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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Announcing the Politicalbetting Prize EU referendum competi

SystemSystem Posts: 12,267
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Announcing the Politicalbetting Prize EU referendum competition

Using the bespoke NoJam template you will need to enter the LEAVE and turnout pecentage down to decimal points The prize will go to the person with the smallest overall error..

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    First!!

  • Second, like LEAVE......

    FPT:

    Roger lands 80/1 winner at The Oscars!

    In his predictions a couple of days ago, Roger favoured The Revenant to win the award for Best Visual Effects, on offer at 16/1, adding tellingly "but Ex Machina is an interesting longshot", which was on offer from Bet365 at 80/1 .... that's EIGHTY TO ONE folks and in sorting out some sort of value the value from the obvious and ridiculously short-priced favourites, yours truly suggested backing both of these at such crazy prices.
    Guess what ....... the 80/1 shot duly came in.
    Congratulations to Roger, what a corker of a bet!

    ANOTHER ONE! Mark Rylance was Roger's favourite for Best Supporting Actor - which he thought might end up going to Stallone, Home Team & all that - but Rylance has won - deservedly so
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,417
    edited February 2016

    Second, like REMAIN......

  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited February 2016
    Yes, I was on that one too, thanks to Roger.

    Methinks that thanks are also due to Wm. Hill for their generous support in sponsoring this latest competition. They appear to have stolen something of a march over PB.com's erstwhile lead sponsor from among the mightiest *cough* of the bookmaking fraternity.

    I forgive them for ridiculously scaling back my attempted placing of a £5 bet a couple of days ago on Osborne ceasing to be Chancellor during calendar 2017. It really makes you wonder how long their board meetings must last, when transactions of this magnitude appear to exercise their collective corporate mind so.
  • Second, like REMAIN......

    Well, it'll be one or the other.......
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited February 2016
    As Mike "Porky" Parry of talkSPORT is known to say ....... vote early and vote often.
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    http://tinyurl.com/zl2lekl

    One of the euRefs known unknowns..
  • Oscars -- let me add my thanks to Roger for the 80/1 Ex Machina and 11/4 Mark Rylance winners.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2016
    shiney2 said:

    http://tinyurl.com/zl2lekl

    One of the euRefs known unknowns..

    Indeed. As I observed last week when Cameron came home with his small bit of tinsel. June is going to be way too late, the TV is going to be full of pictures of overflowing camps and masses of angry young men throwing rocks and pushing down fences for at least three months before then. He would be better off leaving the referendum until November and hope something else has happen on the news to divert attention after the fuss has died down for the winter.
  • So how many other people on here know one of this year's Oscar winners?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    So how many other people on here know one of this year's Oscar winners?

    Just woken up. None. Haven't watched the news yet.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited February 2016

    So how many other people on here know one of this year's Oscar winners?

    Bravo! I read your post and I thought Ex Machina was a really excellent film and a very worthy winner. If you meet your chum congratulations

    I think I got 16 out of 20 which I'm very pleased with because only 4 in my opinion were certainties. Of the 4 I got wrong 3 were very worthy and a toss up with my choices. I wasn't such a fan of the best film 'Spotlight' but I think it was thought to be worthy which didn't really come into my considerations
  • Roger said:

    So how many other people on here know one of this year's Oscar winners?

    Bravo! I read your post and I thought Ex Machina was a really excellent film and a very worthy winner. If you meet your chum congratulations

    I think I got 16 out of 20 which I'm very pleased with because only 4 in my opinion were certainties. Of the 4 I got wrong 3 were very worthy and a toss up with my choices. I wasn't such a fan of the best film 'Spotlight' but I think it was thought to be worthy which didn't really come into my considerations

    You've had a stormer - congratulations!

    In addition to Ex Machina, I was really pleased about Mark Rylance. He was superb.

  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    A thought has occurred to me, the EU is trying to stop people entering from outside, if proponents of Leave suggest we stop people trying to enter the UK they're branded racist by EU supporters.

    Can't work that one out.
  • For sheer, unadulterated hypocrisy, this article is going to take some beating during the referendum campaign ...
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/29/eu-business-scotland-vote-stay-uk-economic-arguments
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    Congratulations Roger. Shall have to try and watch Ex Machina. I must say I thought Spotlight was excellent; unlike the Big Short one could follow the Why at the beginning. And it had a proper ending.
    And Alicia Vikander struck just the right note in The Danish Girl.
  • Morning all.

    Thanks to OGH and William Hill for the latest prediction contest. Best of luck to all.

    [update] - Congratulations to Roger on his formidable success wrt last night’s Oscars.
  • Roger said:

    So how many other people on here know one of this year's Oscar winners?

    Bravo! I read your post and I thought Ex Machina was a really excellent film and a very worthy winner. If you meet your chum congratulations

    I think I got 16 out of 20 which I'm very pleased with because only 4 in my opinion were certainties. Of the 4 I got wrong 3 were very worthy and a toss up with my choices. I wasn't such a fan of the best film 'Spotlight' but I think it was thought to be worthy which didn't really come into my considerations
    Well done Roger.
  • A thought has occurred to me, the EU is trying to stop people entering from outside, if proponents of Leave suggest we stop people trying to enter the UK they're branded racist by EU supporters.

    Can't work that one out.

    Let me help you. It is, of course, racist to try to keep anyone out of anywhere.

