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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Now YouGov suggests that Labour’s Scottish nightmare is get

SystemSystem Posts: 11,689
edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Now YouGov suggests that Labour’s Scottish nightmare is getting worse

ScotParl voting intention (list):
SNP: 43% (+1)
CON: 19% (-1)
LAB 17%: (-3)
GRN: 8% (+2)
LDEM: 5% (-)
UKIP: 4% (+1)
(via YouGov / 06-09 Mar)

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    edited March 2016
    I still can't really believe that. But then I didn't believe the LDs being reduced to single figures.

    Oh, and my first first.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I wouldn't mess with this guy

    .@SheriffClarke: "The goons need back off & they need to be silenced-not the people... on the side of law & order."
    https://t.co/pTIPzOSSAo
  • Options
    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    Lib Dems winning here.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    FPT:
    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Anyhow, I've added Rule 40 to my sheet.

    Current forecast [already earned]

    Trump 21 [7]
    Cruz 4 [4]
    Rubio 1 [1]
    Kasich 0 [0]

    According to current GOP rules it should be a Donald coronation...

    I thought Rule 40 required a majority (not a plurality) so Rubio is still on zero. Not sure if Trump and Cruz lose any of theirs, not that I think it matters as Trump is getting a majority of delegates at the end of the day anyway.

    This whole conversation is moot. The system is designed to avoid the risk of a brokered convention. Almost every single state remaining now is Winner Takes All, which eliminates the risk of split delegates, especially as both races now are down to two-horse races (realistically Kasich and Rubio are not going to start winning slates of states). In a two-horse race of winner takes all states of differing sizes the odds of a candidate not getting a clear majority are miniscule.

    I can't recall a brokered convention other than in fiction (eg West Wing) in my entire adult lifetime, not sure if there's been any in my lifetime at all. When was the last one?
    If Puerto Rico is a "state" for these purposes, Rubio has 1.

    They're not all WTA by any means, although there are more of them, and the others will still deliver lopsided results for the winner.

    1952 (DEM), 1948 (REP)
    Puerto Rico is a territory not a state surely. There are 50 states, I can't see any of the extra territories (and I include DC) counting.
    Downthread someone said they'd checked, and for RNC purposes everything is a state...
    Yes, it's rule 1b:

    https://cdn.gop.com/docs/2012_RULES_Adopted.pdf
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    john_zims said:

    Lib Dems winning here.

    Who?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,819
    Still seems improbable, but cannot be discounted. Who was it who produced that very helpful illustrative chart for the implications of the scots polls for list and constituency seats?
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    According to Scotlandvotes, that would produce a parliament of:

    SNP 70
    Con 25
    Lab 20
    Grn 9
    LD 5
  • Options
    Seriously how awesome is David Cameron?

    When he became Tory Leader, the Tories had 40 fewer Scottish MPs than Labour, now they have the same number of MPs, and it is possible that the Tories finish ahead of Lab at Holyrood.

    The Tories will be screwed when Dave goes
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited March 2016
    Nicola Sturgeon on stage announcing all the goodies she is going to spend the £15bn transfer from English taxpayers on this year.

    But no mention of Indyref2...
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @alexmassie: A lot of spending promises coming from Nicola Sturgeon today. Just as well there's that extra £15bn a year available to her.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    edited March 2016
    On topic, if Corbyn isn't reviving Labour in Scotland, then Labour are screwed in England, because I'm fairly confident Corbyn, relatively speaking will be more popular in Scotland than he will be in England.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @euanmccolm: the fm pledges to use the new income tax powers fairly and responsibly by not using them.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2016
    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Coming behind Cons in scotland will be psychologically traumatic, water off a ducks back for the leadership, for those who wish to win elections and become a party of government though, utterly devastating.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    If it happens, it'll be beyond side splittingly funny.

    Twitter will go mental.
    notme said:

    Coming behind Cons in scotland will be psychologically traumatic, water off a ducks back for the leadership, for those who wish to win elections and become a party of government though, utterly devastating.

  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @euanmccolm: a standing ovation for the "forget your indyref2" message.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    oops, Tschaikovsky...
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    notme said:

    Coming behind Cons in scotland will be psychologically traumatic, water off a ducks back for the leadership, for those who wish to win elections and become a party of government though, utterly devastating.

    There aren't many of those left in membership of the Labour Party.

  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    RodCrosby said:

    oops, Tschaikovsky...

    now Beethoven.

    I'm sure we'll get to Wagner the moment Trump descends from the clouds...
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Vandalia !
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2016
    Here comes Trump backed by Beethoven's 9th...

    surreal.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @davidtorrance: So there we have it: 5 more years of cautious, managerial change of the sort the SNP used to mock Scottish Labour for... #SNP16
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Seriously how awesome is David Cameron?

