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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The White House Race, the referendum and the political bets

SystemSystem Posts: 11,705
edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The White House Race, the referendum and the political bets of the week in the PB/Polling Matters TV Show

Our fourth pilot TV show sees Keiran Pedley of Polling Matters and myself welcome the Labour peer and Oxford academic, Lord (Stewart) Wood of Anfield and the media relations director of William Hill, Graham Sharpe.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    First!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Will enjoy watching this. Thanks Mike, Kieran & the team involved!
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited March 2016
    This is really good.

    If I may offer one suggestion;

    It would be great to have the mike/keiran/guests suggest odds/%'ages if views differ from the BF market.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,788
    Oh dear.......Lord Wood's message of the Exiters struggling to paint a picture of what 'Exit' looks like will not be popular......
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,788
    Pong said:

    This is really good.

    If I may offer one suggestion;

    It would be great to have the mike/keiran/guests suggest odds/%'ages if views differ from the BF market.

    Agree - well done to all concerned.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Justice Dept. grants immunity to staffer who set up @HillaryClinton email server https://t.co/jucwTxq4s4 #tcot https://t.co/S7BRV6hiRQ
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,788
    Tartan Tories - Small 'c' conservative:

    In 2007, the SNP promised to scrap council tax, but Ms Sturgeon insisted the latest reform plans were “fair and progressive”. She waved aside suggestions that it was unfair to continue to base council tax payments on what properties were worth in 1991.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fd6c39ba-e06b-11e5-96b7-9f778349aba2.html#ixzz41oUEWSfZ

    So, if they weren't going to scrap Council Tax - why has it taken 9 years to come up with this?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,788

    Justice Dept. grants immunity to staffer who set up @HillaryClinton email server https://t.co/jucwTxq4s4 #tcot https://t.co/S7BRV6hiRQ

    From WPO three weeks ago:

    The involvement of so many individuals raises the possibility, as any lawyer would know, that immunity will be granted in exchange for testimony, tightening the noose around Clinton. And that is just one of Clinton’s problems.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/02/11/the-democrats-dilemma-clinton-may-not-be-salvageable/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_1_na
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Oh dear.......Lord Wood's message of the Exiters struggling to paint a picture of what 'Exit' looks like will not be popular......

    Well his message of, what precisely was his message for Ed Miliband, was so popular at the last election?

    Not to insult the guest but this was a tad puerile.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    Oh dear.......Lord Wood's message of the Exiters struggling to paint a picture of what 'Exit' looks like will not be popular......

    Well his message of, what precisely was his message for Ed Miliband, was so popular at the last election?

    Not to insult the guest but this was a tad puerile.
    ? Eh???
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Indeed ;)

    Do you think ST changed anything?

    Trump still value for POTUS?
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Pardonnez my asking, but what did Adam Johnson actually *do* ? The phrase "sexual activity with a child" is so vague that it doesn't actually tell us anything meaningful - and I haven't been following the trial in great detail. I had assumed that it was something relatively minor (i.e. not rape or anything like that) and that it would mean a sentence of a few months' imprisonment, but some of the news websites today are saying he might get 5 years or 10 years. So it must be something more serious than I had thought.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JohnLoony said:

    Pardonnez my asking, but what did Adam Johnson actually *do* ? The phrase "sexual activity with a child" is so vague that it doesn't actually tell us anything meaningful - and I haven't been following the trial in great detail. I had assumed that it was something relatively minor (i.e. not rape or anything like that) and that it would mean a sentence of a few months' imprisonment, but some of the news websites today are saying he might get 5 years or 10 years. So it must be something more serious than I had thought.

    He was cleared of getting oral sex, convicted of touching her genitals.

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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,903
    I can only think of once before in my lifetime where I've thought the result of a vote was as important as Hilary beating Trump and the 'Remain' side defeating 'Leave' and that was an internal vote among Tory MP's in 1990

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @patrickwintour: Boris Johnson & George Osborne 'to debate Brexit in front of 12,000-strong audience 48 hours before the referendum' https://t.co/QLi3tY5MJf
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @CharlotteV: Rolls-Royce warns staff about risks of Brexit https://t.co/ypFdTa5GSD < and an extraordinary tin-foil hat rebuttal from a leave campaign!
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_P said:

    @CharlotteV: Rolls-Royce warns staff about risks of Brexit https://t.co/ypFdTa5GSD < and an extraordinary tin-foil hat rebuttal from a leave campaign!

    Where's the tin foil hat bit?

    This was the only rebuttal I could see:

    “Big foreign, multinational companies like the EU because they spend millions lobbying it in order to stitch up the rules in their favour – forcing smaller players out of business.”

    We see that in my sector - both at a UK level and an EU level. Big companies like regulation because (a) it creates barriers to entry and (b) because they are larger they can amortise the fixed costs across a greater revenue base, so it creates a competitive advantage against smaller firms.

    Vote Leave's response appears entirely reasonable - although, as with all political positions it could be rebutted - but absolutely not "tin foil"
  • Options
    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    I can understand why Catholics might. But they're nearly all scary anyway. I say "nearly" because I have a very old friend who has returned to Holy Mother Church. But he's Italian, and they wear their religion lightly.

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Scott_P said:

    @patrickwintour: Boris Johnson & George Osborne 'to debate Brexit in front of 12,000-strong audience 48 hours before the referendum' https://t.co/QLi3tY5MJf

    Is putting Osborne in a stadium wise? Will all 12,000 boo him? Or just most?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    Trump is a bit of a buffoon at times, but at heart not that radical. Ted Cruz is much more purposeful, and I do not like his purpose! I cannot see him being a good friend of the UK.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    edited March 2016
    I wonder if creating the persona of a centenarian Jacobite dodgy pie-maker will fall foul of this?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35712772

    "Internet "trolls" could face criminal charges for creating fake profiles, according to guidance being considered for prosecutors in England and Wales.

    The Crown Prosecution Service says adults should be charged if they use fake social media IDs to harass others.

    Cases would also follow if posts were indecent, grossly offensive or so false they caused distress and anxiety."

    Troubling times for Project Fear posters here?
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,903
    OT Cameron's scriptwriters have raised their game recently. I just heard him describe Corbyn's economic policy follwing the appointment of financial avisor Yanis Varoufakis the Greek held responsible for leaving their economy in ruins as 'Acropolis Now'.

