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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Cruz wins the most delegates tonight but it looks like toni

SystemSystem Posts: 12,032
edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Cruz wins the most delegates tonight but it looks like tonight was goodnight Rubio Saturday

Summary of tonight's results. GOP: 2 states apiece for Trump & Cruz. Cruz gets the most delegates. pic.twitter.com/1qPi0H2Lt0

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?
  • The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Correct, I really hate writing threads at 6.30am.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    The moral of the night is not to be too @Speedy about assumptions based one one debate or results in caucus states.

    Cruz has enjoyed another moment in the sun but the delegate rich winner takes all state doomsday approaches and Trump will crush Cruz there.

    On the Dem side the narrative remains the same. Clinton cruising to a comfortable win with Sanders picking up morale boosting but effectively inconsequential wins.

    Clinton v Trump in November and a comfortable win for Hillary.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Back home, the government has apparently declared war on exclamation marks.

    From the BBC's round-up of the papers (because I don't get the ST):

    Cripes! No exclamation allowed!
    According to the Sunday Times, "teachers are up in arms" because ministers want to cut use of the punctuation mark and this is reflected in the latest guidance for schools. "Sentences ending with an exclamation mark can be marked correct only if they begin with 'How' or 'What'," the paper says.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,729

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
  • Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    Before we get to thinking that US politics is trivial, we should perhaps consider whether Trump could shag a dead pig...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,293
    FPT:

    Driverless lorries.

    AIUI (and I might be wrong), if it's like the German scheme, then there will be drivers in each lorry. It's just that when they're on that stretch of motorway they won't be driven by the drivers. And it's a short stretch of motorway with very specific (and simple) conditions.

    The advantage is that when you get lorries drafting each other then fuel efficiency increases significantly - lorry drivers do this to a certain extent atm, but not as close as an automated system can.

    The disadvantage is obvious: drivers trying to join the motorway finding the sliproad blocked by many lorries in a solid queue, and cars passing the lorries wanting to exit at a sliproad cannot get between them. Both problems can be fixed by an 'intelligent' system on the lorries, and better driving skills by car drivers. Which means the disadvantages are still there ...

    I think such a system was tried in Germany in the 1970s with cars. Motorway driving is the simplest automation to do, and orders of magnitude simpler than urban driving. It'll also be interesting to see how the system copes with the sometimes severe weather you get on that particular stretch of motorway.

    The day of automated cars for everyone is still many years away. What we are getting at the moment is very clever smoke and mirrors.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    Before we get to thinking that US politics is trivial, we should perhaps consider whether Trump could shag a dead pig...
    With or without lipstick ... the pig that is .... :smile:
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,352

    Back home, the government has apparently declared war on exclamation marks.

    From the BBC's round-up of the papers (because I don't get the ST):

    Cripes! No exclamation allowed!
    According to the Sunday Times, "teachers are up in arms" because ministers want to cut use of the punctuation mark and this is reflected in the latest guidance for schools. "Sentences ending with an exclamation mark can be marked correct only if they begin with 'How' or 'What'," the paper says.

    WTF!

    (1 mark)
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    Before we get to thinking that US politics is trivial, we should perhaps consider whether Trump could shag a dead pig...
    Did anyone ever read that very long book to work out what it was that CCHQ was (successfully) trying to bury, rather than the un-shocking revelation that Cameron was a student once?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,503
    Good morning, everyone.

    Dr. Foxinsox, whilst seriously unimpressed with Cameron recently, the story was described the 'journalist' who included it in her biography as probably untrue, had a single source and no evidence.

    By that bar, someone could say the same about anyone.

    On-topic: who would Clinton prefer to face?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,729

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    A thread about a 69 year old's manhood? That should pull in the punters
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Leicester are 11/10 for the PL, 5 points clear, next game Newcastle, if it was City or Chelsea I'd make them 2/5. Spurs have Villa and Bournemouth next but are beginning to look tired.

    Wouldn't back Leicester in the circumstances but the price looks generous.
  • Roger said:

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    A thread about a 69 year old's manhood? That should pull in the punters
    I think that thread would be a flop.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,729

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    A thread about a 69 year old's manhood? That should pull in the punters
    I think that thread would be a flop.
    It's the way you tell 'em
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    A thread about a 69 year old's manhood? That should pull in the punters
    I think that thread would be a flop.
    Indeed.

    And to my mind Trump has no chance in the November erection
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    So, Sanders goes further behind and comes into 23/24 on Betfair.......

    Lets wait for him to win lily white Maine before laying him more though.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    How are they going to adjudicate?

    The only comparable I can remember was during the "headless man" scandal when Denning arranged for each member of the Cabinet to be physically examined to determine who the guilty party*

    * Denning claimed that his decision was made on the basis of handwriting analysis (but this analysis was never made public). The above is the version I was told by one of those people who had been, um, checked out.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Trump's manhood, Cameron and a pig - are some on here 13?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Good morning, everyone.

    Dr. Foxinsox, whilst seriously unimpressed with Cameron recently, the story was described the 'journalist' who included it in her biography as probably untrue, had a single source and no evidence.

    By that bar, someone could say the same about anyone.

    Students do daft things, especially in initiation ceremonies. Who cares if it is true or not, that would not be more concerned about Cameron's acknowledged membership of a club for smashing up restaurants?

    No, sorry, it must be a CCHQ smokescreen designed to hide some other revelation.
  • Charles said:

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    How are they going to adjudicate?

    The only comparable I can remember was during the "headless man" scandal when Denning arranged for each member of the Cabinet to be physically examined to determine who the guilty party*

    * Denning claimed that his decision was made on the basis of handwriting analysis (but this analysis was never made public). The above is the version I was told by one of those people who had been, um, checked out.
    We need something like this

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/no-moles-no-growths-but-clinton-has-his-blemishes-1294429.html
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited March 2016
    Sadiq Khan's aide suspended.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35738861

    Shueb Salar is alleged to have posted abusive language about women and homosexuals on Twitter, in 2012.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,729

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    Before we get to thinking that US politics is trivial, we should perhaps consider whether Trump could shag a dead pig...
    I'm surprised Cameron didn't sue. I'm sure it wouldn't stand up in court
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Niall Ferguson's Mystic Meg wit on a Trump win/Hillary indictment is rather amusing http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/columns/NiallFerguson/article1675031.ece

  • Trump's manhood, Cameron and a pig - are some on here 13?

