Mr. Crosby, I'd be staggered if Labour got low 20s. Not impossible with Corbyn, but the votes have to go somewhere. The Conservatives won't be fresh as a daisy and the SNP's support is, obviously, geographically limited.
The only way Labour get low 20s is if UKIP and/or the Lib Dems have a fantastic result.
Mr. L, Javid's a lightweight with a nice backstory.
Miss Cyclefree, didn't know Khan had spoken up in favour of a blasphemy law. That's rancid.
It's why I have been saying for weeks that I think there are real question marks over his judgment. And why I am sceptical - though willing to be proved wrong - about his claim that he is the man to take the fight to the terrorists/extremists. If there's one thing they want is an Islamic blasphemy law - they are prepared to kill for it, after all - and our new Mayor thinks that there should be one. Taking on extremists?? Pull the other one.
Delighted though I am with Ruth's triumph it does seem to me that a lot of the comments on here are seriously underrating Sturgeon's success. The result in 2011 was something of a freak, a combination of constituency and list wins that maximised the efficiency of the SNP vote in a way that was unlikely to be repeated. It was also achieved because there was a very strong desire to force through a referendum by (thankfully) just less than half of the Scottish people.
To retain the same level of dominance once that referendum has been lost is a remarkable achievement. The SNP constituency vote went up and they picked up more of the Labour fiefdoms destroying them in Glasgow. Winning the Council there next year looks like a formality now.
Under the list system majorities should be almost impossible and Nicola came very close. Like Ruth she has profited from Labour's collapse into irrelevance but like her she has also taken full advantage. As a political party the SNP remain sensationally successful and only those who regard everything other than independence itself as immaterial could say otherwise. The winners in the UK yesterday were Nicola, Ruth and Sadiq in roughly that order. Everyone else lost.
IA I wonder why Mandela did not use his Ethical and Political power to improve the lives of the township dwellers..they still luxuriate in the same shitty conditions they had when he was sent to Prison..did nothing for them when he came out..enriched himself and a few buddies tho..
Mr. L, if we assume you're right, who does that mean would be best as next Conservative leader?
I don't have a name but it really should not be pretty much any of the current front runners. I thought Sajid Javid looked a real possibility but he has disappointed so far in office. Characters are rare in modern politics but if there is one central theme from yesterday's results it is that character and personality are of increasing importance and political dogmatism less so. Yet another way in which Corbyn looks ridiculously out of step.
I REALLY do not understand why Javid has ever been talked up. He's shocking on the telly. Bumbling, looks like he's from outer space, and what's he actually achieved - bar being mates with Osborne?
Being the son of bus driver isn't something I look for in a potential leader.
I accept I know nothing about politics or philosophy. I assume you can get a degree in either by reading a good book for about twenty minutes. Childhood is about both innocence and learning. Jezza has managed the first but skipped the second.
My subjective view is that Jezza is a well-meaning loon. If he knew me, he might well reciprocate.
Mandela's great quality was forgiveness. To forgive you need to understand another's view, not to agree with it.
To my mind, the most interesting thing about the Scottish results was the rise of anti-SNP (or Unionist) tactical voting.
Nothing else explains the extraordinary swings to the LibDems in Orkney & Shetland, Edinburgh West, and North East Fife. Or from the LibDems to the Conservative Party in Southern Scotland and the Borders.
If this continues in 2020, we can reasonably expect a few of the SNP 2015 gains to be lost.
Mr. L, if we assume you're right, who does that mean would be best as next Conservative leader?
I don't have a name but it really should not be pretty much any of the current front runners. I thought Sajid Javid looked a real possibility but he has disappointed so far in office. Characters are rare in modern politics but if there is one central theme from yesterday's results it is that character and personality are of increasing importance and political dogmatism less so. Yet another way in which Corbyn looks ridiculously out of step.
It depends on what you mean by character. If it means "being a character" I would disagree. If it means moral character, judgment, the ability to distinguish between right and wrong and to say so, the sense to realise that they are in public service and are there to serve us, then I agree. We need more of such people. We don't need politicians who think it is all about them, who think that any questioning of them, what they have done and said is somehow an importance. There is too much of that around.
We don't need dogmatists. But we do need people who actually have some liberal principles and follow them through.
From what I can tell Ruth Davidson comes across as an engaging personality. But probably more important is that she seems to have a clear idea about what the Tories should be about in Scotland and how to communicate that to her party and the wider electorate.
I think you need a bit of both to succeed but I would certainly agree that the latter is more important than the former. You are right to say that Ruth had a clarity of vision and a focus on what was important and that is essential in any successful leader. I also agree that the risk that can spill into egotism (Maggie, Boris and Livingstone in their different ways) is real.
Even though it's frowned upon to say it, there are tensions between members/leaders of some Muslim communities in the UK and the traditional British way of life. Khan will be faced with dealing with these issues at some point and I'm hopeful he can turn more Muslims away from the idiocy of Sharia Law, FGM, forced marriages, repression of women and, of course, extremism, and lead them towards the light.
The very fact that one of the world's great cities has elected a Muslim mayor demonstrates how open-armed this country is. I hope Khan can bring communities together and help convince more people that our Western way of life is far more tolerant and progressive than the evil, primitive cultures the religious lunatics active in some Mosques (and across the Middle East, sub continent and North Africa) espouse.
Good luck to him. If he succeeds he'll make Britain an even better, safer place.
But if he dissemble or backs away over any intolerant practices/extremism, I'll be the first in the queue to slam him over it.
Agreed. A pity then that he has spoken in the past in favour of an Islamic blasphemy law and against making forced marriages a crime.
I would agree if we didn't already have what amounts to a blasphemy law. You can't insult religions or what some call 'races' anymore in this country.
The thin blue line is stretched to breaking point following up minor insults to very over sensitive people. Might as well at least clarify so we know who and what we can and can't insult. I don't blame Khan wanting an even playing field.
As for 'forced marriage' that's very difficult to separate from 'arranged marrige' which is impossible to legislate against and goes way beyond Muslims
As a Scottish Tory used to disappointment after disappointment I am understandably focussed on the sensational result for Ruth Davidson up here. But I do think that there are broader lessons.
Ruth is another Boris in many ways. She is funny, engaging and has a reach well beyond that of the traditional Tory. In addition she is still quite young and openly gay. Every stereotype of a crusty old Tory sitting in their draughty old castle is completely blown apart. She is aware this is a strength. No photo opportunity was daft enough to be turned down. Unlike the deeply unpleasant Goldsmith campaign in London she was also relentlessly positive.
There are huge lessons here for the next Tory leader. Cameron has done massive amounts to detoxify the Tory brand but his privileges, his background and, dare one say it, his essential conservatism, has imposed limitations on what he can do. The Tories need someone who understands the importance of keeping public spending and taxes in balance, that the purpose of the tax system is to raise money for services not punish the rich and yet who has genuine compassion for the less able and needy. They also need someone who gets 21st century Britain and does not hark back to some mythical golden age.
Such people are rare, very rare. But once the referendum is out the way the Tories need to look for such a person from their next generation to take on Cameron's mantle and to continue offering a combination of competent government and social liberalism to the British people. It is not going to be easy but can anyone seriously question the sort of person now required?
You miss a major factor though. The next Tory leader is likely (certain?) to be PM. The qualities for running the country can be somewhat different to being a great campaigner. Campaign in poetry and govern in prose and all that.
That is true and running things without having the fun and life knocked out of you is even harder. Boris just about managed it as Mayor but I can think of few other examples.
It's a tricky combination - like asking a Miss World contestant to be poised, gorgeous, thoughtful, intelligent, and... an ace baton twirler. Boris made a great Mayor because he'd intelligence and fun-factor. Unless we discover a secret talent for karaoke within the Tory ranks, I think we're asking the impossible.
I see Morgan has used the weekend's coverage of elections to sneak out a u-turn on school policy.
She is scarily over promoted. If there is a reshuffle after the referendum I seriously hope she goes. Osborne didn't do her any favours with this policy but she really could not sell food to a starving man.
Khan has four years of walking on eggshells..his honcho appointments and his ethnic quota policies will be the most scrutinised in British politics..