    Mind you the material has got a lot better
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Lord Wood

    Who?
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    Cruz is (or was) a Tea Party headbanger. He is not the Establishment candidate, nor is he a moderate.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    Trump is a bit of a buffoon at times, but at heart not that radical. Ted Cruz is much more purposeful, and I do not like his purpose! I cannot see him being a good friend of the UK.
    Although, President Ted Cruz would probably take any international friends he could get, so scarce would they be.

    He'd probably take North Korea's endorsement of him being a "worthy opponent".

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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Scott_P said:

    @patrickwintour: Boris Johnson & George Osborne 'to debate Brexit in front of 12,000-strong audience 48 hours before the referendum' https://t.co/QLi3tY5MJf

    Is putting Osborne in a stadium wise? Will all 12,000 boo him? Or just most?
    No doubt Nabavi will think it "impressive" that Osborne has flushed out dissenters.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048

    hunchman said:

    Moses_ said:

    watford30 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Tomorrow's Project Fear's headline "French to end Calais deal if UK exit EU" is getting a rehash in tomorrow papers. BBC tried that this one last week.

    In case of Brexit, Calais is presumably going to be filled with all those Brits who have been left stranded on holiday, surely?

    "British tourists could be left STRANDED ABROAD if voters back Brexit, ministers warn"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3468878/Brexit-destabilise-Britain-DECADE-uncertainty-jobs-banks-health-farming-Government-claims-official-report.html#ixzz41mnXIv5y



    What's the next scare?

    "British pensioners in Spain without pets to eat, WILL TURN ON EACH OTHER FOR FOOD"

    "In the event of Brexit, electricity from France will no longer work in British cables, leading to blackouts"

    The EU will demand we return all their oxygen from our air....and will dump all their carbon dioxide in our airspace, claiming we no longer meet our international obligations.

    Exiting the EU will LITERALLY LEAVE US GASPING FOR AIR.
    These constant statements coming out from project fear remind me of those stupid messages that roll across the ticker at the bottom of the screen when you play Sim City *

    * yes it's a guilty pleasure
    actories in the yellow industrial zone turning an ugly black...or the purple of the commercial zone turning an equally ugly mix of purple and black!

    When I was at school we had a game on the BBC Model B where you had to set tax rates and benefits levels and things, and if it was going well at election time you got reelected.

    One of the precocious nerdy kids playing this game, who out of respect for his privacy I won't name except to say that he is currently Member of Parliament for Dover, came up with the idea of setting unemployment benefit to a large negative number. This guaranteed reelection, as it not only created a strong incentive to work, which reduced unemployment to a fairly lot level, but also the 100,000 billionaires who continued to sign on provided enough money to pay for the rest of the government's spending.
    As anyone who has played a civilization game knows, when suffering from unpopularity caused by squalid, overcrowded cities and difficulty producing materials for an ongoing war effort, a good tactic is to have a feudal government system and speed up production of great works or military supplies at the cost of city population. Essentially, you work tens of thousands to death on what might be pointless building projects, reducing overcrowding at the same time. Never failed to please the cjtizens.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,788

    Scott_P said:

    @patrickwintour: Boris Johnson & George Osborne 'to debate Brexit in front of 12,000-strong audience 48 hours before the referendum' https://t.co/QLi3tY5MJf

    Is putting Osborne in a stadium wise? Will all 12,000 boo him? Or just most?
    That struck me as 'brave' as well.........

    Of course, it could be part of a plan to panic REMAINers out from behind their laptops and into the polling booth - seeing George duffed up by Boris......
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    edited March 2016
    Roger said:

    OT Cameron's scriptwriters have raised their game recently. I just heard him describe Corbyn's economic policy follwing the appointment of financial avisor Yanis Varoufakis the Greek held responsible for leaving their economy in ruins as 'Acropolis Now'.

    Mind you the material has got a lot better

    Roger, as a regular of pb.com, you will have read the Acropolis Now gag times aplenty. As, it appears, have the PM's speechwriters.

    *waves*
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002


    Although, President Ted Cruz would probably take any international friends he could get, so scarce would they be.

    Netanyahu would be the happiest world leader at Pres Cruz I think.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,788

    Troubling times for Project Fear posters here?

    Surely that would require them to be causing 'distress or anxiety'?

    Yet, daily we are assured they cause nowt but hilarity and general mirth?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,788
    edited March 2016
    Charles said:

    Scott_P said:

    @CharlotteV: Rolls-Royce warns staff about risks of Brexit https://t.co/ypFdTa5GSD < and an extraordinary tin-foil hat rebuttal from a leave campaign!

    Vote Leave's response appears entirely reasonable - although, as with all political positions it could be rebutted - but absolutely not "tin foil"
    Who knows what GRO said?

    But yes, VoteLeave, as usual, are sensible & level headed.....

    Edit - the letter itself appears unobjectionable:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35712537
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    Scott_P said:

    @patrickwintour: Boris Johnson & George Osborne 'to debate Brexit in front of 12,000-strong audience 48 hours before the referendum' https://t.co/QLi3tY5MJf

    Is putting Osborne in a stadium wise? Will all 12,000 boo him? Or just most?
    That struck me as 'brave' as well.........

    Of course, it could be part of a plan to panic REMAINers out from behind their laptops and into the polling booth - seeing George duffed up by Boris......
    Two words did spring to mind.

    Sheffield Rally.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    Scott_P said:

    @patrickwintour: Boris Johnson & George Osborne 'to debate Brexit in front of 12,000-strong audience 48 hours before the referendum' https://t.co/QLi3tY5MJf

    Boris coukd be terrible and George wouldn't get any benefit as people still like Boris more, but I suppose someone has to do it.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,903

    Roger said:

    OT Cameron's scriptwriters have raised their game recently. I just heard him describe Corbyn's economic policy follwing the appointment of financial avisor Yanis Varoufakis the Greek held responsible for leaving their economy in ruins as 'Acropolis Now'.

    Mind you the material has got a lot better

    Roger, as a regular of pb.com, you will have read the Acropolis Now gag times aplenty. As, it appears, have the PM's speechwriters.

    *waves*
    No I hadn't. So Dave owes you one?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    Troubling times for Project Fear posters here?

    Surely that would require them to be causing 'distress or anxiety'?

