@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
Special Relationship was supposedly between the 2 countries, not for the benefit of it's leaders. Today's intervention proves otherwise.
@NicoHines: Obama's Britain "would go to the back of the queue" soundbite must have been written by No. 10? No way he'd say queue instead of 'the line'
That's actually a very good point.
Hmm. I think his speech writer can translate american to english.
I think his speech writer can include snippets provided to him by Downing Street too.
All these people bemoaning the special relationship forget this is exactly what our PM wants him to say. Ignore that and you ignore the realpolitik of the situation.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
It may just show the opposite, that the UK PM does what he is told, there's just something fundamentally wrong about a UK PM standing back while a foreign leader makes threats.
This is the second time Cameron has done it and it makes him look weak.
It would make him look weak if Cameron opposed what Obama was saying, rather than cheering him on.
On my Facebook news feed I have a post by David Cameron exuding over what Obama has said. So he's not exactly unhappy is he?
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
It may just show the opposite, that the UK PM does what he is told, there's just something fundamentally wrong about a UK PM standing back while a foreign leader makes threats.
This is the second time Cameron has done it and it makes him look weak.
So far, Cameron has allowed himself to be humiliated by Hollande and Obama. Who's next in the queue to give him a right royal rogering?
@NicoHines: Obama's Britain "would go to the back of the queue" soundbite must have been written by No. 10? No way he'd say queue instead of 'the line'
That's actually a very good point.
Hmm. I think his speech writer can translate american to english.
I think his speech writer can include snippets provided to him by Downing Street too.
All these people bemoaning the special relationship forget this is exactly what our PM wants him to say. Ignore that and you ignore the realpolitik of the situation.
the realpolitik is that come November Obama's off playing golf.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
Obama is debunking leave's case in just one speech. Surely today is a big moment in the campaign
You say that everyday.
If Cameron was all for Leave then so would you be.
I have declared for remain on the arguments and today my wife has declared for remain, nothing to do with David Cameron
Well that's clear from Obama. Do as we say or we will fk you over. Ally my arse. And the British PM is complicit in these threats. Truly truly shameful. I voted for that weasel
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
Special Relationship was supposedly between the 2 countries, not for the benefit of it's leaders. Today's intervention proves otherwise.
Be realistic, it has always been between the leadership of the countries. Who we have as PM is who represents us on the world stage, foreign Presidents have always and will always listen and speak more to our own leader than our opposition.
If we don't like that, we're free to change our leader.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
Obama is debunking leave's case in just one speech. Surely today is a big moment in the campaign
You say that everyday.
If Cameron was all for Leave then so would you be.
I have declared for remain on the arguments and today my wife has declared for remain, nothing to do with David Cameron
Two months to go until the referendum. Plenty of time to switch.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
It may just show the opposite, that the UK PM does what he is told, there's just something fundamentally wrong about a UK PM standing back while a foreign leader makes threats.
This is the second time Cameron has done it and it makes him look weak.
It would make him look weak if Cameron opposed what Obama was saying, rather than cheering him on.
On my Facebook news feed I have a post by David Cameron exuding over what Obama has said. So he's not exactly unhappy is he?
It's not about Obama though, it's about Cameron and just how much he will demean his own standing. large chunks of both left and right will look at him and think tosser.
@NicoHines: Obama's Britain "would go to the back of the queue" soundbite must have been written by No. 10? No way he'd say queue instead of 'the line'
That's actually a very good point.
Hmm. I think his speech writer can translate american to english.
I think his speech writer can include snippets provided to him by Downing Street too.
All these people bemoaning the special relationship forget this is exactly what our PM wants him to say. Ignore that and you ignore the realpolitik of the situation.
the realpolitik is that come November Obama's off playing golf.