    To be a white Anglophone is to possess not one but two unmerited privileges. White Anglophones who claim to believe in race equality have little or no understanding of what it would entail. Planet Earth could not possibly cope with all humanity having a European lifestyle - for two or three generations, at least, after which the birth rate would probably drop to replacement levels. After all, people only have large families because (i) death in childhood is commonplace or (ii) children are the only form of old age pension.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Congratulations Roger. Shall have to try and watch Ex Machina. I must say I thought Spotlight was excellent; unlike the Big Short one could follow the Why at the beginning. And it had a proper ending.
    And Alicia Vikander struck just the right note in The Danish Girl.

    Roger said:

    So how many other people on here know one of this year's Oscar winners?

    Bravo! I read your post and I thought Ex Machina was a really excellent film and a very worthy winner. If you meet your chum congratulations

    I think I got 16 out of 20 which I'm very pleased with because only 4 in my opinion were certainties. Of the 4 I got wrong 3 were very worthy and a toss up with my choices. I wasn't such a fan of the best film 'Spotlight' but I think it was thought to be worthy which didn't really come into my considerations
    Well done roger!

    I did get on Ex machina, for a quid, and a few of the other winners.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited February 2016

    Congratulations Roger. Shall have to try and watch Ex Machina. I must say I thought Spotlight was excellent; unlike the Big Short one could follow the Why at the beginning. And it had a proper ending.
    And Alicia Vikander struck just the right note in The Danish Girl.

    Thank you and I agree. I did very much like 'Spotlight'. As you say a very well told story I just wondered whether it was as good as 'All the Presidents Men' which is still memorable all these years later with it's wonderful shadowy character 'Deep Throat'
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    edited February 2016

    A thought has occurred to me, the EU is trying to stop people entering from outside, if proponents of Leave suggest we stop people trying to enter the UK they're branded racist by EU supporters.

    Can't work that one out.

    Let me help you. It is, of course, racist to try to keep anyone out of anywhere.

    To be a white Anglophone is to possess not one but two unmerited privileges. White Anglophones who claim to believe in race equality have little or no understanding of what it would entail. Planet Earth could not possibly cope with all humanity having a European lifestyle - for two or three generations, at least, after which the birth rate would probably drop to replacement levels. After all, people only have large families because (i) death in childhood is commonplace or (ii) children are the only form of old age pension.

    Well done for missing the point, I suspect deliberately.

    What on earth is an Anglophone?

    Your first line about racist is as ridiculous as it gets.
  • Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.
  • A thought has occurred to me, the EU is trying to stop people entering from outside, if proponents of Leave suggest we stop people trying to enter the UK they're branded racist by EU supporters.

    Can't work that one out.

    Let me help you. It is, of course, racist to try to keep anyone out of anywhere.

    To be a white Anglophone is to possess not one but two unmerited privileges. White Anglophones who claim to believe in race equality have little or no understanding of what it would entail. Planet Earth could not possibly cope with all humanity having a European lifestyle - for two or three generations, at least, after which the birth rate would probably drop to replacement levels. After all, people only have large families because (i) death in childhood is commonplace or (ii) children are the only form of old age pension.

    Well done for missing the point, I suspect deliberately.

    What on earth is an Anglophone?

    Your first line about racist is as ridiculous as it gets.
    About the response I expected from you. Anglophone means "English speaker", or "native-born English speaker" (I think the second usage more useful than the first, but that's taste).

  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062

    Congratulations Roger. Shall have to try and watch Ex Machina. I must say I thought Spotlight was excellent; unlike the Big Short one could follow the Why at the beginning. And it had a proper ending.
    And Alicia Vikander struck just the right note in The Danish Girl.

    Roger said:

    So how many other people on here know one of this year's Oscar winners?

    Bravo! I read your post and I thought Ex Machina was a really excellent film and a very worthy winner. If you meet your chum congratulations

    I think I got 16 out of 20 which I'm very pleased with because only 4 in my opinion were certainties. Of the 4 I got wrong 3 were very worthy and a toss up with my choices. I wasn't such a fan of the best film 'Spotlight' but I think it was thought to be worthy which didn't really come into my considerations
    Well done roger!

    I did get on Ex machina, for a quid, and a few of the other winners.
    Well done! That should pay for a new stethoscope
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    A thought has occurred to me, the EU is trying to stop people entering from outside, if proponents of Leave suggest we stop people trying to enter the UK they're branded racist by EU supporters.

    Can't work that one out.

    Let me help you. It is, of course, racist to try to keep anyone out of anywhere.

    To be a white Anglophone is to possess not one but two unmerited privileges. White Anglophones who claim to believe in race equality have little or no understanding of what it would entail. Planet Earth could not possibly cope with all humanity having a European lifestyle - for two or three generations, at least, after which the birth rate would probably drop to replacement levels. After all, people only have large families because (i) death in childhood is commonplace or (ii) children are the only form of old age pension.

    Well done for missing the point, I suspect deliberately.

    What on earth is an Anglophone?

    Your first line about racist is as ridiculous as it gets.
    About the response I expected from you. Anglophone means "English speaker", or "native-born English speaker" (I think the second usage more useful than the first, but that's taste).

    I was referring to the EU trying to limit migrants from the East, but it seems we're all Anglophones now.

    Look, some people want to manage migration into the UK, you cry racist, yet the EU tries to manage migration and you support it.

    Bit muddled up aren't you.

  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.

    UKIP replacing the Tories in 2020 ?

