtfcb
Cameron thinks if we leave the EU there will be a war.
Best then if we get in first and choose who to fight.
Traditionally that might be to fight Germany, France or Spain.
But we have never been at war with Portugal - lets invade the Algarve and annex their piri piri chicken.
Portugal is our oldest ally - since 1373 if memory serves and, I think the only country in Europe that we have never fought against (though some of the newer ones might have been an enemy under old colonial arrangements). It is also a wonderful place and the Portuguese are jolly nice people (home to a branch of the Llama clan) who enjoy many of the same things we traditional Brits do, queuing, afternoon tea, messing about in boats/ships, etc..
It takes a special type of diplomatic skill to ensure that after 600 and odd years we and the Portuguese are on opposite sides of an important argument.
Oh it's simple, Portugal decided to join Spain in entering the EEC in 1986.
@faisalislam: PM welcomes fact Chilcot published on July 6th "without need for any redactions" after two weeks of natsec checks https://t.co/qDuEQAtfcb
It will have been redacted before the NatSec checks.
What is it about Leavers that makes them turn into Putin fanboys?
Shame on Boris. I hope he didn't find any polyps up there.
Let's face it, if Satan came out for Brexit most of the Leavers would turn against God.
I do worry if Remains win, some of the passionate Leavers might go all Jonestown
I'm not so pessimistic. For most Leavers a Remain victory will come as a blessed relief. They can finally rid themselves of this nasty obsession and get on with their lives. I speak as someone who was a rabid euro-phobe for years. I've found that being a convert to Remain is almost therapeutic - you feel relaxed, stable and true to yourself.
Excellent! It's a lovely feeling, isn't it? You'll also find it has massive intellectual benefits. For example, unshackled from dogma, you can take a step back and punctiliously analyse the Leave commentary on here - a lot of it really is the most vapid, self-congratulating drivel.
Presumably Sir John Chilcot takes a fortnight break after the Referendum. Then he gets down to the task of negotiating a new trade deal with the USA at the behest of the Leavers. 7 years sounds about right for that job too.
I had a read of Cameron's speech today and found it the usual vacuous waffle. There's the usual undercurrent that it's somehow unpatriotic to be opposed to whatever position he's trying to argue - it's a Blairite tactic to wrap yourself in the flag if your argument doesn't cover your embarrassment.
As Turkey and Norway seem quite happy to be part of European defence without being members of the EU while Ireland is happy to be part of the EU without being part of European defence, I don't understand Cameron's argument about the relevance of the EU in terms of security and defence. It's perfectly possible for nations to co-operate and collaborate without having to be in the same economic bloc.
Once again we shouldn't get hung up on campaign rhetoric - what people say before the result and what they'll say after the result are often two entirely different things. It doesn't benefit the EU or the UK to have an adversarial trading relationship so a new arrangement will be quickly formulated.
As to Cameron's persistent line about LEAVE not explaining its position, the same is true of REMAIN. Neither can afford a coherent vision of Britain's relationship with EU in 2020, let alone 2030 or beyond. LEAVE is constructing a series of negotiating positions (or should be) for the talks following the vote. LEAVE should be asking - what do we want and on what will we compromise ?
REMAIN has said nothing about the future either and in truth Cameron's "reforms" are not guaranteed in the event of a change of Government or Conservative leader. When the next "crisis", it's not as though anyone will be convinced by another Conservative Prime Minister, as Major and Cameron, flouncing or refusing to negotiate ?
He must be very confident about whatever future he has planned after politics, btw.
EU Commissioner ? Be an appropriate reward if he "docks the UK with the EU".... can't think where that phrase came from
In wonder if, five years from now, he will have outdone his hero Tony Blair in terms of becoming a despised and discredited figure. ....
What do you mean in five years from now? OK, I was never taken on the great snake oil salesman and had him marked down as a charlatan long before his election in 1997 but should you be sad enough to look at my posts on here on the run-up to the 2010 GE you will find me a big Cameron supporter. Now I wouldn't piss in his ear if his brain was on fire, that Mr. Nabavi, who I respect immensely, considers Cameron one of the great post-war prime ministers is beyond my comprehension.
