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SystemSystem Posts: 12,267
edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s being suggested that Osborne is close to abandoning his leadership ambitions

In @TheSundayTimes, @ShippersUnbound suggests Osborne may be close to abandoning his leadership ambitions #EarlyDays pic.twitter.com/UVjOD1CmZN

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,433
    edited March 2016
    Indeed, I told you that last night, he declined to run in 2005, he might do the same this time.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    'm guessing Crabb has been promoted to be an untarnished Remainer since Osborne, May and Javid have all lost their shine. Patel deliberately not promoted for same reason.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    tyson said:

    Why golf then? If you look at modern players, they bulk up like any others. And for fixing- how easy is it to fix? And money and betting.....



    tyson said:

    Completely O/T- does anyone trust tennis? Between players and gluten free diets, players bulking alarmingly up, players transformational return from injuries, and the complete and utter domination of the game by a few characters over many years so the rest have to pay their bills by fixing, and the complete lack of transparency to any kind of testing.......

    I wouldn't trust tennis, cycling, cricket, athletics or pretty much any sport other than golf.
    Drug testing in golf more of a joke than tennis. The obvious think to take for golf for starters would be stuff like Adderall or Ritalin.
  • Well Mike and the Sunday Times have managed to ruin my morning thread.

    Time to write a new one.
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 665

    Well Mike and the Sunday Times have managed to ruin my morning thread.

    Time to write a new one.

    You could always set up your own site? ;)
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Re drug use and match fixing in tennis, Morris_Dancer, gent of this parish, used to regularly provide betting tips on tennis tournaments. Just saying.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,932
    edited March 2016
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    This is the opening to my morning thread

    Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.

    Cameron's losing it. His outbursts of rage and hate are similar to Gordon Brown's.
    Yes. All these reports of swearing rage - first at Boris, now at IDS - they do not denote the calm Old Etonian in serene control of events.

    Cameron has destroyed his legacy and his reputation with this one, single referendum, and in particular the lying "deal" he tried to sell (and now does not mention). He will never recover.
    Silly isn't it. Cameron, having decided to do a Wilson, didn't seem to bother to read up on Wilson's personal strategy, which allowed Wilson to keep his party together even while cabinet ministers campaigned on both sides of the '75 referendum. That is Cameron for you. Maybe, his true nature is starting to show: arrogant, vengeful, lacking in empathy and emotional intelligence, and, all round, not very nice.
    Even this reshuffle has show how deeply tribalist Cameron is. Crabb, Cairns and Bebb are all Remainers. Meanwhile Patel, who was obviously most experienced in the department to take over from IDS, has been ignored. Think Cameron is doing all he can to stop a Leaver taking over from him. Not great after most of them showed loyalty during his ridiculous gagging laws.
    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    Its worse than that.

    Cameron despises people who don't come from his privileged background.

    Yet he also has a deep insecurity towards and longing to be a member of the metropolitan leftists.

    Cameron is a man who feels ashamed to be a Tory and hates people (of a lower socioeconomic background) who are Conservatives by choice.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,417
    edited March 2016

    Indeed, I told you that last night, he declined to run in 2005, he might do the same this time.

    TSE! Chancellor PalpatineOsborne is evil!
  • Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    SeanT said:

    fpt

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    They expect absolute loyalty from their underlings, even after they've abused their power over then, and then seem shocked when they don't get it.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2016
    SeanT said:

    fpt

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    You're right. Good to see Osborne give up on his leadership ambitions as well. Time for someone from an ordinary background, like Sajid Javid.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Latinos for Trump!
  • SeanT said:

    fpt

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    I've met Cameron, so has JohnO. We would dispute your assertions,

    Out of curiosity, how many times have you been in his company?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,417
    edited March 2016
    SeanT said:

    fpt

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    He should have stayed at Carlton TV
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    FPT

    IDS's resignation is certainly stirring up the rhetoric on PB too
    https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/711290189876822016
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    Re Sports Betting...I think it is worth noting that the prime suspect in the 90's match fixing via the likes of floodlight failures, now runs the world biggest bookies.

    http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/14095257/how-world-biggest-bookie-paul-phua-was-snared-fbi-last-year-world-series-poker-walked-away-free-man
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,417

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness? Unelected!

    Altmann? Former Banker! :lol:
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,728
    But he is right. Cooper is venomous and is desperately spinning against IDS.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @TomMcTague: PM, speaking to @IndyOnSunday on its final edition, also refuses to rule out serving as a minister in a future govt https://t.co/bruMBwFdYn
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Well Mike and the Sunday Times have managed to ruin my morning thread.

    Time to write a new one.

