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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump & Boris: Both blond, both born in New York and both u

SystemSystem Posts: 11,689
edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump & Boris: Both blond, both born in New York and both under-perform in the polls

There’s a interesting post tonight by Ron Faucheux on the US site The Hill highlighting the fact that in recent primaries Donald Trump has been doing worse than the polling. He writes:

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Who has bigger hands?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,811
    Donald Trump: At least I don't underperform downstairs, if you know what I mean.

    Moderator: Mr Trump, the question was about tax reform.

    Boris: What a bloviating homunculus, eh? Sic transit gloria mundy *falls off stage to audience applause*
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Awesome Mike. Peas in a pod.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,811
    kle4 said:

    Donald Trump: At least I don't under-perform downstairs, if you know what I mean.

    Moderator: Mr Trump, the question was about tax reform.

    Boris: What a bloviating homunculus, eh? Sic transit gloria mundy *falls off stage to audience applause*

    Or in other words, yes, I suppose there is a common theme in the polling point. Quite stark, that 2012 chart. Ken was not as big a problem as people thought.
  • Options
    You really enjoyed writing this Mike.

    I can tell.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    I think it's time for a true patriot to lead the USA personally, the time for fun and games are over Mr Trump.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,875
    Is Trump saying open your mouth and see if you can take my whole hand?
  • Options
    John_NJohn_N Posts: 389
    Don't you mean they overperform in the polls?
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited March 2016
    FPT (because I'm very interested to hear any pro-Kasich case):
    Pulpstar said:

    Cicero said:

    Kasich is still in the race, is polling increasingly well, and yet is still being mostly ignored. Could he pull something off in Michigan? Is there any value at the current prices? He certainly seems a bit cheap compared to a fading Rubbio or even a Trump that the RNC would love to block at the convention, or even before if possible. Thoughts?

    No value in Kasich. He's playing for a VP spot.
    Laying Kasich (for the nomination) is my main move at present. I think he has a very small chance of success and the 10/1ish odds seen today are nuts. He needs a brokered convention then the choice to light on him. I can only see that happening if there is a real surge to him in the final weeks. I don't see his chances as better than 1 in 40.

    I would be very interested to hear arguments to the contrary, of course.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    kle4 said:

    Donald Trump: At least I don't underperform downstairs, if you know what I mean.

    Moderator: Mr Trump, the question was about tax reform.

    Boris: What a bloviating homunculus, eh? Sic transit gloria mundy *falls off stage to audience applause*

    In a sense, Mr Trump was talking about his ability when it comes to the 18th-century sense of the "homunculus"
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Is Faucheux a real name ?
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    Wanderer said:

    FPT (because I'm very to hear any pro-Kasich case):

    Pulpstar said:

    Cicero said:

    Kasich is still in the race, is polling increasingly well, and yet is still being mostly ignored. Could he pull something off in Michigan? Is there any value at the current prices? He certainly seems a bit cheap compared to a fading Rubbio or even a Trump that the RNC would love to block at the convention, or even before if possible. Thoughts?

    No value in Kasich. He's playing for a VP spot.
    Laying Kasich (for the nomination) is my main move at present. I think he has a very small chance of success and the 10/1ish odds seen today are nuts. He needs a brokered convention then the choice to light on him. I can only see that happening if there is a real surge to him in the final weeks. I don't see his chances as better than 1 in 40.

    I would be very interested to hear arguments to the contrary, of course.
    I don't got a pro-Kasich case, I bought at 100/1 and sold far too early a week ago when I thought his bubble was bursting -
    but I will say that he will be so far behind Cruz in a brokered convention that it's not a credible option, unless you think Cruz will drop out -
    because even if he wins Michigan and Ohio (my indicative guess would be 2/1 at the most charitable), it's hella late for momentum and you can only assume he would win about 1/3rd of remaining delegates in a 3-man race, starting from well behind
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    I think it still makes sense to lay Boris for the leadership. He won't get into the last two unless he can persuade MPs that he is the man to entrust their destiny to and he's making a lousy job of that at the moment.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    There's no evidence Trump has underperformed the polls, aside from perhaps Kansas.

    Cruz has outperformed, by about 5 points on average.

    OGH and poll analysis has always been PB's achilles heel...
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    RodCrosby said:

    There's no evidence Trump has underperformed the polls, aside from perhaps Kansas.

    Cruz has outperformed, by about 5 points on average.

    OGH and poll analysis has always been PB's achilles heel...

    The voice of Rod.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,467
    FPT:
    SeanT said:



    Don't be stupid. It's Islam. 800 or 120 years ago it could have been Christianity.

    You need the power of a fundamentalist, revelatory religion to get this power, to harness humanity in this way. A secular political ideology (e.g. Marxism) which cannot promise salvation, purpose and an afterlife pales in comparison.

    This is why Christianity and Islam rule billions today whereas Nazism and Marxism are dead.

    Ally religion in a fascistic, growing, supremacist mood with the power of the internet and global communications and you have modern Islamism, from ISIS to Saudi to Malaysia to Rotherham.

    I'm sorry, I don't agree. You are still putting everything down to antecedents, when the majority of human behaviour is governed by consequences. In Rotherham, of course there were antecedents - perversion, religious ideology etc., but the main reason the situation developed as it did, was consequences - or in this case, the lack of consequences. These men were able to live out their sick fantasies (that probably became sicker with time), in the total absence of negative consequence. As were (incidentally) Jimmy Savile and others like him. The total lack of any check on behaviour is the common thread that links these awful stories.

