Why did Labour not elect David Miliband? His anti-Brexit rhetoric is virtually Churchillian:
‘No nation in human peacetime history, never mind Britain, has voluntarily given up as much political power as we are being invited to throw away on 23 June. For what? A cold, hard lesson in the demon of hubris, born of delusion that the world owes us a break.’
He was splendid on the Today programme this morning.
What on earth was Labour thinking?
(Well, I suppose the Labour Party was thinking "let's elect this electable alternative to Cameron", the Union paymasters were thinking "Let's vote in his more malleable leftie brother....")
Milliband major's problem is that he appears to perform only when the pressure is off. Still better than Milliband minor, of course.
When David Miliband decided to sod off out the limelight, he didn't choose to go to Europe. He went to the US. Tells you all you need to know about his belief in the EU.
I'd have more interest in what he has to say if it was about their November elections, frankly.
Mr. Pulpstar, that might upset things in Lebanon. My limited understanding is that there's been an unstable but roughly balanced political situation there for years, but if Hezbollah grows fat on ISIS' demise, that could upset the apple cart.
Hezbollah is far stronger than the Lebanese army I think.
Hiz have been seriously attritted in Syria. They don't want to be taking the IDF on anytime soon, even if Khameni tells them to.
I wonder if Dave's Leaflets will affect the public mood in any significant way whatsoever?
It is quite possible they won't shift a single voter. Way to spend £9m of our money. Good job.
The leaflets have been dropping on English (only) doormats over the last few days just at the time the IMF's report is headlining the broadcast media. What is that about David Cameron being a lucky general
The ordinary bloke could not care less about the IMF, they will be more bothered that Cameron has spent £9m of their hard earned taxes on EU propaganda.
Mr. Pubgoer, I remain (ahem) dubious of a Leave victory, much as I would prefer one.
We'll see if things change. Still over two months to go.
MD, My head still thinks that remain will stagger across the finishing line first.
Most likely. But it is possible that England will have voted to leave. And by Cameron spending £9 million of taxpayers money to help buy the result, that result will have a much reduced legitimacy. Muppet.
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
I'm glad somebody else has said that. Everything I've seen suggests that this referendum is having a catastrophic effect in business confidence, blithe assurances aside. It's a truism that business does not like uncertainty but this is magnified here by having no knowledge of what "out" means in practice.
what a load of rubbish
A modest effect on business confidence? Very likely. Catastrophic? Plainly not.
As a corporate lawyer dealing with externally facing businesses (most of whom are major employers in the UK) in a variety of sectors all I can tell you is that I've seen that there's been a real change in the last 3 months. The lack of certainty about where next is a very real concern. Still, dismissing it as a load of rubbish should deal with it effectively.
I think the evidence, as supplied by Mr 1000 a few post below, runs against your reported experience.
Mr. Pubgoer, I still think Remain will win comfortably. It's seen by many as status quo versus change, and fear of the unknown is a powerful motivator.
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
I'm glad somebody else has said that. Everything I've seen suggests that this referendum is having a catastrophic effect in business confidence, blithe assurances aside. It's a truism that business does not like uncertainty but this is magnified here by having no knowledge of what "out" means in practice.
what a load of rubbish
A modest effect on business confidence? Very likely. Catastrophic? Plainly not.
As a corporate lawyer dealing with externally facing businesses (most of whom are major employers in the UK) in a variety of sectors all I can tell you is that I've seen that there's been a real change in the last 3 months. The lack of certainty about where next is a very real concern. Still, dismissing it as a load of rubbish should deal with it effectively.
It's easy to dismiss it as rubbish because there are reliable and well-established surveys of business confidence. Which contradict your anecdotes completely.
This just out, I am sure it will have those working class voters queuing up for Remain.
The European Commission has confirmed a legal loophole which allows employers and recruiters to demand workers for UK vacancies speak Eastern European languages as a way to avoid hiring workers from the UK.
The response came in a reply to UKIP employment spokeswoman Jane Collins MEP who has raised concerns about British workers being barred from jobs in the UK by agencies wanting Polish or Romanian speaking candidates.
What a load of irresponsible drivel. No end of companies offer positions only to foreign-language speakers.
I am sure they do. Look forward to Remain people explaining it on the doorstep to the working class.
Incidentally pretty much only the British would be fool enough to allow that, I can see the French for example going for it in a big way.
Twaddle. Plenty of German companies won't even hire a native if they don't speak English. As for your remark about the 'working class', you clearly regard them as useful dupes, ripe for manipulation by Kipper exaggerations and lies!
You know modern history isn't my forte, but that's a debatable statement.
Spanish Armada - just us (without Scotland, of course) Napoleon - I believe for a time we were the only ones fighting him. If not, we certainly took the leading role in the west. The Kaiser - multi-national throughout. Hitler - for a time, we were his only opposition in Europe. Had we capitulated, the world would be very different Communism - multi-national throughout, US leading. [Also, a cold rather than a hot war, so qualitatively different to the others].
But I'd argue the multi-national coalition aspect favours leaving. We didn't need a superstate in Europe to co-operate with others. Indeed, it was against European superstates that most of those wars were fought.