And if it wasn't Obama it would be Bush or Clinton or whoever else saying the exact same thing. The Americans want us in the EU as it suits their own selfish interests, our leaders want us in the EU for their own reasons. There is and always will be a relationship between our leaders and theirs and with our leaders blessing there's no reason for them not to push for what they and our leadership both want.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
It may just show the opposite, that the UK PM does what he is told, there's just something fundamentally wrong about a UK PM standing back while a foreign leader makes threats.
This is the second time Cameron has done it and it makes him look weak.
It would make him look weak if Cameron opposed what Obama was saying, rather than cheering him on.
On my Facebook news feed I have a post by David Cameron exuding over what Obama has said. So he's not exactly unhappy is he?
It's not about Obama though, it's about Cameron and just how much he will demean his own standing. large chucks of both left and right will look at him and think tosser.
Large chunks of the Right are now thinking that the Left were correct all along.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
It may just show the opposite, that the UK PM does what he is told, there's just something fundamentally wrong about a UK PM standing back while a foreign leader makes threats.
This is the second time Cameron has done it and it makes him look weak.
It would make him look weak if Cameron opposed what Obama was saying, rather than cheering him on.
On my Facebook news feed I have a post by David Cameron exuding over what Obama has said. So he's not exactly unhappy is he?
It's not about Obama though, it's about Cameron and just how much he will demean his own standing. large chucks of both left and right will look at him and think tosser.
He's made his bed. The left will always hate him. The right leavers do now. Nothing he says will change that. What he seeks now is to win and to win big. Today helps him to win, it does not hurt him.
Pussyfooting around backing remain but not pushing for it would have achieved what exactly?
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
It may just show the opposite, that the UK PM does what he is told, there's just something fundamentally wrong about a UK PM standing back while a foreign leader makes threats.
This is the second time Cameron has done it and it makes him look weak.
It would make him look weak if Cameron opposed what Obama was saying, rather than cheering him on.
On my Facebook news feed I have a post by David Cameron exuding over what Obama has said. So he's not exactly unhappy is he?
It's not about Obama though, it's about Cameron and just how much he will demean his own standing. large chunks of both left and right will look at him and think tosser.
"It's not about Obama though, it's about Cameron and just how much he will demean his own standing. large chunks of both left and right will look at him and think loser."
@michaelsavage: Huge intervention from Obama - Britain goes to the back of the queue for a trade deal in event of #Brexit. nuclear.
Irrelevant. There is no 'trade deal' now and we trade very successfully with the US.
After Brexit we can gain even more from transatlantic trade as we can remove the barriers the EU currently places on US imports, leading to a fall in our import prices and improved UK standards of living.
We do not need 'trade deals', we need to be out of the 'trade deal' with the EU that we are currently in and which reduces economic welfare.
Post TTIP, there will be no barriers on US imports to the EU.
@NicoHines: Obama's Britain "would go to the back of the queue" soundbite must have been written by No. 10? No way he'd say queue instead of 'the line'
That's actually a very good point.
Hmm. I think his speech writer can translate american to english.
I think his speech writer can include snippets provided to him by Downing Street too.
All these people bemoaning the special relationship forget this is exactly what our PM wants him to say. Ignore that and you ignore the realpolitik of the situation.
the realpolitik is that come November Obama's off playing golf.
And if it wasn't Obama it would be Bush or Clinton or whoever else saying the exact same thing. The Americans want us in the EU as it suits their own selfish interests, our leaders want us in the EU for their own reasons. There is and always will be a relationship between our leaders and theirs and with our leaders blessing there's no reason for them not to push for what they and our leadership both want.
Of course they want us doing their bidding, which sort of asks the question why doesn't a UK PM stand up for his own country's interests in the way POTUS stands up for the USA?
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
Obama is debunking leave's case in just one speech. Surely today is a big moment in the campaign
Obama's issuing threats. Hardly the way to treat your supposed closest ally, in the so called Special Relationship. Proves it's just a pile of crap.