    Imagine if every man over 6 ft tall, could push their shopping trolley past the till without paying and say 'fuck off I'm over 6ft tall'. Some of us would continue to pay 'because that's how we were brought up', but a large and steadily growing number of us (as we saw others) would take advantage. I'm not trying to absolve these men of their wicked crimes, but I am saying, that in a tragically ironic way, police inaction designed to preserve the status quo and sweep these incidents under the carpet actually metastasised this scandal. Crack down on these things hard and swift, and they won't happen in quantity - no-one bangs their head deliberately against a brick wall. The same goes for FGM.

    That's why I believe we need to look to ourselves in all this. 'Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for THEE BERNARD'
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    RodCrosby said:

    There's no evidence Trump has underperformed the polls, aside from perhaps Kansas.

    Cruz has outperformed, by about 5 points on average.

    OGH and poll analysis has always been PB's achilles heel...

    The voice of Rod.
    TBF I may disagree with Rod on quite a few things, but he is an excellent forecaster. I recall he even outperformed the legendary ARSE last May.

  • Options
    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    'In his last election outing, the 2012 mayoral election, every single poll over-stated his actual lead.'


    The very same pollsters that covered themselves in glory in May last year,there's a surprise.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    So difficult to decide what will happen to the Trump price in the next few hours.
    UP if he wins as expected in Michigan, I guess?
    DOWN if he does poorly in Michigan
    But is it UP or DOWN for Trump's nomination if Rubio does really poorly, and drops out before an expected humiliation in Florida? Thinking rationally, that should be worse for Trump, right? But will Joe Punter think rationally or assume that a Rubio drop-out means Trump is winning?
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    RodCrosby said:

    There's no evidence Trump has underperformed the polls, aside from perhaps Kansas.

    Cruz has outperformed, by about 5 points on average.

    OGH and poll analysis has always been PB's achilles heel...

    Rod, are you still confident of a Trump win in November? Obviously the market has backed off from Trump quite a bit since Super Tuesday. Are we all fools?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,215

    FPT:

    SeanT said:



    Don't be stupid. It's Islam. 800 or 120 years ago it could have been Christianity.

    You need the power of a fundamentalist, revelatory religion to get this power, to harness humanity in this way. A secular political ideology (e.g. Marxism) which cannot promise salvation, purpose and an afterlife pales in comparison.

    This is why Christianity and Islam rule billions today whereas Nazism and Marxism are dead.

    Ally religion in a fascistic, growing, supremacist mood with the power of the internet and global communications and you have modern Islamism, from ISIS to Saudi to Malaysia to Rotherham.

    I'm sorry, I don't agree. You are still putting everything down to antecedents, when the majority of human behaviour is governed by consequences. In Rotherham, of course there were antecedents - perversion, religious ideology etc., but the main reason the situation developed as it did, was consequences - or in this case, the lack of consequences. These men were able to live out their sick fantasies (that probably became sicker with time), in the total absence of negative consequence. As were (incidentally) Jimmy Savile and others like him. The total lack of any check on behaviour is the common thread that links these awful stories.

    Imagine if every man over 6 ft tall, could push their shopping trolley past the till without paying and say 'fuck off I'm over 6ft tall'. Some of us would continue to pay 'because that's how we were brought up', but a large and steadily growing number of us (as we saw others) would take advantage. I'm not trying to absolve these men of their wicked crimes, but I am saying, that in a tragically ironic way, police inaction designed to preserve the status quo and sweep these incidents under the carpet actually metastasised this scandal. Crack down on these things hard and swift, and they won't happen in quantity - no-one bangs their head deliberately against a brick wall. The same goes for FGM.

    That's why I believe we need to look to ourselves in all this. 'Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for THEE BERNARD'
    Both are true, no? There are reasons why some people may do bad things. If they do them and get away with them then they will carry on doing them and others will join them.

    As true in banking as in Rotherham or Cologne, even if the reasons why some bankers thought their behaviour acceptable and some Muslim men thought their behaviour acceptable were different.

    Either way you need to enforce consequences consistently and you need to change the culture which allows the behaviour to take root and spread. The latter is much much harder than the former, of course.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Both blond both born in New York and both under perform in the polls.....

    ..... and both twats
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,215
    Roger said:

    Both blond both born in New York and both under perform in the polls.....

    ..... and both twats

    And one has been elected twice to be Mayor of London and has twice become an MP whereas the other, so far, hasn't been elected to any office. So one may be a twat, but has been rather more successfully electorally than the other.

  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,467
    Cyclefree said:



    Both are true, no? There are reasons why some people may do bad things. If they do them and get away with them then they will carry on doing them and others will join them.

    As true in banking as in Rotherham or Cologne, even if the reasons why some bankers thought their behaviour acceptable and some Muslim men thought their behaviour acceptable were different.

    Either way you need to enforce consequences consistently and you need to change the culture which allows the behaviour to take root and spread. The latter is much much harder than the former, of course.

    Yes, both are true. And yes, banking is another very good example. My point is one cannot declare that large scale Muslim immigration is impossible to square with UK values, when one has made no attempt to enforce those values, even when transgression of them breaks the laws of the land.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Both blond both born in New York and both under perform in the polls.....