The biggest risk is that he has to unpick the mess left by Boris. London is seriously overheated.
If people can't afford to live or a run a business in the capital, bad things are just around the corner.
I am not sure Boris or khan had / have within their power to do much about it. When you have a long history of business centring themselves there so that too many British folks move there because of a high percentage of good jobs are there & then uncontrolled immigration from rest of Europe & high levels of immigration from outside eu also due to the attractive job market & add into it incredibly complex planning / building situation.
None of the above the mayor can do much about other than attempt to tank the cities job market, which would be idiotic.
As a political party the SNP remain sensationally successful and only those who regard everything other than independence itself as immaterial could say otherwise.
They ran a Presidential campaign (all Nicola, all the time) and she is just not popular enough.
They explicitly didn't run on a separatist platform (Mibbes Aye, Mibbes Naw), a left-wing platform (We'll cut your taxes) or a right-wing (We'll keep up the freebies)
When your campaign has no philosophical or political underpinnings, you need a figurehead who doesn't grate quite so badly as Wee Nippy
And for those about to argue the Tories did the same, that's bollox. At the heart of the successful Tory campaign was the Union. And it worked.
Mr. L, if we assume you're right, who does that mean would be best as next Conservative leader?
I don't have a name but it really should not be pretty much any of the current front runners. I thought Sajid Javid looked a real possibility but he has disappointed so far in office. Characters are rare in modern politics but if there is one central theme from yesterday's results it is that character and personality are of increasing importance and political dogmatism less so. Yet another way in which Corbyn looks ridiculously out of step.
It depends on what you mean by character. If it means "being a character" I would disagree. If it means moral character, judgment, the ability to distinguish between right and wrong and to say so, the sense to realise that they are in public service and are there to serve us, then I agree. We need more of such people. We don't need politicians who think it is all about them, who think that any questioning of them, what they have done and said is somehow an importance. There is too much of that around.
We don't need dogmatists. But we do need people who actually have some liberal principles and follow them through.
From what I can tell Ruth Davidson comes across as an engaging personality. But probably more important is that she seems to have a clear idea about what the Tories should be about in Scotland and how to communicate that to her party and the wider electorate.
I think you need a bit of both to succeed but I would certainly agree that the latter is more important than the former. You are right to say that Ruth had a clarity of vision and a focus on what was important and that is essential in any successful leader. I also agree that the risk that can spill into egotism (Maggie, Boris and Livingstone in their different ways) is real.
These days, to get elected you need to be interesting and plausible. It's a rare combination.
To govern, you still need judgement and integrity. That's even rarer.
Corbyn is liked by most members (even by many who didn't vote for him), this week's elections suggest he's not a total turnoff for voters, like Alastair noted on the last thread, and there isn't an obviously more popular alternative.
What these elections suggested is that the Labour Party still remains popular. People are still happy to vote for the party when there is no national principle involved. Corbyn is clearly a massive drag on the ticket. That does however mean that under another leader you could be back in power quite quickly. As for 'an obviously more popular alternative,' with the exceptions of Abbott, Macdonnell and Burgon pretty much anyone would be more likely to be popular. However, as with the Republican Party, such a person has no chance of getting past the members.
You also mention the words 'Kerry McCarthy' and 'sensible animal welfare policy' in the same sentence. She used to be my MP when I worked in Bristol and she is preternaturally useless. Minor breaches of electoral law aside, she genuinely does not understand farming processes or animal welfare issues (as she did not understand the reality of state schooling). The fact that she is shadowing DEFRA rather than being shunted to some pointless non-job to keep her out of mischief tells you everything you need to know about Corbyn's judgement. Cf. Emily Thornberry, John Macdonnell, Seumas Milne, Diane Abbott...do you honestly think this won't haunt him at an election?
Can see the usual suspects are out early rubbishing Khan before he's even started his job. I unlike most of you doomsayers am confident that he will do a stellar job.
Deserves congratulations on winning the largest ever mandate for a UK politician.
Khan has four years of walking on eggshells..his honcho appointments and his ethnic quota policies will be the most scrutinised in British politics..and if he cracks just one shell then Corbyn will get hammered again in the HOC..
We've been here before with Ken and his BFF Lee Jaspar - I sincerely hope we aren't about to get the same song/different verse.
Mr. L, if we assume you're right, who does that mean would be best as next Conservative leader?
I don't have a name but it really should not be pretty much any of the current front runners. I thought Sajid Javid looked a real possibility but he has disappointed so far in office. Characters are rare in modern politics but if there is one central theme from yesterday's results it is that character and personality are of increasing importance and political dogmatism less so. Yet another way in which Corbyn looks ridiculously out of step.
I REALLY do not understand why Javid has ever been talked up. He's shocking on the telly. Bumbling, looks like he's from outer space, and what's he actually achieved - bar being mates with Osborne?
Being the son of bus driver isn't something I look for in a potential leader.
Being the son or daughter of anything is irrelevant to a person's qualities and character. It is how you act - what you do and what you don't do - that tells people the sort of person you are.
Decency and character and integrity and honesty and kindness and a whole host of other things have nothing to do with the job your parents did or the country they were born in.
We are moral actors who make our own lives. We are not unchanging coloured-in cardboard cut-outs from a factory somewhere.
To my mind, the most interesting thing about the Scottish results was the rise of anti-SNP (or Unionist) tactical voting.
Nothing else explains the extraordinary swings to the LibDems in Orkney & Shetland, Edinburgh West, and North East Fife. Or from the LibDems to the Conservative Party in Southern Scotland and the Borders.
If this continues in 2020, we can reasonably expect a few of the SNP 2015 gains to be lost.
A little belated from Scottish unionist voters then! Could have saved quite a few additional mos with a bit more willingness to be tactical.
Whilst I understand all of Cyclefree's concerns and reservations I really hope that Sadiq is a success in London. I think the fact that our capital can elect someone who happens to be a Muslim is a very good thing. It is an opportunity for him to do more for the essential social integration of this country than anything else I can imagine. Our politics would have become truly odious if Zac's campaign had succeeded and I am glad it didn't.
As a political party the SNP remain sensationally successful and only those who regard everything other than independence itself as immaterial could say otherwise.
They ran a Presidential campaign (all Nicola, all the time) and she is just not popular enough.
They explicitly didn't run on a separatist platform (Mibbes Aye, Mibbes Naw), a left-wing platform (We'll cut your taxes) or a right-wing (We'll keep up the freebies)
When your campaign has no philosophical or political underpinnings, you need a figurehead who doesn't grate quite so badly as Wee Nippy
And for those about to argue the Tories did the same, that's bollox. At the heart of the successful Tory campaign was the Union. And it worked.
When your campaign has no philosophical or political underpinnings, you need a figurehead who doesn't grate
I wouldn't worry about Khan's pronouncements before the election. He is a politician and will do what is electorally beneficial to himself. Like all good politicians, he will tell each group what they want to hear, but do what is best for Mr Khan.
Mr. L, if we assume you're right, who does that mean would be best as next Conservative leader?
I don't have a name but it really should not be pretty much any of the current front runners. I thought Sajid Javid looked a real possibility but he has disappointed so far in office. Characters are rare in modern politics but if there is one central theme from yesterday's results it is that character and personality are of increasing importance and political dogmatism less so. Yet another way in which Corbyn looks ridiculously out of step.
It depends on what you mean by character. If it means "being a character" I would disagree. If it means moral character, judgment, the ability to distinguish between right and wrong and to say so, the sense to realise that they are in public service and are there to serve us, then I agree. We need more of such people. We don't need politicians who think it is all about them, who think that any questioning of them, what they have done and said is somehow an importance. There is too much of that around.
We don't need dogmatists. But we do need people who actually have some liberal principles and follow them through.
From what I can tell Ruth Davidson comes across as an engaging personality. But probably more important is that she seems to have a clear idea about what the Tories should be about in Scotland and how to communicate that to her party and the wider electorate.
I think you need a bit of both to succeed but I would certainly agree that the latter is more important than the former. You are right to say that Ruth had a clarity of vision and a focus on what was important and that is essential in any successful leader. I also agree that the risk that can spill into egotism (Maggie, Boris and Livingstone in their different ways) is real.