The Netherlanders helped us defeat the Armada
Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo as part of a multi national coalition (Us, The Netherlanders, Hanover, Nassau, Brunswick, and Prussia)
Hitler it was us, The French, and most of the invaded countries who took him on, but you're forgetting the contribution of the lend lease plan America gave us whilst they were neutral, and the contribution of the British Empire Forces
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
We've got one shot. This is that shot.
Hm. I wouldn't call what Cameron secured a "shot".
A similar word, one letter different....
If Remain squeaks home by a hopefully very small margin, we'll have a Scotland situation. More will need to be offered. And as the EU slowly decays and disregards its public, more scope will exist for real change and reform.
Let's stay at the party until then, influencing what we have to stomach in the meantime, and then be a driving force in sorting out the real change when the opportunity comes.
That's a far better prospectus than voting Leave and then ending up probably joining EFTA instead and having exactly what we have got now, but with a slightly smaller admission fee and with zero influence as opposed to minimal influence.
To me that would be ideal with the UK returning to the table in the EU with Michael Gove leading an uncompromising charge for change
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
I'm glad somebody else has said that. Everything I've seen suggests that this referendum is having a catastrophic effect in business confidence, blithe assurances aside. It's a truism that business does not like uncertainty but this is magnified here by having no knowledge of what "out" means in practice.
what a load of rubbish
A modest effect on business confidence? Very likely. Catastrophic? Plainly not.
As a corporate lawyer dealing with externally facing businesses (most of whom are major employers in the UK) in a variety of sectors all I can tell you is that I've seen that there's been a real change in the last 3 months. The lack of certainty about where next is a very real concern. Still, dismissing it as a load of rubbish should deal with it effectively.
My heart bleeds for you. The CORPORATE LAWYERS ARE SUFFERING.
You've convinced me now. REMAIN IT IS.
He's right.
And I wouldn't say corporate lawyers are "suffering", we're plenty busy enough, but it's obvious from our interactions with clients and the market generally that UK PLC is putting transactions on hold because of the uncertainty. It was evident in the run up to GE2015, to a lesser extent though, and it's evident again now. I imagine it will lift post 23 June, whatever the outcome perversely, but it is there and it is right to report it without getting abuse for it...
I wonder if Dave's Leaflets will affect the public mood in any significant way whatsoever?
It is quite possible they won't shift a single voter. Way to spend £9m of our money. Good job.
The leaflets have been dropping on English (only) doormats over the last few days just at the time the IMF's report is headlining the broadcast media. What is that about David Cameron being a lucky general
The ordinary bloke could not care less about the IMF, they will be more bothered that Cameron has spent £9m of their hard earned taxes on EU propaganda.
The undecided may have a different view after today's broadcast onslaught
Mr. Eagles, proof that multi-national co-operation doesn't need the EU, and that our finest hours have been fighting against the establishment of a European superstate
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
We've got one shot. This is that shot.
Hm. I wouldn't call what Cameron secured a "shot".
A similar word, one letter different....
If Remain squeaks home by a hopefully very small margin, we'll have a Scotland situation. More will need to be offered. And as the EU slowly decays and disregards its public, more scope will exist for real change and reform.
Let's stay at the party until then, influencing what we have to stomach in the meantime, and then be a driving force in sorting out the real change when the opportunity comes.
That's a far better prospectus than voting Leave and then ending up probably joining EFTA instead and having exactly what we have got now, but with a slightly smaller admission fee and with zero influence as opposed to minimal influence.
So you'd spend umpty-billions in extra contributions to the EU waiting for some indeterminate point in the future when the EU gets so broken it just HAS to agree to fix itself? And you think we will have some louder voice in that fixing process than currently because we have been standing on the sidelines all the time saying "told yer so..."?
I wonder if Dave's Leaflets will affect the public mood in any significant way whatsoever?
It is quite possible they won't shift a single voter. Way to spend £9m of our money. Good job.
The leaflets have been dropping on English (only) doormats over the last few days just at the time the IMF's report is headlining the broadcast media. What is that about David Cameron being a lucky general
The ordinary bloke could not care less about the IMF, they will be more bothered that Cameron has spent £9m of their hard earned taxes on EU propaganda.
The undecided may have a different view after today's broadcast onslaught
I don't know why anyone thinks that warnings from the IMF will prove any more decisive than warnings from any other organisation.
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
I'm glad somebody else has said that. Everything I've seen suggests that this referendum is having a catastrophic effect in business confidence, blithe assurances aside. It's a truism that business does not like uncertainty but this is magnified here by having no knowledge of what "out" means in practice.
what a load of rubbish
A modest effect on business confidence? Very likely. Catastrophic? Plainly not.
As a corporate lawyer dealing with externally facing businesses (most of whom are major employers in the UK) in a variety of sectors all I can tell you is that I've seen that there's been a real change in the last 3 months. The lack of certainty about where next is a very real concern. Still, dismissing it as a load of rubbish should deal with it effectively.
My heart bleeds for you. The CORPORATE LAWYERS ARE SUFFERING.