    When he became Tory Leader, the Tories had 40 fewer Scottish MPs than Labour, now they have the same number of MPs, and it is possible that the Tories finish ahead of Lab at Holyrood.

    The Tories will be screwed when Dave goes

    As I said the other day.

    First the pig, then Labour, then the country, then the Lib Dems and now the Tories.

  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    LOL
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    If it happens, it'll be beyond side splittingly funny.

    Twitter will go mental.

    notme said:

    Coming behind Cons in scotland will be psychologically traumatic, water off a ducks back for the leadership, for those who wish to win elections and become a party of government though, utterly devastating.

    All the fault of the media and their neo liberal fascist agenda.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2016

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Vandalia !
    I thought it was Valhalla.

    Ride of the Valkyries!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Who is responsible for this piss-take?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    edited March 2016
    In all seriousness, though, I'd characterise almost every mc person I've ever met in Scotland as being conservative or liberal. With the wc base slipping to the SNP, it is really no surprise to see polls like this.

    Edit: Who did the mc beneficiaries of SNP largesse used to vote for. Lib Dem?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    On topic, if Corbyn isn't reviving Labour in Scotland, then Labour are screwed in England, because I'm fairly confident Corbyn, relatively speaking will be more popular in Scotland than he will be in England.

    The problem in scotland is that most former Labour voters are still happy with the SNP and distrustful of SLAB.

    Corbyn maybe more popular in scotland than other parts of the country however it will require decades to heal the trashed reputation of SLAB among the locals, just look at the Tories they haven't recovered since the 90's, and the LD are in a similar position not just in scotland but everywhere.

    Once the reputation of a supposedly left wing political party, after decades of being undermined by centrist leadership, gets trashed by a right wing leader (Jim Murphy), it's very difficult to recover, especially under FPTP once you drop from the top 2 it's difficult to recover.

    Under FPTP in scotland if you are left wing you vote SNP, if you are right wing you vote Tory, and those in the middle can select a multitude of parties that are neither.
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Vandalia !
    I thought it was Valhalla.

    Ride of the Valkyries!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Who is responsible for this piss-take?
    Mind boggling provocation.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    hand-written speech.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Speedy said:

    On topic, if Corbyn isn't reviving Labour in Scotland, then Labour are screwed in England, because I'm fairly confident Corbyn, relatively speaking will be more popular in Scotland than he will be in England.

    The problem in scotland is that most former Labour voters are still happy with the SNP and distrustful of SLAB.

    Corbyn maybe more popular in scotland than other parts of the country however it will require decades to heal the trashed reputation of SLAB among the locals, just look at the Tories they haven't recovered since the 90's, and the LD are in a similar position not just in scotland but everywhere.

    Once the reputation of a supposedly left wing political party, after decades of being undermined by centrist leadership, gets trashed by a right wing leader (Jim Murphy), it's very difficult to recover, especially under FPTP once you drop from the top 2 it's difficult to recover.

    Under FPTP in scotland if you are left wing you vote SNP, if you are right wing you vote Tory, and those in the middle can select a multitude of parties that are neither.
    Murphy as leader wasn't the problem. It was the preceding 18 months of telling a third of their support that they were racist Nazis for aupporting independence and then being surprised that they left for another party that was the peoblem
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016
    Mortimer said:

    In all seriousness, though, I'd characterise almost every mc person I've ever met in Scotland as being conservative or liberal. With the wc base slipping to the SNP, it is really no surprise to see polls like this.

    Edit: Who did the mc beneficiaries of SNP largesse used to vote for. Lib Dem?

    The evolution of scottish politics is very simple and in stages.

    Stage one:

    Disgruntled conservatives form nationalist party.

    Stage two:

    Nationalist party uses cash redistribution from resources to attract disgruntled leftists.

    Stage three:

    Dissatisfaction with conservative government leads to implosion towards nationalists and liberals.

    Stage four:

    Dissatisfaction with Liberal leadership leads to implosion towards Labour and nationalists.

    Stage five:

    Dissatisfaction with Labour leadership leads to implosion towards nationalists.


    With each stage the SNP gains support, and is left as the only credible political party as all the others imploded.
    Now the question is for how long can the SNP remain credible and satisfy all the different factions that have come under it's tent, and what happens if the SNP too implodes?
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    Speedy said:

    On topic, if Corbyn isn't reviving Labour in Scotland, then Labour are screwed in England, because I'm fairly confident Corbyn, relatively speaking will be more popular in Scotland than he will be in England.

    The problem in scotland is that most former Labour voters are still happy with the SNP and distrustful of SLAB.

    Corbyn maybe more popular in scotland than other parts of the country however it will require decades to heal the trashed reputation of SLAB among the locals, just look at the Tories they haven't recovered since the 90's, and the LD are in a similar position not just in scotland but everywhere.

