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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Don’t expect anything to come of the GOP’s establishment ef

SystemSystem Posts: 11,704
edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Don’t expect anything to come of the GOP’s establishment effort to stop Trump

The next rounds take place this weekend with four states electing delegates for the Republicans (Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana and Maine) and four for the Democrats (Kansas,Louisiana,Maine and Nebraska). Much has been made of the apparent desire of the GOP establishment to stop Trump. Don’t expect it to come to anything.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    First like Trump?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Marco Rubio need to drop out the race :D
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    David H is eminently sensible as ever.
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    The Republican Party should have used AV to select their nominee.

    I reckon AV would be the only way to stop Trump getting the nomination
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I've been betting according to very similar logic so I hope that David Herdson is right.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCNewsnight: Was Donald Trump right to call John Sweeney "Thick"? WATCH full report here: https://t.co/jD1WxjMIIr https://t.co/j0mnhykcX5
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    MetatronMetatron Posts: 193
    I got a 1000/1 on Kasich a few weeks ago on betfair and think that last night`s debate might be a turning point and Kasich now 25/1 could become Trump`s main challenger.Both Cruz and Rubio by trying to mix it with Trump have damaged themselves and the non-Trump republican base may turn to Kasich who is the only remaining candidate to have any real dignity.He also has an impressive CV as Ohio Governor
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Rep Nom market is weird right now, went to 98% on the "back" side. Was able to extract £10 from the field ;)
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    The Republican Party should have used AV to select their nominee.

    I reckon AV would be the only way to stop Trump getting the nomination

    Maybe you should write a thread on it?

    (It wouldn't, I suspect: Trump's support has gone up as the minor candidates dropped out).
  • Options

    The Republican Party should have used AV to select their nominee.

    I reckon AV would be the only way to stop Trump getting the nomination

    Maybe you should write a thread on it?

    (It wouldn't, I suspect: Trump's support has gone up as the minor candidates dropped out).
    I've already written one PB thread for Sunday that might be lively, a thread on AV might be too much of a sugar rush for PBers
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    1000-1 is a good price, Metatron - but much as I like Kasich I don't think he can do it. The first post-debate poll (in Michigan) shows little particular movement - I suspect a lot of voters have made up their minds. Trump is on 42, Cruz 20, Kasich up from 14 to 18, Rudio on 16. If that continues, maybe Kasich will come second, which would be nice for him, but...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Metatron said:

    I got a 1000/1 on Kasich a few weeks ago on betfair and think that last night`s debate might be a turning point and Kasich now 25/1 could become Trump`s main challenger.Both Cruz and Rubio by trying to mix it with Trump have damaged themselves and the non-Trump republican base may turn to Kasich who is the only remaining candidate to have any real dignity.He also has an impressive CV as Ohio Governor

    I have Kasich onside too, he is ~ odds on in fact for the nomination !

    There is no case I can make right now for having any sort of +ve position at all on Hillary, as all the other (realistic) contenders are reckoned to be stronger than Trump from a purely mathematical PoV.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited March 2016

    1000-1 is a good price, Metatron - but much as I like Kasich I don't think he can do it. The first post-debate poll (in Michigan) shows little particular movement - I suspect a lot of voters have made up their minds. Trump is on 42, Cruz 20, Kasich up from 14 to 18, Rudio on 16. If that continues, maybe Kasich will come second, which would be nice for him, but...

    1000-1 is the very best price Nick ! £2 is now worth £50.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Just saw the Local Election results in the previous thread.

    What's happening to the Tory vote ? Falling off a cliff !
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2016
    Just over a week ago Rubio was at around 3.4 on Betfair and Cruz around 70.0. That was ridiculous, given the polling, the delegate totals and the prospects. Now 6.6 and 10.5 respectively to back, which is more like it.

    I wonder if we'll get Cruz/Rubio crossover?
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    I've been using some of my green from Trump (and a bit more) to get on Paul Ryan for 50k, Mitt Romney for 10k, and Kasich for 4.5k on the next president market. Reasoning being that if a brokered convention starts looking more likely rumours are bound to swirl around both of these (Ryan was simply the better value). Ryan has now come in from 500s to below 300s, though I'm looking for him to come in quite a bit more before I take any profit.

    As a few people here have already suggested, there are two plausible outcomes now: Trump gets over the threshold and gets the nomination straightforwardly, or a contested convention. A Kasich surge, which I'd welcome, will almost certainly result in the latter if successful since he's coming from so far behind.

    Trump as the potential nominee still seems like a bad comedy whose credits are overdue to roll. Perhaps they never will, but it still feels like something out of a bad movie. Then again, I guess Blairites felt the same way about Corbyn's successful campaign for Labour leader.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    It's off the ground this time !!
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446

    The Republican Party should have used AV to select their nominee.

    I reckon AV would be the only way to stop Trump getting the nomination

    Maybe you should write a thread on it?

    (It wouldn't, I suspect: Trump's support has gone up as the minor candidates dropped out).
    I've already written one PB thread for Sunday that might be lively, a thread on AV might be too much of a sugar rush for PBers
    Sunil J. Prasannan is calling for a total and complete shut-down of AV threads entering PB.com, until our forum's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on!
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446

    First like Trump?

    Trump's Top :)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited March 2016
    This is a truly crazy engineering feat Spacex is attempting.Send a rocket 200 miles in the air at 8000 mph, then land it on a 50 foot barge.
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    valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 605
    surbiton said:

    Just saw the Local Election results in the previous thread.

    What's happening to the Tory vote ? Falling off a cliff !

    Wondering if the anti government/pro labour vote is going to the Lib Dems(because of Jeremy)?.
    Much of UKIP vote def going back to Labour, which could be important for Labour in the valleys, where a drubbing was on the cards in the Assembly elections.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    Whilst the interventions by Romney and others may not stop Trump winning the nomination is there not a fair chance that they will stop him winning the Presidency.