After Leave's remarks today Obama knows exactly who is friends are in the UK. He is not issuing threats he is debunking Leave's idea that they are going to sail into great trade deals with all the people they have spent the last 6 months insulting.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
It may just show the opposite, that the UK PM does what he is told, there's just something fundamentally wrong about a UK PM standing back while a foreign leader makes threats.
This is the second time Cameron has done it and it makes him look weak.
It would make him look weak if Cameron opposed what Obama was saying, rather than cheering him on.
On my Facebook news feed I have a post by David Cameron exuding over what Obama has said. So he's not exactly unhappy is he?
It's not about Obama though, it's about Cameron and just how much he will demean his own standing. large chucks of both left and right will look at him and think tosser.
Large chunks of the Right are now thinking that the Left were correct all along.
Which is totally irrelevant and moot. The left lost the election, the right got their referendum and if they lose it then the lose it just as the left lost the election.
Cameron is doing what he's done for the last two elections and referendum: whatever it takes to win. Anyone who doesn't see that as inevitable is surely naive?
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
It may just show the opposite, that the UK PM does what he is told, there's just something fundamentally wrong about a UK PM standing back while a foreign leader makes threats.
This is the second time Cameron has done it and it makes him look weak.
It would make him look weak if Cameron opposed what Obama was saying, rather than cheering him on.
On my Facebook news feed I have a post by David Cameron exuding over what Obama has said. So he's not exactly unhappy is he?
It's not about Obama though, it's about Cameron and just how much he will demean his own standing. large chucks of both left and right will look at him and think tosser.
Large chunks of the Right are now thinking that the Left were correct all along.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
Obama is debunking leave's case in just one speech. Surely today is a big moment in the campaign
You say that everyday.
If Cameron was all for Leave then so would you be.
I have declared for remain on the arguments and today my wife has declared for remain, nothing to do with David Cameron
Two months to go until the referendum. Plenty of time to switch.
Thanks for that but we both genuinely believe the case has been made for remain and the argument for leave is frankly diminshing by the day
@NicoHines: Obama's Britain "would go to the back of the queue" soundbite must have been written by No. 10? No way he'd say queue instead of 'the line'
That's actually a very good point.
Hmm. I think his speech writer can translate american to english.
I think his speech writer can include snippets provided to him by Downing Street too.
All these people bemoaning the special relationship forget this is exactly what our PM wants him to say. Ignore that and you ignore the realpolitik of the situation.
the realpolitik is that come November Obama's off playing golf.
And if it wasn't Obama it would be Bush or Clinton or whoever else saying the exact same thing. The Americans want us in the EU as it suits their own selfish interests, our leaders want us in the EU for their own reasons. There is and always will be a relationship between our leaders and theirs and with our leaders blessing there's no reason for them not to push for what they and our leadership both want.
Of course they want us doing their bidding, which sort of asks the question why doesn't a UK PM stand up for his own country's interests in the way POTUS stands up for the USA?
Our PM has decided its in our interests to vote Remain and is seeking to use every advantage he can find to get that result. Sounds exactly like what a POTUS would do.
Cameron's happy for foreign leaders to slam Britain, if it doesn't vote the way Cameron wants.
Although I'd like to hope Obama's meddling will get people's backs up, I suspect it'll reinforce fears and help Remain significantly.
There's really nothing at all to be concerned about. In case of Brexit we continue to export to the US as now, and we remove EU protective barriers that make US imports more expensive and which damage UK living standards.
It's a winning situation and better than 'business as usual'. The biggest problem we have with our trading system is the effects of EU membership.
1) David Cameron is not going to back down in the face of threats, express or implied, to his leadership. He is fighting this referendum to win and he hasn't even heard of Queensberry rules. He simply doesn't care what affront it causes those who are opposed to him.
2) Boris Johnson isn't going to get a job off David Cameron after the referendum unless David Cameron must give him one. And "must" is going to be interpreted in a very strict way, in the same way that we must breathe.
3) Remain are working on a very well-planned grid.
@michaelsavage: Huge intervention from Obama - Britain goes to the back of the queue for a trade deal in event of #Brexit. nuclear.