    Yet, daily we are assured they cause nowt but hilarity and general mirth?
    It would a question of criminal intent. Someone could have criminal intent to attack me. That I laughed when they chose to do so not with a knife or a hammer, but with a chrysanthemum, does not alter their intent.

    At least if this legislation goes through, the criminal law would be given the chance to explore whether there was a defence of "being a bit shit" and "not having got a life".
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,903
    Pulpstar said:


    Although, President Ted Cruz would probably take any international friends he could get, so scarce would they be.

    Netanyahu would be the happiest world leader at Pres Cruz I think.
    His first task apparently would be to move the US embassy into Jerusalem. Makes Trump's self financing wall with Mexico sound measured
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    If that debate goes ahead then I would expect Osborne to exceed expectations (he'll take preparing for it very seriously, and the expectations will be dire). Still, viewers will side with Boris. It would be dangerous for Remain if it goes ahead.

    Of course Conservative MPs would be watching closely to see if either man could make their case to the country.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @patrickwintour: Boris Johnson & George Osborne 'to debate Brexit in front of 12,000-strong audience 48 hours before the referendum' https://t.co/QLi3tY5MJf

    Boris coukd be terrible and George wouldn't get any benefit as people still like Boris more, but I suppose someone has to do it.
    He better get busy making his budget as anodyne and uncontroversial as possible then.
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    Wanderer said:

    If that debate goes ahead then I would expect Osborne to exceed expectations (he'll take preparing for it very seriously, and the expectations will be dire). Still, viewers will side with Boris. It would be dangerous for Remain if it goes ahead.

    Of course Conservative MPs would be watching closely to see if either man could make their case to the country.

    I thought Boris had already won the next election for the Tories - by a landslide.

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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'If that debate goes ahead'

    I'd be astonished if that debate goes ahead. It sounds like a political journalist's wet dream but for the Remain side it would be incredibly risky.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    Wanderer said:

    If that debate goes ahead then I would expect Osborne to exceed expectations (he'll take preparing for it very seriously, and the expectations will be dire). Still, viewers will side with Boris. It would be dangerous for Remain if it goes ahead.

    Of course Conservative MPs would be watching closely to see if either man could make their case to the country.

    Indyref debates made no difference and Darling beat Salmond in the first
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Wanderer said:

    If that debate goes ahead then I would expect Osborne to exceed expectations (he'll take preparing for it very seriously, and the expectations will be dire). Still, viewers will side with Boris. It would be dangerous for Remain if it goes ahead.

    Of course Conservative MPs would be watching closely to see if either man could make their case to the country.

    It would certainly be a mighty big leadership hustings. You'd have to hope even Boris might prepare for that one!

    But there could still be huge numbers of undecideds, 48 hours out. Imagine the impact if Osborne does come across as all smirky and evasive, and Boris nails the Churchillian rhetoric?
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT Cameron's scriptwriters have raised their game recently. I just heard him describe Corbyn's economic policy follwing the appointment of financial avisor Yanis Varoufakis the Greek held responsible for leaving their economy in ruins as 'Acropolis Now'.

    Mind you the material has got a lot better

    Roger, as a regular of pb.com, you will have read the Acropolis Now gag times aplenty. As, it appears, have the PM's speechwriters.

    *waves*
    No I hadn't. So Dave owes you one?
    It seems to have a pretty long career as a pun http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0122333/
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167

    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    Trump is a bit of a buffoon at times, but at heart not that radical. Ted Cruz is much more purposeful, and I do not like his purpose! I cannot see him being a good friend of the UK.
    As stated the only place Cruz would be welcomed is Israel although he and Trump would be more likely to back the UK if it does Brexit than Hillary Clinton would
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Scott_P said:

    @CharlotteV: Rolls-Royce warns staff about risks of Brexit https://t.co/ypFdTa5GSD < and an extraordinary tin-foil hat rebuttal from a leave campaign!

    Vote Leave's response appears entirely reasonable - although, as with all political positions it could be rebutted - but absolutely not "tin foil"
    Who knows what GRO said?

    But yes, VoteLeave, as usual, are sensible & level headed.....

    Edit - the letter itself appears unobjectionable:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35712537
    she linked to the Guardian article citing it as an example of tin foil. It wasn't. She's saying stuff that doesn't meet an objective standard of truth.
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    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    its funny how the calais story has gone from france contradicting cameron:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12147334/France-contradicts-Cameron-over-Calais-migrant-camps.html on the 8th february to now france bulldozing camps and now saying it will let the migrants cross the channel without checks: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35712463
    seems like pressure has been put on france to create fear by london
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT Cameron's scriptwriters have raised their game recently. I just heard him describe Corbyn's economic policy follwing the appointment of financial avisor Yanis Varoufakis the Greek held responsible for leaving their economy in ruins as 'Acropolis Now'.

    Mind you the material has got a lot better

    Roger, as a regular of pb.com, you will have read the Acropolis Now gag times aplenty. As, it appears, have the PM's speechwriters.

    *waves*
    No I hadn't. So Dave owes you one?
    It seems to have a pretty long career as a pun http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0122333/
    If only there were a close advisor to the PM who might have been in Australia between 1989 and 1992, we might have someone in the frame for that pun...
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    Trump is a bit of a buffoon at times, but at heart not that radical. Ted Cruz is much more purposeful, and I do not like his purpose! I cannot see him being a good friend of the UK.
    As stated the only place Cruz would be welcomed is Israel although he and Trump would be more likely to back the UK if it does Brexit than Hillary Clinton would
    Any American President will back the UK post-Brexit.

    They are excellent at dealing with the world as it is, not as they would like it to be.

    If it's in America's interests to be friends with an independent Britain they will be. Although, I would expect them to take full advantage of that to screw us in a free trade agreement ;)
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048

    Wanderer said:

    If that debate goes ahead then I would expect Osborne to exceed expectations (he'll take preparing for it very seriously, and the expectations will be dire). Still, viewers will side with Boris. It would be dangerous for Remain if it goes ahead.

    Of course Conservative MPs would be watching closely to see if either man could make their case to the country.

    It would certainly be a mighty big leadership hustings. You'd have to hope even Boris might prepare for that one!