    You could always set up your own site? ;)
    Is that a hint?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    SeanT said:

    fpt

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    I have said it before and I will say it again, Cameron is not a particularly intelligent man. He is a lucky man. The General Election in 2015 was won not due to Cameron and his superior intellect, it was down to a completely incompetent Labour party proposing wealth taxes and the threat of a loony SNP government propping up a minority Labour government. I knew so many Tory/UKIP waverers who voted Tory as they were terrified of a left-wing government. Same goes for the scores of liberal friends I have. A significant number backed the Tories as they did not see Labour as being a party for the working men/women of this country.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    SeanT said:

    fpt

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    I've met Cameron, so has JohnO. We would dispute your assertions,

    Out of curiosity, how many times have you been in his company?
    I never have, Mr. Eagles, but I am perfectly capable of reading what man man says and then comparing that to what he does. You might have a crush on the bloke, fair enough. I despise him.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Merkel's party's average poll rating down to 34.7%:

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
  • Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness? Unelected!

    Altmann? Former Banker! :lol:
    Standard banker bashing. She is an expert on pensions who worked closely with him in his department and has every right to attack IDS, apparently especially over his attitude to women's pensions. She has welcomed the appointment of Stephen Crabb
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,417
    How many GEs did IDS lose?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness Altman who owes her title to Cameron, comes out in support of Cameron. Now there is a surprise.
  • MP_SE said:

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness Altman who owes her title to Cameron, comes out in support of Cameron. Now there is a surprise.
    No she came out against IDS as she works with him.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness? Unelected!

    Altmann? Former Banker! :lol:
    Corbynism sweeping the nation ;-)
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2016
    With the greatest of respect to both DavidL and TSE, do you still seriously think of yourselves as "wet Tories" or "One Nation Tories", if you are Osborne supporters? This is a man who in the last 24 hours has been accused of being too callous to the poor by IDS, David Davis and Nadine Dorries. That after also being accused of being too harsh on poor people by Norman Tebbit and Nigel Lawson during the tax credits fiasco.

    That Osborne supports staying in the EU (most likely because he likes going to international summits and feeling important rather than any deep ideological love), and has a couple of other metro-fashionable viewpoints, does not change that on the economy and welfare he is as right-wing as any mainstream Tory since the war.
  • Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Now making big story on Sky
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    How many GEs did IDS lose?

    How many did IDS win, and how many did Cameron win?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,417

    How many GEs did IDS lose?

    How many did IDS win, and how many did Cameron win?
    How many did he lose, dammit? :)
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    edited March 2016

    MP_SE said:

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness Altman who owes her title to Cameron, comes out in support of Cameron. Now there is a surprise.
    No she came out against IDS as she works with him.
    Baroness Altman who railed against the proposed ending of pension tax relief for higher rate tax payers in favour of cutting allowances to the disabled.

    he'll go down well with the electorate.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,932

    SeanT said:

    fpt

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    I've met Cameron, so has JohnO. We would dispute your assertions,

    Out of curiosity, how many times have you been in his company?
    Dear me.

    Members of the Conservative party have met Conservative leader and think he's wonderful.

    Please don't regress into Richard Nabavi territory - you're better than that.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    SeanT said:

    fpt

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    I've met Cameron, so has JohnO. We would dispute your assertions,

    Out of curiosity, how many times have you been in his company?
    The man is not an idiot. He just has poor leadership skills. From his initial efforts to stack the 1922 Committee with frontbencher, to his latest attempts to scrap Association Chairmen in favour of CCHQ placemen, he tries crush any source of independence from those below him. Then he is surprised when he don't inspire much loyalty from his troops.
  • Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Now making big story on Sky
    Sky now saying it is really damaging to IDS
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    How many GEs did IDS lose?

    How many did IDS win, and how many did Cameron win?
    How many did he lose, dammit? :)
    The same number as Dave. 2 nil to Dave.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    SeanT said:

    fpt

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    I've met Cameron, so has JohnO. We would dispute your assertions,

    Out of curiosity, how many times have you been in his company?
    Dear me.

    Members of the Conservative party have met Conservative leader and think he's wonderful.

    Please don't regress into Richard Nabavi territory - you're better than that.
    Where is Mr Nabavi, incidentally?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Altmann likes to pretend she is on the side of the consumer. I don't think she has explained the reason behind the single-tie annuity deal with Legal & General during her stint at Saga.
  • SeanT said:

    fpt

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    I've met Cameron, so has JohnO. We would dispute your assertions,

    Out of curiosity, how many times have you been in his company?
    Dear me.

    Members of the Conservative party have met Conservative leader and think he's wonderful.

    Please don't regress into Richard Nabavi territory - you're better than that.
    Except, it was a clear refutation of what Sean was saying.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    MP_SE said:

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness Altman who owes her title to Cameron, comes out in support of Cameron. Now there is a surprise.
    No she came out against IDS as she works with him.
    Baroness Altman who railed against the proposed ending of pension tax relief for higher rate tax payers in favour of cutting allowances to the disabled.

    he'll go down well with the electorate.
    If the fight is over soul of Tory party, don't imagine such a recent Labour member will have much sway with Tory members.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,932

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Now making big story on Sky
    Bleat, bleat, bleat.

    Do you really think ordinary voters care ???

    What people like is having their prejudices confirmed.

