I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
Perusing the Conservative manifesto I see they are suggesting a surprising radical plan to improve educational standards by simplifying the English language to contain just the words "Ruth Davidson for a Strong Opposition"
The SNP were hoping to go one better. They put 31 pictures of Nicola in the manifesto so that even their supporters who can't read know where to put their mark...
I only got 21 when I counted (22 if you include a partial image of her left arm) but given most of them are group shots in a huge montage I suppose she could be one of the stick figures in there if you used a magnifying glass.
Another way of looking at it is pictures of Saint Nicola blessed be her name are on 4 pages of the manifesto as opposed to the six pages of giant, often full page, shots of evil tory Ruth Davidson in the Conservative manifesto
Scott was using Tory forecasting methods to count, just surprising it was only 50% out rather than the usual 250%
Eurozone integration deepening over the next decade seems all but certain. QMV mass gives them the right to impose what they wish on the rest of the EU. And suppose we get the choice of joining the euro or leaving the EU?
Today, we'd vote to leave on that basis. But years down the line, that may not be the case.
If we were given that choice, I would anticipate that the Great and the Good, and the foreign leaders, would favour our joining the Euro.
If Blair had called one in 2002 we would have got exactly the same shit during a pro-euro referendum campaign as we're getting now, probably with not a handful of Tory turncoats joining in too.
Working against it would have been the strong day-to-day brand and use of the pound, plus the fact it was the status quo.
But just how close would it have been?
I think that Blair might well have pulled it off, at the height of his powers.
The campaign would be do you want The Queen on your money or some Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey?
The campaign would have been along the lines that the sensible moderate people (eg Tony Blair, Paddy Ashdown, Ken Clarke, Charles Kennedy) , big businesses, trade unions, the CBI, the FT, the Economist, foreign leaders, all saw Euro membership as the future, whereas only the stuck in the mud little Englanders wanted to keep Sterling.
I think the pound in people's pocket is something the country would never give up.
But which side would Brown and Balls have been on? As they opposed it and successfully blocked Blair via the Red Lion pub.
Which football teams would Boris qualify to play for ?
All four Home Nations, The USA, and Turkey
Can't see any Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish in his ancestry.
If you're a UK citizen and resident, you can play any of the four home countries, so long as you've not played in a competitive match for another's age group team.
Has the 1993 Home Nations agreement been rescinded?
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
By an astonishing coincidence we have on this forum one of the realm's foremost experts on turnip farming....
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
The UK will never give up Sterling. We like our pound and there will be a referendum if any politician tried to sign us up into the Euro.
The SNP are a one trick pony, now with one leg broken, but will hirple along for a time while Sturgeon offers vague promises to the cult and, hopefully, in a few years the carcass will be buried and forgotten.
This is pretty ineffectual stuff. The SNP are about to win all but three or four constituencies.
Perusing the Conservative manifesto I see they are suggesting a surprising radical plan to improve educational standards by simplifying the English language to contain just the words "Ruth Davidson for a Strong Opposition"
twitter.com/leomiklasz/status/722382350085189633
Anyone who doesn't know she's a Tory is living under a rock.
Rob, how desperate can it be when they have to hide the TORY to try and get into double digit votes. Pathetic campaign by lickspittle lapdogs.
You seriously think people don't think/remember she's a Tory?
Goldsmith seems to have suffered a personality loss. He comes across as an empty suit. I think he's trying to avoid negatives and in doing so has managed to remove any positives too.
The Tories best chance is that the campaign is so lackadaisical on both sides that few people actually vote, and that there's unexpected enthusiasm for doing so in the leafy places.
Khan won't be good, but I can't see him dropping his total ineffectualism, and as such perhaps he'll do little bad.
I think they're both poor candidates. I'd tick the 'someone else' box if there was one - apart of course that is from the other actual candidates. I know very little about them generally, but the little I do know encourages me to avoid them like the plague. (sorry plague)
Which football teams would Boris qualify to play for ?