    Once the reputation of a supposedly left wing political party, after decades of being undermined by centrist leadership, gets trashed by a right wing leader (Jim Murphy), it's very difficult to recover, especially under FPTP once you drop from the top 2 it's difficult to recover.

    Under FPTP in scotland if you are left wing you vote SNP, if you are right wing you vote Tory, and those in the middle can select a multitude of parties that are neither.
    There is a case to be made that Scotland is no longer a FPTP country but instead a PR country, which has one layer of rather distant decision-making dominated by a single party in FPTP, while every other election from local councils to Europe is conducted under various forms of PR
    This leads to the potential for great volatility because of the smaller role of top-two tactical voting, as has been seen in Northern Ireland, and maybe this volatility will give Labour or the Conservatives a boost to eventually overtake the SNP
    On the other hand, nationalism is strong enough that it kept the Irish party system almost static for 80 years!
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    "Kasich was MD of Lehman Bros. when it failed and almost brought down the world."
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016
    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Trump again makes the crowd a participant in his speech.
    And everyone will be watching it on TV to see if there are protesters again.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Trump again makes the crowd a participant in his speech.
    He's a stand-up comedian, so it figures...
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Trump again makes the crowd a participant in his speech.
    He's a stand-up comedian, so it figures...
    It keeps the crowd from getting bored.
    How many speeches have we listened by politicians and got too bored to listen ?
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Trump again makes the crowd a participant in his speech.
    He's a stand-up comedian, so it figures...
    It keeps the crowd from getting bored.
    How many speeches have we listened by politicians and got too bored to listen ?
    That's Trump's magic. He's mesmerizing. No-one gives a shit what he's saying, as long as its outrageous and entertaining...
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Trump again makes the crowd a participant in his speech.
    He's a stand-up comedian, so it figures...
    It keeps the crowd from getting bored.
    How many speeches have we listened by politicians and got too bored to listen ?
    That's Trump's magic. He's mesmerizing. No-one gives a shit what he's saying, as long as its outrageous and entertaining...
    What odds do you make him for POTUS?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Pong said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Trump again makes the crowd a participant in his speech.
    He's a stand-up comedian, so it figures...
    It keeps the crowd from getting bored.
    How many speeches have we listened by politicians and got too bored to listen ?
    That's Trump's magic. He's mesmerizing. No-one gives a shit what he's saying, as long as its outrageous and entertaining...
    What odds do you make him for POTUS?
    About 25% I'd say.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Trump again makes the crowd a participant in his speech.
    He's a stand-up comedian, so it figures...
    It keeps the crowd from getting bored.
    How many speeches have we listened by politicians and got too bored to listen ?
    That's Trump's magic. He's mesmerizing. No-one gives a shit what he's saying, as long as its outrageous and entertaining...
    Nice jet in the background.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    "Putin called me a genius"
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016
    I can see that Trump's enemies are making a very usual mistake, they blame the victim for being attacked.
    Now many republican voters have been on the side of being attacked over many years by the other side, by blaming your own side for this you get discredited.

    Why should a republican vote for Cruz, Rubio or Kasich if they get blamed by them for being attacked by Sanders supporters?
    Blaming your own people for being attacked by the enemy is politically stupid.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Trump again makes the crowd a participant in his speech.
    He's a stand-up comedian, so it figures...
    It keeps the crowd from getting bored.
    How many speeches have we listened by politicians and got too bored to listen ?
    That's Trump's magic. He's mesmerizing. No-one gives a shit what he's saying, as long as its outrageous and entertaining...
    He's the closest thing to Howard Stern for POTUS...
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Pong said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Trump again makes the crowd a participant in his speech.
    He's a stand-up comedian, so it figures...
    It keeps the crowd from getting bored.
    How many speeches have we listened by politicians and got too bored to listen ?
    That's Trump's magic. He's mesmerizing. No-one gives a shit what he's saying, as long as its outrageous and entertaining...
    What odds do you make him for POTUS?
    75%
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Trump again makes the crowd a participant in his speech.
    He's a stand-up comedian, so it figures...
    It keeps the crowd from getting bored.
    How many speeches have we listened by politicians and got too bored to listen ?
    That's Trump's magic. He's mesmerizing. No-one gives a shit what he's saying, as long as its outrageous and entertaining...
    Nice jet in the background.
    Rolls Royce engined.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Telling the tale of Pershing again...
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2016
    Pigs' blood bullets for Muslims...
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Protestors...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    He'll do better than Romney for sure. And HRC will do worse than Obama.

    That leaves a kind of narrow window for Hillary.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016
    Pong said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Trump arriving to the strains of Wagner, apparently...