    And the 'wicked Tories taking money from the disabled to give to their rich friends' is a very widespread prejudice.

    IDS has confirmed that.

    And its going to take years for it to be forgotten.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,728

    MP_SE said:

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness Altman who owes her title to Cameron, comes out in support of Cameron. Now there is a surprise.
    No she came out against IDS as she works with him.
    Funny how she said not one word against him whilst he was still 'onside'. So much for principles.
  • Just a thought. If Osborne decides to go pre 23d June and DC offers it to Gove will he take it
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,728

    How many GEs did IDS lose?

    How many did IDS win, and how many did Cameron win?
    Stupid comment since he never got the chance to contest any.
  • MP_SE said:

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness Altman who owes her title to Cameron, comes out in support of Cameron. Now there is a surprise.
    No she came out against IDS as she works with him.
    Baroness Altman who railed against the proposed ending of pension tax relief for higher rate tax payers in favour of cutting allowances to the disabled.

    he'll go down well with the electorate.
    If the fight is over soul of Tory party, don't imagine such a recent Labour member will have much sway with Tory members.
    Its her message that is so damaging to IDS
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    edited March 2016

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    This is the opening to my morning thread

    Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.

    Cameron's losing it. His outbursts of rage and hate are similar to Gordon Brown's.
    Yes. All these reports of swearing rage - first at Boris, now at IDS - they do not denote the calm Old Etonian in serene control of events.

    Cameron has destroyed his legacy and his reputation with this one, single referendum, and in particular the lying "deal" he tried to sell (and now does not mention). He will never recover.
    Silly isn't it. Cameron, having decided to do a Wilson, didn't seem to bother to read up on Wilson's personal strategy, which allowed Wilson to keep his party together even while cabinet ministers campaigned on both sides of the '75 referendum. That is Cameron for you. Maybe, his true nature is starting to show: arrogant, vengeful, lacking in empathy and emotional intelligence, and, all round, not very nice.
    Even this reshuffle has show how deeply tribalist Cameron is. Crabb, Cairns and Bebb are all Remainers. Meanwhile Patel, who was obviously most experienced in the department to take over from IDS, has been ignored. Think Cameron is doing all he can to stop a Leaver taking over from him. Not great after most of them showed loyalty during his ridiculous gagging laws.
    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    Its worse than that.

    Cameron despises people who don't come from his privileged background.

    Yet he also has a deep insecurity towards and longing to be a member of the metropolitan leftists.

    Cameron is a man who feels ashamed to be a Tory and hates people (of a lower socioeconomic background) who are Conservatives by choice.

    Those of kipper tendency railing against Cam and Ozzie on here would have done so even if they had been acclaimed as heroes by the public. No ideas from them just bile.

  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Now making big story on Sky
    At 11pm on a Saturday night while Match of the Day is on the other side.

    Please, give
  • Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Now making big story on Sky
    Bleat, bleat, bleat.

    Do you really think ordinary voters care ???

    What people like is having their prejudices confirmed.

    And the 'wicked Tories taking money from the disabled to give to their rich friends' is a very widespread prejudice.

    IDS has confirmed that.

    And its going to take years for it to be forgotten.
    One word - Corbyn
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "David Cameron has admitted for the first time his “fear” Britain could sleepwalk out of the EU – as the Tory civil war over Europe exploded into the open following the dramatic resignation of Iain Duncan Smith.

    In an exclusive interview with The Independent on Sunday, Mr Cameron conceded that the result of the 23 June referendum was now on a knife edge and revealed his biggest concern was in persuading enough people to turn out to deny victory to the Brexit campaign."


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-interview-prime-minister-urges-people-to-vote-in-eu-referendum-or-youll-find-were-out-a6941436.html
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness? Unelected!

    Altmann? Former Banker! :lol:
    Standard banker bashing. She is an expert on pensions who worked closely with him in his department and has every right to attack IDS, apparently especially over his attitude to women's pensions. She has welcomed the appointment of Stephen Crabb
    If she is an expert on pensions (whatever that means) then perhaps she should be in the Treasury, that is where pension policy is now being decided it appears. I also noted this week that George Osborne made statements in his budget speech about the future of education.

    Is there no end to Osborne's talents? He can work out pension policy and education policy (got to be savings there, we can surely dump two SoSs at least) and his has his sticky mitts well into industrial and transport policy too. Of course, it could be argued that if he just concentrated on his actual job then maybe he wouldn't have missed every target he has set himself and the nation's finances might look a lot better.
  • Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Now making big story on Sky
    At 11pm on a Saturday night while Match of the Day is on the other side.