All four Home Nations, The USA, and Turkey
Can't see any Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish in his ancestry.
If you're a UK citizen and resident, you can play any of the four home countries, so long as you've not played in a competitive match for another's age group team.
Has the 1993 Home Nations agreement been rescinded?
The SNP are a one trick pony, now with one leg broken, but will hirple along for a time while Sturgeon offers vague promises to the cult and, hopefully, in a few years the carcass will be buried and forgotten.
This is pretty ineffectual stuff. The SNP are about to win all but three or four constituencies.
Perusing the Conservative manifesto I see they are suggesting a surprising radical plan to improve educational standards by simplifying the English language to contain just the words "Ruth Davidson for a Strong Opposition"
twitter.com/leomiklasz/status/722382350085189633
Anyone who doesn't know she's a Tory is living under a rock.
Rob, how desperate can it be when they have to hide the TORY to try and get into double digit votes. Pathetic campaign by lickspittle lapdogs.
You seriously think people don't think/remember she's a Tory?
In Glasgow Conservative leaflets are asking people to vote for Ruth Davidson on the list. They are pretty much banking on people forgetting she is a Tory.
Perusing the Conservative manifesto I see they are suggesting a surprising radical plan to improve educational standards by simplifying the English language to contain just the words "Ruth Davidson for a Strong Opposition"
The SNP were hoping to go one better. They put 31 pictures of Nicola in the manifesto so that even their supporters who can't read know where to put their mark...
I only got 21 when I counted (22 if you include a partial image of her left arm) but given most of them are group shots in a huge montage I suppose she could be one of the stick figures in there if you used a magnifying glass.
Another way of looking at it is pictures of Saint Nicola blessed be her name are on 4 pages of the manifesto as opposed to the six pages of giant, often full page, shots of evil tory Ruth Davidson in the Conservative manifesto
Scott was using Tory forecasting methods to count, just surprising it was only 50% out rather than the usual 250%
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
MD, you cube them and boil them, then mash with a little butter , pepper etc. Bit dense for roasting compared to parsnips.
Which football teams would Boris qualify to play for ?
All four Home Nations, The USA, and Turkey
Can't see any Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish in his ancestry.
If you're a UK citizen and resident, you can play any of the four home countries, so long as you've not played in a competitive match for another's age group team.
Has the 1993 Home Nations agreement been rescinded?
I agree. I think the attacks on Obama are silly and pointless.
Talking of dubious associations, you don't give the impression of being entirely at home with the Leave camp. Are you sure you want to vote with them? In theory, of course, one should vote on the merits rather than on who happens to agree. But the direct consequence of Leave will immedaitely be a pro-Leave Prime Minister, and it's quite hard to see past Boris in that case. And I may be biased, but I find it very hard to imagine a negotiation between Boris and the EU resulting in a productive outcome.
Mr. Eagles, and one if we ever give powers to the EU, or on Lisbon.
Even if there were a vote, a few years down the line with both major parties and those dreadfully important international organisations and leaders supporting a Yes vote, it's a credible possibility.
I hope it never happens, but just assuming something won't is complacent.
Mr. Nabavi, I very rarely boil vegetables, and I don't think I've ever glazed any.
Roast parsnips are perhaps my favourite food. The French ignorance of their excellence is deeply suspicious.
The SNP are a one trick pony, now with one leg broken, but will hirple along for a time while Sturgeon offers vague promises to the cult and, hopefully, in a few years the carcass will be buried and forgotten.
This is pretty ineffectual stuff. The SNP are about to win all but three or four constituencies.
Perusing the Conservative manifesto I see they are suggesting a surprising radical plan to improve educational standards by simplifying the English language to contain just the words "Ruth Davidson for a Strong Opposition"
twitter.com/leomiklasz/status/722382350085189633
Anyone who doesn't know she's a Tory is living under a rock.