    But there could still be huge numbers of undecideds, 48 hours out. Imagine the impact if Osborne does come across as all smirky and evasive, and Boris nails the Churchillian rhetoric?
    Given that is their default positions, not sure why remain would risk it. I know many remainers say things like 'leave need to explain this or that option' but I'm not so sure. Vague rhetoric about freedom might be enough in a contest where many people want to believe well thrive outside the stifling presence of the eu, and hold no love for the eu, and technical arguments from remainers coukd cone across as petty.

    I'm not convinced that it is the case such vagueness will be enough, but emotive appeal seems more effective than getting into a statistics fight or the like.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT Cameron's scriptwriters have raised their game recently. I just heard him describe Corbyn's economic policy follwing the appointment of financial avisor Yanis Varoufakis the Greek held responsible for leaving their economy in ruins as 'Acropolis Now'.

    Mind you the material has got a lot better

    Roger, as a regular of pb.com, you will have read the Acropolis Now gag times aplenty. As, it appears, have the PM's speechwriters.

    *waves*
    No I hadn't. So Dave owes you one?
    It seems to have a pretty long career as a pun http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0122333/
    If only there were a close advisor to the PM who might have been in Australia between 1989 and 1992, we might have someone in the frame for that pun...
    Worth a knighthood any day
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    ICM EU figures yesterday have England backing Leave 41% to 40% but the UK tied 41% to 41%.

    Tory voters back Remain 43% to 39% but 2015 Tory voters back Leave 37% to 44%
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,983
    Indigo said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @patrickwintour: Boris Johnson & George Osborne 'to debate Brexit in front of 12,000-strong audience 48 hours before the referendum' https://t.co/QLi3tY5MJf

    Boris coukd be terrible and George wouldn't get any benefit as people still like Boris more, but I suppose someone has to do it.
    He better get busy making his budget as anodyne and uncontroversial as possible then.
    It would certainly be "brave" of Osborne to take an axe to private pensions, in the run up to the vote.
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    kjohnw said:

    its funny how the calais story has gone from france contradicting cameron:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12147334/France-contradicts-Cameron-over-Calais-migrant-camps.html on the 8th february to now france bulldozing camps and now saying it will let the migrants cross the channel without checks: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35712463
    seems like pressure has been put on france to create fear by london

    '...adding that France would also roll out a "red carpet" to London's bankers if the UK voted to leave the EU.'

    'Come work in Paris and pay punitive French taxes'. Yes, they'll be sprinting to City Airport this morning.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    edited March 2016
    kjohnw said:

    its funny how the calais story has gone from france contradicting cameron:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12147334/France-contradicts-Cameron-over-Calais-migrant-camps.html on the 8th february to now france bulldozing camps and now saying it will let the migrants cross the channel without checks: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35712463
    seems like pressure has been put on france to create fear by london

    Just in passing, I noted who had made that comment quoted in the Mail:

    "....France's finance minister has said."

    Not Justice. Not Defence. Not Foreign Affairs and International Development.

    Finance.

    Can I suggest that looks a little, oh I don't know - sad? As if the Chancellor only has one French chum on his speed-dial who he can ask to help out with Project Fear?
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Sean_F said:

    Indigo said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @patrickwintour: Boris Johnson & George Osborne 'to debate Brexit in front of 12,000-strong audience 48 hours before the referendum' https://t.co/QLi3tY5MJf

    Boris coukd be terrible and George wouldn't get any benefit as people still like Boris more, but I suppose someone has to do it.
    He better get busy making his budget as anodyne and uncontroversial as possible then.
    It would certainly be "brave" of Osborne to take an axe to private pensions, in the run up to the vote.
    ... and then appear in front of a large audience against a wag like Boris who won't be able to avoid reminding the audience at any opportunity.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    Trump is a bit of a buffoon at times, but at heart not that radical. Ted Cruz is much more purposeful, and I do not like his purpose! I cannot see him being a good friend of the UK.
    As stated the only place Cruz would be welcomed is Israel although he and Trump would be more likely to back the UK if it does Brexit than Hillary Clinton would
    Any American President will back the UK post-Brexit.

    They are excellent at dealing with the world as it is, not as they would like it to be.

    If it's in America's interests to be friends with an independent Britain they will be. Although, I would expect them to take full advantage of that to screw us in a free trade agreement ;)
    It is precisely on any free trade agreement the Europhile Hillary Clinton would more likely screw the UK if it voted to quit the EU than Trump or Cruz would
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    '..adding that France would also roll out a "red carpet" to London's bankers if the UK voted to leave the EU.'

    I thought all those bankers had already moved to Paris (and Frankfurt) after the UK refused to join the euro.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    If that debate goes ahead then I would expect Osborne to exceed expectations (he'll take preparing for it very seriously, and the expectations will be dire). Still, viewers will side with Boris. It would be dangerous for Remain if it goes ahead.

    Of course Conservative MPs would be watching closely to see if either man could make their case to the country.

    It would certainly be a mighty big leadership hustings. You'd have to hope even Boris might prepare for that one!

    But there could still be huge numbers of undecideds, 48 hours out. Imagine the impact if Osborne does come across as all smirky and evasive, and Boris nails the Churchillian rhetoric?
    Given that is their default positions, not sure why remain would risk it. I know many remainers say things like 'leave need to explain this or that option' but I'm not so sure. Vague rhetoric about freedom might be enough in a contest where many people want to believe well thrive outside the stifling presence of the eu, and hold no love for the eu, and technical arguments from remainers coukd cone across as petty.

    I'm not convinced that it is the case such vagueness will be enough, but emotive appeal seems more effective than getting into a statistics fight or the like.
    Well, I'm not sure what impact Osborne has on this but it would seem like something Remain should be testing in focus groups. Sure, he's disliked, but the Chancellor warning that something threatens economic chaos (or whatever) is going to hit home with swing voters. If they think that effect overrides dislike for Osborne they might be happy to put him into this high profile setting.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    HYUFD said:

    ICM EU figures yesterday have England backing Leave 41% to 40% but the UK tied 41% to 41%.

    Tory voters back Remain 43% to 39% but 2015 Tory voters back Leave 37% to 44%

    If Tory voters are that split, then it looks like an unhappy situation moving forward - the dream of some antI Cameroons is this vote lances the eu boil and rids them of europhile leadership, but apparently a significant amount of supporters won't line that either.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    Trump is a bit of a buffoon at times, but at heart not that radical. Ted Cruz is much more purposeful, and I do not like his purpose! I cannot see him being a good friend of the UK.
    As stated the only place Cruz would be welcomed is Israel although he and Trump would be more likely to back the UK if it does Brexit than Hillary Clinton would
    Any American President will back the UK post-Brexit.