    Please, give
    Heading straight onto Marr in the morning. Should make interesting viewing
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    MP_SE said:

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness Altman who owes her title to Cameron, comes out in support of Cameron. Now there is a surprise.
    No she came out against IDS as she works with him.
    Baroness Altman who railed against the proposed ending of pension tax relief for higher rate tax payers in favour of cutting allowances to the disabled.

    he'll go down well with the electorate.
    If the fight is over soul of Tory party, don't imagine such a recent Labour member will have much sway with Tory members.
    Its her message that is so damaging to IDS
    The crux of the issue is Osborne hammering disabled while cutting taxes for the wealthy. And after he did this in first omnishambles budget and didn't learn.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    Just a thought. If Osborne decides to go pre 23d June and DC offers it to Gove will he take it

    Cameron has nade clear from this reshuffle that he is only interested in promoting Remainers.
  • Just a thought. If Osborne decides to go pre 23d June and DC offers it to Gove will he take it

    Cameron has nade clear from this reshuffle that he is only interested in promoting Remainers.
    Not after Gove has endorsed Osborne tonight
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,001
    Danny565 said:

    With the greatest of respect to both DavidL and TSE, do you still seriously think of yourselves as "wet Tories" or "One Nation Tories", if you are Osborne supporters? This is a man who in the last 24 hours has been accused of being too callous to the poor by IDS, David Davis and Nadine Dorries. That after also being accused of being too harsh on poor people by Norman Tebbit and Nigel Lawson during the tax credits fiasco.

    That Osborne supports staying in the EU (most likely because he likes going to international summits and feeling important rather than any deep ideological love), and has a couple of other metro-fashionable viewpoints, does not change that on the economy and welfare he is as right-wing as any mainstream Tory since the war.

    I'd agree Osborne is not the classic wet. But he does lack the moral fervour(particularly around lifestyles) that some dislike about the right.
  • Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness? Unelected!

    Altmann? Former Banker! :lol:
    Standard banker bashing. She is an expert on pensions who worked closely with him in his department and has every right to attack IDS, apparently especially over his attitude to women's pensions. She has welcomed the appointment of Stephen Crabb
    If she is an expert on pensions (whatever that means) then perhaps she should be in the Treasury, that is where pension policy is now being decided it appears. I also noted this week that George Osborne made statements in his budget speech about the future of education.

    Is there no end to Osborne's talents? He can work out pension policy and education policy (got to be savings there, we can surely dump two SoSs at least) and his has his sticky mitts well into industrial and transport policy too. Of course, it could be argued that if he just concentrated on his actual job then maybe he wouldn't have missed every target he has set himself and the nation's finances might look a lot better.
    I have said for a while that neither Osborne or Boris will succeed DC. However the DWP is where these decisions are made and it was IDS who put forward the PIPs and his recommendation was agreed in cabinet with him in attendance
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,932

    SeanT said:

    fpt

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    I've met Cameron, so has JohnO. We would dispute your assertions,

    Out of curiosity, how many times have you been in his company?
    Dear me.

    Members of the Conservative party have met Conservative leader and think he's wonderful.

    Please don't regress into Richard Nabavi territory - you're better than that.
    Except, it was a clear refutation of what Sean was saying.
    Eagles

    It doesn't matter whether what SeanT was saying is right or wrong.
    It doesn't matter what you and JohnO * think from meeting Cameron is right or wrong.
    It doesn't matter even matter what I think, in cervesia veritas **, is right or wrong.

    What matters is that it confirms people's prejudices that the Conservatives are heartless c*nts who will take from the disadvantaged and give it to themselves and their mates.

    * Just because you and JohnO have met Cameron doesn't necessarily mean your views of him are correct.

    ** I've consumed an excessive amount of alcohol today and am deeply exercised by wondering how much that useless twat Stuart Lancaster was paid for being crap.

  • MP_SE said:

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness Altman who owes her title to Cameron, comes out in support of Cameron. Now there is a surprise.
    No she came out against IDS as she works with him.
    Baroness Altman who railed against the proposed ending of pension tax relief for higher rate tax payers in favour of cutting allowances to the disabled.

    he'll go down well with the electorate.
    If the fight is over soul of Tory party, don't imagine such a recent Labour member will have much sway with Tory members.
    Its her message that is so damaging to IDS
    The crux of the issue is Osborne hammering disabled while cutting taxes for the wealthy. And after he did this in first omnishambles budget and didn't learn.
    It was IDS recommendation
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Dunno if it's already been posted, but the Telegraph claims Priti Patel was also considering resigning over the Wheelchair Tax.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    Cameron now deploying some very stale arguments:

    “It is worth standing back and thinking here we are, the 70th anniversary of the end of the Second World War … This continent which was in conflict for so much of the 20th century has found a way of peaceful coexistence, and that is something we should want to be part of and want to share in.”
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    MP_SE said:

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness Altman who owes her title to Cameron, comes out in support of Cameron. Now there is a surprise.
    No she came out against IDS as she works with him.
    Baroness Altman who railed against the proposed ending of pension tax relief for higher rate tax payers in favour of cutting allowances to the disabled.