These days, to get elected you need to be interesting and plausible. It's a rare combination.
To govern, you still need judgement and integrity. That's even rarer.
Roger .. Clarification.. A forced marriage is simply that..when one or both parties to the marriage do not wish it to take place..but are forced into it..An arranged marriage is exactly that..usually arranged between two families and with the consent of the two participants..
To my mind, the most interesting thing about the Scottish results was the rise of anti-SNP (or Unionist) tactical voting.
Nothing else explains the extraordinary swings to the LibDems in Orkney & Shetland, Edinburgh West, and North East Fife. Or from the LibDems to the Conservative Party in Southern Scotland and the Borders.
If this continues in 2020, we can reasonably expect a few of the SNP 2015 gains to be lost.
Mapping the Yes/No vote onto Thursday's result would be interesting.
I see Morgan has used the weekend's coverage of elections to sneak out a u-turn on school policy.
She is scarily over promoted. If there is a reshuffle after the referendum I seriously hope she goes. Osborne didn't do her any favours with this policy but she really could not sell food to a starving man.
Oddly, education is one of those briefs that tends to attract complete numpties. Blunkett, Clarke and Johnson were promoted to the Home Office from it, Balls was slated to be Chancellor, but that was due to the internal dynamics of the Labour Party and not due to their success in the role. Gove had to be demoted, Morris was sacked, Baker and Clarke were shuffled around like nobody's business and Carlisle and McGregor, the only two who were actually any good were moved in a colossal hurry.
I think part of the problem is that the permanent officials tend to be of a below average quality - Wormald springs to mind - but it also does seem to be a gig where too many ministers trying to make a mark for the sake of publicity or their careers end up causing total chaos because they don't get just how much of a strain the system is under, and how much more difficult constant mindless tinkering and budget cuts make things. Similar comments could be made for Health, of course.
Editor of Labour Uncut on Sky, predicting Labour face at least two more election defeats and a share in the low 20s in 2020....
I would have said that was possible but yesterday's results don't bear it out, do they?
Quite. Even under Corbyn, particularly if the Tories are doing poorly, labour could do surprisingly well. Cameron and Osborne seemed keen after the ge to not lose voters in the centre or even left, I wider how the new leader coming in will pitch for votes.
To my mind, the most interesting thing about the Scottish results was the rise of anti-SNP (or Unionist) tactical voting.
Nothing else explains the extraordinary swings to the LibDems in Orkney & Shetland, Edinburgh West, and North East Fife. Or from the LibDems to the Conservative Party in Southern Scotland and the Borders.
If this continues in 2020, we can reasonably expect a few of the SNP 2015 gains to be lost.
Yes, I would agree. The Tories and the Lib Dems have learned how to play this game effectively. Only SLAB still seems to struggle to understand. I think it is now very likely that Scotland will contribute more Tory MPs than Labour MPs in 2020. Remarkable.
Delighted though I am with Ruth's triumph it does seem to me that a lot of the comments on here are seriously underrating Sturgeon's success. The result in 2011 was something of a freak, a combination of constituency and list wins that maximised the efficiency of the SNP vote in a way that was unlikely to be repeated. It was also achieved because there was a very strong desire to force through a referendum by (thankfully) just less than half of the Scottish people.
To retain the same level of dominance once that referendum has been lost is a remarkable achievement. The SNP constituency vote went up and they picked up more of the Labour fiefdoms destroying them in Glasgow. Winning the Council there next year looks like a formality now.
Under the list system majorities should be almost impossible and Nicola came very close. Like Ruth she has profited from Labour's collapse into irrelevance but like her she has also taken full advantage. As a political party the SNP remain sensationally successful and only those who regard everything other than independence itself as immaterial could say otherwise. The winners in the UK yesterday were Nicola, Ruth and Sadiq in roughly that order. Everyone else lost.
The SNP's result was very good but it wasn't great.
1. They lost seats, as against 2011. 2. They went backwards as against 2015 and failed to win equivalent constituencies to those they did last year. 3. They lost their majority. 4. They underperformed the polls and, hence, expectations.
None of that should detract from how many seats and constituencies they did win, nor that their minority administration should find little difficulty governing. All the same, the long ascent which saw them rise to extraordinary heights now looks to be over.
Editor of Labour Uncut on Sky, predicting Labour face at least two more election defeats and a share in the low 20s in 2020....
I would have said that was possible but yesterday's results don't bear it out, do they?
I thought yesterday's council results were fascinatingly boring - Car Crash Labour vs Car Crash Tory. They balanced each other out, so it looks like everyone is quite happy. I think that's very misleading.
To my mind, the most interesting thing about the Scottish results was the rise of anti-SNP (or Unionist) tactical voting.
Nothing else explains the extraordinary swings to the LibDems in Orkney & Shetland, Edinburgh West, and North East Fife. Or from the LibDems to the Conservative Party in Southern Scotland and the Borders.
If this continues in 2020, we can reasonably expect a few of the SNP 2015 gains to be lost.
Yes, I would agree. The Tories and the Lib Dems have learned how to play this game effectively. Only SLAB still seems to struggle to understand. I think it is now very likely that Scotland will contribute more Tory MPs than Labour MPs in 2020. Remarkable.
It's staggering, given they are on perhaps 7% in Scotland, but the libdems could actually gain seats in Scotland in 2020 based on these results. (And assuming tactical voting continues at the General)
To my mind, the most interesting thing about the Scottish results was the rise of anti-SNP (or Unionist) tactical voting.
Nothing else explains the extraordinary swings to the LibDems in Orkney & Shetland, Edinburgh West, and North East Fife. Or from the LibDems to the Conservative Party in Southern Scotland and the Borders.
If this continues in 2020, we can reasonably expect a few of the SNP 2015 gains to be lost.
Yes, I would agree. The Tories and the Lib Dems have learned how to play this game effectively. Only SLAB still seems to struggle to understand. I think it is now very likely that Scotland will contribute more Tory MPs than Labour MPs in 2020. Remarkable.
They were only a few hundred votes in Roxburgh from doing so in 2015.
I would caution that the next general election will be fought on a different battleground to this year. Namely SCON defending a two term Conservative Westminster government not attacking a two term SNP Holyrood government.
Roger .. Clarification.. A forced marriage is simply that..when one or both parties to the marriage do not wish it to take place..but are forced into it..An arranged marriage is exactly that..usually arranged between two families and with the consent of the two participants..
I follow the Met's twitter account - a notable number appeals for help finding missing Muslim girls. Pakistan I presume.
Even though it's frowned upon to say it, there are tensions between members/leaders of some Muslim communities in the UK and the traditional British way of life. Khan will be faced with dealing with these issues at some point and I'm hopeful he can turn more Muslims away from the idiocy of Sharia Law, FGM, forced marriages, repression of women and, of course, extremism, and lead them towards the light.
The very fact that one of the world's great cities has elected a Muslim mayor demonstrates how open-armed this country is. I hope Khan can bring communities together and help convince more people that our Western way of life is far more tolerant and progressive than the evil, primitive cultures the religious lunatics active in some Mosques (and across the Middle East, sub continent and North Africa) espouse.
Good luck to him. If he succeeds he'll make Britain an even better, safer place.
But if he dissemble or backs away over any intolerant practices/extremism, I'll be the first in the queue to slam him over it.
Agreed. A pity then that he has spoken in the past in favour of an Islamic blasphemy law and against making forced marriages a crime.
I would agree if we didn't already have what amounts to a blasphemy law. You can't insult religions or what some call 'races' anymore in this country.
The thin blue line is stretched to breaking point following up minor insults to very over sensitive people. Might as well at least clarify so we know who and what we can and can't insult. I don't blame Khan wanting an even playing field.
As for 'forced marriage' that's very difficult to separate from 'arranged marrige' which is impossible to legislate against and goes way beyond Muslims
We need to get rid of the recently introduced constraints on free speech, not double down on them.
Forced marriage and arranged marriage are clearly distinct. The former involves coercion or duress, the latter doesnt. It might be hard to prove that a marriage was forced but then a lot of crimes are hard to prove.