    ..... and both twats

    And one has been elected twice to be Mayor of London and has twice become an MP whereas the other, so far, hasn't been elected to any office. So one may be a twat, but has been rather more successfully electorally than the other.

    You can't be successful or not until you run.

    And Trump's now running...
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Both blond both born in New York and both under perform in the polls.....

    ..... and both twats

    And one has been elected twice to be Mayor of London and has twice become an MP whereas the other, so far, hasn't been elected to any office. So one may be a twat, but has been rather more successfully electorally than the other.

    True I suppose but couldn't the same be said for Ken Livingstone and even Corbyn-several election victories and leader of the opposition? If election victories absolved anyone from being a twat how could we explain Michael Fabricant?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,215

    Cyclefree said:



    Both are true, no? There are reasons why some people may do bad things. If they do them and get away with them then they will carry on doing them and others will join them.

    As true in banking as in Rotherham or Cologne, even if the reasons why some bankers thought their behaviour acceptable and some Muslim men thought their behaviour acceptable were different.

    Either way you need to enforce consequences consistently and you need to change the culture which allows the behaviour to take root and spread. The latter is much much harder than the former, of course.

    Yes, both are true. And yes, banking is another very good example. My point is one cannot declare that large scale Muslim immigration is impossible to square with UK values, when one has made no attempt to enforce those values, even when transgression of them breaks the laws of the land.
    Maybe. But even if there were the willingness to enforce our values, I wonder whether there is the patience to wait and see whether this will be effective while at the same time continuing to permit further Muslim immigration. At some point, size matters. Not just in terms of resistance to integration or no longer needing to but also electorally. I don't, for instance, feel that Corbyn's Labour would be willing to take action against those Muslims who act contrary to British laws and values or otherwise behave in ways which we find repellent.

    Sometimes when you are seeking to make culture change you need also to take a pause from other change in order to stabilise the situation. You cannot have everything changing at once.



  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,875
    BBC set for war with Tory Government over latest budget raid

    Titter BBC Tory toadying not really paying dividends.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-set-war-tory-government-7519398
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,215
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Both blond both born in New York and both under perform in the polls.....

    ..... and both twats

    And one has been elected twice to be Mayor of London and has twice become an MP whereas the other, so far, hasn't been elected to any office. So one may be a twat, but has been rather more successfully electorally than the other.

    True I suppose but couldn't the same be said for Ken Livingstone and even Corbyn-several election victories and leader of the opposition? If election victories absolved anyone from being a twat how could we explain Michael Fabricant?
    Well I wasn't absolving BJ from being a twat, as my post made clear.

    There are plenty of idiots in Westminster. As Gore Vidal once said, even idiots deserve representation.

  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Former St Helens North MP, John Evans, Lord Evans has died aged 85.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    BBC set for war with Tory Government over latest budget raid

    Titter BBC Tory toadying not really paying dividends.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-set-war-tory-government-7519398

    "It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."

    Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian
  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    BBC set for war with Tory Government over latest budget raid

    Titter BBC Tory toadying not really paying dividends.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-set-war-tory-government-7519398

    "It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."

    Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian
    I think it's hilarious.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct

    Melvyn Bragg suggested something like that years ago
  • Options
    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    BBC set for war with Tory Government over latest budget raid

    Titter BBC Tory toadying not really paying dividends.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-set-war-tory-government-7519398

    "It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."

    Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian
    It's not the cash, it's the loss of control they object to.
  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    "It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."

    Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian

    Excellent idea.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,322

    FPT:

    SeanT said:



    Don't be stupid. It's Islam. 800 or 120 years ago it could have been Christianity.

    You need the power of a fundamentalist, revelatory religion to get this power, to harness humanity in this way. A secular political ideology (e.g. Marxism) which cannot promise salvation, purpose and an afterlife pales in comparison.

    This is why Christianity and Islam rule billions today whereas Nazism and Marxism are dead.

    Ally religion in a fascistic, growing, supremacist mood with the power of the internet and global communications and you have modern Islamism, from ISIS to Saudi to Malaysia to Rotherham.

    I'm sorry, I don't agree. You are still putting everything down to antecedents, when the majority of human behaviour is governed by consequences. In Rotherham, of course there were antecedents - perversion, religious ideology etc., but the main reason the situation developed as it did, was consequences - or in this case, the lack of consequences. These men were able to live out their sick fantasies (that probably became sicker with time), in the total absence of negative consequence. As were (incidentally) Jimmy Savile and others like him. The total lack of any check on behaviour is the common thread that links these awful stories.

    Imagine if every man over 6 ft tall, could push their shopping trolley past the till without paying and say 'fuck off I'm over 6ft tall'. Some of us would continue to pay 'because that's how we were brought up', but a large and steadily growing number of us (as we saw others) would take advantage. I'm not trying to absolve these men of their wicked crimes, but I am saying, that in a tragically ironic way, police inaction designed to preserve the status quo and sweep these incidents under the carpet actually metastasised this scandal. Crack down on these things hard and swift, and they won't happen in quantity - no-one bangs their head deliberately against a brick wall. The same goes for FGM.

    That's why I believe we need to look to ourselves in all this. 'Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for THEE BERNARD'
    Really good post.
  • Options
    Where can we see the results of the US primary elections quickly please?
    I know some kind soul posted a link to a very good website a week or two ago but I have lost it.
    I have a terrible book for the Republican primary and not much better for the Presidential and I really need to know when to cut my losses to save a little bit of money as we have a baby due any day.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Are we quite sure that Donald Trump is blond?