    Whereas Trump supporters may have made their minds up, these interventions are surely going to increase doubts about him amongst floating voters - ie floating GE voters.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    Just over a week ago Rubio was at around 3.4 on Betfair and Cruz around 70.0. That was ridiculous, given the polling, the delegate totals and the prospects. Now 6.6 and 10.5 respectively to back, which is more like it.

    I wonder if we'll get Cruz/Rubio crossover?

    I did the "swap" at Cruz 40 for £50, one of the best moves I've made in the whole race I think.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    edited March 2016
    surbiton said:

    Just saw the Local Election results in the previous thread.

    What's happening to the Tory vote ? Falling off a cliff !

    Cameron and Osborne are in the process of destroying their party (if their party doesn't destroy them first)

    Who would actually vote for this pair of clowns now? Even Corbyn would probably be better....
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    GIN1138 said:

    surbiton said:

    Just saw the Local Election results in the previous thread.

    What's happening to the Tory vote ? Falling off a cliff !

    Cameron and Osborne are in the process of destroying their party (if their party doesn't destroy them first)

    Who would actually vote for this pair of clowns now? Even Corbyn would probably be better....
    Yes. 10 months is a very long time in politics.............
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,262
    Pure HRC, or a a semi switched on intern? You decide.

    https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/705579415510634496
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    Re pensions news tonight.

    Thank feck for that. ... as it is all the extra tax relief incurred with the massive acceleration in contributions will surely muck up the deficit target this year....
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    GIN1138 said:

    surbiton said:

    Just saw the Local Election results in the previous thread.

    What's happening to the Tory vote ? Falling off a cliff !

    Cameron and Osborne are in the process of destroying their party (if their party doesn't destroy them first)

    Who would actually vote for this pair of clowns now? Even Corbyn would probably be better....
    Take a step back at what you've just typed.. Mcdonnell as chancellor? I think not thank you.
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    shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672

    An unexpected pro-brexit.

    The (financial) times are a changing..

    https://tinyurl.com/hjyqx95

    (clear your cache if the paywall appears).
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    What we need is the steadying hand of the Lib Dems back in Govt.
    ..
    ...
    Night!
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    Late night Iht post... not seen on pb for many years..

    But here goes for one night only..

    Ensure you have nominated beneficiaries for any pension pots aka expression of wish. Don't just leave the pot to your spouse but instead think of leaving some to your kids or grandkids.

    Iht planning without the gifting or loss of control over money you might need.

    #coys
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    Trump and brexit.

    Millions of words and tweets. Neither gonna happen in reaching their goal....
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    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited March 2016
    According to The Daily Telegraph, George Osborne has abandoned plans for a tax raid on the pensions of millions of middle-class workers in his forthcoming Budget after a furious backlash from Tory MPs.
    The severely wounded Chancellor is clearly struggling to square the circle in attempting to keep Government borrowing under control. Last year he was forced to capitulate as regards plans to severely curtail tax credits and now this.
    Why is it that Chancellors continue to meddle with stealth taxes and in attacking peoples' savings instead of taking a far more honest, common sense approach to the problem?
    The simple fact is that the standard rate of income tax has been progressively reduced from 35% right down to its present level of 20%, whilst at the same time, the basic personal allowance has been increased to £10,000, both resulting in once unimaginable reductions in income tax.
    The truth of the matter is that these reductions have gone too far in terms of what the country can and can't afford.
    The Chancellor should stop messing about and announce at least a 2p or 3p increase in the basic rate of income tax, with unfortunately the prospect of further rises to come.
    Hopefully such necessary action might just help to shore up the value of Sterling which has fallen by an alarming 10% or more over just the last few weeks.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    shiney2 said:


    An unexpected pro-brexit.

    The (financial) times are a changing..

    https://tinyurl.com/hjyqx95

    (clear your cache if the paywall appears).

    I'm a big fan of Merryn's, of Brexit, and of her second point in that piece.

    I'm less a believer in point one. Why? Because, however you cut it, private sector debt levels are simply lower in the Eurozone. The St Louis Federal Reserve has a website devoted to economic data (called, wonderfully, FRED) which can be found here: https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/

    In it they have fabulously detailed data on debts by country. And while the Eurozone has many, many problems, debt is simply not one of them. In the UK, household debt is (what) 170% of GDP. It's more than 100% in a whole bunch of major economies. In Italy, France and Germany, it's barely more than 50%. This doesn't mean these economies are all in great shape (obviously), but it means expecting that the next Eurozone crisis will emerge from over indebted consumers on the continent is a classic example of recency bias (the UK and the US has housing debt crises therefore...), rather than any kind of sensible analysis of the data.

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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    45-50 band is now 4th favourite.

    55-60 Fav
    50-55 2nd fav
    60-65 3rd Fav
    45-50 4th Fav
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    Again there is a mismatch between the bands market and the overall result market.

    Leave should be a minimum of 3.8 based on bands market but in fact it's 3.55/3.6 in the result market.

    Are people who want to Leave artificially forcing Leave down in the result market?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    MikeL said:

    Again there is a mismatch between the bands market and the overall result market.

    Leave should be a minimum of 3.8 based on bands market but in fact it's 3.55/3.6 in the result market.

    Are people who want to Leave artificially forcing Leave down in the result market?

    45-50, combined with a bet on Remain is almost free money
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Saw this sign prominently displayed in a doctor's office waiting room today -

    Unsupervised children will be given sugar and a free puppy.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited March 2016
    He's back......