    Triumph of the Will redux?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQAGV90bHrA&feature=youtu.be

    Trump again makes the crowd a participant in his speech.
    He's a stand-up comedian, so it figures...
    It keeps the crowd from getting bored.
    How many speeches have we listened by politicians and got too bored to listen ?
    That's Trump's magic. He's mesmerizing. No-one gives a shit what he's saying, as long as its outrageous and entertaining...
    What odds do you make him for POTUS?
    I don't know anymore.
    The GOP is too ill and sickly as an organization to effectively support a Trump presidential campaign, or any other republican for the presidency.

    The CNN debate convinced me that Trump is going to run a very calm, effective and disciplined message, and the riots in Chicago point that his enemies are going to use violence to stop him.

    I don't know whether the violence of his opponents will overcome his lack of support from a party infrastructure.
    Will the face of Trump opposition being violent students overcome the face of Trump supporters being white supremacists ?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Scottish Labour are about as popular as UKIP are in England.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    One of the messages going by on the right-hand side: "Judge Scalia was murdered".
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    I've never seen such energy in a 70-year old. He's almost demented.

    Will his heart stand up to this?
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    "Who cares if I'm not 'presidential'?"
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    Dear reader, if you really think TrumPOTUS is 3/1 or better, get thee to the bookies...
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Some kick-off.

    Secret Service jump on Trump!
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    What was that?

    A threat approaching the stage?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    A bit odd that we've only had 7 EU polls since Cameron named the date on 20th February. What are the polling companies up to?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#2016
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Assassination attempt on Trump it seems.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2016
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    RodCrosby said:
    That's not as bad as it first seemed.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Speedy said:

    Assassination attempt on Trump it seems.

    Did he grab the baby to protect himself?
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    AndyJS said:

    A bit odd that we've only had 7 EU polls since Cameron named the date on 20th February. What are the polling companies up to?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#2016

    Conspiracy Theory - being leant on by Government to prevent Brexit swing showing.
    Mathematical Theory - trying to work out huge discrepancy between Phone and online polling.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016
    AndyJS said:

    A bit odd that we've only had 7 EU polls since Cameron named the date on 20th February. What are the polling companies up to?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#2016

    People don't want to spend money commissioning polls that maybe inaccurate.

    The 2015 GE legacy.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2016
    Reports something was thrown from the crowd at Trump...

    https://twitter.com/ColinTulloch/status/708699968782114818
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    I caught up with this weeks QT from the fair city of Dundee this week. I was disappointed to be too busy to go. Swinney and Davidson went at each other hammer and tongs in a high quality contest. Both fought their corners really well. Jenny Marra, who I really like, for Labour, was completely outclassed. Willie Rennie was pointless and that Green plonker had me reviewing my position on capital punishment by the end of the program.

    This is Scotland's politics at the moment. The SNP are totally dominant. Labour are completely ineffectual and seem to have nothing useful to say. Davidson has plenty to say but a maximum of 25% of the population will even give her an audience when she is still called a Tory. The Lib Dems seem completely pointless and the Greens are very likely to overtake them.

    It is an incredibly happy situation for the SNP. The only party that is ever likely to be a challenge to them for government is falling apart. A party that they will always be able to beat with one hand tied behind their back is becoming their main opposition. All the other parties are jokes with varying levels of humour. Nothing lasts forever in politics but it really doesn't get better than this for the SNP.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    RodCrosby said:

    I've never seen such energy in a 70-year old. He's almost demented.

    Will his heart stand up to this?

    Almost?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    If something untoward happens to Trump does Cruz get in ?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    edited March 2016
    DavidL said:

    I caught up with this weeks QT from the fair city of Dundee this week. I was disappointed to be too busy to go. Swinney and Davidson went at each other hammer and tongs in a high quality contest. Both fought their corners really well. Jenny Marra, who I really like, for Labour, was completely outclassed. Willie Rennie was pointless and that Green plonker had me reviewing my position on capital punishment by the end of the program.

    This is Scotland's politics at the moment. The SNP are totally dominant. Labour are completely ineffectual and seem to have nothing useful to say. Davidson has plenty to say but a maximum of 25% of the population will even give her an audience when she is still called a Tory. The Lib Dems seem completely pointless and the Greens are very likely to overtake them.

    It is an incredibly happy situation for the SNP. The only party that is ever likely to be a challenge to them for government is falling apart. A party that they will always be able to beat with one hand tied behind their back is becoming their main opposition. All the other parties are jokes with varying levels of humour. Nothing lasts forever in politics but it really doesn't get better than this for the SNP.

    I found Rennie the most objectionable panellist I've seen for ages. Attacking everyone, ineffectually, without any positive ideas.

    I guess thats the Lib Dem legacy after flunking government.....

    Edit: When the LD disappear, where do you think the voters will go David?
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Pulpstar said:

    If something untoward happens to Trump does Cruz get in ?