    We could launch an expedition to settle this along with the Paddy Power pecker punt.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016

    Where can we see the results of the US primary elections quickly please?
    I know some kind soul posted a link to a very good website a week or two ago but I have lost it.
    I have a terrible book for the Republican primary and not much better for the Presidential and I really need to know when to cut my losses to save a little bit of money as we have a baby due any day.

    You have to wait for the polls to close first.
    Less than 4 hours now.

    For the very first results go to Decision Desk HQ, but beware their accuracy is not great, writing down results on paper from the phone as fast as you can to beat the AP wire can result in mistakes:

    http://www.decisiondeskhq.com/

    Or else try CNN, they are slower but accurate:

    http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/mi/
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,467
    DavidL said:

    FPT:

    SeanT said:



    Don't be stupid. It's Islam. 800 or 120 years ago it could have been Christianity.

    You need the power of a fundamentalist, revelatory religion to get this power, to harness humanity in this way. A secular political ideology (e.g. Marxism) which cannot promise salvation, purpose and an afterlife pales in comparison.

    This is why Christianity and Islam rule billions today whereas Nazism and Marxism are dead.

    Ally religion in a fascistic, growing, supremacist mood with the power of the internet and global communications and you have modern Islamism, from ISIS to Saudi to Malaysia to Rotherham.

    I'm sorry, I don't agree. You are still putting everything down to antecedents, when the majority of human behaviour is governed by consequences. In Rotherham, of course there were antecedents - perversion, religious ideology etc., but the main reason the situation developed as it did, was consequences - or in this case, the lack of consequences. These men were able to live out their sick fantasies (that probably became sicker with time), in the total absence of negative consequence. As were (incidentally) Jimmy Savile and others like him. The total lack of any check on behaviour is the common thread that links these awful stories.

    Imagine if every man over 6 ft tall, could push their shopping trolley past the till without paying and say 'fuck off I'm over 6ft tall'. Some of us would continue to pay 'because that's how we were brought up', but a large and steadily growing number of us (as we saw others) would take advantage. I'm not trying to absolve these men of their wicked crimes, but I am saying, that in a tragically ironic way, police inaction designed to preserve the status quo and sweep these incidents under the carpet actually metastasised this scandal. Crack down on these things hard and swift, and they won't happen in quantity - no-one bangs their head deliberately against a brick wall. The same goes for FGM.

    That's why I believe we need to look to ourselves in all this. 'Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for THEE BERNARD'
    Really good post.
    Thanks, I appreciate that.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,322

    "It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."

    Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian

    Excellent idea.
    Hmm... So we can have another bunch of grossly overpaid Tristrams deciding at exhorbitant public expense which art project public money should be spent on? Call me unconvinced.
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    Where can we see the results of the US primary elections quickly please?
    I know some kind soul posted a link to a very good website a week or two ago but I have lost it.
    I have a terrible book for the Republican primary and not much better for the Presidential and I really need to know when to cut my losses to save a little bit of money as we have a baby due any day.

    You have to wait for the polls to close first.
    Less than 4 hours now.

    For the very first results go to Decision Desk HQ, but beware their accuracy is not great, writing down results on paper from the phone as fast as you can to beat the AP wire can result in mistakes:

    http://www.decisiondeskhq.com/

    Or else try CNN, they are slower but accurate:

    http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/mi/
    You are a star Speedy. And I really appreciate your commentaries. And your views.
  • Options

    Speedy said:

    Where can we see the results of the US primary elections quickly please?
    I know some kind soul posted a link to a very good website a week or two ago but I have lost it.
    I have a terrible book for the Republican primary and not much better for the Presidential and I really need to know when to cut my losses to save a little bit of money as we have a baby due any day.

    You have to wait for the polls to close first.
    Less than 4 hours now.

    For the very first results go to Decision Desk HQ, but beware their accuracy is not great, writing down results on paper from the phone as fast as you can to beat the AP wire can result in mistakes:

    http://www.decisiondeskhq.com/

    Or else try CNN, they are slower but accurate:

    http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/mi/
    You are a star Speedy. And I really appreciate your commentaries. And your views.
    And my English teacher said never to start a sentence with "and".
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Are we quite sure that Donald Trump is blond?

    We could launch an expedition to settle this along with the Paddy Power pecker punt.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sarahburton/mind-if-i-comb-over#.qrrB8WDBAz

    His hair was originally light brown.
    His kids from Ivana (she is blond) also betray the original hair colour of the father.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    kle4 said:

    Donald Trump: At least I don't underperform downstairs, if you know what I mean.

    Moderator: Mr Trump, the question was about tax reform.

    Boris: What a bloviating homunculus, eh? Sic transit gloria mundy *falls off stage to audience applause*

    lol!
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Where can we see the results of the US primary elections quickly please?
    I know some kind soul posted a link to a very good website a week or two ago but I have lost it.
    I have a terrible book for the Republican primary and not much better for the Presidential and I really need to know when to cut my losses to save a little bit of money as we have a baby due any day.

    AceOfSpades run a really rapid Decision Desk based on volunteers on location reporting in live.

    It's always been one of the fastest and most accurate sources of early information on the web. Beats the MSM hands down. Not sure if the tone of the site will suit you? It's perfect for me .... a mixture of rightist Republicans, Tea Partiers and libertarians.


    http://ace.mu.nu/
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    Are we quite sure that Donald Trump is blond?