    They are excellent at dealing with the world as it is, not as they would like it to be.

    If it's in America's interests to be friends with an independent Britain they will be. Although, I would expect them to take full advantage of that to screw us in a free trade agreement ;)
    It is precisely on any free trade agreement the Europhile Hillary Clinton would more likely screw the UK if it voted to quit the EU than Trump or Cruz would
    Just about all the Republican candidates went on the record a couple of hours after the original scare story rubbishing it. HRC might be different, but I doubt it, what's in it for America.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Fraser Nelson
    13 years ago, Nissan said UK should join the Euro or it'd cut back in Sunderland. Today, more cars made in Sunderland than in all of Italy.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    Wanderer said:

    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    If that debate goes ahead then I would expect Osborne to exceed expectations (he'll take preparing for it very seriously, and the expectations will be dire). Still, viewers will side with Boris. It would be dangerous for Remain if it goes ahead.

    Of course Conservative MPs would be watching closely to see if either man could make their case to the country.

    It would certainly be a mighty big leadership hustings. You'd have to hope even Boris might prepare for that one!

    But there could still be huge numbers of undecideds, 48 hours out. Imagine the impact if Osborne does come across as all smirky and evasive, and Boris nails the Churchillian rhetoric?
    Given that is their default positions, not sure why remain would risk it. I know many remainers say things like 'leave need to explain this or that option' but I'm not so sure. Vague rhetoric about freedom might be enough in a contest where many people want to believe well thrive outside the stifling presence of the eu, and hold no love for the eu, and technical arguments from remainers coukd cone across as petty.

    I'm not convinced that it is the case such vagueness will be enough, but emotive appeal seems more effective than getting into a statistics fight or the like.
    Well, I'm not sure what impact Osborne has on this but it would seem like something Remain should be testing in focus groups. Sure, he's disliked, but the Chancellor warning that something threatens economic chaos (or whatever) is going to hit home with swing voters. If they think that effect overrides dislike for Osborne they might be happy to put him into this high profile setting.
    All I know is I live in the Tory shires and have even heard good words said about Gordon brown, but not Osborne. But who else could do it in fairness?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,788
    Nick Herbert writes to IDS:

    Dear Iain,

    You have today said that if Britain were to leave the EU “we won't copy any other country's deal. We will have a settlement on our own terms”.

    It is now time for you to come clean with the British public about what these terms are and the implications they will have for our economic security and working people’s livelihoods. That means answering the following questions:


    https://www.facebook.com/ConservativesIn/posts/198340663862235
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sophie on Sky called it choreographed.
    kjohnw said:

    its funny how the calais story has gone from france contradicting cameron:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12147334/France-contradicts-Cameron-over-Calais-migrant-camps.html on the 8th february to now france bulldozing camps and now saying it will let the migrants cross the channel without checks: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35712463
    seems like pressure has been put on france to create fear by london

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    If that debate goes ahead then I would expect Osborne to exceed expectations (he'll take preparing for it very seriously, and the expectations will be dire). Still, viewers will side with Boris. It would be dangerous for Remain if it goes ahead.

    Of course Conservative MPs would be watching closely to see if either man could make their case to the country.

    It would certainly be a mighty big leadership hustings. You'd have to hope even Boris might prepare for that one!

    But there could still be huge numbers of undecideds, 48 hours out. Imagine the impact if Osborne does come across as all smirky and evasive, and Boris nails the Churchillian rhetoric?
    Given that is their default positions, not sure why remain would risk it. I know many remainers say things like 'leave need to explain this or that option' but I'm not so sure. Vague rhetoric about freedom might be enough in a contest where many people want to believe well thrive outside the stifling presence of the eu, and hold no love for the eu, and technical arguments from remainers coukd cone across as petty.

    I'm not convinced that it is the case such vagueness will be enough, but emotive appeal seems more effective than getting into a statistics fight or the like.
    Well, I'm not sure what impact Osborne has on this but it would seem like something Remain should be testing in focus groups. Sure, he's disliked, but the Chancellor warning that something threatens economic chaos (or whatever) is going to hit home with swing voters. If they think that effect overrides dislike for Osborne they might be happy to put him into this high profile setting.
    All I know is I live in the Tory shires and have even heard good words said about Gordon brown, but not Osborne. But who else could do it in fairness?
    There must be dozens. We are continually remained that the intellectual firepower is all lined up behind Remain, with only people who do Sudoku puzzles for Leave....
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    Trump is a bit of a buffoon at times, but at heart not that radical. Ted Cruz is much more purposeful, and I do not like his purpose! I cannot see him being a good friend of the UK.
    As stated the only place Cruz would be welcomed is Israel although he and Trump would be more likely to back the UK if it does Brexit than Hillary Clinton would
    Any American President will back the UK post-Brexit.

    They are excellent at dealing with the world as it is, not as they would like it to be.

    If it's in America's interests to be friends with an independent Britain they will be. Although, I would expect them to take full advantage of that to screw us in a free trade agreement ;)
    It is precisely on any free trade agreement the Europhile Hillary Clinton would more likely screw the UK if it voted to quit the EU than Trump or Cruz would
    No, they all will. American Presidents are very good at optimising the outcome for their country. Political calculation doesn't come into something like this (which would be waved through Congress on the nod)
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536

    And here's another one from the Grauniad - Toyota this time

    'The head of one of the world's biggest car companies reignited the debate over the single currency yesterday with a warning for the government that its £1.5bn investment in the UK would be at risk if Britain stayed out of the euro.'

    'Toyota managers said yesterday that its UK operations, including a new £200m plant at Burnaston, Derbyshire, would be at risk '

    "We told him that if the present situation continues, then at the very least it will be impossible to expand our operations in the UK. If there is no change in the long term, then we will have to decide whether even our existing operations should continue."


    All sound very familiar?
    Looks like the Remain team have been digging through Danny Alexander's old notes


    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/jan/18/emu.theeuro
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited March 2016
    Errr
    In a speech to the British Chambers of Commerce, the Labour leader will say his own party's "light-touch" approach to financial regulation led to the banking collapse in 2007 and 2008 which nearly bankrupted the UK.