Editor of Labour Uncut on Sky, predicting Labour face at least two more election defeats and a share in the low 20s in 2020....
I would have said that was possible but yesterday's results don't bear it out, do they?
I thought yesterday's council results were fascinatingly boring - Car Crash Labour vs Car Crash Tory. They balanced each other out, so it looks like everyone is quite happy. I think that's very misleading.
Mr. L, if we assume you're right, who does that mean would be best as next Conservative leader?
I don't have a name but it really should not be pretty much any of the current front runners. I thought Sajid Javid looked a real possibility but he has disappointed so far in office. Characters are rare in modern politics but if there is one central theme from yesterday's results it is that character and personality are of increasing importance and political dogmatism less so. Yet another way in which Corbyn looks ridiculously out of step.
I REALLY do not understand why Javid has ever been talked up. He's shocking on the telly. Bumbling, looks like he's from outer space, and what's he actually achieved - bar being mates with Osborne?
Being the son of bus driver isn't something I look for in a potential leader.
I might have found a future leader......
By chace I was in Manchester city centre when they opened the new tram service. I suddenly found myself in a very large crowd of cheering people and from nowhere the Queen appeared. She was there for the grand opening and was going to take the first journey.
A girl standing next to me was screaming and waving two union jacks. Even as the Queen entered the tram the girl continued waving and cheering. I said to her that she seemed very excited to see the queen.? "It's not that" she said. "My Dad's driving the tram!"
I see Morgan has used the weekend's coverage of elections to sneak out a u-turn on school policy.
She is scarily over promoted. If there is a reshuffle after the referendum I seriously hope she goes. Osborne didn't do her any favours with this policy but she really could not sell food to a starving man.
Oddly, education is one of those briefs that tends to attract complete numpties. Blunkett, Clarke and Johnson were promoted to the Home Office from it, Balls was slated to be Chancellor, but that was due to the internal dynamics of the Labour Party and not due to their success in the role. Gove had to be demoted, Morris was sacked, Baker and Clarke were shuffled around like nobody's business and Carlisle and McGregor, the only two who were actually any good were moved in a colossal hurry.
I think part of the problem is that the permanent officials tend to be of a below average quality - Wormald springs to mind - but it also does seem to be a gig where too many ministers trying to make a mark for the sake of publicity or their careers end up causing total chaos because they don't get just how much of a strain the system is under, and how much more difficult constant mindless tinkering and budget cuts make things. Similar comments could be made for Health, of course.
Morris resigned because she felt she genuinely wasn't up to the job. How refreshing.
Is the Tory so short of ability that Morgan needs to be a Cabinet minister?
I see Morgan has used the weekend's coverage of elections to sneak out a u-turn on school policy.
She is scarily over promoted. If there is a reshuffle after the referendum I seriously hope she goes. Osborne didn't do her any favours with this policy but she really could not sell food to a starving man.
Scarily overpromoted.. you could say that about nearly sll of the current politicians of whatever party
We nominated Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership. Now we regret it The elections were a missed opportunity for Labour. As new MPs we’ve kept quiet, but now we’re speaking out about weak leadership and poor judgment
Plato , re last thread, luckily you were wrong , my seat was an SNP hold with increased vote. Only Tories in Ayrshire are in the south. When the dust settles it will be interesting , the nasties will not be able to hide their Westminster pograms against the poor now that they are the opposition so should be fun at FM's questions. We will see if their 23% borrowed votes are actually a bonus, their donkeys will have a spotlight on them.
Mr. L, if we assume you're right, who does that mean would be best as next Conservative leader?
I don't have a name but it really should not be pretty much any of the current front runners. I thought Sajid Javid looked a real possibility but he has disappointed so far in office. Characters are rare in modern politics but if there is one central theme from yesterday's results it is that character and personality are of increasing importance and political dogmatism less so. Yet another way in which Corbyn looks ridiculously out of step.
I REALLY do not understand why Javid has ever been talked up. He's shocking on the telly. Bumbling, looks like he's from outer space, and what's he actually achieved - bar being mates with Osborne?
Being the son of bus driver isn't something I look for in a potential leader.
I might have found a future leader......
By chace I was in Manchester city centre when they opened the new tram service. I suddenly found myself in a very large crowd of cheering people and from nowhere the Queen appeared. She was there for the grand opening and was going to take the first journey.
A girl standing next to me was screaming and waving two union jacks. Even as the Queen entered the tram the girl continued waving and cheering. I said to her that she seemed very excited to see the queen.? "It's not that" she said. "My Dad's driving the tram!"
The SNP has turned into SLab, a Glasgow centred machine of mediocrities.
A cult of personality only works when the personality doesn't alienate more than half the country...
And now the separatists are left, like the Japanese after WW2, with a few combatants out in the jungle, desperately unaware that the war is over. And they lost.
Dear Dear , did you have a half of shandy last night , you are more delusional than normal. 47% is a "few combatants in the jungle" in your demented pysche. Get help.
Editor of Labour Uncut on Sky, predicting Labour face at least two more election defeats and a share in the low 20s in 2020....
I would have said that was possible but yesterday's results don't bear it out, do they?
I thought yesterday's council results were fascinatingly boring - Car Crash Labour vs Car Crash Tory. They balanced each other out, so it looks like everyone is quite happy. I think that's very misleading.
Car crashes for both, very true.
I doubt that Osborne sees Corbyn safe for another year as a car crash.
"Mr. CD13, a politician willing to support a blasphemy law to get elected is worthy of contempt."
Oops, there goes a lot of politicians. I am contemptuous of many, but I have to be realistic. The honest ones never do well. I've a lot of time for Frank Field but he always fell foul of the "political" politicians. You can get elected by the voters but the party machinery controls.
Khan is no worse than many others, and he knows that making a pig's ear of Mayor will see him side-lined. I perhaps shouldn't have said 'pigs ear' but as in Monty Python ... Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah. I also suspect he's no Islamist and as Mayor of London, his powers are limited and won't extend to Yorkshire. If Londoners really want to be Londonstan, that's up to them.
He'll be a Labour figurehead ... a few eye-catching irrelevancies and hopefully not many financial errors. Then he'll give Jezza an almighty shove.
To my mind, the most interesting thing about the Scottish results was the rise of anti-SNP (or Unionist) tactical voting.
Nothing else explains the extraordinary swings to the LibDems in Orkney & Shetland, Edinburgh West, and North East Fife. Or from the LibDems to the Conservative Party in Southern Scotland and the Borders.
If this continues in 2020, we can reasonably expect a few of the SNP 2015 gains to be lost.
Lots of the 2015 seats were won with very small majorities, there will be plenty of loses even if the SNP still poll 50%.
I see Morgan has used the weekend's coverage of elections to sneak out a u-turn on school policy.
She is scarily over promoted. If there is a reshuffle after the referendum I seriously hope she goes. Osborne didn't do her any favours with this policy but she really could not sell food to a starving man.
Oddly, education is one of those briefs that tends to attract complete numpties. Blunkett, Clarke and Johnson were promoted to the Home Office from it, Balls was slated to be Chancellor, but that was due to the internal dynamics of the Labour Party and not due to their success in the role. Gove had to be demoted, Morris was sacked, Baker and Clarke were shuffled around like nobody's business and Carlisle and McGregor, the only two who were actually any good were moved in a colossal hurry.
I think part of the problem is that the permanent officials tend to be of a below average quality - Wormald springs to mind - but it also does seem to be a gig where too many ministers trying to make a mark for the sake of publicity or their careers end up causing total chaos because they don't get just how much of a strain the system is under, and how much more difficult constant mindless tinkering and budget cuts make things. Similar comments could be made for Health, of course.
Morris resigned because she felt she genuinely wasn't up to the job. How refreshing.
Is the Tory so short of ability that Morgan needs to be a Cabinet minister?
As I recall she wasn't given much choice in the matter. You're right, it would have been refreshing if it had happened.
As for being short of ability, my cat is available...
Editor of Labour Uncut on Sky, predicting Labour face at least two more election defeats and a share in the low 20s in 2020....
I would have said that was possible but yesterday's results don't bear it out, do they?