You've convinced me now. REMAIN IT IS.
Like a corporate lawyer has any idea what the ordinary family deal with every day. If he deals with small businesses I might have more sympathy as he would know how onerous the EU regulations are.
I don't get Labour on the whole issue. It is about major corporations ruling the world, crushing entrepreneurial spirit with expensive regulation only they can afford, backed by unelected bureaucrats running an undemocratic monolith.
Surely this isn't the Labour party my Dad was a member of, when are they ever going to consider the working class in this country?
Looking at certainty to vote by age in table 10, and then looking at how people will vote by age in table 11, I can reach no other conclusion than that Leave is going to win.
I somehow doubt that the great unwashed will be moved by the IMF's views on the impact of a Brexit on investors.
It is the great unwashed that I believe will decide this. The Mrs Duffy's who worry about the effects on their lives from "flocking immigrants". My guesstimate spreadsheet forecasts that even if Labour GE 2015 voters go 2:1 for REMAIN, LEAVE can still narrowly win.
Only flaw with that cunning plan is that by June someone will have pointed out to the Mrs Duffy's of this world that what we are going to do after we Brexit will have no effect whatsoever on immigration.
Probably, but she wont believe them because that nice Mr Farage is telling her otherwise
You mean like they listened to him and swept UKIP to the win they were expecting in Oldham West
Remind me of the last Euro Election result again ?
Ancient history mate. There has been a GE since where, if my memory serves me correctly, UKIP managed to elect one single solitary MP. Magnificent.
Mr. Eagles, proof that multi-national co-operation doesn't need the EU, and that our finest hours have been fighting against the establishment of a European superstate
I wonder if Dave's Leaflets will affect the public mood in any significant way whatsoever?
It is quite possible they won't shift a single voter. Way to spend £9m of our money. Good job.
The leaflets have been dropping on English (only) doormats over the last few days just at the time the IMF's report is headlining the broadcast media. What is that about David Cameron being a lucky general
I wonder if Dave's Leaflets will affect the public mood in any significant way whatsoever?
It is quite possible they won't shift a single voter. Way to spend £9m of our money. Good job.
The leaflets have been dropping on English (only) doormats over the last few days just at the time the IMF's report is headlining the broadcast media. What is that about David Cameron being a lucky general
Luck? Don't think so. The Comms grid is not coincidental.
I do feel a shift in the atmosphere towards LEAVE though. REMAIN feels like a campaign which is becalmed and a little bemused why it is not 15% ahead. And LEAVE similarly deighted and surprised it isnt. LEAVE has the mojo right now.
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
I'm glad somebody else has said that. Everything I've seen suggests that this referendum is having a catastrophic effect in business confidence, blithe assurances aside. It's a truism that business does not like uncertainty but this is magnified here by having no knowledge of what "out" means in practice.
what a load of rubbish
A modest effect on business confidence? Very likely. Catastrophic? Plainly not.
As a corporate lawyer dealing with externally facing businesses (most of whom are major employers in the UK) in a variety of sectors all I can tell you is that I've seen that there's been a real change in the last 3 months. The lack of certainty about where next is a very real concern. Still, dismissing it as a load of rubbish should deal with it effectively.
My heart bleeds for you. The CORPORATE LAWYERS ARE SUFFERING.
You've convinced me now. REMAIN IT IS.
He's right.
And I wouldn't say corporate lawyers are "suffering", we're plenty busy enough, but it's obvious from our interactions with clients and the market generally that UK PLC is putting transactions on hold because of the uncertainty. It was evident in the run up to GE2015, to a lesser extent though, and it's evident again now. I imagine it will lift post 23 June, whatever the outcome perversely, but it is there and it is right to report it without getting abuse for it...
Again - where's the evidence? Business investment was very strong in the first quarter of 2015, and solid enough in Q2 as well. The PMI surveys were also buoyant in the months leading up to the GE in 2015 - especially for services.
If business was worried about the election, they had a funny way of showing it.
I somehow doubt that the great unwashed will be moved by the IMF's views on the impact of a Brexit on investors.
It is the great unwashed that I believe will decide this. The Mrs Duffy's who worry about the effects on their lives from "flocking immigrants". My guesstimate spreadsheet forecasts that even if Labour GE 2015 voters go 2:1 for REMAIN, LEAVE can still narrowly win.
Only flaw with that cunning plan is that by June someone will have pointed out to the Mrs Duffy's of this world that what we are going to do after we Brexit will have no effect whatsoever on immigration.
Probably, but she wont believe them because that nice Mr Farage is telling her otherwise
You mean like they listened to him and swept UKIP to the win they were expecting in Oldham West
Remind me of the last Euro Election result again ?
Ancient history mate. There has been a GE since where, if my memory serves me correctly, UKIP managed to elect one single solitary MP. Magnificent.
Because their vote was inefficient in constituencies.... we don't have any of those in the next vote.
You do have to admire the leave campaigners positive attitude and almost complete dismissal of today's IMF report but the one thing it seems to have achieved is to fire the starting pistol on the debate proper
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
We've got one shot. This is that shot.