    Only if he fired the bullet...
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Britain Elects ‎@britainelects - ScotParl voting intention (list):
    SNP: 43% (+1)
    CON: 19% (-1)
    LAB 17%: (-3)

    Rogue poll as I was assured by Jeremy’s minions that Corbynmania would sweep all before it.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    I caught up with this weeks QT from the fair city of Dundee this week. I was disappointed to be too busy to go. Swinney and Davidson went at each other hammer and tongs in a high quality contest. Both fought their corners really well. Jenny Marra, who I really like, for Labour, was completely outclassed. Willie Rennie was pointless and that Green plonker had me reviewing my position on capital punishment by the end of the program.

    This is Scotland's politics at the moment. The SNP are totally dominant. Labour are completely ineffectual and seem to have nothing useful to say. Davidson has plenty to say but a maximum of 25% of the population will even give her an audience when she is still called a Tory. The Lib Dems seem completely pointless and the Greens are very likely to overtake them.

    It is an incredibly happy situation for the SNP. The only party that is ever likely to be a challenge to them for government is falling apart. A party that they will always be able to beat with one hand tied behind their back is becoming their main opposition. All the other parties are jokes with varying levels of humour. Nothing lasts forever in politics but it really doesn't get better than this for the SNP.

    Rennie was the most objectionable panellist I've seen for ages. Attacking everyone, ineffectually, without any positive ideas.

    I guess thats the Lib Dem legacy after flunking government.....

    Edit: When the LD disappear, where do you think the voters will go David?
    Those that are unionists will get swept up by the Tories. We are already seeing this in the Borders where the Tories may well win a few ex Lib Dem seats. Those that are not will go nationalists. The reality is (independence apart) both those parties in Scotland at least play on the middle ground where most Lib Dems came from.

    And Patrick Harvey was way, way more irritating than Rennie.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Britain Elects ‎@britainelects - ScotParl voting intention (list):
    SNP: 43% (+1)
    CON: 19% (-1)
    LAB 17%: (-3)

    Rogue poll as I was assured by Jeremy’s minions that Corbynmania would sweep all before it.


    Well, it's swept the nation clean of Labour voters...

  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    edited March 2016
    DavidL said:


    And Patrick Harvey was way, way more irritating than Rennie.

    He was spouting utter nonsense - made Lucas look vaguely sensible in comparison.....

    And thanks for confirming my guesses - glad to see more Unionists for the Tory cause!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    DavidL said:

    Nothing lasts forever in politics but it really doesn't get better than this for the SNP.

    The only cloud on the horizon is if the Zoomers figure out that Nicola ruled out Indyref2 in her speech today
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:


    And Patrick Harvey was way, way more irritating than Rennie.

    He was spouting utter nonsense - made Lucas look vaguely sensible in comparison.....

    And thanks for confirming my guesses - glad to see more Unionists for the Tory cause!
    "Confirming" may be a bit strong, it is only my opinion. But I would like to see the Tories in Scotland rebrand themselves as the Unionist party with a CDU type relationship to the English Tories. At the moment there is too low a ceiling on what they can achieve.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:


    And Patrick Harvey was way, way more irritating than Rennie.

    He was spouting utter nonsense - made Lucas look vaguely sensible in comparison.....

    And thanks for confirming my guesses - glad to see more Unionists for the Tory cause!
    "Confirming" may be a bit strong, it is only my opinion. But I would like to see the Tories in Scotland rebrand themselves as the Unionist party with a CDU type relationship to the English Tories. At the moment there is too low a ceiling on what they can achieve.
    Agreed.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    Nothing lasts forever in politics but it really doesn't get better than this for the SNP.

    The only cloud on the horizon is if the Zoomers figure out that Nicola ruled out Indyref2 in her speech today
    Certain regulars seem to have gone quiet about Indy at the moment....
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    Nothing lasts forever in politics but it really doesn't get better than this for the SNP.

    The only cloud on the horizon is if the Zoomers figure out that Nicola ruled out Indyref2 in her speech today
    The economics of Independence are completely unsellable at the moment, even by one of the most effective political parties in the UK. Hopefully, they will realise if it is ever going to be a reality all our politicians need to focus on rebuilding a credible and sustainable economy in Scotland. It would make a nice change after more than 25 years of obsession about constitutional matters.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:


    And Patrick Harvey was way, way more irritating than Rennie.

    He was spouting utter nonsense - made Lucas look vaguely sensible in comparison.....

    And thanks for confirming my guesses - glad to see more Unionists for the Tory cause!
    "Confirming" may be a bit strong, it is only my opinion. But I would like to see the Tories in Scotland rebrand themselves as the Unionist party with a CDU type relationship to the English Tories. At the moment there is too low a ceiling on what they can achieve.
    Do you think a rebranding will convince Scots to vote for Conservative governments, or do you think they don't want Conservative governments full stop? I'd go with the latter but would be willing to hear arguments for the former; I just think that ship sailed with Empire
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited March 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    If something untoward happens to Trump does Cruz get in ?