Irrelevant. There is no 'trade deal' now and we trade very successfully with the US.
After Brexit we can gain even more from transatlantic trade as we can remove the barriers the EU currently places on US imports, leading to a fall in our import prices and improved UK standards of living.
We do not need 'trade deals', we need to be out of the 'trade deal' with the EU that we are currently in and which reduces economic welfare.
Post TTIP, there will be no barriers on US imports to the EU.
And, according to the German study which runnymede pointed us to the other day, the biggest winner from TTIP in the EU will be the UK.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
It may just show the opposite, that the UK PM does what he is told, there's just something fundamentally wrong about a UK PM standing back while a foreign leader makes threats.
This is the second time Cameron has done it and it makes him look weak.
It would make him look weak if Cameron opposed what Obama was saying, rather than cheering him on.
On my Facebook news feed I have a post by David Cameron exuding over what Obama has said. So he's not exactly unhappy is he?
It's not about Obama though, it's about Cameron and just how much he will demean his own standing. large chucks of both left and right will look at him and think tosser.
Large chunks of the Right are now thinking that the Left were correct all along.
Well I have found one thing out in this referendum from the remain side,what a small shit country we are with weak liars for leaders of the establishment.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
It may just show the opposite, tunhappy is he?
It's not about Obama though, it's abn and to win big. Today helps him to win, it does not hurt him.
Pussyfooting around backing remain but not pushing for it would have achieved what exactly?
Oh he certainly has made his bed, but I can't see how it won't hurt him.
He's making the cracks in his party deeper and those who don't like the Tories will be egging him on for a split. His biggest weakness always has been his poor party management.
@NicoHines: Obama's Britain "would go to the back of the queue" soundbite must have been written by No. 10? No way he'd say queue instead of 'the line'
That's actually a very good point.
Hmm. I think his speech writer can translate american to english.
I think his speech writer can include snippets provided to him by Downing Street too.
All these people bemoaning the special relationship forget this is exactly what our PM wants him to say. Ignore that and you ignore the realpolitik of the situation.
the realpolitik is that come November Obama's off playing golf.
And if it wasn't Obama it would be Bush or Clinton or whoever else saying the exact same thing. The Americans want us in the EU as it suits their own selfish interests, our leaders want us in the EU for their own reasons. There is and always will be a relationship between our leaders and theirs and with our leaders blessing there's no reason for them not to push for what they and our leadership both want.
Of course they want us doing their bidding, which sort of asks the question why doesn't a UK PM stand up for his own country's interests in the way POTUS stands up for the USA?
Our PM has decided its in our interests to vote Remain and is seeking to use every advantage he can find to get that result. Sounds exactly like what a POTUS would do.
No POTUS would stand idly by while their country was being savaged by another.
Oh he certainly has made his bed, but I can't see how it won't hurt him.
He's making the cracks in his party deeper and those who don't like the Tories will be egging him on for a split. His biggest weakness always has been his poor party management.
1) David Cameron is not going to back down in the face of threats, express or implied, to his leadership. He is fighting this referendum to win and he hasn't even heard of Queensberry rules. He simply doesn't care what affront it causes those who are opposed to him.
2) Boris Johnson isn't going to get a job off David Cameron after the referendum unless David Cameron must give him one. And "must" is going to be interpreted in a very strict way, in the same way that we must breathe.
3) Remain are working on a very well-planned grid.
@michaelsavage: Huge intervention from Obama - Britain goes to the back of the queue for a trade deal in event of #Brexit. nuclear.
Irrelevant. There is no 'trade deal' now and we trade very successfully with the US.
After Brexit we can gain even more from transatlantic trade as we can remove the barriers the EU currently places on US imports, leading to a fall in our import prices and improved UK standards of living.
We do not need 'trade deals', we need to be out of the 'trade deal' with the EU that we are currently in and which reduces economic welfare.