    If you recall, the murder weapon was never found.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/04/us/oj-simpson-property-knife/index.html
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    According to The Daily Telegraph, George Osborne has abandoned plans for a tax raid on the pensions of millions of middle-class workers in his forthcoming Budget after a furious backlash from Tory MPs.
    The severely wounded Chancellor is clearly struggling to square the circle in attempting to keep Government borrowing under control. Last year he was forced to capitulate as regards plans to severely curtail tax credits and now this.
    Why is it that Chancellors continue to meddle with stealth taxes and in attacking peoples' savings instead of taking a far more honest, common sense approach to the problem?
    The simple fact is that the standard rate of income tax has been progressively reduced from 35% right down to its present level of 20%, whilst at the same time, the basic personal allowance has been increased to £10,000, both resulting in once unimaginable reductions in income tax.
    The truth of the matter is that these reductions have gone too far in terms of what the country can and can't afford.
    The Chancellor should stop messing about and announce at least a 2p or 3p increase in the basic rate of income tax, with unfortunately the prospect of further rises to come.
    Hopefully such necessary action might just help to shore up the value of Sterling which has fallen by an alarming 10% or more over just the last few weeks.

    My employer is an exporter, I'm a taxpayer. This "solution" sounds terrible.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    shiney2 said:


    An unexpected pro-brexit.

    The (financial) times are a changing..

    https://tinyurl.com/hjyqx95

    (clear your cache if the paywall appears).

    I'm a big fan of Merryn's, of Brexit, and of her second point in that piece.

    I'm less a believer in point one. Why? Because, however you cut it, private sector debt levels are simply lower in the Eurozone. The St Louis Federal Reserve has a website devoted to economic data (called, wonderfully, FRED) which can be found here: https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/

    In it they have fabulously detailed data on debts by country. And while the Eurozone has many, many problems, debt is simply not one of them. In the UK, household debt is (what) 170% of GDP. It's more than 100% in a whole bunch of major economies. In Italy, France and Germany, it's barely more than 50%. This doesn't mean these economies are all in great shape (obviously), but it means expecting that the next Eurozone crisis will emerge from over indebted consumers on the continent is a classic example of recency bias (the UK and the US has housing debt crises therefore...), rather than any kind of sensible analysis of the data.

    No household debt is half that, 85% of GDP and has been falling for years: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/households-debt-to-gdp

    For some reason that FRED site is actually reporting our household debt to income ratio which is how the UK typically measures debt ratios but is not the international standard, debt to GDP is.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446

    Trump and brexit.

    Millions of words and tweets. Neither gonna happen in reaching their goal....

    Goal? As in:

    West Ham 1-0 Spurs?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164

    The Republican Party should have used AV to select their nominee.

    I reckon AV would be the only way to stop Trump getting the nomination

    Trump would now win enough voters from other dropped out candidates to get over 50%, though the main winner of AV would be Cruz
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    According to The Daily Telegraph, George Osborne has abandoned plans for a tax raid on the pensions of millions of middle-class workers in his forthcoming Budget after a furious backlash from Tory MPs.
    The severely wounded Chancellor is clearly struggling to square the circle in attempting to keep Government borrowing under control. Last year he was forced to capitulate as regards plans to severely curtail tax credits and now this.
    Why is it that Chancellors continue to meddle with stealth taxes and in attacking peoples' savings instead of taking a far more honest, common sense approach to the problem?
    The simple fact is that the standard rate of income tax has been progressively reduced from 35% right down to its present level of 20%, whilst at the same time, the basic personal allowance has been increased to £10,000, both resulting in once unimaginable reductions in income tax.
    The truth of the matter is that these reductions have gone too far in terms of what the country can and can't afford.
    The Chancellor should stop messing about and announce at least a 2p or 3p increase in the basic rate of income tax, with unfortunately the prospect of further rises to come.
    Hopefully such necessary action might just help to shore up the value of Sterling which has fallen by an alarming 10% or more over just the last few weeks.

    My employer is an exporter, I'm a taxpayer. This "solution" sounds terrible.
    Not as terrible as racking up more and more ten of billions of debt year after year and the inevitable consequenies of doing so, which frankly successive Chancellors have chosen to ignore because it was politically expedient to ignore doing the necessary, i.e. raising taxes sufficiently. Btw, why does your employer need an ever reducing Sterling exchange rate in order to survive - successful economies, e.g Germany, etc tend to do exactly the opposite?
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    The Republican Party should have used AV to select their nominee.

    I reckon AV would be the only way to stop Trump getting the nomination

    Trump would now win enough voters from other dropped out candidates to get over 50%, though the main winner of AV would be Cruz
    When I voted in Gwinnett Tuesday there were 13 names on the Republican ballot, and only 6 were still in the race. 2 more gone since then. There were several puzzled looking folks with fingers hovering over the touch screen on the voting machines.

    http://patch.com/georgia/lawrenceville-ga/presidential-primary-results-trump-edged-rubio-gwinnett
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Republican Party should have used AV to select their nominee.

    I reckon AV would be the only way to stop Trump getting the nomination

    Trump would now win enough voters from other dropped out candidates to get over 50%, though the main winner of AV would be Cruz
    When I voted in Gwinnett Tuesday there were 13 names on the Republican ballot, and only 6 were still in the race. 2 more gone since then. There were several puzzled looking folks with fingers hovering over the touch screen on the voting machines.

    http://patch.com/georgia/lawrenceville-ga/presidential-primary-results-trump-edged-rubio-gwinnett
    Even Jeb Bush still won a few votes on Tuesday
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Republican Party should have used AV to select their nominee.

    I reckon AV would be the only way to stop Trump getting the nomination

    Trump would now win enough voters from other dropped out candidates to get over 50%, though the main winner of AV would be Cruz
    When I voted in Gwinnett Tuesday there were 13 names on the Republican ballot, and only 6 were still in the race. 2 more gone since then. There were several puzzled looking folks with fingers hovering over the touch screen on the voting machines.

    http://patch.com/georgia/lawrenceville-ga/presidential-primary-results-trump-edged-rubio-gwinnett
    Even Jeb Bush still won a few votes on Tuesday
    The triumph of the uncluttered mind ;)
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Cruz seems to be fading in the national polls, advantage Rubio...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    RodCrosby said:

    Cruz seems to be fading in the national polls, advantage Rubio...