    Mr Corbyn will say that a Labour government under his leadership would "reform the major banks so that they serve the economy not just themselves".

    - See more at: https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/story/jeremy-corbyn-attacks-new-labour-over-financial-crash
  • Options
    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Nick Herbert writes to IDS:

    Dear Iain,

    You have today said that if Britain were to leave the EU “we won't copy any other country's deal. We will have a settlement on our own terms”.

    It is now time for you to come clean with the British public about what these terms are and the implications they will have for our economic security and working people’s livelihoods. That means answering the following questions:


    https://www.facebook.com/ConservativesIn/posts/198340663862235

    If only there was a recent example of a prominent member of the Remain campaign refusing to spell out his precise negotiating terms before heading into discussions of a "new settlement" with our European counterparts.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    Trump is a bit of a buffoon at times, but at heart not that radical. Ted Cruz is much more purposeful, and I do not like his purpose! I cannot see him being a good friend of the UK.
    As stated the only place Cruz would be welcomed is Israel although he and Trump would be more likely to back the UK if it does Brexit than Hillary Clinton would
    Any American President will back the UK post-Brexit.

    They are excellent at dealing with the world as it is, not as they would like it to be.

    If it's in America's interests to be friends with an independent Britain they will be. Although, I would expect them to take full advantage of that to screw us in a free trade agreement ;)
    It is precisely on any free trade agreement the Europhile Hillary Clinton would more likely screw the UK if it voted to quit the EU than Trump or Cruz would
    Just about all the Republican candidates went on the record a couple of hours after the original scare story rubbishing it. HRC might be different, but I doubt it, what's in it for America.
    You're misreading my post. America will take advantage of our need for a deal to get great terms, but we will get a deal
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Pong said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Indeed ;)

    Do you think ST changed anything?

    Trump still value for POTUS?
    No. Super Tuesday just reinforced the narrative.

    It's Clinton v Trump in November with Clinton emerging the winner. The scale of her win being dependent on whether elements of the GOP decide to run a spoiler against him, well knowing it will be cataclysmic for Trump and down ticket races.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Good morning, everyone.

    I'll believe that debate when I see it.

    The campaign seems to be between two wings of the Conservative Party, while Labour are off with the fairies fantasising about nuclear disarmament.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    runnymede said:


    And here's another one from the Grauniad - Toyota this time

    This would be the same Toyota that said:

    It is time to state very clearly to the British Public that we want Britain to join the single currency

    mind you it wasn't as embarrassing as what their competitor said:

    Why do you want to take a currency risk with the pound if you have the possibility of being risk-free in the Euro

    #WrongThenWrongNow
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I haven't noticed Labour at all in weeks.

    We get the occasional comedy moment, but that's it.

    Good morning, everyone.

    I'll believe that debate when I see it.

    The campaign seems to be between two wings of the Conservative Party, while Labour are off with the fairies fantasising about nuclear disarmament.

  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Charles said:

    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    Trump is a bit of a buffoon at times, but at heart not that radical. Ted Cruz is much more purposeful, and I do not like his purpose! I cannot see him being a good friend of the UK.
    As stated the only place Cruz would be welcomed is Israel although he and Trump would be more likely to back the UK if it does Brexit than Hillary Clinton would
    Any American President will back the UK post-Brexit.

    They are excellent at dealing with the world as it is, not as they would like it to be.

    If it's in America's interests to be friends with an independent Britain they will be. Although, I would expect them to take full advantage of that to screw us in a free trade agreement ;)
    It is precisely on any free trade agreement the Europhile Hillary Clinton would more likely screw the UK if it voted to quit the EU than Trump or Cruz would
    Just about all the Republican candidates went on the record a couple of hours after the original scare story rubbishing it. HRC might be different, but I doubt it, what's in it for America.
    You're misreading my post. America will take advantage of our need for a deal to get great terms, but we will get a deal
    No, I agree with you, I disagree with HYUFD suggesting that HRC would be Europhile enough to try and screw the UK. She won't, there isn't anything it it for her, or for America.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    One for chart lovers

    Paul Kirkby
    The world's greatest meat-eaters.

    @OECD chart https://t.co/Aeqxhpqyfk
  • Options

    I haven't noticed Labour at all in weeks.

    We get the occasional comedy moment, but that's it.

    Good morning, everyone.

    I'll believe that debate when I see it.

    The campaign seems to be between two wings of the Conservative Party, while Labour are off with the fairies fantasising about nuclear disarmament.

    Labour has realised that power erodes principles, and it is the latter which causes people to join the Party. It wants no more Blairs.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    Trump is a bit of a buffoon at times, but at heart not that radical. Ted Cruz is much more purposeful, and I do not like his purpose! I cannot see him being a good friend of the UK.
    As stated the only place Cruz would be welcomed is Israel although he and Trump would be more likely to back the UK if it does Brexit than Hillary Clinton would
    Any American President will back the UK post-Brexit.

    They are excellent at dealing with the world as it is, not as they would like it to be.

    If it's in America's interests to be friends with an independent Britain they will be. Although, I would expect them to take full advantage of that to screw us in a free trade agreement ;)
    It is precisely on any free trade agreement the Europhile Hillary Clinton would more likely screw the UK if it voted to quit the EU than Trump or Cruz would
    No, they all will. American Presidents are very good at optimising the outcome for their country. Political calculation doesn't come into something like this (which would be waved through Congress on the nod)
    Trump and Cruz have been much more pro UK Brexit when asked while Clinton is resolutely pro EU and would shift the U.S. axis more towards the EU accordingly
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,983

    Wanderer said:

    If that debate goes ahead then I would expect Osborne to exceed expectations (he'll take preparing for it very seriously, and the expectations will be dire). Still, viewers will side with Boris. It would be dangerous for Remain if it goes ahead.

    Of course Conservative MPs would be watching closely to see if either man could make their case to the country.

    It would certainly be a mighty big leadership hustings. You'd have to hope even Boris might prepare for that one!

    But there could still be huge numbers of undecideds, 48 hours out. Imagine the impact if Osborne does come across as all smirky and evasive, and Boris nails the Churchillian rhetoric?
    Hopefully, Boris would come over like Cicero denouncing Cataline.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    Good morning, everyone.