    he'll go down well with the electorate.
    If the fight is over soul of Tory party, don't imagine such a recent Labour member will have much sway with Tory members.
    Its her message that is so damaging to IDS
    The crux of the issue is Osborne hammering disabled while cutting taxes for the wealthy. And after he did this in first omnishambles budget and didn't learn.
    It was IDS recommendation
    After he was told it was needed to reduce the deficit. Then Osborne spends it on a tax cut bribe to wealthy Tories to help him in the coming leadership election. No wonder IDS is furious.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,001
    The thing I'm wondering is why Osborne was so desperate to cut CGT? Did he think it would whet the appetites of wealthy donors in the run up to a Conservative leadership election?
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    Just a thought. If Osborne decides to go pre 23d June and DC offers it to Gove will he take it

    Cameron has nade clear from this reshuffle that he is only interested in promoting Remainers.
    Not after Gove has endorsed Osborne tonight
    Patel also endorsed Osborne but was shunted aside for pro-European Crabb.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    This is the opening to my morning thread

    Full disclosure, I've never been a fan of Iain Duncan Smith, from his time as Maastricht rebel that did so much to destroy the government of John Major and usher in thirteen years of Labour, to his disastrous stint as Tory leader which saw his leadership range from the dire to the appalling.

    Cameron's losing it. His outbursts of rage and hate are similar to Gordon Brown's.
    Yes. All these reports of swearing rage - first at Boris, now at IDS - they do not denote the calm Old Etonian in serene control of events.

    Cameron has destroyed his legacy and his reputation with this one, single referendum, and in particular the lying "deal" he tried to sell (and now does not mention). He will never recover.
    Silly isn't it. Cameron, having decided to do a Wilson, didn't seem to bother to read up on Wilson's personal strategy, which allowed Wilson to keep his party together even while cabinet ministers campaigned on both sides of the '75 referendum. That is Cameron for you. Maybe, his true nature is starting to show: arrogant, vengeful, lacking in empathy and emotional intelligence, and, all round, not very nice.
    Even this reshuffle has show how deeply tribalist Cameron is. Crabb, Cairns and Bebb are all Remainers. Meanwhile Patel, who was obviously most experienced in the department to take over from IDS, has been ignored. Think Cameron is doing all he can to stop a Leaver taking over from him. Not great after most of them showed loyalty during his ridiculous gagging laws.
    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    Its worse than that.

    Cameron despises people who don't come from his privileged background.

    Yet he also has a deep insecurity towards and longing to be a member of the metropolitan leftists.

    Cameron is a man who feels ashamed to be a Tory and hates people (of a lower socioeconomic background) who are Conservatives by choice.

    Hmmm. Cameron is a straight down the line Tory, as is Osborne. I think he is a lot more hated than he is a hater.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    Eagles

    It doesn't matter whether what SeanT was saying is right or wrong.
    It doesn't matter what you and JohnO * think from meeting Cameron is right or wrong.
    It doesn't matter even matter what I think, in cervesia veritas **, is right or wrong.

    What matters is that it confirms people's prejudices that the Conservatives are heartless c*nts who will take from the disadvantaged and give it to themselves and their mates.

    As you suggest the voters already think that. However, they also think they basically know what they're doing, so as long as the opposition don't offer any competition on that front they'll keep getting elected.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,932
    edited March 2016

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness? Unelected!

    Altmann? Former Banker! :lol:
    Standard banker bashing. She is an expert on pensions who worked closely with him in his department and has every right to attack IDS, apparently especially over his attitude to women's pensions. She has welcomed the appointment of Stephen Crabb
    If she is an expert on pensions (whatever that means) then perhaps she should be in the Treasury, that is where pension policy is now being decided it appears. I also noted this week that George Osborne made statements in his budget speech about the future of education.

    Is there no end to Osborne's talents? He can work out pension policy and education policy (got to be savings there, we can surely dump two SoSs at least) and his has his sticky mitts well into industrial and transport policy too. Of course, it could be argued that if he just concentrated on his actual job then maybe he wouldn't have missed every target he has set himself and the nation's finances might look a lot better.
    Don't forget Osborne's announcement of Regional Mayors for 'West of England', 'Greater Lincolnshire' and 'The Eastern Powerhouse'.

    I'm sure I'm not the only person who while reading Osborne's meddling mania thought "Why don't you f*cking shut up, mind your own business and try to do your own job properly".

    Instead we had Osborne making announcements which were the responsibility of half a dozen different departments.

    Perhaps older PBers could enlighten me but I don't think that was the way Lawson, Howe, Healey, Jenkins and the other Chancellors of yesteryear operated.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    The thing I'm wondering is why Osborne was so desperate to cut CGT? Did he think it would whet the appetites of wealthy donors in the run up to a Conservative leadership election?

    He's right-wing, he thinks there should be less taxes on rich people.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,433
    edited March 2016

    Just a thought. If Osborne decides to go pre 23d June and DC offers it to Gove will he take it

    Cameron has nade clear from this reshuffle that he is only interested in promoting Remainers.
    Not after Gove has endorsed Osborne tonight
    Patel also endorsed Osborne but was shunted aside for pro-European Crabb.
    The reason, even Leavers are agreeing with, on why Crabb was promoted to DWP was not because he's a Remainer, is that 1) he's very capable, 2) because of his background it will be very hard to characterise him as a heartless Tory toff who gets the horn by cutting the benefits of the poor.