I thought yesterday's council results were fascinatingly boring - Car Crash Labour vs Car Crash Tory. They balanced each other out, so it looks like everyone is quite happy. I think that's very misleading.
Car crashes for both, very true.
I doubt that Osborne sees Corbyn safe for another year as a car crash.
As I recall Corbyn is more popular, if Osborne still has ambitions to be leader.
Editor of Labour Uncut on Sky, predicting Labour face at least two more election defeats and a share in the low 20s in 2020....
I would have said that was possible but yesterday's results don't bear it out, do they?
I thought yesterday's council results were fascinatingly boring - Car Crash Labour vs Car Crash Tory. They balanced each other out, so it looks like everyone is quite happy. I think that's very misleading.
Car crashes for both, very true.
I doubt that Osborne sees Corbyn safe for another year as a car crash.
As I recall Corbyn is more popular, if Osborne still has ambitions to be leader.
I was thinking in terms of his role of Grand Chief Strategist.
Great result for Nicola Sturgeon. The adults in the SNP room seem very happy; ignore cybernats as they are unrepresentative like PB Tory rampers (Mayor Zac too close to call). She can call an independence referendum if it's popular. And if it's not popular she can blame the small parties. What's the opposite of a poisoned chalice?
A great result for a party to lose their majority? Will the SNP describe it as a great result if the Tories just fall short of a majority at the next general election?
Yeah, it is a great result. Any party would be happy with 47 per cent of the constituency vote or 42 per cent of a PR vote. That's just a remarkable figure. Imagine if Cameron got 42 per cent even just in FPTP with its bias toward tactical votes for larger parties. They'd be begging him to stay instead of preparing his exit.
Cameron gained a majority for his party after not having one; he didn't have one and then lose it, as the SNP has just done.
Cameron won 37 per cent under FPTP and got a majority. The SNP won 42 per cent in a PR system and didn't. The latter outcome seems fair to me. FPTP is like playing politics on easy mode for the biggest party. This line of criticism is like the top manager in the Isthmian League critiquing Spurs for not winning the Premiership.
No it's not. John's point was that going from majority to not having a majority probably shouldn't be classed as a great result. It totally devalues the word great!
The system is made so that it is near impossible to get a majority. Given they have more seats than all the unionist parties put together it cannot be anything other than a great result. They got everything they ever wanted through previously with 20 less MSP's so this will be a breeze.
I see Morgan has used the weekend's coverage of elections to sneak out a u-turn on school policy.
She is scarily over promoted. If there is a reshuffle after the referendum I seriously hope she goes. Osborne didn't do her any favours with this policy but she really could not sell food to a starving man.
Oddly, education is one of those briefs that tends to attract complete numpties. Blunkett, Clarke and Johnson were promoted to the Home Office from it, Balls was slated to be Chancellor, but that was due to the internal dynamics of the Labour Party and not due to their success in the role. Gove had to be demoted, Morris was sacked, Baker and Clarke were shuffled around like nobody's business and Carlisle and McGregor, the only two who were actually any good were moved in a colossal hurry.
I think part of the problem is that the permanent officials tend to be of a below average quality - Wormald springs to mind - but it also does seem to be a gig where too many ministers trying to make a mark for the sake of publicity or their careers end up causing total chaos because they don't get just how much of a strain the system is under, and how much more difficult constant mindless tinkering and budget cuts make things. Similar comments could be made for Health, of course.
Morris resigned because she felt she genuinely wasn't up to the job. How refreshing.
Is the Tory so short of ability that Morgan needs to be a Cabinet minister?
As I recall she wasn't given much choice in the matter. You're right, it would have been refreshing if it had happened.
As for being short of ability, my cat is available...
A good summary, but I would add a few more points regarding Wales.
It was a bad night for the Tories there.
Labour hung on (except in the Rhondda), because most of their seats are constituency ones where they previously had overwhelming majorities.
PC didn't make any significant progress - the result in the Rhondda was just a personal triumph for the local lass.
The LD result confirms their political irrelevance.
The only real winners were UKIP.
As for Scotland, NS should show some humility - it was a bad result for the SNP (below all expectations/predictions except the final YouGov poll), as it shows that their bubble has burst and they are now on the downhill slope. Given that support for independence is
I have seen it all now , a cretin more deluded than Scott. I never thought it was possible.
Great result for Nicola Sturgeon. The adults in the SNP room seem very happy; ignore cybernats as they are unrepresentative like PB Tory rampers (Mayor Zac too close to call). She can call an independence referendum if it's popular. And if it's not popular she can blame the small parties. What's the opposite of a poisoned chalice?
A great result for a party to lose their majority? Will the SNP describe it as a great result if the Tories just fall short of a majority at the next general election?
Yeah, it is a great result. Any party would be happy with 47 per cent of the constituency vote or 42 per cent of a PR vote. That's just a remarkable figure. Imagine if Cameron got 42 per cent even just in FPTP with its bias toward tactical votes for larger parties. They'd be begging him to stay instead of preparing his exit.
Cameron gained a majority for his party after not having one; he didn't have one and then lose it, as the SNP has just done.
Cameron won 37 per cent under FPTP and got a majority. The SNP won 42 per cent in a PR system and didn't. The latter outcome seems fair to me. FPTP is like playing politics on easy mode for the biggest party. This line of criticism is like the top manager in the Isthmian League critiquing Spurs for not winning the Premiership.
No it's not. John's point was that going from majority to not having a majority probably shouldn't be classed as a great result. It totally devalues the word great!
The system is made so that it is near impossible to get a majority. Given they have more seats than all the unionist parties put together it cannot be anything other than a great result. They got everything they ever wanted through previously with 20 less MSP's so this will be a breeze.
When you look at the electoral map there could be a strong case for moving Hadrian' s wall further to the north and hauling O & S up to Norway
I have seen Zoomers suggest that already...
'Zoomers'
'Shetland and Orkney should be permitted to remain part of the United Kingdom if voters in the islands reject independence in a referendum. That’s the view of ex-Conservative minister the Earl of Caithness, who has tabled amendments to the Scotland Bill currently going through parliament at Westminster. It will be discussed in the House of Lords later this week.'
Editor of Labour Uncut on Sky, predicting Labour face at least two more election defeats and a share in the low 20s in 2020....
I would have said that was possible but yesterday's results don't bear it out, do they?
I thought yesterday's council results were fascinatingly boring - Car Crash Labour vs Car Crash Tory. They balanced each other out, so it looks like everyone is quite happy. I think that's very misleading.
Car crashes for both, very true.
I doubt that Osborne sees Corbyn safe for another year as a car crash.
As I recall Corbyn is more popular, if Osborne still has ambitions to be leader.
I was thinking in terms of his role of Grand Chief Strategist.
I know, but I wonder at if his leadership ambitions can mess with his strategist ambitions sometimes.
Re LIB DEMs. Down to 1 AM in Wales and 1 in London Assembly. Overtaken in both by UKIP.
Bleak times for the LDs. Time for rebrand back to Liberals?
Possible! But they are teetering on oblivion. Only the SLAB collapse and turmoil inside english parts of Labour and Conservatives has saved them in Scotland and English Councils.
I think they'll find a way back in coming years.
They need to waken up , support independence, become a Scottish party and stop have their only policy as SNPBAD. They need to get over their hatred of the SNP. Supporting the Tories was the final straw.
We nominated Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership. Now we regret it The elections were a missed opportunity for Labour. As new MPs we’ve kept quiet, but now we’re speaking out about weak leadership and poor judgment
Plato , re last thread, luckily you were wrong , my seat was an SNP hold with increased vote. Only Tories in Ayrshire are in the south. When the dust settles it will be interesting , the nasties will not be able to hide their Westminster pograms against the poor now that they are the opposition so should be fun at FM's questions. We will see if their 23% borrowed votes are actually a bonus, their donkeys will have a spotlight on them.
Lol - the merest hint of humility poking through the bravado there.
I see Morgan has used the weekend's coverage of elections to sneak out a u-turn on school policy.
She is scarily over promoted. If there is a reshuffle after the referendum I seriously hope she goes. Osborne didn't do her any favours with this policy but she really could not sell food to a starving man.