    Some of us are ex public schoolboys, we're obsessed.

    That said this is political betting dotcom and there is a betting market on the size of Trump's todger.

    It would be wrong of me not to mention the political betting opportunities.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    Before we get to thinking that US politics is trivial, we should perhaps consider whether Trump could shag a dead pig...
    I'm sure it wouldn't stand up in court
    Probably the same reason Trump isn't suing Rubio .... :smiley:

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,460
    Cruz coming in fast on Betfair as punters wake up and scramble to cover him - down to 4.2 now. Rubio speeding out at 14, Kasich steady at 20. Trump still 1.64, which looks a lay to me. He is well short of a majority of delegates already chosen and on last night's showing will be vulnerable to the Romney strategy of endorsing different challengers in different places. I can see Cruz giving him more trouble in the conservative states and Kasich doing the same in the north. Can we see non-Trump delegates rallying behind him if he's lost a string of late primaries? Surely not.

    It's hard to spot the winner, but 1.64 is too short for it to be Trump.
  • Trump's manhood, Cameron and a pig - are some on here 13?

    Some of us are ex public schoolboys, we're obsessed.

    And at least one of us has never regretted causing a family row by refusing to take the Winchester entrance exam. I'd probably have needed far more hours with a shrink (at £50/60 a pop, oh well) if I'd taken it.

  • Returning to the Mother's Day post-mortem on yesterdays' primaries. It seems to me that this is now a two horse race. Whilst Trump says he wants it to be down to him and Cruz, possibly it would actually be better for him if Rubio stays in until Florida? Because Trump should win Florida if Rubio stays in the race.
    The momentum is clearly with Cruz, and maybe some of the party's establishment have reluctantly accepted that he is better than Trump. Yes they hate him but the risk for them is not just that they lose the Presidential but both houses as well in a Goldwater-style humiliation if Trump is their candidate.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,352
    edited March 2016
    Substituting Cruz for Trump is like swapping biological for nuclear weapons. One might be less noisy, but they're both nasty and the end result is the same.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,997

    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    How are they going to adjudicate?

    The only comparable I can remember was during the "headless man" scandal when Denning arranged for each member of the Cabinet to be physically examined to determine who the guilty party*

    * Denning claimed that his decision was made on the basis of handwriting analysis (but this analysis was never made public). The above is the version I was told by one of those people who had been, um, checked out.
    We need something like this

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/no-moles-no-growths-but-clinton-has-his-blemishes-1294429.html
    Reminds me of the identification of the late king Harold II.... by a mark on his body known only to his mistress!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,729
    edited March 2016

    Back home, the government has apparently declared war on exclamation marks.

    From the BBC's round-up of the papers (because I don't get the ST):

    Cripes! No exclamation allowed!
    According to the Sunday Times, "teachers are up in arms" because ministers want to cut use of the punctuation mark and this is reflected in the latest guidance for schools. "Sentences ending with an exclamation mark can be marked correct only if they begin with 'How' or 'What'," the paper says.

    Alaistaire Cooke when asked for tips on writing suggested avoiding adjectives. Something 'Leavers' might want to consider.
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited March 2016
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    A thread about a 69 year old's manhood? That should pull in the punters
    I think that thread would be a flop.
    It's the way you tell 'em
    More like: The way Cameron 'blows' negotiations....

    :off-for-a-deserved-walk:
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276

    Cruz coming in fast on Betfair as punters wake up and scramble to cover him - down to 4.2 now. Rubio speeding out at 14, Kasich steady at 20. Trump still 1.64, which looks a lay to me. He is well short of a majority of delegates already chosen and on last night's showing will be vulnerable to the Romney strategy of endorsing different challengers in different places. I can see Cruz giving him more trouble in the conservative states and Kasich doing the same in the north. Can we see non-Trump delegates rallying behind him if he's lost a string of late primaries? Surely not.

    It's hard to spot the winner, but 1.64 is too short for it to be Trump.

    I think I disagree about the lack of value in Trump's price.

    If it comes to a brokered convention Trump the guy with all the cards, he is the only one that can, and will, run as a third party candidate on the basis of betrayal. His line is "give it to me or I'll bring the whole thing down in flames around me"

    They may not *like* him bit they *loathe* Hilary. He's not going to blink, if he has the most delegates, he's the guy.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,352
    First the pig, then Labour, then the country, then the Lib Dems, now his own party.

    At least Cameron is consistent.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,503
    F1: 12 days until the first race weekend. Enjoy my cunning insight and rambling ahead of the 2016 season here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/pre-season-f1-2016-predictions-and.html
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,293
    Jonathan said:

    First the pig, then Labour, then the country, then the Lib Dems, now his own party.

    At least Cameron is consistent.

    You forgot the Lib Dems ... ;)

    Although to be fair, Labour f'd themselves very well without Cameron's help. Their problems all originate in the events leading to Brown's coronation.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,997

    Jonathan said:

    First the pig, then Labour, then the country, then the Lib Dems, now his own party.

    At least Cameron is consistent.

    You forgot the Lib Dems ... ;)

    Although to be fair, Labour f'd themselves very well without Cameron's help. Their problems all originate in the events leading to Brown's coronation.
    Which could be blamed on Blair. If he hadn’t hung on so long .......

    Or invaded Iraq.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    So, surely the question now is whether Trump's lead in the coming WTA states will hold up.
  • Jonathan said:

    First the pig, then Labour, then the country, then the Lib Dems, now his own party.

    At least Cameron is consistent.

    You forgot the Lib Dems ... ;)

    Although to be fair, Labour f'd themselves very well without Cameron's help. Their problems all originate in the events leading to Brown's coronation.
    Which could be blamed on Blair. If he hadn’t hung on so long .......

    Or invaded Iraq.
    Indeed. Labour's activists prefer opposition to power. It's very hard to betray anyone unless you have the power to do so. And if you hold power for long enough you will commit an act of betrayal. It's just that in the last century, Labour never did hold it for more than six years at a time.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,503
    edited March 2016
    So, Turkey's government has taken over a critical newspaper, and in Russia a man may face a year in prison for writing 'there is no God' on the internet.