Trump has gained 12 points in net favourables among his own party since he was declared the nominee, he is approaching Hillary in levels of party unity.
What is it about Leavers that makes them turn into Putin fanboys?
Shame on Boris. I hope he didn't find any polyps up there.
Let's face it, if Satan came out for Brexit most of the Leavers would turn against God.
I do worry if Remains win, some of the passionate Leavers might go all Jonestown
I'm not so pessimistic. For most Leavers a Remain victory will come as a blessed relief. They can finally rid themselves of this nasty obsession and get on with their lives. I speak as someone who was a rabid euro-phobe for years. I've found that being a convert to Remain is almost therapeutic - you feel relaxed, stable and true to yourself.
Excellent! It's a lovely feeling, isn't it? You'll also find it has massive intellectual benefits. For example, unshackled from dogma, you can take a step back and punctiliously analyse the Leave commentary on here - a lot of it really is the most vapid, self-congratulating drivel.
You underestimate yourself, I can only dream of acquiring your level of intellect.
What is it about Leavers that makes them turn into Putin fanboys?
Shame on Boris. I hope he didn't find any polyps up there.
Let's face it, if Satan came out for Brexit most of the Leavers would turn against God.
I do worry if Remains win, some of the passionate Leavers might go all Jonestown
I'm not so pessimistic. For most Leavers a Remain victory will come as a blessed relief. They can finally rid themselves of this nasty obsession and get on with their lives. I speak as someone who was a rabid euro-phobe for years. I've found that being a convert to Remain is almost therapeutic - you feel relaxed, stable and true to yourself.
Excellent! It's a lovely feeling, isn't it? You'll also find it has massive intellectual benefits. For example, unshackled from dogma, you can take a step back and punctiliously analyse the Leave commentary on here - a lot of it really is the most vapid, self-congratulating drivel.
Mr. Meeks, there are various editions, but I believe the full versions of both Three Kingdoms and Outlaws of the Marsh are longer than all the Harry Potter books.
Sadly, not well-known enough for such a list, though.
Chilcot report published after referendum shocker.
What "referendum shocker" ? ....
Haven't you heard the great conspiracy theory? Apparently if Chilcot drags Blair and Mandelson's names through the mud it will do immeasurable damage to Remain, so Chilcot has been leant on by Cameron and Brussels.
I see Jack Straw is all over the media this pm. Is he on some kind of charm offensive pre-Chilcot? Saw Paddy Ashdown earlier putting the boot into Boris. They just never go away these "senior" politicians do they? They just hang around like a bad smell. Why do they think anyone is remotely interested in anything they have to say?
The only conclusion one can draw from Cameron's risky, premature, overcooked and oddly faltering statement today is that private polling has caused an outbreak of political dysentery at Number 10.
They're scared.
Now you are up to something.
I had the same feeling when Ted Cruz first rushed an alliance with Kasich, then named Fiorina as his VP, and then rushed Governor Pence for his endorsement. His Indiana internal polls would have been horrendous, and indeed they were.
I see Jack Straw is all over the media this pm. Is he on some kind of charm offensive pre-Chilcot? Saw Paddy Ashdown earlier putting the boot into Boris. They just never go away these "senior" politicians do they? They just hang around like a bad smell. Why do they think anyone is remotely interested in anything they have to say?
We might be very interested in what Straw has to say when Chilcot comes out.
It's an absolute disgrace that the Chilcot report is so long. The idea is to form judgements, not to provide compendia of views. Just because we have the word processing power doesn't mean that we should use it.
The only conclusion one can draw from Cameron's risky, premature, overcooked and oddly faltering statement today is that private polling has caused an outbreak of political dysentery at Number 10.
They're scared.
More than scared. Throwing insults at Gove today really is the last straw.
I suspect DC knows the game is up. Polling might either showing 60+% of the Tory party vote will break for Leave or the actual referendum is leaning Leave.
If the former, he has destroyed his party, if the latter, he has entirely ballsed up the renegotiation strategy.
Chilcot report published after referendum shocker.
What "referendum shocker" ? ....
Haven't you heard the great conspiracy theory? Apparently if Chilcot drags Blair and Mandelson's names through the mud it will do immeasurable damage to Remain, so Chilcot has been leant on by Cameron and Brussels.