    As for the Welsh promotions caused by Stephen Crabb's promotion, it just so happens the Welsh MPs are generally Remainers.

    They cant risk appointing English VIceroys to the Welsh office.
  • Sir Peter Bottomley has just endorsed Ros Alltman's statement and said that he had spoken to IDS a couple of days ago and he didn't understand the problem with women's pensions. He went on to say he would take GO over IDS and Ros Alltman over IDS. This is going to get messy for IDS
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    The thing I'm wondering is why Osborne was so desperate to cut CGT? Did he think it would whet the appetites of wealthy donors in the run up to a Conservative leadership election?

    He's right-wing, he thinks there should be less taxes on rich people.
    Paid for by the disabled poor.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Cameron now deploying some very stale arguments:

    “It is worth standing back and thinking here we are, the 70th anniversary of the end of the Second World War … This continent which was in conflict for so much of the 20th century has found a way of peaceful coexistence, and that is something we should want to be part of and want to share in.”

    Cameron's grasp of WW2 shames Eton College. He declared that Britain was America's junior partner in 1940 and seems to believe that the war ended in 1946.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    A vast, heaving gap is opening up in the middle ground and no-one seems very interested in occupying it. Strange days.
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275

    Cameron now deploying some very stale arguments:

    “It is worth standing back and thinking here we are, the 70th anniversary of the end of the Second World War … This continent which was in conflict for so much of the 20th century has found a way of peaceful coexistence, and that is something we should want to be part of and want to share in.”

    The article has the whiff of desperation about it. He is making the referendum choice sound like good versus evil, not a choice between two perfectly viable futures for the country. If he really thinks LEAVE is so bad then he has been utterly irresponsible to have instigated a referendum at all.

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,001

    The thing I'm wondering is why Osborne was so desperate to cut CGT? Did he think it would whet the appetites of wealthy donors in the run up to a Conservative leadership election?

    He's right-wing, he thinks there should be less taxes on rich people.
    He's also very political. And CGT was hardly set at a particularly onerous rate. Will he turn out to be the Tories' Jeb Bush when it comes to the leadership election?
  • MP_SE said:

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Baroness Altman who owes her title to Cameron, comes out in support of Cameron. Now there is a surprise.
    No she came out against IDS as she works with him.
    Baroness Altman who railed against the proposed ending of pension tax relief for higher rate tax payers in favour of cutting allowances to the disabled.

    he'll go down well with the electorate.
    If the fight is over soul of Tory party, don't imagine such a recent Labour member will have much sway with Tory members.
    Its her message that is so damaging to IDS
    The crux of the issue is Osborne hammering disabled while cutting taxes for the wealthy. And after he did this in first omnishambles budget and didn't learn.
    It was IDS recommendation
    After he was told it was needed to reduce the deficit. Then Osborne spends it on a tax cut bribe to wealthy Tories to help him in the coming leadership election. No wonder IDS is furious.
    He did not need to come up with PIPs and he resigned after his own scheme had been paused by GO
  • The thing I'm wondering is why Osborne was so desperate to cut CGT? Did he think it would whet the appetites of wealthy donors in the run up to a Conservative leadership election?

    Hasn't cutting it in the past, increased the amount it raises.

    For a Chancellor desperate to eliminate the deficit, it seems like a good measure to continue
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    edited March 2016

    Just a thought. If Osborne decides to go pre 23d June and DC offers it to Gove will he take it

    Cameron has nade clear from this reshuffle that he is only interested in promoting Remainers.
    Not after Gove has endorsed Osborne tonight
    Patel also endorsed Osborne but was shunted aside for pro-European Crabb.
    The reason, even Leavers are agreeing with, on why Crabb was promoted to DWP was not because he's a Remainer, is that 1) he's very capable, 2) because of his background it will be very hard to characterise him as a heartless Tory toff who gets the horn by cutting the benefits of the poor.

    As for the Welsh promotions caused by Stephen Crabb's promotion, it just so happens the Welsh MPs are generally Remainers.

    They cant risk appointing English VIceroys to the Welsh office.

    And Priti Patel is not very good.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    The thing I'm wondering is why Osborne was so desperate to cut CGT? Did he think it would whet the appetites of wealthy donors in the run up to a Conservative leadership election?

    He's right-wing, he thinks there should be less taxes on rich people.
    Paid for by the disabled poor.
    Correct. And since Labour decided to entertain themselves in a gentleman's way rather that picking a leader who might win the next election, that's what's going to happen.
  • The thing I'm wondering is why Osborne was so desperate to cut CGT? Did he think it would whet the appetites of wealthy donors in the run up to a Conservative leadership election?

    I would agree that cut in CGT was unnecessary
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    The Tories are eating themselves. It's kinda fun to watch.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,932

    Eagles

    It doesn't matter whether what SeanT was saying is right or wrong.
    It doesn't matter what you and JohnO * think from meeting Cameron is right or wrong.
    It doesn't matter even matter what I think, in cervesia veritas **, is right or wrong.