Post TTIP, there will be no barriers on US imports to the EU.
But we don't need TTIP to get there Robert. We could do that ourselves, tomorrow.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
It may just show the opposite, that the UK PM does what he is told, there's just something fundamentally wrong about a UK PM standing back while a foreign leader makes threats.
This is the second time Cameron has done it and it makes him look weak.
It would make him look weak if Cameron opposed what Obama was saying, rather than cheering him on.
On my Facebook news feed I have a post by David Cameron exuding over what Obama has said. So he's not exactly unhappy is he?
It's not about Obama though, it's about Cameron and just how much he will demean his own standing. large chucks of both left and right will look at him and think tosser.
Large chunks of the Right are now thinking that the Left were correct all along.
I have to say I find it ironic that in a thread titled about "the total ruthlessness of the Tory election machine" there are so many whining about our Tory PM being totally ruthless in this referendum.
Nothing that has happened today should come as a surprise to anyone at all.
1) David Cameron is not going to back down in the face of threats, express or implied, to his leadership. He is fighting this referendum to win and he hasn't even heard of Queensberry rules. He simply doesn't care what affront it causes those who are opposed to him....
I think the reason for that is that he'd get the opprobium anyway. So he might as well win. If he wins decisively enough (which is looking increasingly likely), it won't matter that there are a few bruised egos left lying around.
I have to say I find it ironic that in a thread titled about "the total ruthlessness of the Tory election machine" there are so many whining about our Tory PM being totally ruthless in this referendum.
Nothing that has happened today should come as a surprise to anyone at all.
@ShippersUnbound: Masterful news management. Obama gets the killer line out early, allowing @bbclaurak to get outside for 6pm live, winds up presser at 17.56
@NicoHines: Obama's Britain "would go to the back of the queue" soundbite must have been written by No. 10? No way he'd say queue instead of 'the line'
That's actually a very good point.
Hmm. I think his speech writer can translate american to english.
I think his speech writer can include snippets provided to him by Downing Street too.
All these people bemoaning the special relationship forget this is exactly what our PM wants him to say. Ignore that and you ignore the realpolitik of the situation.
the realpolitik is that come November Obama's off playing golf.
And if it wasn't Obama it would be Bush or Clinton or whoever else saying the exact same thing. The Americans want us in the EU as it suits their own selfish interests, our leaders want us in the EU for their own reasons. There is and always will be a relationship between our leaders and theirs and with our leaders blessing there's no reason for them not to push for what they and our leadership both want.
Of course they want us doing their bidding, which sort of asks the question why doesn't a UK PM stand up for his own country's interests in the way POTUS stands up for the USA?
Our PM has decided its in our interests to vote Remain and is seeking to use every advantage he can find to get that result. Sounds exactly like what a POTUS would do.
No POTUS would stand idly by while their country was being savaged by another.
Our country isn't being savaged. Cameron views our country as being in the EU (which it is) and in no way is our country within the EU being savaged.
If America were having a referendum to become communist for example and a stridently anti-communist President were campaigning against that and seeking every advantage he could to win that then I think he'd see no problem with an ally having a go against communism and saying why America's status quo is great and shouldn't change.
1) David Cameron is not going to back down in the face of threats, express or implied, to his leadership. He is fighting this referendum to win and he hasn't even heard of Queensberry rules. He simply doesn't care what affront it causes those who are opposed to him....
I think the reason for that is that he'd get the opprobium anyway. So he might as well win. If he wins decisively enough (which is looking increasingly likely), it won't matter that there are a few bruised egos left lying around.
Oh I agree. He's never been a party leader to care much about the wider party and he certainly can't be bothered massaging the egos of people he thinks are idiots.
He is as you say gambling that he will win big. The mood in the Conservative party will be sulphurous enough after the referendum even then. If the margin is not that great, the sharpening of steel will start.
I have to say I find it ironic that in a thread titled about "the total ruthlessness of the Tory election machine" there are so many whining about our Tory PM being totally ruthless in this referendum.