Anything is more possible than Chilcot actually needing so much time to write his report.
It's an absolute disgrace that the Chilcot report is so long. The idea is to form judgements, not to provide compendia of views. Just because we have the word processing power doesn't mean that we should use it.
Chilcot report published after referendum shocker.
What "referendum shocker" ? ....
Haven't you heard the great conspiracy theory? Apparently if Chilcot drags Blair and Mandelson's names through the mud it will do immeasurable damage to Remain, so Chilcot has been leant on by Cameron and Brussels.
Apologies but I haven't had my briefing from Finchley Road on the issue.
I see Jack Straw is all over the media this pm. Is he on some kind of charm offensive pre-Chilcot? Saw Paddy Ashdown earlier putting the boot into Boris. They just never go away these "senior" politicians do they? They just hang around like a bad smell. Why do they think anyone is remotely interested in anything they have to say?
Paddy Ashdown.. which one was he again ? and is that Hatty I see the other side of Dave joining the leftie jamboree ?
Classical history is full of heroic chaps, great battles, treachery, woe and doom.
So is modern history, Mr. D., just that we tend not to go in for blinding political opponents. All the rest is there: Heroic chaps and great battles I can give you bucket loads just from WWII, likewise treachery, woe and doom. People are people, the human instincts and behaviours 2,000 year ago are not very different from those we see now, only the context has changed.
Chilcot report published after referendum shocker.
What "referendum shocker" ? ....
Haven't you heard the great conspiracy theory? Apparently if Chilcot drags Blair and Mandelson's names through the mud it will do immeasurable damage to Remain, so Chilcot has been leant on by Cameron and Brussels.
The report is ready and complete. Chilcott and Cameron have agreed on a date after the referendum. The question then follows is why?
Quite a nice selection, going by the contents. Mix of ancient and modern. Only a few pages each. Nice to see Leuctra in there (the battle where the Thebans under Epaminondas first used the oblique order to smash the Spartans).
@faisalislam: PM welcomes fact Chilcot published on July 6th "without need for any redactions" after two weeks of natsec checks https://t.co/qDuEQAtfcb
It will have been redacted before the NatSec checks.
IF the story is true. It must have had a neutron star's worth of whitewash hosed over it.
Chilcot report published after referendum shocker.
What "referendum shocker" ? ....
Haven't you heard the great conspiracy theory? Apparently if Chilcot drags Blair and Mandelson's names through the mud it will do immeasurable damage to Remain, so Chilcot has been leant on by Cameron and Brussels.
The report is ready and complete. Chilcott and Cameron have agreed on a date after the referendum. The question then follows is why?
Because it's guaranteed to dominate the media for a while and will distract from the campaign. There's no need to look for conspiracies.
He must be very confident about whatever future he has planned after politics, btw.
EU Commissioner ? Be an appropriate reward if he "docks the UK with the EU".... can't think where that phrase came from
In wonder if, five years from now, he will have outdone his hero Tony Blair in terms of becoming a despised and discredited figure. ....
What do you mean in five years from now? OK, I was never taken on the great snake oil salesman and had him marked down as a charlatan long before his election in 1997 but should you be sad enough to look at my posts on here on the run-up to the 2010 GE you will find me a big Cameron supporter. Now I wouldn't piss in his ear if his brain was on fire, that Mr. Nabavi, who I respect immensely, considers Cameron one of the great post-war prime ministers is beyond my comprehension.
LOL
you're in full flow Mr Llama
I must admit I have been amazed at just how low Cameron will sink to win this vote. The daft thing is of course he won't lance the boil, becasue he hasn't had a truthful debate. He has simply stoked the fires of people believing they have been short changed.
Comments
Best then if we get in first and choose who to fight.
Traditionally that might be to fight Germany, France or Spain.
But we have never been at war with Portugal - lets invade the Algarve and annex their piri piri chicken.
Perhaps the well known warmongers Malta will nuke us in early July
The quotation is about what UKIP candidates have said.
I don't have a house that needs getting in order or a cat.
However for your delight here's another UKIP candidate apologising for guess what? They are very easy to find.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-05-05/ukip-candidate-apologises-for-sexist-racist-violent-comments-about-female-journalist/
An inaccurate poll is one that gives you a message you don't want to hear.