Rob, how desperate can it be when they have to hide the TORY to try and get into double digit votes. Pathetic campaign by lickspittle lapdogs.
You seriously think people don't think/remember she's a Tory?
A recent poll re her and labour leader showed that almost half of people polled did not know them , she fared a bit better than Labour but many many people did not know who she was.
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
By an astonishing coincidence we have on this forum one of the realm's foremost experts on turnip farming....
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
The UK will never give up Sterling. We like our pound and there will be a referendum if any politician tried to sign us up into the Euro.
A referendum conducted in the same way as this one. Good luck with your 'keeping the £'.
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
By an astonishing coincidence we have on this forum one of the realm's foremost experts on turnip farming....
Turnip is delicious. Swede is delicious. (This happy coincidence avoids any difficulty about which is which).
Parsnip is the excrement of the devil.
Nonsense. Honey glazed parsnips are awesome.
And so is Parsnips Molly Parkin (various recipes on the 'net) - a superb vegetarian dish in its own right, and also excellent with sausages or pork chops.
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
The UK will never give up Sterling. We like our pound and there will be a referendum if any politician tried to sign us up into the Euro.
But the plausible scenario in which this would arise would be one where full participation in the EU became conditional upon Euro membership. Surely the current warnings of famine, pestilence and generalised death would continue to apply, meaning that (no doubt with a heavy heart) exactly the same establishment cast as today would declare in favour of remaining in and joining the euro.
The last few weeks have shown the Hotel California nature of the club. As long as the frog-boiling is gradual enough, we can never leave, regardless of the destination.
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
The UK will never give up Sterling. We like our pound and there will be a referendum if any politician tried to sign us up into the Euro.
A referendum conducted in the same way as this one. Good luck with your 'keeping the £'.
Perhaps the Treasury could dig out its 2003 report suggesting trade would rise by 50% if we joined the euro, and turn that into another big number per household.
Or would they go for Rose's old estimate that currency unions raise trade 200% (which falls to zero if you tweak his model just slightly)?
That may be true. But that does not mean that those voters will vote Leave on June 23rd. And that is the point which those leaders of the Leave campaign are missing.
While they're busy saying rude things or accusing this or that foreign leader of hypocrisy or anti-Britishness or thinking the EU has ruined the cheese the moon is made of, the voters have probably absorbed two facts: (1) leaving will cost them ca. 4 grand; and (2) no-one important around the world seems to think it a good idea.
Precisely right. It's not the effect of any one intervention, it's the cumulative effect of sowing doubt in voters' minds which will be significant. As I've said many times, the Remain side don't need to win the argument, they only need to sow doubt about the leap in the dark. The Leave side's knee-jerk reaction of trying to trash anyone who warns about the leap in the dark won't help one iota in this, in fact it is likely to be counter-productive.
It makes me feel better though.
It's just so much fun calling Remainers quislings, cowards and traitors.
Yet you want to deny others the fun of calling Leavers fruitcakes and loons. Spoil-sport!
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
The UK will never give up Sterling. We like our pound and there will be a referendum if any politician tried to sign us up into the Euro.
But the plausible scenario in which this would arise would be one where full participation in the EU became conditional upon Euro membership. Surely the current warnings of famine, pestilence and generalised death would continue to apply, meaning that (no doubt with a heavy heart) exactly the same establishment cast as today would declare in favour of remaining in and joining the euro.
The last few weeks have shown the Hotel California nature of the club. As long as the frog-boiling is gradual enough, we can never leave, regardless of the destination.
That said I think I'm coming round to Remain.
If it was a case for Joining the Euro or leaving the EU, I'd leave in a heartbeat.
The SNP are a one trick pony, now with one leg broken, but will hirple along for a time while Sturgeon offers vague promises to the cult and, hopefully, in a few years the carcass will be buried and forgotten.
This is pretty ineffectual stuff. The SNP are about to win all but three or four constituencies.