Oddly, education is one of those briefs that tends to attract complete numpties. Blunkett, Clarke and Johnson were promoted to the Home Office from it, Balls was slated to be Chancellor, but that was due to the internal dynamics of the Labour Party and not due to their success in the role. Gove had to be demoted, Morris was sacked, Baker and Clarke were shuffled around like nobody's business and Carlisle and McGregor, the only two who were actually any good were moved in a colossal hurry.
I think part of the problem is that the permanent officials tend to be of a below average quality - Wormald springs to mind - but it also does seem to be a gig where too many ministers trying to make a mark for the sake of publicity or their careers end up causing total chaos because they don't get just how much of a strain the system is under, and how much more difficult constant mindless tinkering and budget cuts make things. Similar comments could be made for Health, of course.
Morris resigned because she felt she genuinely wasn't up to the job. How refreshing.
Is the Tory so short of ability that Morgan needs to be a Cabinet minister?
As I recall she wasn't given much choice in the matter. You're right, it would have been refreshing if it had happened.
As for being short of ability, my cat is available...
Editor of Labour Uncut on Sky, predicting Labour face at least two more election defeats and a share in the low 20s in 2020....
I would have said that was possible but yesterday's results don't bear it out, do they?
I thought yesterday's council results were fascinatingly boring - Car Crash Labour vs Car Crash Tory. They balanced each other out, so it looks like everyone is quite happy. I think that's very misleading.
Car crashes for both, very true.
I doubt that Osborne sees Corbyn safe for another year as a car crash.
I'm not sure how much worse it can get for Labour. I know we keep saying this, then another PR horror springs on-stage - but what could that be?
A couple of dozen suspensions for anti-Semitism, another 50 before that by Labour's Compliance Unit, endless Hitler from Ken, don't shoot-to-kill a terrorist, won't push the button, give back the Falklands, my friendships with IRA and Hamas... and on and on and on.
Re LIB DEMs. Down to 1 AM in Wales and 1 in London Assembly. Overtaken in both by UKIP.
Bleak times for the LDs. Time for rebrand back to Liberals?
Possible! But they are teetering on oblivion. Only the SLAB collapse and turmoil inside english parts of Labour and Conservatives has saved them in Scotland and English Councils.
I think they'll find a way back in coming years.
They need to waken up , support independence, become a Scottish party and stop have their only policy as SNPBAD. They need to get over their hatred of the SNP. Supporting the Tories was the final straw.
Perhaps we could have two Indy parties of the left and right, Labour and SNP, and two for the union, left and right, LDs and Tories. Everyone on the spectrum has an option then, if the want to make everything about independence while still adhering to the left right spectrum nonsense.
Editor of Labour Uncut on Sky, predicting Labour face at least two more election defeats and a share in the low 20s in 2020....
I would have said that was possible but yesterday's results don't bear it out, do they?
I thought yesterday's council results were fascinatingly boring - Car Crash Labour vs Car Crash Tory. They balanced each other out, so it looks like everyone is quite happy. I think that's very misleading.
Car crashes for both, very true.
I doubt that Osborne sees Corbyn safe for another year as a car crash.
I'm not sure how much worse it can get for Labour. I know we keep saying this, then another PR horror springs on-stage - but what could that be?
A couple of dozen suspensions for anti-Semitism, another 50 before that by Labour's Compliance Unit, endless Hitler from Ken, don't shoot-to-kill a terrorist, won't push the button, give back the Falklands, my friendships with IRA and Hamas... and on and on and on.
And Jezza's own been Leader since September!!
It gets worse when we get a year out from GE and public finally start to focus on who will run the economy better.
If we are in the middle of a terrible recession then maybe Corbyn pulls it off.
I've just realised that the SCons are the new LCFC. Most of their long term fans too feart to make a prediction of success but then creeping out of the woodwork to shamelessly aftertime, plus a whole bunch of goonish newbies and gloryhunters 'celebrating' their achievement who've never seen them play, can only name one of their players and who agreed with the general consensus that they were pretty crap right until the very last moment.
Though of course the stark difference is Leicester won convincingly while the SCons came second, 23pts behind the winners.
Ironically the end result of this SNP carelessness may be beneficial. It gives them a salatory lesson in hubris without much political damage. The Parliament should be easy enough to manage but still keep the Government on its toes. The SNP politicians, of which some look like real quality, will presumably insist on a return to organisational effectiveness while the result increases rather than diminishes Sturgeon's freedom to manouvre on independence. Meanwhile centre left led by the SNP, against centre right led by the Tories, is a great position for continuing success.
Whodathunkit? Losing her majority is a "Victory for Nicola"!
I imagine four years of being complimented by Ruth on her Tory tax policy will go down a treat!
We certainly do not expect anything positive like a policy from the Ruth party for sure. It will be a whinge fest and nothing more. Hopefully she sticks with riding buffalo and tanks , it will save us hearing her whining.
Editor of Labour Uncut on Sky, predicting Labour face at least two more election defeats and a share in the low 20s in 2020....
I would have said that was possible but yesterday's results don't bear it out, do they?
Oh yes they do - in spades!
The only caveat is that Labour has a few more years to improve, if they are to avoid catastrophe...
Interesting. I can see that some swingback to the Tories is likely but would that be sufficient to take Labour into the low 20s?
For low 20s you need diehard core Labour support to defect or not vote. I was expecting to see more signs of that yesterday.
Kippers were in second place in every S Tyneside ward IIRC. They're making steady progress in places the Tories can't touch. I think they took more seats from Labour than anyone else on Thursday. What happens post 23rd - who knows.
Delighted though I am with Ruth's triumph it does seem to me that a lot of the comments on here are seriously underrating Sturgeon's success. The result in 2011 was something of a freak, a combination of constituency and list wins that maximised the efficiency of the SNP vote in a way that was unlikely to be repeated. It was also achieved because there was a very strong desire to force through a referendum by (thankfully) just less than half of the Scottish people.
To retain the same level of dominance once that referendum has been lost is a remarkable achievement. The SNP constituency vote went up and they picked up more of the Labour fiefdoms destroying them in Glasgow. Winning the Council there next year looks like a formality now.
Under the list system majorities should be almost impossible and Nicola came very close. Like Ruth she has profited from Labour's collapse into irrelevance but like her she has also taken full advantage. As a political party the SNP remain sensationally successful and only those who regard everything other than independence itself as immaterial could say otherwise. The winners in the UK yesterday were Nicola, Ruth and Sadiq in roughly that order. Everyone else lost.
The only sane Tory in the village. PS: Compare and contrast with the opposite our site village idiot.
I see Morgan has used the weekend's coverage of elections to sneak out a u-turn on school policy.
She is scarily over promoted. If there is a reshuffle after the referendum I seriously hope she goes. Osborne didn't do her any favours with this policy but she really could not sell food to a starving man.
Oddly, education is one of those briefs that tends to attract complete numpties. Blunkett, Clarke and Johnson were promoted to the Home Office from it, Balls was slated to be Chancellor, but that was due to the internal dynamics of the Labour Party and not due to their success in the role. Gove had to be demoted, Morris was sacked, Baker and Clarke were shuffled around like nobody's business and Carlisle and McGregor, the only two who were actually any good were moved in a colossal hurry.
I think part of the problem is that the permanent officials tend to be of a below average quality - Wormald springs to mind - but it also does seem to be a gig where too many ministers trying to make a mark for the sake of publicity or their careers end up causing total chaos because they don't get just how much of a strain the system is under, and how much more difficult constant mindless tinkering and budget cuts make things. Similar comments could be made for Health, of course.
Morris resigned because she felt she genuinely wasn't up to the job. How refreshing.
Is the Tory so short of ability that Morgan needs to be a Cabinet minister?
As I recall she wasn't given much choice in the matter. You're right, it would have been refreshing if it had happened.
As for being short of ability, my cat is available...
I've just realised that the SCons are the new LCFC. Most of their long term fans too feart to make a prediction of success but then creeping out of the woodwork to shamelessly aftertime, plus a whole bunch of goonish newbies and gloryhunters 'celebrating' their achievement who've never seen them play, can only name one of their players and who agreed with the general consensus that they were pretty crap right until the very last moment.