Hm. I wouldn't call what Cameron secured a "shot".
A similar word, one letter different....
If Remain squeaks home by a hopefully very small margin, we'll have a Scotland situation. More will need to be offered. And as the EU slowly decays and disregards its public, more scope will exist for real change and reform.
Let's stay at the party until then, influencing what we have to stomach in the meantime, and then be a driving force in sorting out the real change when the opportunity comes.
That's a far better prospectus than voting Leave and then ending up probably joining EFTA instead and having exactly what we have got now, but with a slightly smaller admission fee and with zero influence as opposed to minimal influence.
Shame you feel the need to repeat the same old Europhile myths Bob.
I somehow doubt that the great unwashed will be moved by the IMF's views on the impact of a Brexit on investors.
It is the great unwashed that I believe will decide this. The Mrs Duffy's who worry about the effects on their lives from "flocking immigrants". My guesstimate spreadsheet forecasts that even if Labour GE 2015 voters go 2:1 for REMAIN, LEAVE can still narrowly win.
Only flaw with that cunning plan is that by June someone will have pointed out to the Mrs Duffy's of this world that what we are going to do after we Brexit will have no effect whatsoever on immigration.
Probably, but she wont believe them because that nice Mr Farage is telling her otherwise
You mean like they listened to him and swept UKIP to the win they were expecting in Oldham West
Remind me of the last Euro Election result again ?
Ancient history mate. There has been a GE since where, if my memory serves me correctly, UKIP managed to elect one single solitary MP. Magnificent.
Or put another way, UKIP managed to lose half their MP's....
What does the IMF know about growth? Didn't Lagarde have to make a groveling apology to Osborne for getting it spectacularly wrong on their dire predictions about UK growth due to spending cuts?
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
I'm glad somebody else has said that. Everything I've seen suggests that this referendum is having a catastrophic effect in business confidence, blithe assurances aside. It's a truism that business does not like uncertainty but this is magnified here by having no knowledge of what "out" means in practice.
what a load of rubbish
Indeed. We defeated the Spanish Armada, Napoleon, the Kaiser, Hitler, and communism. I think the UK can cope with some economic dislocation when it exits a trading bloc.
Trading bloc? TRADING BLOC??
Are you kidding me?!
It is a not-so-secret government of the UK in waiting, poised to expand its influence (if that be possible) over every corner of our lives.
The masterminds of the "Remain" campaign have clearly decided that a re-run of last year's Tory campaign will do the job for them. But there's two problems with it:
1- The obvious point, the Tory campaign got "only" 37% of the vote - enough to win an election, not enough to win a two-horse referendum
2- I would argue the only reason the Tories' "Project Fear" worked last year is because they could point to (what they claimed were) VIVID examples of the supposed "disaster" of voting Labour: the "no money left" letter, and the image of Nicola Sturgeon leading an army of Scots just over the hill. But for the EU, the Remain campaign's predictions of what will happen if we leave are all theoretical -- because no country has ever left the EU, they can't PROVE it, or be perceived to have proven it in the eyes of voters. Bottom line is it's hard to get Joe Public to believe politicians' prophecies of doom unless you can point to (perceived) real examples.
Mr. Eagles, hmm. Sounds like an abused spouse waiting for the 'right moment' to leave their oppressor, or a procrastinator waiting for the right time to get something done. The right time is as soon as possible.
Stop faffing, bite the bullet, and get on with it.
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
I'm glad somebody else has said that. Everything I've seen suggests that this referendum is having a catastrophic effect in business confidence, blithe assurances aside. It's a truism that business does not like uncertainty but this is magnified here by having no knowledge of what "out" means in practice.
what a load of rubbish
A modest effect on business confidence? Very likely. Catastrophic? Plainly not.
As a corporate lawyer dealing with externally facing businesses (most of whom are major employers in the UK) in a variety of sectors all I can tell you is that I've seen that there's been a real change in the last 3 months. The lack of certainty about where next is a very real concern. Still, dismissing it as a load of rubbish should deal with it effectively.
Are you much involved in companies' investment decisions?
Corporate law covers a very wide variety of fields eg commercial property, compliance, M & A, commercial litigation, Intellectual Property, contracts.
I'd be wary about extrapolating one person's, or one firm's, experience across an entire economy.
The masterminds of the "Remain" campaign have clearly decided that a re-run of last year's Tory campaign will do the job for them. But there's two problems with it:
1- The obvious point, the Tory campaign got "only" 37% of the vote - enough to win an election, not enough to win a two-horse referendum
2- I would argue the only reason the Tories' "Project Fear" worked last year is because they could point to (what they claimed were) VIVID examples of the supposed "disaster" of voting Labour: the "no money left" letter, and the image of Nicola Sturgeon leading an army of Scots just over the hill. But for the EU, the Remain campaign's predictions of what will happen if we leave are all theoretical -- because no country has ever left the EU, they can't PROVE it, or be perceived to have proven it in the eyes of voters. Bottom line is it's hard to get Joe Public to believe politicians' prophecies of doom unless you can point to (perceived) real examples.