    We could launch an expedition to settle this along with the Paddy Power pecker punt.

    For all we know, the Donald could be bald.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    DavidL said:

    "It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."

    Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian

    Excellent idea.
    Hmm... So we can have another bunch of grossly overpaid Tristrams deciding at exhorbitant public expense which art project public money should be spent on? Call me unconvinced.
    We already have that. The idea is to give them some competition.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Speedy said:

    Are we quite sure that Donald Trump is blond?

    We could launch an expedition to settle this along with the Paddy Power pecker punt.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sarahburton/mind-if-i-comb-over#.qrrB8WDBAz

    His hair was originally light brown.
    His kids from Ivana (she is blond) also betray the original hair colour of the father.
    One more example of pb's unparalleled political resource base.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Looks like Trump and Cruz each lose a delegate in OK, going to Unbound...
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,467
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Both are true, no? There are reasons why some people may do bad things. If they do them and get away with them then they will carry on doing them and others will join them.

    As true in banking as in Rotherham or Cologne, even if the reasons why some bankers thought their behaviour acceptable and some Muslim men thought their behaviour acceptable were different.

    Either way you need to enforce consequences consistently and you need to change the culture which allows the behaviour to take root and spread. The latter is much much harder than the former, of course.

    Yes, both are true. And yes, banking is another very good example. My point is one cannot declare that large scale Muslim immigration is impossible to square with UK values, when one has made no attempt to enforce those values, even when transgression of them breaks the laws of the land.
    Maybe. But even if there were the willingness to enforce our values, I wonder whether there is the patience to wait and see whether this will be effective while at the same time continuing to permit further Muslim immigration. At some point, size matters. Not just in terms of resistance to integration or no longer needing to but also electorally. I don't, for instance, feel that Corbyn's Labour would be willing to take action against those Muslims who act contrary to British laws and values or otherwise behave in ways which we find repellent.

    Sometimes when you are seeking to make culture change you need also to take a pause from other change in order to stabilise the situation. You cannot have everything changing at once.
    Muslims or no Muslims, we'd better be ready to enforce consequences, because the story of the London riots is just the same. These people were quoted as saying 'People need to understand, we can do what we like'. I do not regard the rioters, or Muslims, or anyone else, to be uniquely awful. But all of us are capable of awful behaviour if the consequences of that behaviour are more favourable than unfavourable.

    To bring in our earlier discussion, it is not the disease specifically that we need worry about, but the health of the immune system to fight it. Somehow reducing numbers of Muslims (not even sure how that could even be achieved) is like wearing a mask on the tube. It might 'work' in a way, but does not address the long term health of the patient.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Overrated, overpaid and over here?

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    RodCrosby said:

    Looks like Trump and Cruz each lose a delegate in OK, going to Unbound...

    Rod, there seem to be quite a few of these. LA I think a delegate moved about or so. Is this normal process or an attempt at a background stitch up ?
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    RodCrosby said:

    Looks like Trump and Cruz each lose a delegate in OK, going to Unbound...

    The GOP messing with the rules again ?

    If Romney had stayed silent no one would have known what the ultimate goal of the establishment was before it was too late, though there were plenty of hints before hand.
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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited March 2016
    kle4 said:

    Donald Trump: At least I don't underperform downstairs, if you know what I mean.

    Moderator: Mr Trump, the question was about tax reform.

    Boris: What a bloviating homunculus, eh? Sic transit gloria mundy *falls off stage to audience applause*

    That is fabulous.

    What with PM Boris and President Trump (or not, as OGH sagely divines) it's like us Atlanticists are trying to get one back over Italy for Berlusconi.

    Ireland should join in. None of their politicians seem particularly keen to run the country, don't they have a standby 'sleb they could pass the buck (or euro) to?
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    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Bit like James II, who was intercepted by some Kent fisherman and brought back to London.. William of Orange's men had to send him off again, with a guard to make sure he got to France safely!
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Boris lacks Trumps modesty.
  • Options
    13 or more hours after Boris killed off that email memo, the BBC is still reporting it as a news story......
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    13 or more hours after Boris killed off that email memo, the BBC is still reporting it as a news story......

    John Longworth is still on the broadcast media 3 days after his suspension/resignation
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    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    Are insurance clerks regarded as "bankers" now?
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,467

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.

    Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
  • Options

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.

    Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
    I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remain
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,811

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    Are insurance clerks regarded as "bankers" now?
    For 'bankers' read anyone involved in what might be considered, by normal people, as large and/or complex finance. Perhaps it is not fair, but I imagine, yes, they would be regarded as bankers.
  • Options

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    Are insurance clerks regarded as "bankers" now?
    Sorry Finance Industry to be correct
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.

    Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
    I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remain

    Propaganda usually is.

  • Options

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.

    Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
    I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remain

    Propaganda usually is.

    Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord Lawson
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,322

    DavidL said:

    "It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."

    Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian

    Excellent idea.
    Hmm... So we can have another bunch of grossly overpaid Tristrams deciding at exhorbitant public expense which art project public money should be spent on? Call me unconvinced.
    We already have that. The idea is to give them some competition.
    Multiplication or extermination? I know which side my money's on.
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    kle4 said:

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    Are insurance clerks regarded as "bankers" now?
    For 'bankers' read anyone involved in what might be considered, by normal people, as large and/or complex finance. Perhaps it is not fair, but I imagine, yes, they would be regarded as bankers.
    OK thanks for the clarification. It's just that if it is pejorative term used then it should be used with caution and if it is a descriptive term then it is not very specific.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    The UK isn't engaged with the EU referendum.