    2 polls today from Trafalgar Group showing Cruz Trump's main rival

    Kansas
    Trump 35
    Cruz 29
    Rubio 17
    Kasich 13
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4lhKxf9pMitZjBsU0tIVEY2ZGM/view

    Michigan
    Trump 42
    Cruz 20
    Kasich 18
    Rubio 14
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4lhKxf9pMitVk1YRTVOVnVTTFk/view
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Cruz seems to be fading in the national polls, advantage Rubio...

    2 polls today from Trafalgar Group showing Cruz Trump's main rival

    Kansas
    Trump 35
    Cruz 29
    Rubio 17
    Kasich 13
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4lhKxf9pMitZjBsU0tIVEY2ZGM/view

    Michigan
    Trump 42
    Cruz 20
    Kasich 18
    Rubio 14
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4lhKxf9pMitVk1YRTVOVnVTTFk/view
    as I said, in the national polls...
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    RobD said:
    May as well vote to scrap the USA - it was founded by slave owners.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Cruz seems to be fading in the national polls, advantage Rubio...

    2 polls today from Trafalgar Group showing Cruz Trump's main rival

    Kansas
    Trump 35
    Cruz 29
    Rubio 17
    Kasich 13
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4lhKxf9pMitZjBsU0tIVEY2ZGM/view

    Michigan
    Trump 42
    Cruz 20
    Kasich 18
    Rubio 14
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4lhKxf9pMitVk1YRTVOVnVTTFk/view
    as I said, in the national polls...
    As far as I can see there are no new national polls and it is state delegates which count, anyway will see what tomorrow night brings, goodnight
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    RodCrosby said:

    RobD said:
    May as well vote to scrap the USA - it was founded by slave owners.
    Her Majesty will certainly approve. Now, who would make a good Governor/Viceroy? :D
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RobD said:
    May as well vote to scrap the USA - it was founded by slave owners.
    Her Majesty will certainly approve. Now, who would make a good Governor/Viceroy? :D
    Boris - the numpty was born there, after all...
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    RodCrosby said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RobD said:
    May as well vote to scrap the USA - it was founded by slave owners.
    Her Majesty will certainly approve. Now, who would make a good Governor/Viceroy? :D
    Boris - the numpty was born there, after all...
    An exquisite choice. Boris, Viceroy of the American Dominions. That surely won't go to his head! ;)
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446
    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    RobD said:
    May as well vote to scrap the USA - it was founded by slave owners.
    Her Majesty will certainly approve. Now, who would make a good Governor/Viceroy? :D
    Boris - the numpty was born there, after all...
    An exquisite choice. Boris, Viceroy of the American Dominions. That surely won't go to his head! ;)
    "Donnez-moi un break!" :lol:
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    shiney2 said:


    An unexpected pro-brexit.

    The (financial) times are a changing..

    https://tinyurl.com/hjyqx95

    (clear your cache if the paywall appears).

    Interesting argument against the 'received wisdom':

    Scotland. Voting Brexit seems to me to be the best chance we have to save the union. The SNP is threatening to hold another referendum if we vote out. I suspect they don’t really want to (they do good threats). But their members may force them into it and Westminster may allow it (it isn’t a devolved issue). If they do, they won’t win.

    The falling oil price has destroyed an already ropey economic case. And the way the timing works, the UK would already be out of the EU before Scotland was out of the UK — leaving it stranded in the North Sea while it reapplied — in the full knowledge that it would have to take the euro and the EU’s fiscal limits with no UK-style federal transfers. Who would vote for that? Quite. And another decisive loss really would be the end of the matter. Vote Brexit to save the union.

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    shiney2 said:


    An unexpected pro-brexit.

    The (financial) times are a changing..

    https://tinyurl.com/hjyqx95

    (clear your cache if the paywall appears).

    Interesting argument against the 'received wisdom':

    Scotland. Voting Brexit seems to me to be the best chance we have to save the union. The SNP is threatening to hold another referendum if we vote out. I suspect they don’t really want to (they do good threats). But their members may force them into it and Westminster may allow it (it isn’t a devolved issue). If they do, they won’t win.

    The falling oil price has destroyed an already ropey economic case. And the way the timing works, the UK would already be out of the EU before Scotland was out of the UK — leaving it stranded in the North Sea while it reapplied — in the full knowledge that it would have to take the euro and the EU’s fiscal limits with no UK-style federal transfers. Who would vote for that? Quite. And another decisive loss really would be the end of the matter. Vote Brexit to save the union.

    A second democratic mandate for the Union in almost as many years? ;)
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    shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    " Interesting argument against the 'received wisdom'


    Given the timetable of any Scotref2 is not a devolved matter, she seems to have a point.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    surbiton said:

    Just saw the Local Election results in the previous thread.

    What's happening to the Tory vote ? Falling off a cliff !

    A 9.5% Swing to the Lib Dems and 7% to Labour?

    In contests where seats didn't change hands (CON & LAB Holds)?

    Some cliff!

    (No, I'm not counting their HOLD where there wasn't a Lib Dem in the previous election....)
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    RobD said:

    shiney2 said:


    An unexpected pro-brexit.

    The (financial) times are a changing..

    https://tinyurl.com/hjyqx95

    (clear your cache if the paywall appears).

    Interesting argument against the 'received wisdom':

    Scotland. Voting Brexit seems to me to be the best chance we have to save the union. The SNP is threatening to hold another referendum if we vote out. I suspect they don’t really want to (they do good threats). But their members may force them into it and Westminster may allow it (it isn’t a devolved issue). If they do, they won’t win.