I wonder if every election campaign from now until the end of time is going to be described as project fear.
Mr. Eagles, the problem isn't that we're buggering up the EU, it's that the EU is buggering up the EU.
You've posted that you think we'll leave in 10-15 years or so after some more woe. So why not just save a decade of woe and leave now?
So we can plan for a more organised withdrawal from the EU.
Not a chance. That's not how UK politics works. Everyone will go back to having their short termist head in the sand until some issue comes up in the EU, probably the Eurozone voting in something we cant live with, there will be lots of hand waving and denial until the vote is actually passed and then there will be exactly the same panic as now.
You do have to admire the leave campaigners positive attitude and almost complete dismissal of today's IMF report but the one thing it seems to have achieved is to fire the starting pistol on the debate proper
The one thing the Leave campaign has in abundance is a positive attitude about life in Britain outside the UK. It is remarkably at odds with the attitude of the Remainders about life in a Britain staying in the EU. Uncertain, almost apologetic that yes, we will have to keep fighting battles with Brussels, but you know, it's what we have to do, because the uncertainty of Brexit yada yada yada.....
I think the downbeat Remainders and the upbeat Brexiteers are why the polls are a dead heat. Hard to see how the Remainders find a positive voice in the coming weeks.
It was hardly abuse, not by pb standards (or mine)
Come on SeanT, come clean, you are behind all the sock puppets handing out the faux "abuse" the Guardian are complaining about in their comments sections ;-)
"your writing sucks" says anon891..ABUSEEEEEEEE...SAFE SPACE SAFE SPACE...
Mr. Eagles, proof that multi-national co-operation doesn't need the EU, and that our finest hours have been fighting against the establishment of a European superstate
Is the referendum being counted overnight? Or will it be like AV which got counted on Friday.
Overnight.
Is the only election to be scheduled that day (apart from a probable Tooting by election)
The AV referendum was conducted on the same day as the Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland devolved elections, as well as the local council elections across the UK.
An Island Apart - As the United Kingdom gears up to decide its future in the June referendum, Nick Robinson explores the troubled history of the UK's relationship with Europe. The first programme examines why British governments initially shunned the new Common Market then begged to join it. It also explores the decisive part played by three British prime ministers, Winston Churchill, Harold Macmillan and Edward Heath
You do have to admire the leave campaigners positive attitude and almost complete dismissal of today's IMF report but the one thing it seems to have achieved is to fire the starting pistol on the debate proper
The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, First Lord of the Treasury said pretty much the same a couple of weeks ago, and some other stuff about refugee camps in Kent, and yet Leave have the lead, what makes you think that the man in the street takes some French toff from an international finance organisation connected in the public mind with Greek bankruptcy and if they are old enough, Denis Healey more seriously than their own PM and Finance Minister. I know you want us to be impressed but is sounds more like whistling to keep up your spirits.
We'll wait confirmation, but it wouldn't be a surprise. Remain has one figurehead delivering their message - David Cameron. And he has just had a mare of a week on trust...
Is the referendum being counted overnight? Or will it be like AV which got counted on Friday.
Overnight.
Is the only election to be scheduled that day (apart from a probable Tooting by election)
The AV referendum was conducted on the same day as the Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland devolved elections, as well as the local council elections across the UK.
It could be the most unremarked Tory gain in years...............
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
I'mice.
what a load of rubbish
A modest effect on business confidence? Very likely. Catastrophic? Plainly not.
As a ch it effectively.
My heart bleeds for you. The CORPORATE LAWYERS ARE SUFFERING.
You've convinced me now. REMAIN IT IS.
He's right.
And I wouldn't say corporate lawyers are "suffering", we're plenty busy enough, but it's obvious from our interactions with clients and the market generally that UK PLC is putting transactions on hold because of the uncertainty. It was evident in the run up to GE2015, to a lesser extent though, and it's evident again now. I imagine it will lift post 23 June, whatever the outcome perversely, but it is there and it is right to report it without getting abuse for it...
It was hardly abuse, not by pb standards (or mine)
There is actually a serious point here. The people who are most loudly warning about BREXIT all come from the perceived elite, City bankers, big business, MPs, the IMF, pompous rich Guardian journalists, London property owners, David Cameron, corporate lawyers.
It is quite possible that lectures from these people, who are all clearly doing so well from the status quo - membership of the EU - have the opposite effect to that intended. It makes the majority of have-nots think f*ck you, you rich bastard.
REMAIN badly need some ordinary working class voices. I hear none.
FFS, what I said what's it's the uncertainty of what out means which is affecting transactions: if you know it will be a or b you can price and structure accordingly. Here it's a or b/c/d/e etc. You only have you look at the range of opinions here on what the latter will be to see why there's that uncertainty. And it's not as if it will be resolved quickly.
I'm not and my colleagues are not expecting sympathy, just making an observation.
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
I'mice.
what a load of rubbish
A modest effect on business confidence? Very likely. Catastrophic? Plainly not.
As a ch it effectively.
My heart bleeds for you. The CORPORATE LAWYERS ARE SUFFERING.
You've convinced me now. REMAIN IT IS.
He's right.