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249
    Congratulations to Roger. An excellent result to bring in so many toss ups.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    Roger said:

    So how many other people on here know one of this year's Oscar winners?

    Bravo! I read your post and I thought Ex Machina was a really excellent film and a very worthy winner. If you meet your chum congratulations

    I think I got 16 out of 20 which I'm very pleased with because only 4 in my opinion were certainties. Of the 4 I got wrong 3 were very worthy and a toss up with my choices. I wasn't such a fan of the best film 'Spotlight' but I think it was thought to be worthy which didn't really come into my considerations
    Well done Roger. As I feared, Sandy Powell lost out by having a split vote on two entries in Costume. Delighted Ex Machina won - couldn't see past the Star Wars money machine getting rewarded, but great job Andrew Whitehurst.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited February 2016
    Good morning all.

    Profound thanks to Roger and PfP for the 80/1 on Ex Machina. A good start to the day!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Meanwhile, these people shouldn't be let out on their own...

    @PolhomeEditor: Fiona Hyslop says the UK Government is "marching us towards the exit door of the EU" ... by recommending we stay in the EU. #r4today
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270

    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.

    UKIP replacing the Tories in 2020 ?

    Part of the recriminations will be against the UKIP egotistical dickheads who split the LEAVE voice into a discordant wailing.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Bwahaha

    Brexit ‘could leave UK with blackouts and gas shortages’ http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/utilities/article4701374.ece
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    edited February 2016
    Mitt Romney into 200 / 300 next pres and 55 / 100 Rep nom on Betfair.

    Probably related to this:

    http://www.infowars.com/breaking-insider-leaks-koch-bros-rubio-plan-to-stop-trump/

    Totally ludicrous, but...

    Anyhow glad I covered up at an equivalent 1088-1.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Part of the recriminations will be against the UKIP egotistical dickheads who split the LEAVE voice into a discordant wailing.

    This doesn't help

    @PaulBrandITV: Lord Howard tells @GMB he still thinks there could be 2nd EU ref: "If we vote to leave there's a chance they may come back with a 2nd deal"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    Roger said:

    Congratulations Roger. Shall have to try and watch Ex Machina. I must say I thought Spotlight was excellent; unlike the Big Short one could follow the Why at the beginning. And it had a proper ending.
    And Alicia Vikander struck just the right note in The Danish Girl.

    Thank you and I agree. I did very much like 'Spotlight'. As you say a very well told story I just wondered whether it was as good as 'All the Presidents Men' which is still memorable all these years later with it's wonderful shadowy character 'Deep Throat'
    Spotlight is the more IMPORTANT movie. And Oscar likes IMPORTANT movies. The Revenant looked great - but was too long and in ten years time, I suspect as a movie will be little more than a footnote in Oscar history. The Academy chose right.
  • A thought has occurred to me, the EU is trying to stop people entering from outside, if proponents of Leave suggest we stop people trying to enter the UK they're branded racist by EU supporters.

    Can't work that one out.

    Let me help you. It is, of course, racist to try to keep anyone out of anywhere.

    To be a white Anglophone is to possess not one but two unmerited privileges. White Anglophones who claim to believe in race equality have little or no understanding of what it would entail. Planet Earth could not possibly cope with all humanity having a European lifestyle - for two or three generations, at least, after which the birth rate would probably drop to replacement levels. After all, people only have large families because (i) death in childhood is commonplace or (ii) children are the only form of old age pension.

    Well done for missing the point, I suspect deliberately.

    What on earth is an Anglophone?

    Your first line about racist is as ridiculous as it gets.
    About the response I expected from you. Anglophone means "English speaker", or "native-born English speaker" (I think the second usage more useful than the first, but that's taste).

    I was referring to the EU trying to limit migrants from the East, but it seems we're all Anglophones now.

    Look, some people want to manage migration into the UK, you cry racist, yet the EU tries to manage migration and you support it.

    Bit muddled up aren't you.

    If so, I am far from alone. There are plenty of people whose head says one thing, whose heart says the opposite. It is in such cases that elected politicians dodge the bullet and hold referenda.



  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Roger Bootle head of Capital Economics comes out for leave

    He rightly sums up the Remain case with 'If you believe this guff, you will believe anything'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/02/28/euro-twaddle-or-tolstoy-you-choose-your-poisson/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    Scott_P said:

    Part of the recriminations will be against the UKIP egotistical dickheads who split the LEAVE voice into a discordant wailing.

    This doesn't help

    @PaulBrandITV: Lord Howard tells @GMB he still thinks there could be 2nd EU ref: "If we vote to leave there's a chance they may come back with a 2nd deal"
    And of course, he's right. History tells us that is EXACTLY what the Eurocrats and senior EU national leaders would do.

    And all those now advocating Remain, they wouldn't accept the result. They'd be shouting "Hang on, don't do anything hasty, let's hear what they have to say..."
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    And of course, he's right. History tells us that is EXACTLY what the Eurocrats and senior EU national leaders would do.

    No, it isn't.

    Historically, only one country has voted to leave, and they didn't get a 2nd vote
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.

    UKIP replacing the Tories in 2020 ?

    No. Much more likely is a eurosceptic revolt within the Tory party. Difficult to see a REMAINIAN becoming leader after Cameron, for example. Which rules out a lot of candidates.

    The details of Cameron's referendum plans - from that Sunday Times piece - are quite eye-opening. Apparently he expected no serious opposition in the party, to his deal. He was "amazed" that as many as six Cabinet Ministers broke ranks. He is "hurt and furious" at the reaction.