    Erdogan and Putin should stop the pissing contest and just get a room.

    Edited extra bit: Russian link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35715325
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,460



    I think I disagree about the lack of value in Trump's price.

    If it comes to a brokered convention Trump the guy with all the cards, he is the only one that can, and will, run as a third party candidate on the basis of betrayal. His line is "give it to me or I'll bring the whole thing down in flames around me"

    They may not *like* him bit they *loathe* Hilary. He's not going to blink, if he has the most delegates, he's the guy.

    Elaborating, look at the schedule:
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/primary-calendar-and-results.html?_r=0

    On the Democrat side, Sanders will get a boost today in Maine, but Michigan is his best chance to slow the Clinton juggernaut, and he probably won't quite succeed. But on the GOP side, Tuesday has Michigan, which Kasich could well win (2 points ahead in latest poll) and endorsed by the leading local paper) and Mississippi, which Trump has leading in by 41-17 last month, but should now be closer. March 15 has three big winner-takes-all/most states, FL, OH and IL. Kasich should now take OH. The other two, who knows now. And then we move on to big northern and western states where Trump is generally not as strong.

    The path to a Trump majority is difficult, and getting e.g. Rubio supporters to back him after all he's said about Rubio will be really hard unless he's been winning recent primaries, such as California. I don't think Trump should be better than evens (disclosure: I have a £30 lay on him).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Jonathan said:

    Substituting Cruz for Trump is like swapping biological for nuclear weapons. One might be less noisy, but they're both nasty and the end result is the same.

    Han, it's more like swapping ricin for a firecracker.

    One might be noisy and attract attention but is basically harmless. The other is silent but deadly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    Wanderer said:

    So, surely the question now is whether Trump's lead in the coming WTA states will hold up.

    Cruz has certainly done better at showing himself as the only true challenger than i expected - seems like the public are confirming that with perfect timing. We approach those states.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,352
    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    Referenda kill parties.

    They do so, because like a pressure valve, they release the truth that parties are not coherent, stable things and that there is often more tension within parties than between them. They are bombs waiting to go off.

    Cameron finally has a chance to defeat the people who have been causing him the most trouble for 10 years. I expect he wants to annihilate them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,497

    Back home, the government has apparently declared war on exclamation marks.

    From the BBC's round-up of the papers (because I don't get the ST):

    Cripes! No exclamation allowed!
    According to the Sunday Times, "teachers are up in arms" because ministers want to cut use of the punctuation mark and this is reflected in the latest guidance for schools. "Sentences ending with an exclamation mark can be marked correct only if they begin with 'How' or 'What'," the paper says.

    It would be really helpful if teachers were not micromanaged by moronic, semi-literate, unselfaware failures, aka the Department for Education.

    Yes, exclamation marks are over-used. See, for example, Agatha Christie or R. F. Delderfield. But an organisation that made three unintentional mistakes in the grammar section of its own literacy test is in no position to preach to others on punctuation. Especially since in creative writing it indicates a tone of voice not a grammar construct.

    I hope every teacher will prove them wrong by shouting 'F@&k off grasshoppers!' at every opportunity.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    edited March 2016

    So, Turkey's government has taken over a critical newspaper, and in Russia a man may face a year in prison for writing 'there is no God' on the internet.

    Erdogan and Putin should stop the pissing contest and just get a room.

    Edited extra bit: Russian link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35715325

    It seemed notable on the other turkey story that the bbcs take admitted the rules had only offered weak comment.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    Referenda kill parties.

    They do so, because like a pressure valve, they release the truth that parties are not coherent, stable things and that there is often more tension within parties than between them. They are bombs waiting to go off.

    Cameron finally has a chance to defeat the people who have been causing him the most trouble for 10 years. I expect he wants to annihilate them.
    Do you mean conservatives?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,503
    edited March 2016
    Mr. Jonathan, the reverse is true, I think.

    Cameron's referendum strategic is almost Pyrrhic (except that Pyrrhus wanted to win the war, not merely battles). It's foolish, short-sighted and really quite stupid. Cameron's riling up the backbenches and sceptics, and making it likelier for a sceptic to do well in the contest to succeed him.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. kle4, by the 'other' Turkey story, d'you mean one beside the state occupation of a newspaper and, if so, what was it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,497

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    Is there something we should know about Carson's manhood?
    Paddy Power have a market on how big Donald Trump's manhood is.

    I would do a thread on it, but the afternoon thread is about STDs and monkey shit, and I don't want to lower the tone

    https://sports.paddypower.mobi/?#sport/33/competition/13089/event/10270323
    A thread about a 69 year old's manhood? That should pull in the punters
    I think that thread would be a flop.
    Not necessarily, the Republican campaign so far has been the most imposing political cock-up since Lloyd George got frisky across the cabinet table.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited March 2016
    Janet Daley adds her 2p
    But there was an even nastier sub-text to that histrionic [Calais] warning. Not only was it designed to be shamelessly scarifying, but it implicitly condoned the most unpleasant form of xenophobic anxiety: “You know what we can do to you if you pull out? We can dump all this scabrous human detritus on your doorstep – and you wouldn’t like that much, would you?”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12184496/Why-am-I-considered-a-bigot-or-an-idiot-for-wanting-Britain-the-leave-the-EU.html
  • LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467
    Dropping Maine will be a disappointment. Trump neglecting organisation there whilst Cruz didn't. Trump will be pleased to see so many future contests are now open primaries not closed caucuses and one on one with Cruz is a good place to be for Trump in the up coming WTA states. Democrats would be delighted to see Cruz win it (he won't).

    We would have to see more post debate polls to see if there has been an impact, not convinced there has been a lasting impact.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,497

    So, Turkey's government has taken over a critical newspaper, and in Russia a man may face a year in prison for writing 'there is no God' on the internet.

    Erdogan and Putin should stop the pissing contest and just get a room.

    Edited extra bit: Russian link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35715325

    Remarkable to think it's less than 25 years since you could have been arrested in Russia for saying the opposite (although in practice that was the attitude of Khrushchev rather than Gorbachev).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,293

    So, Turkey's government has taken over a critical newspaper, and in Russia a man may face a year in prison for writing 'there is no God' on the internet.