Though of course the stark difference is Leicester won convincingly while the SCons came second, 23pts behind the winners.
Being only 23 pts behind the SNP is enough of a victory for them, their goals are different given what is realistic. One day, if the surge is maintained, maybe they will think if they can actually challenge further, but I'm already getting confused st this idea it isn't possible to celebrate a major success because someone else had a better one.
Thank you for a very good summary Mr Herdson. DUCE is alive and well. Don't Unseat Corbyn Early. Yesterday thousands wept with relief as their hero came through again. "He is safe. He is safe" they cried as they bore him aloft to Brewers Green. Special prayers had been offered up for the safety of Jez at synagogues across the country. As Bill McLaren had once predicted-"They'll be singing in the streets of Islington tonight." And they were. The cries of "Hezbollah"(Arabic for "Jeremy") could be heard long into the night.
Re LIB DEMs. Down to 1 AM in Wales and 1 in London Assembly. Overtaken in both by UKIP.
Bleak times for the LDs. Time for rebrand back to Liberals?
Possible! But they are teetering on oblivion. Only the SLAB collapse and turmoil inside english parts of Labour and Conservatives has saved them in Scotland and English Councils.
I think they'll find a way back in coming years.
They need to waken up , support independence, become a Scottish party and stop have their only policy as SNPBAD. They need to get over their hatred of the SNP. Supporting the Tories was the final straw.
Perhaps we could have two Indy parties of the left and right, Labour and SNP, and two for the union, left and right, LDs and Tories. Everyone on the spectrum has an option then, if the want to make everything about independence while still adhering to the left right spectrum nonsense.
I appreciate I leFt out the greens.
What's left of SLab is pretty much the Unionist rump. There might be a (weak) case for them to convert into a properly federalist party, but they no longer have the intellectual depth left able to make that case convincingly.
To my mind, the most interesting thing about the Scottish results was the rise of anti-SNP (or Unionist) tactical voting.
Nothing else explains the extraordinary swings to the LibDems in Orkney & Shetland, Edinburgh West, and North East Fife. Or from the LibDems to the Conservative Party in Southern Scotland and the Borders.
If this continues in 2020, we can reasonably expect a few of the SNP 2015 gains to be lost.
Yes, I would agree. The Tories and the Lib Dems have learned how to play this game effectively. Only SLAB still seems to struggle to understand. I think it is now very likely that Scotland will contribute more Tory MPs than Labour MPs in 2020. Remarkable.
It's staggering, given they are on perhaps 7% in Scotland, but the libdems could actually gain seats in Scotland in 2020 based on these results. (And assuming tactical voting continues at the General)
Ming Campbell's old seat now called Fife NE has to be a real possibility with a seat in Edinburgh more of an outside bet but their old base in the borders from David Steel days has gone completely blue as has most of their old redoubts in the North East.
Editor of Labour Uncut on Sky, predicting Labour face at least two more election defeats and a share in the low 20s in 2020....
I would have said that was possible but yesterday's results don't bear it out, do they?
I thought yesterday's council results were fascinatingly boring - Car Crash Labour vs Car Crash Tory. They balanced each other out, so it looks like everyone is quite happy. I think that's very misleading.
Car crashes for both, very true.
I doubt that Osborne sees Corbyn safe for another year as a car crash.
I'm not sure how much worse it can get for Labour. I know we keep saying this, then another PR horror springs on-stage - but what could that be?
A couple of dozen suspensions for anti-Semitism, another 50 before that by Labour's Compliance Unit, endless Hitler from Ken, don't shoot-to-kill a terrorist, won't push the button, give back the Falklands, my friendships with IRA and Hamas... and on and on and on.
And Jezza's own been Leader since September!!
It gets worse when we get a year out from GE and public finally start to focus on who will run the economy better.
If we are in the middle of a terrible recession then maybe Corbyn pulls it off.
I really can't imagine Labour overhauling the Tories on this metric for a long time.
Is it sexist for Osborne to announce a policy and then have female Morgan defend it and then she announces the uturn? Hung out for the rabid media?
Osborne is no different to Brown. Does a disappearing act when times get tough. Look at how he bailed out and left Greg Hands to defend his latest omnishambles budget.
Look I know you are really stupid. I am not raging , I have a life , politics is way way down my list of priorities, I personally do not give a toss. I would like independence but given the amount of gutless wonders like yourself then I am unlikely to see it soon. It is not a big deal for me, I live a good life and can have a laugh at sad angry people like you who are one dimensional.
On that note I must be off to do a bit of painting as I am off to Madrid tomorrow so looking forward to some nice Tapas.
Delighted though I am with Ruth's triumph it does seem to me that a lot of the comments on here are seriously underrating Sturgeon's success. The result in 2011 was something of a freak, a combination of constituency and list wins that maximised the efficiency of the SNP vote in a way that was unlikely to be repeated. It was also achieved because there was a very strong desire to force through a referendum by (thankfully) just less than half of the Scottish people.
To retain the same level of dominance once that referendum has been lost is a remarkable achievement. The SNP constituency vote went up and they picked up more of the Labour fiefdoms destroying them in Glasgow. Winning the Council there next year looks like a formality now.
Under the list system majorities should be almost impossible and Nicola came very close. Like Ruth she has profited from Labour's collapse into irrelevance but like her she has also taken full advantage. As a political party the SNP remain sensationally successful and only those who regard everything other than independence itself as immaterial could say otherwise. The winners in the UK yesterday were Nicola, Ruth and Sadiq in roughly that order. Everyone else lost.
The only sane Tory in the village. PS: Compare and contrast with the opposite our site village idiot.
Aye, David usually speaks sense. The difference between actually living in Scotland and being a Yoon migrant, pontificating impotently from afar I guess.
Delighted though I am with Ruth's triumph it does seem to me that a lot of the comments on here are seriously underrating Sturgeon's success. The result in 2011 was something of a freak, a combination of constituency and list wins that maximised the efficiency of the SNP vote in a way that was unlikely to be repeated. It was also achieved because there was a very strong desire to force through a referendum by (thankfully) just less than half of the Scottish people.
To retain the same level of dominance once that referendum has been lost is a remarkable achievement. The SNP constituency vote went up and they picked up more of the Labour fiefdoms destroying them in Glasgow. Winning the Council there next year looks like a formality now.
Under the list system majorities should be almost impossible and Nicola came very close. Like Ruth she has profited from Labour's collapse into irrelevance but like her she has also taken full advantage. As a political party the SNP remain sensationally successful and only those who regard everything other than independence itself as immaterial could say otherwise. The winners in the UK yesterday were Nicola, Ruth and Sadiq in roughly that order. Everyone else lost.
The only sane Tory in the village. PS: Compare and contrast with the opposite our site village idiot.
I am glad Khan won in London. And I honestly never thought I would find myself saying that about a Labour politician. Goldsmith's campaign shown an horrendous lack of sense and decorum. His willingness to drag himself through the gutter to win shows a vast lack of both experience and of basic common sense as well as a questionable moral stand.
I may not like Khan's political views but if I had had to choose between the two even I would have been choosing him over Goldsmith.
Is it sexist for Osborne to announce a policy and then have female Morgan defend it and then she announces the uturn? Hung out for the rabid media?
Osborne is no different to Brown. Does a disappearing act when times get tough. Look at how he bailed out and left Greg Hands to defend his latest omnishambles budget.
He's really gone down in my estimations - there's a big difference between being a submarine > torpedoing your opponents, and hiding behind human shields like Gordon. I thought the fuss around the Pasty Tax et al was totally stupid and unfair.
His last efforts have left me very unimpressed re u-turns/announcing other people's policies.
Comments
ONE
But let's hope I'm wrong.
To retain the same level of dominance once that referendum has been lost is a remarkable achievement. The SNP constituency vote went up and they picked up more of the Labour fiefdoms destroying them in Glasgow. Winning the Council there next year looks like a formality now.