    I mean, WTF.

    The only conclusion is that Cameron's "euroscepticism" was a charade all along, or at least so insubstantial as to be meaningless - and emphasised merely for political expediency. He therefore presumed that all other Tories were the same as him, pretending to be eurosceptic to please the press and electors.

    Hence his total surprise when he realises that many Tories REALLY MEAN IT. They are sincere and principled eurosceptics.

    Essentially, Cameron is a smug, vacuous pragmatist, with a streak of self-regarding nastiness - and this campaign has fatally exposed these flaws.
    He's an Old Etonian, Sean. It's what they do.

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    So how many other people on here know one of this year's Oscar winners?

    Sarah B and the rest of the team from Milk, for VFX. Great to see them win alongside the giants of DNeg.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Scott_P said:

    And of course, he's right. History tells us that is EXACTLY what the Eurocrats and senior EU national leaders would do.

    No, it isn't.

    Historically, only one country has voted to leave, and they didn't get a 2nd vote
    Quite - the comparisons are silly. The reason for 2nd referendums in the past was that the rejection of one country meant that the others couldn't proceed. Because treaty change had to be unanimous. So they made some changes and asked them to vote again. Brexit does not prevent the rest from doing anything, in fact some would probably secretly welcome it for making their lives easier.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    He's an Old Etonian, Sean. It's what they do.

    So's Boris
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    edited February 2016
    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.
    Is this another case of the lesser-spotted (on PB; it's common on CiF) phenomenon of only "we" being able to understand the nuances of the debate, while everyone else is a project Fear victim?

    Give over.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Reportedly preventing his own ministers accessing EU documents to do their own jobs has really irked me.

    It's totally unjustifiable. The Times are also reporting that ministers aren't being told of work commissioned from their own officials. And their staff asked to report directly back to Number 10.

    This is way beyond supporting the official HMG line.
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.

    UKIP replacing the Tories in 2020 ?

    No. Much more likely is a eurosceptic revolt within the Tory party. Difficult to see a REMAINIAN becoming leader after Cameron, for example. Which rules out a lot of candidates.

    The details of Cameron's referendum plans - from that Sunday Times piece - are quite eye-opening. Apparently he expected no serious opposition in the party, to his deal. He was "amazed" that as many as six Cabinet Ministers broke ranks. He is "hurt and furious" at the reaction.

    I mean, WTF.

    The only conclusion is that Cameron's "euroscepticism" was a charade all along, or at least so insubstantial as to be meaningless - and emphasised merely for political expediency. He therefore presumed that all other Tories were the same as him, pretending to be eurosceptic to please the press and electors.

    Hence his total surprise when he realises that many Tories REALLY MEAN IT. They are sincere and principled eurosceptics.

    Essentially, Cameron is a smug, vacuous pragmatist, with a streak of self-regarding nastiness - and this campaign has fatally exposed these flaws.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Historically, only one country has voted to leave, and they didn't get a 2nd vote

    Although the EU is still hoping to get Greenland back in at some point...greedily eyeing Arctic resources.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TOPPING said:

    Is this another case of the lesser-spotted (on PB; it's common on CiF) phenomenon of only "we" being able to understand the nuances of the debate, while everyone else is a project Fear victim?

    Give over.

    More likely another instance of SeanT predicting every possible post referendum outcome between now and the vote, allowing him to claim afterwards he was right again, however fleetingly
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    As far as I can see, it appears that a lot of people who want to leave the EU are working themselves up into a fury because Cameron hasn't delivered a 'deal' that makes it harder for them to argue that we should leave the EU?! And are complaining that he didn't take Lynton Crosby's advice on how best to go about securing a "remain" vote?!
  • SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    He's an Old Etonian, Sean. It's what they do.

    So's Boris
    Boris didn't go on national TV and tell an enormous historical lie about achieving "great reform in the EU". That's where Cameron exposed himself. He will never entirely recover.
    Plenty of non-politically engaged people believe him.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Boris didn't go on national TV and tell an enormous historical lie about achieving "great reform in the EU"

    Indeed. It's the 45 minutes claim all over again.

    But it's not just him - a whole swathe of Tory cabinet ministers are telling whopping outright lies every day.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,865
    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.
    If we give in to the 'bullying' we'll deserve what we get. There's enough big hitters on the leave side and enough distaste for the eu that while the anger will be on Cameron and thevtories will be spitting blood at each other, it won't excuse the public if we lose.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    He will never entirely recover.

    In the same way he never entirely recovered from "appearing at Leveson" or "hiring Andy Coulson"...
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is this another case of the lesser-spotted (on PB; it's common on CiF) phenomenon of only "we" being able to understand the nuances of the debate, while everyone else is a project Fear victim?

    Give over.

    More likely another instance of SeanT predicting every possible post referendum outcome between now and the vote, allowing him to claim afterwards he was right again, however fleetingly
    He also hasn't decided whether he is for "Remain" or "Leave" yet. So perhaps he's a bit annoyed that he senses that he will fall victim to "Project Fear" himself...
  • SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.
    Indeed, I really want to tell them to get a backbone and that they're being taken for fools and will live to regret their decision (without actually saying that, of course, which might damage our friendship)

    Suggestions?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    SeanT said:


    Indeed. Effectively he's doing a Flashman routine on the entire country. We are all being held to the fire. He'll get his come-uppance in time.