And I wouldn't say corporate lawyers are "suffering", we're plenty busy enough, but it's obvious from our interactions with clients and the market generally that UK PLC is putting transactions on hold because of the uncertainty. It was evident in the run up to GE2015, to a lesser extent though, and it's evident again now. I imagine it will lift post 23 June, whatever the outcome perversely, but it is there and it is right to report it without getting abuse for it...
It was hardly abuse, not by pb standards (or mine)
There is actually a serious point here. The people who are most loudly warning about BREXIT all come from the perceived elite, City bankers, big business, MPs, the IMF, pompous rich Guardian journalists, London property owners, David Cameron, corporate lawyers.
It is quite possible that lectures from these people, who are all clearly doing so well from the status quo - membership of the EU - have the opposite effect to that intended. It makes the majority of have-nots think f*ck you, you rich bastard.
REMAIN badly need some ordinary working class voices. I hear none.
Is the referendum being counted overnight? Or will it be like AV which got counted on Friday.
Overnight.
Is the only election to be scheduled that day (apart from a probable Tooting by election)
The AV referendum was conducted on the same day as the Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland devolved elections, as well as the local council elections across the UK.
New YouGov research reveals David Cameron’s approval rating is now at the lowest level since July 2013 and is for the first time lower than Jeremy Corbyn’s. 34% say David Cameron is doing well as Prime Minister and 58% say he is doing badly, meanwhile 30% say Jeremy Corbyn is doing well and 52% say he is doing badly.
That means Cameron has a net rating of -24, while Corbyn’s is -22.
This is not the first time this happened. An Ipsos MORI poll last month found Corbyn ahead of Cameron on satisfaction ratings, for the first time since December. But the YouGov result is better for Corbyn. Ipsos MORI satisfaction ratings are based on a question asking whether people are “satisfied or dissatisfied” with the way X is doing his or her job. Tories who don’t rate Corbyn might well say they are satisfied with his performance because that suits their interests. YouGov ask whether X is doing well or badly in his or her job.
We'll wait confirmation, but it wouldn't be a surprise. Remain has one figurehead delivering their message - David Cameron. And he has just had a mare of a week on trust...
Is the referendum being counted overnight? Or will it be like AV which got counted on Friday.
Overnight.
Is the only election to be scheduled that day (apart from a probable Tooting by election)
The AV referendum was conducted on the same day as the Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland devolved elections, as well as the local council elections across the UK.
He's right though. Uncertainty over the EU vote IS affecting business confidence and work levels. We can see it first hand in our business.
The sooner we get this out of the way and a Remain vote secured, the better.
Then we can have a proper attempt at renegotiating a few years hence when a ballsier PM comes along...
I'mice.
what a load of rubbish
A modest effect on business confidence? Very likely. Catastrophic? Plainly not.
As a ch it effectively.
My heart bleeds for you. The CORPORATE LAWYERS ARE SUFFERING.
You've convinced me now. REMAIN IT IS.
He's right.
And I wouldn't say corporate lawyers are "suffering", we're plenty busy enough, but it's obvious from our interactions with clients and the market generally that UK PLC is putting transactions on hold because of the uncertainty. It was evident in the run up to GE2015, to a lesser extent though, and it's evident again now. I imagine it will lift post 23 June, whatever the outcome perversely, but it is there and it is right to report it without getting abuse for it...
It was hardly abuse, not by pb standards (or mine)
There is actually a serious point here. The people who are most loudly warning about BREXIT all come from the perceived elite, City bankers, big business, MPs, the IMF, pompous rich Guardian journalists, London property owners, David Cameron, corporate lawyers.
It is quite possible that lectures from these people, who are all clearly doing so well from the status quo - membership of the EU - have the opposite effect to that intended. It makes the majority of have-nots think f*ck you, you rich bastard.
REMAIN badly need some ordinary working class voices. I hear none.
There is actually a serious point here. The people who are most loudly warning about BREXIT all come from the perceived elite, City bankers, big business, MPs, the IMF, pompous rich Guardian journalists, London property owners, David Cameron, corporate lawyers.
Its the same here for the most part.
Look at all the noisy IN people, they are from either the metro elite, the lawyers and city types or they are party hacks, and in some cases both. The OUT people are mostly businessmen and mostly active internationalists outside the EU, rather than lefties that try and handwave away most of the world outside the EU because it's nasty
Is the referendum being counted overnight? Or will it be like AV which got counted on Friday.
Overnight.
Is the only election to be scheduled that day (apart from a probable Tooting by election)
The AV referendum was conducted on the same day as the Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland devolved elections, as well as the local council elections across the UK.
Thank you.
We might have an idea of the result by 1-2am
I guess the Finborough Arms won't be throwing an all nighter.
You do have to admire the leave campaigners positive attitude and almost complete dismissal of today's IMF report but the one thing it seems to have achieved is to fire the starting pistol on the debate proper
The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, First Lord of the Treasury said pretty much the same a couple of weeks ago, and some other stuff about refugee camps in Kent, and yet Leave have the lead, what makes you think that the man in the street takes some French toff from an international finance organisation connected in the public mind with Greek bankruptcy and if they are old enough, Denis Healey more seriously than their own PM and Finance Minister. I know you want us to be impressed but is sounds more like whistling to keep up your spirits.