Nothing that has happened today should come as a surprise to anyone at all.
Corbyn does not have the cojones to meet Obama..he is afraid to ask the questions he has face to face..no way is Corbyn a leader..he prefers to whinge and whine from the shadows.
1) David Cameron is not going to back down in the face of threats, express or implied, to his leadership. He is fighting this referendum to win and he hasn't even heard of Queensberry rules. He simply doesn't care what affront it causes those who are opposed to him.
2) Boris Johnson isn't going to get a job off David Cameron after the referendum unless David Cameron must give him one. And "must" is going to be interpreted in a very strict way, in the same way that we must breathe.
3) Remain are working on a very well-planned grid.
4) Leave are not.
I wrote to Vote Leave at the end of February warning them of (1) (3) and (4)
Oh I agree. He's never been a party leader to care much about the wider party and he certainly can't be bothered massaging the egos of people he thinks are idiots.
He is as you say gambling that he will win big. The mood in the Conservative party will be sulphurous enough after the referendum even then. If the margin is not that great, the sharpening of steel will start.
I'm not sure that the atmosphere in the party will be all that sulphurous, actually, provided the margin is reasonably big. The other side of the coin - and a consideration which I expect is very powerful in the minds of Cameron and Osborne - is that a decisive result could finally lance the 20-year festering boil. That's a big prize, if it can be achieved. It's obviously not without risk, but the bigger risk would be going half-hearted.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
Obama is debunking leave's case in just one speech. Surely today is a big moment in the campaign
You say that everyday.
If Cameron was all for Leave then so would you be.
I have declared for remain on the arguments and today my wife has declared for remain, nothing to do with David Cameron
Oh I agree. He's never been a party leader to care much about the wider party and he certainly can't be bothered massaging the egos of people he thinks are idiots.
He is as you say gambling that he will win big. The mood in the Conservative party will be sulphurous enough after the referendum even then. If the margin is not that great, the sharpening of steel will start.
I'm not sure that the atmosphere in the party will be all that sulphurous, actually, provided the margin is reasonably big. The other side of the coin - and a consideration which I expect is very powerful in the minds of Cameron and Osborne - is that a decisive result could finally lance the 20-year festering boil. That's a big prize, if it can be achieved. It's obviously not without risk, but the bigger risk would be going half-hearted.
I have to say I find it ironic that in a thread titled about "the total ruthlessness of the Tory election machine" there are so many whining about our Tory PM being totally ruthless in this referendum.
Nothing that has happened today should come as a surprise to anyone at all.
Sadly, it doesn't.
Only surprise to me is that he has no backbone whatsoever and the longest tongue on the planet. I knew he was up there but not the world champ.
I hope we meet at a PB meet. Your family background sounds very interesting.
I am afraid, Ms Cyclefree, that Nick in person, nice though he is, is not as exotic as he sounds!
Yes, I'm occasionally depressed that the exotic family background on both sides has produced no more than a semi-retired backbench MP - I feel I should have started a cult or led Cornwall to independence or something. Regression to the mean, eh?
But Cyclefree and I did meet briefly at a play- certainly the most glamorous PB denizen I've come across. Meeting again at a PB do has definite appeal.
@NicoHines: Obama's Britain "would go to the back of the queue" soundbite must have been written by No. 10? No way he'd say queue instead of 'the line'
That's actually a very good point.
Hmm. I think his speech writer can translate american to english.
I think his speech writer can include snippets provided to him by Downing Street too.
All these people bemoaning the special relationship forget this is exactly what our PM wants him to say. Ignore that and you ignore the realpolitik of the situation.
the realpolitik is that come November Obama's off playing golf.
And if it wasn't Obama it would be Bush or Clinton or whoever else saying the exact same thing. The Americans want us in the EU as it suits their own selfish interests, our leaders want us in the EU for their own reasons. There is and always will be a relationship between our leaders and theirs and with our leaders blessing there's no reason for them not to push for what they and our leadership both want.