    Which is why Boris should worry Remain so much. Boris can wade in and call out Cameron on the Flashman routine. Nobody likes a bully, even at Eton, he can say - with authority. And Britain is being bullied. Because Remain has no positive message. Vote Remain, or we'll flush your head down the bogs.

    And this is nothing to do with internal Tory politics. It's to do with all those Labour voters. You really think they want to vote alongside Cameron? You really think they want to admit they are being bullied into voting to Remain by Cameron? The Labour vote is key to this Referendum. If he can peel them away from Remain - Leave wins. Simple as. And Cameron has spent the past month giving Boris all the ammunition he needs.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    alex. said:

    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is this another case of the lesser-spotted (on PB; it's common on CiF) phenomenon of only "we" being able to understand the nuances of the debate, while everyone else is a project Fear victim?

    Give over.

    More likely another instance of SeanT predicting every possible post referendum outcome between now and the vote, allowing him to claim afterwards he was right again, however fleetingly
    He also hasn't decided whether he is for "Remain" or "Leave" yet. So perhaps he's a bit annoyed that he senses that he will fall victim to "Project Fear" himself...
    Be gentle. How do you expect a normal member of the public such as @SeanT to be able to discern truth from fear?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is this another case of the lesser-spotted (on PB; it's common on CiF) phenomenon of only "we" being able to understand the nuances of the debate, while everyone else is a project Fear victim?

    Give over.

    More likely another instance of SeanT predicting every possible post referendum outcome between now and the vote, allowing him to claim afterwards he was right again, however fleetingly
    Er, I've been predicting a REMAIN victory by roughly 56:44 for several weeks (long before anyone else). I haven't budged, and I stand by that prediction.

    Funnily enough it's turned out to be the PB consensus, according to this poll.
    Long before the "deal" as well, presumably.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    kle4 said:

    There's enough big hitters on the leave side

    Nigel Farage. Widely detested and derided.

    George Galloway. Widely detested and derided by the people who don't hate Farage
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,865
    edited February 2016
    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    He will never entirely recover.

    In the same way he never entirely recovered from "appearing at Leveson" or "hiring Andy Coulson"...
    Not the same thing at all. This is on an issue that has obsessed the party for decades, and which clearly many will not acceot what he has done or is perceived to have done. Your other examples are political froth by comparison.

    How can he last until anywhere close to 2020 when so many of his own MPs think he failed and is either lying to the public or is an idiot, the implication of what us being said, particularly when many think he is being unfair?
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    Bwahaha

    Brexit ‘could leave UK with blackouts and gas shortages’ http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/utilities/article4701374.ece

    that's been forecast ever since we signed up to the EU commission on climate change and Labour didn't start commissioning replacement power stations to replace the ones being phased out.

    So basically if we REMAIN in Europe we are far more likely to get blackouts (brownouts).
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    Greetings from sunny Ireland

    The centenary year of the Easter Rising and the country can't form a government.
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited February 2016

    SeanT said:


    Indeed. Effectively he's doing a Flashman routine on the entire country. We are all being held to the fire. He'll get his come-uppance in time.

    Which is why Boris should worry Remain so much. Boris can wade in and call out Cameron on the Flashman routine. Nobody likes a bully, even at Eton, he can say - with authority. And Britain is being bullied. Because Remain has no positive message. Vote Remain, or we'll flush your head down the bogs.

    And this is nothing to do with internal Tory politics. It's to do with all those Labour voters. You really think they want to vote alongside Cameron? You really think they want to admit they are being bullied into voting to Remain by Cameron? The Labour vote is key to this Referendum. If he can peel them away from Remain - Leave wins. Simple as. And Cameron has spent the past month giving Boris all the ammunition he needs.
    Yes indeed, as soon as Boris opens his mouth, all those Labour voters will stop listening to their TUs and their own Party leadership and perform enormous salaams to His Borisness.

    Or perhaps not.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    Scott_P said:

    kle4 said:

    There's enough big hitters on the leave side

    Nigel Farage. Widely detested and derided.

    George Galloway. Widely detested and derided by the people who don't hate Farage
    Time for a lie down Scott
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,865
    Scott_P said:

    kle4 said:

    There's enough big hitters on the leave side

    Nigel Farage. Widely detested and derided.

    George Galloway. Widely detested and derided by the people who don't hate Farage
    Gove and Johnson. The term is relative.

    Besides which, the point was that this not an issue the political class and elites are united upon, even if 'the establishment' is mostly for remain. I media and elsewhere leave has the voice it needs to counter anything thrown at it. It will be disappointing if it fails to do so, but not inevitable, hence on us if it does not.

  • TOPPING said:

    alex. said:

    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    Is this another case of the lesser-spotted (on PB; it's common on CiF) phenomenon of only "we" being able to understand the nuances of the debate, while everyone else is a project Fear victim?

    Give over.

    More likely another instance of SeanT predicting every possible post referendum outcome between now and the vote, allowing him to claim afterwards he was right again, however fleetingly
    He also hasn't decided whether he is for "Remain" or "Leave" yet. So perhaps he's a bit annoyed that he senses that he will fall victim to "Project Fear" himself...
    Be gentle. How do you expect a normal member of the public such as @SeanT to be able to discern truth from fear?
    Miss Tremayne has always been somewhat prone to fits of the vapours. - Sad, but true.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.
    Is this another case of the lesser-spotted (on PB; it's common on CiF) phenomenon of only "we" being able to understand the nuances of the debate, while everyone else is a project Fear victim?