    They will think about it in June, subject to the football staying out of the way.
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    pinkrosepinkrose Posts: 189
    Islam has nothing to do with the grooming gangs that have been happening in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Oxford etc etc

    I cannot understand how anyone arrives at the conclusion that Salafi/Wahabbi/ISIS type Muslims are in anyway the same as these vile creatures who exploited mainly white children for sex. They are chalk and cheese. Exact opposites.

    ISIS/Salafi/Wahabbi types and their sympthasisers are ultra conservative, puritanical, practising Muslims who would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK and all over the world, indeed that is what the ISIS are currently fighting for. Those who have been convicted of child grooming and exploitation are non practising Muslims who are as far removed from the ISIS types as you can get. Under ISIS rule those men in Rotherham etc would've been stoned to death, according to the hudd (penal code) of Sharia that they are currently busily implementing.

  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Looks like Trump and Cruz each lose a delegate in OK, going to Unbound...

    Rod, there seem to be quite a few of these. LA I think a delegate moved about or so. Is this normal process or an attempt at a background stitch up ?
    It's a normal process, especially on the GOP side, and certainly happened last time. States rules are badly drafted and ambiguous, almost exclusively in relation to the rounding. However, this should result in a change of no more than +/-1 from initial projections for any candidate.

    At the last minute the RNC appears also to have outlawed superdelegates this year.

    And at least two states (at this juncture) will have no primary or caucus, and their delegates will be presumably unbound.

    I still can't get my head around LA though, and no figures have been provided to show why Rubio with 11% statewide obtained 28% of the CD delegates.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.

    Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
    I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remain

    Propaganda usually is.

    Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord Lawson

    Shame Carney didn't provide the pros and cons, and the long-term risks of QMV voting by the Eurozone applying rules to us that are damaging. I suppose some people might be angry that an "independent" person showed little balance to his views.

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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.

    Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
    I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remain

    Propaganda usually is.

    Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord Lawson
    They only need to quote Mervyn King in the response, it's never difficult to repel a Remain claim.

    Carney is ex Goldman Sachs, enough said.
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    This has been a poor fortnight for Remain with serialization of Mervyn King's book predicting the implosion of the Eurozone, the UK's payment to the 6 billion euros bribe to Turkey rising to £500 millions, and migrant camps in Greece being splashed on the ITV News most nights .... and, still, Yvette Cooper has not taken in the refugee she promised during the Labour leadership campaign (deterred apparently because it was not wanted by the Conservative government!) ...
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,811

    kle4 said:

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    Are insurance clerks regarded as "bankers" now?
    For 'bankers' read anyone involved in what might be considered, by normal people, as large and/or complex finance. Perhaps it is not fair, but I imagine, yes, they would be regarded as bankers.
    OK thanks for the clarification. It's just that if it is pejorative term used then it should be used with caution and if it is a descriptive term then it is not very specific.
    It's a fair point - I imagine non-bankers involved in finance are not particularly happy being associated with the general poor reputation of the banking industry. Or if they are even worse, grateful for the cover I suppose!
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    pinkrose said:

    Islam has nothing to do with the grooming gangs that have been happening in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Oxford etc etc

    I cannot understand how anyone arrives at the conclusion that Salafi/Wahabbi/ISIS type Muslims are in anyway the same as these vile creatures who exploited mainly white children for sex. They are chalk and cheese. Exact opposites.

    ISIS/Salafi/Wahabbi types and their sympthasisers are ultra conservative, puritanical, practising Muslims who would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK and all over the world, indeed that is what the ISIS are currently fighting for. Those who have been convicted of child grooming and exploitation are non practising Muslims who are as far removed from the ISIS types as you can get. Under ISIS rule those men in Rotherham etc would've been stoned to death, according to the hudd (penal code) of Sharia that they are currently busily implementing.

    I'm sure the Yazidi, women will be pleased to hear that.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    pinkrose said:

    Islam has nothing to do with the grooming gangs that have been happening in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Oxford etc etc

    I cannot understand how anyone arrives at the conclusion that Salafi/Wahabbi/ISIS type Muslims are in anyway the same as these vile creatures who exploited mainly white children for sex. They are chalk and cheese. Exact opposites.

    ISIS/Salafi/Wahabbi types and their sympthasisers are ultra conservative, puritanical, practising Muslims who would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK and all over the world, indeed that is what the ISIS are currently fighting for. Those who have been convicted of child grooming and exploitation are non practising Muslims who are as far removed from the ISIS types as you can get. Under ISIS rule those men in Rotherham etc would've been stoned to death, according to the hudd (penal code) of Sharia that they are currently busily implementing.

    Are you saying ISIS have never raped anyone?
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    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.

    Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
    I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remain

    Propaganda usually is.

    Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord Lawson
    They only need to quote Mervyn King in the response, it's never difficult to repel a Remain claim.

    Carney is ex Goldman Sachs, enough said.
    I don't think many will know who Mervyn King is but they will recognise the designation of the current Governor of the Bank of England
  • Options
    pinkrose said:

    Islam has nothing to do with the grooming gangs that have been happening in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Oxford etc etc

    I cannot understand how anyone arrives at the conclusion that Salafi/Wahabbi/ISIS type Muslims are in anyway the same as these vile creatures who exploited mainly white children for sex. They are chalk and cheese. Exact opposites.