    Not a nice calculation, but there are betting implications.....

    Probability must be <1% though.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016
    RodCrosby said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If something untoward happens to Trump does Cruz get in ?

    Only if he fired the bullet...
    I think that is something we have to take into consideration here.
    What happens if Trump gets shot?

    If he survives he rides the attempt all the way to the White House.
    If he doesn't he becomes a martyr to his cause, and everyone will have to pass the Trump litmus test if they want to have a chance to get elected.

    In both cases his opponents get the blame.

    That's of course after the riots by thousands of armed Trump supporters and right wing militias all over america.

    After Martin Luther King was shot most of america looked like it was in a state of civil war, and most MLK supporters were not as heavily armed as Trump supporters.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    DavidL said:

    The economics of Independence are completely unsellable at the moment, even by one of the most effective political parties in the UK. Hopefully, they will realise if it is ever going to be a reality all our politicians need to focus on rebuilding a credible and sustainable economy in Scotland. It would make a nice change after more than 25 years of obsession about constitutional matters.

    Then you are out of luck.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @mattforde: Hedge fund manager and Labour donor Martin Taylor has written an open letter to Ken Livingstone, it's impressive: https://t.co/dTPtDRJMBg
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If something untoward happens to Trump does Cruz get in ?

    Not a nice calculation, but there are betting implications.....

    Probability must be <1% though.</p>
    I'd put the probability far higher than that, remembering the violent history of American politics.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    EPG said:

    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:


    And Patrick Harvey was way, way more irritating than Rennie.

    He was spouting utter nonsense - made Lucas look vaguely sensible in comparison.....

    And thanks for confirming my guesses - glad to see more Unionists for the Tory cause!
    "Confirming" may be a bit strong, it is only my opinion. But I would like to see the Tories in Scotland rebrand themselves as the Unionist party with a CDU type relationship to the English Tories. At the moment there is too low a ceiling on what they can achieve.
    Do you think a rebranding will convince Scots to vote for Conservative governments, or do you think they don't want Conservative governments full stop? I'd go with the latter but would be willing to hear arguments for the former; I just think that ship sailed with Empire
    I think a Unionist party would provide more than 1 MP to support a Tory government as the SNP come down to earth a bit but that is not really the point. With the new devolution package more Scottish politics will be determined in Scotland than ever before and it is extremely unhealthy if that occurs in a one party state.

    It was refreshing to hear Sturgeon explaining that increasing the higher rate of tax may well reduce the tax take if just a few wealthy people move south. It is a basic piece of economics that seems to escape the Labour party. I have respect for John Swinney who is quite realistic and competent. But, as in Westminster, no government does well forever without an effective opposition challenging their thinking.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If something untoward happens to Trump does Cruz get in ?

    Not a nice calculation, but there are betting implications.....

    Probability must be <1% though.</p>
    I'd put the probability far higher than that, remembering the violent history of American politics.
    There's a serious assassination attempt about every 10 years, and one is a little overdue...
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016

    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If something untoward happens to Trump does Cruz get in ?

    Not a nice calculation, but there are betting implications.....

    Probability must be <1% though.</p>
    I'd put the probability far higher than that, remembering the violent history of American politics.
    After 8 years of Obama is Stalin and now Trump is Hitler talk, I agree.

    The only thing that kept Obama from being shot by the tea partiers in my opinion was probably the promise of his defeat by legal political means.
    I remember Gore Vidal said that he expected that Obama would be shot during his first term due to all the hatred by his opponents.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    DavidL said:

    EPG said:

    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:


    And Patrick Harvey was way, way more irritating than Rennie.

    He was spouting utter nonsense - made Lucas look vaguely sensible in comparison.....

    And thanks for confirming my guesses - glad to see more Unionists for the Tory cause!
    "Confirming" may be a bit strong, it is only my opinion. But I would like to see the Tories in Scotland rebrand themselves as the Unionist party with a CDU type relationship to the English Tories. At the moment there is too low a ceiling on what they can achieve.
    Do you think a rebranding will convince Scots to vote for Conservative governments, or do you think they don't want Conservative governments full stop? I'd go with the latter but would be willing to hear arguments for the former; I just think that ship sailed with Empire
    I think a Unionist party would provide more than 1 MP to support a Tory government as the SNP come down to earth a bit but that is not really the point. With the new devolution package more Scottish politics will be determined in Scotland than ever before and it is extremely unhealthy if that occurs in a one party state.