    Give over.
    No. I'm a project fear victim. I readily admit it. Some of these dire predictions are making me haver.

    I know that most of the REMAINIAN propaganda is total bullshit. I now know that Cameron is a cockroach and a liar. I despise the europhiles and their horrible fat faces.

    Yet I am a father and part of me is thinking, what if just one of these lying predictions is actually true, can I take that risk for my daughter?

    It's a natural human reaction. And if I'm thinking it, many others must be thinking it, too.



    Really call yourself and Englishman.

    God gave you two fingers and the expression Fuck em for a reason
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,865
    I actually really dislike the idea we are being bullied by any side. We're being given a hard sell, calling it bullying is making ourselves victims.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270

    SeanT said:


    Indeed. Effectively he's doing a Flashman routine on the entire country. We are all being held to the fire. He'll get his come-uppance in time.

    Which is why Boris should worry Remain so much. Boris can wade in and call out Cameron on the Flashman routine. Nobody likes a bully, even at Eton, he can say - with authority. And Britain is being bullied. Because Remain has no positive message. Vote Remain, or we'll flush your head down the bogs.

    And this is nothing to do with internal Tory politics. It's to do with all those Labour voters. You really think they want to vote alongside Cameron? You really think they want to admit they are being bullied into voting to Remain by Cameron? The Labour vote is key to this Referendum. If he can peel them away from Remain - Leave wins. Simple as. And Cameron has spent the past month giving Boris all the ammunition he needs.
    Yes indeed, as soon as Boris opens his mouth, all those Labour voters will stop listening to their TUs and their own Party leadership[ and perform enormous salaams to His Borisness.

    Or perhaps not.

    People on the Left still listen to Boris, in a way they won't to Farage. And Boris can express that deeply unpleasant taste they have in their mouth, of lining up behind Cameron, doing his bidding....

    And the centrists in the Labour Party don't hear anything from their Party leader.
  • SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.
    Is this another case of the lesser-spotted (on PB; it's common on CiF) phenomenon of only "we" being able to understand the nuances of the debate, while everyone else is a project Fear victim?

    Give over.
    No. I'm a project fear victim. I readily admit it. Some of these dire predictions are making me haver.

    I know that most of the REMAINIAN propaganda is total bullshit. I now know that Cameron is a cockroach and a liar. I despise the europhiles and their horrible fat faces.

    Yet I am a father and part of me is thinking, what if just one of these lying predictions is actually true, can I take that risk for my daughter?

    It's a natural human reaction. And if I'm thinking it, many others must be thinking it, too.



    Really call yourself and Englishman.

    God gave you two fingers and the expression Fuck em for a reason
    If indeed it was God who did that.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    edited February 2016
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    The truth is probably that Cameron is a victim of Project Fear as much as anyone else.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,865
    SeanT said:

    One thing we can now safely say about referendums on sovereignty is that they are intensely divisive, and embittering, and leave bad blood on the carpet long after they are concluded.

    It happened in Scotland, and it is now clearly happening in British political circles. From the Tory party all the way down to PB.

    Indeed, most dispiriting, and we've barely got going. It's going to be rough.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    kle4 said:

    I actually really dislike the idea we are being bullied by any side. We're being given a hard sell, calling it bullying is making ourselves victims.

    Bullying is an abuse of power. What else can you call it when the Prime Minister abuses his position of office to tell the people he has won a great victory in our relationship with the EU, when objectively he has no basis to make that claim? And then tells the electorate that the Leave camp would take your first born?
  • SeanT said:


    Indeed. Effectively he's doing a Flashman routine on the entire country. We are all being held to the fire. He'll get his come-uppance in time.

    Which is why Boris should worry Remain so much. Boris can wade in and call out Cameron on the Flashman routine. Nobody likes a bully, even at Eton, he can say - with authority. And Britain is being bullied. Because Remain has no positive message. Vote Remain, or we'll flush your head down the bogs.

    And this is nothing to do with internal Tory politics. It's to do with all those Labour voters. You really think they want to vote alongside Cameron? You really think they want to admit they are being bullied into voting to Remain by Cameron? The Labour vote is key to this Referendum. If he can peel them away from Remain - Leave wins. Simple as. And Cameron has spent the past month giving Boris all the ammunition he needs.
    It will be an interesting insight into the moral fibre and character of the present day British people to see if they give into such bullying.

    As Andrew Roberts says yesterday, our ancestors wouldn't give tuppence for any of this nonsense.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    One thing we can now safely say about referendums on sovereignty is that they are intensely divisive, and embittering, and leave bad blood on the carpet long after they are concluded.

    It happened in Scotland, and it is now clearly happening in British political circles. From the Tory party all the way down to PB.

    The Outers do seem very fractious

    I suspect that is because they are finding out, like the Nats, that if you want to win a referendum you need a coherent argument.

    You can huff and puff about about freedom and Nationality (Call yourself an Englishman!) but if you want ticks in boxes you need a rational reason to vote that way

    And the Outers haven't got it, or anyone who can articulate it, or even agree what it might look like
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896

    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.
    Is this another case of the lesser-spotted (on PB; it's common on CiF) phenomenon of only "we" being able to understand the nuances of the debate, while everyone else is a project Fear victim?

    Give over.
    No. I'm a project fear victim. I readily admit it. Some of these dire predictions are making me haver.