    The falling oil price has destroyed an already ropey economic case. And the way the timing works, the UK would already be out of the EU before Scotland was out of the UK — leaving it stranded in the North Sea while it reapplied — in the full knowledge that it would have to take the euro and the EU’s fiscal limits with no UK-style federal transfers. Who would vote for that? Quite. And another decisive loss really would be the end of the matter. Vote Brexit to save the union.

    A second democratic mandate for the Union in almost as many years? ;)
    Which is why Nicola really doesn't want to hold it.....
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    surbiton said:

    Just saw the Local Election results in the previous thread.

    What's happening to the Tory vote ? Falling off a cliff !

    A 9.5% Swing to the Lib Dems and 7% to Labour?

    In contests where seats didn't change hands (CON & LAB Holds)?

    Some cliff!

    (No, I'm not counting their HOLD where there wasn't a Lib Dem in the previous election....)
    Shy Tories are now Efficient Tories. Looking forward to sweeping gains at the locals... :D
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Impressive! Under 10% of MPs and nearly 50% of Credit card suspensions:

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/five-snp-mps-among-a-dozen-who-racked-up-unpaid-expenses-1-4043933
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    On topic - the GOP establishment will enjoy as much success as the Labour establishment did in stopping Corbyn - they don't understand the problem they are facing and why many activists think Trump/Corbyn is the answer.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    The man who commented on Trumps hands:

    http://i.imgur.com/SfxWNCq.jpg

    titter
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Interesting statistics:

    63% of white men voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980
    63% of white men voted for George Bush snr. in 1988
    62% of white men voted for George W. Bush in 2004
    62% of white men voted for Mitt Romney in 2012

    Hashtag diminishing demographic

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/donald-trump-needs-7-of-10-white-guys-213699?utm_content=buffered237&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#ixzz41vy43OHg
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    According to The Daily Telegraph, George Osborne has abandoned plans for a tax raid on the pensions of millions of middle-class workers in his forthcoming Budget after a furious backlash from Tory MPs.
    The severely wounded Chancellor is clearly struggling to square the circle in attempting to keep Government borrowing under control. Last year he was forced to capitulate as regards plans to severely curtail tax credits and now this.
    Why is it that Chancellors continue to meddle with stealth taxes and in attacking peoples' savings instead of taking a far more honest, common sense approach to the problem?
    The simple fact is that the standard rate of income tax has been progressively reduced from 35% right down to its present level of 20%, whilst at the same time, the basic personal allowance has been increased to £10,000, both resulting in once unimaginable reductions in income tax.
    The truth of the matter is that these reductions have gone too far in terms of what the country can and can't afford.
    The Chancellor should stop messing about and announce at least a 2p or 3p increase in the basic rate of income tax, with unfortunately the prospect of further rises to come.
    Hopefully such necessary action might just help to shore up the value of Sterling which has fallen by an alarming 10% or more over just the last few weeks.

    I agree. The persistance of the deficit despite the stage we are in the economic cycle does mean that we need tax rises. Stealth taxes that further damage pension planning are not wise. A simple and honest uptick in income tax is the fairest way.
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    (Two threads ago)

    If the glove don't fit you can't convict.
    If he was so obviously guilty why did the trial take an eternity and the verdict delivered in an instant?
    He may have done it. But the LAPD and the DA made a total fist of it. Not to mention the crime scene investigators.

    I have never understood why the pro-O.J. morons keep on chanting "if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit" as if they somehow think that the glove didn't fit, when it quite cleasrly and obviously did fit. The reason why the trial took a long time was because there was a lot of evidence to prove that O.J. Simpson committed the murders. the reason why he was found not guilty fairly quickly was because the members of the jury were idiots.

    The basic historical fact, accepted by anybody who has more than minus infinity brain cells, is that O.J. Simpson committed the murders. That, in the long term (i.e. when we are all dead and it's all in the history books), matters far more than petty-bourgeois deviations such as punishment or acquittal or imprisonment or freedom.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977

    According to The Daily Telegraph, George Osborne has abandoned plans for a tax raid on the pensions of millions of middle-class workers in his forthcoming Budget after a furious backlash from Tory MPs.
    The severely wounded Chancellor is clearly struggling to square the circle in attempting to keep Government borrowing under control. Last year he was forced to capitulate as regards plans to severely curtail tax credits and now this.
    Why is it that Chancellors continue to meddle with stealth taxes and in attacking peoples' savings instead of taking a far more honest, common sense approach to the problem?
    The simple fact is that the standard rate of income tax has been progressively reduced from 35% right down to its present level of 20%, whilst at the same time, the basic personal allowance has been increased to £10,000, both resulting in once unimaginable reductions in income tax.
    The truth of the matter is that these reductions have gone too far in terms of what the country can and can't afford.
    The Chancellor should stop messing about and announce at least a 2p or 3p increase in the basic rate of income tax, with unfortunately the prospect of further rises to come.
    Hopefully such necessary action might just help to shore up the value of Sterling which has fallen by an alarming 10% or more over just the last few weeks.

    I agree. The persistance of the deficit despite the stage we are in the economic cycle does mean that we need tax rises. Stealth taxes that further damage pension planning are not wise. A simple and honest uptick in income tax is the fairest way.

    He'd have to do it immediately, not with a year's notice, for it to have any affect, except to anger people. But then George is only interested in one thing - becoming PM - so income tax rises are out of the question.

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    JohnLoony said:

    (Two threads ago)

    If the glove don't fit you can't convict.
    If he was so obviously guilty why did the trial take an eternity and the verdict delivered in an instant?
    He may have done it. But the LAPD and the DA made a total fist of it. Not to mention the crime scene investigators.