    What matters is that it confirms people's prejudices that the Conservatives are heartless c*nts who will take from the disadvantaged and give it to themselves and their mates.

    As you suggest the voters already think that. However, they also think they basically know what they're doing, so as long as the opposition don't offer any competition on that front they'll keep getting elected.
    That's the longterm divide in the people's eyes:

    Conservative = heartless but competent
    Labour = well meaning but incompetent

    The whole point of the 'Cameron Project' was to 'detoxify' the heartless bit.

    Without that what do the Cameroons have ?

    Is there anyone here who would place George Osborne in charge of their own personal finances ?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,433
    edited March 2016

    Just a thought. If Osborne decides to go pre 23d June and DC offers it to Gove will he take it

    Cameron has nade clear from this reshuffle that he is only interested in promoting Remainers.
    Not after Gove has endorsed Osborne tonight
    Patel also endorsed Osborne but was shunted aside for pro-European Crabb.
    The reason, even Leavers are agreeing with, on why Crabb was promoted to DWP was not because he's a Remainer, is that 1) he's very capable, 2) because of his background it will be very hard to characterise him as a heartless Tory toff who gets the horn by cutting the benefits of the poor.

    As for the Welsh promotions caused by Stephen Crabb's promotion, it just so happens the Welsh MPs are generally Remainers.

    They cant risk appointing English VIceroys to the Welsh office.

    And Priti Patel is not very good.

    She's a Leaver, she is brilliant. See this video clip as proof

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DrsVhzbLzU
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2016

    A vast, heaving gap is opening up in the middle ground and no-one seems very interested in occupying it. Strange days.

    I honestly think Andy Burnham as leader, while far from great, would be streets ahead in the polls right now tbh.

    Even last year, during the Labour leadership contest, there was a poll asking people to choose between Burnham and Osborne as best PM, and Burnham was slightly ahead in that - and that was while Osborne was still in the post-election honeymoon and before he tried his reverse Robin Hood act twice within a few months.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,001

    A vast, heaving gap is opening up in the middle ground and no-one seems very interested in occupying it. Strange days.

    True but it can be self-reinforcing. The more each side sees the other as extreme the less they think they need to appeal to the centre ground. Also the triangulation trick of Clinton and Blair looks rather tired nowadays (look what happened to Clegg). Whatever success it might bring after a while it begins to look calculating. I worry about Trump but you have to say that in some respects he is redefining the centre ground.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    A vast, heaving gap is opening up in the middle ground and no-one seems very interested in occupying it. Strange days.

    That's FPTP for you. Since the opposition isn't providing any kind of threat in the centre, the government doesn't need to go there either.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587

    Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Fight! Fight!

    It feels strange that Labour is the most united party this month, courtesy of Cam and Ozzy for giving issues salience that they like to fight thier party over (Europe, disability) and we're broadly agreed about. Much obliged, squires.
  • Baroness Altman just fired an exocet back at IDS in a correscating statement about his motives and how difficult he was to deal with. Also Michael Gove and Priti Patel come out in support of Osborne.

    Fight! Fight!

    It feels strange that Labour is the most united party this month, courtesy of Cam and Ozzy for giving issues salience that they like to fight thier party over (Europe, disability) and we're broadly agreed about. Much obliged, squires.
    Is all part of the Tory master strategy to ensure Corbyn isn't deposed.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,728
    edited March 2016

    A vast, heaving gap is opening up in the middle ground and no-one seems very interested in occupying it. Strange days.

    It's because the middle ground is currently occupied by self serving f*ckwits of all parties who see if as a means of gaining or keeping power rather than an end in itself. It will be.perfctly possible to have principled people who believed in the middle ground just as there are principled people on the left and right who believe in those positions. The trouble is the non of the current crop have any principles beyond gaining and holding office.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    MikeK said:

    FPT

    IDS's resignation is certainly stirring up the rhetoric on PB too
    https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/711290189876822016

    That poor pussy :bawling:
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    Eagles

    It doesn't matter whether what SeanT was saying is right or wrong.
    It doesn't matter what you and JohnO * think from meeting Cameron is right or wrong.
    It doesn't matter even matter what I think, in cervesia veritas **, is right or wrong.

    What matters is that it confirms people's prejudices that the Conservatives are heartless c*nts who will take from the disadvantaged and give it to themselves and their mates.

    As you suggest the voters already think that. However, they also think they basically know what they're doing, so as long as the opposition don't offer any competition on that front they'll keep getting elected.
    That's the longterm divide in the people's eyes:

    Conservative = heartless but competent
    Labour = well meaning but incompetent

    The whole point of the 'Cameron Project' was to 'detoxify' the heartless bit.

    Without that what do the Cameroons have ?

    Is there anyone here who would place George Osborne in charge of their own personal finances ?