    It was refreshing to hear Sturgeon explaining that increasing the higher rate of tax may well reduce the tax take if just a few wealthy people move south. It is a basic piece of economics that seems to escape the Labour party. I have respect for John Swinney who is quite realistic and competent. But, as in Westminster, no government does well forever without an effective opposition challenging their thinking.
    I think if the Scottish LibDems and the Conservatives merged to become the Liberal Unionists, or somesuch, then they could be the second party in Scotland behind the SNP - picking up a bunch of seats in the Borders as well as Orkney and Shetland. I would suggest that they ran as that in General Election too.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    EPG said:

    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:


    And Patrick Harvey was way, way more irritating than Rennie.

    He was spouting utter nonsense - made Lucas look vaguely sensible in comparison.....

    And thanks for confirming my guesses - glad to see more Unionists for the Tory cause!
    "Confirming" may be a bit strong, it is only my opinion. But I would like to see the Tories in Scotland rebrand themselves as the Unionist party with a CDU type relationship to the English Tories. At the moment there is too low a ceiling on what they can achieve.
    Do you think a rebranding will convince Scots to vote for Conservative governments, or do you think they don't want Conservative governments full stop? I'd go with the latter but would be willing to hear arguments for the former; I just think that ship sailed with Empire
    I think a Unionist party would provide more than 1 MP to support a Tory government as the SNP come down to earth a bit but that is not really the point. With the new devolution package more Scottish politics will be determined in Scotland than ever before and it is extremely unhealthy if that occurs in a one party state.

    It was refreshing to hear Sturgeon explaining that increasing the higher rate of tax may well reduce the tax take if just a few wealthy people move south. It is a basic piece of economics that seems to escape the Labour party. I have respect for John Swinney who is quite realistic and competent. But, as in Westminster, no government does well forever without an effective opposition challenging their thinking.
    I think if the Scottish LibDems and the Conservatives merged to become the Liberal Unionists, or somesuch, then they could be the second party in Scotland behind the SNP - picking up a bunch of seats in the Borders as well as Orkney and Shetland. I would suggest that they ran as that in General Election too.
    I suspect that might need the disappearance of the Lib Dems in England as well. Also a lot will turn on who replaces Cameron. If the English Tories turn to the right again Davidson's revival will peter out very fast.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    DavidL said:

    EPG said:

    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:


    And Patrick Harvey was way, way more irritating than Rennie.

    He was spouting utter nonsense - made Lucas look vaguely sensible in comparison.....

    And thanks for confirming my guesses - glad to see more Unionists for the Tory cause!
    "Confirming" may be a bit strong, it is only my opinion. But I would like to see the Tories in Scotland rebrand themselves as the Unionist party with a CDU type relationship to the English Tories. At the moment there is too low a ceiling on what they can achieve.
    Do you think a rebranding will convince Scots to vote for Conservative governments, or do you think they don't want Conservative governments full stop? I'd go with the latter but would be willing to hear arguments for the former; I just think that ship sailed with Empire
    I think a Unionist party would provide more than 1 MP to support a Tory government as the SNP come down to earth a bit but that is not really the point. With the new devolution package more Scottish politics will be determined in Scotland than ever before and it is extremely unhealthy if that occurs in a one party state.

    It was refreshing to hear Sturgeon explaining that increasing the higher rate of tax may well reduce the tax take if just a few wealthy people move south. It is a basic piece of economics that seems to escape the Labour party. I have respect for John Swinney who is quite realistic and competent. But, as in Westminster, no government does well forever without an effective opposition challenging their thinking.
    Scotland looks like a one-party state at Westminster (that's what happens with a bad electoral system) but in every other regard Scotland is a proportional-representation country
    It just happens that the other major parties have chosen the same side of the important and divisive nationalism issue, and have implicitly decided to fight each other for the same voters, leaving the nationalist side clear for the SNP and a few small and very left-wing parties
    Therefore the best hope for Scottish Conservatives would be a centre-right non-Unionist party, not a centre-right Unionist party!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    EPG said:

    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:


    And Patrick Harvey was way, way more irritating than Rennie.

    He was spouting utter nonsense - made Lucas look vaguely sensible in comparison.....

    And thanks for confirming my guesses - glad to see more Unionists for the Tory cause!
    "Confirming" may be a bit strong, it is only my opinion. But I would like to see the Tories in Scotland rebrand themselves as the Unionist party with a CDU type relationship to the English Tories. At the moment there is too low a ceiling on what they can achieve.
    Do you think a rebranding will convince Scots to vote for Conservative governments, or do you think they don't want Conservative governments full stop? I'd go with the latter but would be willing to hear arguments for the former; I just think that ship sailed with Empire
    I think a Unionist party would provide more than 1 MP to support a Tory government as the SNP come down to earth a bit but that is not really the point. With the new devolution package more Scottish politics will be determined in Scotland than ever before and it is extremely unhealthy if that occurs in a one party state.