    The basic historical fact, accepted by anybody who has more than minus infinity brain cells, is that O.J. Simpson committed the murders.
    Yes, but the jury had to be convinced 'beyond reasonable doubt' - IIRC, none of the jury afterwards said 'OJ was innocent'.....The prosecution - and the Judge - enjoyed their 5 months of fame far too much......
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    RobD said:

    shiney2 said:


    An unexpected pro-brexit.

    The (financial) times are a changing..

    https://tinyurl.com/hjyqx95

    (clear your cache if the paywall appears).

    Interesting argument against the 'received wisdom':

    Scotland. Voting Brexit seems to me to be the best chance we have to save the union. The SNP is threatening to hold another referendum if we vote out. I suspect they don’t really want to (they do good threats). But their members may force them into it and Westminster may allow it (it isn’t a devolved issue). If they do, they won’t win.

    The falling oil price has destroyed an already ropey economic case. And the way the timing works, the UK would already be out of the EU before Scotland was out of the UK — leaving it stranded in the North Sea while it reapplied — in the full knowledge that it would have to take the euro and the EU’s fiscal limits with no UK-style federal transfers. Who would vote for that? Quite. And another decisive loss really would be the end of the matter. Vote Brexit to save the union.

    A second democratic mandate for the Union in almost as many years? ;)
    Which is why Nicola really doesn't want to hold it.....
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/?cartoon=12178377&cc=12181295
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    JohnLoony said:

    Interesting statistics:

    63% of white men voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980
    63% of white men voted for George Bush snr. in 1988
    62% of white men voted for George W. Bush in 2004
    62% of white men voted for Mitt Romney in 2012

    Hashtag diminishing demographic

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/donald-trump-needs-7-of-10-white-guys-213699?utm_content=buffered237&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#ixzz41vy43OHg

    A very useful article for PBers.

    Additionally the hispanic demographic is unsurprisingly proving difficult for Trump. Romney secured 27% of their vote in 12, presently the best estimate is that Trump is managing only 15% of this increasingly important bloc that is vital in a number of swing states.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,900
    Funny thing but flicking through the last few threads it occurs to me that had Labour chosen ANY of the four other lacklustre candidates they would now more than likely be enjoying seriously large leads in the polls.

    The Tories seem to be imploding to no one's advantage. Osborne's plan to remove top rate tax relief on pension contributions is so eminently fair to make it a no brainer yet he cant even get it through. Corbyn and his backers have a lot to answer for
  • Options

    According to The Daily Telegraph, George Osborne has abandoned plans for a tax raid on the pensions of millions of middle-class workers in his forthcoming Budget after a furious backlash from Tory MPs.
    The severely wounded Chancellor is clearly struggling to square the circle in attempting to keep Government borrowing under control. Last year he was forced to capitulate as regards plans to severely curtail tax credits and now this.
    Why is it that Chancellors continue to meddle with stealth taxes and in attacking peoples' savings instead of taking a far more honest, common sense approach to the problem?
    The simple fact is that the standard rate of income tax has been progressively reduced from 35% right down to its present level of 20%, whilst at the same time, the basic personal allowance has been increased to £10,000, both resulting in once unimaginable reductions in income tax.
    The truth of the matter is that these reductions have gone too far in terms of what the country can and can't afford.
    The Chancellor should stop messing about and announce at least a 2p or 3p increase in the basic rate of income tax, with unfortunately the prospect of further rises to come.
    Hopefully such necessary action might just help to shore up the value of Sterling which has fallen by an alarming 10% or more over just the last few weeks.

    I agree. The persistance of the deficit despite the stage we are in the economic cycle does mean that we need tax rises. Stealth taxes that further damage pension planning are not wise. A simple and honest uptick in income tax is the fairest way.

    He'd have to do it immediately, not with a year's notice, for it to have any affect, except to anger people. But then George is only interested in one thing - becoming PM - so income tax rises are out of the question.

    How much would 5p on petrol raise? That's ripe surely given current oil prices.
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790

    JohnLoony said:

    (Two threads ago)

    If the glove don't fit you can't convict.
    If he was so obviously guilty why did the trial take an eternity and the verdict delivered in an instant?
    He may have done it. But the LAPD and the DA made a total fist of it. Not to mention the crime scene investigators.

    The basic historical fact, accepted by anybody who has more than minus infinity brain cells, is that O.J. Simpson committed the murders.
    Yes, but the jury had to be convinced 'beyond reasonable doubt' - IIRC, none of the jury afterwards said 'OJ was innocent'.....The prosecution - and the Judge - enjoyed their 5 months of fame far too much......
    There isn't any "Yes, but". Anybody with more than minus infinity brain cells was convinced beyond reasonable doubt.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    JackW said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Interesting statistics:

    63% of white men voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980
    63% of white men voted for George Bush snr. in 1988
    62% of white men voted for George W. Bush in 2004
    62% of white men voted for Mitt Romney in 2012

    Hashtag diminishing demographic

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/donald-trump-needs-7-of-10-white-guys-213699?utm_content=buffered237&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#ixzz41vy43OHg

    A very useful article for PBers.

    Additionally the hispanic demographic is unsurprisingly proving difficult for Trump. Romney secured 27% of their vote in 12, presently the best estimate is that Trump is managing only 15% of this increasingly important bloc that is vital in a number of swing states.
    Jack, do you think it will ever be possible again for a white male to win the White House as the Republican candidate?
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    The saddos and anoraks on here obsessing about trivia such as Brexit, Trump and Osborne need some perspective, the most important event (of any description) in decades takes place in North London later today. I'd like to say I'm looking forward to it but any NLD is excrutiating to endure, this one is dreadful. Couldn't begin to predict an outcome.

    COYS

    BTW all the people on here calling for tax rises, here's an idea: let's spend less. It might just catch on one day.
  • Options
    Roger said:

    Funny thing but flicking through the last few threads it occurs to me that had Labour chosen ANY of the four other lacklustre candidates they would now more than likely be enjoying seriously large leads in the polls.