    What the Cameroons have is control of the government. The don't need to detoxify the heartless bit any more because Labour aren't making any attempt to counter well-meaning but incompetent.
  • As an aside, I would find it very difficult to vote for Stephen Crabb as Tory leader for the following reason.

    He's a passionate Welsh Rugby fan He voted against same sex marriage.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,932

    SeanT said:


    Silly isn't it. Cameron, having decided to do a Wilson, didn't seem to bother to read up on Wilson's personal strategy, which allowed Wilson to keep his party together even while cabinet ministers campaigned on both sides of the '75 referendum. That is Cameron for you. Maybe, his true nature is starting to show: arrogant, vengeful, lacking in empathy and emotional intelligence, and, all round, not very nice.

    Even this reshuffle has show how deeply tribalist Cameron is. Crabb, Cairns and Bebb are all Remainers. Meanwhile Patel, who was obviously most experienced in the department to take over from IDS, has been ignored. Think Cameron is doing all he can to stop a Leaver taking over from him. Not great after most of them showed loyalty during his ridiculous gagging laws.
    I'm coming to the conclusion that Cameron is, sociopolitically, a fucking idiot who got lucky.

    I am sure he is smart in a *PPE* sense, but he has literally no idea how ordinary people think, nor how Tory MPs, members, and activists from less privileged backgrounds might behave, and what they might sincerely believe.

    Its worse than that.

    Cameron despises people who don't come from his privileged background.

    Yet he also has a deep insecurity towards and longing to be a member of the metropolitan leftists.

    Cameron is a man who feels ashamed to be a Tory and hates people (of a lower socioeconomic background) who are Conservatives by choice.

    Hmmm. Cameron is a straight down the line Tory, as is Osborne. I think he is a lot more hated than he is a hater.

    Well that's a given considering that all successful politicians are hated.

    But even thinking back to 2005 when Cameron first became prominent all the articles were how he was a 'new ' type of Tory in touch with metropolitan progressiveness.
  • I would suggest an interesting competition for this forum. Name the post referendum cabinet
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    Just a thought. If Osborne decides to go pre 23d June and DC offers it to Gove will he take it

    Cameron has nade clear from this reshuffle that he is only interested in promoting Remainers.
    Not after Gove has endorsed Osborne tonight
    Patel also endorsed Osborne but was shunted aside for pro-European Crabb.
    The reason, even Leavers are agreeing with, on why Crabb was promoted to DWP was not because he's a Remainer, is that 1) he's very capable, 2) because of his background it will be very hard to characterise him as a heartless Tory toff who gets the horn by cutting the benefits of the poor.
    .
    All of which applies to working class girl of immigrant parents Priti Patel. With of course themajor extra benefit of her being deeply involved with the department already, so would have a major headstart. She was the obvious choice. But she's a Leaver and Crabb is a Remainer, so her loyalty in support of Osborne counts for nothing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,417
    edited March 2016


    Is all part of the Tory master strategy to ensure Corbyn isn't deposed.

    [Sunil and TSE confront each other, after the former has learnt that the latter has turned to the Daft Side]

    Sunil: You have allowed this Europhile Chancellor to twist your mind, until now, until now you've become the very thing you swore to destroy.

    TSE: Don't lecture me, Sunil! I see through the lies of the LEAVE campaign. I do not fear the EUropean Union as you do. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire!

    Sunil: Your new Empire?

    TSE: Don't make me MODERATE you.

    Sunil: TSE, my allegiance is to the Republic Monarchy, to democracy!

    TSE: If you're not with me, then you're my enemy.

    Sunil: [realizing that TSE is consumed by evil and there's no reasoning with him anymore] Only a Europhile deals in absolutes.
    [draws his lightsaber] I will do what I must!

    TSE: You will try!
    [draws his own lightsaber and confronts Sunil!]

    [later during a pause in the battle]


    Sunil: I have failed you, TSE. I have failed you.

    TSE: I should have known the LEAVERS were plotting to take over. Chancellor Osborne has showed me the true ways of the Force.

    Sunil: TSE, Chancellor Osborne is evil! The EU are evil. The Daft Side of the Force is an evil presence.

    TSE: From my point of view, it is the LEAVERS who are evil.

    Sunil: Well, then you really are lost!

    TSE: [raises his lightsaber] This is the end for you... my former master.

    [the battle resumes, but even later on, Sunil manages to reach a vantage point overlooking TSE]

    Sunil: It's over TSE, I have the high ground!

    TSE: You MISUNDERESTIMATE my power!

    Sunil: Don't try it!

    [TSE leaps at Sunil, but the latter anticipates his move and promptly lightsabers TSE's limbs off, leaving him writhing in pain on the ground!]

    Sunil: You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy the Europhiles, not join them! You were to bring balance to PoliticalBetting.com, not leave it in Daftness!

    TSE: [shouts] I HATE you!

    Sunil: You were my brother, TSE. I loved you.

    [Sunil, unable to bring himself to finish off poor TSE, walks away from the scene, disconsolate...

    To Be Continued....]



This discussion has been closed.