    It was refreshing to hear Sturgeon explaining that increasing the higher rate of tax may well reduce the tax take if just a few wealthy people move south. It is a basic piece of economics that seems to escape the Labour party. I have respect for John Swinney who is quite realistic and competent. But, as in Westminster, no government does well forever without an effective opposition challenging their thinking.
    I think if the Scottish LibDems and the Conservatives merged to become the Liberal Unionists, or somesuch, then they could be the second party in Scotland behind the SNP - picking up a bunch of seats in the Borders as well as Orkney and Shetland. I would suggest that they ran as that in General Election too.
    I suspect that might need the disappearance of the Lib Dems in England as well. Also a lot will turn on who replaces Cameron. If the English Tories turn to the right again Davidson's revival will peter out very fast.
    I don't think there's room for three unionist parties in Scotland. I also agree that a veer to the right in London could destroy the recent Scottish Tory surge.

    That's why I would suggest the creation of an independent Scottish centre-right party, that would broadly support Conservative administrations (like the CSU does the CDU), but would not be uncritical, and would have its own culture and traditions.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,171
    Ruth Davidson pitching for the unionist vote in a leaflet I've just received. Pointing out that both Labour and the LibDems have dropped their opposition to independence. Not a bad pitch I think.
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    NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    EPG said:

    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:


    And Patrick Harvey was way, way more irritating than Rennie.

    He was spouting utter nonsense - made Lucas look vaguely sensible in comparison.....

    And thanks for confirming my guesses - glad to see more Unionists for the Tory cause!
    "Confirming" may be a bit strong, it is only my opinion. But I would like to see the Tories in Scotland rebrand themselves as the Unionist party with a CDU type relationship to the English Tories. At the moment there is too low a ceiling on what they can achieve.
    Do you think a rebranding will convince Scots to vote for Conservative governments, or do you think they don't want Conservative governments full stop? I'd go with the latter but would be willing to hear arguments for the former; I just think that ship sailed with Empire
    I think a Unionist party would provide more than 1 MP to support a Tory government as the SNP come down to earth a bit but that is not really the point. With the new devolution package more Scottish politics will be determined in Scotland than ever before and it is extremely unhealthy if that occurs in a one party state.

    It was refreshing to hear Sturgeon explaining that increasing the higher rate of tax may well reduce the tax take if just a few wealthy people move south. It is a basic piece of economics that seems to escape the Labour party. I have respect for John Swinney who is quite realistic and competent. But, as in Westminster, no government does well forever without an effective opposition challenging their thinking.
    I think if the Scottish LibDems and the Conservatives merged to become the Liberal Unionists, or somesuch, then they could be the second party in Scotland behind the SNP - picking up a bunch of seats in the Borders as well as Orkney and Shetland. I would suggest that they ran as that in General Election too.
    I suspect that might need the disappearance of the Lib Dems in England as well. Also a lot will turn on who replaces Cameron. If the English Tories turn to the right again Davidson's revival will peter out very fast.
    I don't think there's room for three unionist parties in Scotland. I also agree that a veer to the right in London could destroy the recent Scottish Tory surge.

    That's why I would suggest the creation of an independent Scottish centre-right party, that would broadly support Conservative administrations (like the CSU does the CDU), but would not be uncritical, and would have its own culture and traditions.
    Isnt that what Murdo Fraser (?) wanted?
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    edited March 2016
    The test for "independence" of a Scottish unionist party would be if it always supports a sitting English Conservative government at the federal level, the way the CSU supports the CDU.
    Nobody is proposing that it doesn't always support the Conservatives. Oops.
    Indeed there already is a Scottish unionist party that always supports English Conservative governments but sometimes makes different noises about certain topics without undermining the main party; it's called the Scottish Conservatives
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    EPG said:

    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:


    !
    .
    I think if the Scottish LibDems and the Conservatives merged to become the Liberal Unionists, or somesuch, then they could be the second party in Scotland behind the SNP - picking up a bunch of seats in the Borders as well as Orkney and Shetland. I would suggest that they ran as that in General Election too.
    I suspect that might need the disappearance of the Lib Dems in England as well. Also a lot will turn on who replaces Cameron. If the English Tories turn to the right again Davidson's revival will peter out very fast.
    I don't think there's room for three unionist parties in Scotland. I also agree that a veer to the right in London could destroy the recent Scottish Tory surge.

    That's why I would suggest the creation of an independent Scottish centre-right party, that would broadly support Conservative administrations (like the CSU does the CDU), but would not be uncritical, and would have its own culture and traditions.
    That's what I have in mind too. And as geoffw points out the current pitch is that there are not 3 unequivocally unionist parties in Scotland. There is 1.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. W, that's surprising (Labour and Lib Dems apparently going along with independence for Scotland). Must help the blues.
This discussion has been closed.