    Erdogan and Putin should stop the pissing contest and just get a room.

    Edited extra bit: Russian link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35715325

    Indeed.

    Interestingly, Zaman (the Turkish newspaper) was very pro-Erdogan - a few years ago it was the last paper you'd expect to see the government take over. But unfortunately it's a Gulen-backing newspaper, so when Gulen and Erdogan had their fallout the paper backed the former.

    Another example of how it's hard to talk about Turkish politics without mentioning Gulen. I really wish I could get a handle on him, as the future of the country might be more in his hands than Erdogan's ...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,460

    Janet Daley adds her 2p

    But there was an even nastier sub-text to that histrionic [Calais] warning. Not only was it designed to be shamelessly scarifying, but it implicitly condoned the most unpleasant form of xenophobic anxiety: “You know what we can do to you if you pull out? We can dump all this scabrous human detritus on your doorstep – and you wouldn’t like that much, would you?”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12184496/Why-am-I-considered-a-bigot-or-an-idiot-for-wanting-Britain-the-leave-the-EU.html

    Whereas before she talked about Brexit people felt she was tolerant and intelligent? Hmm.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    A myth of conspiracy and back stabbing was being created long before the referendum was even on the cards, it was one reason some leavers claimed not to want a ref Cameron organised. Either they were right to fear, or Cameron and co knew they'd be accused of a stitch up anyway so are going all out.

    My guess is he and his inner circle knew that, nonsense about politeness and accepting the result, he will face calls to stand down even if he wins, and they see the only way to resist that as an overwhelming win. He cannot heal the rift in his party and so has instead decided not to even try, but get such public support for his pick in the ref that his clique remain in control, as we know the party split is not as decisive as leave,s noise makes it seem.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,138
    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    Referenda kill parties.

    They do so, because like a pressure valve, they release the truth that parties are not coherent, stable things and that there is often more tension within parties than between them. They are bombs waiting to go off.

    Cameron finally has a chance to defeat the people who have been causing him the most trouble for 10 years. I expect he wants to annihilate them.
    A very interesting and insightful comment. So true - there is far too big a gulf between members/activists and the people. Very dangerous for democracy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,293

    Mr. Jonathan, the reverse is true, I think.

    Cameron's referendum strategic is almost Pyrrhic (except that Pyrrhus wanted to win the war, not merely battles). It's foolish, short-sighted and really quite stupid. Cameron's riling up the backbenches and sceptics, and making it likelier for a sceptic to do well in the contest to succeed him.

    (Snip)

    The problem is the party is split, and there are loud voices (many honourable) on both sides. There would be discontentment from the other side whichever side he took.

    I cannot help thinking that many on here complaining about his actions (real or perceived) would be less vociferous if he were doing the same things and on their side ...

    Personally, I'm just thankful he's given me a referendum. I've wanted one for at least ten or fifteen years, if not longer. He's given me the referendum I wanted, and now I can choose.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    edited March 2016
    This is VERY hard to call right now.

    The only person in the POTUS market who we can perhaps rule out is Bloomberg.

    Sanders too.

    And maybe Rubio. I don't want to put a big red on him in case he does something in FL though, and who knows at this point on the GOP side.


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914

    Mr. Jonathan, the reverse is true, I think.

    Cameron's referendum strategic is almost Pyrrhic (except that Pyrrhus wanted to win the war, not merely battles). It's foolish, short-sighted and really quite stupid. Cameron's riling up the backbenches and sceptics, and making it likelier for a sceptic to do well in the contest to succeed him.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. kle4, by the 'other' Turkey story, d'you mean one beside the state occupation of a newspaper and, if so, what was it?

    No, I added a word in error, I meant the newspaper story.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Leicester are 11/10 for the PL, 5 points clear, next game Newcastle, if it was City or Chelsea I'd make them 2/5. Spurs have Villa and Bournemouth next but are beginning to look tired.

    Wouldn't back Leicester in the circumstances but the price looks generous.

    Spurs form is 1.38 points per game against top half teams (4th ranked in the league). They still have to play Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea, Stoke City and Southampton.

    Assuming they keep that up they will collect 7 points from those, with just four other games to go. They will be doing well to get 19 from the last nine,

    Leicester need a maximum of 15 points from their last nine, in my view. They should have most of those on the board by mid April with Newcastle, Crystal Palace and Sunderland in their imminent matches.

  • Janet Daley adds her 2p

    But there was an even nastier sub-text to that histrionic [Calais] warning. Not only was it designed to be shamelessly scarifying, but it implicitly condoned the most unpleasant form of xenophobic anxiety: “You know what we can do to you if you pull out? We can dump all this scabrous human detritus on your doorstep – and you wouldn’t like that much, would you?”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12184496/Why-am-I-considered-a-bigot-or-an-idiot-for-wanting-Britain-the-leave-the-EU.html
    Whereas before she talked about Brexit people felt she was tolerant and intelligent? Hmm.

    Not many people, but Plato herself? Quite possibly.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,138

    Janet Daley adds her 2p

    But there was an even nastier sub-text to that histrionic [Calais] warning. Not only was it designed to be shamelessly scarifying, but it implicitly condoned the most unpleasant form of xenophobic anxiety: “You know what we can do to you if you pull out? We can dump all this scabrous human detritus on your doorstep – and you wouldn’t like that much, would you?”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12184496/Why-am-I-considered-a-bigot-or-an-idiot-for-wanting-Britain-the-leave-the-EU.html

    Janet Daley in pro-Brexit shocker. Next. Of course it's true most of those people do wish to come to Britain. With the UK out of EU there is no incentive for France to help us out. An inconvenient truth?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    Keep Romney and Ryan in the green now for sure.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Looking up the results it's amazing how few vote. Wheeler County in Nebraska for example was a tie with Clinton and Sanders with 3 votes each! Now I know some US states are sparsely populated but surely an election for the local dog catcher would elicit a greater turnout than 6 electors.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,138
    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    A myth of conspiracy and back stabbing was being created long before the referendum was even on the cards, it was one reason some leavers claimed not to want a ref Cameron organised. Either they were right to fear, or Cameron and co knew they'd be accused of a stitch up anyway so are going all out.