It reaks of desperation. The man on the Clapham omnibus will just add the IMF report to the growing list of organisations and big businesses warning that the UK will be destroyed if they dare to leave the EU. If the reports and stories are working why has the momentum been with Leave for several months now...
The base data on the ICM poll is 54/46 Leave on 10/10 certain to vote (62% turnout)
Same with the TNS Definitely To Vote (46%) results from last week: Leave 47 Remain 39.
But what interests me is that in the Welsh yougov poll Leave and Remain are essentially tied.
I would have expected Wales to be 60-40 for Remain in order for it to have a single 1% lead nationally, now I have Lead with a 1% lead if registration and turnout is equal throughout the country.
For what is probably the least complicated Tax return, he certainly seems to struggle with it.
Because the man is an imbecile....
A suspicion does creep across one's mind as to whether he showed the actual return that was filed at all, or if in that panicked morning when they couldn't find it, they cobbled something together from memory, or found a draft copy in the back of a filing cabinet, and as a result missed some stuff off.
Mr. Eagles, proof that multi-national co-operation doesn't need the EU, and that our finest hours have been fighting against the establishment of a European superstate
This is a rather dry and lengthy document (well it was written by some of my most eminent legal brethren) but it is a good and fair summary and very well articulates the problems with voting Leave. As the introduction makes clear, it focuses on what the EU "currently is, not what it should or could be".
It sums up why i've felt the need to nail my colours to the "Reluctant Remainer" mast - we've too much to lose by voting Leave and taking a leap in the dark.
You do have to admire the leave campaigners positive attitude and almost complete dismissal of today's IMF report but the one thing it seems to have achieved is to fire the starting pistol on the debate proper
The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, First Lord of the Treasury said pretty much the same a couple of weeks ago, and some other stuff about refugee camps in Kent, and yet Leave have the lead, what makes you think that the man in the street takes some French toff from an international finance organisation connected in the public mind with Greek bankruptcy and if they are old enough, Denis Healey more seriously than their own PM and Finance Minister. I know you want us to be impressed but is sounds more like whistling to keep up your spirits.
It reaks of desperation. The man on the Clapham omnibus will just add the IMF report to the growing list of organisations and big businesses warning that the UK will be destroyed if they dare to leave the EU. If the reports and stories are working why has the momentum been with Leave for several months now...
Because those people have no credibility.
Everyone knows how dismal and incompetent the IMF is with finances and economic forecasts.
You do have to admire the leave campaigners positive attitude and almost complete dismissal of today's IMF report but the one thing it seems to have achieved is to fire the starting pistol on the debate proper
The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, First Lord of the Treasury said pretty much the same a couple of weeks ago, and some other stuff about refugee camps in Kent, and yet Leave have the lead, what makes you think that the man in the street takes some French toff from an international finance organisation connected in the public mind with Greek bankruptcy and if they are old enough, Denis Healey more seriously than their own PM and Finance Minister. I know you want us to be impressed but is sounds more like whistling to keep up your spirits.
I am sitting on the fence and will not lose sleep whatever the result is. However I do want to see a unifying post referendum cabinet with David Cameron as it's figurehead
You do have to admire the leave campaigners positive attitude and almost complete dismissal of today's IMF report but the one thing it seems to have achieved is to fire the starting pistol on the debate proper
The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, First Lord of the Treasury said pretty much the same a couple of weeks ago, and some other stuff about refugee camps in Kent, and yet Leave have the lead, what makes you think that the man in the street takes some French toff from an international finance organisation connected in the public mind with Greek bankruptcy and if they are old enough, Denis Healey more seriously than their own PM and Finance Minister. I know you want us to be impressed but is sounds more like whistling to keep up your spirits.
It reaks of desperation. The man on the Clapham omnibus will just add the IMF report to the growing list of organisations and big businesses warning that the UK will be destroyed if they dare to leave the EU. If the reports and stories are working why has the momentum been with Leave for several months now...
Because those people have no credibility.
Everyone knows how dismal and incompetent the IMF is with finances and economic forecasts.
For what is probably the least complicated Tax return, he certainly seems to struggle with it.
Because the man is an imbecile....
A suspicion does creep across one's mind as to whether he showed the actual return that was filed at all, or if in that panicked morning when they couldn't find it, they cobbled something together from memory, or found a draft copy in the back of a filing cabinet, and as a result missed some stuff off.
Well given they are saying he paid the taxes etc & also the story he lost it & was waiting on HMRC to provide a copy I think you could well be right.
Still, look on the bright side. Even if the IMF are dead right, one sector which will get an absolute bonanza from Brexit will be the big London law firms. All those zillions of contracts referencing EU law to rewrite...
Still, look on the bright side. Even if the IMF are dead right, one sector which will get an absolute bonanza from Brexit will be the big London law firms. All those zillions of contracts referencing EU law to rewrite...
I don't think the diehard Leavers realise just how altruistic I'm being in supporting Remain.