    The Tories seem to be imploding to no one's advantage. Osborne's plan to remove top rate tax relief on pension contributions is so eminently fair to make it a no brainer yet he cant even get it through. Corbyn and his backers have a lot to answer for

    Yet labour kept it for all 13 years... No brainer?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The saddos and anoraks on here obsessing about trivia such as Brexit, Trump and Osborne need some perspective, the most important event (of any description) in decades takes place in North London later today. I'd like to say I'm looking forward to it but any NLD is excrutiating to endure, this one is dreadful. Couldn't begin to predict an outcome.

    COYS

    BTW all the people on here calling for tax rises, here's an idea: let's spend less. It might just catch on one day.

    Government spending is going down in real terms. Such a shame it was ramped up so fast in the first place. It will take decades to reverse the criminally negligent damage the last government inflicted on our country.

    And to think the party has gone from a delusional leader who couldn't see anything wrong with his actions, to a would-be PM who's response to a basic "did you spend too much" was an outright "no", to a complete loon who thinks not only that we should be buddy buddy with all the world's worst scumbags but that we aren't spending enough.
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    bb63..I agree about spending less...right across the board..
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    James Downie in the "Washington Post" on why in 2016 :

    Donald Trump Will Not Be Elected President Of The United States

    DTWNBEPOTUS

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-donald-trump-wont-be-elected-president/2016/03/03/50dafd0e-e169-11e5-9c36-e1902f6b6571_story.html
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    The saddos and anoraks on here obsessing about trivia such as Brexit, Trump and Osborne need some perspective, the most important event (of any description) in decades takes place in North London later today. I'd like to say I'm looking forward to it but any NLD is excrutiating to endure, this one is dreadful. Couldn't begin to predict an outcome.

    COYS

    BTW all the people on here calling for tax rises, here's an idea: let's spend less. It might just catch on one day.

    Two teams that don't win very much playing to tend towards who will come closest to not not winning much this year. And the big deal is?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Roger said:

    Osborne's plan to remove top rate tax relief on pension contributions is so eminently fair to make it a no brainer yet he cant even get it through. Corbyn and his backers have a lot to answer for

    But it will affect MPs and Journalists "typical tax payers' (on twice the average wage......)
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    bb63..I agree about spending less...right across the board..

    You might agree and you may well be one of the exceptions who are happy to receive less from the state in cash and/or services, on ideological grounds. However, that such a view is exceptional explains why it's so hard for a government to achieve in a democracy.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,900

    Roger said:

    Funny thing but flicking through the last few threads it occurs to me that had Labour chosen ANY of the four other lacklustre candidates they would now more than likely be enjoying seriously large leads in the polls.

    The Tories seem to be imploding to no one's advantage. Osborne's plan to remove top rate tax relief on pension contributions is so eminently fair to make it a no brainer yet he cant even get it through. Corbyn and his backers have a lot to answer for

    Yet labour kept it for all 13 years... No brainer?
    I know and every year it was suggested then put away again as the vested interests made a noise and it didn't happen. It was the same with MIRAS which was even more unfair until someone finally plucked up the courage.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Roger said:

    Funny thing but flicking through the last few threads it occurs to me that had Labour chosen ANY of the four other lacklustre candidates they would now more than likely be enjoying seriously large leads in the polls.

    The Tories seem to be imploding to no one's advantage. Osborne's plan to remove top rate tax relief on pension contributions is so eminently fair to make it a no brainer yet he cant even get it through. Corbyn and his backers have a lot to answer for

    Alternatively, the Tories feel they have a licence to squabble because of Corbyn. Which is very dangerous as if Corbyn goes, the Tory divisions won't just go with it.
  • Options

    bb63..I agree about spending less...right across the board..

    You might agree and you may well be one of the exceptions who are happy to receive less from the state in cash and/or services, on ideological grounds. However, that such a view is exceptional explains why it's so hard for a government to achieve in a democracy.
    Indeed, a low-tax, low-spend polity and a democratic one may be alternatives, not add-ons.

  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    The saddos and anoraks on here obsessing about trivia such as Brexit, Trump and Osborne need some perspective, the most important event (of any description) in decades takes place in North London later today. I'd like to say I'm looking forward to it but any NLD is excrutiating to endure, this one is dreadful. Couldn't begin to predict an outcome.

    COYS

    BTW all the people on here calling for tax rises, here's an idea: let's spend less. It might just catch on one day.

    Two teams that don't win very much playing to tend towards who will come closest to not not winning much this year. And the big deal is?
    See what I mean about saddos and anoraks?
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,900
    I think there's a conspiracy going on. Corbyn is being propped up by wealthy Labour members and donors so that they can feel like they're sleeping with the angels when in fact they're making sure we have a permanent Tory government
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    bb63..I agree about spending less...right across the board..

    You might agree and you may well be one of the exceptions who are happy to receive less from the state in cash and/or services, on ideological grounds. However, that such a view is exceptional explains why it's so hard for a government to achieve in a democracy.
    Though despite being difficult to achieve, this government is achieving it. Government spending in real terms is falling again and again.

    How many other governments have achieved that? Not many, it only happened twice under Thatcher.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tlg86 said:

    JackW said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Interesting statistics:

    63% of white men voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980
    63% of white men voted for George Bush snr. in 1988
    62% of white men voted for George W. Bush in 2004
    62% of white men voted for Mitt Romney in 2012

    Hashtag diminishing demographic

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/donald-trump-needs-7-of-10-white-guys-213699?utm_content=buffered237&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#ixzz41vy43OHg

    A very useful article for PBers.