    My guess is he and his inner circle knew that, nonsense about politeness and accepting the result, he will face calls to stand down even if he wins, and they see the only way to resist that as an overwhelming win. He cannot heal the rift in his party and so has instead decided not to even try, but get such public support for his pick in the ref that his clique remain in control, as we know the party split is not as decisive as leave,s noise makes it seem.
    Very fair analysis. Doubt Cameron's plan will work, tho. Too many Tory members, activists and MP's are eurosceptics, likewise Tory media supporters. It's not a sect, it's half the party, maybe more. At all levels. The only way to heal the rift will be electing a eurosceptic leader who reluctantly accepts the referendum defeat, for now.

    A gloating europhile leader will just inflame the wound, horribly.
    The polling evidence suggests the whole issue is not so important to either voters or members. As so often the noise on here and in the media is maybe not so accurate.
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    Why is Liz Kendall doing the Marr paper review? No prizes for the stories she has picked out so far!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,575
    LondonBob said:

    Dropping Maine will be a disappointment. Trump neglecting organisation there whilst Cruz didn't. Trump will be pleased to see so many future contests are now open primaries not closed caucuses and one on one with Cruz is a good place to be for Trump in the up coming WTA states. Democrats would be delighted to see Cruz win it (he won't).

    We would have to see more post debate polls to see if there has been an impact, not convinced there has been a lasting impact.

    But Maine is full of ornery folk. They'll happily do what's not expected of them. So you'd think the ornery thing to do would be to back ornery Trump. So, to be ornery, they don't.

    Beautiful state though. As long as you don't go there in black fly season.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    edited March 2016

    Mr. Jonathan, the reverse is true, I think.

    Cameron's referendum strategic is almost Pyrrhic (except that Pyrrhus wanted to win the war, not merely battles). It's foolish, short-sighted and really quite stupid. Cameron's riling up the backbenches and sceptics, and making it likelier for a sceptic to do well in the contest to succeed him.

    (Snip)

    The problem is the party is split, and there are loud voices (many honourable) on both sides. There would be discontentment from the other side whichever side he took.

    I cannot help thinking that many on here complaining about his actions (real or perceived) would be less vociferous if he were doing the same things and on their side ...

    Personally, I'm just thankful he's given me a referendum. I've wanted one for at least ten or fifteen years, if not longer. He's given me the referendum I wanted, and now I can choose.
    I know there would be complaints no matter what he did, and that there have been hysterical complaints about in essence normal political comment. I think a party war on this was unavoidable despite what some hoped, and given the party split on the issue is fairly even apparently it is not as much a betrayal by Cameron as the more excitable leavers are claiming, and I worry some are already preparing excuses for leave losing when despite all this I think they should win.

    Doesn't mean I don't agree Cameron has massively oversold d a crap deal, or that he is not now throwing the kitchen sink at his opponents within the party, because I do, and I'll still be voting leave. But as someone outside the Tories I think his internal critics are overselling his malevolence and unfairness while underplaying their own. It's a political battle, it was clear it would get ugly and it is. Just fight it without going overboard for once, both sides.

    Obviously that won't happen. A eurosceptic is needed as others have said if remain win o heal the rift or at leadt quiet it. But will the victorious remainers acceot that?the problem remains, ha, that the party is do split on this viral issue lots are unhappy no matter what.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,866
    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    Referenda kill parties.

    They do so, because like a pressure valve, they release the truth that parties are not coherent, stable things and that there is often more tension within parties than between them. They are bombs waiting to go off.

    Cameron finally has a chance to defeat the people who have been causing him the most trouble for 10 years. I expect he wants to annihilate them.
    ... and vice versa. Matthew Parris agrees and wants the winning side to annihilate the losers. The Tories are living in 'interesting times' of their own making.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    108 days to go...

    I just wonder/fear where this will go next.

    I'm making a point on here and Twitter of being polite when engaging with fellow Tories who hold another view. When I think they're talking tosh, I don't reply.
    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    A myth of conspiracy and back stabbing was being created long before the referendum was even on the cards, it was one reason some leavers claimed not to want a ref Cameron organised. Either they were right to fear, or Cameron and co knew they'd be accused of a stitch up anyway so are going all out.

    My guess is he and his inner circle knew that, nonsense about politeness and accepting the result, he will face calls to stand down even if he wins, and they see the only way to resist that as an overwhelming win. He cannot heal the rift in his party and so has instead decided not to even try, but get such public support for his pick in the ref that his clique remain in control, as we know the party split is not as decisive as leave,s noise makes it seem.
    Very fair analysis. Doubt Cameron's plan will work, tho. Too many Tory members, activists and MP's are eurosceptics, likewise Tory media supporters. It's not a sect, it's half the party, maybe more. At all levels. The only way to heal the rift will be electing a eurosceptic leader who reluctantly accepts the referendum defeat, for now.

    A gloating europhile leader will just inflame the wound, horribly.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Pulpstar said:

    This is VERY hard to call right now.

    The only person in the POTUS market who we can perhaps rule out is Bloomberg.

    Sanders too.

    And maybe Rubio. I don't want to put a big red on him in case he does something in FL though, and who knows at this point on the GOP side.

    This is VERY easy to call right now.

    As our friends across the pond say ... Do the math.

    Which non Trump candidate has the numbers in the coming races, especially with upcoming WTA contests, to stop the Big Todger?

    Cruz is a caucus show pony with little pull elsewhere and Rubio and Kasich are one or two hit wonders on the cusp of exiting the race. There is no doubt that Trump is the hair apparent and only the margin is to be determined.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,729
    edited March 2016
    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    Referenda kill parties.

    They do so, because like a pressure valve, they release the truth that parties are not coherent, stable things and that there is often more tension within parties than between them. They are bombs waiting to go off.

    Cameron finally has a chance to defeat the people who have been causing him the most trouble for 10 years. I expect he wants to annihilate them.
    I think you're right. Unlike those who think this'll go the Scottish way and the winners will end up losers I think it'll go the Stalin route. A big REMAIN win it will be seen as a glorious victory for Cameron/Osborne and there will a purge of the 'LEAVERS' that will see the end of 'Boris and the Bastards' for a generation.