Comments
I'd have more interest in what he has to say if it was about their November elections, frankly.
Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo as part of a multi national coalition (Us, The Netherlanders, Hanover, Nassau, Brunswick, and Prussia)
Hitler it was us, The French, and most of the invaded countries who took him on, but you're forgetting the contribution of the lend lease plan America gave us whilst they were neutral, and the contribution of the British Empire Forces
And I wouldn't say corporate lawyers are "suffering", we're plenty busy enough, but it's obvious from our interactions with clients and the market generally that UK PLC is putting transactions on hold because of the uncertainty. It was evident in the run up to GE2015, to a lesser extent though, and it's evident again now. I imagine it will lift post 23 June, whatever the outcome perversely, but it is there and it is right to report it without getting abuse for it...
Well it's a view....
I don't get Labour on the whole issue. It is about major corporations ruling the world, crushing entrepreneurial spirit with expensive regulation only they can afford, backed by unelected bureaucrats running an undemocratic monolith.
Surely this isn't the Labour party my Dad was a member of, when are they ever going to consider the working class in this country?
Looking at certainty to vote by age in table 10, and then looking at how people will vote by age in table 11, I can reach no other conclusion than that Leave is going to win.
This video explains why we should be in the EU
https://vimeo.com/85914510
https://twitter.com/TheFix/status/719913805636116481
I do feel a shift in the atmosphere towards LEAVE though. REMAIN feels like a campaign which is becalmed and a little bemused why it is not 15% ahead. And LEAVE similarly deighted and surprised it isnt. LEAVE has the mojo right now.
If business was worried about the election, they had a funny way of showing it.
You've posted that you think we'll leave in 10-15 years or so after some more woe. So why not just save a decade of woe and leave now?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/36024253
Are you kidding me?!
It is a not-so-secret government of the UK in waiting, poised to expand its influence (if that be possible) over every corner of our lives.
Trading bloc indeed..
1- The obvious point, the Tory campaign got "only" 37% of the vote - enough to win an election, not enough to win a two-horse referendum
2- I would argue the only reason the Tories' "Project Fear" worked last year is because they could point to (what they claimed were) VIVID examples of the supposed "disaster" of voting Labour: the "no money left" letter, and the image of Nicola Sturgeon leading an army of Scots just over the hill. But for the EU, the Remain campaign's predictions of what will happen if we leave are all theoretical -- because no country has ever left the EU, they can't PROVE it, or be perceived to have proven it in the eyes of voters. Bottom line is it's hard to get Joe Public to believe politicians' prophecies of doom unless you can point to (perceived) real examples.
Remain: 42% (-2)
Leave: 45% (+2)
(via ICM, online / 08 - 10 Apr)
Thirdhand
UKWLTEU
Stop faffing, bite the bullet, and get on with it.
Corporate law covers a very wide variety of fields eg commercial property, compliance, M & A, commercial litigation, Intellectual Property, contracts.
I'd be wary about extrapolating one person's, or one firm's, experience across an entire economy.
I think the downbeat Remainders and the upbeat Brexiteers are why the polls are a dead heat. Hard to see how the Remainders find a positive voice in the coming weeks.
"your writing sucks" says anon891..ABUSEEEEEEEE...SAFE SPACE SAFE SPACE...
Is the only election to be scheduled that day (apart from a probable Tooting by election)
The AV referendum was conducted on the same day as the Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland devolved elections, as well as the local council elections across the UK.
Be LEAVE!
Simple, concise, positive
(Or should that be Trusts?)
I'm not and my colleagues are not expecting sympathy, just making an observation.
@rowenamason: Anna Soubry says her boss Sajid Javid would not have gone to Australia "if he thought they were going to close the ruddy works"
Clinton 62 .. Trump 26
Clinton 63 .. Cruz 30
Sanders 70 .. Trump 23
Sanders 71 .. Cruz 24
http://www1.wne.edu/assets/112/PresidentialPressRelease_FINAL_04_12_16.pdf
Look at all the noisy IN people, they are from either the metro elite, the lawyers and city types or they are party hacks, and in some cases both. The OUT people are mostly businessmen and mostly active internationalists outside the EU, rather than lefties that try and handwave away most of the world outside the EU because it's nasty
But what interests me is that in the Welsh yougov poll Leave and Remain are essentially tied.
I would have expected Wales to be 60-40 for Remain in order for it to have a single 1% lead nationally, now I have Lead with a 1% lead if registration and turnout is equal throughout the country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JA56SbDiGk
http://www.cricket.com.au/video/james-taylor-takes-impossible-catch-at-short-leg-england-south-africa-elgar-fourth-test-highlights/2016-01-22
It's mutual screwing.
It sums up why i've felt the need to nail my colours to the "Reluctant Remainer" mast - we've too much to lose by voting Leave and taking a leap in the dark.
http://lawyers-inforbritain.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Lawyers-In-For-Britain-Report-on-the-UK-and-the-EU-Benefits-Misconceptions-and-Alternatives.pdf
Everyone knows how dismal and incompetent the IMF is with finances and economic forecasts.