Perusing the Conservative manifesto I see they are suggesting a surprising radical plan to improve educational standards by simplifying the English language to contain just the words "Ruth Davidson for a Strong Opposition"
twitter.com/leomiklasz/status/722382350085189633
Anyone who doesn't know she's a Tory is living under a rock.
Well, they're removing one big clue to her Toryness.
Mr. G, couldn't they be cut into smaller pieces for the roasting?
Interesting that both you and Mr. Nabavi advocate boiling. Huzzah for the Concord of Turnips!
If you want roasting cut them mix with potatoes, carrots, parsnips and onions. Add garlic and thyme and roast them all together. Goes well with any roast or casserole.
Eurozone integration deepening over the next decade seems all but certain. QMV mass gives them the right to impose what they wish on the rest of the EU. And suppose we get the choice of joining the euro or leaving the EU?
Today, we'd vote to leave on that basis. But years down the line, that may not be the case.
If we were given that choice, I would anticipate that the Great and the Good, and the foreign leaders, would favour our joining the Euro.
If Blair had called one in 2002 we would have got exactly the same shit during a pro-euro referendum campaign as we're getting now, probably with not a handful of Tory turncoats joining in too.
Working against it would have been the strong day-to-day brand and use of the pound, plus the fact it was the status quo.
But just how close would it have been?
I think that Blair might well have pulled it off, at the height of his powers.
The campaign would be do you want The Queen on your money or some Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey?
The campaign would have been along the lines that the sensible moderate people (eg Tony Blair, Paddy Ashdown, Ken Clarke, Charles Kennedy) , big businesses, trade unions, the CBI, the FT, the Economist, foreign leaders, all saw Euro membership as the future, whereas only the stuck in the mud little Englanders wanted to keep Sterling.
I think the pound in people's pocket is something the country would never give up.
On balance, I think agree with Sean.
There was some interesting polling at the time (around 2001-2002) showing people could be persuaded. Also there was no UKIP, we might have had a pro-euro Tory leader, a split party (like now) and then it might have just been the Telegraph and the Mail holding the fort.
I felt in even more of a minority then defending Sterling than I do now defending Leave, although I was at Bristol.
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
The UK will never give up Sterling. We like our pound and there will be a referendum if any politician tried to sign us up into the Euro.
But the plausible scenario in which this would arise would be one where full participation in the EU became conditional upon Euro membership. Surely the current warnings of famine, pestilence and generalised death would continue to apply, meaning that (no doubt with a heavy heart) exactly the same establishment cast as today would declare in favour of remaining in and joining the euro.
The last few weeks have shown the Hotel California nature of the club. As long as the frog-boiling is gradual enough, we can never leave, regardless of the destination.
We could expect posts along the lines 'The only way we can defeat the Euro is by joining up, and defeating it from within'.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
@JananGanesh: "Some of the folks on the other side have been ascribing to the US certain actions we'd take (post-Brexit)...Trade deal won't happen soon."
I agree. I think the attacks on Obama are silly and pointless.
Talking of dubious associations, you don't give the impression of being entirely at home with the Leave camp. Are you sure you want to vote with them? In theory, of course, one should vote on the merits rather than on who happens to agree. But the direct consequence of Leave will immedaitely be a pro-Leave Prime Minister, and it's quite hard to see past Boris in that case. And I may be biased, but I find it very hard to imagine a negotiation between Boris and the EU resulting in a productive outcome.
That is very naughty of you Mr Palmer!
And obviously like any lady I am always open to being charmed into perhaps revising my opinion of a possible suitor.
Seriously, you are quite right that if looked only at the Leave campaigners (the public ones not the nice ones on here) I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.
(Edited: with the possible exception of Mr Gove - though his reference to Albania was daft.)
The whole campaign is unremittingly awful - on both sides. Trite, insulting to the intelligence, devoid of content and, by now, deeply boring.
I think Boris will not be PM or leader: not up to it IMO.