    (The Tories might even end up a mainstream centrist party who normal people can vote for without embarrassment)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    felix said:

    Janet Daley adds her 2p

    But there was an even nastier sub-text to that histrionic [Calais] warning. Not only was it designed to be shamelessly scarifying, but it implicitly condoned the most unpleasant form of xenophobic anxiety: “You know what we can do to you if you pull out? We can dump all this scabrous human detritus on your doorstep – and you wouldn’t like that much, would you?”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12184496/Why-am-I-considered-a-bigot-or-an-idiot-for-wanting-Britain-the-leave-the-EU.html
    Janet Daley in pro-Brexit shocker. Next. Of course it's true most of those people do wish to come to Britain. With the UK out of EU there is no incentive for France to help us out. An inconvenient truth?

    That is certainly a risk. But it's surely also a risk for France if even more migrants descend on France in the hope of getting to the UK. Being an even bigger transit camp is not in France 's interests. Not to mention the steps which the UK could take against Eurotunnel or, in extremis, the closure of the tunnel.

    But the wider point is surely this. We're not going to get into some sort of Cold War with France if we're not in the EU. Countries have interests. And they generally try to act in their interests. And if they are silly enough not to, well, why would we want to be an organisation with them.


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,139
    A narrow victory for Remain.
    A moderate Out-er as leader, who heals.
    Another referendum in a 10 to 15 years.
    A vote for Out.

    I'd reckon Labour will have a brief and unhappy time in power 2025 to 2030, then a BOO Conservative Party will win in 2030.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,575

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    Referenda kill parties.

    They do so, because like a pressure valve, they release the truth that parties are not coherent, stable things and that there is often more tension within parties than between them. They are bombs waiting to go off.

    Cameron finally has a chance to defeat the people who have been causing him the most trouble for 10 years. I expect he wants to annihilate them.
    ... and vice versa. Matthew Parris agrees and wants the winning side to annihilate the losers. The Tories are living in 'interesting times' of their own making.
    Parris is being a tool. Do the Leavers want to annihilate the Remainians? No. I suspect most would be happy enough for the Cabinet to carry on as is, without any need of a "healing" reshuffle.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,497
    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    Referenda kill parties.

    They do so, because like a pressure valve, they release the truth that parties are not coherent, stable things and that there is often more tension within parties than between them. They are bombs waiting to go off.

    Cameron finally has a chance to defeat the people who have been causing him the most trouble for 10 years. I expect he wants to annihilate them.
    I think you're right. Unlike those who think this'll go the Scottish way and the winners will end up losers I think it'll go the Stalin route. A big REMAIN win it will be seen as a glorious victory for Cameron/Osborne and there will a purge of the 'LEAVERS' that will see the end of 'Boris and the Bastards' for a generation.

    (The Tories might even end up a mainstream centrist party who normal people can vote for)
    Lol. Rogerdamus strikes again. Infallible.

    Btw how do you "purge" 60-70% of your members and half your MPs? It's like asking a surgeon to amputate your own head.
    Tactless, Sean, tactless. Labour have managed it very easily over Roger's better judgement.
  • SeanT said:

    felix said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    A myth of conspiracy and back stabbing was being created long before the referendum was even on the cards, it was one reason some leavers claimed not to want a ref Cameron organised. Either they were right to fear, or Cameron and co knew they'd be accused of a stitch up anyway so are going all out.

    My guess is he and his inner circle knew that, nonsense about politeness and accepting the result, he will face calls to stand down even if he wins, and they see the only way to resist that as an overwhelming win. He cannot heal the rift in his party and so has instead decided not to even try, but get such public support for his pick in the ref that his clique remain in control, as we know the party split is not as decisive as leave,s noise makes it seem.
    Very fair analysis. Doubt Cameron's plan will work, tho. Too many Tory members, activists and MP's are eurosceptics, likewise Tory media supporters. It's not a sect, it's half the party, maybe more. At all levels. The only way to heal the rift will be electing a eurosceptic leader who reluctantly accepts the referendum defeat, for now.

    A gloating europhile leader will just inflame the wound, horribly.
    The polling evidence suggests the whole issue is not so important to either voters or members. As so often the noise on here and in the media is maybe not so accurate.
    It's hugely important in the Tory party, which is what we are discussing. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot or a myopic europhile, if there is a difference between the two. It's THE issue. It's the issue that toppled Thatcher and did for Major. Denying this is futile.
    Anyone who disagrees with you - on any subject - is idiotic, vicious or both, eh, Sean?

    I haven't operated that way since my balls dropped.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    felix said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible
    Remarkable.

    A myth of it seem.
    Very fair analysis

    A gloating europhile leader will just inflame the wound, horribly.
    The polling evidence suggests the whole issue is not so important to either voters or members. As so often the noise on here and in the media is maybe not so accurate.
    felix said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost cting a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    A myth of conspiracy and back stabbing was being created long before the referendum was even on the cards, it was one reason some leavers claimed not to want a ref Cameron organised. Either they were right to fear, or Cameron and co knew they'd be accused of a stitch up anyway so are going all out.

    My guess is he and his inner circle knew that, nonsense about politeness and accepting the result, he will face calls to stand down even if he wins, and they see the only way to resist that as an overwhelming win. He cannot heal the rift in his party and so has instead decided not to even try, but get such public support for his pick in the ref that his clique remain in control, as we know the party split is not as decisive as leave,s noise makes it seem.
    Very fair analysis. Doubt Cameron's plan will work, tho. Too many Tory members, activists and MP's are eurosceptics, likewise Tory media supporters. It's not a sect, it's half the party, maybe more. At all levels. The only way to heal the rift will be electing a eurosceptic leader who reluctantly accepts the referendum defeat, for now.

    A gloating europhile leader will just inflame the wound, horribly.
    The polling evidence suggests the whole issue is not so important to either voters or members. As so often the noise on here and in the media is maybe not so accurate.
    The noise is being generated from something. I find it hard to believe an issue which has split the parliamentary party so much has no resonance with the members, even if they are not completely representative of those members. The public, perhaps, but that's one reason the fight is expanded to wider criticism if Cameron's leadership or the loony or non loony status of his party rivals.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Good morning, everyone.