Another habit picked up from their chums the Lib Dems.
Please explain what I'm digging, I haven't denied any of the allegations.
http://order-order.com/2016/05/09/cameron-willing-to-risk-world-war-3-over-migrant-benefit-changes/
http://order-order.com/2016/05/09/scargill-disgusted-with-corbyn/
When I first saw these posters, from a distance of a few hundred feet, I thought they were from the Leave campaign, but then I got close enough to read the rest of the writing and realised they're actually from an anti-smoking campaign, telling Sheffield to quit smoking not the EU.
The election would have to be on a knife-edge to be swung by this kind of subliminal effect, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if it influenced a few people.
It was well evident that Cameron tried to write a new speech from the beginning after the hostility of it's reception last night, and it was a complete and boring mess, setting a low bar which Boris went over.
It takes a special type of diplomatic skill to ensure that after 600 and odd years we and the Portuguese are on opposite sides of an important argument.
It would at least give us something for all the millions spent on ancient history.
I had a read of Cameron's speech today and found it the usual vacuous waffle. There's the usual undercurrent that it's somehow unpatriotic to be opposed to whatever position he's trying to argue - it's a Blairite tactic to wrap yourself in the flag if your argument doesn't cover your embarrassment.
As Turkey and Norway seem quite happy to be part of European defence without being members of the EU while Ireland is happy to be part of the EU without being part of European defence, I don't understand Cameron's argument about the relevance of the EU in terms of security and defence. It's perfectly possible for nations to co-operate and collaborate without having to be in the same economic bloc.
Once again we shouldn't get hung up on campaign rhetoric - what people say before the result and what they'll say after the result are often two entirely different things. It doesn't benefit the EU or the UK to have an adversarial trading relationship so a new arrangement will be quickly formulated.
As to Cameron's persistent line about LEAVE not explaining its position, the same is true of REMAIN. Neither can afford a coherent vision of Britain's relationship with EU in 2020, let alone 2030 or beyond. LEAVE is constructing a series of negotiating positions (or should be) for the talks following the vote. LEAVE should be asking - what do we want and on what will we compromise ?
REMAIN has said nothing about the future either and in truth Cameron's "reforms" are not guaranteed in the event of a change of Government or Conservative leader. When the next "crisis", it's not as though anyone will be convinced by another Conservative Prime Minister, as Major and Cameron, flouncing or refusing to negotiate ?
Word counts:
War and Peace: 560,000
King James Bible: 780,000
Harry Potter books: 1.1 million
Chilcot Report: 2.6 million
h/t @PickardJE
Classical history is full of heroic chaps, great battles, treachery, woe and doom.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/189299/presidential-election-2016-key-indicators.aspx?g_source=ELECTION_2016&g_medium=topic&g_campaign=tiles
Trump has gained 12 points in net favourables among his own party since he was declared the nominee, he is approaching Hillary in levels of party unity.
Sadly, not well-known enough for such a list, though.
Clinton 34 .. Trump 29
Sample 362
http://rockefeller.dartmouth.edu/sites/rockefeller.drupalmulti-prod.dartmouth.edu/files/nh_state_of_the_state_2016_report.pdf
I had the same feeling when Ted Cruz first rushed an alliance with Kasich, then named Fiorina as his VP, and then rushed Governor Pence for his endorsement.
His Indiana internal polls would have been horrendous, and indeed they were.
I suspect DC knows the game is up. Polling might either showing 60+% of the Tory party vote will break for Leave or the actual referendum is leaning Leave.
If the former, he has destroyed his party, if the latter, he has entirely ballsed up the renegotiation strategy.
Incidentally, was idly browsing and saw this recently (History of War in 100 Battles): https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0007452500/
Quite a nice selection, going by the contents. Mix of ancient and modern. Only a few pages each. Nice to see Leuctra in there (the battle where the Thebans under Epaminondas first used the oblique order to smash the Spartans).
you're in full flow Mr Llama
I must admit I have been amazed at just how low Cameron will sink to win this vote. The daft thing is of course he won't lance the boil, becasue he hasn't had a truthful debate. He has simply stoked the fires of people believing they have been short changed.