    I know that most of the REMAINIAN propaganda is total bullshit. I now know that Cameron is a cockroach and a liar. I despise the europhiles and their horrible fat faces.

    Yet I am a father and part of me is thinking, what if just one of these lying predictions is actually true, can I take that risk for my daughter?

    It's a natural human reaction. And if I'm thinking it, many others must be thinking it, too.



    Really call yourself and Englishman.

    God gave you two fingers and the expression Fuck em for a reason
    If indeed it was God who did that.

    I thought many of the archers at Agincourt were in fact Welsh
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,628
    edited February 2016
    Morning all!

    Well done to Roger for the Oscars tips, a few winners in there.

    Just watched this, John Oliver's 20 minute takedown of Trump from last night, now trending second behind the Oscars. His audience is mostly liberals who would never vote for the guy, but we all know Trump will respond to it in the only way he knows how!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.
    Is this another case of the lesser-spotted (on PB; it's common on CiF) phenomenon of only "we" being able to understand the nuances of the debate, while everyone else is a project Fear victim?

    Give over.
    No. I'm a project fear victim. I readily admit it. Some of these dire predictions are making me haver.

    I know that most of the REMAINIAN propaganda is total bullshit. I now know that Cameron is a cockroach and a liar. I despise the europhiles and their horrible fat faces.

    Yet I am a father and part of me is thinking, what if just one of these lying predictions is actually true, can I take that risk for my daughter?

    It's a natural human reaction. And if I'm thinking it, many others must be thinking it, too.



    Really call yourself and Englishman.

    God gave you two fingers and the expression Fuck em for a reason
    I know, I know.

    On the other hand, at least I am honest. Which cannot be said for most of the scuttling, europhile insect life on here, from Scott P to Nabavi to Meeks.
    I've been lurking for most of the last few days.

    I have to admit the Europhiles have been highly amusing in the drivel they've pumped out. I think they're scaring themselves as much as anything else.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.
    Indeed, I really want to tell them to get a backbone and that they're being taken for fools and will live to regret their decision (without actually saying that, of course, which might damage our friendship)

    Suggestions?
    Convince them that they are being played
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    Sandpit said:

    Morning all!

    Well done to Roger for the Oscars tips, a few winners in there.

    Just watched this, John Oliver's 20 minute takedown of Trump from last night, now trending second behind the Oscars. His audience is mostly liberals who would never vote for the guy, but we all know Trump will respond to it in the only way he knows how!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ

    Sadly says “Not available in your country"
  • In years to come, old men will whisper in awed voices of the unparalleled skill and beauty of the Barcelona football team of our generation. In the same way, they will speak in hushed tones of the incompetence of the Leave campaign of 2016.

    The unpreparedness of the Leave side is extraordinary. To demand a referendum, to get years' notice that one was on the way and then to have no answers to obvious lines of attack denotes political ineptitude of a different order of magnitude from that we have seen before from an entire political movement.

    Make your prediction competition estimates accordingly.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    On the other hand, at least I am honest. Which cannot be said for most of the scuttling, europhile insect life on here, from Scott P to Nabavi to Meeks.

    I already said, I want both sides to lose
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    Merkel still being Leave's best recruiting sergeant:

    "speaking on Germany's ARD television, Mrs Merkel said she had no "Plan B" and would not change course, rejecting a proposed limit on migration."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35684093
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249
    In my opinion Cameron has no great love for the EU. It makes running this country more difficult and many of its policies run counter to the Tory beliefs of how you get an economy moving.

    Where he has misjudged matters is thinking that whilst many in the party share that irritation they must surely realise that it is the only game in town. I think he really thought that pretty much all of his colleagues would come to that conclusion, no matter how irritating they find it and he has been caught out by the depth of feeling.

    His attempt to claim he had "fixed" the problems with his deal was embarrassing and he rapidly and deftly took steps back from that. It is a footnote in the remain case now and a fairly embarrassing one at that. But his judgement is that we should remain and anyone who thinks that will not be a major factor, quite probably the decisive factor, in this referendum is deluding himself.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    To demand a referendum, to get years' notice that one was on the way and then to have no answers to obvious lines of attack denotes political ineptitude of a different order of magnitude from that we have seen before from an entire political movement.

    Well, we have seen it at least once before...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @LadPolitics: Oscars betting news: Well done to anyone who backed Ex Machina for Best Visual Effects: a 50/1 winner!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Greetings from sunny Ireland

    The centenary year of the Easter Rising and the country can't form a government.

    This was much more important, but get less hagiographies

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curragh_incident
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    edited February 2016
    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.
    Is this another case of the lesser-spotted (on PB; it's common on CiF) phenomenon of only "we" being able to understand the nuances of the debate, while everyone else is a project Fear victim?

    Give over.
    No. I'm a project fear victim. I readily admit it. Some of these dire predictions are making me haver.

    I know that most of the REMAINIAN propaganda is total bullshit. I now know that Cameron is a cockroach and a liar. I despise the europhiles and their horrible fat faces.

    Yet I am a father and part of me is thinking, what if just one of these lying predictions is actually true, can I take that risk for my daughter?

    It's a natural human reaction. And if I'm thinking it, many others must be thinking it, too.



    I think people are looking for black and white whereas there are perhapses on both sides.

    People scream for facts but there are precious few. It doesn't mean either side is lying. Politicians will of course take advantage and "actively speculate". Just reading the negotiated text is a huge step forward for understanding. Or a good précis (there are hundreds).