I find this a very difficult decision for reasons which I've set out here before and won't repeat.
I hope we meet at a PB meet. Your family background sounds very interesting.
Mr. G, couldn't they be cut into smaller pieces for the roasting?
Interesting that both you and Mr. Nabavi advocate boiling. Huzzah for the Concord of Turnips!
If you want roasting cut them mix with potatoes, carrots, parsnips and onions. Add garlic and thyme and roast them all together. Goes well with any roast or casserole.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
A threat. Nice way to treat your 'friends'.
Remind me how this Special Relationship works again.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
Obama is debunking leave's case in just one speech. Surely today is a big moment in the campaign
The most pro EU speech I have ever heard David Cameron make. Let there be no doubt he is in this to win this
And he's never been anything but a convicted Europhile.
Correct. And he would have saved himself - and the rest of us - a great deal of trouble if he had confronted his Party over this in 2005 and not waited 11 years and then asked the electorate to do the job for him.
@craigawoodhouse: That noise you was Brexiteers exploding with rage as Obama threatened the UK would be "at the back of the queue" if we vote to leave...
@michaelsavage: Huge intervention from Obama - Britain goes to the back of the queue for a trade deal in event of #Brexit. nuclear.
Irrelevant. There is no 'trade deal' now and we trade very successfully with the US.
After Brexit we can gain even more from transatlantic trade as we can remove the barriers the EU currently places on US imports, leading to a fall in our import prices and improved UK standards of living.
We do not need 'trade deals', we need to be out of the 'trade deal' with the EU that we are currently in and which reduces economic welfare.
Mr. G, couldn't they be cut into smaller pieces for the roasting?
Interesting that both you and Mr. Nabavi advocate boiling. Huzzah for the Concord of Turnips!
If you want roasting cut them mix with potatoes, carrots, parsnips and onions. Add garlic and thyme and roast them all together. Goes well with any roast or casserole.
Will Dave buy me an acre of land ?
Did you get Ed's owl? ....
Will Obama give us a bald eagle? .... although it's not OGH's favourite bird ....
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
Obama is debunking leave's case in just one speech. Surely today is a big moment in the campaign
Obama's issuing threats. Hardly the way to treat your supposed closest ally, in the so called Special Relationship. Proves it's just a pile of crap.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
Obama is debunking leave's case in just one speech. Surely today is a big moment in the campaign
Obama's issuing threats. Hardly the way to treat your supposed closest ally, in the so called Special Relationship.
They are empty threats so I wouldn't get too worked up about it.
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
The UK will never give up Sterling. We like our pound and there will be a referendum if any politician tried to sign us up into the Euro.
A referendum conducted in the same way as this one. Good luck with your 'keeping the £'.
Perhaps the Treasury could dig out its 2003 report suggesting trade would rise by 50% if we joined the euro, and turn that into another big number per household.
Or would they go for Rose's old estimate that currency unions raise trade 200% (which falls to zero if you tweak his model just slightly)?
The 2003 Treasury report about joining the Euro does say trade will increase by up to 50% over 30 years. Also that National Income would rise by between 5% and 9% , similar to the current claim for remaining now.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
A threat. Nice way to treat your 'friends'.
Remind me how this Special Relationship works again.
TTIP is the trade deal presumably that Obama is talking about.
@michaelsavage: Huge intervention from Obama - Britain goes to the back of the queue for a trade deal in event of #Brexit. nuclear.
Of course he'd say that as its in the US's interests to see Britain vote Remain.
If we vote Leave though then the one thing the US does well is look after its own interests and acknowledge realpolitik. Once the facts have changed, the American response would change too.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is either ignorant or delusional.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
Obama is debunking leave's case in just one speech. Surely today is a big moment in the campaign
The SNP are a one trick pony, now with one leg broken, but will hirple along for a time while Sturgeon offers vague promises to the cult and, hopefully, in a few years the carcass will be buried and forgotten.