    Dr. Foxinsox, whilst seriously unimpressed with Cameron recently, the story was described the 'journalist' who included it in her biography as probably untrue, had a single source and no evidence.

    You mean someone was telling porkies?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Charles Moore isn't impressed either, a bit rich for my blood.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12183729/Our-pompous-bigoted-elite-have-not-even-bothered-to-consider-the-case-for-Brexit.html
    This is a form of bigotry, and it is less common on the Leave side – not because the Outers are necessarily deeper people, but because they have lived under the dominance of the pro-EU order, and so have been forced to think hard about it.

    The bigotry of successful people is stronger than that of uneducated ones, because their life stories tell them they know best. So they stop thinking and instead merely disdain those who disagree with them. Years ago, Mr Cameron famously derided Ukip as “swivel-eyed loons”. Such people exist, perhaps, but the present danger is much more from the swivel-eyed moderates, who so resolutely refuse to look at the way the world is going.

    They also do not see how much they have failed. In the 21st century, the world order and financial systems dominated by the free West have been shaken more profoundly than at any time since 1945, and the people in charge do not know how to correct their own errors, or even admit them. The euro is a major part of this new world disorder, as is the effort to deepen the European Union in the wake of it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    I wonder if the first post referendum cabinet will be reminiscent of Pride's Purge, as eurosceptic/europhile members are excluded at the door. Just a question of who is playing Colonel Pride in each scenario.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    JackW said:

    The moral of Trump's story is you don't boast about the size of your manhood in debates.
    Hasn't Carson dropped out already?

    The moral of the night is not to be too @Speedy about assumptions based one one debate or results in caucus states.

    Cruz has enjoyed another moment in the sun but the delegate rich winner takes all state doomsday approaches and Trump will crush Cruz there.

    On the Dem side the narrative remains the same. Clinton cruising to a comfortable win with Sanders picking up morale boosting but effectively inconsequential wins.

    Clinton v Trump in November and a comfortable win for Hillary.
    Current delegate count is 375 Trump to 298 Cruz, I still think there is a reasonable chance that the anti-Trump vote could unite behind Cruz before the big winner-takes-all states. Also a number of these are closed primaries (GOP registered only) and Trump seems to have been doing worse in those primaries.

    The best thing going in Trump's favour is that Cruz is no more attractive to the GOP establishment and moderate GOP voters than he is. Cruz is not the ideal candidate for the party to rally around. If Rubio had the momentum that Cruz has right now Trump would be in serious trouble.

    Overall I would say Trump's chances are about 70-75% for the nomination. We will know one way or the other by 15th!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,503
    Mr. Alistair, you swine!

    Mr. T, what's your current voting intention, or have you been too distracted by Bhutan to contemplate it?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,138

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    Referenda kill parties.

    They do so, because like a pressure valve, they release the truth that parties are not coherent, stable things and that there is often more tension within parties than between them. They are bombs waiting to go off.

    Cameron finally has a chance to defeat the people who have been causing him the most trouble for 10 years. I expect he wants to annihilate them.
    ... and vice versa. Matthew Parris agrees and wants the winning side to annihilate the losers. The Tories are living in 'interesting times' of their own making.
    Parris is being a tool. Do the Leavers want to annihilate the Remainians? No. I suspect most would be happy enough for the Cabinet to carry on as is, without any need of a "healing" reshuffle.
    I'm sure you are right but it is not the view of many on here in the Leave camp. They claim the party is clamouring for blood whatever the result.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    I see Project Fear really ramping up the rhetoric this morning

    EU fuels terror and fascism, warns Gove


    Oh, wait, that's the other guys, right?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,575
    JackW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This is VERY hard to call right now.

    The only person in the POTUS market who we can perhaps rule out is Bloomberg.

    Sanders too.

    And maybe Rubio. I don't want to put a big red on him in case he does something in FL though, and who knows at this point on the GOP side.

    This is VERY easy to call right now.

    As our friends across the pond say ... Do the math.

    Which non Trump candidate has the numbers in the coming races, especially with upcoming WTA contests, to stop the Big Todger?

    Cruz is a caucus show pony with little pull elsewhere and Rubio and Kasich are one or two hit wonders on the cusp of exiting the race. There is no doubt that Trump is the hair apparent and only the margin is to be determined.
    Cruz is also the bat-shit crazy Tea Party guy, the representative of those who have caused many of the divisive problems within the Republican Party. They might as well say "To save the party, let's rally behind the voice of reason that is Sarah Palin." THAT'S how far adrift Cruz is of being their Last Great Hope.

    With Trump, they can blame the mood of the voters for a weird aberration - and plan for normality some time down the line. With Cruz, they just lost their party.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: Odd that @BBCr4today is reporting Boris theory for Longworth suspension without explaining actual reason: he breached BCC neutral position.

    But, but, that doesn't fit the Cameron betrayal narrative...
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,138

    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    A myth of conspiracy and back stabbing was being created long before the referendum was even on the cards, it was one reason some leavers claimed not to want a ref Cameron organised. Either they were right to fear, or Cameron and co knew they'd be accused of a stitch up anyway so are going all out.

    My guess is he and his inner circle knew that, nonsense about politeness and accepting the result, he will face calls to stand down even if he wins, and they see the only way to resist that as an overwhelming win. He cannot heal the rift in his party and so has instead decided not to even try, but get such public support for his pick in the ref that his clique remain in control, as we know the party split is not as decisive as leave,s noise makes it seem.
    Very fair analysis. Doubt Cameron's plan will work, tho. Too many Tory members, activists and MP's are eurosceptics, likewise Tory media supporters. It's not a sect, it's half the party, maybe more. At all levels. The only way to heal the rift will be electing a eurosceptic leader who reluctantly accepts the referendum defeat, for now.

    A gloating europhile leader will just inflame the wound, horribly.
    The polling evidence suggests the whole issue is not so important to either voters or members. As so often the noise on here and in the media is maybe not so accurate.
    It's hugely important in the Tory party, which is what we are discussing. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot or a myopic europhile, if there is a difference between the two. It's THE issue. It's the issue that toppled Thatcher and did for Major. Denying this is futile.
    Anyone who disagrees with you - on any subject - is idiotic, vicious or both, eh, Sean?