    ISIS/Salafi/Wahabbi types and their sympthasisers are ultra conservative, puritanical, practising Muslims who would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK and all over the world, indeed that is what the ISIS are currently fighting for. Those who have been convicted of child grooming and exploitation are non practising Muslims who are as far removed from the ISIS types as you can get. Under ISIS rule those men in Rotherham etc would've been stoned to death, according to the hudd (penal code) of Sharia that they are currently busily implementing.

    Thanks for that. So they are decent chaps after all. I have no particular objection to the stoning of child rapists, other than the general objections that I have to the death penalty:
    a) That if new evidence comes to light that would lead to a successful appeal it would be too late
    b) That to allow a proper system of justice for death penalty cases is not feasible within our legal aid budget., as it is incredibly expensive.
  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.

    Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
    I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remain

    Propaganda usually is.

    Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord Lawson
    They only need to quote Mervyn King in the response, it's never difficult to repel a Remain claim.

    Carney is ex Goldman Sachs, enough said.
    I don't think many will know who Mervyn King is but they will recognise the designation of the current Governor of the Bank of England
    Utter rot.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said
    'There will not be a next time if Remain win comfortably, Leave at least need to make it close (which I still think it will be no matter how inept their campaign) '

    There can always be a next time even if it takes another 41 years to get there. Even a repeat of the 2 to 1 In vote achieved in 1975 would not prevent demands for another vote if events subsequently lead to claims that the British people had been conned by the Remain campaign. It really would not take much for UKIP and Tory Eurosceptics to start shouting 'We told you so!'. At the end of the day , there is no reason at all why the 2016 vote should prove any more final than its 1975 predecessor.
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited March 2016
    pinkrose said:

    Islam has nothing to do with the grooming gangs that have been happening in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Oxford etc etc

    I cannot understand how anyone arrives at the conclusion that Salafi/Wahabbi/ISIS type Muslims are in anyway the same as these vile creatures who exploited mainly white children for sex. They are chalk and cheese. Exact opposites.

    ISIS/Salafi/Wahabbi types and their sympthasisers are ultra conservative, puritanical, practising Muslims who would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK and all over the world, indeed that is what the ISIS are currently fighting for. Those who have been convicted of child grooming and exploitation are non practising Muslims who are as far removed from the ISIS types as you can get. Under ISIS rule those men in Rotherham etc would've been stoned to death, according to the hudd (penal code) of Sharia that they are currently busily implementing.

    What a crock of shit.

    ISIS are a bunch of garden rapists. They've raped their way through Kobane and juat about every other captured town in Syria and Iraq. They even rape children and keep them as sex slaves.

    Puritanical my arse. More like disaffected, unemployable bullies who only act under the banner of religion because it gives them impunity from arreat and an opportunity to exercise their sexual and twisted fantasies. Absolute scum.

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    pinkrose said:

    Islam has nothing to do with the grooming gangs that have been happening in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Oxford etc etc

    I cannot understand how anyone arrives at the conclusion that Salafi/Wahabbi/ISIS type Muslims are in anyway the same as these vile creatures who exploited mainly white children for sex. They are chalk and cheese. Exact opposites.

    ISIS/Salafi/Wahabbi types and their sympthasisers are ultra conservative, puritanical, practising Muslims who would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK and all over the world, indeed that is what the ISIS are currently fighting for. Those who have been convicted of child grooming and exploitation are non practising Muslims who are as far removed from the ISIS types as you can get. Under ISIS rule those men in Rotherham etc would've been stoned to death, according to the hudd (penal code) of Sharia that they are currently busily implementing.

    Yes, all wives and daughters have been perfectly safe in ISIS territory .... ding-dong ....
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    This has been a poor fortnight for Remain with serialization of Mervyn King's book predicting the implosion of the Eurozone, the UK's payment to the 6 billion euros bribe to Turkey rising to £500 millions, and migrant camps in Greece being splashed on the ITV News most nights .... and, still, Yvette Cooper has not taken in the refugee she promised during the Labour leadership campaign (deterred apparently because it was not wanted by the Conservative government!) ...

    I do not agree at all - leave have no narrative of what happens on the 24th June and are morphing into their own "Project Fear' with the migrant crisis. Indeed this crisis may not be all it is made out to be for leave if they come over as non compassionate, non caring and want to close our borders
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,811
    A heated discussion on Islam?!

    Good night everybody.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited March 2016

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.

    Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
    I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remain

    Propaganda usually is.

    Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord Lawson
    They only need to quote Mervyn King in the response, it's never difficult to repel a Remain claim.

    Carney is ex Goldman Sachs, enough said.
    I don't think many will know who Mervyn King is but they will recognise the designation of the current Governor of the Bank of England
    Utter rot.
    I doubt the average man or woman on the street has a clue who Mark Carney is. Most will simply see a rich 'American' financier in an expensive suit telling them to vote to stay in the EU, ask themselves why, and choose accordingly.

    Next to politicians, bankers remain some of the least popular people in the UK. Best to stay in the shadows.
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    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.

    Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
    I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remain

    Propaganda usually is.

    Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord Lawson

    Shame Carney didn't provide the pros and cons, and the long-term risks of QMV voting by the Eurozone applying rules to us that are damaging. I suppose some people might be angry that an "independent" person showed little balance to his views.

    True. It was the BS that the Bank was neutral that annoyed me. But, maybe having been challenged in this way he may just shut the eff up for the next few months. The Mervyn quotes are more than adequate to give a contrasting view. Odd that the BBC and Peston on ITV news seem unaware of what Mervyn said....
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    First exit poll leaks.

    3 in 4 support the muslim ban in Mississippi. 6 out of 10 in Michigan.
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    This has been a poor fortnight for Remain with serialization of Mervyn King's book predicting the implosion of the Eurozone, the UK's payment to the 6 billion euros bribe to Turkey rising to £500 millions, and migrant camps in Greece being splashed on the ITV News most nights .... and, still, Yvette Cooper has not taken in the refugee she promised during the Labour leadership campaign (deterred apparently because it was not wanted by the Conservative government!) ...

    I do not agree at all - leave have no narrative of what happens on the 24th June and are morphing into their own "Project Fear' with the migrant crisis. Indeed this crisis may not be all it is made out to be for leave if they come over as non compassionate, non caring and want to close our borders
    I love it when you come over all compassionate and caring ... Like these:

    It was six months ago this week when Nicola Sturgeon heroically admitted she’d be ‘happy’ to have a refugee move into her detached Glasgow home. That same rousing week last September, we were treated to the vision of Yvette Cooper ‘bravely’ holding up a piece of A4 paper with #refugeeswelcome scrawled on it.

    As he’s wont to do, Bob Geldof went one further, offering to put up three families in his pile in Kent and another in his London flat. Yet, to date, it seems that not a single refugee has been welcomed through the Chunnel and made it to Nicola’s nest, Casa Cooper or either of Geldoff’s gaffs.


    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/welcome-to-luvvie-island-a-haven-for-virtue-signalling-celebrities/
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    I'm curious why OGH refers regularly to the 2012 election and not the 2008 election result and opinion polls which we also have information to.

    First Preference share in final polls:
    YouGov: Johnson 43, Livingstone 36 (lead 7)
    mruk: Johnson 43, Livingstone 44 (lead -1)
    Ipsos MORI: Johnson 38, Livingstone 41 (lead -3)
    ICM: Johnson 42. Livingstone 41 (lead 1)

    Actual result: Johnson 43.2, Livingstone 37.0 (lead 6.2)

    Apart from YouGov which was a rounding error from absolutely perfect, all other polls overestimated Livingstone significantly, two underestimate Johnson and they all underestimated Johsnon's lead.

    Kind of throws a spanner in the works of OGH's theory which is probably why this incovenient fact is just ignored rather than used as further evidence of the meme. "Johnson underperforms" seems to be the new "Labour crutch" meme here.
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    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.

    Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
    I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remain

    Propaganda usually is.

    Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord Lawson
    They only need to quote Mervyn King in the response, it's never difficult to repel a Remain claim.

    Carney is ex Goldman Sachs, enough said.
    I don't think many will know who Mervyn King is but they will recognise the designation of the current Governor of the Bank of England
    Utter rot.
    Outside this forum and the Westminster Village among the day to day people who will have the deciding say it is not utter rot by any means. If you went to most any pub or football match and referred to Mervyn King they would probably want to know which team he played for
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    valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 605

    True. It was the BS that the Bank was neutral that annoyed me. But, maybe having been challenged in this way he may just shut the eff up for the next few months. The Mervyn quotes are more than adequate to give a contrasting view. Odd that the BBC and Peston on ITV news seem unaware of what Mervyn said....


    I've listened to two longish interviews on the BBC radio with King over the last few days. Dont think he got off the fence once. His backside must be very sore. Not impressed.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016
    More from the exit polls:

    Mississippi 44% angry, 43% dissatisfied

    Michigan: 32% angry, 55% dissatisfied

    Mississippi: 76% evangelicals

    Michigan: 49% evangelicals


    Mississippi looks more like S.Carolina, Michigan more like Virginia.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Speedy said:

    First exit poll leaks.

    3 in 4 support the muslim ban in Mississippi. 6 out of 10 in Michigan.

    unsurprising, breaks largely for Trump/Cruz
  • Options

    On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.

    Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier today
    I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.

    Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
    I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remain

    Propaganda usually is.

    Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord Lawson

    Shame Carney didn't provide the pros and cons, and the long-term risks of QMV voting by the Eurozone applying rules to us that are damaging. I suppose some people might be angry that an "independent" person showed little balance to his views.

    True. It was the BS that the Bank was neutral that annoyed me. But, maybe having been challenged in this way he may just shut the eff up for the next few months. The Mervyn quotes are more than adequate to give a contrasting view. Odd that the BBC and Peston on ITV news seem unaware of what Mervyn said....
    Listened to Mervyn King on Hard Talk tonight and he was as neutral as anyone I have heard
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016
    Michigan
    Shares my values in the 30's
    Tells it like it is 24
    Change 28
    Can win in november 12

    37 late deciders
    63 early deciders.

    Look's like Trump will be in the 30's, perhaps high 30's.
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    John_NJohn_N Posts: 389
    In the last 5 days there's been a clear trend in the Leave and Remain prices on the Betfair exchange market. The implied probability of a Leave win has gone up from 25% to 30%:

    Graph.

This discussion has been closed.