    I'll believe that debate when I see it.

    The campaign seems to be between two wings of the Conservative Party, while Labour are off with the fairies fantasising about nuclear disarmament.

    Labour having failed to turn up for the football match, the Tories are having their own 5-a-side game.....
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    I haven't noticed Labour at all in weeks.

    We get the occasional comedy moment, but that's it.

    Good morning, everyone.

    I'll believe that debate when I see it.

    The campaign seems to be between two wings of the Conservative Party, while Labour are off with the fairies fantasising about nuclear disarmament.

    Labour has realised that power erodes principles, and it is the latter which causes people to join the Party. It wants no more Blairs.

    To what end ? Without power they are a talking shop.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    ICM EU figures yesterday have England backing Leave 41% to 40% but the UK tied 41% to 41%.

    Tory voters back Remain 43% to 39% but 2015 Tory voters back Leave 37% to 44%

    If Tory voters are that split, then it looks like an unhappy situation moving forward - the dream of some antI Cameroons is this vote lances the eu boil and rids them of europhile leadership, but apparently a significant amount of supporters won't line that either.
    Yes present Tory voters are clearly more pro EU than Tory voters 15 years ago some of whom have gone to UKIP while some present Tory voters voted for Blair
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,602
    edited March 2016

    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT Cameron's scriptwriters have raised their game recently. I just heard him describe Corbyn's economic policy follwing the appointment of financial avisor Yanis Varoufakis the Greek held responsible for leaving their economy in ruins as 'Acropolis Now'.

    Mind you the material has got a lot better

    Roger, as a regular of pb.com, you will have read the Acropolis Now gag times aplenty. As, it appears, have the PM's speechwriters.

    *waves*
    No I hadn't. So Dave owes you one?
    It seems to have a pretty long career as a pun http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0122333/
    If only there were a close advisor to the PM who might have been in Australia between 1989 and 1992, we might have someone in the frame for that pun...
    I regular use the Acropolis Now pun in PB headers.

    Last year there were an awful lot of/a lot of awful Hellenic puns in my PB thread headers

    Some of my faves

    1) Turning the Greek Euro crisis into a Drachma

    2) The Greeks have lost their marbles

    3) Like a bat out of Hellas

    4) Greece is going to be the centaur of attention
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    And meanwhile the supposed head of the Remain campaign confirms that mass EU immigration drives down wages and that and EU exit would raise pay. And that this mass immigration is a 'cost' of EU membership.

    Not quite so well choreographed, that one


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12181385/Wages-for-British-workers-will-rise-in-the-event-of-a-Brexit-head-of-in-campaign-says.html
  • Options
    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT Cameron's scriptwriters have raised their game recently. I just heard him describe Corbyn's economic policy follwing the appointment of financial avisor Yanis Varoufakis the Greek held responsible for leaving their economy in ruins as 'Acropolis Now'.

    Mind you the material has got a lot better

    Roger, as a regular of pb.com, you will have read the Acropolis Now gag times aplenty. As, it appears, have the PM's speechwriters.

    *waves*
    No I hadn't. So Dave owes you one?
    It seems to have a pretty long career as a pun http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0122333/
    If only there were a close advisor to the PM who might have been in Australia between 1989 and 1992, we might have someone in the frame for that pun...
    I regular use the Acropolis Now pun in PB headers.

    Last there were an awful lot of/a lot of awful Hellenic puns in my PB thread headers

    Some of my faves

    1) Turning the Greek Euro crisis into a Drachma

    2) The Greeks have lost their marbles

    3) Like a bat out of Hellas

    4) Greece is going to be the centaur of attention
    surely "...awful Hellenic puns in my Greek columns"?
  • Options
    Indigo said:

    I haven't noticed Labour at all in weeks.

    We get the occasional comedy moment, but that's it.

    Good morning, everyone.

    I'll believe that debate when I see it.

    The campaign seems to be between two wings of the Conservative Party, while Labour are off with the fairies fantasising about nuclear disarmament.

    Labour has realised that power erodes principles, and it is the latter which causes people to join the Party. It wants no more Blairs.

    To what end ? Without power they are a talking shop.
    And with it they can't live with themselves. Why do you think I haven't once wanted to rejoin these last 25 years?

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,430
    Polruan said:

    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT Cameron's scriptwriters have raised their game recently. I just heard him describe Corbyn's economic policy follwing the appointment of financial avisor Yanis Varoufakis the Greek held responsible for leaving their economy in ruins as 'Acropolis Now'.

    Mind you the material has got a lot better

    Roger, as a regular of pb.com, you will have read the Acropolis Now gag times aplenty. As, it appears, have the PM's speechwriters.

    *waves*
    No I hadn't. So Dave owes you one?
    It seems to have a pretty long career as a pun http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0122333/
    If only there were a close advisor to the PM who might have been in Australia between 1989 and 1992, we might have someone in the frame for that pun...
    I regular use the Acropolis Now pun in PB headers.

    Last there were an awful lot of/a lot of awful Hellenic puns in my PB thread headers

    Some of my faves

    1) Turning the Greek Euro crisis into a Drachma

    2) The Greeks have lost their marbles

    3) Like a bat out of Hellas

    4) Greece is going to be the centaur of attention
    surely "...awful Hellenic puns in my Greek columns"?
    Highly ionic.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,983
    runnymede said:

    And meanwhile the supposed head of the Remain campaign confirms that mass EU immigration drives down wages and that and EU exit would raise pay. And that this mass immigration is a 'cost' of EU membership.

    Not quite so well choreographed, that one


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12181385/Wages-for-British-workers-will-rise-in-the-event-of-a-Brexit-head-of-in-campaign-says.html

    I think he was making the point that wage rises are a bad thing, which is probably true from his point of view, but perhaps not from the point of view of the average voter.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    runnymede said:


    And here's another one from the Grauniad - Toyota this time

    'The head of one of the world's biggest car companies reignited the debate over the single currency yesterday with a warning for the government that its £1.5bn investment in the UK would be at risk if Britain stayed out of the euro.'

    'Toyota managers said yesterday that its UK operations, including a new £200m plant at Burnaston, Derbyshire, would be at risk '

    "We told him that if the present situation continues, then at the very least it will be impossible to expand our operations in the UK. If there is no change in the long term, then we will have to decide whether even our existing operations should continue."