    After that it is a gut feel
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    On the other hand, at least I am honest. Which cannot be said for most of the scuttling, europhile insect life on here, from Scott P to Nabavi to Meeks.

    I already said, I want both sides to lose
    and yet you campaign for only one

    its not what you say its what you do
  • Scott_P said:

    To demand a referendum, to get years' notice that one was on the way and then to have no answers to obvious lines of attack denotes political ineptitude of a different order of magnitude from that we have seen before from an entire political movement.

    Well, we have seen it at least once before...
    If you're referring to the Scottish independence movement, I disagree. The SNP were coherent. Their problem was plausibility. Leave does not get as far as coherence.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    and yet you campaign for only one

    its not what you say its what you do

    I am not campaigning for either.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,628
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    He will never entirely recover.

    In the same way he never entirely recovered from "appearing at Leveson" or "hiring Andy Coulson"...
    Not the same thing at all. This is on an issue that has obsessed the party for decades, and which clearly many will not acceot what he has done or is perceived to have done. Your other examples are political froth by comparison.

    How can he last until anywhere close to 2020 when so many of his own MPs think he failed and is either lying to the public or is an idiot, the implication of what us being said, particularly when many think he is being unfair?
    If the result is anything but a very clear Remain, the PM is going to be hanged by his own party.

    When Boris' column in the DT calling the PM's tactics Project Fear made the headlines 3,500 miles away this morning, the trust for the PM even from senior members of his own party has very quickly broken down.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/12177006/Dont-be-taken-in-by-Project-Fear-staying-in-the-EU-is-the-risky-choice.html
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    Pulpstar said:
    Doesn’t look as though it’s going to end any time soo, either, does it. Althrough presumably Haughey will get up to the quota this time.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249
    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Project Fear appears to be working.

    I heard from two friends last night, both life-long eurosceptics, who are now "on the fence". One is a partner in a law firm, the other an international security risk consultant.

    A third, who's voted UKIP in the past, was going to vote Leave, but has changed his mind off the back of Cameron's deal. He works as a senior statistician in a major pharmaceutical company.

    All are AB professionals, all graduates, all homeowners, and all live in the south-east.

    I am following up with each of them, but Leave really should have all their votes in the bag.

    Agreed. It's clearly working. In effect the British people are being bullied, if not terrorised, into voting REMAIN, by the elite. It's an odious spectacle. As I've said before, post-referendum the emotional backlash - and the recriminations in the Tory party - will be intense. The europhiles will get their victory, but they will be made to suffer afterwards, as happened in Scotland.
    Is this another case of the lesser-spotted (on PB; it's common on CiF) phenomenon of only "we" being able to understand the nuances of the debate, while everyone else is a project Fear victim?

    Give over.
    No. I'm a project fear victim. I readily admit it. Some of these dire predictions are making me haver.

    I know that most of the REMAINIAN propaganda is total bullshit. I now know that Cameron is a cockroach and a liar. I despise the europhiles and their horrible fat faces.

    Yet I am a father and part of me is thinking, what if just one of these lying predictions is actually true, can I take that risk for my daughter?

    It's a natural human reaction. And if I'm thinking it, many others must be thinking it, too.



    I think people are looking for black and white whereas there are perhapses on both sides.

    People scream for facts but there are precious few. It doesn't mean either side is lying. Just reading the negotiated text is a huge step forward for understanding. Or a good précis (there are hundreds).

    After that it is a gut feel
    I agree. This is fundamentally a judgement call about possible futures, neither of which are certain. We are dealing in probabilities and risk assessment, not facts. But the less clear an option is the higher the apparent risk. This is mainly Leave's problem.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    Charles said:

    Greetings from sunny Ireland

    The centenary year of the Easter Rising and the country can't form a government.

    This was much more important, but get less hagiographies

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curragh_incident
    I waiting to see which one of your relations was involved :-)
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    SeanT said:


    Indeed. Effectively he's doing a Flashman routine on the entire country. We are all being held to the fire. He'll get his come-uppance in time.

    Which is why Boris should worry Remain so much. Boris can wade in and call out Cameron on the Flashman routine. Nobody likes a bully, even at Eton, he can say - with authority. And Britain is being bullied. Because Remain has no positive message. Vote Remain, or we'll flush your head down the bogs.

    And this is nothing to do with internal Tory politics. It's to do with all those Labour voters. You really think they want to vote alongside Cameron? You really think they want to admit they are being bullied into voting to Remain by Cameron? The Labour vote is key to this Referendum. If he can peel them away from Remain - Leave wins. Simple as. And Cameron has spent the past month giving Boris all the ammunition he needs.
    It will be an interesting insight into the moral fibre and character of the present day British people to see if they give into such bullying.

    As Andrew Roberts says yesterday, our ancestors wouldn't give tuppence for any of this nonsense.
    Hang on a minute. The vast majority of polls since long before this "campaign" started showed that Remain were likely to win. It is arrogant of supporters of "Leave" to assume that if they lose it will be as a result of "bullying" when ultimately just represent a confirmation of the previously assuming views of the electorate. It is ironic that so many of the leavers are in the Conservative party when it is conservatism that is likely to be the key reason for Remain winning.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    Scott_P said:

    and yet you campaign for only one

    its not what you say its what you do

    I am not campaigning for either.
    you missed the innocent face bit
This discussion has been closed.