This is pretty ineffectual stuff. The SNP are about to win all but three or four constituencies.
Perusing the Conservative manifesto I see they are suggesting a surprising radical plan to improve educational standards by simplifying the English language to contain just the words "Ruth Davidson for a Strong Opposition"
twitter.com/leomiklasz/status/722382350085189633
Anyone who doesn't know she's a Tory is living under a rock.
Well, they're removing one big clue to her Toryness.
What I'm wondering is what David Cameron has promised in return. Because Barack Obama has gone a long long way out of his way to give him the maximum possible help.
@michaelsavage: Huge intervention from Obama - Britain goes to the back of the queue for a trade deal in event of #Brexit. nuclear.
Irrelevant. There is no 'trade deal' now and we trade very successfully with the US.
After Brexit we can gain even more from transatlantic trade as we can remove the barriers the EU currently places on US imports, leading to a fall in our import prices and improved UK standards of living.
We do not need 'trade deals', we need to be out of the 'trade deal' with the EU that we are currently in and which reduces economic welfare.
Obama doesn't need these deals
Top 10 US Exports to UK
America's exports to the UK amounted to $56.4 billion or 3.8% of its overall exports.
Obama is getting in too deep - he needs to SHUT UP NOW.
In the year of IndyRef there are two noticeable bumps in the yes vote. The second is when Darling is destroyed by Salmond in the second debate. The first is after Osborne's Sermon on the Pound.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
Obama is debunking leave's case in just one speech. Surely today is a big moment in the campaign
Obama's issuing threats. Hardly the way to treat your supposed closest ally, in the so called Special Relationship. Proves it's just a pile of crap.
Obama is doing the bidding of the British PM, that is exactly what the Special Relationship is all about. Helping your allies out.
Again, if we vote Leave and are led by a Leave PM then the American President would be saying something completely different.
@NicoHines: Obama's Britain "would go to the back of the queue" soundbite must have been written by No. 10? No way he'd say queue instead of 'the line'
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
Obama is debunking leave's case in just one speech. Surely today is a big moment in the campaign
Obama's issuing threats. Hardly the way to treat your supposed closest ally, in the so called Special Relationship.
They are empty threats so I wouldn't get too worked up about it.
Quite so.
Obama: "Just how much do you want me to threaten you?" Cameron: "Full on, please. The full works."
Perhaps he could have illustrated by giving Dave a Chinese burn, or putting him in a headlock and then nobbling his head with his fist.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
Obama is debunking leave's case in just one speech. Surely today is a big moment in the campaign
You say that everyday.
If Cameron was all for Leave then so would you be.
@NicoHines: Obama's Britain "would go to the back of the queue" soundbite must have been written by No. 10? No way he'd say queue instead of 'the line'
Well that's clear from Obama. Do as we say or we will fk you over. Ally my arse. And the British PM is complicit in these threats. Truly truly shameful. I voted for that weasel
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
The UK will never give up Sterling. We like our pound and there will be a referendum if any politician tried to sign us up into the Euro.
A referendum conducted in the same way as this one. Good luck with your 'keeping the £'.
Perhaps the Treasury could dig out its 2003 report suggesting trade would rise by 50% if we joined the euro, and turn that into another big number per household.
Or would they go for Rose's old estimate that currency unions raise trade 200% (which falls to zero if you tweak his model just slightly)?
The 2003 Treasury report about joining the Euro does say trade will increase by up to 50% over 30 years. Also that National Income would rise by between 5% and 9% , similar to the current claim for remaining now.
Yes I know. The recent Treasury estimates were just a more skewed version of that report.
The problem is the models that produce these numbers are unreliable, theoretically questionable and insufficiently comprehensive to properly estimate all the effects of Brexit.
The numbers you get out of them are unstable and can be altered radically by a few tweaks on the assumptions.