    Additionally the hispanic demographic is unsurprisingly proving difficult for Trump. Romney secured 27% of their vote in 12, presently the best estimate is that Trump is managing only 15% of this increasingly important bloc that is vital in a number of swing states.
    Jack, do you think it will ever be possible again for a white male to win the White House as the Republican candidate?
    Given the demographics it is hard to see any Republican in the White House.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    Roger said:

    Funny thing but flicking through the last few threads it occurs to me that had Labour chosen ANY of the four other lacklustre candidates they would now more than likely be enjoying seriously large leads in the polls.

    The Tories seem to be imploding to no one's advantage. Osborne's plan to remove top rate tax relief on pension contributions is so eminently fair to make it a no brainer yet he cant even get it through. Corbyn and his backers have a lot to answer for

    Alternatively, the Tories feel they have a licence to squabble because of Corbyn. Which is very dangerous as if Corbyn goes, the Tory divisions won't just go with it.
    Agreed. However it is sad that the pension tax relief is so heavily skewed against the average to low earners. The hysterics from Tebbitt/Fox/IDS are wholly irresponsible. There is no natural majority for their views in the country at large.
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited March 2016
    David Herdson All I get from the state is a pension of under £140 pw..I would get more if I stepped off the boat as an illegal..
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    tlg86 said:

    JackW said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Interesting statistics:

    63% of white men voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980
    63% of white men voted for George Bush snr. in 1988
    62% of white men voted for George W. Bush in 2004
    62% of white men voted for Mitt Romney in 2012

    Hashtag diminishing demographic

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/donald-trump-needs-7-of-10-white-guys-213699?utm_content=buffered237&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#ixzz41vy43OHg

    A very useful article for PBers.

    Additionally the hispanic demographic is unsurprisingly proving difficult for Trump. Romney secured 27% of their vote in 12, presently the best estimate is that Trump is managing only 15% of this increasingly important bloc that is vital in a number of swing states.
    Jack, do you think it will ever be possible again for a white male to win the White House as the Republican candidate?
    Given the demographics it is hard to see any Republican in the White House.
    It's only a few years since George W Bush won his second term. It's eminently possible for the Republicans to win again, they just may have to change in order to do so. Just like Labour have to change currently and the Tories pre-Cameron had to and Labour pre-Blair had to. It's the cycle of politics and the Republicans haven't reached rock bottom yet.

    American politics and its division of power makes it harder I suspect for parties to reach rock bottom though. It's hard to say the Republican message is unpopular when they control the House, the Senate and most of the time until a few weeks ago the SCOTUS.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Well that's one way to appeal to Brits thinking of Leaving
    In an astonishing attack on Eurosceptics, the European Commission president dismissed those who criticise the EU as forgetting its role in the years since the Second World War.

    The former prime minister of Luxembourg who heads the EU's bureaucracy in Brussels said: 'Europe gains whenever again we point out that Europe is a major project for peace.

    'Whosoever does not believe in Europe, who doubts Europe, whoever despairs of Europe, should visit the military cemeteries in Europe.'
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3477073/EU-chief-provokes-fury-telling-Brexit-backers-visit-war-graves-think-quitting-EU.html
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    felix said:

    Roger said:

    Funny thing but flicking through the last few threads it occurs to me that had Labour chosen ANY of the four other lacklustre candidates they would now more than likely be enjoying seriously large leads in the polls.

    The Tories seem to be imploding to no one's advantage. Osborne's plan to remove top rate tax relief on pension contributions is so eminently fair to make it a no brainer yet he cant even get it through. Corbyn and his backers have a lot to answer for

    Alternatively, the Tories feel they have a licence to squabble because of Corbyn. Which is very dangerous as if Corbyn goes, the Tory divisions won't just go with it.
    Agreed. However it is sad that the pension tax relief is so heavily skewed against the average to low earners. The hysterics from Tebbitt/Fox/IDS are wholly irresponsible. There is no natural majority for their views in the country at large.
    Not as long as the poorest individual and the richest have one vote each. Why do you suppose the Tory Right supports that? The penny will drop amongst them before long: restore the Tory majority in the Upper House by electing it on a property franchise...

  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    felix said:

    Roger said:

    Funny thing but flicking through the last few threads it occurs to me that had Labour chosen ANY of the four other lacklustre candidates they would now more than likely be enjoying seriously large leads in the polls.

    The Tories seem to be imploding to no one's advantage. Osborne's plan to remove top rate tax relief on pension contributions is so eminently fair to make it a no brainer yet he cant even get it through. Corbyn and his backers have a lot to answer for

    Alternatively, the Tories feel they have a licence to squabble because of Corbyn. Which is very dangerous as if Corbyn goes, the Tory divisions won't just go with it.
    Agreed. However it is sad that the pension tax relief is so heavily skewed against the average to low earners. The hysterics from Tebbitt/Fox/IDS are wholly irresponsible. There is no natural majority for their views in the country at large.
    It's not that skewed, you don't get taxed on what you contribute that is the same throughout.

    Sure higher earners avoid (perfectly legally) more tax but that's because they're paying more tax from what they earn themselves, not because money is being gifted to them. We should never forget that.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Funny thing but flicking through the last few threads it occurs to me that had Labour chosen ANY of the four other lacklustre candidates they would now more than likely be enjoying seriously large leads in the polls.

    The Tories seem to be imploding to no one's advantage. Osborne's plan to remove top rate tax relief on pension contributions is so eminently fair to make it a no brainer yet he cant even get it through. Corbyn and his backers have a lot to answer for

    Yet labour kept it for all 13 years... No brainer?
    I know and every year it was suggested then put away again as the vested interests made a noise and it didn't happen. It was the same with MIRAS which was even more unfair until someone finally plucked up the courage.
    Higher rate pension tax relief is vey reasonable, as pension contributions are deferred income, and it is in the governments interest for people to save for their own retirement.

    It only became a problem (or tax dodge) when Labour took the ceiling off the maximum contributions as a percentage of income, and it became possible to make large one off payments.
This discussion has been closed.