Under the list system majorities should be almost impossible and Nicola came very close. Like Ruth she has profited from Labour's collapse into irrelevance but like her she has also taken full advantage. As a political party the SNP remain sensationally successful and only those who regard everything other than independence itself as immaterial could say otherwise. The winners in the UK yesterday were Nicola, Ruth and Sadiq in roughly that order. Everyone else lost.
Being the son of bus driver isn't something I look for in a potential leader.
I accept I know nothing about politics or philosophy. I assume you can get a degree in either by reading a good book for about twenty minutes. Childhood is about both innocence and learning. Jezza has managed the first but skipped the second.
My subjective view is that Jezza is a well-meaning loon. If he knew me, he might well reciprocate.
Mandela's great quality was forgiveness. To forgive you need to understand another's view, not to agree with it.
Nothing else explains the extraordinary swings to the LibDems in Orkney & Shetland, Edinburgh West, and North East Fife. Or from the LibDems to the Conservative Party in Southern Scotland and the Borders.
If this continues in 2020, we can reasonably expect a few of the SNP 2015 gains to be lost.
At least let him sit at his desk first.
The thin blue line is stretched to breaking point following up minor insults to very over sensitive people. Might as well at least clarify so we know who and what we can and can't insult. I don't blame Khan wanting an even playing field.
As for 'forced marriage' that's very difficult to separate from 'arranged marrige' which is impossible to legislate against and goes way beyond Muslims
None of the above the mayor can do much about other than attempt to tank the cities job market, which would be idiotic.
They explicitly didn't run on a separatist platform (Mibbes Aye, Mibbes Naw), a left-wing platform (We'll cut your taxes) or a right-wing (We'll keep up the freebies)
When your campaign has no philosophical or political underpinnings, you need a figurehead who doesn't grate quite so badly as Wee Nippy
And for those about to argue the Tories did the same, that's bollox. At the heart of the successful Tory campaign was the Union. And it worked.
To govern, you still need judgement and integrity. That's even rarer.
You also mention the words 'Kerry McCarthy' and 'sensible animal welfare policy' in the same sentence. She used to be my MP when I worked in Bristol and she is preternaturally useless. Minor breaches of electoral law aside, she genuinely does not understand farming processes or animal welfare issues (as she did not understand the reality of state schooling). The fact that she is shadowing DEFRA rather than being shunted to some pointless non-job to keep her out of mischief tells you everything you need to know about Corbyn's judgement. Cf. Emily Thornberry, John Macdonnell, Seumas Milne, Diane Abbott...do you honestly think this won't haunt him at an election?
Deserves congratulations on winning the largest ever mandate for a UK politician.
Decency and character and integrity and honesty and kindness and a whole host of other things have nothing to do with the job your parents did or the country they were born in.
We are moral actors who make our own lives. We are not unchanging coloured-in cardboard cut-outs from a factory somewhere.
well that's Osborne out then.
I wouldn't worry about Khan's pronouncements before the election. He is a politician and will do what is electorally beneficial to himself. Like all good politicians, he will tell each group what they want to hear, but do what is best for Mr Khan.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-36228104
Corbyism in action...
I think part of the problem is that the permanent officials tend to be of a below average quality - Wormald springs to mind - but it also does seem to be a gig where too many ministers trying to make a mark for the sake of publicity or their careers end up causing total chaos because they don't get just how much of a strain the system is under, and how much more difficult constant mindless tinkering and budget cuts make things. Similar comments could be made for Health, of course.
Mr. Jonathan, or a witch whose false teeth have just fallen into her cauldron.
My mother said the other day Morgan appeared perpetually surprised.
The only caveat is that Labour has a few more years to improve, if they are to avoid catastrophe...
1. They lost seats, as against 2011.
2. They went backwards as against 2015 and failed to win equivalent constituencies to those they did last year.
3. They lost their majority.
4. They underperformed the polls and, hence, expectations.
None of that should detract from how many seats and constituencies they did win, nor that their minority administration should find little difficulty governing. All the same, the long ascent which saw them rise to extraordinary heights now looks to be over.
I would caution that the next general election will be fought on a different battleground to this year. Namely SCON defending a two term Conservative Westminster government not attacking a two term SNP Holyrood government.
Forced marriage and arranged marriage are clearly distinct. The former involves coercion or duress, the latter doesnt. It might be hard to prove that a marriage was forced but then a lot of crimes are hard to prove.
By chace I was in Manchester city centre when they opened the new tram service. I suddenly found myself in a very large crowd of cheering people and from nowhere the Queen appeared. She was there for the grand opening and was going to take the first journey.
A girl standing next to me was screaming and waving two union jacks. Even as the Queen entered the tram the girl continued waving and cheering. I said to her that she seemed very excited to see the queen.? "It's not that" she said. "My Dad's driving the tram!"
2008 – Osborne’s ‘rabbit stuck in the headlights’ response to the recession allowed Brown to remain Labour leader
2012 – Osborne’s ‘omnishambles’ budge allowed EdM to remain Labour leader
2016 -Osborne’s ‘ultrashambles’ budget allows Corbyn to remain Labour leader
Is the Tory so short of ability that Morgan needs to be a Cabinet minister?
Plato , re last thread, luckily you were wrong , my seat was an SNP hold with increased vote. Only Tories in Ayrshire are in the south. When the dust settles it will be interesting , the nasties will not be able to hide their Westminster pograms against the poor now that they are the opposition so should be fun at FM's questions.
We will see if their 23% borrowed votes are actually a bonus, their donkeys will have a spotlight on them.
"Mr. CD13, a politician willing to support a blasphemy law to get elected is worthy of contempt."
Oops, there goes a lot of politicians. I am contemptuous of many, but I have to be realistic. The honest ones never do well. I've a lot of time for Frank Field but he always fell foul of the "political" politicians. You can get elected by the voters but the party machinery controls.
Khan is no worse than many others, and he knows that making a pig's ear of Mayor will see him side-lined. I perhaps shouldn't have said 'pigs ear' but as in Monty Python ... Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah. I also suspect he's no Islamist and as Mayor of London, his powers are limited and won't extend to Yorkshire. If Londoners really want to be Londonstan, that's up to them.
He'll be a Labour figurehead ... a few eye-catching irrelevancies and hopefully not many financial errors. Then he'll give Jezza an almighty shove.
As for being short of ability, my cat is available...
I'll hopefully have the webscraper written today to produce spreadsheet of Scottish results both Constituency and list.
'Shetland and Orkney should be permitted to remain part of the United Kingdom if voters in the islands reject independence in a referendum.
That’s the view of ex-Conservative minister the Earl of Caithness, who has tabled amendments to the Scotland Bill currently going through parliament at Westminster. It will be discussed in the House of Lords later this week.'
http://tinyurl.com/haw65ov
We will see if their 23% borrowed votes are actually a bonus, their donkeys will have a spotlight on them.
Lol - the merest hint of humility poking through the bravado there.
A couple of dozen suspensions for anti-Semitism, another 50 before that by Labour's Compliance Unit, endless Hitler from Ken, don't shoot-to-kill a terrorist, won't push the button, give back the Falklands, my friendships with IRA and Hamas... and on and on and on.
And Jezza's own been Leader since September!!
For low 20s you need diehard core Labour support to defect or not vote. I was expecting to see more signs of that yesterday.
I appreciate I leFt out the greens.
If we are in the middle of a terrible recession then maybe Corbyn pulls it off.
Most of their long term fans too feart to make a prediction of success but then creeping out of the woodwork to shamelessly aftertime, plus a whole bunch of goonish newbies and gloryhunters 'celebrating' their achievement who've never seen them play, can only name one of their players and who agreed with the general consensus that they were pretty crap right until the very last moment.
Though of course the stark difference is Leicester won convincingly while the SCons came second, 23pts behind the winners.
Unable to win the big trophy but unwilling to sack the manager...
PS: Compare and contrast with the opposite our site village idiot.
On that note I must be off to do a bit of painting as I am off to Madrid tomorrow so looking forward to some nice Tapas.
The difference between actually living in Scotland and being a Yoon migrant, pontificating impotently from afar I guess.
I may not like Khan's political views but if I had had to choose between the two even I would have been choosing him over Goldsmith.
His last efforts have left me very unimpressed re u-turns/announcing other people's policies.