And the assumptions used are themselves very dubious.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
@NicoHines: Obama's Britain "would go to the back of the queue" soundbite must have been written by No. 10? No way he'd say queue instead of 'the line'
That's actually a very good point.
Hmm. I think his speech writer can translate american to english.
@michaelsavage: Huge intervention from Obama - Britain goes to the back of the queue for a trade deal in event of #Brexit. nuclear.
Perceptions are what matter. Is it a threat or a home truth?
In reality, the queue of trade policy importance to the US roughly speaking is EU, China, Mexico, Canada, South America and the rest, including Britain, Japan, South Korea and India. It will be some time before the limited amount of trade officials and official mindshare gets on to Britain.
@michaelsavage: Huge intervention from Obama - Britain goes to the back of the queue for a trade deal in event of #Brexit. nuclear.
Irrelevant. There is no 'trade deal' now and we trade very successfully with the US.
After Brexit we can gain even more from transatlantic trade as we can remove the barriers the EU currently places on US imports, leading to a fall in our import prices and improved UK standards of living.
We do not need 'trade deals', we need to be out of the 'trade deal' with the EU that we are currently in and which reduces economic welfare.
Obama doesn't need these deals
Top 10 US Exports to UK
America's exports to the UK amounted to $56.4 billion or 3.8% of its overall exports.
@jonwalker121: Obama on a UK/US trade deal if we leave the EU "It's not going to happen any time soon" "Uk is going to be in the back of the queue" #brexit
looks like despite all of Dave's talk about his special relationship it isn't that actually special
#poodle
You think the American President saying and doing EXACTLY what the British Prime Minister wants him to say and do shows the British Prime Minister lacks a special relationship with the American President?
Run that logic by me again one more time?
It may just show the opposite, that the UK PM does what he is told, there's just something fundamentally wrong about a UK PM standing back while a foreign leader makes threats.
This is the second time Cameron has done it and it makes him look weak.
Comments
I imagine them being comparable to parsnips, which in turn makes me wonder how they are when roasted.
Mr. Eagles, not today. Down the line? Perhaps. We know an awful lot of the Establishment will line up to throw away our own monetary policy for a special seat in the euroclub.
Incidentally, it is one of the great curiosities of life that parsnips are almost unknown to the French.
The Tories best chance is that the campaign is so lackadaisical on both sides that few people actually vote, and that there's unexpected enthusiasm for doing so in the leafy places.
Khan won't be good, but I can't see him dropping his total ineffectualism, and as such perhaps he'll do little bad.
I think they're both poor candidates. I'd tick the 'someone else' box if there was one - apart of course that is from the other actual candidates. I know very little about them generally, but the little I do know encourages me to avoid them like the plague. (sorry plague)
Even if there were a vote, a few years down the line with both major parties and those dreadfully important international organisations and leaders supporting a Yes vote, it's a credible possibility.
I hope it never happens, but just assuming something won't is complacent.
Mr. Nabavi, I very rarely boil vegetables, and I don't think I've ever glazed any.
Roast parsnips are perhaps my favourite food. The French ignorance of their excellence is deeply suspicious.
Edited extra bit: and thanks for the answer
https://twitter.com/AlistairBurtMP/status/723534078306320384
.... much like Sussex, where you should know what northerners call turnips you call swede
Parsnip is the excrement of the devil.
The last few weeks have shown the Hotel California nature of the club. As long as the frog-boiling is gradual enough, we can never leave, regardless of the destination.
That said I think I'm coming round to Remain.
Should the US only be permitted to vote Democrat since it seems most of its allies dislike the Republicans?
There's not going to be much left of the Tory Party by June. What a legacy for Cameron.
Or would they go for Rose's old estimate that currency unions raise trade 200% (which falls to zero if you tweak his model just slightly)?
Interesting that both you and Mr. Nabavi advocate boiling. Huzzah for the Concord of Turnips!
But in the depth of winter I just love mashed swede with stacks of butter, cream and black pepper. Or mashed up with carrot and parsnip.