    All sound very familiar?
    Looks like the Remain team have been digging through Danny Alexander's old notes


    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/jan/18/emu.theeuro

    So you believe that there is no risk whatsoever? Can you explain why?
  • Options
    Polruan said:

    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT Cameron's scriptwriters have raised their game recently. I just heard him describe Corbyn's economic policy follwing the appointment of financial avisor Yanis Varoufakis the Greek held responsible for leaving their economy in ruins as 'Acropolis Now'.

    Mind you the material has got a lot better

    Roger, as a regular of pb.com, you will have read the Acropolis Now gag times aplenty. As, it appears, have the PM's speechwriters.

    *waves*
    No I hadn't. So Dave owes you one?
    It seems to have a pretty long career as a pun http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0122333/
    If only there were a close advisor to the PM who might have been in Australia between 1989 and 1992, we might have someone in the frame for that pun...
    I regular use the Acropolis Now pun in PB headers.

    Last there were an awful lot of/a lot of awful Hellenic puns in my PB thread headers

    Some of my faves

    1) Turning the Greek Euro crisis into a Drachma

    2) The Greeks have lost their marbles

    3) Like a bat out of Hellas

    4) Greece is going to be the centaur of attention
    surely "...awful Hellenic puns in my Greek columns"?
    Excellent. I also compared Greece's relationship with the Euro as the most disastrous relationship in that part of the world since Helen eloped with Paris.
  • Options
    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Good morning, everyone.

    I'll believe that debate when I see it.

    The campaign seems to be between two wings of the Conservative Party, while Labour are off with the fairies fantasising about nuclear disarmament.

    Labour having failed to turn up for the football match, the Tories are having their own 5-a-side game.....
    At least this suggests they've learned from IndyRef and aren't going to take the same hit in popularity doing Cameron's dirty work this time round.

    The only way Labour get any space in the newscycle between here and June is either by participating in the EU debate which is a lose-lose activity, or through stories of noisy policy divisions, which obviously don't help. The best thing they can do is pursue a dull-but-worthy policy announcement/government critique job which will get little coverage but will enable them to point to track record of speaking on issues when we get back to normal politics later this year.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'I think he was making the point that wage rises are a bad thing, which is probably true from his point of view, but perhaps not from the point of view of the average voter.'

    Indeed he was. I can't see that line playing awfully well with the large fraction of the voters who have seen very slow, if any, real pay growth this last several years. Unlike people such as 'Lord' Rose of course.
  • Options
    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Polruan said:

    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT Cameron's scriptwriters have raised their game recently. I just heard him describe Corbyn's economic policy follwing the appointment of financial avisor Yanis Varoufakis the Greek held responsible for leaving their economy in ruins as 'Acropolis Now'.

    Mind you the material has got a lot better

    Roger, as a regular of pb.com, you will have read the Acropolis Now gag times aplenty. As, it appears, have the PM's speechwriters.

    *waves*
    No I hadn't. So Dave owes you one?
    It seems to have a pretty long career as a pun http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0122333/
    If only there were a close advisor to the PM who might have been in Australia between 1989 and 1992, we might have someone in the frame for that pun...
    I regular use the Acropolis Now pun in PB headers.

    Last there were an awful lot of/a lot of awful Hellenic puns in my PB thread headers

    Some of my faves

    1) Turning the Greek Euro crisis into a Drachma

    2) The Greeks have lost their marbles

    3) Like a bat out of Hellas

    4) Greece is going to be the centaur of attention
    surely "...awful Hellenic puns in my Greek columns"?
    Excellent. I also compared Greece's relationship with the Euro as the most disastrous relationship in that part of the world since Helen eloped with Paris.
    I'd have had a lot more respect for Cameron if he'd gone on to describe Corbyn as "the face that launched a thousand splits"
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    GeoffM said:

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Why is it scary? I'd definitely be voting Cruz if I lived in the USA.
    Trump is a bit of a buffoon at times, but at heart not that radical. Ted Cruz is much more purposeful, and I do not like his purpose! I cannot see him being a good friend of the UK.
    As stated the only place Cruz would be welcomed is Israel although he and Trump would be more likely to back the UK if it does Brexit than Hillary Clinton would
    Any American President will back the UK post-Brexit.

    They are excellent at dealing with the world as it is, not as they would like it to be.

    If it's in America's interests to be friends with an independent Britain they will be. Although, I would expect them to take full advantage of that to screw us in a free trade agreement ;)
    It is precisely on any free trade agreement the Europhile Hillary Clinton would more likely screw the UK if it voted to quit the EU than Trump or Cruz would
    No, they all will. American Presidents are very good at optimising the outcome for their country. Political calculation doesn't come into something like this (which would be waved through Congress on the nod)
    Trump and Cruz have been much more pro UK Brexit when asked while Clinton is resolutely pro EU and would shift the U.S. axis more towards the EU accordingly
    So? Doesn't change my point: we are and will remain one of the US's closest and most significant friends and allies
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Good Morning PBers Worldwide .... especially neurotic Bhutan travelling scribblers.

    A whole day to get suitable comestibles at the ready for the GOP debate tonight.

    Popcorn shares - Buy Buy Buy !!

    Rubio will hold out until he loses Florida, but I can see that Cruz wants to keep going. President Cruz is a scarier thing than President Trump.
    Probably. Conventional wisdom would indicate that Rubio pulls out after losing his home state of Florida. However there's little conventional about the GOP race this year and the establishment may want him to hang in for grim death in the faint hope of a brokered convention, which would lead to Trump standing as the spoiler against the lame duck GOP candidate.

    The infighting is staggering and the factional positioning hilarious at times. We have Christie prostrating himself before Trump and Romney speaking later today about the horrors of the hair apparent. Meanwhile GOP Congressman Dold of Illinois (11th) disavows Trump at every turn.

    There's no way out for the GOP. They've effectively handed POTUS to Clinton. Will they ever learn? certainly not in this cycle.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,430
    This will cheer those PBers with substantial money on Trump as POTUS:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/clinton-vs-trump-is-not-the-race-hillary-would-have-chosen-a6907906.html

    Personally, I am now backing Hillary in hope of recovering losses on Rubio and Bush. I guess I'm an establishment sort of guy.
This discussion has been closed.