Of course they want us doing their bidding, which sort of asks the question why doesn't a UK PM stand up for his own country's interests in the way POTUS stands up for the USA?
Our PM has decided its in our interests to vote Remain and is seeking to use every advantage he can find to get that result. Sounds exactly like what a POTUS would do.
Nah a POTUS wouldn't deman his own office by looking weak.
What we have is a UKPM who needs someone else to acrry arguments with his own electorate
Well I have found one thing out in this referendum from the remain side,what a small shit country we are with weak liars for leaders of the establishment.
Yep. A vote for leave is a vote to increase that establishment's influence. Tricky.
As Gove thinks the referendum result will send a clear message to the unfortunate masses of Europe who have the misfortune not to live on this sceptred isle - what will be the effect on the EU of the nailed-on overwhelming victory for REMAIN?
Seems to me it would be taken as a massive vote of confidence in the whole project, given that the UK is the most Eurosceptic nation by a country mile.
It would be hilarious if the only outcome of the thing was to encourage the EU to go further and faster towards ever-closer union.
Comments
All these people bemoaning the special relationship forget this is exactly what our PM wants him to say. Ignore that and you ignore the realpolitik of the situation.
On my Facebook news feed I have a post by David Cameron exuding over what Obama has said. So he's not exactly unhappy is he?
If we don't like that, we're free to change our leader.
7. It is shameful for Cameron that Obama agrees with him.
Cameron's happy for foreign leaders to slam Britain, if it doesn't vote the way Cameron wants.
Although I'd like to hope Obama's meddling will get people's backs up, I suspect it'll reinforce fears and help Remain significantly.
Pussyfooting around backing remain but not pushing for it would have achieved what exactly?
Cameron is doing what he's done for the last two elections and referendum: whatever it takes to win. Anyone who doesn't see that as inevitable is surely naive?
Speak for yourself, I'm loving it!
It's a winning situation and better than 'business as usual'. The biggest problem we have with our trading system is the effects of EU membership.
1) David Cameron is not going to back down in the face of threats, express or implied, to his leadership. He is fighting this referendum to win and he hasn't even heard of Queensberry rules. He simply doesn't care what affront it causes those who are opposed to him.
2) Boris Johnson isn't going to get a job off David Cameron after the referendum unless David Cameron must give him one. And "must" is going to be interpreted in a very strict way, in the same way that we must breathe.
3) Remain are working on a very well-planned grid.
4) Leave are not.
Is Cameron underneath Obama's lectern yet?
Oh he certainly has made his bed, but I can't see how it won't hurt him.
He's making the cracks in his party deeper and those who don't like the Tories will be egging him on for a split. His biggest weakness always has been his poor party management.
This just reifnforces it.
1) Cameron is an unprincipled shit.
2) The 'Special' Relationship isn't.
Nothing that has happened today should come as a surprise to anyone at all.
If America were having a referendum to become communist for example and a stridently anti-communist President were campaigning against that and seeking every advantage he could to win that then I think he'd see no problem with an ally having a go against communism and saying why America's status quo is great and shouldn't change.
He is as you say gambling that he will win big. The mood in the Conservative party will be sulphurous enough after the referendum even then. If the margin is not that great, the sharpening of steel will start.
http://order-order.com/2016/04/22/obamas-threat-to-britain/
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
I had really hoped that this in/out referendum would be debated on the merits.
But all we get are abuse, threats and bullying.
But Cyclefree and I did meet briefly at a play- certainly the most glamorous PB denizen I've come across. Meeting again at a PB do has definite appeal.
What we have is a UKPM who needs someone else to acrry arguments with his own electorate
Seems to me it would be taken as a massive vote of confidence in the whole project, given that the UK is the most Eurosceptic nation by a country mile.
It would be hilarious if the only outcome of the thing was to encourage the EU to go further and faster towards ever-closer union.