    I haven't operated that way since my balls dropped.

    Lol - SeanT is still waiting.....
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    The polling evidence suggests the whole issue is not so important to either voters or members. As so often the noise on here and in the media is maybe not so accurate.

    It's hugely important in the Tory party, which is what we are discussing. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot or a myopic europhile, if there is a difference between the two. It's THE issue. It's the issue that toppled Thatcher and did for Major. Denying this is futile.

    Anyone who disagrees with you - on any subject - is idiotic, vicious or both, eh, Sean?

    I haven't operated that way since my balls dropped.



    That's the way viewcode and flightpath operate, perhaps you Remainers had better get used to it, as I said last night if you can't take it don't dish it out.

    Meantime the statement Boris came out with is perfect, whether Downing Street are behind it or not the damage has been done by Boris. This will resonate with thousands of small business owners up and down the land:

    "He speaks for the many small and medium sized businesses - the lifeblood of the economy - who cannot understand why they should comply with more and more regulation, over which this country has no democratic control."
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    A myth of conspiracy and back stabbing was being created long before the referendum was even on the cards, it was one reason some leavers claimed not to want a ref Cameron organised. Either they were right to fear, or Cameron and co knew they'd be accused of a stitch up anyway so are going all out.

    My guess is he and his inner circle knew that, nonsense about politeness and accepting the result, he will face calls to stand down even if he wins, and they see the only way to resist that as an overwhelming win. He cannot heal the rift in his party and so has instead decided not to even try, but get such public support for his pick in the ref that his clique remain in control, as we know the party split is not as decisive as leave,s noise makes it seem.
    Very fair analysis. Doubt Cameron's plan will work, tho. Too many Tory members, activists and MP's are eurosceptics, likewise Tory media supporters. It's not a sect, it's half the party, maybe more. At all levels. The only way to heal the rift will be electing a eurosceptic leader who reluctantly accepts the referendum defeat, for now.

    A gloating europhile leader will just inflame the wound, horribly.
    The polling evidence suggests the whole issue is not so important to either voters or members. As so often the noise on here and in the media is maybe not so accurate.
    It's hugely important in the Tory party, which is what we are discussing. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot or a myopic europhile, if there is a difference between the two. It's THE issue. It's the issue that toppled Thatcher and did for Major. Denying this is futile.
    What would be interesting would be a thread on why the Tories have turned so much more eurosceptic than Labour, even though they never used to be.

    Given some of the EU policies we have seen in recent years, it is odd that there is not more of a left wing critique of the EU. There is certainly room for one.

    Why does the EU seem to cut across traditional left/right lines? Or maybe it is to do with which strand in national parties is uppermost: trading / jobs vs national sovereignty?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: Schauble repeated what he said at the BCC: A post-Brexit Britain would get a trade deal but "a big difference" with access to Single Market
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Jonathan said:

    Substituting Cruz for Trump is like swapping biological for nuclear weapons. One might be less noisy, but they're both nasty and the end result is the same.


    And therein lies the Republican's dilemma!
  • Janet Daley, a good source for Euro enthusiasts and unsuccessful Labour candidates to (humbly, I suggest) study. on mAY 2, 2015 she maintained polls seemed dodgy:

    How on earth did we get here? An Opposition leader who was almost universally regarded as an unelectable joke (at least outside of highly specialised circles) six months ago is now apparently locked in an unbreakable popular tie with a Prime Minister whose government has engineered a remarkable economic recovery. Either the Conservatives have run a quite spectacularly disastrous election campaign – or this isn’t actually happening.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/06/cruz-wins-the-most-delegates-tonight-but-it-looks-like-tonight-was-goodnight-rubio-saturday/#vanilla-comments

    How insighntful was that compared to the najority view on PB.com at that time?!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: Germany's finance minister Schauble says Brexit would involve - "Years of difficult negotiations" which would be "poisonous" for UK economy
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The Republican Nomination betting market is the perfect counter example for those who think 'the market' is rational.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,866
    rcs1000 said:

    A narrow victory for Remain.
    A moderate Out-er as leader, who heals.
    Another referendum in a 10 to 15 years.
    A vote for Out.

    I'd reckon Labour will have a brief and unhappy time in power 2025 to 2030, then a BOO Conservative Party will win in 2030.

    Is that based on anything?
    Who would the moderate Outer be? Boris - is he really an Outer?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Good morning and tashi delek from beautifully weird Bhutan. Incredible place.

    Almost as incredible is the news that Number 10 agitated to get the eurosceptic BCC Chairman suspended. Wtf is the government doing? Are they so terrified of losing the referendum they don't care about the aftermath? It's unbelievably short sighted.

    REMAIN are very likely to win. They don't need to do this. Yet they are carefully constructing a myth of a conspiracy and a stab-in-the-back that betrayed a patriotic cause. Last time this happened we got Nazi Germany. A much milder form of this utterly destroyed Scottish Labour.

    Remarkable.

    Referenda kill parties.

    They do so, because like a pressure valve, they release the truth that parties are not coherent, stable things and that there is often more tension within parties than between them. They are bombs waiting to go off.

    Cameron finally has a chance to defeat the people who have been causing him the most trouble for 10 years. I expect he wants to annihilate them.
    ... and vice versa. Matthew Parris agrees and wants the winning side to annihilate the losers. The Tories are living in 'interesting times' of their own making.
    Parris is being a tool. Do the Leavers want to annihilate the Remainians? No. I suspect most would be happy enough for the Cabinet to carry on as is, without any need of a "healing" reshuffle.
    An all out war s probably a mistake, but I'm not sure about the carry on as it is approach. Already the sides have implied the others are fools or dishonourable, that will only increase particularly as non party allies on this issue say worse things. We e already had trailed there may be challenges even if remain win, and detain should leave win, and done in the party like Tebbit have been dreaming of opportunity line this. If a challenge is made, will outers in the cabinet shoot it down? Maybe for a time, but depending on if they feel they were hard done by, perhaps not for long.
This discussion has been closed.