Serve with rich thick gravy and beef or lamb.
https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/723543344459161601
There was some interesting polling at the time (around 2001-2002) showing people could be persuaded. Also there was no UKIP, we might have had a pro-euro Tory leader, a split party (like now) and then it might have just been the Telegraph and the Mail holding the fort.
I felt in even more of a minority then defending Sterling than I do now defending Leave, although I was at Bristol.
And obviously like any lady I am always open to being charmed into perhaps revising my opinion of a possible suitor.
Seriously, you are quite right that if looked only at the Leave campaigners (the public ones not the nice ones on here) I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.
(Edited: with the possible exception of Mr Gove - though his reference to Albania was daft.)
The whole campaign is unremittingly awful - on both sides. Trite, insulting to the intelligence, devoid of content and, by now, deeply boring.
I think Boris will not be PM or leader: not up to it IMO.
I find this a very difficult decision for reasons which I've set out here before and won't repeat.
I hope we meet at a PB meet. Your family background sounds very interesting.
Will be funny when Boris becomes leader and then watching Scott's post,will be a laugh.
Remind me how this Special Relationship works again.
Mr. Brooke, hmm, normally I just use salt and pepper. I may try garlic and thyme if I ever get around to it again (it's been a while).
Mr. Nabavi, I'll check the recipe.
As anyone well tell you, I prefer head, ahem.
After Brexit we can gain even more from transatlantic trade as we can remove the barriers the EU currently places on US imports, leading to a fall in our import prices and improved UK standards of living.
We do not need 'trade deals', we need to be out of the 'trade deal' with the EU that we are currently in and which reduces economic welfare.
Will Obama give us a bald eagle? .... although it's not OGH's favourite bird ....
#poodle
See page 222 of the 2003 report at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/europe/03/euro/pdf/final_assessment/03_1100.pdf
If we vote Leave though then the one thing the US does well is look after its own interests and acknowledge realpolitik. Once the facts have changed, the American response would change too.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is either ignorant or delusional.
Top 10 US Exports to UK
America's exports to the UK amounted to
$56.4 billion or 3.8% of its overall exports.
1. Aircraft, spacecraft: $9.7 billion
2. Machinery: $6.1 billion
3. Gems, precious metals: $5.7 billion
4. Electronic equipment: $3.8 billion
5. Pharmaceuticals: $3.7 billion
6. Vehicles: $3.1 billion
7. Medical, technical equipment: $2.8 billion
8. Collector items, art, antiques: $2.8 billion
9. Oil: $2.3 billion
10. Organic chemicals: $1.4 billion
Again, if we vote Leave and are led by a Leave PM then the American President would be saying something completely different.
@NicoHines: Obama's Britain "would go to the back of the queue" soundbite must have been written by No. 10? No way he'd say queue instead of 'the line'
Obama: "Just how much do you want me to threaten you?"
Cameron: "Full on, please. The full works."
Perhaps he could have illustrated by giving Dave a Chinese burn, or putting him in a headlock and then nobbling his head with his fist.
If Cameron was all for Leave then so would you be.
The problem is the models that produce these numbers are unreliable, theoretically questionable and insufficiently comprehensive to properly estimate all the effects of Brexit.
The numbers you get out of them are unstable and can be altered radically by a few tweaks on the assumptions.
And the assumptions used are themselves very dubious.
Oh, and NHS privatisation is off the table.
Run that logic by me again one more time?
1. He hates Britain
2. He would say that wouldn't he
3. He's threatening us
4. Shut up
and my two favourites:
5. We don't need no stinking trade deals after all
6. Obama is a Cameron stooge
In reality, the queue of trade policy importance to the US roughly speaking is EU, China, Mexico, Canada, South America and the rest, including Britain, Japan, South Korea and India. It will be some time before the limited amount of trade officials and official mindshare gets on to Britain.
This is the second time Cameron has done it and it makes him look weak.